Develop Bugs

WP7 Apps Windows 7 Desktop

Could wp7 apps be unlocked to run on windows. They all run in silverlight right. Should it not be like a java app and run anywhere?

Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.

kapanak said:
Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.
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If GAC constains required assemblies then it's possible. But it's useless (more than me )...

From what I seem to remember, when you compile for WP7 it compiles into Common Language Runtime. Its much like Java's bytecode but slightly different.
Assuming it does compile to CLR, apps should be able to run, so long as the needed frameworks exist.

windows 8 will do that
I suspect that Windows 8 will do just that. As Microsoft is planning to bring windows 8 to tablets with the Metro UI, i think wp7 apps will be really easy to run on windows 8, so they match the touch UI of the platform...

If you look at Game Chest: Logic Games, it contains a multiplayer game of Chess. If you challenge someone else to a game and they're not using a WP7 device, the notifications of game moves come through to them on xbox.com. When they click the notification, it actually fires up a version of Chess that is IDENTICAL to the one on my phone, in the browser. So it looks to me like they have done exactly what the OP is asking about, i.e. they have recompiled the game to run in silverlight under IE8.
It works brilliantly.

[Q] I saw an amazing thing! win8 x86 can be installed on RT

today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。

seven7xiaoyang said:
today I talked about the RT OS with ffriends.Suddenly one said that win8 os pad can run on Windows RT and a RT OS PAD can run on win8 x86！！he is joking ！！Besides，he said he did that successfully for many times。。。。。
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No it cannot. Your friend clearly lacks the common knowledge that RT is for ARM and windows 8 is for x86. Round pegs do not fit square holes.

I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.

GoodDayToDie said:
I can't really understand your English; did you mean "app" where you wrote "pad"? The fact that Win8 and WRT share apps is well known; there are a few apps which are only for one platform or the other but almost all the apps are available for both. Native code apps need to be recompiled for the other platform, but managed (.NET) and HTML5 apps will run un-modified. This is not news.
If you mean the ability to run some x86 desktop apps unmodified on Windows RT, that's due to mamaich's emulation layer, combined with clrokr's "jailbreak" exploit (and usually netham45's scripts to automate the process). Relatively few apps run correctly through that emulation layer, though, and the new Windows Store apps are not supported. There is no support that I'm aware of for running ARM-compiled Windows apps on x86, although ARM emulators certainly do exist and if you could boot Windows RT on one of them, that would allow you to run the apps (somewhat indirectly).
If you mean actually installing Win8 (or any other x86 OS) on Windows RT, that's technically possible through the use of emulators (not sure DOSbox supports enough CPU features for Win8, but Bochs probably does) but the performance is abysmal.
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sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP

seven7xiaoyang said:
sorry for my poor English!:crying:.I meant the os not the APP
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You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.

netham45 said:
You cannot install Windows 8 x86 directly onto Windows RT hardware. It doesn't work.
You probably saw someone RDPing to an x86 desktop.
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Thank you! I am thinking about the sideloadling the appx,hope for some help

OK, I'm still not sure what you're talking about - just a couple posts up, you said you weren't talking about apps, and now you're talking about .APPX files - but as was mentioned above, most APPX files will be architecture independent (managed code or HTML5); only the native code ones will need different .APPX files for Win8 and RT.

Info about the Current state of Java and OpenGL on Windows RT (8/8.1)

Hello my name is Filiph Sandström but you can call me filfat. in this thread we are going to talk about the current state of Java and OpenGl on Windows RT(8/8.1),but before we start i just want to say thank you for clicking on this thread and if it helped you remember to click the "Thanks" Button! Alright with that cleared out, lets start! :laugh:
Updated: 2013-11-18
Java
Java is a programming langue that develops by Oracle with the idea of one similar langue for all electronics like a dishwasher or a Microwave.
Currently java does NOT exist on Windows RT, but there is a workaround available. The workaround is called Ikvm.
Ikvm is a Java emulator developed in .NET/C# to migrate an existing Java database application to .NET langue.
however to our advantage it can be used to run *almost* any Java application that doesn't require a 3rd-part library like "lwjgl" or similar.
I'm sure that there's a lot of guides out there on how to run application but i will give you a example anyways:
Run_Java.bat
Info:
Code:
This Example executes the jar file "helloworld.jar"
Code:
Code:
@ECHO OFF
ikvm -jar helloworld.jar
To Summarize: We now have basic Java application's running on our Windows RT device, but what if we want to play a game,
or do something that require OpenGL. well here is where the OpenGL section steps in.
OpenGL
OpenGL is a way of rendering not just 3D things but about everything, it is currently the most widespread 2D and 3D API(application programming interface).
It is used in many games and application. Sadly Windows RT do not have support for this as the desktop mode was never intended to use to other things then Office and well, maybe paint .
So what do we do in a situation like this, where most of the games and applications doesn't run because of OpenGL.
We write a OpenGL to DriectX Warpper*. so in short running games like Minecraft is possible BUT it require a OpenGL to DriectX Wrapper which currently does not exist. so you CANNOT run Minecraft or any other Game/Application that require OpenGL yet...
To Summarize: We do know a possible way to run OpenGL on Windows RT however no one as of yet have taken that mission and started working on a OpenGL to DriectX Wrapper. We would also need to modify Ikvm to be able to load external library's but that's a whole other story.
Ending
Thank you for reading, and as I said in the beginning of the post "if it helped you remember to click the "Thanks" Button!".
Also, i will be adding more info when I got time or when things gets release. See Ya! :laugh:
*When i say wrapper I mean a translator that translate OpenGL code to DirectX code for the CPU

Comming Soon...
Reserved

Sources
Sources
Java
Ikvm
OpenGL
A Word To A Moderator
if you think this thread is useful consider making it a sticky

I thought we already had an OpenGL wrapper for RT. At least that's what I believe is used to make Quake 1 and 3 run:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2312019
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=42338198&postcount=1

Yeah, there already is an OpenGL>DX wrapper. It wasn't used for quake 1 though, the quake 1 RT port is based on DirectQ which had its renderer rewritten for DirectX, was used in Quake 3 I think.
IKVM cannot load LWJGL or other similar libraries on x86. ARM isn't the limitation, OpenGL with the wrapper potentially wouldnt be the limitation either. IKVM itself is. Its an old project and if it was ever going to get native code execution it would have by now.
Although I think java applications on IKVM can make use of .NET extensions which in turn can make use of native code so one could potentially write an IKVM port of LWJGL which on the java side exposes the same API so minecraft etc couldnt tell the difference, but under the hood taps into .NET for rendering. That would probably result in a bit of a mess which may not actually run in the first place. The efforts put into making and debugging such a thing would be better put into porting the jvm itself.
Unless we got a native JVM on RT, I dont think we will see minecraft. Even if you could get LWJGL running, IKVM is just way too slow either way and as it is, the surface is quite a slow device, minecraft on a real JVM on ARM will still be laggy.

Just tossing this out there but what about compiling OpenJDK for arm? It's a pretty active project
http://openjdk.java.net/
I'm a software developer and will try and give this a shot over my Thanksgiving / Christmas downtime. I have an Asus VivoTab still on Win 8 while I wait for the 8.1 jailbreak. Guess Im starting to get bored and kind of ticked that the microsoft store sucks.
Edit:
Added info for reference later
Minecraft Ubuntu ARM
Edit 2:
Build Instructions
http://lwjgl.org/
Webos running guide

Thexfactor2011 said:
Just tossing this out there but what about compiling OpenJDK for arm? It's a pretty active project
http://openjdk.java.net/
I'm a software developer and will try and give this a shot over my Thanksgiving / Christmas downtime. I have an Asus VivoTab still on Win 8 while I wait for the 8.1 jailbreak. Guess Im starting to get bored and kind of ticked that the microsoft store sucks.
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Then check developement forum and forget about it. There's no mingw/gcc targetting windows/arm. I think that this should be posted sticky on both RT forums.

[Q] Tablet / Desktop/Phone app compatiblity

Hello:
This is my first posting here and I'll be getting a Surface RT tablet this thanks giving. I have a iMac 2013 running Windows 8.1 and Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate thru MSDN.
I would like to develop Windows Store desktop/tablet/phone apps (using C#, XAML) or Xojo that should run on Surface RT, Surface Pro, Windows Phone, Windows 8, Windows 7, Vista and XP (supporting both 32 bit and 64 bit). I wanted to know whether the desktop apps I'm developing would run on all of these environments or is it limted to run only on Surface variants. The intent of buying a Surface RT is to take it to college while at the same time test the apps on Surface RT and deploy to the Windows store. I'm confused on the ARM and Intel/AMD cpus and do I need to change anything in Visual Studio 2013 config to target these environments.
Please advise.

ARM vs x86 is simple enough to cover quickly. Computer processors always use a particular "instruction set" to tell them what to do. x86 is one instruction set, ARM is another instruction set, an ARM processor of course uses the ARM instruction set and an x86 processor uses the x86 instruction set.
Computer software is usually compiled from human readable source code into machine code which the processor then executes or they are interpreted where a piece of software which has already been compiled via the previous method then reads your source code and processes the output directly (as they rely on existing software, you cant write an operating system in an interpreted language, they are often referred to as scripting languages instead of programming languages but in terms of application software they are sometimes just as capable if just slightly slower). Then standing write in the middle you get the bytecode languages, you take human readable source code and compile it into bytecode, the bytecode essentially being an instruction set for a processor which doesn't exist in hardware, you then take a piece of software called a virtual machine which takes the bytecode and processes the output, sort of a half way between being fully compiled and fully interpreted.
Java compiles to java bytecode for the java virtual machine, as long as you have a functional java virtual machine you can run your java application on any platform (and java is indeed on most desktop operating systems and on multiple instruction sets). C# and Visual Basic .NET both compile to .NET Bytecode for the .NET virtual machine, again, with a functional .NET virtual machine you can run a C# application on any platform (unfortunately only windows (including RT) has microsofts official .NET virtual machine, but mono is compatible and runs on other platforms too). C or C++ are compiled, compiled languages must be compiled for a particular operating system and instruction set. Python, lua or batch are interpreted, as long as you have a functional interpreter they will run on any platform. One thing to take note of, in theory it is possible to take a particular programming language, lets say a compiled one, and then write an interpreter for it instead of a compiler (and there are indeed C interpreters) or an interpreted language and write a compiler for it (has been done too), but we are ignoring that.
Visual studio will build windows applications in C/C++ or it is the IDE of choice for C# or VB.net on .NET. No surface limitations, with plugins (or considering usage of mono on other operating systems) it can even do extra platforms and languages too (I personally use it for python and have used it for arduino microcontrollers). It supports both ARM and x86 for C/C++, I admit I have not tried C/C++ in visual studio for windows software so I dont know if it simply builds your software 2/3 times or if you need to manually select ARM but the drop down for it is in the build configuration manager either way so you can always take a look in there for yourself, for .NET it says Any CPU (it is possible to tell it to make an x86 or ARM only .NET application, I am yet to come across why with the exception of perhaps optimisations). Windows store apps generally have to be done in Visual studio and officially your only options for store apps are C++, C#, VB.net and Javascript.
Store apps in my opinion are *not* a good introduction to programming. Console applications are far better to start off with. Leaves you with an issue, windows RT cannot run any application except store apps without a digital signature attached to the executable, which is great but we have no way of obtaining those signatures ourselves, only microsoft do. End result is that you can compile your C project for ARM from visual studio or take a .NET application, but you cant run it on the RT (which is an ARM device). Useful huh? Someone wrote a jailbreak which removes this restriction, but its for RT 8.0 only, the 8.1 update breaks it.
Also windows store apps are different from windows phone apps. You wont be able to write an app for both. You would have to write 2 entirely seperate apps. Only windows 8, 8.1, RT and RT 8.1 can run store apps. Only windows phone can run windows phone apps. Officially only windows 8 (including 8.1) and below can run desktop. Your cross platform ambitions are just that, ambitions. For 1 beginner, they are unattainable.
Xojo is for web apps, aka glorified websites.

DOS programs?

Are DOS programs able to run on win RT? I have a Fjölnir compiler I would like to run and it is for DOS. I currently use it on my win98se setup, but I would like to use it on the go.
Qiangong2

Are you running Windows RT 8.0 by any chance? If so you can run the "jailbreak", and DosBox is available:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=36620852&postcount=117
I use it quite a bit and it works great on my Surface RT. If this is a true DOS program it should work.

domboy said:
Are you running Windows RT 8.0 by any chance? If so you can run the "jailbreak", and DosBox is available:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=36620852&postcount=117
I use it quite a bit and it works great on my Surface RT. If this is a true DOS program it should work.
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No, I'm on 8.1 I've tried it on dosbox on my Linux setup and it only sometimes works. I was wondering if it is possible to run them nativrly like on win98se
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Free mobile app

You could always try it and see, but I highly doubt it. Trying to run it natively via the command prompt you will probably run up against the fact that Windows RT devices are ARM not x86. DosBox masks that by providing a software layer to presents a virtual x86 DOS environment, whereas the command prompt will not and will expect compiled programs to be compiled for the ARM cpu architecture (not to mention digitally signed by Microsoft unless you run the jailbreak). Unless it happens to be a batchfile...
That's odd that it only sometimes works in DosBox... I wonder if some tweaking of the DosBox configuration might be needed... I'm really not much of an expert, but I know there are all sorts of settings that can be changed to suit the program (side note, I think it's awesome that one can set it to emulate a Tandy 1000).
There are rumors that a RT 8.1 jailbreak might finally become a possibility...

domboy said:
You could always try it and see, but I highly doubt it. Trying to run it natively via the command prompt you will probably run up against the fact that Windows RT devices are ARM not x86. DosBox masks that by providing a software layer to presents a virtual x86 DOS environment, whereas the command prompt will not and will expect compiled programs to be compiled for the ARM cpu architecture (not to mention digitally signed by Microsoft unless you run the jailbreak). Unless it happens to be a batchfile...
That's odd that it only sometimes works in DosBox... I wonder if some tweaking of the DosBox configuration might be needed... I'm really not much of an expert, but I know there are all sorts of settings that can be changed to suit the program (side note, I think it's awesome that one can set it to emulate a Tandy 1000).
There are rumors that a RT 8.1 jailbreak might finally become a possibility...
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It's my company's surface rt, so... I will get the win10rt upgrade no matter what I do
Thanks though
Qiangong2

Qiangong2 said:
It's my company's surface rt, so... I will get the win10rt upgrade no matter what I do
Thanks though
Qiangong2
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Just an FYI but I am pretty sure there will never be a Windows 10 RT. The last I heard Win10 was not coming to RT, but there would likely be an update to give some Win10 features to RT.