Develop Bugs

[Q] FM Radio ?

There have been some indications the Galaxy Nexus would include an FM radio. Is there any conclusive evidence of FM ?
If Google ships the Nexus with an FM app, that would be a departure from previous practice.
The Nexus One shipped with the HTC Desire FM hardware intact, but no app.
The Nexus S did not have the Silicon Labs Si4709 FM chip that the Galaxy S did, and the Broadcom BCM4329 BT/WiFi/FM combination chip was not wired to allow FM.
This Galaxy Nexus apparently has a Broadcom BCM4330 BT/WiFi/FM combination chip like the Galaxy S2 has. But the S2 uses a dedicated Silicon Labs FM chip like the original "S1".
I doubt the BCM4330 will be wired for FM, so I'd guess there must be a Silicon Labs FM chip if the Galaxy Nexus supports FM.
I doubt Google would have created their own FM app, but who knows ? Would it be incorporated into the music app ? Would they use Samsung's FM app, perhaps modified ? Or have they decided their new music store sales will be improved if they neglect FM ?
And if there is an FM app in Google's Galaxy Nexus, can we presume that the source code will be open ?

Kess78 pointed me to Supercurio's doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a6808W2GwBkBX8x1YwaW3tYm3JSzkp87uQBNWY3TFmE/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1 .
He says : "FM Radio app is not present."
The only other FM reference there is for the Audio Codec:
Linux ALSA driver source code and its register definitions, describing basic audio hardware features available.
Main input/output type supported:
* Headphone
* Speaker
* Microphone
* Bluetooth
* Voice
* FM - digital
* SPDIF over HDMI
...
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Click to collapse
But IMO that doesn't prove anything. First, I don't think he has the exact source code for the kernel on the phone. I've heard the source code is expected to be released in about a month. But maybe I'm wrong, for the kernel code at least.
Second, there are "phantom" FM definitions for a number of Samsung Galaxy devices that don't have the FM chip: The Galaxy Tab, I think the Nexus S and the Galaxy S2 devices with no FM chip, such as AT&T and T-Mobile variants.
So my thinking now is that Google won't be releasing an FM app. Whether or not there's a Silicon Labs FM chip remains to be seen, but I suspect Google went cheap as with the Nexus S and there is no usable FM chip. But I'm just guessing for now.

I believe the Samsung Note spec states that it has an FM radio with RDS. It may be that they use similar chipset in the Galaxy Nexus and there is hope for FM Radio down the road sometime.

htc6500uk said:
I believe the Samsung Note spec states that it has an FM radio with RDS. It may be that they use similar chipset in the Galaxy Nexus and there is hope for FM Radio down the road sometime.
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A lot of Android phones, I'd say most of them, have bluetooth chips that include support for both sending and receiving FM.
The problem is just that Android lacks a framework and API for it. ST-Ericsson submitted a framework and example app for it to AOSP that has been worked on openly in Gerrit for months with input from several Google people. Unfortunately Gerrit is still down so we don't know the latest progress but it will hopefully be officially supported in the future. Until then, we will probably see FM support for it in CM like many other phones currently enjoy.

htc6500uk said:
I believe the Samsung Note spec states that it has an FM radio with RDS. It may be that they use similar chipset in the Galaxy Nexus and there is hope for FM Radio down the road sometime.
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MAYBE.
But the Galaxy S and Nexus S are almost the same phone. Yet the Galaxy S has the Silicon Labs FM chip, while the Nexus S does not.
The same is true for some variants of the Galaxy S2. The "canonical" Samsung Galaxy S2 has the Silicon Labs FM chip, while the AT&T and T-Mobile variants appear to have omitted it.
IMO, at least 2 reasons: (1) The phone is a bit cheaper if they don't install the FM chip, and (2) Carriers want us to use their expensive data plans for streaming.
I think Google also has some interest in keeping cheap, "old fashioned" airwave radio from us. Same for Apple.

blunden said:
A lot of Android phones, I'd say most of them, have bluetooth chips that include support for both sending and receiving FM.
The problem is just that Android lacks a framework and API for it. ST-Ericsson submitted a framework and example app for it to AOSP that has been worked on openly in Gerrit for months with input from several Google people. Unfortunately Gerrit is still down so we don't know the latest progress but it will hopefully be officially supported in the future. Until then, we will probably see FM support for it in CM like many other phones currently enjoy.
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I've spent most of this year developing an FM app for various Android devices. See my sig.
My impression is that the ST-Ericsson Android FM API is doomed. Nobody but them has committed to it. Broadcom is the biggest provider of FM combo chips and has said nothing, and continues to keep their specs secret.
Except for some Japan market Sharp models, can you show me ANY Android phone that supports FM transmit ? Stock or with developer mods ? I tried this on my TI based HTC Legend and it won't work. It needs the proper antenna (and perhaps power) connections, and I've found no phone that has that, likely because they were never designed to transmit, and were even designed to prevent transmit.
Even with a theoretically usable Bluetooth/WiFi/ FM combo chip (Broadcom or TI), if the power, antenna and audio connections are not in place, FM receive is impossible. There are several phones in my app incompatible list that never had an FM app, and that I and nobody else has ever been able to FM enable. IMO nobody will ever FM enable these without impractical hardware modifications.

so this does have an fm radio ! i seen where some say it doesn't and then I seen some that say it does, The unlocked version of the SGS2 has one but the AT&T didn't so this seems too
Technical Details:
Network
2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100
Camera - 5MP
Touch Screen - Yes
Weight - 135g
External Memory - No
Memory Slot - No
Bluetooth - Yes
Vibration - Yes
3G - Yes
GPS - Yes
Connectivity
GPRS Yes
EDGE Yes
3G HSDPA, 21 Mbps; HSUPA, 5.76 Mbps; LTE
WLAN Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n, dual-band, DLNA, Wi-Fi hotspot
Bluetooth Yes, v3.0 with A2DP
USB Yes, v2.0 microUSB
Additional Features
OS Android OS, v4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich)
CPU Dual-core 1.2GHz Cortex-A9 CPU, TI OMAP 4460 chipset
Messaging SMS(threaded view), MMS, Email, Push Mail, IM, RSS
Browser HTML
Radio Stereo FM radio with RDS
Games Yes
GPS Yes, with A-GPS support
Java Yes, via Java MIDP emulator
- NFC support
- Barometer sensor
- Digital compass
- Active noise cancellation with dedicated mic
- MP4/H.264/H.263 player
- MP3/WAV/eAAC+/AC3 player
- Organizer
- Image/video editor
- Document viewer
- Google Search, Maps, Gmail,
YouTube, Calendar, Google Talk, Picasa integration
- Adobe Flash support
- Voice memo/dial/commands
- Predictive text input

The specs you have listed are from GSMArena and "may" be wrong. The two people afaik who have the GN have said that there is no native FM radio app. At present we dont even know if the FM chip is even correctly wired inside to receive signals. If it is, then CM7 (or 8) will be able to support it.

mikereidis said:
I've spent most of this year developing an FM app for various Android devices. See my sig.
My impression is that the ST-Ericsson Android FM API is doomed. Nobody but them has committed to it. Broadcom is the biggest provider of FM combo chips and has said nothing, and continues to keep their specs secret.
Except for some Japan market Sharp models, can you show me ANY Android phone that supports FM transmit ? Stock or with developer mods ? I tried this on my TI based HTC Legend and it won't work. It needs the proper antenna (and perhaps power) connections, and I've found no phone that has that, likely because they were never designed to transmit, and were even designed to prevent transmit.
Even with a theoretically usable Bluetooth/WiFi/ FM combo chip (Broadcom or TI), if the power, antenna and audio connections are not in place, FM receive is impossible. There are several phones in my app incompatible list that never had an FM app, and that I and nobody else has ever been able to FM enable. IMO nobody will ever FM enable these without impractical hardware modifications.
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I think the API has potential still. A reason for not seeing any commits from other manufacturers for it is that it's still not finished and polished enough to be approved by Google. If it is, I think that we will see some more action by the other manufacturers. Also, in theory the Broadcom plugin could be developed by the community since it seems one of the MIUI guys have access to confidential information about commands etc. The basic functionality could probably be implemented by information from what is currently used in MIUI and CM.
I have not seen a phone that supports FM transmit, no. That would just be a bonus though. Why do you say they are specifically designed not to transmit FM? FM transmitting with limited power (to allow close range music transfer) is legal now in many countries. Also, I know for a fact that receiving works fine in many phones in CM so at least that functionality should be possible.

blunden said:
I think the API has potential still. A reason for not seeing any commits from other manufacturers for it is that it's still not finished and polished enough to be approved by Google. If it is, I think that we will see some more action by the other manufacturers.
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I went searching for this API last night. I couldn't find ANY sign of it except for the original posts and documentation from a year or so ago. Where is this Gerrit code ? Or any evidence of recent activity ?
AFAICT, Google has nothing to do with the SE FM API. Do you have any evidence otherwise ? NONE of the chip manufacturers has said ANYTHING about it either, AFAIK.
blunden said:
Also, in theory the Broadcom plugin could be developed by the community since it seems one of the MIUI guys have access to confidential information about commands etc. The basic functionality could probably be implemented by information from what is currently used in MIUI and CM.
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In theory ? Probably ? I really don't want to sound harsh, but I will speculate that you are just speculating about these things. And I think you are being too hopeful.
blunden said:
Why do you say they are specifically designed not to transmit FM? FM transmitting with limited power (to allow close range music transfer) is legal now in many countries.
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Yes, sure it's legal, with the proper FCC or whatever certifications. Those cost money, as does the engineering. The chip connections are specifically made to disable transmit. Thus, no software can enable FM transmit.
I'd be happy to learn I am wrong about any of the above. But until I see evidence, these are my current opinions based on my knowledge and experience.

mikereidis said:
I went searching for this API last night. I couldn't find ANY sign of it except for the original posts and documentation from a year or so ago. Where is this Gerrit code ? Or any evidence of recent activity ?
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When the kernel.org servers were taken down recently it also meant that AOSP and Gerrit that were both hosted there got taken down too. When Gerrit comes up again and if they keep all the history (that's not decided yet according to jbqueru) you can see for yourself. It used to be available on the following links.
https://review.source.android.com//#change,20506
https://review.source.android.com//#change,20507
https://review.source.android.com//#change,20508
https://review.source.android.com//#change,20509
I do have a limited part of the history from 20507 on gmail but I unsubscribed after a while because it was spamming my inbox. Here is a PDF of the parts I have. Some of it is missing though.
mikereidis said:
AFAICT, Google has nothing to do with the SE FM API. Do you have any evidence otherwise ? NONE of the chip manufacturers has said ANYTHING about it either, AFAIK.
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Google is involved as in being actively commenting and reviewing it in Gerrit at the time. They provided details of changes they wanted to see etc. and seemed to show some interest in the API. You are right though in that it was written entirely by ST-Ericsson. Also, it's not made by SE (meaning Sony Ericsson) but by ST-Ericsson, a partnership between ST-Microelectronics and Erocsson. No Sony involded.
mikereidis said:
In theory ? Probably ? I really don't want to sound harsh, but I will speculate that you are just speculating about these things. And I think you are being too hopeful.
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This part was speculation, yes. A third party plugin would not make it into any official builds at least. What I said about someone close to MIUI having some inside knowledge about what commands to send to the chip using hci_tool to enable FM receiving, RDS etc. was based on a claim they made themselves. That claim was send to me indirectly by a researcher from this group. It started with me submitting some comments on Gerrit. It started with me being approached by ST-Ericsson (Andreas Gustafsson specifically) asking if I could provide some more information and if I wanted to help them test it. I was later forwarded a message from the mentioned research group. After some emails back and forth it turned out they needed RDS which is currently not supported for the broadcom chip drivers used in CM. I therefor suggested that he should contact the MIUI guys to find out where they got the basis for the drivers they had written. That's when he told me a that a friend of xinyu had the datasheet for it but wouldn't share it.
mikereidis said:
Yes, sure it's legal, with the proper FCC or whatever certifications. Those cost money, as does the engineering. The chip connections are specifically made to disable transmit. Thus, no software can enable FM transmit.
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You might be right about it not being wired up for transmission of FM. Receiving works on most phones with compatible chips though as shown by it actually working in CM and MIUI.
mikereidis said:
I'd be happy to learn I am wrong about any of the above. But until I see evidence, these are my current opinions based on my knowledge and experience.
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Click to collapse
Now you at least know what I base my opinions on. Too bad Gerrit isn't up.

blunden said:
When the kernel.org servers were taken down recently it also meant that AOSP and Gerrit that were both hosted there got taken down too. When Gerrit comes up again and if they keep all the history (that's not decided yet according to jbqueru) you can see for yourself.
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Click to collapse
Thanks ! You are more familiar with this than I thought, so my apologies for assuming otherwise.
I'm surprised that 20 minutes of Google searching didn't reveal anything but a few year old documents and posts. Gerrit is still down ? Sheesh ! And that was the only place for somewhat open discussion ?
I've been working 60+ hour weeks on my Android FM app since February, and am trying to earn a meagre income from this project to keep it going indefinitely.
The reverse engineering I continue to do is VERY time consuming, generally has problems, and my app only runs on a fraction of the Android devices out there. So I am EXTREMELY interested in this API, if it has success.
I vaguely recall checking up on this API around August, probably via Gerritt. I had the impression it wasn't going anywhere very fast.
blunden said:
Google is involved as in being actively commenting and reviewing it in Gerrit at the time. They provided details of changes they wanted to see etc. and seemed to show some interest in the API.
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OK, from your PDF I see one Google email address (Dave Sparks), as well as Broadcom and TI. Interesting...
See my next post for more...

I had an interesting email from someone working for an org with interest in enabling OTA radio on more smartphones.
I posted the Q's and A's on my app thread for anyone interested: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19242542&postcount=1601
I think he and I agree that the biggest obstacles include the lack of usable, open APIs, the secrecy of the chip documents, and the manufacturers that specifically disable FM on many devices.

blunden said:
This part was speculation, yes. A third party plugin would not make it into any official builds at least. What I said about someone close to MIUI having some inside knowledge about what commands to send to the chip using hci_tool to enable FM receiving, RDS etc. was based on a claim they made themselves. That claim was send to me indirectly by a researcher from this group
It started with me submitting some comments on Gerrit. It started with me being approached by ST-Ericsson (Andreas Gustafsson specifically) asking if I could provide some more information and if I wanted to help them test it. I was later forwarded a message from the mentioned research group. After some emails back and forth it turned out they needed RDS which is currently not supported for the broadcom chip drivers used in CM. I therefor suggested that he should contact the MIUI guys to find out where they got the basis for the drivers they had written. That's when he told me a that a friend of xinyu had the datasheet for it but wouldn't share it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, as soon as I read the Broadcom chip header file for the MIUI/CM FM app, I was convinced the MIUI folk had some inside info. You don't get register defines like BC_REG_SPARE0 by reverse engineering alone.
My app runs on Broadcom and TI chips using what I've learned through hard rev eng work and what I've found on the net, including that header file. I support Samsung Silicon Labs and V4L too, but those "specs" are more open.
My app also supports RDS. AFAIK, neither the CM FM app, nor the MIUI app support RDS, so I think mine is the only 3rd party Android app that does on these chips. FMTwoo works w/ RDS on Galaxy S/Silicon Labs (as does mine).
And I think my app is the only one that communicates directly through the HCI UART. I had to do that because so many devices use Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth which doesn't support normal HCI access, AFAICT.
BTW, AFAIC, the MIUI and CM FM apps are now distinct. Some call the CM app MIUI, and About still says so. The MIUI FM app for Droid X is using Motorola and TI specific libraries. OTOH, the CM TI support is based on work that I did, via hcitool and (for my app direct access to HCI).
Last I looked the ST Ericsson API was VERY rich (IMO) with a lot of potential features, including handling Audio routing, which is a big problem I deal with regularly.
And yet the only multi-chip opensource Android FM code is the CM code, which is still pretty basic. Until not that long ago it only sent commands blindly, and couldn't get values such as the end frequency from a seek command.
So I feel that unless some individual or company "champions" it, I don't see much prospect for a community API implementation that goes beyond basics anytime soon. And it's not just the FM chips, it's the audio routing system for the phone, and sometimes other things, like antenna switches.
I don't think anybody is going to retrofit current phones with this API, except perhaps on specific aftermarket ROMs like MIUI and CM. There MAY be manufacturer support for this API on future phones.
I've considered writing some plugins myself, given my codebase and info. But for now I'm just waiting to see if this API goes anywhere, and if so I will support another API in my app, in addition to the 5 current APIs, possibly with a 6th (Broadcom proprietary) in the next several months.
I'd be very interested if you could give a name of someone who might be able to share more recent info on the progress of this API.
Thanks !

mikereidis said:
Thanks ! You are more familiar with this than I thought, so my apologies for assuming otherwise.
I'm surprised that 20 minutes of Google searching didn't reveal anything but a few year old documents and posts. Gerrit is still down ? Sheesh ! And that was the only place for somewhat open discussion ?
[...]
OK, from your PDF I see one Google email address (Dave Sparks), as well as Broadcom and TI. Interesting...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand. There are a lot of uninformed posts on XDA so it can serve to be sceptical sometimes.
Gerrit seems to be relatively poorly indexed on Google, if it's indexed at all. Yes, it's still down unfortunately. It makes me kind of sad since that was the only place I've found that you see and participate in open discussions between Google and the submitter. They usually respond if you make an informed comment or ask a relevant question. Unfortunately it's very hard to get in touch with developers to discuss improvements or report mistakes made in the non-open souce apps.
mikereidis said:
[...] I've considered writing some plugins myself, given my codebase and info. But for now I'm just waiting to see if this API goes anywhere, and if so I will support another API in my app, in addition to the 5 current APIs, possibly with a 6th (Broadcom proprietary) in the next several months.
I'd be very interested if you could give a name of someone who might be able to share more recent info on the progress of this API.
Thanks !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I contacted both people I've spoken to at ST-Ericsson about this to ask if there has been any progress as well as if I should refer you to them. I described your interest in this and how you can potentially help out. Unfortunately one of the addresses returned a "no such user" error but one of them seems to work fine still.
EDIT: I should also once again point out after reading the Q&A post you linked to that ST-Ericsson is entirely separate from Sony Ericsson and is therefor not affected by any Sony buy out as far as I know. The thing they have in common is that they both were spawned by Ericsson and then fusioned with competitors and that they are partly owned by Ericsson.

blunden said:
EDIT: I should also once again point out after reading the Q&A post you linked to that ST-Ericsson is entirely separate from Sony Ericsson and is therefor not affected by any Sony buy out as far as I know. The thing they have in common is that they both were spawned by Ericsson and then fusioned with competitors and that they are partly owned by Ericsson.
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Thanks ! Yes I sent an email to the one shown for Andreas Gustafsson and got that "550 No such user" bounceback. I hope that's just a spam issue and not a sign this API development is dead or struggling,
Yes the names and shifting ownerships etc. is confusing. I had thought that Sony-Ericcson was the only phone manufacturer to have committed to supporting this API.
So was it ST-Ericsson that made this commitment ? And they are a chip company, so how could they make such a commitment unless they have FM chips and were supporting the FM portion of the API, or the same for audio chips.
Basically I'm wondering if any hardware company has made any commitment to producing plugins for their hardware. Or is it all experimental at this point ? I can understand though that various Linux driver standards (such as V4L which also has a radio portion) have had little commitment from HW manufacturers, yet the "community" created drivers and apps for them.
"Geritt" naming is confusing too. CyanogenMod uses "Geritt" and they are up on their servers. So it's "Android Geritt" ?
-----
And yes, I could in theory help out. I could create plugins using my existing code. I guess this only makes sense if I open source the code.
Should I ? I don't know; There are pros and cons. It doesn't make much sense to me that I would do this for FM chips, while "rich" companies like Broadcom do nothing.
I could also do the app side, but there again, drivers are still needed. And it seems a bit more logical that the open source CM FM app be modified to use this API, or even the Qualcomm Code Aurora app.
Open source is great, but doesn't pay the bills unless some corporate sponsorship is involved.

mikereidis said:
Thanks ! Yes I sent an email to the one shown for Andreas Gustafsson and got that "550 No such user" bounceback. I hope that's just a spam issue and not a sign this API development is dead or struggling,
Yes the names and shifting ownerships etc. is confusing. I had thought that Sony-Ericcson was the only phone manufacturer to have committed to supporting this API.
So was it ST-Ericsson that made this commitment ? And they are a chip company, so how could they make such a commitment unless they have FM chips and were supporting the FM portion of the API, or the same for audio chips.
Basically I'm wondering if any hardware company has made any commitment to producing plugins for their hardware. Or is it all experimental at this point ? I can understand though that various Linux driver standards (such as V4L which also has a radio portion) have had little commitment from HW manufacturers, yet the "community" created drivers and apps for them.
"Geritt" naming is confusing too. CyanogenMod uses "Geritt" and they are up on their servers. So it's "Android Geritt" ?
-----
And yes, I could in theory help out. I could create plugins using my existing code. I guess this only makes sense if I open source the code.
Should I ? I don't know; There are pros and cons. It doesn't make much sense to me that I would do this for FM chips, while "rich" companies like Broadcom do nothing.
I could also do the app side, but there again, drivers are still needed. And it seems a bit more logical that the open source CM FM app be modified to use this API, or even the Qualcomm Code Aurora app.
Open source is great, but doesn't pay the bills unless some corporate sponsorship is involved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ST-Ericsson have chips with FM, as well as complete SoCs. I think Andreas might have either changed address or company but I spoke with a guy named Ulf as well and his address worked.
Gerrit is actually the name of the review system that is written by Google and released open source. CM started using it to improve the quality of the code in the project. Usually when people refer to Gerrit it should be fairly obvious which one they are talking about based on context. I was talking about AOSP Gerrit though.
I think the plan was to get other chip manufacturers interested in writing the plugins for it as that would allow them to market yet another feature of the chip to Android phone manufacturers. The chance of a phone manufacturer including functionality that requires them to write a whole new Android hardware API is highly unlikely, unless it's something like 3D screens that is very compelling for the marketing department. For that reason it's important to get the APIs implemented.
I did not mean that you should have to do an official implementation but rather that you might help them make it easier developers to test it. As you said, the manufacturers should not expect the users to implement these plugins. I just let them know you were interested about this and might have some valuable input.

I got an update from Ulf at ST-Ericsson. Work on the API has been moved to their branch in India. I should receive contact information for that team. Not that much has happened with it since AOSP Gerrit went down except for a few bugfixes.

blunden said:
I got an update from Ulf at ST-Ericsson. Work on the API has been moved to their branch in India. I should receive contact information for that team. Not that much has happened with it since AOSP Gerrit went down except for a few bugfixes.
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Thanks ! Yes, please let me/us know of any developments.
My first impression is that moving a project to a different country is not a good sign.
My second impression is that "not a good sign" is an understatement.
IMO, Life goes on with proprietary APIs and minor roles for ALSA and V4L.

Hi, any news about GN fm radio possibility?
bye

Are all the tags compatible with all phones??

I was wondering if all the NFC tags are compatible with all phones.. P.EX. i was about to get
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-NFC-S...130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231dcadbaa
10pcs for around 10$ but are they going to be compatible with xperia S which i own? Is this the same as the original tags included in the box?
Sorry if this is a NOOB question!!!!

cdrov said:
I was wondering if all the NFC tags are compatible with all phones.. P.EX. i was about to get
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-NFC-S...130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231dcadbaa
10pcs for around 10$ but are they going to be compatible with xperia S which i own? Is this the same as the original tags included in the box?
Sorry if this is a NOOB question!!!!
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Click to collapse
Those will work. They aren't the same.
The tags included with the phone are Mifare Ultralight based. These are NFC Forum Type 2 tags with 64 bytes of memory (48 writable).
The ones you have linked are Mifare Classic 1K. These contain 1K or memory (~716 writable). These are *not* NFC Forum type tags. All this means is that they aren't guaranteed to work with all future iterations of devices. Blackberries, for example, don't do so well with 1K tags. Android devices though don't seem to have any problem with them.

Thank you, i am going to get them, and i ll get back here to post the results

wich devices support NFC?
Hey guys do Samsung Galaxy S2 GT-i9100 support NFC? if yes why my device dont support the NFC?
I am on Resurrection Remix ics V2.2
do it disabled or what's the problem?

Won't work on the 9100
From what I have read only special made 9100s will work with NFC. The one that I know will work is the 9100P. So if you have that one you are in luck. The other ones I don't think will. Also the Note will work, but that is a whole other phone.

We need an NFC revolution!

Hey all!
I love NFC, just as much as you - seeing as you're reading this in the NFC section, I assume you use NFC regularly. I think it'll be fantastic when it's main stream, however for it to become a truly mainstream it needs more data type. just like you get vCards, URL's, SMS's etc - I think we need more help from Google, Microsoft and all the hardware vendors - along with the NFC forum itself - to help extend NFC's capabilities.
Sure we on XDA know how to extend it's abilities - either by hacking it or knowing which app lets you do a certain additional function. Unfortunately normal members of the public won't know about the XDA way or about the apps. For example the problem is you can write an NFC tag to connect to a a device to a particular wifi network, however you need the app that wrote the tag or another app that understands what to do with the tag for it to work. Now the problem is that your guests probably won't have the app installed, so you'll have to connect them manually or download the app over 2G/3G/4G and depending on network strength - just like my area - could take a long time!
What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first the wifi or the adoption of more standard / capabilities, across OS's / vendors ?
There are plenty more examples, but this is the most useful and self explanatory I can think of.
Please, please, please read my blog post about this and if you so wish, sign the petition, message the NFC Forum telling them to get their butt's into gear - message Google and the Android dev's do what you can to make NFC better and help it's adoption :good:
http://jaytongarnett.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/is-nfc-over-rated-we-need-nfc-20.html

TheLegendaryJay said:
Hey all!
I love NFC, just as much as you - seeing as you're reading this in the NFC section, I assume you use NFC regularly. I think it'll be fantastic when it's main stream, however for it to become a truly mainstream it needs more data type. just like you get vCards, URL's, SMS's etc - I think we need more help from Google, Microsoft and all the hardware vendors - along with the NFC forum itself - to help extend NFC's capabilities.
Sure we on XDA know how to extend it's abilities - either by hacking it or knowing which app lets you do a certain additional function. Unfortunately normal members of the public won't know about the XDA way or about the apps. For example the problem is you can write an NFC tag to connect to a a device to a particular wifi network, however you need the app that wrote the tag or another app that understands what to do with the tag for it to work. Now the problem is that your guests probably won't have the app installed, so you'll have to connect them manually or download the app over 2G/3G/4G and depending on network strength - just like my area - could take a long time!
What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first the wifi or the adoption of more standard / capabilities, across OS's / vendors ?
There are plenty more examples, but this is the most useful and self explanatory I can think of.
Please, please, please read my blog post about this and if you so wish, sign the petition, message the NFC Forum telling them to get their butt's into gear - message Google and the Android dev's do what you can to make NFC better and help it's adoption :good:
http://jaytongarnett.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/is-nfc-over-rated-we-need-nfc-20.html
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As much as it pains me to say it...we need Apple to implement native NFC support in iOS. I was really excited to see Passbook (or whatever its called) and was nearly positive this meant NFC support for the iPhone 5. Unfortunately, not this go round. It's ok though, wait a couple iterations of iOS/iPhone and NFC will finally be deemed acceptable for the public...magically...revolutionarily.

I know, and I think why the heck should we wait? Apple might only bring NFC with the iPhone 7. What's the harm in trying to change it now?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

I haven't used it much, but I am for interested. I guess I need a better understanding of its purpose and how I can use it in everyday situations. I already use wifi-direct for a bunch of transferring.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app

booyakasha said:
As much as it pains me to say it...we need Apple to implement native NFC support in iOS. I was really excited to see Passbook (or whatever its called) and was nearly positive this meant NFC support for the iPhone 5. Unfortunately, not this go round. It's ok though, wait a couple iterations of iOS/iPhone and NFC will finally be deemed acceptable for the public...magically...revolutionarily.
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The fanboys say that apple is afraid of NFC till they can develop a version of their own that is "Secure"...

Souler19 said:
The fanboys say that apple is afraid of NFC till they can develop a version of their own that is "Secure"...
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Yeah, they need something the can control - they need to devise a way to make money out of it otherwise it's not in their interest.
I know this is XDA Developers and we can make NFC do what we want, but we all have people in our lives who won't even use NFC because they don't know about it or know what it can do which is why I'd like us to make a change at the OS level on behalf of all of our non-technical friends and family. Let's get the big players like Google, Microsoft and anyone else that's already using NFC in their products to want to make a change - for Grandma

Lets be honest guys, the majority of people around us have iPhones, mainly 4s's. Imagine if all of them had NFC and we could all play nicely sharking playlists and sending phone numbers to eachother?

nfc
TheLegendaryJay said:
Yeah, they need something the can control - they need to devise a way to make money out of it otherwise it's not in their interest.
I know this is XDA Developers and we can make NFC do what we want, but we all have people in our lives who won't even use NFC because they don't know about it or know what it can do which is why I'd like us to make a change at the OS level on behalf of all of our non-technical friends and family. Let's get the big players like Google, Microsoft and anyone else that's already using NFC in their products to want to make a change - for Grandma
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NFC is the next big thing just give it time. once it rolls out. more in new devices we shall see. it's development grow more and any phone worth it's salt will have to have it

I agree - a revolution. Right now, when I mention NFC to most people they give me that "HUH???" expression. Then I have to explain what it is and then I have to give them examples of what it can do. Seems like almost no one knows what it is or has any idea all the cool things you can do with it.
What we need is a Samsung or Google or HTC to run a commercial that features people using NFC - with tags to automate stuff at home/work, with Google Wallet to pay for stuff, other things. Then the average person would be like "oh I know what that is - I saw it on a commercial"
Unfortunately right now it seems like it's just us tech geeks who know about it...

hollywoodfrodo said:
I agree - a revolution. Right now, when I mention NFC to most people they give me that "HUH???" expression. Then I have to explain what it is and then I have to give them examples of what it can do. Seems like almost no one knows what it is or has any idea all the cool things you can do with it.
What we need is a Samsung or Google or HTC to run a commercial that features people using NFC - with tags to automate stuff at home/work, with Google Wallet to pay for stuff, other things. Then the average person would be like "oh I know what that is - I saw it on a commercial"
Unfortunately right now it seems like it's just us tech geeks who know about it...
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Dont call us geeks;p j/k
Well, we've already got a very usefull feature for NFC like very fast files transfer, the only what we need is more phones that support it. It will be as famous as bluetooth i think hopefully
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app

gallardo5 said:
Dont call us geeks;p j/k
Well, we've already got a very usefull feature for NFC like very fast files transfer, the only what we need is more phones that support it. It will be as famous as bluetooth i think hopefully
Sent from my LT26i using xda app-developers app
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How much data can actually be transfered via NFC? I always thought the bandwidth for transfers was rather small, which is why most items transfered are under 144 bytes.
For larger transfers wouldn't using NFC for the handshake then Bluetooth for data transfers be better?
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

I have to admit I am one of those people who do not know about its capabilites. I know what it is and have it activated on my phone, but what can I do with it...I do not know besides I think you can tranfer pictures, phone numbers and stuff.
Can someone maybe explain it in more detail and tell us about its uses? Maybe I should have done a search about NFC (Near Field Communications) before I wrote this.
P.S. I wish more people would put the acronym meaning after the acronym, like I did above, in this forum...ooh that gives me an idea!! (light in head goes off!! lol)

Psichi said:
How much data can actually be transfered via NFC? I always thought the bandwidth for transfers was rather small, which is why most items transfered are under 144 bytes.
For larger transfers wouldn't using NFC for the handshake then Bluetooth for data transfers be better?
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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I cannot tell you if there is a limit in filesize, but since the biggest NFC tags you can buy at the moment (afaik) are 8kb, anything beyond 1mb is most likely to take to long to be economic.

Bluetooth 4.0 issue!! please star this to get googles attention to fix this!!

http://code.google.com/p/android/is...rs&colspec=ID Type Status Owner Summary Stars
We need bluetooth 4.0 to be activated...too many products are becoming available that use this and we are not able to. Its not just us galaxy nexus ownners either..its even the new nexus and galaxy notes. Pass this along so we can get as many people to make this a priority for google to fix!

newtonfb said:
http://code.google.com/p/android/is...rs&colspec=ID Type Status Owner Summary Stars
We need bluetooth 4.0 to be activated...too many products are becoming available that use this and we are not able to. Its not just us galaxy nexus ownners either..its even the new nexus and galaxy notes. Pass this along so we can get as many people to make this a priority for google to fix!
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Too bad. Google never gonna do it, good luck finding devs that will, it's not worth the frustration.

gnustomp said:
Too bad. Google never gonna do it, good luck finding devs that will, it's not worth the frustration.
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Howd you know that? Any sources?

DasEtwas said:
Howd you know that? Any sources?
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If Google wanted BT 4 on the phone they would have released it with it. They aren't found going to this for a phone they'll be dropping support for soon anyway.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Why? I mean honestly...why? What devices out there truly support the full advantages of Bluetooth 4.0 (meaning BLE) that you would actually use on your phone? Name us 5 actual, reasonable, affordable, and available devices that would interest the community which support BT4.0+BLE. Because I would love to know. (and no offense but heart monitors don't count)
To my understanding BT4.0 only brings BLE if the chip used supports BLE. This is an optional feature; not just automatically included. Remember...there is a difference between a device having Bluetooth 4.0 and having Bluetooth 4.0 BLE. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
I've read a couple different articles and posts going back and forth on whether or not the chip inside the Galaxy Nexus truly supports BT 4.0+BLE or is just BT 4.0 compatible without BLE capabilities. And even if it does...odds are the next Nexus device will run Android 5.0 with full BT4.0+BLE support (pure speculation on my part, just running the odds). I would rather Google engineers be working on that - than a phone that was meant for developers....not actually a flagship device as everyone wants to claim. (This is my opinion on the matter)
Just because a device has the markings of Bluetooth 4.0 doesn't mean it automatically get's all the advantages of BLE. The device must specifically state that it supports BLE. And so far, I haven't really seen anything on the market that supports BLE that makes me go:
"Holy crap, I need this product...we must have this on our phone now!"
This same marketing scheme was addressed with BT 3.0 and 3.0+HS (AKA 3.1). Everyone slapped on BT 3.0 numbers but didn't include 3.0+HS on the product. Creates product hype and people will buy it without doing research.

Why? So that we can play with devices like this:
http://www.indiegogo.com/meterplug/x/1655370?c=home
sola fide said:
Why? I mean honestly...why? What devices out there truly support the full advantages of Bluetooth 4.0 (meaning BLE) that you would actually use on your phone? Name us 5 actual, reasonable, affordable, and available devices that would interest the community which support BT4.0+BLE. Because I would love to know. (and no offense but heart monitors don't count)
This same marketing scheme was addressed with BT 3.0 and 3.0+HS (AKA 3.1). Everyone slapped on BT 3.0 numbers but didn't include 3.0+HS on the product. Creates product hype and people will buy it without doing research.
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id628 said:
Why? So that we can play with devices like this:
http://www.indiegogo.com/meterplug/x/1655370?c=home
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Notice it says Bluetooth 4.0....and does not mention BLE. Meaning it's backwards compatible with Bluetooth 3.0 and the differences without BLE are minimal for this type of device. So....basically no need for 4.0 implementation on the Galaxy Nexus to use this toy.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Yet another one is the Motes system: http://igg.me/at/motes/x/1655370
Another one is all the new automatic door locks. The list is growing quickly if you look at Indiegogo and Kickstarter...
sola fide said:
Why? I mean honestly...why? What devices out there truly support the full advantages of Bluetooth 4.0 (meaning BLE) that you would actually use on your phone? Name us 5 actual, reasonable, affordable, and available devices that would interest the community which support BT4.0+BLE. Because I would love to know. (and no offense but heart monitors don't count)
To my understanding BT4.0 only brings BLE if the chip used supports BLE. This is an optional feature; not just automatically included. Remember...there is a difference between a device having Bluetooth 4.0 and having Bluetooth 4.0 BLE. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
I've read a couple different articles and posts going back and forth on whether or not the chip inside the Galaxy Nexus truly supports BT 4.0+BLE or is just BT 4.0 compatible without BLE capabilities. And even if it does...odds are the next Nexus device will run Android 5.0 with full BT4.0+BLE support (pure speculation on my part, just running the odds). I would rather Google engineers be working on that - than a phone that was meant for developers....not actually a flagship device as everyone wants to claim. (This is my opinion on the matter)
Just because a device has the markings of Bluetooth 4.0 doesn't mean it automatically get's all the advantages of BLE. The device must specifically state that it supports BLE. And so far, I haven't really seen anything on the market that supports BLE that makes me go:
"Holy crap, I need this product...we must have this on our phone now!"
This same marketing scheme was addressed with BT 3.0 and 3.0+HS (AKA 3.1). Everyone slapped on BT 3.0 numbers but didn't include 3.0+HS on the product. Creates product hype and people will buy it without doing research.
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id628 said:
Yet another one is the Motes system: http://igg.me/at/motes/x/1655370
Another one is all the new automatic door locks. The list is growing quickly if you look at Indiegogo and Kickstarter...
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Yes, 6 months later the Indiegogo and Kickstarter projects are beginning. And the list is beginning to grow. However, there is still no confirmation, that I've seen, that the SGN has 4.0+BLE. We've only seen that it has a chip with 4.0 capability. Without BLE support, the access to 4.0 won't be as advantageous for all these new devices as some might think.
Plus, how long will it take for these new jump-start companies/devices to be funded, and complete, and available? It took almost a year for the Pebble watch and CooKoo watch to finally be released to investors. This Fall the SGN will be 2 years old. Around the corner is another rumored Nexus Device. How much manpower is Google going to actually devote to the software development in the Galaxy Nexus in future upgrade releases? I hope it will be there; but probably not a lot. The focus right now is the Nexus 4 and whatever the next gen Nexus device is. I'm not arguing against the addition of 4.0 (and hopefully 4.0+BLE) software upgrades to the SGN; but I think users making a demand for it at this point is a little over the top.
If Android 4.3 does indeed have the support for BT 4.0 as rumored you'll find out if it actually has BLE or not. If it doesn't...you're just gaining the newest Bluetooth stack without any of the power savings (maybe some slight power savings)....which might (or might not) work with all these new creations.

Vulkan api support?

Any word on when Vulkan drivers might be updated/ enabled on this device?

Bruce lee roy said:
Any word on when Vulkan drivers might be updated/ enabled on this device?
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Good luck getting info on that. I've posted on here and on the nexus 6p forums and never got much. From what I gathered the device is capable it's the games need to be updated for that device. The drivers were native in 7.0. none if the developers are using the API currently. I believe one if the main game engines is being updated to use the API so once it's done more games will have it

Smallsmx3 said:
Good luck getting info on that. I've posted on here and on the nexus 6p forums and never got much. From what I gathered the device is capable it's the games need to be updated for that device. The drivers were native in 7.0. none if the developers are using the API currently. I believe one if the main game engines is being updated to use the API so once it's done more games will have it
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Thanks for the info. It's unfortunate that we'll have to wait because Vulkan support was one of the .ain reasons for me getting this device.

Bruce lee roy said:
Thanks for the info. It's unfortunate that we'll have to wait because Vulkan support was one of the .ain reasons for me getting this device.
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Yeah it seems like only the gs7 has a small library it games with vulkan support

Bruce lee roy said:
Thanks for the info. It's unfortunate that we'll have to wait because Vulkan support was one of the .ain reasons for me getting this device.
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If you hear anything post it here. Vainglory has a beta running but for some reason our device isn't compatible

The somewhat snide response I just received from support:
Thank you for the message!
Due to beta state of the Vulkan game version, it has lower priority than the normal game version, so it is not as updated. In other words, we do not know when it will be available for more devices and for now, please use the regular version.
Best regards,
BlissfulApple
This is the message I sent:
I recently became the owner of a Google Pixel XL and was disappointed to find out that my device is not listed for VG: Vulkan Beta ready. Please send me a working apk or inform me on how/when my device will be allowed to participate in beta.

Bruce lee roy said:
The somewhat snide response I just received from support:
Thank you for the message!
Due to beta state of the Vulkan game version, it has lower priority than the normal game version, so it is not as updated. In other words, we do not know when it will be available for more devices and for now, please use the regular version.
Best regards,
BlissfulApple
This is the message I sent:
I recently became the owner of a Google Pixel XL and was disappointed to find out that my device is not listed for VG: Vulkan Beta ready. Please send me a working apk or inform me on how/when my device will be all owed to participate in beta.
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I don't think it's anyone's priority since N is so scarce. It's Google's fault for not forcing the devs to utilize the newest APIs when they become available. My guess is it will be next year or two years when the API gets adopted. Well be on the pixel 3 by that point

Smallsmx3 said:
I don't think it's anyone's priority since N is so scarce. It's Google's fault for not forcing the devs to utilize the newest APIs when they become available. My guess is it will be next year or two years when the API gets adopted. Well be on the pixel 3 by that point
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It's a lie!!! The drivers will be released for me favorite titles within the next couple of months... At least that's the story in going with.