Develop Bugs

random noob questions...

OK,
1st Hi all and thanks for not bashing my lack of knowledge. I have done many searches and am now more confused than before.
I am comming from a droid X, I did the z4 root on it to get wifi tether working, it was on 2.2.1 I believe. Well it went very good, but I never got a push for an update. Got the new GN on verizon and tried to restore it back to stock, didn't work, so instead of selling it I gave it to my mom. Also, did this on a friends and he did get the update push and lost the root and superuser access.
This story is just so you know I am a complete noob. Other than following someones set by set on using Z4 I have really not done anything and have some questions on my new phone.
1. why would I want to unlock the bootloader?
2. after reading about the wifi hotspot by svtp do I need to root?
3. If i root and/or unlock the bootloader will this stop the updates from google (main reason I bought the phone)?
4. I am not into overclocking or modding but I want to be able to have wifi if I ever need it. That is the only thing I want.
Basically I am looking to unlock the wifi and still get all the google updates, is this possible? As of right now I think buying the svtp app is my best bet, I just don't want an unexpected bill showing up.

ok, still not rooted or unlocked. cannot get svtp to work wifi

Follow this guide --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1382163

re #1: you need to unlock the bootloader to do pretty much anything non standard with your phone.
Since unlocking the bootloader wipes all data on the phone it's a good idea to do it early. You can leave it otherwise stock while you think about it, you can even relock it if you need to return the phone for some reason.
Neither unlocking nor rooting the phone will stop you getting the OTAs, it's custom roms that will do that. However most OTAs will stop your root access because they reset the permissions on your su files.
hth

Clancy_s said:
Neither unlocking nor rooting the phone will stop you getting the OTAs, it's custom roms that will do that. However most OTAs will stop your root access because they reset the permissions on your su files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to add further to this... not only will custom ROMs stop you from getting OTA updates, having custom recovery (ClockworkMod) will prevent them from applying, even with the stock ROM. If using a stock ROM with custom recovery, you'll need to do the update manually. If you wait until you get the update notification, your phone should have downloaded the update to /cache. You can then use the custom recovery to apply the update. Alternatively, you can look on these forums for someone to post the URL to the OTA update zip file, download it, and flash it manually (this way you don't need to wait until your phone gets the update, you can download it and have it sooner).
In either case, you'll usually need to re-root, as stated. This is easier with a custom recovery, because you should just have to flash superuser immediately after flashing the update, before rebooting.
Until CM9 is stable, I'm running the stock ROM with ClockworkMod recovery. I can download the OTA updates manually and flash them with ClockworkMod then flash superuser and I'm good to go. Custom recovery makes it nice and easy to retain root, as well as the ability to do nandroid backups, etc.

[Q]Does having S-OFF stop OTA updates?

The question is simple, I hope someone can answer!

ColdFire InOx said:
The question is simple, I hope someone can answer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, as long as you don't modify the system partition, or firmware.

Rouz. said:
No, as long as you don't modify the system partition, or firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So can I install Better Battery Stats and GSam Root Companion and such apps or will that affect OTA availability?

ColdFire InOx said:
So can I install Better Battery Stats and GSam Root Companion and such apps or will that affect OTA availability?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you don't need s-off to use these apps. You can just unlock the bootloader and root.
Unlocking the bootloader does not have any affect on the OTA system. But installing a custom recovery to root your device breaks the update process, unless you flash back the stock recovery before taking the OTA.
Also make sure to not to make any changes in the system apps after rooting, as it may cause the update to fail on system check.
I think you should try reading a bit more about the whole unlocking and rooting process before you proceed. There are a lot of useful threads in this forum that can help you.
If you have any other questions you can ask here.

Rouz. said:
Actually you don't need s-off to use these apps. You can just unlock the bootloader and root.
Unlocking the bootloader does not have any affect on the OTA system. But installing a custom recovery to root your device breaks the update process, unless you flash back the stock recovery before taking the OTA.
Also make sure to not to make any changes in the system apps after rooting, as it may cause the update to fail on system check.
I think you should try reading a bit more about the whole unlocking and rooting process before you proceed. There are a lot of useful threads in this forum that can help you.
If you have any other questions you can ask here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well my device has indeed unlocked bootloader already and also root access. However, installing the apps I mentioned makes them malfunction - I install as system app as it asks to but it seems to fail as it keeps asking me to repeat the process every time I try.
I am not a beginner to rooting phones although I am a beginner in what concerns the HTC S OFF procedure.
I accidentally deleted two stock apps upon a factory reset after rooting (flashlight and calculator), but I already found the apk and reinstalled them.
P.S. - AdAway also failed to function but from what I have read around it requires S-OFF to work properly.

ColdFire InOx said:
Well my device has indeed unlocked bootloader already and also root access. However, installing the apps I mentioned makes them malfunction - I install as system app as it asks to but it seems to fail as it keeps asking me to repeat the process every time I try.
I am not a beginner to rooting phones although I am a beginner in what concerns the HTC S OFF procedure.
I accidentally deleted two stock apps upon a factory reset after rooting (flashlight and calculator), but I already found the apk and reinstalled them.
P.S. - AdAway also failed to function but from what I have read around it requires S-OFF to work properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all you need is a insecure kernel as you can see changes to the system partition are lost if you don't have one
look for a matching kernel to your rom or choose a rom that already includes this feature
The only reason you need s-off is to flash firmware older than the one currently on the phone and some GPe/Lollipop roms

no OTA possible since root :( no all-in-one thead :(

hey, someone could have warned that the OTA updates don't work anymore after rooting the phone -.-... first with somehow reverted recovery (don't know how it happened) it failed, and now with TWRP it doen't do anything and sits idle in recovery mode, with no alarm clock... -.-
also I'm used to have a all-in-one-thread with links to the latest firmwares etc, I can't find this here.
so, what's the latest firmware, are there differential patches I can install with TWRP or only the >1GB full images?
I'm on version 10B or so, something with 'b'. from june.

Only solution is to flash v10b "stock" and lose root (by that you'll be able to Ota update), or the newer version (using LG flash tool). Note that you'll lose all date on your phone.
Edit:
By flash I meant using LG flash tool. (for which version you'll like to install.)
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

*Of course* OTA updates won't work with root...what else could you have been thinking??

You actually have been warned if you had read the root thread...
Gesendet von meinem LG-H815

In the past, not all rooting automatically meant that OTA updates were stopped. This was an optional step you could take. Early on, when a phone is first released, updates from the provider should be expected - this is something why I might hold off on rooting ASAP. As the life cycle of the phone starts to wear on, less updates (or no more updates) so less of a concern. There was/is an app I use to use call OTA Root Keeper that allowed one to not turn off the OTA updates - as some are valuable like the coming Stagefright patches we should expect - and get the OTA updates and then also keep root. Taking an OTA update could mean you loose root even with OTA Root Keeper if part of the update is closing an exploit. That was always a risk. But for me, having updated proper software often outweighed the risk with losing root and in fact, OTA Root Keeper always worked for me so I never lost root on my phones or tablets. But as we know, phone makers and providers hate root so they work to close every exploit and I suspect that would be why shutting off OTA updates is part of the current root tool/method you refer to. Most are cool with shutting off OTA updates.
For example, in this current root method it clearly says "Now that you're rooted, MAKE SURE YOU DISABLE OTA UPDATES, if you accidentally take an OTA, you might not be able to roll back or fix it." so it looks as if in this case OTA updates are NOT shut off and you have to manually take that step if you want to.
kyle1867 said:
*Of course* OTA updates won't work with root...what else could you have been thinking??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is not true.. this is exploit specific

the bootload is unlocked, therefore we have full access anyway, it's totally impossible to deny root to a phone with open bootloader.
therefore it should be doable to unroot, revert recovery back to stock, to ota, and do it all again. but it's annoying.
I tried to flash the OTA update (it's in /cache/xxxota/something), after renaming it to .zip and .img, but it didn't work.
any other way to simply extract the files from the OTA?

I was have root and update software via lg bridge. Now i dont have root but i dont need it till we have twrp and custom rom/s.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3175493
Try this one
Sent from outer space using telepathy

Root & Rom Advice from the Ground Up

I need some help and I've looked all over but the information is fragmented and there is too many unfamiliar acronyms used which make it incredibly difficult for some like myself to catch up. So for the benefit of others who may be new I wanted to get some additional guidance.
I got the Pixel XL Google Version
Objectives:
1. Root with the ability to hide root so other apps will work
2. Native Mobile Hotspot
3. The ability to easily receive android updates without having to reflash etc..
4. Stay close to stock if possible, but willing to explore other options as long as security is trusted, and has good
compatibility.
5. Security is a concern, I tried a rom in the past with a Galaxy S4 and swear it had a backdoor installed in the rom.
What do you guys recommend? And how do I go about doing it?
Thank you!

If security is truly a concern you will not unlock your bootloader and root your phone.
Otherwise it all depends on which version phone you have, Verizon or Google?

1. You need magisk root for that.
3. No updates when you are rooted
4.5. Never heard of any custom rom with a backdoor. That's absolutely bull****. More likely it was an app you installed.
Unlocked bootloader is a security issue, so better to stay on full stock.
Root is a big security issue so better stay on full stock.
Jokes aside the only security issue is your phone gets stolen or you install apps outside playstore.
If you stay encrypted and use a hard pattern with fingerprint you are fine and there is always the way to delete your phone when it gets stolen.

mikaole said:
1. You need magisk root for that.
3. No updates when you are rooted
4.5. Never heard of any custom rom with a backdoor. That's absolutely bull****. More likely it was an app you installed.
Unlocked bootloader is a security issue, so better to stay on full stock.
Root is a big security issue so better stay on full stock.
I have the Pixel XL - Google Version
Jokes aside the only security issue is your phone gets stolen or you install apps outside playstore.
If you stay encrypted and use a hard pattern with fingerprint you are fine and there is always the way to delete your phone when it gets stolen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point about security really was that it's quite possible a ROM could have a backdoor. That a side..
Root is not a big security issue for me as long as the rom is trusted etc..
Shouldn't I be able to turn root off then be able to update and turn it back on again?

jadensmith said:
1. Root with the ability to hide root so other apps will work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's possible to root to one slot with SuperSU while the other slot remains unrooted, and then the phone can be switched between slots with TWRP or fastboot commands. Kernels have been posted with safetynet patches, to hide that the bootloader is unlocked, but I'm not sure if any are available with the software version on my phone's current slot. As noted, Magisk can also hide root and that the bootloader is unlocked, so it's probably less hassle than trying to root and hide using SuperSU.
3. The ability to easily receive android updates without having to reflash etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FlashFire can use the OTA to update and stay rooted with SuperSU. The past couple months I've used FlashFire to update my phone, and it seems quicker and easier than the sideloading and reinstalling process I had been using. I'm not aware of anything similar to FlashFire for Magisk users, so to me it seems like you would have to decide if 1 or 3 is more personally important.
jadensmith said:
Shouldn't I be able to turn root off then be able to update and turn it back on again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While reading I got the impression that I might be able to uninstall SuperSU and use the OTA update, but that didn't work with SuperSU the times I tried it, so I presume something SuperSU changed or something I did with root must have caused the update to fail. I haven't read the Magisk threads as much, yet I've seen that other SuperSU users also indicate that OTA updates no longer worked for them after rooting the phone.

alluringreality said:
It's possible to root to one slot with SuperSU while the other slot remains unrooted, and then the phone can be switched between slots with TWRP or fastboot commands. Kernels have been posted with safetynet patches, to hide that the bootloader is unlocked, but I'm not sure if any are available with the software version on my phone's current slot. As noted, Magisk can also hide root and that the bootloader is unlocked, so it's probably less hassle than trying to root and hide using SuperSU.
FlashFire can use the OTA to update and stay rooted with SuperSU. The past couple months I've used FlashFire to update my phone, and it seems quicker and easier than the sideloading and reinstalling process I had been using. I'm not aware of anything similar to FlashFire for Magisk users, so to me it seems like you would have to decide if 1 or 3 is more personally important.
That didn't work with SuperSU the times I tried it, so I presumed that something I did with root must have caused the update to fail to install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow thanks for the great reply! It's so refreshing!
What do you mean by root one slot?

The phone has two "slots" for Android. The basic idea is that you have two copies of Android on the phone that share the same user data. On a stock phone it's intended to allow for less noticeable updates, and it also can allow the phone to fall back to the previous software version if something goes wrong with an update. On the May update my phone did automatically switch between slots, due to what is discussed in the second link below. The first link below gives some information and additional links to discussion about the slots on these phones.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/1...-partition-changes-and-new-fastboot-commands/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...signing-boot-images-android-verified-t3600606

Is it possible to keep stock or near stock and just have root with the ability to hide root, and hotspot?
That's all I really need. What would be the best way to to do this?

Use OTA for installing custom ROM

Is it possible to somehow leverage the in-built OTA mechanism to install any custom ROM, while keeping the bootloader unlocked on a A/B device?

No, unless you're a rocket scientist...

galaxys said:
No, unless you're a rocket scientist...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not, where is the verification happening? Is there a signature verification after downloading the file, which can maybe be bypassed with root?

I could be wrong but I think a couple ROMs have their own OTA service baked in.
Also, I don't think it's too difficult/much more of a hassle to download the zip, reboot to recovery and flash.

nithinmanne said:
Is it possible to somehow leverage the in-built OTA mechanism to install any custom ROM, while keeping the bootloader unlocked on a A/B device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were looking to flash a custom ROM with the stock recovery, required for sideloading an OTA, it wouldn't work. Each factory image or OTA image is signed by Google. The stock recovery is coded to look for that signature. If the recovery finds the signature it allows installation to continue. Any other signature or no signature at all will cause the process to halt with an error. In order to get a custom ROM to install using the OTA system you'd have to spoof Google's key in the ROM package so the stock recovery "thinks" it's installing a factory image or OTA.
What I described above applies regardless of whether the bootloader is locked or not. If your bootloader is unlocked, flash TWRP and call it a day.

Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
If you were looking to flash a custom ROM with the stock recovery, required for sideloading an OTA, it wouldn't work. Each factory image or OTA image is signed by Google. The stock recovery is coded to look for that signature. If the recovery finds the signature it allows installation to continue. Any other signature or no signature at all will cause the process to halt with an error. In order to get a custom ROM to install using the OTA system you'd have to spoof Google's key in the ROM package so the stock recovery "thinks" it's installing a factory image or OTA.
What I described above applies regardless of whether the bootloader is locked or not. If your bootloader is unlocked, flash TWRP and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In A/B devices, it happens without a recovery, right, using update_engine. Do you know if there's a way to point it to a custom URL, instead of OEM's?

I don't believe the recovery is used for updates in the off slot on A/B devices. However, regardless of whether the recovery is required or not you still have to contend with the signing key requirement. So even if you could change the path to point to a particular download server, the absence of a Google signature will prevent the download from ocurring.
What you want is not possible because of the signing key requirement.

Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
I don't believe the recovery is used for updates in the off slot on A/B devices. However, regardless of whether the recovery is required or not you still have to contend with the signing key requirement. So even if you could change the path to point to a particular download server, the absence of a Google signature will prevent the download from ocurring.
What you want is not possible because of the signing key requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All this validation happens in HLOS, right? Can this not be manipulated using root by replacing Google's OTA key?

nithinmanne said:
All this validation happens in HLOS, right? Can this not be manipulated using root by replacing Google's OTA key?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know where it is, but a good guess would be the bootloader itself. And if that guess is right, not even root will help. You'd need to replace or modify the bootloader, which is a task beyond any of us.
If it were as easy as you make it sound, LineageOS and ROMs based on it wouldn't need their own OTA download systems.

Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
I don't know where it is, but a good guess would be the bootloader itself. And if that guess is right, not even root will help. You'd need to replace or modify the bootloader, which is a task beyond any of us.
If it were as easy as you make it sound, LineageOS and ROMs based on it wouldn't need their own OTA download systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The flashing happens when HLOS is still running(in Pixel, atleast), right? The bootloader can only verify when booting after flashing.

nithinmanne said:
The flashing happens when HLOS is still running(in Pixel, atleast), right? The bootloader can only verify when booting after flashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I don't know. I do know however that this rabbit hole is deeper than I can go. You'll have to continue on your own from this point, because I simply have nothing left to add to the discussion.
Good luck. Hopefully you manage to avoid bricking your $1000 device in trying this.

Strephon Alkhalikoi said:
Again, I don't know. I do know however that this rabbit hole is deeper than I can go. You'll have to continue on your own from this point, because I simply have nothing left to add to the discussion.
Good luck. Hopefully you manage to avoid bricking your $1000 device in trying this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'm not testing on my phone, I'm doing it during free time at work, where I can test on a debug 845 device, running android P. Its way easier, as I have access to more logging, and it takes 2 minutes to flash, even if I brick it. So I can try any solution you can think of. I eventually want to get it working on my phone though.