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I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...
Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.
As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry
I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...
I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.
fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?
Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?
vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.
The following article is not even remotely related to E4GT (or Samsung for that matter) but I found it very interesting... There's a strong possibility of Intel dominating all mobile processors starting 2014 - 2015 ...
http://liliputing.com/2012/04/intel-pushes-atom-chip-for-android-devices.html
EDIT: I just noticed that the website (or maybe the user) removed the second post that I copied below.
You can skip the actual article, but read the comments (from user CyberGusa) :
While as for what advantages Intel can start to offer, it's what Chippy from UMPCPortal would call High Dynamic Range Computing (HDRC). Unlike ARM, Intel is fully capable of scaling from the mobile range to the full desktop range.
This will be especially true if Windows 8 is successful, as x86 can offer legacy support where ARM can't, and can provide the higher range performance that ARM is still many years away from being able to provide as their high end next gen offerings will only rival the present gen Intel ATOMs.
MS in particular is patenting a way to easily switch between CPU's when docking. So could make a Windows system literally scale from mobile to laptop and even desktop by just docking it.
The closest ARM based devices will get to this scaling is switching from a ARM to higher end Intel or AMD chip when docked but this will also involve switching from a mobile OS to a desktop one to fully take advantage of the switch.
Though Google is making progress towards making Android a more desktop friendly OS, like with Webtop and similar UI optimizations that take over when docked that would allow Android to take advantage of such scaling but would still be more limited than switching to a true desktop OS that isn't designed with the limits that a mobile OS will have to deal with no matter how the UI is altered and optimized,
Failure of Windows 8 though could well give ARM the advantage.
Intel though is hedging its bets with support for Android and of course the Tizen project. They already bought a company last year that provides them the option to easily switch between two OS instantly, without rebooting.
While they are compensating for what advantages ARM has over them by keeping ahead of the manufacturing shrink curve by at least a year.
So while ARM is heading towards 32 and 28nm productions, Intel is heading toward 22nm and that combined with the architectural updates could potentially start giving Intel the edge.
Mind also that there have been problems with the 28nm production and Intel has strategically not helped ARM with this issue. So time table for many gives them limited time for market penetration before Intel will be able to come out with their own 22nm chips and 14nm is scheduled for 2014.
Also consider that it's not the general consumer market at stake here but also the embedded and server markets, which could give Intel more of a advantage considering that x86 hardware can run pretty much any OS but ARM is still limited to OS already optimized for it.
While ARM is also depending on Windows 8 being a success to provide it a mainstream desktop OS to provide the ability to start competing in the traditional PC markets, and thus would also be negatively effected if Windows 8 fails.
So while ARM is looking good for the rest of this year, it remains to be seen if that will remain true next year and Intel should never be underestimated.
More comments from the same user (CyberGusa):
Right now Intel only has dual core in their higher end ATOM lineup and up to 8 cores for the server market, neither of which are competing with ARM yet.
The upcoming dual core Medfield is mainly just planned for the Tablet market and shouldn't effect the Smart Phone market.
So the main advantage of ARM solutions right now is that they're much more mainstream for the mobile market, with Intel only beginning to compete for the first time. Much like how Nvidia when they first introduced the Tegra and shows slow beginnings are not indicative of how they will do in a year or two.
While as already mentioned the Intel ATOM's are still using pretty much the same architecture as when it was first introduced to the market in 2008. This is like comparing the Cortex A15 to the older Cortex A8 based ARM chips and having the Cortex A8 solution still holds its own.
So having it even come in the same ball park is actually a testament to how much ARM still has to catch up for the higher performance range they're only now entering.
Mind beating the ATOM isn't really hard, as that's the bottom of Intel's chip offerings, with the Core i-Series offering multiples times better performance that ARM is still years away from even getting close to.
While the next gen ATOM's coming out next year are Intel's equivalent of a A15 update to the ATOM. Introducing many of the technology they developed for Ivy Bridge to the ATOM.
Like Intel's Tri-Gate Transistors, a HD 4000 based GMA, putting the entire lineup under SoC, offering a wider range of processor configurations, finally adding Out Of Order Processing to the ATOM, among many other improvements.
While ARM manufacturers are having problems, the delay in moving to 28nm being the most outstanding right now, which is why many are still opting for 32nm. Especially those who have yet to deal with the increased problem of power leakage as they continue to shrink the FAB.
Even Apple is still on 45nm with their latest iPad and had to increase the battery size by 70% to compensate for the increased power consumption of the retina display and the quad core GPU's requires.
So they may up their game but it's going to get harder for them here on out as ARM was designed for low power and low performance and need time to evolve to be able to apply itself to higher end applications.
While Intel already dominates the higher end and just wants to start penetrating into the lower end and that's going to be arguably easier for them to do than for ARM to keep on increasing its performance.
Mind, ARM is still a 32bit architecture and only recently introduced designs for 64bit. This means they're still years away from going fully 64bit and for now we're only going to see enhancements like 64bit memory management.
While it's not easy to continue providing increasing performance and still keep costs and power consumption low. Also ARM customizations has the down side of increased hardware fragmentation.
So it's not like Intel doesn't stand a chance, it's just going to take awhile to see if they can really start competing in the mobile market or have to stay in the higher end PC market.
Comment as you see fit, and keep in mind these are just opinions, not facts !!!
First...
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Even if Intel is not on top by then they will make sure the bar is set high. Good read.
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Good read. If Intel is truly interested in advancing the mobile field, I can see them doing big things in the future. At the very least, the competition they bring to the market will keep everyone else on their toes.
Transmission sent from a Galaxy S II, CODENAME style.
intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer
Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.
Oh and Intel is known for making low battery consumption processors. Can't wait for that by them making small chips only nanometers big
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kc_exactly said:
Competition premotes innovation. I have read that the next few generations of processors are already developed but they only release one at a time to guarantee profits and to not outrun what they have. So, with more chips in competition this will help us see better processors faster. It will also lower cost. So, a phone might cost the same 4 years from now instead of more. I personally think it is a great idea. Even if there chips weren't much better they still will help. It is a win win for the consumer. Great article!
Sent from Team KC's founding member HTC Evo 4G LTE.
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In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !
peryp9 said:
In my personal opinion, I think Intel does make outstanding processors, but their marketing skills are not customer friendly. Take for example the numerous options for the speed of a processor they sell...
let's say the new processor X came out with speeds of 1.6 GHz, and then 3 months later, they come out with the same processor X but with improved speeds of 2.2 GHz at 40% increased cost... and after another 3 months they release the Black Edition processor X with the ultimate speed of 2.4 GHz at double and even triple the price of the original !!!
Do you honestly think they will redesign the production line just to make the new and improved Black Edition processor X ??? I don't think so... In my opinion, they're probably selling the exact same processor X from the beginning to the end, but they slow down the speed in the early versions and they gradually release to full potential ... In this way, they sell the same processor (which cuts down the design/engineering and production costs) yet they stay very profitable and ahead of the market curve by announcing an improved product every 3 months !!!
In other words, the same processor X will sell as follows:
1st release) Speed minus 40% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price
2nd release) Speed minus 30% (no overclock) ... "Regular" price + 15%
...................................................................................
...................................................................................
Black Edition) Speed and overclock unlocked ... "Regular" price + 300%
The worst thing they ever did (starting with Core processors, such as i3, i5...) was to incorporate the video card into the processor, and to lock out other video card vendors from the system ... In this way, they sell the processor AND the video card at the same time, and there's no more competition at the same time !!! They call this bull **** integration something like "system on a chip" for better power consumption ... WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE LOOKED FORWARD TO INSTALLING AND BENCHMARKING INTEL VIDEO CARDS IN THEIR COMPUTERS ??? Why do you think AMD bought ATI video card manufacturer ?
And you think it wouldn't get any worst ? Recently Intel started to sell their TOP OF THE LINE PROCESSORS without their video integrated cards ... That means that us, the consumers, have to PAY EXTRA FOR LESS PRODUCT just to get away from their marketing schemes !!!
In the end, we probably pay "regular" price when processor X is introduced, then it's all profits from there on for Intel.
Now back to cell phones ... think of the same scenario applied to your phone with Intel Inside ...
The above are just my personal opinions on Intel ... tell me if I'm wrong ! Say thanks if you believe I helped you open your eyes !
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Since when Intel has Black Edition CPU?
And about locking out other video card vendors from the system, are you sure you know what you talking about?
locoboi187 said:
intel will show other processor companies how its done. their technology is quality when compared to AMD. but AMD tries to be more innovative. in the end i went with expensive intel to build my computer
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Intel can school everyone else on microprocessor development, manufacturing, budget, evolution...but...x86 is known power hungry. I'm sure if they keep reducing their process (which they will) they can get x86 to match arm, energy consumption wise. But, on the same token, ARM will (WILL) get developed to a point where they will match x86 performance wise.
It's anybodies race. It's early (yes, very early) in the mobile computing game. Intel could very well pull through with it's very refined architecture....that's also regarded as crufty as fnck. The ARM architecture could very well also be refined to the point where they get as many operations per clock...both neck-and-neck on power efficiency.
All said, I'm both excited and doubtful in intel's ability. Microsoft is becoming irrelevant at an amazing speed...perhaps it's intel's turn as well. Wintel? Armdroid? A mix of the two?
Exciting times. Bring on the competition.
Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xeon server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. They did not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did, they wouldn't pounce like they did on amd... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..
lilotimz said:
Intel never had something called "black editions". They have processors known as "Extreme editions" which are the highest quality bin CPU's which did not get chosen for the Xenon's server cpus. These costs $999.
The next batch would be the second highest binned ones , which would costs ~$500. Then the next are the average ones which did passed all the tests but wasn't as high quality as the higher end models. These are the $200-300 ones.
The rest probably get thrown out.
Now the their integrated solution is a step foward in providing all in one solutions. Not locking out video card makers who make discrete chipsets which absolutely crushes the integrated HD 2000/3000's. What makes these integrated solutions so attractive is the fact the their intel sync (?) encoding and other stuff is literally mind blowing.
You probably don't even know what you're talking about... like seriously? BE's are AMD's.... video makers are mainly dedicated with PCI-e interfaces....
*Edit*
Intel innovates crazily when pushed heavily. AMD punished Intel for its pentium 4 and forced them either step up or be irrelevant and stepped up they did... conroe... nehalam... clarksfield...sandy bridge.. ivy bridge...
I have no reason to believe if Arm shoved into intel into a corner like AMD did... let's just say.. if history has taught us anything... I' would feel really bad for ARM due to intels insane budgets, R&D, and advanced chipmaking facilities..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intel Black Edition ... Intel Extreme Edition ... the idea was "top of the line". Look at the point I'm trying to make, not the wrong words I used.
Intel may claim that their integrated graphics are great for many thing, but look at the larger picture... pay premium dollar for the ability to use the video card of your choice !!
EDIT: The cheapest processor comes with integrated graphics, while the most expensive one comes without it. I remember when I bought my laptop a few years back (1st generation Intel i5). I was reading about Intel not allowing manufacturers to put other cards in order to bypass the integrated one. In the end, I bought this Intel i5 laptop with NVidia GeForce 325M with Optimus. Check to see how Optimus works with Intel's integrated card and you'll understand what I meant in my previous post.
In the end, the main point I'm trying to get across, is that Intel's products are great (except their video cards) but their marketing scheme will hurt the consumers if they take control of the mobile processor.
All the info by the commenter not withstanding, I have a hard time taking anyone who uses "effect" instead of "affect" seriously.
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iam getting a voucher from my university to purchase a laptop/tablet. only good tablet available is switch 10 or samsung note 10.1 2014. i was wondering which makes better sense to purchase an expensive android tablet or a slightly cheaper windows 8 tablet .
thanks
rkoforever90 said:
iam getting a voucher from my university to purchase a laptop/tablet. only good tablet available is switch 10 or samsung note 10.1 2014. i was wondering which makes better sense to purchase an expensive android tablet or a slightly cheaper windows 8 tablet .
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would get the Note 10 and setup a VM on laptop or desktop at home and remote desktop to it for when I absolutely need access to windows wares.
I find the Note 10 a better device for portable use most of the time so I can live with a remote desktop compromise for the odds times I really need windows.
If you need windows ALL THE TIME then you better go with windows 8 device.
I also have win8 tablet (Asus Vivotab ME400C) and Samsung Ativ 700T i5 convertible with pen.
The Note 10 has better screen, better battery and better pen than my other tablets.
It is also more portable and that's going to be important if you're lugging it around all day.
Also, using micro USB to charge is very convenient as I can use any phone charger if I need to, even tho it takes FOREVER!
Have you considered the HP elitepad 1000?
Windows 8.1 64 bit, active stylus, 1200p screen, slim and light.
If I didnt have my note 10.1 that would be the tab I would be looking at..... even giving serious thought to a switch at the moment, sometimes android's little limitations start to outweigh the wealth of available apps and useful features. Things like clunky file management, mobile browsers and web page rendering issues, quick edits of office products, lack of flash.....
patchseven said:
Have you considered the HP elitepad 1000?
Windows 8.1 64 bit, active stylus, 1200p screen, slim and light.
If I didnt have my note 10.1 that would be the tab I would be looking at..... even giving serious thought to a switch at the moment, sometimes android's little limitations start to outweigh the wealth of available apps and useful features. Things like clunky file management, mobile browsers and web page rendering issues, quick edits of office products, lack of flash.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bit that irks me about the HP Elitepad 1000 is the proprietary port. I don't feel like having another collection of bits.
They should have at least built in a full USB port so you could make do without the dock.
I do like the 4gb RAM tho, since the bay trail is really a 64bit quad core CPU.
Lack of GPS is a dissapointment.
patchseven said:
Have you considered the HP elitepad 1000?
Windows 8.1 64 bit, active stylus, 1200p screen, slim and light.
If I didnt have my note 10.1 that would be the tab I would be looking at..... even giving serious thought to a switch at the moment, sometimes android's little limitations start to outweigh the wealth of available apps and useful features. Things like clunky file management, mobile browsers and web page rendering issues, quick edits of office products, lack of flash.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not available in the website. http://www.studentstore.co.uk/getech/Acer/Acer_Aspire_Switch_10_Tablet_(NT-L47EK-002).aspx
Looking at the company HP itself I'd avoid it.
No surface available?
I'd pick the Note anyway
It looks like NVIDIA is going to release another 8 inch tablet. It will come with a stylus and looks like a spec powerhouse. Thoughts?
http://videocardz.com/51059/nvidia-extends-shield-family-shield-tablet-wireless-controller
Ah but it's not a phone like my GT-N5120.
Galaxy Note 8.0 Xposed Build N5120XXDNE4 / Baseband N5120XXCMG7 / Kernel SphereKat-Rev5.1 on Telstra LTE
Your comparing apples to oranges.
The Samsung Note 8.0 was not specifically built for gamers in mind. The Shield is very nice, and looks to be great for gamers. Though in everyday use I am sure the battery will not last as long, as most gaming devices are battery drainers.
If I were to get a gamers delight tablet. That would be on my list.
As for your question... the Note 8.0 is discontinued and nobody is going to look for a new one on ebay when you have a good selection of newer products.
I got the Note 8.0 as it fits my needs... at the time very few 8.0 tablets had the capabilities. Plus even though the screen is 800x1200 at 180dpi its clarity and color is as good as higher rated screens on other devices.
As my signature shows, the Note 8.0 abilities still provide well (did not include it is 128GB SD compatible), even if others may have higher specs, very few will see improvement unless it is games.
Most gamers have sony hand held consoles. I can't say I would want a tablet as handheld gaming console, they seem so limited to just Android only, unless you hack or pirate games.
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According to StatCounter, Android OS officially overtook Windows as the world’s most popular operating system in April, 2017. While Android’s dominance in the smartphone and tablet industries grows, its market share in the desktop PC world is still less than 1%. Jide Technology, a company which was founded by three ex-Google engineers in 2014, has been working on “unlocking the potential of Android and accelerating a new age of computing”, at least that’s what their slogan says. The key to that vision is the Remix OS, an Android-based operating system designed to work like a desktop OS.
Although Jide and its Remix OS have gained quite a number of fans with products such as the Ultra Tablet and Remix Mini, many are still confused about what kind of convenience the Remix OS can really bring to their daily life. While being the most versatile Android-based tablet, the Ultra Tablet is heavier and pricier than many more competent Core-M powered Windows convertibles. The Remix Mini is compact, affordable, but powered by a low-end SoC., the performance is somewhat disappointing.
The newly released Remix X1 is designed to replace the Remix Mini, a device that did not achieve the kind of market success Jide had strived for. Will the Remix X1 bring some game-changing features that will finally make it a hit? Or is it just a regular upgrade of its predecessor? I will try to answer these questions in this review.
Package
Inside the box you will find a Mini PC, a charger with three different plugs, a remote, and a pair of dry cells.
Design and Build
Compared to the Remix Mini, the X1 looks much more like a Mini PC. It is larger, heavier, offers more ports. For some, the X1 may be less aesthetically pleasing than the Mini because it has sharper edges and more abrupt lines.
There are a slew of ports and slots on the device. The left side plays host to two full USB 2.0 ports, while the right side hosts a VGA port.
On the back side you will find a charging port, an HDMI port, a MicroSD card slot, two full USB 2.0 ports as well as a 3.5mm audio jack. 4 USB outputs are definitely a nice improvement over the Mini’s 2, but unfortunately they are still USB 2.0 standard, and cannot deliver the USB 3.0 speed many of us are used to nowadays.
On the top side of the device you will find a Jide Logo and, finally, a physical power button. I have been a user of the Mini for more than a year now, and I was constantly driven mad by the invisible capacitive power button on it. It gives no feedback, the only way to know whether your touch gets registered is by looking at the screen.
Although the plastic shell does give the device a plasticky feel, the build quality is still good. It doesn’t have any ugly mold lines on its surface, and feels like it could survive some pressure and even occasional drops. Unlike the fanless design of the Remix Mini and other Android-based TV boxes, the X1 actually has a fan inside to control the temperature of the internals.
Setting it up
Like all PCs, the Remix X1 needs to be paired with a screen and input devices. You can connect the X1 with a monitor or an HDTV with a VGA or an HDMI cable, with a mouse and a keyboard in place and you are good to go.
The X1 will automatically boot itself when you plug the wall charger into a socket. Quite odd given that it already has a physical power button now. Jide claims that the auto-boot is a result of the settings of the Rockchip SoC. and is a shared by many other TV boxes running on Rockchip processors. Unlike the Mini, the X1 can support 4K resolution (3840*2160), and will offer better visuals on UHD displays.
Remix OS 3.0
At the heart of this X1 is Jide’s all new Remix OS. Just like we mentioned at the beginning of this article, the Remix OS is an Android-based operating system designed to work like a desktop OS. The version X1 ships with is the Remix 3.0, which is based on Android M (Android 6.0). Compared to the Android 5.1-based Remix 2.0, this is definitely an upgrade. However, it still lags behind the smartphone industry, as most phones are now running Android 7.0 Nougat.
For those who have never used or even heard of the Remix OS, it is definitely not your average Android experience. In fact, it looks so different that you cannot even relate it to Android until you run Android applications on it. The Remix OS 3.0 comes with 2 modes: PC mode and TV mode. In TV mode, you will get a TV BOX UI which works perfectly with the stock remote. In PC mode, you will get a UI that is designed to be worked with a mouse and a keyboard.
All apps installed from the TV Appstore will automatically show up on the TV mode UI. You can handily use the remote to open and control these applications. You can watch the latest videos on YouTube, or your favorite TV shows on Netflix and Hulu.
In PC mode, you will get a taskbar similar to the one on Windows 10. On the left side of the taskbar you will also get an icon to open the application drawer. All apps (except those exclusive to the TV mode) will show up in the app drawer and you can rank them by name, time of installation and usage. You can also click the search icon to search for the applications you have in mind.
Besides the icon of the application drawer are the three classic Android keys: Back, Home and Multi-tasking, you can use them to control the running applications. Clicking on “Back” and the OS will return to the last screen, clicking on “Home” and all running applications will be minimized (while the icons stay in the taskbar), clicking on multi-tasking and you will get the shortcuts for all running applications and the two modes which Remix OS 3.0 offers.
On the right side of the taskbar you will get many settings, including Memory-cleanup, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Input, Time and Date and Notification Center. The Memory-Cleanup shortcut will help you to close all applications running in the background (only the one app running on top will stay once you click the “Memory Cleanup” button).
The Notification Center looks like the one on Windows 10, all notifications and alerts will show up here, and applications normally shown in the pull-down menu of your smartphone UI will also be found here. Besides, you also get 5 icons, including DND mode, positioning switch, autohide the taskbar, Screenshot and Settings.
What really makes Remix OS special is its ability to run multiple apps in windows. You can browse through Emails, chat on Skype and watch a movie simultaneously. You will feel like you are using Windows 10 instead of Android.
Thanks to the keyboard shortcuts and right-click menus the Remix OS offers, the X1 feels much more productive than your average smartphones and tablets. You can copy texts from the webpages and instantly paste them into the input boxes of your Email app or social networking apps. All apps running in windows can be resized according to the user’s personal preferences.
The X1 is preinstalled with Kodi, which works as the media center. Not only does it take care of local media contents (browsing pics, playing music and videos), you can also enable add-ons to stream music and videos online.
Remix OS 3.0 also allows users to clone apps, you just need to enable it in the experimental features inside the settings. If you have multiple accounts on one social network, this feature will be extremely useful.
When it comes to real productivity tasks such as editing documents and photos, the X1 is still no match for its Windows counterparts. You can do some simple editing with applications such as WPS Office as well as Android versions of Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint, but it is by no means as efficient as working on a real PC. There are far fewer things that you can do as the Android versions of Office Suites only offer some of the basic functions, and performing the same task may take much more time on the X1 than on your average Windows PCs. I tried to edit my presentation with WPS Office on the X1 once, the awkwardness and low efficiency made me dying to switch to my desktop PC.
During my 1-month of reviewing the X1, I found that I was doing media-consuming most of the time, thanks to the countless music and video streaming apps Android offers. But I did occasionally post stuff on my social media accounts. Whenever I finished watching a movie, I instantly gave my rating on IMDB. Then I took a screenshot of the IMDB page and shared it on Facebook, Wechat and Twitter. The multi-windows function of the Remix OS makes it possible for me to update all social media accounts at the exact same time.
Although Remix OS 3.0 is based on a new version of Android (Android 6.0), I didn’t really see any significant improvement from Remix 2.0. Yes, I have noticed that there is now a full-screen icon on the application running in windows mode, and that the notification center has a white background. I have also noticed some more experimental features in the settings. But none of these changes is cool enough to make my life much easier. Jide has two years to bring some game-changing features to the Remix OS, unfortunately that just didn’t happen.
Performance
The Remix X1 is powered by a Rockchip RK3368 processor, which has octa-core Cortex A53 CPU clocked at 1.2Ghz and a PowerVR G6112 GPU. Released in 2015, this SoC. is by no means one of the most powerful ARM-based processors. There is also 2GB DDR3 RAM on board to take care of multi-tasking.
Compared to the Remix Mini, the X1 is significantly faster, but it still lags behind your average Android smartphones and tablets.
Like usual, we ran some benchmarks on the X1. The Antutu benchmark returned a score of 33,992, which ranks below most entry-level smartphones.
In the Geekbench test, the X1 scored 1241, which is also nowhere near the average of mainstream smartphones and tablets.
We always say that benchmarks are one thing, real-world performance is another. Fortunately for the X1, the benchmark scores did not entirely translate into real-life usage. The X1 remained sloppy and responsive most of the time, although I did notice that installing an app took significantly longer than on my flagship smartphones. It also took more time for bigger applications and games to load on the X1. When there were too many applications running on the desktop, the system became less responsive. Personally, I think Jide should have put more RAM into the X1 to make it more capable of handling multi-tasking, since that is what Remix OS is all about.
Connectivity
The X1 offers many connectivity options. It supports 2.4GHz/5GHz dual band Wi-Fi, and the Wireless connection is very solid, as well. There’s also Bluetooth 4.0 on board to take care of local data transfer and connecting audio and input devices. Bluetooth connection is so much more stable on the X1 than on the Remix Mini. While Mini was unable to connect with some of my Bluetooth speakers placed more about 5 meters away, the X1 had no such problems.
The X1 only has 16GB internal storage, but it offers a Micro SD card slot and as many as 4 full USB 2.0 Type-A ports, making it easier for users to connect to multiple external storages. I have my 64GB Transcend Micro SD card inserted and it works like a charm. Although the USB 2.0 ports could not offer the same level of speed the USB3.X ports are able to offer, it isn’t really that noticeable when you just play videos or music from the external storages.
A VGA port and an HDMI output make it possible for users to connect the X1 with a wide range of monitors, projectors and HDTVs. But unfortunately you can't output the X1 graphics to a monitor and a TV at the same time.
Verdict
Despite its issues and imperfections, the Remix X1 is still arguably the best Android Mini PC out there. Fairly speaking, it doesn’t really have many competitions.
Although it is cool to see an Android-based device working like a desktop PC, I am still having a hard time trying to figure out which type of customers the X1 is marketing towards. According to Jide, the Remix OS will be mainly targeting business users from now on. But unfortunately, the X1 is still no match for an average Windows desktop PC or laptop when it comes to business tasks, and the number of applications which really work ideally with a mouse and a keyboard is still relatively small. For the majority of users, Android is more used for media consumption and entertainment purposes, no matter how much you make it look and feel like Windows.
The X1 is a very competent and affordable HTPC which can handily replace all Android-based TV boxes. But if you want a device that can replace your PC for productivity tasks, you won’t be satisfied with the X1.
Jide has nearly two years to make an amazing product out of the X1, but somehow they ended up releasing only a regular upgrade of the Remix Mini. There were indeed some improvements, both on the hardware and software fronts, but with only 2GB of RAM, 16GB internal storage, a dated processor and the still relatively small Remix ecosystem, the X1 just is less promising than we expected it to be.
mod edit - http://cngadget.info/2017/5930/
Good android TV but poor company reliability. They used up all the backer funds in kickstarter and never delivered product nor they have started refunding a successful campaign only to cancel it after 10 months of using the backers money to venture to a different business. Its a good product but do expect a lot of hate comments from your disgrunted backers.
They have been very unresponsive about refunds on their canceled Kickstarter. I hope someone from the industry and the tech media could reach out and ask some hard questions, because they are now uncommunicative to the people who had backed and funded their initiative. Even their superbackers ('collaborators') are left in the dark, embarrassed with eggs on their faces.
I'm one of the IO/IO+ backers and I am really sad that it had to come to this - if I understand correctly this is the IO re branded to X1 that will be available to purchase to business users. Now I really don't understand if they were going to keep the design why they couldn't honor their backers...
Yeah Jide are scammers, just look at their Kickstarter page, I will never deal them again and advise people to avoid them
Remix X1 (Remix IO)
R.I.P Jide...
BuPe said:
I'm one of the IO/IO+ backers and I am really sad that it had to come to this - if I understand correctly this is the IO re branded to X1 that will be available to purchase to business users. Now I really don't understand if they were going to keep the design why they couldn't honor their backers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. I backed them for the Remix Mini which is doing what I wanted. Picked up a cheap Remix Ultra Tablet on eBay which kids have fun with.
Kickstarter's reputation suffers badly when something like this happens. Had to do a a bit of chasing to eventually get my Dokicam, still waiting for my Android Da Vinci game and t-shirt. Very reluctant to back any more projects with what is being reported on line.
I still want my IO+ or X1 or whatever it is being called. If Jide are not forthcoming with refunds or the IO/IO+, the company should be blacklisted internationally.
I am not a disgruntled Jide backer; I am a ripped-off backer. After backing Jide's Kickstarter Campaigns through its Remix Tablet and Remix Mini projects, I had no idea Jide would turn around and stiff all its backers with its IO/IO+ scam. After waiting for a year for the product, being fed postponement after postponement, promised new shipping dates (and even being shown pictures of the shipping boxes...whoopee!), Jide announced that it was abandoning the project and moving to the enterprise market. Refunds would be forthcoming, they promised. But now more delays, posponements and empty promises but no refunds. And, to add insult to injury, Jide is now independently marketing a re-branded IO (look at the photo of the bottom of the x1), essentially reselling the unit I paid for and never received. This appears to be a breach of (Kickstarter) contract and criminal activity, and Jeremy Chau, David Ko, and Ben Luk are complicit. These three and Jide are sleaze, at the very least.
I'm still so salty about this. Especially after looking at these images haha, man. I'm honestly really upset because it looks awesome and this was going to be my multimedia set up in my living room, to replace the HTPC I currently use for streaming and more. I took all their surveys, provided additional feedback and opinions, and even ended up paying a bit more for the upgraded model after my initial backing. Words cannot explain how much anger I have towards Jive now. I will actively avoid all future products by them. It may sound petty, but what they did is honestly unforgivable. They've lost all respect in my eyes. And I'm still waiting for my refund of ~$120 that at this point they stole from me.
I think everything that could be said about the JIDE fiasco has been said by the other posters! This X1 Box is really the Kickstarter IO device offered to backers over a year ago. Why XDA did not mention this in the article is beyond me! XDA should mention the fact that this company has now left former backers and buyers of their previous builds behind with no support nor updates to the devices they previously bought! Surprised really, XDA should be forthcoming about this as well in their write-up!
Oh my god, I wasn't really aware that Jide had made so many people mad in their Kickstarter campaigns, which I had very little knowledge about. I bought this device in their recent tester recruitment in China. To be honest, I really had fun with the device, it is probably the best TV box I have ever used. But as a Remix Mini owner, I am also disappointed with how little progress they have made since the Mini.
One month later still no refund for my IO - just a scam called X1.
jupiter2012 said:
Oh my god, I wasn't really aware that Jide had made so many people mad in their Kickstarter campaigns, which I had very little knowledge about. I bought this device in their recent tester recruitment in China. To be honest, I really had fun with the device, it is probably the best TV box I have ever used. But as a Remix Mini owner, I am also disappointed with how little progress they have made since the Mini.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much did you pay for it? I also backed this device on Kickstarter, and have yet to receive a refund. I'm trying to find a TV Box that runs Remix OS 3.0, but no luck. I hate the company because of their shady practices, but I really like the OS itself, having also previously backing and receiving a Remix Mini. It's a shame that a company with such a great product, can do this to their loyal customers, and get away with it. I personally hope that they go out of business and learn a lesson...after us backers receive our refunds, of course, haha.
guy4jesuschrist said:
How much did you pay for it? I also backed this device on Kickstarter, and have yet to receive a refund. I'm trying to find a TV Box that runs Remix OS 3.0, but no luck. I hate the company because of their shady practices, but I really like the OS itself, having also previously backing and receiving a Remix Mini. It's a shame that a company with such a great product, can do this to their loyal customers, and get away with it. I personally hope that they go out of business and learn a lesson...after us backers receive our refunds, of course, haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I paid RMB500 for it.
jupiter2012 said:
I paid RMB500 for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, not sure what currency that is, but I'll let Google help me convert it to USD, haha.
So, $74.80...and they charged us backers $99+ for one. Such pathetic crooks!
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