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Credited and thanks so much to WINFONE7 in official windows phone 7 backstage forum by provide us these useful information. What I do is just copy and paste it here to share with XDA users and reduce the confusion.
So far we know Microsoft broke away from its native Windows Mobile stack and introduced a managed API platform for developers. Developers can use this platform to build third-party mobile apps that run on Microsoft Windows Phone OS 7.0 devices, which are expected at retail in October. The company's new line of attack rests on driving .NET developers and designers to use familiar tools and skill sets to build WP7 apps for a consumer marketplace. The WP7 application development platform is based on the Microsoft rich Internet application framework Silverlight, its gaming framework XNA and the .NET Compact Framework for micro devices. In February, Microsoft announced the XNA Framework -- which is used to build Xbox 360, Windows PC and Zune apps -- now supports Windows Phone and Silverlight. Microsoft is also leveraging its consumer-focused product channels and services by integrating Zune Media, Xbox Live and Windows Azure cloud services, a major focus throughout all of its products going forward. The Windows Phone System Design, which is code-named "Metro" for its allegiance to international signage in a clean layout with an original typeface, is closer to the Microsoft media player Zune HD than Windows. WP7 applications will be distributed through the Windows Phone Marketplace -- accessible via an integrated "hub" on all WP7 devices -- and through desktop PCs. In a model that's similar to the Apple App Store, developers can monetize their apps and earn up to 70 percent of revenues from applications that pass the Microsoft certification requirements. WP7 features an Office hub with Excel, Word, OneNote, SharePoint integration and networking in Silverlight, with Windows Communication Foundation (WCF), HttpWebRequest and WebClient. The user's personalized content on the phone drives the contextual experience, from live dynamic tiles on the Start screen to task--oriented hubs that offer a wider-than-the-screen panoramic view. Developers can build apps that take up a single screen, plug in to a Windows Phone app like the photo editor, or build hub-based panoramic experiences. You'll be able to create apps that look and feel like the Windows Phone apps that come in the box, but you'll also be able to go away from that. If you want to build a video game that's full screen and doesn't use any of the look-and-feel of Windows Phone, you can certainly do that as well. Microsoft is trying to ensure a consistent user experience for end users on both the hardware and software platforms. The WP7 devices, despite having different manufacturers, will all use an ARMv7 architecture with Cortex/Scorpion processor (or better) from Qualcomm Inc., a unified graphics subsystem (DirectX9), only two screen sizes and support capacitive touchscreens with four contact points. Other hardware specifications include 256MB RAM, 8GB Flash and a 5MP camera. First-generation WP7 devices will ship with a 800x480 WVGA touchscreen, with 480x320 HVGA expected sometime after the launch. When the second resolution is shipped, application and game developers will be expected to support both.WP7 supports standard phone-specific functionality and sensors that developers can tap into, such as location (Wi-Fi, cellular and GPS) and map control (Bing), compass, light proximity and accelerometer and push notifications. The location API works with Windows Azure cloud services. Despite the uniformity, WP7 devices will be available in different form factors; so far three prototypes have been shown. Chassis 1 is the ASUS phone used in engineering and demos by Microsoft with the onscreen keyboard. A second design is a sliding QWERTY keyboard by LG Electronics; the third is the Samsung slab-style phone.
I don't think these are final representations. Manufacturers are getting a great deal of flexibility in the look and feel of the phone. There will be a lot of innovation and industrial designs that are going to be available between now and the foreseeable future.
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Q: Will my current Windows Mobile phone get a Windows Phone 7 (WP7) update?
A: It's been announced that no current WinMo phone device (inc. the HD2) will be receiving an official WP7 update.
Q: How much will a WP7 phone cost; Who will manufacturer the phone?
A: WP7 isn't a phone, it's an all new Mobile Operating System from Microsoft. WP7 devices will be available from several device makers; HTC, Dell, LG, Samsung, Asus, etc. Prices will vary and is expected to be along the lines of current smartphone pricing.
Q: When will WP7 phone devices be available?
A: According to the announcement from Microsoft, phones will be available for the Holiday season, speculation is some of the first devices will be announced late September. Official release is rumored to be in October for Europe and November for the United States.
Q: Which US wireless service providers, will offer WP7 phones?
A: All the major wireless service providers in the US will offer WP7 phone devices. AT&T was announced as a Premier partner; might be the first to offer a WP7 phone or/and sell exclusive devices or features.
Q: Will there be Copy & Paste?
A: As it stands, No, this feature will not be available at release, according to Microsoft, WP7 will have smart links / smart sensing, this takes away the need for the copy/paste method in many situations. Smart links; which recognize a block of text, such as a hyperlink, phone number, or address, allow a specific action to be taken.
For a phone number, such "smart links" would allow the number to be dialed. An address might get pulled up in the mapping program, while clicking on a hyperlink would open that page in the browser. Implementing Copy/Paste would delay WP7's release, so MS is giving us the smart sensing feature at release, but several sources have reported Copy/Paste will come in form of an early update, but there is no official confirmation from Microsoft as of yet.
Q. Does Windows Phone support multitasking?
A.Yes, WP7 supports full out multitasking but 3rd party applications will not be allowed to run in the background unless it is through a MS service; instead the app will be paused when changing to another app., (Dehydrated state). This will allow the app to be brought back to the exact same state it was in before it was paused; reducing the strain on the phone's resources. (Hydrated state) (iPhone OS4 multitasking is similar)
Scenario: If an application is running when you the user switches to another application (by using the Start menu, or tapping on a notification, or via some other means) then the assumption as a platform is that the user now wants to focus on the new application, and doesn’t want the previous one interrupting their experience by grabbing memory, CPU, network bandwidth, or other resources. When an application is suspended, during this time, the application can save global state to disk, sign-off from web sites, or perform other clean-up operations. In general this should be relatively simple, because the page-based model of Windows Phone applications facilitates a relatively stateless programming model – much of your application’s state can be encoded in page URIs (as query-string data) or as small blobs of state, stored and retrieved on each page navigation, just like the web. After your application has finished pausing, it will be suspended and no further user code will execute. Note that you can still have push notifications coming in from the cloud, so the user can be kept up-to-date via toasts or you can have your tile updated with the latest information from the web. When your application is suspended, it is not killed immediately. If the user returns to the application “soon” then it can be resumed very quickly and the state saved during pause may not even be necessary. But if the user launches other applications that end up needing a lot of memory, your process will be killed and the memory will be relinquished to the foreground application. This is a key difference between Windows Phone 7 and previous versions of Windows Mobile – the foreground application gets access to virtually all the resources on the phone (memory, CPU, etc.) without having to worry about being starved by background apps that are doing random things at unpredictable times in the background.
If your process was not killed, resume is trivial – you don’t need to restore any state from disk, but you may need to re-start device features like accelerometer or location, and you may need to re-connect to any web services. Assuming your process was killed, the app uses the previously-saved data from pause to re-create your global state, and the per-page state / query-string data to recreate the page state for each page on the back stack. The end result of all this is that users can switch back and forth between applications and have the illusion of full multi-tasking without the downside of erratic resource usage.
Q. Will I be able to customize my OS?
A.Not to the extent you could in WinMo, but in some respects - yes. The O.S. will not allow extreme tweaking. However, it is known that there are at least two themes (black on white and white on black...more are speculated to come at launch) and the tile colors can be changed currently to your choice of six colours. On a deeper level, such as modifying the underlying OS and accessing the file system - it may not be possible to do this "out of the box".
Q: Is WP7 geared just toward the consumer market only?
A: No, WP7 offers many business features at release and will continue to add more.
Business features of the WP7 OS:
Is built from the ground up using industry best practices in secure software development (Secure Development Lifecycle).
Deeply Integrates email, calendar and contacts with Exchange Server enabling rich, seamless email and calendar management to enhance productivity.
Integrates with SharePoint through the SharePoint Workspace client, enabling enhanced collaboration through offline document access and syncing.
Helps protect corporate informationby securing the device through PINs and passwords. Information is further protected by not allowing access to data via PC tethering or support for removable SD cards. In addition, Windows Phone 7 supports IT managed EAS policies such as Require Password, Password Strength, Remote Wipe and Reset to Factory Settings with multiple failed unlock attempts.
Helps ensure data reliability and integrity through application sandboxing and managed code.Windows Phone 7 ensures communications channels between applications cannot be opened and critical system resources cannot be accessed. Most malware threats are introduced through the browser. IE Mobile helps ensure that malicious code cannot be launched from web sites, thus reducing this threat.
Provides certification and verification of applications and content through Windows Phone Marketplace, further enhancing security.
Enables secure data transmission through 128 or 256 Bit SSL Encryption.
Supports secure accessto on-premise applications and network resources using Forefront Universal Access Gateway (UAG).
Is future ready with cloud / services integration. Through the Business Productivity Online Suite (BPOS), Microsoft offers hosted Exchange and SharePoint services. Windows Phone 7 will support mobile access to BPOS from Outlook Mobile and the Office Hub.
Check out Windows Phone for business:
www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/en-us/business/default.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/en-us/business/default.mspx
Q: What are the hardware specifications for the WP7 devices.
A: Microsoft put an end to freestyle design. Minimum hardware requirements are as follows:
Screen
Capacitive touch with 4 or more contact points
WVGA (800×480) or HVGA (480×320) resolution
No screen size requirements announced; rumors for Chassis 1 is 3.6" or larger.
Sensors
A-GPS, Accelerometer, Compass, ambient Light, Proximity sensor
Camera
5 mega pixels or more, flash required, camera shutter button required
Multimedia
No detailed specs, Codec Acceleration
Memory
256 MB RAM or more, 8 GB Flash or more
GPU
DirectX 9 and video acceleration
CPU
ARMv7 Cortex/Scorpion (1GHz) or better
5 Required Hardware Buttons
On/Off & Camera. These three, Start, Search (BING), and Back must be fixed to the front of the device.
Q: Will WP7 phones have a slide-out keyboard; what form factor will the phones be?
A: Several sources confirm that there will be three Chassis/form factors at this stage.
Chassis 1 (first devices to hit the market): Will be a slab, large touch screen with high performance specs, no hardware keyboard. Ex: HTC's rumored HD3 pictured, with a 4.5" screen.
Chassis 2: described as a portrait device with a sliding keyboard, DELL Lightning pictured, assumed to be this form factor.
Chassis 3: All we know is that it may have a smaller screen and rumors are that it may be a BB Curve or Palm Centro styled form factor.
Rumored WP7 devices
(W-stands for world phone; CDMA & GSM)
Based on research I've come across. Not confirmed.
HTC
Gold_W - Sprint
Shubert - GSM
Mondrian - GSM
Spark_W - Verizon
Scorpio, aka Olympian - Verizon
Mozart - GSM
T8788 (slide out speaker) - GSM - AT&T
HD7 (rumored to be HD3)
LG
GW910, aka Panther - GSM/CDMA
E900 - GSM
C900 - GSM
Optimus - GSM
Samsung
I917, aka Cetus
Taylor
SGH i707
i8700
DELL
Lightning - GSM
ASUS
Name unknown
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Make your PC look like WP7!
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/13901/make-your-pc-look-like-windows-phone-7/
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Device Connectivity (From the Windows Phone 7 Developer Forums)
Is ActiveSync still used to connect the device to the PC?
No, synchronization is automatic similar to the way the Zune HD connects to the PC.
How should I transfer information over the Internet?
Web technologies such as HTTPGET and WebServices are supported as methods of communicating on the Internet. You can also use Push Notifications for communication when your application is not running.
Can I use Sockets for peer to peer communication?
Windows Phone 7 Series currently does not expose the Socket classes. While the version of Silverlight on the phone follows closely the feature list for Silverlight 3 on the desktop, it is a subset of those features and will not contain all classes. (It also holds a superset of classes not available in Silverlight 3.)
How can I connect with another client in real-time?
Peer-to-peer communication is not supported with this initial release of Windows Phone 7 Series. We are always evaluating the needs of our developers and users though and it may be determined that this feature be added in the future.
From the Windows Phone 7 Developer Forums
Thanks dscammell
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VOICE/SPEECH RECOGNITION:
Great article on what Microsoft has in store for WP7's www.computerworld.com/s/article/9180144/Microsoft_hopes_WP_7_speech_features_surpass_Android_iPhone">http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...s_WP_7_speech_features_surpass_Android_iPhone
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Info about Microsoft's Azure Cloud
Currently Azure cloud includes:
LiveMesh
Skydrive
Microsoft’s HealthVault service
energy-monitoring Hohm service
Services currently not running on Azure: but will eventually.
Hotmail
Xbox Live
Microsoft’s hosted Exchange Online
SharePoint Online
CRM Online
Business Productivity Online Suite (BPOS)
Danger services for mobile devices
Microsoft hasn’t provided a timetable as to when it will transfer all services to Azure but one thing is certain WP7 will be highly integrated with cloud services. The thought of having all this and other services MS is currently working on, gives WP7 fans a reason to get excited.
Windows Phone 7 Series Developer General FAQ
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...s/thread/2892a6f0-ab26-48d6-b63c-e38f62eda3b3
Thanks again to WINFONE7
Cheers...hope this help....
WP7 desperately need a 3g to wifi tethering app like myfi. I used to have an iphone but switched WP7 and now I need a 'myfi' like app badly.
Can someone some building this app ASAP.
at present it's not possible to even build one as there aren't any APIs for it. I'm sure this has been asked quite a few times on this forum already... please search... rather than just continually asking what people deem as a common requirement. also search the pinned threads as they're a good place to start for missing functionality...
There are APIs. Samsung phones can tether so yh APIs are there. WP7 is just CE with some changes/additions. Microsoft just isn't allowing access to the APIs...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
The Gate Keeper said:
I would think that OEMs have a different set of APIs which provide them with native capabilities. I doubt the OEMs are writting their apps in just C# otherwise MS would have released those APIs as well.
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That's my point. The APIs exist, as does the base Windows CE system.
We just don't have the development tools nor do we have access to that level of the system to be able to write those applications ourselves.
We're limited to sandboxed Silverlight-based applications, but Microsoft and OEMs can use Native Code and APIs we don't have access to.
They exist, we just don't have access to them. Apple does the same thing with iOS.
Thanks for agreeing with me, though
also to note, those phones that can tether is done through the diagnostics, which would imply that they should be already in all windows phones and just dormant. i highly doubt it's specific to samsung phones. it may be that we only know how to do it with samsung phones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which also means WP7 supports tethering. The functionality just isn't exposed to users in the general user interface, that is why you have to dig for it. The same thing is true for Sideloading XAPs, among other things.
It's there. The OS is totally capable of it. WP7 did, in fact, inherit a ton of functionality from Windows Mobile. The difference is that the new UI doesn't expose it to the user, and applications (and the system) are managed in a totally different way.
There's a huge difference between "does not exist" and "exists, but functionality is not exposed in the UI."
Windows on a PC can access drives, etc. by device name, but that is not exposed in the UI - for example. The same is true for many features in WP7 that are there by virtue of it being based on CE and tied (although Microsoft would want you to think differently) to Windows Mobile. They just chose not to expose this functionality.
Not saying it's totalyl based on WM, since that's obviously untrue. If that was the case stuff like full Exchange support, Video support for MMS, etc. would be working.
But the fact that this stuff is there and they're dragging their feet to allow users to use it is what's keeping lots of users off of WP7 at the moment. It's taking them too long to make changes that seem too simple... Maybe for the sake of security, I don't know. They haven't really been transparent with early adopters, IMO.
EDIT: Also, you can call Native Code from managed languages (C#, VB.NET, Java, etc.), so I'm pretty sure they are writing their apps in C# and only calling native code/libraries when they need to. Writing it in straight C/C++ is [potentially] more dangerous than using a Managed Language with Interop. I can't see Microsoft going for that.
Oh hay there,
I've been tasked with making an app for windows 8, that has to fulfill the following specifications.
I've been wondering weather i should use the win RT (metro API) or the windows presentation foundation (WPF) API to do it.
requirements:
Needs to be fast (winRT has a slight edge here due to Ahead of Time compilation, but WPF can be compiled ahead of time too)
Needs to be optimized for touch (it's a draw here, WPF can be made touch friendly and supported touch from day one)
Needs to be able to communicate in background with a number of sensors (WPF has the edge here, as it can access low-level OS components, and is also not restricted should it go to the background)
Needs to be easily modified to support new technologies (This one is a bit tougher. Modifying a winRT app takes a while, it needs around 7 days just to process certification, while an update to WPF can be delivered right away. On the other hand, winRT will probably have high level APIs to handle new technologies, whereas WPF will likely be stuck with the lower end of the API, which will make it harder to modify, especially to those not familiar with windows/.net architecture.)
Needs to run on tablet (WinRT has the edge, as it can run on arm-based tablets as well).
Needs to communicate via NFC, get GPS coordinates and take pictures (WPF can do this, but again, it has lower level APIs, which might be hard to adapt in the future)
Needs to be resilient to outside tampering (virus, trojan, malware etc)(WPF is not 100% sandboxed, it has nice runtime security, but the files it creates are not protected, winRT has the edge here)
I need some opinions. I will make my own decision, but I would like to hear some of your opinions first.
Don't ask what the app does, I'm not gonna tell you.
One thing that immediately stands out, GPS. Is this using the tablets integral GPS, a USB unit or a serial/bluetooth unit? If its not integral or USB (and even then, some USB ones are USB>serial adaptors followed by a serial unit) then WinRT wont function with it. You dont get any access to serial ports, parallel ports or the onboard i2c interface via WinRT. Everything is a higher level abstraction wrapping up low level functionality, you get not raw access to it yourself. Most of these tablets out will be using a serial GPS as that is what is most common (or possibly an i2c one but thats something I have never seen before) and WinRT will provide a nice set of wrappers to let you interface with the integral GPS only, but it wont give access to the serial port or the bluetooth serial profile which means it will ignore bluetooth, external serial or certain USB GPS devices. So yes, WPF would certainly have the edge there. But if we are just talking the GPS chip built into the tablet, WinRT will suffice and provides easy access to all onboard sensors, its only external ones that will cause headaches.
WinRT vs regular .NET speed wise likely wont make much difference. I'm not sure that WinRT is fully AoT dependant for its apps (except C/C++), I think it still falls back on .NET, and even if it is AoT the .NET JIT is almost as effective (and with some kludging can be set to AoT I think, mono certainly can and can cope with WPF applications).
I dont own a tablet so cant say too much on touch, I have only handled display model tablets. Tbh, I found most desktop apps annoying on tablets. even if you enlarge buttons and fonts to make them more touch friendly you can run into additional issues, a menu thats too long to fit on screen cant necessarily be scrolled with a touch friendly gesture (well, you can try, but your probably going to have to write some of your own code, might not be that hard actually, I havent tried). If the app is purely meant for touch then I would go WinRT unless there is a specific reason not to.
Updating taking 7 days I dont see as a major problem, everyone else does it and on numerous platforms. It may well take 1 day to integrate a new tech into a WinRT app and 2 weeks on the WPF app in which case the WinRT guys still get the new tech before WPF, or vice versa is equally likely.
NFC communications, GPS and cameras are all easily done in WinRT (with the previous restriction, device only, non external, I assume a webcam works though).
WinRT is probably the more secure option too.
If I were you I would write down each little thing the app needs to do in order to function, ie access a specific type of GPS (you already said you wont share, thats fine). Then go down the list and start ticking off which ones WinRT has the technology to do. We can pretty much assume that eventually WPF will also do it so there is little reason for a WPF checklist. If you get to the bottom of the list and WinRT is fully ticked off, then go with a WinRT app. If there are a few things missing, well then start to weigh up whether it would be better to try and get a WPF app playing nicely with touch and implementing a few things at a lower level or alter the design specification to fit WinRT, I assume there is a client involved here, if there are issues sit down with them and discuss your thoughts and see if they are happy with changes to go one way or the other.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
One thing that immediately stands out, GPS. Is this using the tablets integral GPS, a USB unit or a serial/bluetooth unit? If its not integral or USB (and even then, some USB ones are USB>serial adaptors followed by a serial unit) then WinRT wont function with it. You dont get any access to serial ports, parallel ports or the onboard i2c interface via WinRT. Everything is a higher level abstraction wrapping up low level functionality, you get not raw access to it yourself. Most of these tablets out will be using a serial GPS as that is what is most common (or possibly an i2c one but thats something I have never seen before) and WinRT will provide a nice set of wrappers to let you interface with the integral GPS only, but it wont give access to the serial port or the bluetooth serial profile which means it will ignore bluetooth, external serial or certain USB GPS devices. So yes, WPF would certainly have the edge there. But if we are just talking the GPS chip built into the tablet, WinRT will suffice and provides easy access to all onboard sensors, its only external ones that will cause headaches.
WinRT vs regular .NET speed wise likely wont make much difference. I'm not sure that WinRT is fully AoT dependant for its apps (except C/C++), I think it still falls back on .NET, and even if it is AoT the .NET JIT is almost as effective (and with some kludging can be set to AoT I think, mono certainly can and can cope with WPF applications).
I dont own a tablet so cant say too much on touch, I have only handled display model tablets. Tbh, I found most desktop apps annoying on tablets. even if you enlarge buttons and fonts to make them more touch friendly you can run into additional issues, a menu thats too long to fit on screen cant necessarily be scrolled with a touch friendly gesture (well, you can try, but your probably going to have to write some of your own code, might not be that hard actually, I havent tried). If the app is purely meant for touch then I would go WinRT unless there is a specific reason not to.
Updating taking 7 days I dont see as a major problem, everyone else does it and on numerous platforms. It may well take 1 day to integrate a new tech into a WinRT app and 2 weeks on the WPF app in which case the WinRT guys still get the new tech before WPF, or vice versa is equally likely.
NFC communications, GPS and cameras are all easily done in WinRT (with the previous restriction, device only, non external, I assume a webcam works though).
WinRT is probably the more secure option too.
If I were you I would write down each little thing the app needs to do in order to function, ie access a specific type of GPS (you already said you wont share, thats fine). Then go down the list and start ticking off which ones WinRT has the technology to do. We can pretty much assume that eventually WPF will also do it so there is little reason for a WPF checklist. If you get to the bottom of the list and WinRT is fully ticked off, then go with a WinRT app. If there are a few things missing, well then start to weigh up whether it would be better to try and get a WPF app playing nicely with touch and implementing a few things at a lower level or alter the design specification to fit WinRT, I assume there is a client involved here, if there are issues sit down with them and discuss your thoughts and see if they are happy with changes to go one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response
The tablet picked for this job has the following minimum requirements:
Intel z2760 atom processor (apparently, they prefer x86 over ARM)
2 GB of RAM
NFC, GPS, Bluetooth (integrated, as in the tablet has no external USB adapted sensors or something)
mini USB
front camera 2 MP
back camera 8 MP
64GB storage
It's basicaly an asus vivo tab smart.
I suppose the GPS and NFC are built in. I haven't developed much with winRT, so i don't know all the ins and outs.
Btw, did Mono get WPF working? Last time I checked they said WPF was too large scale for them to port.
mcosmin222 said:
Thanks for the response
The tablet picked for this job has the following minimum requirements:
Intel z2760 atom processor (apparently, they prefer x86 over ARM)
2 GB of RAM
NFC, GPS, Bluetooth (integrated, as in the tablet has no external USB adapted sensors or something)
mini USB
front camera 2 MP
back camera 8 MP
64GB storage
It's basicaly an asus vivo tab smart.
I suppose the GPS and NFC are built in. I haven't developed much with winRT, so i don't know all the ins and outs.
Btw, did Mono get WPF working? Last time I checked they said WPF was too large scale for them to port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.
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Click to collapse
Well I heard 8.1 gives winRT extended device driver capabilities.
Maybe it will work fine by then...
SixSixSevenSeven said:
I think mono on windows gets WPF as it can fall back on the live already there, they haven't got a Linux or mac version for sure though, only winforms although there is a 3rd party lib that gives a few controls which look very much like the WPF counterparts which should work on mono. Or there are .net bindings of QT and GTK.
If its the integral GPS as you say, WinRT should cope absolutely fine. Did some more googling and it seems WinRT will only recognise GPS device with an actual device manager entry, that is what discounts serial devices, it may actually be possible to give a serial device a kick up the backside so its listed in device manager alongside the integrated one but in your case its not needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we decided to go for WPF^^
mcosmin222 said:
Well, we decided to go for WPF^^
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Click to collapse
Well, if microsoft gets something right, that is the .net framework.
Kinda funny I can actually call winRT assemblies from WPF(non UI ones ofc).
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
Deusdies said:
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
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Click to collapse
Well if its for your criteria of a full Desktop you are right - you can't do this with Windows RT, thus with no RT tablet. But as im using my Surface as a thin client, remoting my home pc or my server for all the stuff i can't do on my tablet it's quite wonderful. And the Windows Store has been incresing ever since, last week i reset me tablet and did some serious store browsing to get up to date with available apps and i probably couldn't find anthing that's not there - development environment and compilers excluded of course. But as far as i can see - not knowing your area of expertise - there is everything you would need to get a basic start, though some apps will cost a dollar/euro or two. Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
As for the Nokia 2520, it definitely looks good! Haven't actually seen this one come up, looks promising.
To sum it up: if what you like is the new Modern UI interface you can definitely go with an RT tablet for there are plenty of apps available. For the desktop that's a whole other story, as I've described (jailbreak/ported apps) - if you are willing to compromise, you will get another added benefit from this cool piece of hard- and software.
The decision which RT tablet to use should be yours i guess, there are quite a few out there, but in a matter of usability I deem them all to work the same.
Greetings,
Fasin
The app market you can check out on your full windows 8 machine no problem. I do personally think its a bit limited.
Windows RT is for all intents and purposes windows 8 running on ARM instead of x86 processors. This does bring a few limitations, and then microsoft impose 2 more.
ARM and x86 processors are rather obviously not compatible. x86 programs cannot run on ARM and vice versa normally (you could emulate an ARM CPU on x86 and vice versa but thats slow).
Most "metro" apps are compiled in both ARM and x86 versions. There are a few which are not for whatever reason. But most should be available in both stores. The vast majority of metro apps use C# or VB.net anyway which dont output native ARM or x86 machine code and instead use .NET bytecode (the .NET runtime is present on both windows 8 and windows RT). VLC is the only major exception I can think of right now, although that hasn't been publicly released yet and ARM is planned (right now its x86 only).
Just about all desktop software for windows is x86. It won't run on ARM. If its open source it may be portable however the only compiler capable of targetting Windows RT is MSVC whereas alot of software can only be built in alternative compilers. There is a list (already linked in the post above) of software which people have managed to recompile for Windows RT.
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
Whether the RT is suitable or not depends on your needs. If all your going to do is surf the web, well its full blown internet explorer 11 not some sucky mobile browser, it even has flash (but not java, which you should not confuse for javascript. However iOS and android dont have java either).
You get full RDP support in windows RT. So you can view the screen of and interact with your real windows 8 desktop remotely on the tablet. In the ported apps section for jailbroken devices there is also VNC which does the same thing but is cross platform unlike RDP which is supposed to just be windows (however there is an RDP server for linux too so if you have a linux machine, install the RDP server, remote access it on non jailbroken RT device no problem).
You get microsoft office. Its missing plugins and macros. But otherwise, its a full office suite. Its more than android or iOS have.
Being close enough to normal windows, you get a full file browser which supports network mapped drives and USB etc as you do on your desktop. Android can have file browsers, but they usually arent as good as a desktop file browser. iOS doesnt have a file browser at all.
With the file browser you have support for USB storage. Got some photos on a memory stick, plug it in, you can view them. iOS cannot do this. Some android phones can, some can't (your LG should be able to).
True there are not as many apps as iOS or android. But both iOS and android had low apps counts when they first released and according to what little public data there is, windows after 1 year is about on par with both android and iOS app counts after 1 year. It takes time (but will it take too long is a better question)
Thank you both very much. Very well thought out responses. I was debating between getting the Dell Venue 11 Pro (full Windows 8) or the Nokia 2520 being as that they're the same price, but I have honestly been convinced to get the RT version.
Fasin said:
Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. My. Gott.
I had no idea that this even existed. I think this is pretty much what settles it - I'm definitely getting an RT. Notepad++? Python? 7-zip? Amazing! Vielen dank!
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
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Click to collapse
You're right, that truly is an odd restriction. Perhaps they just want people to use Windows Store more and more? But from this thread it seems that Jailbreak "fixes" a lot of issues - and I didn't even know this existed until now (admittedly I wasn't into the Windows 8 on mobile devices a whole lot until now).
Yep, I think my only pseudo-concern is now gone. Thank you again both, and Nokia 2520 - here I come!
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
BestBuy will have Surface RT for $200 in Black Friday. I'd like to buy one since it is such cheap and I can play with some ARM Win32 programs.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
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Click to collapse
I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
I've just read Engadget's review of Nokia 2520, which is overall positive. But I thought it would be much better than the Surface 2, and apparently (according to their review), it isn't. In fact, I thought it will have a better battery life, while in fact it has worse.
As a student I also get a 10% discount on Surface only, and I have a $25 Microsoft Store gift card that I got eons ago, so that brings the total cost for a Surface 2 down to ~$370, which is phenomenal.
It's still in between Nokia 2520 and Surface 2...
Deusdies said:
I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
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To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
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I do program on a laptop with a 14" 1366*768 display. I have used much higher resolution displays though and it is certainly alot better.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
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Yep... I do all of my programming on a desktop. At work 3 monitors, at home 1, but 27". So, yes, tablet is just for movies, some games, etc.
It is possible to emulate some x86 programs on RT's ARM processor, however often it will be slow. Most desired programs won't run through emulation (including utorrent, VLC, Steam, etc)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
Rakeesh_j said:
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
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No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
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Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
Rakeesh_j said:
Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
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trying to start flamewars again...
SixSixSevenSeven said:
trying to start flamewars again...
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No, it's very much on topic. If the goal was to start a flame war, then the OP beat me to it a long time ago.
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
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Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
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I don't really see it that way. Just issue an 'oem unlock' command to the device and you're golden. RT devices however by design forbid doing anything like that.
That said, the ultimate limitation in RT comes from this: RT won't run any app unless MS explicitly greenlights it. A lot of the more interesting apps (to me anyways) are ones that companies like MS and in some circumstances even Google wish didn't exist at all, like ad blockers, being able to tether without carrier permission, etc. Even so, not all of these require root and there's nothing stopping you from using them on Android.
Rakeesh_j said:
Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
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Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
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Two things:
Comments I've heard from developers
And most importantly, Microsoft's own comments
SixSixSevenSeven said:
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
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That later bit is more of a reason to not want RT. Virtually every platform out there uses OpenGL. The number of devices that use directx exclusively make up such a small percentage of the marketplace that it almost may as well not even exist. Android wouldn't gain anything at all by having it (really, no developer out there has ever said "I'd port to Android if only it supported directx,") and it really hurts that RT/WP don't have it. For this reason, any developer who says that they'll only use DirectX is shooting themselves in the foot. Microsoft is doing exactly that - too many games developers said they probably wouldn't ever bother porting anything to RT/WP because they don't want to spend all of the money on porting because the revenue gained is almost guaranteed to not be worth it. Sure, some game engines now support it, but that doesn't solve the problem of backporting their own customizations and additions to the base engine.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
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Click to collapse
That's probably because you missed the point entirely. It has nothing to do with whether or not battlefield is an FPS. The point is that I've seen web browsers do more impressive things than RT apps. Battlefield is merely an example of why even Chrome is more valuable to me than RT.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
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Click to collapse
You aren't telling me anything new here. Microsoft has done something similar more than once and we've already seen the results: It'll just go derelict and then eventually deprecated but still kept around.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if MS created an app store for win32 apps similar to what apple is doing with OSX. Their current store model is just a flat out knockoff of the ios app model (contrast to the play store model where each publisher is at their own discretion, and some people still wonder why android/play is by far more popular than the rest) so they may as well go all the way with it.
Hi,
Please resolve my basic queries in regards of Windows Phone:
Like Rooting in android and Jailbreak in iOS, is there anything in Windows Phone as well?
Android apps are .apk. Like this, what about Windows phone apps?
In case of android, some of users install apk from different sources (apart from Play Store). Can it be done in Windows phone as well?
In comparison to android phone, how Windows phones are secure?
Can we install .exe file in Windows Phone? and
In comparison of Android, why should we consider windows phone?
Regards
GNS
Google search engine is your only friend.
1. There are a handful of devices that can be rooted at this time. Some of them have custom ROMs available to them as well.
2. Windows Phone apps are .xap (old filetype), .appx (current filetype), and .appxbundle (package of .appx and other required files).
3. Yes, apps can be sideloaded from the computer, installed via Device Portal over the internet, and some are directly installable by executing them.
4. Windows Phone is currently the most secure mobile OS.
5. Maybe?
6. It's a personal choice if you use it or not. Each OS has it's pros and it's cons. You can get one pretty cheap, around $30-50. If your intrigued, buy one and play with it.
1- Developer unlocking (allows amateur apps, very easy to do) and interop unlocking (allows breaking the sandbox -hence "interoperation"-, mostly unrestricted editing of system files, comparable to root, is done via an exploit in the OS)
2- .xap, .appx, .appxbundle
3- Some applications can be installed by simply opening their file on the device, some (mainly WP8 .xap) are installed with an application deployment tool (requiring a PC). But generally speaking the practice of manually distributing apps is not very popular.
4- Both OSes have exploits, and both are updated. Windows Phone/Mobile has an advantage in practice, but only because most devices are 1st party and Nokia/Microsoft have great lifetime cycles on their products.
5- No, at least not computer programs (apps still contain a .exe binary, but most power users never touch or even see them directly)
6- It's all a personal opinion I like the fact 99% of apps support external storage out of the box, the clean UI, and the app gap isn't a big deal as everything I need to do is covered!
I'm a relative beginner too so some of the above may not be exact...
I'm going to assume you're asking primarily about Windows 10 Mobile (W10M), not the legacy Windows Phone (WP7.x and WP8.x) OS family. Although the underlying OS is very similar between WP8.x and W10M, the answers to some of your questions change.
Yes, all W10M devices can now be jailbroken/rooted (we don't have a single term for it right now; if you say "rooted" people will know what you mean). On W10M, there are two critical elements to rooting a phone: the ability to run unsigned (or at least non-MS-signed) code outside an app sandbox, and a way to launch an application with high privileges. We can now do that for all W10M devices, including WP8.x devices upgraded to W10M.
As others have said, the extensions are .xap (Silverlight / XNA apps, used for WP7.x and some WP8.x apps, still supported on W10M), .appx (WinRT, used for W10M and some WP8.1. Used for "Universal" Windows [Phone] 8.1 and Windows 10 [Mobile] apps, such as W10's "Universal Windows Platform"), and .appxbundle (just a collection of .appx files and their various resources / requirements). As with .APK files, they are just ZIP archives and can be opened by 7-Zip or anything else that knows the format (unless they are DRM-encrypted, which ones from the Store often are).
Yes, W10M supports sideloading. It's actually easier to enable on W10M than it is on Android (it's an easily-found option in Settings). By default you're limited to 20 sideloaded apps at once, but there are ways to bypass that.
Against external attacks, W10M is extremely secure. There have been no easily-exploited vulnerabilities (like Stagefright for Android), so far as I know. The app store is also better curated that the Play Store, and you can fully control the privacy settings of individual apps. Also, unlike with Android, Windows phones continue getting updates long after release, especially if you use the free preview / Insider programs to get your updates before your OEM or mobile operator bother to approve them (which sometimes never happens, both on Android and Windows, but on Android the only way around that is to go with a custom ROM; on W10M Microsoft makes it possible to still get updates).
Very much depends what you mean. In one sense, yes, of course; all W10M executables (both system and app) are EXE files (.XAP files may contain only a DLL that is loaded by a system EXE; newer apps include their own EXE). EXEs intended for desktop PCs generally won't run, though, because they use the x86 or x64 instruction sets, and the phone uses the ARM (actually THUMB2) instruction set. These are completely different "languages", and ARM CPUs cannot understand x86 machine code without an extremely slow interpreter in the middle. Additionally, the phone does not support the "Windows desktop" user interface at all, so you can't run any graphical programs (except "immersive"/"Metro-style"/WinRT/whatever-they-re-calling-it-this-week) ones. Command-line interface programs can be run (if they're compiled for ARM processors, and the phone is jailbroken) but there's not (yet) any translation layer for running x86 apps, even command-line ones, on the phone.
A more consistent UI across phones. Better control over when apps run and what they do (which often gives better battery life). Much better update support, even for "unsupported" phones. Pretty good performance even on really low-end phones; a cheap Windows phone will run much better than a cheap Android phone. Better security. Higher-end Lumias have some of the best cameras ever put in phones. Continuum for Phones (connect to a real monitor, and optionally USB keyboard and/or mouse, and run apps on a bigger screen). Easy access to pre-release builds, if you like trying out the bleeding edge features and such. Integration with all the Microsoft services (Exchange and Office365, Skype, OneDrive, etc.), although you can still use Google mail/calendar/etc. Tap-to-pay with high-end Lumias. Many apps can be used on both PC and mobile Win10 but you only need to pay once. Easy to re-flash your phone if something goes catastrophically wrong (commonly called "soft bricked", i.e. you can't even factory reset anymore), although they don't get into that state any more often than Android phones. Specs-for-specs, Windows phones are often cheaper than Android ones. Doesn't send a bunch of personal info to Google (of course, maybe you don't trust Microsoft any better, but at least their primary business isn't advertising).
... there are lots of reasons, just as there are lots of reasons to prefer iOS, or to prefer Android. Without more info about what you find important in a phone, it's hard to guess what stuff you'd care about.