Hey,
So I keep hearing a lot of complaints that the Note 4 processor does not support 64bit (nor does Android 4.4), however, why does that really matter. The Note 4 has 3GB of RAM, not 4GB of RAM, therefore 64bit is not required.
Regards
Well, it's more that the chipset does support 64bit. 64bit is coming to Android, I believe the upcoming version.
The big deal is you can process more information at once on 64bit versus 32bit at one time; actually double. It really doesn't have do with ram. Although ram can be important for storing information to be processed or has been processed. I don't know if Android has the ram issue like Windows does with 32bit versus 64bit; I would look to Linux for an indicator.
This will be more important when we're getting true eight core mobile devices. Real speed doesn't come clock speeds, it's more about the numbers and buses. This is all first semester or basic computer classes everyone has to take in college.
Even though 64-bit is the next big step in smartphone evolution you wont see a night and day difference right out of the gate. The OS, the apps, the UI elements all need to be written and optimized for that architecture. The Note 5 and the S6 will almost certainly have 64-bit processors but that does not mean that suddenly the Note 4 and S5 will be obsolete overnight. If you upgrade every 2 years then the Note 4 should hold its own during that two years.
If the nexus 6 won't come with 64 bit then it's not that important for android right now in the early stages in converting to 64 bit. Android L is just a building block for what's to come.
---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------
lovekeiiy said:
Well, it's more that the chipset does support 64bit. 64bit is coming to Android, I believe the upcoming version.
The big deal is you can process more information at once on 64bit versus 32bit at one time; actually double. It really doesn't have do with ram. Although ram can be important for storing information to be processed or has been processed. I don't know if Android has the ram issue like Windows does with 32bit versus 64bit; I would look to Linux for an indicator.
This will be more important when we're getting true eight core mobile devices. Real speed doesn't come clock speeds, it's more about the numbers and buses. This is all first semester or basic computer classes everyone has to take in college.
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Click to collapse
No that's not even close to correct.
32 bit and 64 bit have to do with how much memory the processor can address in a cycle. The Amount of memory a 64bit processor can address is about 4billion times as much physical memory. 4gigs is the cap for 32 bit. Which is fine for most applications. I have not seen one smart phone that has that much ram, so at the moment there is no inherent benefit to 64bit processing. Just because the memory addressing capability is there, doesn't mean we can or are going to use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgiMzKb8dD0
You really won't see a benefit from 64bit in any device until they start using > 4gigs of ram
Not even an issue until the next, or even the next next, upgrade.... Let the community catch up.
Unless you need to be on the cutting edge... Like the saps that bought into 4k with the lack of 4k programming.
spodemaster said:
---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------No that's not even close to correct.
32 bit and 64 bit have to do with how much memory the processor can address in a cycle. .... at the moment there is no inherent benefit to 64bit processing. Just because the memory addressing capability is there, doesn't mean we can or are going to use it. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
32 bit vs 64 bit is about bus between the CPU and RAM. This is first semester computer science topic. Everything you talked about is about how it's implemented. I don't know why 4GB of RAM is the minimum of RAM for 64bit systems. I assume it's about efficiencies over 32bit systems. But nonetheless, it's about how much data can be transferred to the CPU at one time.
It's only a matter of time before mobiles devices have 4GB of RAM.
IYet, we all agree, it makes little difference until the applications, and OS, are written and designed to make use of the 64bit architecture.
lovekeiiy said:
The big deal is you can process more information at once on 64bit versus 32bit at one time; actually double. It really doesn't have do with ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really does have to do with RAM though, for a couple of reasons. First, having a larger integer size doesn't really equate to processing things faster in most everyday applications. If you were working with really large numbers it might, but in general it's not really a big draw. Numbers under ~4 billion will process just as quickly on a 32 bit machine as on a 64 bit one. The big draw of 64 bit is definitely being able to address more memory.
Here's the second reason 64 bit matters in regards to RAM: in 64 bit, everything is bigger. Your pointers in memory are now 64 bits long instead of 32 bits (taking twice the space). So are integers. When an application that was 32 bit is recompiled to 64 bit, you can as much as double the amount of RAM is uses while running, even if nothing else changes.
So for me personally, if I don't have more than 4 GB of RAM on my phone, I actually don't want 64 bit processors or applications, because the RAM that I do have is going to be used up more quickly by the larger pointers and integers being stored. I'd personally want to stay away from it until I have a phone with more than 4 GB of RAM, because it's not until you hit that point that 64 bit makes much sense.
lovekeiiy said:
I don't know why 4GB of RAM is the minimum of RAM for 64bit systems. I assume it's about efficiencies over 32bit systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, it's because 64 bit applications can take as much as double the amount of RAM when they are running due to those larger pointer sizes. If you have a small amount of RAM, you do not want to waste it holding large 64 bit numbers. You want to wait until you have an actual need (such as having more than 4 GB of memory, which is the maximum a 32 bit system can address) before you make the jump to 64 bit. Otherwise, you lose more than you gain.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you about the need for RAM in the 64bit architecture. I'm not a programmer, and I know even less about low level programming, which is where more your arguments hold.
With that said, you have implied that it's possible to have 64bit system with less than 4GB of ram. You explained there would probably be more inefficiencies than the benefits gained from being able to process more data at once or at least the system would not run in the most beneficial ways for the end user.
Thus, I still hold big deal about 64bit system is about the amount of information that can be processed at one time. In tech today, it's not really about clock speeds any more. It's about the number of cores and bus size. RAM is important, but not they key, in that it's needed to supported these keys.
In this debate, obviously we may be arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg. We could have more than 4GB RAM in a 32 bit system, but what benefits does it hold? Yet, without the RAM, what benefits can be had from a 64bit system.
Personally, I would like to see a nice otco-core device. I do find mobile chipsets quite fascinating in what they have and can do versus PC counterparts. I just wish, in general, they put a little more GPU power in general in the mobile chips like NVivia does.
lovekeiiy said:
Personally, I would like to see a nice otco-core device. I do find mobile chipsets quite fascinating in what they have and can do versus PC counterparts. I just wish, in general, they put a little more GPU power in general in the mobile chips like NVivia does.
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Snapdragon next yr will release an octo core 64 bit. The processor for the note 5 will most likely be the sd 810, octo core,64 bit + 4 gb of Samsung's newest ram. Also the screen will probably be 2k again, but even more perfected.
ryanalan82 said:
Snapdragon next yr will release an octo core 64 bit. The processor for the note 5 will most likely be the sd 810, octo core,64 bit + 4 gb of Samsung's newest ram. Also the screen will probably be 2k again, but even more perfected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll most likely skip the Note 5, but will probably go Note 6, assuming something, I find, better doesn't come along. I could always use some more screen real estate and some true multi window action like the desktop/laptop OS gives, What can I say, I'm quirky in my demands, and maybe, just maybe, unrealistic is useful features for Joe Public.
Related
I tried searching for this one and couldn't come up with any good answers on here, but it's something that I've been wondering since I got the G2. I've noticed that no matter what rom I use, the total memory in settings>about phone never shows up more than 400mb. I can't be sure of the exact amount for all the roms I've tried in the past, but I remember thinking it peculiar, although thinking about the internal memory and the fact that it was advertised as 4gb and only registers as 1.2gb, I was thinking maybe this is a similar thing?
Sent from my G2 running GingerMex Ghost Chili
Gwanatu said:
I tried searching for this one and couldn't come up with any good answers on here, but it's something that I've been wondering since I got the G2. I've noticed that no matter what rom I use, the total memory in settings>about phone never shows up more than 400mb. I can't be sure of the exact amount for all the roms I've tried in the past, but I remember thinking it peculiar, although thinking about the internal memory and the fact that it was advertised as 4gb and only registers as 1.2gb, I was thinking maybe this is a similar thing?
Sent from my G2 running GingerMex Ghost Chili
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get a better phone, this is normal.
Get a good one damnit
meXdroid Ghost Chilli
The rest is used up by the operating system.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Normal. My mt4g never shows more than 500mb after a fresh reboot.
Sent from prison
tackleberry said:
Normal. My mt4g never shows more than 500mb after a fresh reboot.
Sent from prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's normal to..
Look at this example
You buy a computer for 400 and in order to play crysis you need to have 2000 total dollars.
The 400 is for the computer, 50 of that is for crysis and the remaining 1550 is used to increase your computers everything just to freaking play that graphic hog game..
Okay better example
You eat a twinkie, it looks good at first, the commercial urges you to buy it. Even the box makes it look good, but once you eat it you realize your stomach hurts and it was a waste of time buying something that is so fattening you wish you hadn't.. bloatware much?
Read the details here HTC Vision XDA wiki
melodicjunkie said:
That's normal to..
Look at this example
You buy a computer for 400 and in order to play crysis you need to have 2000 total dollars.
The 400 is for the computer, 50 of that is for crysis and the remaining 1550 is used to increase your computers everything just to freaking play that graphic hog game..
Okay better example
You eat a twinkie, it looks good at first, the commercial urges you to buy it. Even the box makes it look good, but once you eat it you realize your stomach hurts and it was a waste of time buying something that is so fattening you wish you hadn't.. bloatware much?
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Click to collapse
what? how does this at all help anyone understand this.
martonikaj said:
what? how does this at all help anyone understand this.
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Click to collapse
i think he's just saying that the OS is using up the other resources
compare it with a sony PSP.. since it doesn't run a lot of programs in the background, it can play graphics intensive games with such low clocked cpu and less ram compared to mobile phones
BTW i know you are talking about the physical memory but just wanted to bring it out there
you can check the link given by Innocent Devil and check the "The Missing 2GB" part. it explains it there
krizz07 said:
BTW i know you are talking about the physical memory but just wanted to bring it out there
you can check the link given by Innocent Devil and check the "The Missing 2GB" part. it explains it there
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to do with the "missing 2GB".
The question is about RAM, not storage.
Most relevant example;
You buy a new computer with an integrated video adapter. You go into the BIOS configuration program and it has an option to change the amount of RAM being allocated to the GPU -- 64 MB, 128 MB, 256 MB, or 512 MB. You have 4 GB total and set the GPU to 512 MB. When you boot into your operating system, you only see 3.5 GB. Where is the missing 0.5 GB? Its allocated to the GPU.
In addition to allocating a whole bunch to the GPU, these phones are actually TWO COMPUTERS (with two separate CPUs) that run two different operating systems concurrently. The first one is the RADIO system, responsible for messing with the wireless. The second one is the APPLICATION system, which runs the user operating system and interface (Android). They share a common pool of RAM, so some of it is allocated to the RADIO, some is allocated to the GPU (and other media components), and only what remains is available to Android.
Thanks for those of you that gave me good answers! This clears things right up!
dhkr234 said:
This has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to do with the "missing 2GB".
The question is about RAM, not storage.
Most relevant example;
You buy a new computer with an integrated video adapter. You go into the BIOS configuration program and it has an option to change the amount of RAM being allocated to the GPU -- 64 MB, 128 MB, 256 MB, or 512 MB. You have 4 GB total and set the GPU to 512 MB. When you boot into your operating system, you only see 3.5 GB. Where is the missing 0.5 GB? Its allocated to the GPU.
In addition to allocating a whole bunch to the GPU, these phones are actually TWO COMPUTERS (with two separate CPUs) that run two different operating systems concurrently. The first one is the RADIO system, responsible for messing with the wireless. The second one is the APPLICATION system, which runs the user operating system and interface (Android). They share a common pool of RAM, so some of it is allocated to the RADIO, some is allocated to the GPU (and other media components), and only what remains is available to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting, didn't know about the dual OS thing. Makes sense though, and I figured that was the case but just wanted a sure fire answer. Thanks a lot!!
dhkr234 said:
This has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to do with the "missing 2GB".
The question is about RAM, not storage.
oopsie you're right.. i guess the PSP comparison is the one applicable then haha
he's absolutely right, the other ram is for the OS itself and the rest is for your other apps. this makes the phone silky smooth when running tasks unlike my touch pro 2 before, which has a very low ram plus all the "memory leakage" but it still has the best keyboard
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Click to collapse
OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Yes, the maximum amount of ram a 32bit processor can use is 4GB where a 64bit processor can handle more than 18 billion GB of ram (though you're not going to get that in your home pc, let alone your phone) . The big difference is the amount of bits per second the processor can calculate. It can make a huge difference if you take advantage of the ability to use more ram. As of right now Android for the most part is a little behind as far as the 64 bit processor goes but I believe there are already a couple phones that just came out with a 64 bit processor including the note 4 with the Exynos 7 Octa processor. Another thing to note is that Android version 5.0 "lollipop" supports a 64bit processor, so 64bit Android devices will be coming fast and furious. Once they begin to be more common Android phones will quickly pass Apple again in this area because they will take advantage of the ability to use more ram where as Apple has had the 64 bit processor now for a while and is still only using 1GB of ram in the iPhone 6.
Sent from my SM-N910V using XDA Free mobile app
sprintuser1977 said:
OK, the big deal the last year was Apple pulling out a 64 bit chip.
Android is yet to catch up really.
My question is, are the differences between 32 bit and 64 bit huge or more a advertising gimmick?
The reason I ask is I read an article on an android site that was trying to say the biggest deal of going to 64 bit was the ability to handle over 4 gigs of ram.
I prefer objective answers so is this correct or is there a lot more to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 with what Thrill3d said. Another thing to keep in mind is that a 64bit processor and architecture doesn't in and of itself make for a faster device that the user can tell/see. The firmware and software (apps) that run on that device must be 64bit also before the user sees a notifiable difference. I'm not aware of any 64bit Android apps available right now and that's because there are no 64bit Android phones available in the US. You can run a 32bit apps (for the most part) on a 64bit systems, but you can't run a 64bit app on a 32bit system.
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
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Click to collapse
If I'm not mistaken, most Android phones had 2gigs prior to 2012, but I won't swear to that.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I don't understand the rationale, except maybe its a target price "thing". But hay, how much does 1 gig cost?
sprintuser1977 said:
Thanks guys. It is crazy to me that the Iphone 6 has a 64 bit chip and then throw in an anemic 1 gig of Ram.
If I am not mistaken Android had phones with 2 gigs in 2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Redapple63 said:
I think the rational is that Apple has far better software to hardware integration because of the closed eco system. Whether or not that translates to better performance is highly suggestive. My note 4 hauls ass and is a beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone has to only do the same thing it did for the past 5 years. It's basically been the same phone and same os(minus minor changes). I'm not surprised it only needs a gig, it can't multi-task.
As for 64 bit. For Android it's going to change everything. Not just amount of ram. There is a new type of internal memory coming out called ufs that is no longer going to be an emmc variant. It's going to be similar to the solid state flash memory in ssd hard drives. The real advantages are it's more than 2x-4x faster than the fastest emmc(depending on the ufs version) . And the real beauty is that it can read and write at the same time. Emmc can't.
There is also better and faster ram technology that will be available.
But just like 64bit did for the pc it allows for better multitasking which is where android shines.
-Wizzle
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Yash24 said:
Is there any chance of 64bit OS on future official major updates?
OR
Are there any developers who are working to make a 64 bit OS ROM for the Z Play?
Though the hardware is 64 bit but does the Z Play have ability to run 64 bit OS or it can run only 32 bit OS because of 3GB RAM.
Help will be appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Yash24 said:
In simple words, it can't run 64 bit os?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you figured that out already, it takes the fun out of researching and learning. (Google in your fiend)
If you would have just gotten a "No" I am sure it would have generated more questions, so I thought I nip it in the butt and give a full explanation.
What benefit​ are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
Jimi Mack said:
The mobile industry moved to 64-bit processors a couple of years back.
So, pretty much all new mobile processors will be 64-bit, and that includes the Snapdragon 625.
However, as you would be aware, the key benefit of having 64-bit processor is to allow a larger address space, and by extension a larger RAM.
However, the Snapdragon 625 employs a 1x32 LPDDR3 interface at 933MHz. Therefore, the theoretical maximum RAM that it can support is up to 4MHz
In conclusion, while you may have a processor capable of 64-bit execution, the RAM is limited to a max of 4GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
Zeljko1234 said:
What benefit​ are you expecting from 64bit OS? More is not always faster or better
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vivebatu said:
Hi , pardon my ignorance, but iOS runs 64 bit with 2 GB RAM, so technically should be possible to enable 64 bit in 3GB RAM?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
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Click to collapse
vivebatu said:
More than performance, it is future updates ..Both iOS and android will become 64 bit only soon..Android O may only be 64 bit , who knows ..not sure if we will get an update then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
OK, from that point makes sense. Even I don't think that will switch just over night/release.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------
Jimi Mack said:
It Is not the size but the type of ram used on the MZP from what I read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, RAM should not be 32bit/64bit. I mean, could be from addressing perspective but would be weird to use 64bit CPU, especially SoC, without ability to address memory the same way. But on another hand, could be. Qualcomm may have generic CPU design and pack with cheaper memory...
Interesting discussion, indeed
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
OrBy said:
While this does apply to everything - 64 bit OS's are generally targeted to systems with 4GB of RAM or more.
The 64 bit instructions/code are actually larger as well as they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility.
What this means is that while running a 64 bit OS >may< allow a phone to run faster, do more, address more memory, etc - it NEEDS more RAM and storage to be able to do this effectively.
So if you did run 64 bit on the phone - it could be slower since 3GB of RAM may not have enough memory to keep up.
I would have to assume that Motorola/Lenovo may have done some testing on this before making their choice - it's not like the 32 bit OS was cheaper then the 64 bit OS. (but RAM does cost...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Yash24 said:
Yea!
The worst thing is that there is still no methods available to run 64 bit app in 32 bit device or OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a nightmare, like trying to put a scooter engine into a semi - sure you could do it but it would be pointless if you wanted to get anything done.
Agree with your previous post except "they still need to contain a copy of the 32 bit code for backwards compatibility". AFAIK, 64bit apps do not have 32bit code. That would be crazy, each application will be more than double in size. Rest is true, CPU instructions are usually larger, registers have double size... I remember very well when desktop switched to 64bit. People got excited, everyone thought that more is better but depends of the app, could be opposite.
64 bits make sense when big numbers have to be processed. Very simplified example, 8bit CPU can do the math of bigger number than 255 (2^8, 0-255) but has to do that in more steps, more instructions, more access to the primary memory... 16bit CPU can do the math of up to 65535 (2^16) with, let say, one instruction. For bigger numbers, again the same approach with subroutine. You got the point, more bit CPU, faster for bigger numbers.
But 32bits was more than enough for years on desktop, 64bit came and used mainly to address more than 4GB even 32bit CPU can address more than 4GB as well. Not as simple and fast as native 64bit but it can. Even 8bit CPU can address more. Early 8bit computers (ZX Spectrum Commodore 64...) were 8bit and it was normal to address up to 64kB (don't laugh, 64 kilo bytes ). In some variant even more, 128kB or more.
After all, question is do we have to process such huge numbers on the phones? Usually not. Even on desktop, usually not. Yes, games, virtual reality and such need a lot of processing but that's done on RISC based GPU part.
64 bit SoC and OS is mainly gimmick.
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
mahdif62 said:
The biggest benefit to running 64-bit OS on MZP would be the ability to use the new Google Camera with HDR+.
Moto Z users are reporting a noticeable difference in camera quality. I wish we had that too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah!
I want the google camera and dolphin emulator.
* * * Thread Cleaned * * *
Let's keep the comments RESPECTFUL and regarding the title of the thread. Profanity and personal attacks will NOT be tolerated.
This is a courtesy warning, please do not let it happen again.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Guyz, those who were telling that 64 bit is not possible in 3gb ram and Snapdragon 625, what about the Redmi 4 with 3gb ram and Snapdragon 430?
https://youtu.be/5kJtl-v0SE8
Hello everyone. I'm new with this phone and I have a big doubt about the architecture. The device is 64 or 32 bit or there's some mode to change between 32 and 64?
Btw, my device is 32 GB and 2 GB of RAM.
I attached one screenshot about my question if it's not clear at all. Thanks all.
If I am understanding this correcrly, and please correct me if I am mistaken, our device is 64bit capable but M gave us 32Bit os/firmware.
Now a lot of people will accuse M on this but keeps in mind as in windows on 32bit you get better compatibility and stabikity and on the other hand in 64bit you get all the new features and speed.
Pavlos
cris_webb said:
Hello everyone. I'm new with this phone and I have a big doubt about the architecture. The device is 64 or 32 bit or there's some mode to change between 32 and 64?
Btw, my device is 32 GB and 2 GB of RAM.
I attached one screenshot about my question if it's not clear at all. Thanks all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moto g5 Cedric hardware is 64bit
The stock rom firmware is currently 32bit
Therefore this phone is capable of supporting 64bit custom roms
You will need to unlock the bootloader & flash a 64bit custom rom
Our device has "only" 2GB of RAM, which is not a lot. To help software work better with its limited hardware resources Lenovorola decided to disable 64 bit mode. I guess there is no requirement from Google to activate 64 bit mode on all devices. I know definitely that most of 64 bit software on any platform requires more RAM to do same work. The reason is memory address becomes 2x larger on 64 bit platform. Every app needs to save many pointers to its data, and in 64 bit mode they need 2x memory. There are some optimizations, which may reduce memory usage in 64 bit mode. Average software is not enough optimized and uses more memory in 64 bit mode, sometimes 2x more memory compared to 32 bit mode. 64 bit vs 32 bit looks like 64 bit is of course better for many people. Actually apps must be optimized to become faster in 64 bit mode. If You average developer, and porting to 64 bit, there is no automagic improvement in speed. Sometimes 64 bit app requires more memory and/or runs slower than its 32 bit version. I guess Lenovorola tested it and found that 32 bit OS works better on this hardware. I'm not sure but 32 bit OS also may use less battery. 64 bit needed when: 1) You have >4GB RAM and want access to all memory without tricks like PAE, 2) When Your app uses 64 bit integers or double precision everywhere(most of games these days use single precision on CPU and GPU), 3) Your app specially optimized to be much faster in 64 bit mode(safe to assume none exist on Android platform).
NoAngel777 said:
Our device has "only" 2GB of RAM, which is not a lot. To help software work better with its limited hardware resources Lenovorola decided to disable 64 bit mode. I guess there is no requirement from Google to activate 64 bit mode on all devices. I know definitely that most of 64 bit software on any platform requires more RAM to do same work. The reason is memory address becomes 2x larger on 64 bit platform. Every app needs to save many pointers to its data, and in 64 bit mode they need 2x memory. There are some optimizations, which may reduce memory usage in 64 bit mode. Average software is not enough optimized and uses more memory in 64 bit mode, sometimes 2x more memory compared to 32 bit mode. 64 bit vs 32 bit looks like 64 bit is of course better for many people. Actually apps must be optimized to become faster in 64 bit mode. If You average developer, and porting to 64 bit, there is no automagic improvement in speed. Sometimes 64 bit app requires more memory and/or runs slower than its 32 bit version. I guess Lenovorola tested it and found that 32 bit OS works better on this hardware. I'm not sure but 32 bit OS also may use less battery. 64 bit needed when: 1) You have >4GB RAM and want access to all memory without tricks like PAE, 2) When Your app uses 64 bit integers or double precision everywhere(most of games these days use single precision on CPU and GPU), 3) Your app specially optimized to be much faster in 64 bit mode(safe to assume none exist on Android platform).
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As of August 2019 all new or upgraded apps must support 64bit libraries
It is then assumed Google will then slowly phase out 32bit entirely by only having 64bit android versions like the Apple has with its iPhone os
Also by August 2018 all new & updated apps needs to target oreo API which they are hoping will start to eliminate the fragmentation of Android versions
Since all phones shipped with oreo need the Android source code & vendor code separate it means in theory you can install the same android source code on any android device & just add the specific vendor code to it making it much easier to upgrade (I think these phones now have separate rom and vendor partitions)
Just wanted to catch your opinion on the real benefits of buying the 16 GB variant as opposed to 12 GB model. Make abstraction of the storage capacity increase, just assume that you don't really need 512 GB as long as you have expandable storage (via microSD) to use if really needed.
I am thinking of arguments justifying the additional RAM increase, considering that 12 GB is already more than enough for multitasking., even for running 2-3 RAM-intensive games at the same time
Looking forward to your opinions! :good: Thank you!
More ram - better dex experience?
Better for "locking apps" in the ram (new feature I guess for s20 series).
Smoother gaming?
Better for recording 8k?
More ram for buffing video?
Buffing online radio?
20degrees said:
More ram - better dex experience?
Better for "locking apps" in the ram (new feature I guess for s20 series).
Smoother gaming?
Better for recording 8k?
More ram for buffing video?
Buffing online radio?
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Is the "locking apps" feature available for all S20 phones? Someone in the YouTube's had mentioned it was an ultra exclusive. Lots of times those guys are wrong though.
chetly968 said:
Is the "locking apps" feature available for all S20 phones? Someone in the YouTube's had mentioned it was an ultra exclusive. Lots of times those guys are wrong though.
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Not sure. I'm getting the ultra so I couldn't care less. ?
20degrees said:
Not sure. I'm getting the ultra so I couldn't care less.
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So are you getting the 16 GB version?
katolink said:
So are you getting the 16 GB version?
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Oh yeah. I wish they offered a 1tb version. I'd be all over that.
20degrees said:
Oh yeah. I wish they offered a 1tb version. I'd be all over that.
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Ok, but assuming that you don't run 2 games at a time, or use dex at the same time with 8K recording, or buffing online radio.... is the incremental 4 GB really worth buying? I mean obviously this depends on real world usage, but still...
katolink said:
Ok, but assuming that you don't run 2 games at a time, or use dex at the same time with 8K recording, or buffing online radio.... is the incremental 4 GB really worth buying? I mean obviously this depends on real world usage, but still...
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Likely not worth it?
Also would depend how long you keep the phone? More ram would be a better future proofing option?
20degrees said:
Likely not worth it?
Also would depend how long you keep the phone? More ram would be a better future proofing option?
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Right point here. Future-proofing on this hardware is very tempting and viable.
I guess the real question is: if, let's say, you record 8K or buff high res video or run dex or play a high demanding game, BUT one at a time, with no superposition between such memory/processor-hungry apps, will the phone perform faster/smoother/more efficiently (battery-wise) in the 16 GB config, as opposed to 12 GB setup? Ignoring multitasking, focusing on single-tasking.
katolink said:
Right point here. Future-proofing on this hardware is very tempting and viable.
I guess the real question is: if, let's say, you record 8K or buff high res video or run dex or play a high demanding game, BUT one at a time, with no superposition between such memory/processor-hungry apps, will the phone perform faster/smoother/more efficiently (battery-wise) in the 16 GB config, as opposed to 12 GB setup? Ignoring multitasking, focusing on single-tasking.
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That's a good question. I don't think that can be answered without tests.
Definitely the bigger number. Bigger is always better, right?
What's future proofing?
Most of you will be trading your (S20 Ultra) in for a maxed out Note 20 in August, right?
cpufrost said:
Definitely the bigger number. Bigger is always better, right?
What's future proofing?
Most of you will be trading your (S20 Ultra) in for a maxed out Note 20 in August, right?
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Yes, bigger is generally better. The point is if bigger is really necessary or not (i.e. overkill) for certain usage patterns.
Future proofing means ensuring that you get the most advanced hardware/technology specs at a certain point in time in order to ensure that your device will not be outrun by future devices very time soon and will support more demanding future apps. In our case, if you buy the 16 GB variant, for sure you will not need to upgrade your phone for the next couple of years, RAM will likely be more than sufficient for running any apps that could possibly be launched in the future, no matter how memory intensive they would be.
I personally am not a Note fan, I don't use the sPen.
katolink said:
Just wanted to catch your opinion on the real benefits of buying the 16 GB variant as opposed to 12 GB model. Make abstraction of the storage capacity increase, just assume that you don't really need 512 GB as long as you have expandable storage (via microSD) to use if really needed.
I am thinking of arguments justifying the additional RAM increase, considering that 12 GB is already more than enough for multitasking., even for running 2-3 RAM-intensive games at the same time
Looking forward to your opinions! :good: Thank you!
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Click to collapse
@ 16 gigs -
- In theory, yes better..
In practical usage, I highly,highly doubt it.
Well worth the extra RAM, I'm getting this phone 12GB purely because it's my main work tool and use some ram hungry apps all day, being able to put the main 3 in RAM with larger brighter screen and larger battery is well worth the money .
I spend 9 hours a day using a phone
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
katolink said:
Yes, bigger is generally better. The point is if bigger is really necessary or not (i.e. overkill) for certain usage patterns.
Future proofing means ensuring that you get the most advanced hardware/technology specs at a certain point in time in order to ensure that your device will not be outrun by future devices very time soon and will support more demanding future apps. In our case, if you buy the 16 GB variant, for sure you will not need to upgrade your phone for the next couple of years, RAM will likely be more than sufficient for running any apps that could possibly be launched in the future, no matter how memory intensive they would be.
I personally am not a Note fan, I don't use the sPen.
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I was being sarcastic.
16GB is pure marketing, nothing more.
By the time 16GB is relevant on mobile devices, the CPU would be so outdated and slow.
Storage OTOH, matters more than anything.
8K video at decent bit rates; 200Mbps and up, uses a LOT of storage. As will better multichannel audio.
8K seems to be a gimmick at first but when you look at how much info you have in each frame, and there are 24 of them each second, it makes it so much easier to get a still from that video that simply wouldn't be possible by shooting pics with the regular snapper. Serious DSLR users are laughing, but you can't fit one in your pocket!
Storage irrelevant to me as everything I do is saved in the cloud
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Until you have no signal coverage.
As commented with he increase in camera specs it will consume a lot of data. 8K will default to internal memory so for me it's important.
bomp306 said:
Until you have no signal coverage.
As commented with he increase in camera specs it will consume a lot of data. 8K will default to internal memory so for me it's important.
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Internal memory or microSD card, which can be up to 1 TB. From this perspective, choosing the 16 GB RAM model just because it has 512 GB internal memory does not seem necessary. Well, unless you cannot use a memory card because you have 2 SIMs inserted in the hybrid slot and your carrier does not support eSIM
Hence, IMO the real choice is between the two RAM sizes, rather than internal memory specs.
katolink said:
Internal memory or microSD card, which can be up to 1 TB. From this perspective, choosing the 16 GB RAM model just because it has 512 GB internal memory does not seem necessary. Well, unless you cannot use a memory card because you have 2 SIMs inserted in the hybrid slot and your carrier does not support eSIM
Hence, IMO the real choice is between the two RAM sizes, rather than internal memory specs.
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Internal memory is MUCH faster than ANY microSD card!
cpufrost said:
Internal memory is MUCH faster than ANY microSD card!
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But you still use internal memory for storage, isn't it? So what's the deal? Where does faster internal memory help?