Related
****Last Day*****
Since money motivates some I'm starting a pledge thread for the DEV who roots an OTA stock version of Froyo on the EVO. For folks who are going to pledge here, please be serious and adhere to giving in the dollar or euro amount you are pledging. Understand these folks are doing this stuff on their free-time and with the money being offered we are hoping it will put a little more focus on getting this initiative completed sooner rather then later.
At minimum I am hoping for:
hboot.93 hack
Root Stock OTA Froyo 2.2 with Super User
Wifi Tether working
Everything else can stay the same in the ROM.
Once a Developer produces such an image with install instructions and is verified working, then those who pledge will insert funds to to the developer's Paypal account within 24 hours. Should be pretty simple. Again if you pledge, be a man or woman or your word and give this person what they earned.
I'm STARTING out with my pledge of $50 U.S. Dollars. Good luck!
**** Based on a Suggestion Going to include a deadline of 8/20 for the project to be completed to be eligible for the funds ***
Finally should a DEVELOPER decide they don't want the money, whatever is pledged here will be given to the XDA website donation link. And Please keep this to pledge donation amount replies.
(To admin, please make a sticky if possible)
Well it was a good attempt. I want to thank all of those who actually "PLEDGED" money and did not come to this thread to complain about the reasons why we put this pledge together.
For those that are stuck, I think it's time we face the music and consider one of two options:
Continue to Wait. (It's been 17 days since the release of OTA Froyo and no known exploit has been found)
Start looking at another device
I've decided to cut my looses and pre-order on an EPIC. It has been a pleasure being on the EVO side of the XDA forums. I wish the best of luck to everyone here and I hope one day root is achieved and that new bootloader is defeated.
Cheers
Never mind, the other thread is for an updated PRI for rooted phones.
By all means start a new thread.
I thought about starting a similar thread. Many developers have already put a lot of effort into solving this without monetary motivation. The only way I see this helping is if an HTC/Sprint person with access we don't have, helps out. The brightest minds in this community (dare I say anywhere) are already working hard on it. That, or maybe a non-Evo developer will start, but prob doubtful. Either way, $25 to support this. Save me from my stupidity/nonroot hell!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Since I am chronically impatient and therefore Dl'd the OTA I will throw down $10. Sorry I can't contribute more, new father here.
I can scrape together another $25 for the effort.
the price of one months tether
$30
So then are you guys planning on paying unrevoked tonight?
edufur said:
So then are you guys planning on paying unrevoked tonight?
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maybe you should go read again. you need to have a rooted phone already.
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. Normally, bounties are used for issues that nobody’s really working on, or for issues that have been worked on for some time, but are exceedingly difficult. What you’re doing here is setting a precedent where devs will be racing against each other to be first out the door with something that they’re all already working on, to win a monetary reward. I don’t know if that kind of precedent is a good idea.
2.2 root will happen, just be patient.
BTW, I’m no dev, so I can't speak for them, I'm just a member of the xda community. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see these kinds of threads. And that’s also not to say that the devs don’t deserve every dollar – they do! They kick ass in every way, shape and form. So maybe when they do root 2.2, send them a donation. But the reason I’ve been coming here since way back when I had the HTC Kaiser (although I only joined up when I got my Evo, I've been lurking here for years), is for the community and the people. Specifically people helping people, just to be helpful, and because they can, because they have the knowledge, and to show what can be done when the corporate locks are removed from a device so that it's capabilities are only limited to the coding skills of the dev, and the imagination of the community. Not for the money. To be frank, I think that if we keep going down this direction, we’ll all be worse off, and xda may change – and not for the better.
Just my $0.02, so take it for what it's worth.
And get off my lawn! Sorry - the above came out with a much more doom and gloom attitude than what I had intended. Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
fachadick said:
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. Normally, bounties are used for issues that nobody’s really working on, or for issues that have been worked on for some time, but are exceedingly difficult. What you’re doing here is setting a precedent where devs will be racing against each other to be first out the door with something that they’re all already working on, to win a monetary reward. I don’t know if that kind of precedent is a good idea.
2.2 root will happen, just be patient.
BTW, I’m no dev, so I can't speak for them, I'm just a member of the xda community. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable to see these kinds of threads. And that’s also not to say that the devs don’t deserve every dollar – they do! They kick ass in every way, shape and form. So maybe when they do root 2.2, send them a donation. But the reason I’ve been coming here since way back when I had the HTC Kaiser (although I only joined up when I got my Evo, I've been lurking here for years), is for the community and the people. Specifically people helping people, just to be helpful, and because they can, because they have the knowledge, and to show what can be done when the corporate locks are removed from a device so that it's capabilities are only limited to the coding skills of the dev, and the imagination of the community. Not for the money. To be frank, I think that if we keep going down this direction, we’ll all be worse off, and xda may change – and not for the better.
Just my $0.02, so take it for what it's worth.
And get off my lawn! Sorry - the above came out with a much more doom and gloom attitude than what I had intended. Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
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*******
I totally respect your view and agree that it should not be a money race. Open source is a beautiful thing and that is what I love about this platform. Developers craft their skill and share with others because they have a passion for what they do and not because they want to make money.
Once in a while though we should honor them for what it is they do and since the release of Froyo, it saddens me to read postings from individuals who are mocking people who upgraded their phone via OTA though there were warnings about it, lets face it, Froyo is an enticing update and unfortunately some folks jumped on it. But I also believe that there are a fare amount of people here who either recently purchased the phone or was in the middle of a warranty issue that ended up with an OTA'd Froyo and because these individuals want to mock and make these assumptions, it could be perceived that the only people who are begging for a root are the ones who OTA'd by choice. Regardless on how everyone got to OTA Froyo, we are here now and are patiently waiting for a workaround.
So in the hopes of offering in incentive not only to the fine work of developers here at XDA, but to help those of us who are stuck in limbo, I started this pledge to help get this initiative going.
fachadick said:
Somehow, I don't think that it's the lack of a monetary award that’s keeping the 2.2 root from happening. ~snip~ Didn’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. ;-)
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Agreed, so consider my contribution a donation to whoever roots this beast.
You can put me down for $20.00. Im in a slightly different boat than everyone else. My phone already had 2.2 on it when I picked it up. I dont know if it was that way out of the box or if one of the nice Sprint employees was kind enough to upgrade it for me. I paid for the phone/service when the store opened but didnt come back for the phone until after lunch because they needed to port the number, paperwork, etc and I didnt have time to wait.
That being said, I bought a bunch of software for my N1 which is now useless as I dont have root and Id really like to have that stuff back working again.
it's unfortunate that an open-source community, where devs work with free software, needs to resort to money to motivate people. i understand that there are devs out there who will do this for free because they enjoy doing it for free (so not all devs need money for motivation), but lets be real. you're promoting an environment where open source also means "but not for free".
there's no doubt that there are very very very talented devs here and maybe they do deserve some money. but what happens when they start thinking, "hmmm, if people are willing to pay just for root, I wonder what they'll pay for my services?"
cnstarz said:
you're promoting an environment where open source also means "but not for free".[/I]"
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Open Source doesn't mean the devs are working for free. If they want to sell their services then only those willing to pay shall receive such services. It is totally up to the devs.
jedwardmiller said:
Open Source doesn't mean the devs are working for free. If they want to sell their services then only those willing to pay shall receive such services. It is totally up to the devs.
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+1
Also, just because people are offering a bounty, doesn't mean that's why the devs are doing it. Like I said before, bounty or no bounty, someone will find a way to root froyo, and when that happens, I doubt that they'll have done it for the money.
Sent from my blah blah blah blah
bump..................................
Ok much better...
Should a developer decide that they don't want the money for their work, then what ever funds we have collected here, we'll donate it to the XDA forum paypal account to keep to site running. In either case the money will go to a good cause.
There needs to be a deadline tho. If not..it means it can be a year from now and still collect. I'd say by next Friday. A simple root will do, we can hold off for nand unlock. Atleast with simple root we can still tether which is what we mostly want.
Put me down for $20! I'm a newb with all this. Came over from the jailbreak world just last week. Can someone give me a heads up on how I donate the money once the root is released? Do these devs usually have pay pal donation function on there sites?
sent from my evo
Please see the full thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=735830
But this sums up where this project is at:
----
ok guys.. some bad news.. Talked with Matt2 on a business level and after i went over some figures with him, my calculations were so far off.. i should be on mars..
The break even point for this project is 275+/- 10/12 extras.
I have been saying 150 and I am not sure where I got that unless I was not calculating the shipping since I did free shipping.
We are at 129 at the time of writing this.
So here is my question, I have always said, I will refund if we stop this without it being made. We had over 350+ that wanted this.
My initial thought was to spend the several hours tonight to just cancel/refund.. but then I figured we came this far. I also go on vacation Sept 10-18.
So what I propose, today is the 11th of August. Lets give it till the 25th of August. 2 Weeks... If we are not even close, then I will spend the next 2 days refunding..
So listen.. if anyone out there wants this.. buy it now.. or it will not get made.. To all of those that did buy.. sorry its taking so long, your money is safe. I am not out to steal anything, I just want the door to be made.
Thanks
Joe
---
Thats crazy man but just like your saying, i actually am one of the dudes who said he was going to order one and i havent been on XDA in awhile, sorry i didnt see the thread but ill put an order in for one now. Best of luck, i hope we make it.
I'm sure though that if you made 275 you wouldn't have any problem at all selling them, both on here and on ebay. I'm surprised you have as many preorders as you do, considering you don't have a product to ship.
I just ordered mine. Can't wait to see it!
sketchy sketchy
yea dont forget about all the people not on xda or the other forums your doing this on. if you get close enough where you can afford to invest a little, do it and sell the rest after they are made.
DomSim said:
sketchy sketchy
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STFU! GET OFF THE BOARDS!
go back in the hairy little hole you crawled out of.
Joey has been upfront with all of us following this project from the start. He is human like the rest of us. first time he has done something like this and im sure he now knows to "measure twice cut once" always check the numbers and check them again to be sure... so we will wait it out and see what happens not a big deal!
We didnt even know if it was going to make production after the first couple days because so many VOTED YES TO THE PROJECT AND THEN DISAPPEARED when it came time to pony up for the pre-order. If people would have kept their word about ordering they would be in production already!
Joey....how many people actually place an order of the 359 that originally voted yes?
Would raising the price of each one by a couple of bucks per door get them to the target without needing more preorders?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
sprink0281 said:
STFU! GET OFF THE BOARDS!
go back in the hairy little hole you crawled out of.
Joey has been upfront with all of us following this project from the start. He is human like the rest of us. first time he has done something like this and im sure he now knows to "measure twice cut once" always check the numbers and check them again to be sure... so we will wait it out and see what happens not a big deal!
We didnt even know if it was going to make production after the first couple days because so many VOTED YES TO THE PROJECT AND THEN DISAPPEARED when it came time to pony up for the pre-order. If people would have kept their word about ordering they would be in production already!
Joey....how many people actually place an order of the 359 that originally voted yes?
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I am not sure of the numbers. I dont mind investing my own $ into it.. But I am just trying to get alot closer to that break even point.. If I sell more after, thats great but tbh, I am doing this as a community buy... not trying to get rich (not that I think that is even possible)
backdown said:
Would raising the price of each one by a couple of bucks per door get them to the target without needing more preorders?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Or not giving us the multiple discount id give the 2$ back if need be...
sprink0281 said:
Or not giving us the multiple discount id give the 2$ back if need be...
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no, either of those would help but still not enough. thanks for the offer though
sprink0281 said:
Or not giving us the multiple discount id give the 2$ back if need be...
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Yeah, I would love to have these, even if it does mean I sacrifice 2$
Joey, if you don't mind disclosing, how much money down you need to get these produced?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Appw
backdown said:
Yeah, I would love to have these, even if it does mean I sacrifice 2$
Joey, if you don't mind disclosing, how much money down you need to get these produced?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Appw
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14.99 * 275 = X
115 sold * 14.99 = Y
X-Y = what is left
joey3002 said:
14.99 * 275 = X
115 sold * 14.99 = Y
X-Y = what is left
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So is "X" literally "Breaking Even" for you guys?
sprink0281 said:
STFU! GET OFF THE BOARDS!
go back in the hairy little hole you crawled out of.
Joey has been upfront with all of us following this project from the start. He is human like the rest of us. first time he has done something like this and im sure he now knows to "measure twice cut once" always check the numbers and check them again to be sure... so we will wait it out and see what happens not a big deal!
We didnt even know if it was going to make production after the first couple days because so many VOTED YES TO THE PROJECT AND THEN DISAPPEARED when it came time to pony up for the pre-order. If people would have kept their word about ordering they would be in production already!
Joey....how many people actually place an order of the 359 that originally voted yes?
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whoa there man, little crazy of a response dont you think. i am entitled to my opinion that this is sketchy. if you dont agree fine, but personal unprovoked attack is a bit much dont you think?
If you would have followed for the past month + you would see this is not sketchy.. I have kept everyone updated the entire time... And how can a complete refund be sketchy?
Sent from evo using xda app
DomSim said:
whoa there man, little crazy of a response dont you think. i am entitled to my opinion that this is sketchy. if you dont agree fine, but personal unprovoked attack is a bit much dont you think?
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Calling someone sketchy is a personal attack.... joey has been upfront with us every step of the way...I only gave you some of your own medicine. That's all nothing more..
It aggravating when you watch someone work their ass off for the community on a project and have half of the people disappear who were supposed to order, then have you call this guy sketchy when hes done nothing but try to make us happy by seeing this project through any way he can... nobody else even came close to a comment like yours.
I followed the thread, saw all the updates, saw members commit money with delay after delay. I understand **** takes time but every post was "here is a final prototype but yours wont look like this" point is, promising something, taking peoples money, then GOING ON VACATION to wait it out IS sketchy whether you can admit it on not. You seem to have a serious personal stake in this or with the op but from an outside perspective it IS sketchy. If the op falls through and refunds everyones money then fine, that doesn't mean the situation was any less sketchy.
You say it wasn't sketchy because he kept everyone up to date, guess what, so do Nigerien scammers. Him keeping everyone updated is not a fool proof reassurance.
Sorry bro. Been holding out until I could see the finished product. Went ahead and ordered because I really want one. Thanks for the time an effort. Will tell my buddies with evos.
If you don't want one, don't send him money and leave the thread. I don't see how hard that is. And it's not that hard to get money back through paypal.
Sent from my Evo, using the xda app
DomSim said:
I followed the thread, saw all the updates, saw members commit money with delay after delay. I understand **** takes time but every post was "here is a final prototype but yours wont look like this" point is, promising something, taking peoples money, then GOING ON VACATION to wait it out IS sketchy whether you can admit it on not. You seem to have a serious personal stake in this or with the op but from an outside perspective it IS sketchy. If the op falls through and refunds everyones money then fine, that doesn't mean the situation was any less sketchy.
You say it wasn't sketchy because he kept everyone up to date, guess what, so do Nigerien scammers. Him keeping everyone updated is not a fool proof reassurance.
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This will be my last reply to you...
This was not a person that had one post and decided to start asking for peoples money..before this went to pre-order he told us of his VACATION and possible delivery dates. I have been involved with community generated projects in the past and they all involved a pre-order because these types of projects are not cheap to get started and not done to make an initial profit, they are to help get something made the community wants and doesn't exist, once the community is taken care of then you try to make money from the project by exploring different ways to market said item at a significantly higher price. He is not a prince from Nigeria sending unsolicited emails trying to get my bank info so that comparison was completely stupid AND HE IS USING PAYPAL! Wait did I mention PAYPAL! Nobody had to western union him cash or transfer cash into his account, so we feel very confident because at the end of the day if this doesn't get to production we WILL ALL GET OUR MONEY BACK BECAUSE HE USED PAYPAL! Easy for him to refund our money and has buyer protection. My personal stake in this -- I want a unique clear and colored battery door for my evo, made in the USA sold in the USA by someone in the community who actually followed thru! Joey took a poll to see how many people would buy one and it was more than enough for this project to move forward! It is not his fault that some people are not doing their part of the project and pre-ordering to get these to production.
Like I said this is my last response to you regarding this thread...you are officially on my ignore list.
for sure you have heard about the new "XDA Developers' Android Hacker's Toolkit"
It is certainly a good idea to regroup all the forums method inside a book,wrote by hackers and geek.
the only thing I think is strange is that XDA focused on idea sharing and hacker philosopy.
So why do we have to pay for this book? It should be free, because it is not "original", all of us in some way wrote it...I don't want to pay it not because i don't want to spend money, but because I think it should respect the hacker philosopy.
what do you think?
meccaandroid said:
for sure you have heard about the new "XDA Developers' Android Hacker's Toolkit"
It is certainly a good idea to regroup all the forums method inside a book,wrote by hackers and geek.
the only thing I think is strange is that XDA focused on idea sharing and hacker philosopy.
So why do we have to pay for this book? It should be free, because it is not "original", all of us in some way wrote it...I don't want to pay it not because i don't want to spend money, but because I think it should respect the hacker philosopy.
what do you think?
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I think that XDA provide us with a great place to come and learn and share our knowledge. In order to achive this their is going to be costs and if they can make some extra money from selling a book. To then use the said money to make this service even better, i can only see it as a good thing. Also a lot of people find it easier to read from a book than a computer screen.
Edit - I have just read the portal artical, and all the profits are going to the EFF, although the money is not going directly into XDA, it will directly help and benifit XDA, as they have done in the past.
All revenue earned through purchases of the book on Amazon will be donated to the EFF, which has given assistance to members of our community in the past. It’s available in both physical and eBook formats. Without further ado, here’s where you can get it right now:
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Profits go to a good cause.
Don't want to pay, just read the forums instead.
Simple.
conantroutman said:
Profits go to a good cause.
Don't want to pay, just read the forums instead.
Simple.
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Yes the profits are going to a very good cause. And to be honest with you I don't have any problem spending the $23 USD plus tax for the book. I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. But you just can not please all of the people no matter how hard you try.
I ordered mine in October, 2011. After many delays (like the Galaxy S3) I received my copy from amazon on Tuesday. I will use this weekend to read it. Learn some pointers.
As mentioned, profits from Amazon sales are donated to EFF.
All other profits (as anyone knows that has worked with a publisher), will be minuscule. We didn't do this to earn revenue, but to give people a great way to learn about Android development.
Keep on eye on the Portal...we'll be giving away a batch of free copies in the near future.
svetius said:
As mentioned, profits from Amazon sales are donated to EFF.
All other profits (as anyone knows that has worked with a publisher), will be minuscule. We didn't do this to earn revenue, but to give people a great way to learn about Android development.
Keep on eye on the Portal...we'll be giving away a batch of free copies in the near future.
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Thanks for the tip, another good reason to go to the portal besides when the forums are down for maintenance.
svetius said:
As mentioned, profits from Amazon sales are donated to EFF.
All other profits (as anyone knows that has worked with a publisher), will be minuscule. We didn't do this to earn revenue, but to give people a great way to learn about Android development.
Keep on eye on the Portal...we'll be giving away a batch of free copies in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tip, i will keep an eye out for that, stay at home dad = Poor
Good things come at a price..'nuff said.
OMG. I unlocked and rooted my Lollipop M8 today, but i only see Sunshine for making S-OFF, and it isnt free. Another way to get S-OFF one m8?
Man WTF the 25$?! I can live 5 days with 25$, so bull****.
And if there's no way, what i lose stuck on S-ON? I have international M8.
*sigh*
No, Sunshine is the only way
turko9999 said:
OMG. I unlocked and rooted my Lollipop M8 today, but i only see Sunshine for making S-OFF, and it isnt free. Another way to get S-OFF one m8?
Man WTF the 25$?! I can live 5 days with 25$, so bull****.
And if there's no way, what i lose stuck on S-ON? I have international M8.
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$25 is nothing compared to how much it cost the creators of sunshine, they destroyed loads of phones whist creating sunshine, obviously you need to test it before you release it to the public, and in the beginning it didn't always work, each phone at $500+ a pop isn't cheap, and they didn't all survive testing, so $25 is nothing.
You loose the ability to back flash, convert your phone to another version, jump around with firmware, s-on allows only current firmware flash and next step up, HBOOT flashing, modified firmware flashes, radio flashing, CID and MID changes, all sorts, I cant live without s-off myself.
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
Before you do anything with your phone, first learn how to fix it.
Sell the device for 500, and live for another 100 days
But thats of course not how we should see it !? Weird world we live in.........
Seanie280672 said:
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
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Disagree for a bit on this, there are many stock backups here in the M8 forum. The general section has a topic about that stickied and there is also a thread here in the Q&A section that holds lots of them.
Even the owners own stock backup is more than enough. Restore the stock nandroid and flash the stock recovery from the new ota, apply the update and voila.....stock updated. I'm not sure why many people always want to rely on RUU's ?
haha, the only reason I needed S off was to sim unlock...was way too easy to just Call T-mobile and get my code!!!
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
if i could pay the twenty five dollars i would....
im 16
i dont have a credit card and my parents aren't exactly the most willing to allow me to use twenty five dollars on sunshine.....
im pretty sure the devs who worked on sunshine have got their money back and more...
this is a great place of learning. it hurts when some of us cant do anything about this.
its been a year since ive been hoping they drop the payment or they add a free method for s-off.
so far none.
this only slows down dev work and hurts dev culture
leaving things open source would help everyone.....
secrets have their costs......
Just think about what happens when they stop the development on s-off, i dont think anybody else comes along and get it done for free. Because there is still up till now no other dev who dared to gain s-off.
Nobody ever complained when s-off was free ...... of course not it was FREE ! But now they ask for a price. Yes for some a big amount. But people who complain about that should not even think about s-off. S-off is not even needed to flash custom roms or run custom kernels.
And then the complaint about the 2000 investment , also nonsense because they messed up many devices. Not only the M8 ! Think about that before saying things like that. The team behind s-off goes many years back already. I frankly doubt that a year salary would make up for it !!!
And the rights and permissions s-off needs.....if you are scared or worried ? DON'T USE IT
Nobody is forcing anybody to use it. Stay safe.....stay stock
This all has nothing to do with xda, xda has no rights whatsoever on s-off + the involved development
Take it or leave it ! Right @beaups !!!
rpmccormick said:
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
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1.) Permissions are declared for fun, and as a learning experience for users. For you, as a "developer", you should know that as a root exploit we can get whatever permissions we want without declarations.
2.) We've covered the costs and our pricing strategy time and time again. If you think the price is unfair, don't buy it. If you think it should be free, and everything on XDA should be free, then spend the time yourself and develop another solution, and then provide it and support it for free. It should only take you a week, right?
These things take a lot of time, and money. a LOT of time. How many unlocks are being released for other devices lately? Where can I paid or free Samsung bootloader unlock on a blocked device? How about Motorola? LG? Sony?.....
The simple fact is this: f we weren't able to charge for SunShine, we would not have been able to dedicate the resources to develop it., and you'd have no s-off today.
Sorry no, you are telling half truths, and flat out lies. I have no idea why you would do this.
No, I offered to let someone take over the financial responsibility and re-release for free, I didn't offer to PM expenses of a "few thousands". Few thousand is what was spent in the first week of April. Few weeks? SunShine has been in development for well over a year .Few years of salary, your kidding.
Taking your word that you are a developer, you should know very well something like this doesn't magically appear in one week. As a developer, you are well aware that a root app does not need to really declare any permissions. I could add them on the fly, I mean the app is running as root. So why all the permissions, just to raise awareness of permissions. Do you want me to remove all permissions and just add them on the fly without alerting you? Its a pretty trivial thing to do, and you would never know.
We are far from the only ones doing this, we are just the cheapest, and safest, yet we are the only ones attacked over it.
Offer still stands, commit to taking over full financial requirements of our development, and we can re-release for free.
rpmccormick said:
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
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I am coming from the perspective of M9, not M8... I posted here because the M9 thread was closed.
You said yourself you bought 4 M9's and I thought you said you had S-Off in a week, no? I am a dev, hardware and software, but not a super-star like you, and though I truly believe I could get S-off, it would probably take me a year of my life that I cannot devote.
I have great respect for you man, and for the XDA community at large. The core of me truly believes that forcing a charge on modders is wrong. Well, if you want to charge for your do it all for you app that is not wrong, but you should also post clear instructions on what your app does so that others could easily do the same, themselves, for free. Knowledge should be free. You are hoarding your knowledge in order to increase profits for your app. I do not mean to offend, just to share my opinion, which is that your tactics are immoral. Please take that statement with a grain of salt, as I do not mean to offend, I am sure you do not believe they are immoral, and I also believe that paying for any form of Knowledge or Art is immoral. I do realize I am in the minority there.
EDIT: Are there others doing it for more money? Who? Do you really just make enough to keep up with your dev-expenses? or if 1% of the people that paid donated, would that cover your dev expenses and the other 99% is just cash on top? Maybe my scales-of-economy are way off here, but it seems to me by the number of people with S-Offed M8's and M9's, that you should be rolling in it at $25/head, no?
rpmccormick said:
I am coming from the perspective of M9, not M8... I posted here because the M9 thread was closed.
You said yourself you bought 4 M9's and I thought you said you had S-Off in a week, no? I am a dev, hardware and software, but not a super-star like you, and though I truly believe I could get S-off, it would probably take me a year of my life that I cannot devote.
I have great respect for you man, and for the XDA community at large. The core of me truly believes that forcing a charge on modders is wrong. Well, if you want to charge for your do it all for you app that is not wrong, but you should also post clear instructions on what your app does so that others could easily do the same, themselves, for free. Knowledge should be free. You are hoarding your knowledge in order to increase profits for your app. I do not mean to offend, just to share my opinion, which is that your tactics are immoral. Please take that statement with a grain of salt, as I do not mean to offend, I am sure you do not believe they are immoral, and I also believe that paying for any form of Knowledge or Art is immoral. I do realize I am in the minority there.
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It took 24hours once the device was in hand, that doesn't mean we didnt buy other ARM64 devices over the last year, nor that we haven't spent months learning the architecture, nor changes in Android 5.x, nor writing new tools.
We don't force a charge, nor do we hold a monopoly on the subject, yet we are the only ones facing personal attacks for it.
Knowledge does not come to us for free, we invest heavily into gaining that knowledge. I do find it ironic that you are lecturing me on this, considering I have open sourced more Android exploits than any other person, and that I've posted my training material (from a $3500 per person session) for free online. Why should I have to pay for all these things, but you shouldn't? This kind of attitude and attack makes me regret contributing as much as I have, and still do.
Please don't regret, I am trying to have a discussion, not attack you. I have great respect for you.
EDIT: Great point on root apps and permissions. I am a sheep like the rest of them, I take risks and I even paid you against my own morals, but honestly the entire community needs to change their way of thinking... no one should ever run any root app that is not open source.
PS: I have open-sourced much in my life as well, but I am sure not half as much, as good, or as important as you have. I truly do not mean to disrespect you, just change the way the community thinks about ALL non-OS things.
PPS: It is mfgs/big4 that are immoral by not giving us all the option to S-Off, to carrier unlock, to flash a non-branded RUU, and to change the HBOOT logo. You are our greatest soldiers against their oppression. Keep up the good work, and make it easy for others to learn how to do the same. Thank you.
jcase said:
It took 24hours once the device was in hand, that doesn't mean we didnt buy other ARM64 devices over the last year, nor that we haven't spent months learning the architecture, nor changes in Android 5.x, nor writing new tools.
We don't force a charge, nor do we hold a monopoly on the subject, yet we are the only ones facing personal attacks for it.
Knowledge does not come to us for free, we invest heavily into gaining that knowledge. I do find it ironic that you are lecturing me on this, considering I have open sourced more Android exploits than any other person, and that I've posted my training material (from a $3500 per person session) for free online. Why should I have to pay for all these things, but you shouldn't? This kind of attitude and attack makes me regret contributing as much as I have, and still do.
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Jcase, don't listen to the haters. Everyone in the world thinks they are entitled to everything. If they can't afford it then they should either work harder so they can afford it or find their own way. I say congrats for coming up with a niche product and making some money on it. This world would be a better place if people spent less time complaining and more time working hard to make a better life for them and their families.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app
I really wish people would knock it off with this mess. There are few phones left that can be made truly open, and it's only because of Sunshine that the HTC One M7/8/9 phones are on that list. What do people want? No phones that can be turned into developer phones?
Seriously guys, the next time you are thinking of whining about $25, consider that for many phones, there is no solution. Want to do anything more than root a Samsung Galaxy S6? Good luck with that.
Maybe we need to add a section with pricing for JTAG services or S-off SD-cards. I recall for a while there was a pool of people who went in to buy one of those factory service cards for well over $1000, and split the cost between them. I wonder what that worked out to per S-off.
At $25, Sunshine is a steal. Even if you get unlucky, and up shelling out $50, it's a good deal. If you are truly stupid, and shell out $75, you still at least have a developer phone.
I just hope jcase and beaups don't get tired of the crap and decide to go do something else with their time, as I have really enjoyed my M8 with S-off, and I would like to think they will still be around when the M10 comes out.
Wow, a while since I've posted in here and cannot believe the attitude of a so called dev on another dev.
It's deeply ungrateful and uncalled for to attack a handful of devs that, aside from the money, have obviously put a lot of time and effort into bringing such an exploit to the masses. Not just for this one thing, but also for gaining the knowledge to do it.
Anyone who declares he/she is a dev, should understand the time and effort that goes into these things.
I myself do understand as I have developed a few projects myself.
What's wrong with charging a perfectly reasonable sum? Do people complain to the networks when they have to pay for unlock codes?
What about paid apps on Google play, should they all be free?
No they shouldn't because at the end of the day it's up to the user if they want to pay or not. Nobody forces anyone's hand in their pocket.
So what if what has been recouped is so many times the cost? Does it matter if they made a dollar or a million? It just goes to show how many people desperately wanted it if that is the case.
The other alternative is nothing then there would be bountys flying about begging for someone to do it.
These guys took it upon themselves to provide a product, laid it on the table and said take it or leave it.
Don't get upset about it, don't moan about the cost, don't attack the provider of the product.
Quite simply sit back, think of the value it will bring to you, if you don't think its worth it, leave it alone and go and find an alternative solution.
Good day.
jshamlet said:
I really wish people would knock it off with this mess. There are few phones left that can be made truly open, and it's only because of Sunshine that the HTC One M7/8/9 phones are on that list. What do people want? No phones that can be turned into developer phones?
Seriously guys, the next time you are thinking of whining about $25, consider that for many phones, there is no solution. Want to do anything more than root a Samsung Galaxy S6? Good luck with that.
Maybe we need to add a section with pricing for JTAG services or S-off SD-cards. I recall for a while there was a pool of people who went in to buy one of those factory service cards for well over $1000, and split the cost between them. I wonder what that worked out to per S-off.
At $25, Sunshine is a steal. Even if you get unlucky, and up shelling out $50, it's a good deal. If you are truly stupid, and shell out $75, you still at least have a developer phone.
I just hope jcase and beaups don't get tired of the crap and decide to go do something else with their time, as I have really enjoyed my M8 with S-off, and I would like to think they will still be around when the M10 comes out.
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+1 on this
I dare anyone of these guys complaining, to go and try and create an s-off tool, see how many 1000's of dollars of phones you destory before you get it right and all of your time spent on it, then give it away for free ????? really, I wouldnt.
When I was using my M7, and firewater was still alive, it used to fail, no matter what combination of rom's and kernals I used, now this was before sunshine was created, I used a shop in the UK based in sheffield, thankfully, an area I visit on a regular basis, they s-off HTC phones by java card for a price of £15 GBP, funny enough thats $25 ish http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/htc_s-off_service.htm
the day I got home with my new M8, about 2 months ago, I unlocked it, flashed a custom recovery, rooted it, this was all before its first ever boot, I then booted it for the first time and ran sunshine through it, the stock rom and stock firmware never stood a chance.
Stop your complaining or live with s-on.
Seanie280672 said:
$25 is nothing compared to how much it cost the creators of sunshine, they destroyed loads of phones whist creating sunshine, obviously you need to test it before you release it to the public, and in the beginning it didn't always work, each phone at $500+ a pop isn't cheap, and they didn't all survive testing, so $25 is nothing.
You loose the ability to back flash, convert your phone to another version, jump around with firmware, s-on allows only current firmware flash and next step up, HBOOT flashing, modified firmware flashes, radio flashing, CID and MID changes, all sorts, I cant live without s-off myself.
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
Before you do anything with your phone, first learn how to fix it.
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I understand but i believe they have made greater amounts of profit than just getting back the money for the phones they wasted. Not saying that it should be free but 25$ is a bit a lot for the ones living in the third world countries and the developers of sunshine overlooked that completely when deciding the cost.
shad0wboss said:
I understand but i believe they have made greater amounts of profit than just getting back the money for the phones they wasted. Not saying that it should be free but 25$ is a bit a lot for the ones living in the third world countries and the developers of sunshine overlooked that completely when deciding the cost.
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ok I understand, so lets say they gave it away for free now, how do you think all the people that paid would react ? id be P*VIST, its a no win situation, and developoment on it is continuious with each new release of a new version of android. ie Lollipop, it took a couple of weeks for sunshine to work on the newer HBOOT 1.61, before that sunshine only supported upto HBOOT 1.57.
Seanie280672 said:
ok I understand, so lets say they gave it away for free now, how do you think all the people that paid would react ? id be P*VIST, its a no win situation, and developoment on it is continuious with each new release of a new version of android. ie Lollipop, it took a couple of weeks for sunshine to work on the newer HBOOT 1.61, before that sunshine only supported upto HBOOT 1.57.
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THat's why I said it shouldn't be "free" but the price should be reduced. This tool shouldn't only be for the people from the west but for everyone around the world. The price has been unfairly defined for this product for everyone. And for the people who paid 25$, they did because they could, so it doesn't sound "unfair" to me.
So its been a while since i had an htc.
The last one i had was so easy to root s-off super cid.
when it wasnt, i always loved the challenge.
If i recall you had to extract a file called mmcblk0p4 and modify it. Or just modify it with a hex editor right on your phone and place it back with a root explorer. actually i still have it in an old folder.
What is the problem here? How did htc fix that exploit? Why cant we figure it out?
Not that i dont appreciate an awesome app that does it for you. But i always loved doing it myself.
Not trying to bash or start a debate over moralities. Just an interesting and informative convo.
where there is a will there is a way!
Well actually I guess because the people who were discovering the exploits actually created sunshine and are distributing methods via this app only.
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
myphonesbetter said:
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
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It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
computerslayer said:
It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
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That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
myphonesbetter said:
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
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Sunshine has been about since the HTC One M7 days, I paid and used it on my M7 and M8 and about to use it on 2 x M9's, me personally, I really dont have a problem paying the $25 for it to do what it does, personally I think its dead cheap for what these guys did to get around HTCs so called fixes.
Now on to why it even costs in the first place, imagine whilst developing an app to this level, how many phones you had to buy and destroy along the way, this app isnt just for pretty much every HTC made since the M7, of course you are going to want some of it back, if you didnt, you'd be bankrupt in 2 days, with every release of firmware or every new phone release, the app needs to be modified and updated, Hell, you pay $200 for Microsoft Windows for the same reasons.
jcase said:
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
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thanks for the response. It would be nice to get a response on the actual q i posted lol. (different thread)
I guess its easier when its trivial.
Its good to hear you guys donate some of it. and that youve release the majority of the code. i guess people are just lazy.
Honestly you dont need s-off. The main reason i would want it is incase i need to go back to stock for warranty reasons. In which case the money would be worth it. still more fun do follow a write and learn about what i am doing in the process.
As far as data mining im talking about some of the more popular roms and apps out there. not just in the htc forum. Just a thought. why wouldn't they.
And the question isn't why its $25. I get that. It is totally worth it. Its so easy to use. I used to spend hours troubleshooting to get my phones s-off'd and running smooth on all the roms. now you can do it in seconds. these days i just pick one that works better than stock and stick with it. seems like stock updates kill the phones now.
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
I guess it dragged a little deeper than i wanted. But every time someone asks these questions it turns into insult matches or just the copy pasted comment of i don't think $25 is too much. if you cant afford that then blah blah . then all credibility is lost and people are persuaded to think as the majority of commenters think. Mouthbreathers will be mouthbreathers. But they are the ones that make this consumer based economy function properly.
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
myphonesbetter said:
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
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Many people have tried to crack sunshine, I'm unaware of anyone being successful. It is actually pretty funny seeing how many hours people put into cracking SunShine, it is an worthless endeavor considering that most of the calculations are done server side, cracking the app doesn't get you anything as it is done server side. They would need to hack our WAN facing server, proxy through it and then hack the "offline" box we do the work on. This would be a felony on many levels. I like to think most people are honest, and don't go committing felony violations of CFAA over the fact that an app isn't free.
As far as a different app, it is hard, it is expensive, and most people with the skillset or drive, are tackling bigger problems.
Far as a writeup, we make plenty of them, where are your technical write ups?
myphonesbetter said:
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
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None of this is "very fast", it all has years of research behind it. Research we did, we put the time and money into. Yes even on old phones it is expensive, the software we use (IDA Pro and Jeb) alone are $1000s a year in licensing fees. Considering each person needs a license, its very costly. And yes, we are not thieves, we actually have licenses in our names. Many models we have spent money on, never sell more than a couple licenses. So the more popular models also fund the work done on models that don't make any sales. Sure we could just not add support for oddball models sold in only one country, but what fun is that.
myphonesbetter said:
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
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The investment would be the out of pocket part, money to start projects doesnt just magically show up. New HTC u11 is what $600 bucks? One we fried the soc and mmc on? What $50 if we are selling it honestly (cause that thing wont EVER be repaired, and screen is about the only part re-usable)? Plus we run the risk of our debug builds leaking if someone is able to extract memory from the device, no thanks, not reselling a burned phone for $50(or even $300) and risk losing everything we have worked on for the last few years.
myphonesbetter said:
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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We have released plenty of free training material, white papers and example source code for people to start off of. Those resources would be much better than starting off with SunShine source code. As we have said, when SunShine is done, we will open source it. Considering no one does anything with what we do release, I have doubts anyone would do anything with everything we don't release. We were sure we would get 0 sales on Droid Turbo after publishing that write up, we thought someone would have a free exploit written that day. It has been years, nothing so far.
myphonesbetter said:
If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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LOL. People don't contribute to most mobile OSS projects, go look at copperhead, look at their commit history. I'm even guilty of it, my contributions besides projects I helped started are minimal (even my commits to AOSP are few).
myphonesbetter said:
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
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All of our write ups are still up, and we still publish more each year, I don't know what the heck you are going on about here. Please take the time to look rather than just make such claims.
myphonesbetter said:
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
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Again, feel free to use the free resources we have and continue to provide to the community for free to build your own. We DO NOT discourage people from doing so, we actively encourage it by publishing a fair bit of our work for free. I even traveled on my own dime (not sunshine money, not someone else's money, but from my paycheck) without reimbursement to Las Vegas with Tim Strazzere and Caleb Fenton to provide trading FOR FREE. We over filled the maximum occupancy for the room. We were not allowed to take any more people.
In reality, and not to be insulting, it is pretty obvious you didn't properly research all of this.