Hello,
Fairly new to android and rooting. Only rooted one phone (Dad's gs2 bc it had firmware and camera issues) but I was successful.
Using a virgin Galaxy S4 on tmobile since april only mild battery issues. Was waiting for uodate and shocked that we only get jellybean instead of 4.4 kitkat??!!
So question:
Upgrade and lock bc of KNOX and just wait?
OR
Dont upgrade and root and add kitkat now?
Is it worth the upgrade?
Galaxy s4 on Tapatalk
KNOX doesn't lock your phone. Its builtin to the 4.3/4.4 bootloader and if you root or flash roms, it trips the flag and voids your warranty. That is all. If you don't care about the warranty, flash away. You can root your current firmware and flash the 4.3 or 4.4 roms that are on thr forums that have KNOX removed. I'm on 4.2.2 and Ive upgraded using flashable roms and came back without having to worry about KNOX
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thanks, do you happen to have a link to a How to?
Galaxy s4 on Tapatalk
95gsrturbo said:
Thanks, do you happen to have a link to a How to?
Galaxy s4 on Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be handy, as bouncing around the threads on the update and the initial ROMs being developed leaves a lot of questions and there are a number of soft bricked devices because of it.
Apparently, if you want to stay totally away from knox, you cannot simply flash the new radio as-is, as without having loaded the new knox bootloader, a number of functions will not work. And if you just flash the new OTA based ROMs, you can have problems also,
Work is being done to de-knox the radio, but I don't know where that stands. Nor am I sure if when that is done if you will be able to flash and use the new OTA ROMs and also revert to 4.2.2 without having to first revert to previous radio.
So again, a guide on living with knox would be helpful.
gaww said:
That would be handy, as bouncing around the threads on the update and the initial ROMs being developed leaves a lot of questions and there are a number of soft bricked devices because of it.
Apparently, if you want to stay totally away from knox, you cannot simply flash the new radio as-is, as without having loaded the new knox bootloader, a number of functions will not work. And if you just flash the new OTA based ROMs, you can have problems also,
Work is being done to de-knox the radio, but I don't know where that stands. Nor am I sure if when that is done if you will be able to flash and use the new OTA ROMs and also revert to 4.2.2 without having to first revert to previous radio.
So again, a guide on living with knox would be helpful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to know whether, if I upgrade to 4.3 using Kies (I'm on rooted 4.2 stock), I can re-root and remove Knox (as I've done in 4.2). I know I can re-root, and permanently void the warranty, but I don't know if Knox is removable in 4.3.
ubizmo said:
I'd like to know whether, if I upgrade to 4.3 using Kies (I'm on rooted 4.2 stock), I can re-root and remove Knox (as I've done in 4.2). I know I can re-root, and permanently void the warranty, but I don't know if Knox is removable in 4.3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you upgrade to 4.3 via Kies you will trip KNOX if you change ANYTHING. Once it's tripped, you can't clear it.
The only way to avoid tripping the KNOX flag is to use a rom with KNOX removed
Can someone clarify something for me. Does having the 4.3 bootloader and knox 0x1 prevent you from flashing CM/GE/AOSP/Non-TW4.3+ ROMs? I've been staying on the old bootloader and am considering just updating. If the knox 0x1 only affects warranty and not flashing of any ROM I want, then I don't care if I have 0x1
95gsrturbo said:
Thanks, do you happen to have a link to a How to?
Galaxy s4 on Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the thanks button
Synergy510 said:
Can someone clarify something for me. Does having the 4.3 bootloader and knox 0x1 prevent you from flashing CM/GE/AOSP/Non-TW4.3+ ROMs? I've been staying on the old bootloader and am considering just updating. If the knox 0x1 only affects warranty and not flashing of any ROM I want, then I don't care if I have 0x1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only voids warranty afaik. Why not stick with the old bootloader and just flash new roms without the new knox bootloader? Best of both worlds.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
xdapowerapps said:
Only voids warranty afaik. Why not stick with the old bootloader and just flash new roms without the new knox bootloader? Best of both worlds.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was considering it only because I thought the new bootloader made a difference. Thanks for the reply
Synergy510 said:
I was considering it only because I thought the new bootloader made a difference. Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Np. In my honest opinion, this new bootloader is just another middle finger to the consumers under the false pretense of solidifying security measures for the few coorporations that have actual need for KNOX. This is Samsungs way of avoiding responsibility for failed hardware. Okay enough ranting lol. New bootloader serves only as a way to inform Samsung or the store you are returning to that your warranty is void.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------
He put it in a better way:
Skipjacks said:
As for upgrading to 4.3 you do not need the 4.3 bootloader and you don't want it. It has a way to show that you've previously rooted the device that cannot (as of yet) be reset.
Just flash 4.3 ROMs in recovery. Anything you find in the development section will work fine. But if you want Wifi Calling you HAVE to use a T Mobile specific Touch Wiz ROM. You cannot use just any Touch Wiz ROM or any AOSP ROM at all.
If you want the T Mobile Wifi CAlling on the stock 4.3 rom and don't want all the other BS that comes with it, use this guide...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2546024
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-M919 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
xdapowerapps said:
Np. In my honest opinion, this new bootloader is just another middle finger to the consumers under the false pretense of solidifying security measures for the few coorporations that have actual need for KNOX. This is Samsungs way of avoiding responsibility for failed hardware. Okay enough ranting lol. New bootloader serves only as a way to inform Samsung or the store you are returning to that your warranty is void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, many people with real jobs have security requirements for their mobile devices. KNOX has nothing to do with Samsung attempting to avoid responsibility for hardware failures. They have nothing to do with each other. Where did you get this BS from?
I guess it is the interwebs so people can make up anything they want.
xdapowerapps said:
Use the thanks button
"Thanks button"???
:good:???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jcbofkc said:
Umm, many people with real jobs have security requirements for their mobile devices. KNOX has nothing to do with Samsung attempting to avoid responsibility for hardware failures. They have nothing to do with each other. Where did you get this BS from?
I guess it is the interwebs so people can make up anything they want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I specifically stated in my first sentence that it is my personal opinion. I also stated that corporations do use KNOX but not to the extent that everyone needs to have it pushed out to them without a choice. Quit getting your panties in a bunch and learn to read.
xdapowerapps said:
I specifically stated in my first sentence that it is my personal opinion. I also stated that corporauselesso use KNOX but not to the extent that everyone needs to have it pushed out to them without a choice. because toing your panties in a bunch and learn to read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My panties are not in a bunch. KNOX has nothing to do with the samsung warranty in the case of hardware failure. Your opinion is useless if it is based on garbage. Make sure you know what you are talking about instead of making stuff up when giving advice.
jcbofkc said:
My panties are not in a bunch. KNOX has nothing to do with the samsung warranty in the case of hardware failure. Your opinion is useless if it is based on garbage. Make sure you know what you are talking about instead of making stuff up when giving advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not reading anything I wrote and are living in your own bubble. Your arrogance precedes you. I've stated the facts and I've stated my opinion, if you can't connect two and two, you shouldn't be responding in the thread. Now kindly be quiet and bring the thread back to topic.
Related
So after being inactive for months I came across stuff about "KNOX"(Knox free etc) and MIJ MJ5 stuff and that it looks like its hard to downgrade or something like that, can anyone explain me what exactly KNOX is and what MIJ is?
I assume MIJ and MJ5 stuff is the firmware version.. and roms using those tags in their title are based of them? Or can I only flash those when I have that firmware?
I actually didn't even have any problem yet.. but I've been running official MIUI for the past months anyway..
If you search at forum little bit you'll find all your answers
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
vagsvag said:
If you search at forum little bit you'll find all your answers
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very helpful... in fact I already did that which is why I posted this question in the first place.
DeadSix17 said:
Very helpful... in fact I already did that which is why I posted this question in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, maybe you have to search better I suppose.
OK no problem you need help you are saying if I understood well, knox is new security function for secure phone's communication for company use etc, it is using many levels of security starting from bootloader and goes to system etc etc Google it for more information, also knox checking your system for rooting etc and voids your warranty (look at note 3 forum), is difficult or impossible to remove it, but if you have already install it drketan made a patch for n7100 which is removing successfully knox from your bootloader.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2500823
Follow the instructions and knox finished from bootloader, after this
you can downgrade to 4.1.2 use triangle away flash stock f/w restore warranty etc
Little bit more searching noone hurts
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
vagsvag said:
Sure, maybe you have to search better I suppose.
OK no problem you need help you are saying if I understood well, knox is new security function for secure phone's communication for company use etc, it is using many levels of security starting from bootloader and goes to system etc etc Google it for more information, also knox checking your system for rooting etc and voids your warranty (look at note 3 forum), is difficult or impossible to remove it, but if you have already install it drketan made a patch for n7100 which is removing successfully knox from your bootloader.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2500823
Follow the instructions and knox finished from bootloader, after this
you can downgrade to 4.1.2 use triangle away flash stock f/w restore warranty etc
Little bit more searching noone hurts
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if knox is installed, i will still be able to root, but its somehow setting a value which manufacturers can check and see if I rooted or what? (I also don't believe I have Knox im not sure, i updated to 4.3.x once via odin but only used that to fix my EFS and then go back to CM10.2 and or MIUI (depends on my mood))
You can see if you have or not at download mode volume down +home+power at last line, it is writing knox something.... . Knox is present at mj5 second leak 4.3, if you have it you need to use drketan's 2 patches to remove it before downgrade.
Are you ok now? Your questions answered?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
vagsvag said:
You can see if you have or not at download mode volume down +home+power at last line, it is writing knox something.... . Knox is present at mj5 second leak 4.3, if you have it you need to use drketan's 2 patches to remove it before downgrade.
Are you ok now? Your questions answered?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep thanks.
DeadSix17 said:
Yep thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you hit the "thanks" button beyond the posts of the guy who helped you?
I tought it is even mentioned in your signature one should....
tetakpatak said:
Why don't you hit the "thanks" button beyond the posts of the guy who helped you?
I tought it is even mentioned in your signature one should....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess I should rephrase it then?
Is anyone working currently working on a solution to this catastrophe? I'm one of the unfortunate individuals that happened to acquire an S4 with this build preinstalled. Needless to say, I'm pissed.I'm curious as to if it's even possible to bypass Knox. I'd love to liberate my Galaxy from Touch Wiz and install a the official GE ROM.
I'm more interested in the updated LTE modem that seems to be tied into the 4.3 knoxed up bootloader since I'm still on 4.2.2.
aka_word said:
Is anyone working currently working on a solution to this catastrophe? I'm one of the unfortunate individuals that happened to acquire an S4 with this build preinstalled. Needless to say, I'm pissed.I'm curious as to if it's even possible to bypass Knox. I'd love to liberate my Galaxy from Touch Wiz and install a the official GE ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is nothing to solve. you may install CWM/custom ROM as normal.
dcd1182 said:
there is nothing to solve. you may install CWM/custom ROM as normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you care about your warranty this may trip a counter "KNOX WARRANTY VOID 0X1" or something like that. But anyway, the part about voiding you warranty is a theory. In some cases I've read where a device was repaired in store with a simple re-flash of stock firmware, resetting the counter. Other cases have reported sending them in to either be fixed for free or sent a bill for tripping the counter. So the choice is your, just be informed of the concequences before you make your decision. This phone is damn near $700.
omnifarious said:
If you care about your warranty this may trip a counter "KNOX WARRANTY VOID 0X1" or something like that. But anyway, the part about voiding you warranty is a theory. In some cases I've read where a device was repaired in store with a simple re-flash of stock firmware, resetting the counter. Other cases have reported sending them in to either be fixed for free or sent a bill for tripping the counter. So the choice is your, just be informed of the concequences before you make your decision. This phone is damn near $700.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd prefer to keep my warranty intact as well as the resell value. By the time I'm ready to sell it, I'm sure people will start caring about having the manufacturer's warranty still intact.
dcd1182 said:
there is nothing to solve. you may install CWM/custom ROM as normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest build prevents users from gaining root access.
What build ? CM?
My S4 Is Insane
DEVIANT DEVELOPMENT MEMBER
aka_word said:
The latest build prevents users from gaining root access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was able to run CF-Autoroot after taking the update via Kies. I haven't installed Knox but I am on the MK2 bootloader. I don't believe it prevents root access...
aka_word said:
The latest build prevents users from gaining root access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
totally irrelevant.
re: gaining root
aka_word said:
The latest build prevents users from gaining root access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wonder where you read that rumor. LOL
You must be google'ing way too much!
Misterjunky said:
I just wonder where you read that rumor. LOL
You must be google'ing way too much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is drawn from my own experience.
Hey, as my Note II is still under warranty for a long time, I'm looking for a 100% sure way to root without my files getting lost and the KNOX counter going up.
Right now:
Fully stock Note II running 4.3 (N7100XXUEMJ9, updated via Kies)
What I want:
Rooted stock ROM and stock kernel, just to use apps that require root access.
Warranty not void
Thanks!
martinlink said:
Hey, as my Note II is still under warranty for a long time, I'm looking for a 100% sure way to root without my files getting lost and the KNOX counter going up.
Right now:
Fully stock Note II running 4.3 (N7100XXUEMJ9, updated via Kies)
What I want:
Rooted stock ROM and stock kernel, just to use apps that require root access.
Warranty not void
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can look here.
i personally not tried it yet.
sora9009 said:
you can look here.
i personally not tried it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't the kingo thing found to be a malware of some sorts? I found that thread too but remembered from somewhere that it starts connecting to some chinese servers on its own or something...?
martinlink said:
Wasn't the kingo thing found to be a malware of some sorts? I found that thread too but remembered from somewhere that it starts connecting to some chinese servers on its own or something...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah and thats why im not using it yet.better safe than sorry mate..
sora9009 said:
yeah and thats why im not using it yet.better safe than sorry mate..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
So currently, no "safe" way to root a 4.3 note II without raising KNOX counter, yeah?
martinlink said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking...
So currently, no "safe" way to root a 4.3 note II without raising KNOX counter, yeah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup..
sora9009 said:
yup..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have PM'd a few Mod's who had closed threads concerning rooting without tripping knox, who from their post history at least, looked like they where in on the discussion on whats going on.. Nothing back from any of them yet (even asked for direction to the proper thread to get updates)
Sadly, as the last thread I saw was closed on NOVEMBER 6th due to IMEI and HTTP concerns, there have been 4 new release's for the Kingo software, and yet I cannot find a single XDA thread (admittedly 20min~ is about my limit for the site search engine) about if any of those 4 updates resolved the issues XDA had with the root tool...
I desire to simply remove the bloatware, not void my damn warranty... screw you Samsung for disabling the DISABLE feature for BLOATware...
Hey guys. So I just got a Samsung galaxy tab pro 8.4 and it's full of crap. I also read that installing a new rom will mess your warranty right? Will rooting it also mess it?
ValdoNunes said:
Hey guys. So I just got a Samsung galaxy tab pro 8.4 and it's full of crap. I also read that installing a new rom will mess your warranty right? Will rooting it also mess it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes both rooting and flashing puts an end to your warranty
the first thing you can do which will make quite a difference is go to settings / general /application manager and tap on each one of Samsung's bloats - there must be more than 30- and see which ones can be disabled. they are quite plenty. disable them you will end up with a much lighter touchwiz
it is totally harmless and needs no rooting.
off course after rooting you can freeze all of them but first things first
oh and enjoy your tab!
Sent from my SM-T320 using XDA Free mobile app
Thanks!
I already deactivated some of them, but I'm a bit afraid of deactivating something I shouldn't. Is there a list of what I can deactivate?
I also installed nova launcher and the same icon pack I use on my phone.
EDIT: also, how do you add/remove widgets on the lockscreen?
It will definitely not remove the hardware warranty...
rchtk said:
It will definitely not remove the hardware warranty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wut? the rooting or installing new rom?
Why not install towel root (depending on what firmware you have) then su pro and then install titanium backup and remove or freeze the bloat Ware. If anything goes wrong just reflash the original firmware for your region and all is good again. That's exactly what I have done mate and it didn't trip knox either.
The problem is that I heard that it eliminates all warranty..
ValdoNunes said:
The problem is that I heard that it eliminates all warranty..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Towel root does not trip knox.
Cheers,
Rich
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Really? I thought there was no way to do it.
ValdoNunes said:
wut? the rooting or installing new rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both. You'll find nothing that states this nor I the contract you so signed or on Samsungknox website. That's a myth.
And even if it was this wouldn't apply in Europe or in the US..
Was is removed is Knox warranty. Meaning that the device has been tampered with.
rchtk said:
Both. You'll find nothing that states this nor I the contract you so signed or on Samsungknox website. That's a myth.
And even if it was this wouldn't apply in Europe or in the US..
Was is removed is Knox warranty. Meaning that the device has been tampered with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what is even the Knox warranty? You're telling me that it will be known that the device has been tampered with, but i can still send it to warranty and get assisted ?
ValdoNunes said:
So what is even the Knox warranty? You're telling me that it will be known that the device has been tampered with, but i can still send it to warranty and get assisted ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Knox is like secureboot with PC it creates a chain of trust from bootloader up to ROM. If anything of this chain is modified Samsung will not feel responsible for any software related bugs or software security concerns.
Hardware warranty is lost only if the manufacturer can prove that your software modification resulted in damage. Over clocking or playing wih thermal threshold are such cases. Rooting or flashing is not..
rchtk said:
Knox is like secureboot with PC it creates a chain of trust from bootloader up to ROM. If anything of this chain is modified Samsung will not feel responsible for any software related bugs or software security concerns.
Hardware warranty is lost only if the manufacturer can prove that your software modification resulted in damage. Over clocking or playing wih thermal threshold are such cases. Rooting or flashing is not..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. Greatly explained. Thanks!
rchtk said:
Rooting or flashing is not..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could confirm that:
Towel root does not trigger any visual flags
Flashing a ROM (like CM11) does trigger "Kox Warranty Void" flag but not "Knox" flag.
So if one likes to play safe from ServiceCenter point of view, rooting is a bit safer option...
can't you temp root it?
then you can remove the bloatware and when you restart, you are not rooted!
My Samsung Galaxy S3, which I got last April, came to me from Virgin Mobile (same model as Sprint) running Samsung's build of 4.1.2. When the update came, I upgraded to 4.4.2, rooted, and eventually flashes Philz and CarbonROM. My knox has been tripped. Can anyone tell me what update the Knox bootloader came with, and why I can't revert to it? I believe it came with the 4.4.2 update, but I'm not totally sure. So, why can't I revert to a Knox free build and bootloader? I have read that it causes a brick, but how and why can't I simply get rid of the Knox bootloader by flashing over it and going back to stock 4.1.2? Any help is appreciated.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
It's a efuse, so if you try to revert to pre-knox it trips the efuse and bricks. Knox is geared towards enterprise and, I would guess, government users as a security measure. Unless it is going back to Samsung you don't need to worry about Knox being tripped.
mattzeller said:
It's a efuse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Can you tell me what an efuse is, and what it has done to brick the device? What part bricks it, and why can't you get rid of whatever bricks it? I viewed a YouTube video where someone did it on a note 3. Sorry for the noob questions.
Is it possible to format everything and force updates to whatever partition particular items are in? Thanks. It probably won't go to Samsung ever.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
Here's a pretty good article about it:
http://omegadroid.co/wanted-knox-void-warranty-0x1/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2541343
In short, it's not possible because the system physically breaks something inside your device and uses that as a flag for whether you have tripped Knox or not
You brick when you try to downgrade because low level parts of the system besides the bootloader get flashed properly, but when it gets to the bootloader Knox tells it that it can't be flashed so it will fail there. From there, you are stuck with a system that is running two sets of incompatible low-level firmware and so the phone refuses to boot in a mixed state such as that
Thanks guys. I understand what you've said, except that something physically breaks in my phone. What was physically added, by the 4.3 software update, that will brick it other than the incompatible software and bootloader? Also, would you mind explaining how exactly someone reset it on their exynyos note 3? A video on YouTube is available about it.
And basically, you're saying that Knox just prevents me from flashing a bootloader? Does that restriction only apply to old Samsung bootloaders, or all including third party? Thank you all so much.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
metalhead131 said:
Thanks guys. I understand what you've said, except that something physically breaks in my phone. What was physically added, by the 4.3 software update, that will brick it other than the incompatible software and bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
Nothing physically. eFuse means electronic fuse, but not as in a discreet physical fuse. Just that the MK3 bootloader makes it so that the warranty/Knox bit is irreversible, like a fuse.
Also, would you mind explaining how exactly someone reset it on their exynyos note 3? A video on YouTube is available about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they can explain if you ask them, if it's indeed true.
And basically, you're saying that Knox just prevents me from flashing a bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Knox does several things. Preventing you from downgrading the bootloader is consistent with one of its purposes: to not be able to erase evidence that the phone has been tampered with.
Does that restriction only apply to old Samsung bootloaders, or all including third party? Thank you all so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean by third party bootloaders. There are no third party bootloaders. Maybe you're talking about kernels?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
roirraW "edor" ehT said:
Hi!
Not sure what you mean by third party bootloaders. There are no third party bootloaders. Maybe you're talking about kernels?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought that since there are custom Roms, kernels, and recoveries, there might be custom boot loaders. So there is no way to erase a bootloader either?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
Sigh, next time I'm definitely going with a nexus.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
metalhead131 said:
I thought that since there are custom Roms, kernels, and recoveries, there might be custom boot loaders. So there is no way to erase a bootloader either?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You erase/corrupt a bootloader and your phone loses the ability to boot. And this doesn't just apply to Samsung phones, all devices work like this. The bootloader is what commences the boot up process and without it the device literally doesn't know how to turn itself on.