i saw in google pixel specs that include EIS 2.0 " electronic image stabilizer " , and does not include OIS " optical image stabilizer " , so i have nexus 6p is it mean that i have old version of EIS ?
what is the version of EIS in nexus 6p and what is the deference between two and can recorde 4k with EIS ?
the answer will decide to buy pixel or not , because video recording important to me .
thank you in advance
ali8383 said:
i saw in google pixel specs that include EIS 2.0 " electronic image stabilizer " , and does not include OIS " optical image stabilizer " , so i have nexus 6p is it mean that i have old version of EIS ?
what is the version of EIS in nexus 6p and what is the deference between two and can recorde 4k with EIS ?
the answer will decide to buy pixel or not , because video recording important to me .
thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've gathered the stabilization in the 6p is purely software based.
On the pixel however, Google has tied the camera to the gyroscope. The gyroscope polls 200 times a second to stabilize the image. So while it doesn't have Ois, it's not just software on the pixel.
scandalousk said:
From what I've gathered the stabilization in the 6p is purely software based.
On the pixel however, Google has tied the camera to the gyroscope. The gyroscope polls 200 times a second to stabilize the image. So while it doesn't have Ois, it's not just software on the pixel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tigercranestyle said:
^^^ what this guy said, though i thought i heard it polled the gyroscope 2000/second. looked around, but can't remember where i read/heard it. but yeah, @ali8383, 6p is strictly software based while pixel is sw/hw.
also the nexus 6p couldn't use eis to record 4k. the pixel can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for explaination
Could the 6P not poll its gyro also given the software?
B3501 said:
Could the 6P not poll its gyro also given the software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably doesn't have the CPU power to handle everything needed... kind of how HDR+ is way better on the Pixels. That, or Google is pulling shady moves and purposely hindering past devices to push new product.
I don't know what they are using for stability, but I did notice the pictures from the Pixel phones were much more sharper and detailed. Check out this video I made of a real world camera test on youtube. I got to play with the actual phones a few days before they came out and this was the first things i checked out. Just google techplughd. Thanks
This might help (go to minute 28)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9782565306/google-launches-pixel-and-pixel-xl-smartphones
EDIT...the video in the link isn't set to the right time, I will tell you what time the video stabilization is shown.
4redstars said:
This might help (go to minute 28)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9782565306/google-launches-pixel-and-pixel-xl-smartphones
EDIT...the video in the link isn't set to the right time, I will tell you what time the video stabilization is shown.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you i watched the video again and understand now how it works .
Even when it seems a nice feature, the lack of OIS is still a sin in 2016 and for the price they pretend to charge.
Besides this, pinging the gyroscope 200 times per second is still more expensive (in terms of processing) than just add the proper hardware.
I don't believe this kind of stabilization could be better than normal EIS, so I'm staying skeptical until I see real conditions videos.
Here's a really good explanation of OIS vs EIS and being a current Nexus 6p user lowlight has been phenomenal so I'm excited about the Gyroscope and don't even care about not having OIS really.
https://9to5google.com/2016/10/10/g...firms-that-eis-will-still-work-with-4k-video/
I have a guess why no OIS, think this , without a OIS Gyroscope data perfectly match how camera lens moves, and software can pull the data out to correct the image, with OIS, the data from Gyroscope doesn't match the lens move any more, the EIS can only use the data from the camera to do stabilization which is less effective (cost more CPU and worse result). Some prople may argue OIS hardware can do the work, to be honest, OIS can offset some hand shake during low light taking pics, but during video recording, that little OIS can offer very little help smooth out the image, which actually not worth losing the ability to actually use Gyroscope to correct the image which can create more stable image. and Consider the pixel size of the camera is very large, much larger than even note 7, the low light shutter speed is actually fast enough so OIS really can't make much difference here. I use GS7 and I do notice taking low light pics take longer expose time, but google claim the pixel phone doesn't, which proves what I am guessing here. Let's see some real life test before jump to a conclusion, OIS is good, unless it is a big rig or on a big camera. On a phone, we just pick whatever works.
Does the Pixel have any sort of non-software based image stabilization for photos? (Gyroscope stabilization has only been mentioned for videos).
4redstars said:
Here's a really good explanation of OIS vs EIS and being a current Nexus 6p user lowlight has been phenomenal so I'm excited about the Gyroscope and don't even care about not having OIS really.
https://9to5google.com/2016/10/10/g...firms-that-eis-will-still-work-with-4k-video/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jeffonion said:
I have a guess why no OIS, think this , without a OIS Gyroscope data perfectly match how camera lens moves, and software can pull the data out to correct the image, with OIS, the data from Gyroscope doesn't match the lens move any more, the EIS can only use the data from the camera to do stabilization which is less effective (cost more CPU and worse result). Some prople may argue OIS hardware can do the work, to be honest, OIS can offset some hand shake during low light taking pics, but during video recording, that little OIS can offer very little help smooth out the image, which actually not worth losing the ability to actually use Gyroscope to correct the image which can create more stable image. and Consider the pixel size of the camera is very large, much larger than even note 7, the low light shutter speed is actually fast enough so OIS really can't make much difference here. I use GS7 and I do notice taking low light pics take longer expose time, but google claim the pixel phone doesn't, which proves what I am guessing here. Let's see some real life test before jump to a conclusion, OIS is good, unless it is a big rig or on a big camera. On a phone, we just pick whatever works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no "data" from OIS, is just a mechanical system in order to compensate any movement made bu the user. The compensation is immediately and there is no need to process anything, and that's why is the preferred for most of the people. Besides, OIS help a lot with low light pictures and even when the Nexus 6P was really capable, the addition of OIS could have make a formidable experience in camera.
https://youtu.be/l5d2F6nP5MY?t=25s
EIS can't help with pictures, is only used for video, and even when it does somehow the job, the results are not so good, and it tends to have a lot of jelly effect. When you have OIS available, you can also make it work in conjunction with EIS and the results are awesome. Another point for the OIS is that it works with all resolutions, while EIS is dependant on the resolution and the processing power.
You can think this: best smartphone's cameras are the ones which include OIS, and they present really decent results even in low light. OIS helps you both in photo and video, while EIS is only for video.
I changed some months ago from a phone with OIS to one that doesn't have it, and I can say it's a world of difference in detail, even when the second one has better camera in paper, and when you mix the OIS and EIS, you get a really nice stabilized video without having to sacrifice much.
sabesh said:
Does the Pixel have any sort of non-software based image stabilization for photos? (Gyroscope stabilization has only been mentioned for videos).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my point, Google is presuming about its new camera and its new stabilization, but most of the people take more photos than videos the whole time, and as far as I know, OIS is the only way to proper "stabilize" when taking pictures. Besides this, I would love to see manual controls and long exposure in this camera to see how good it does considering the lack of OIS and see if it's on pair with other smartphones.
Galaxo60 said:
Even when it seems a nice feature, the lack of OIS is still a sin in 2016 and for the price they pretend to charge.
Besides this, pinging the gyroscope 200 times per second is still more expensive (in terms of processing) than just add the proper hardware.
I don't believe this kind of stabilization could be better than normal EIS, so I'm staying skeptical until I see real conditions videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But think about it. OIS is usually requested due to it performing better in low light conditions and stabilize the video (it's not to prevent blurry pictures). Google opted to go with a larger sensor that has a larger pixels, which in turn offer much better performance in low light. They then stabilized the camera with the gyroscope to prevent the jelly effect during recording. It's just a different take on the camera that will probably work just as well. Even better maybe.
Google has stated that the camera has a special core dedicated to it. Meaning processing power isn't lost at all.
scandalousk said:
But think about it. OIS is usually requested due to it performing better in low light conditions and stabilize the video (it's not to prevent blurry pictures).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong, OIS help you a lot by taking pictures in low light condition with a long exposure and prevent the blurry pictures, and that's why is a really nice adition to have.
Galaxo60 said:
Wrong, OIS help you a lot by taking pictures in low light condition with a long exposure and prevent the blurry pictures, and that's why is a really nice adition to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Longer exposure time means that the camera is able to capture more light... Guess what else captures a lot more light? The large 1.55 micron pixels that the pixel phone has.
Taking pictures in the dark results in more noise, not blurred pictures perse.
With the f2.0 aperture, the pictures will have less depth vs a f1.7/1.8 aperture. Is that correct?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
scandalousk said:
Longer exposure time means that the camera is able to capture more light... Guess what else captures a lot more light? The large 1.55 micron pixels that the pixel phone has.
Taking pictures in the dark results in more noise, not blurred pictures perse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you in these points, but the Nexus 6P has the same camera and still produces some unexpected results time to time, so if Google nailed it with this, I think many people would be happy.
This is some test in low light, and it seems focus is still messed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbLZq52fVQM
Galaxo60 said:
I agree with you in these points, but the Nexus 6P has the same camera and still produces some unexpected results time to time, so if Google nailed it with this, I think many people would be happy.
This is some test in low light, and it seems focus is still messed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbLZq52fVQM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus 6P does not use the same camera as the Pixel phones. It's a different sensor. Although both phones have 1.55 micron pixels. The Nexus 6P also doesn't use any hardware based stabilization like the Pixel phone either.
And while focusing didn't happen in that videos. It's a single instance where OIS wouldn't have made a difference since the Nexus 6P did focus.
The best thing to do is just wait and see. I'm sure Google will give us something stellar.
scandalousk said:
The Nexus 6P does not use the same camera as the Pixel phones. It's a different sensor. Although both phones have 1.55 micron pixels. The Nexus 6P also doesn't use any hardware based stabilization like the Pixel phone either.
And while focusing didn't happen in that videos. It's a single instance where OIS wouldn't have made a difference since the Nexus 6P did focus.
The best thing to do is just wait and see. I'm sure Google will give us something stellar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This looks pretty nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oftbNhz8fU
Related
Hello,
Im looking to upgrade my Nexus 5 and ive been going through lots and lots of reviews, videos, pictures of many of the new phones out right now. Z5, S6, Nexus 5X.
I really like the Nexus 5X despite some of it shortcomings but one thing i REALLY have a hard time accepting is how shaky the picture is when recording video compared to iphone 6s, Sony Z5 and others.
Here is a video showing it against the Moto X pure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_zth08zFLw
The Nexus 5x i horrible Is that something we will just have to accept because it lacks OIS or is it possible to fix software wise in a camera update or using a 3rd party camera app. I must say that in its current form its unusable.
Regards
Jacob
indeed it is shaky...
haven't tried it but this one has video stabilization - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera
Maybe someone with a nexus 5x could try opencamera to record a video and post the result?
Yeah I was hoping 1080p would at least get decent software stability. It has enough pixels for it. ?
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.
Does anyone know? Anyone tried opencamera?
Just my $.02. It was my understanding from the Launch event that it doesn't have image stabilization. Something about how it didn't need it with the upgraded light gathering capability of the camera.
The Moto X pure doesn't have OIS either, it's done in software
I'll just splurge for a gimbal. LOL
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.
gomylle said:
Does anyone know? Anyone tried opencamera?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just tried it and it seems decent. Good thing is that OpenCamera properly implements the sensor orientation detection, so the preview and resulting files are correct. It has experimental support for Camera 2 API, which needs to be enabled in order to expose the EIS setting.
At high resolution (4k), there's significant lag that's recorded in the videos with the EIS enabled. Google did say the 808 couldn't handle it; maybe they weren't just blowing smoke?
At 1080p, it seems to help reduce the shakiness by a fair amount; it's no OIS replacement for sure, but I'd say better than not having anything.
Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?
Evo_Shift said:
Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From pics I saw it does fine without OIS. But videos would have benefited. And yes they coined it as "ultra-pixels".
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.
Look at this. Amazing:
http://www.frequency.com/video/nexus-5x-stabilized-4k-footage-using/244831773?cid=5-9852
Hi
Evo_Shift said:
Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OIS is only really of benefit for photos at shutter speeds less than 1/60th second, unless you have a zoom lens, where it is helpful at higher shutter speeds, as the more you are zoomed, the more amplified any body shake is. For smartphones with their wide angle view, camera shake is not too much of a problem for most typical situations, and any daytime scene OIS is completely pointless as the shutter speed is plenty high enough to freeze out any camera shake. The larger pixels help as the ISO can be higher without too much noise meaning a faster shutter speed can be used.
For video the situation is different as images are taken over time, so it's the movement in camera position between each picture that needs to smoothed, although the fashion these days on most documentaries and TV shows is to deliberately shake the camera around until it's a nauseating mess with whip zooms into the mix Still it's a good indicator I find for knowing the program is trash and not worth watching :victory:
OIS in smart phones helps a little with video, but the tiny lens optics and limited movement means they don't do nearly as well as a dedicated camcorder with OIS, which gives some amazing results. The link to the stablised 5X video is using a $300 device, so if anyone is that serious about their smart phone video, then for that money we might as well take a much bigger step in image quality and convenience and features and get a dedicated camcorder.
The elephant in the room with the Nexus 6P is EIS, this is the poor mans image stabilizer, yes it does help stabilize the video to a certain degree, but to do this it has to crop the image. It appears to be doing this the cheap way in software (hence needing the powerful chip), taking a 1080P video, then zooming into so it can have a window of view to pan around in, this means the resulting video has less resolution, see the clips here https://youtu.be/HV4rcFuUlUc?t=246 and compare the detail between the two, there is a drop in resolution on the 6P. Better EIS systems capture a larger image at the sensor, then would track and pan a 1920x1080 window across it so no resolution drop, but that requires more low level work with the camera hardware and dedicated chips to do a good job.
Record a 1080P video with the 5X, upload to YouTube and get it to apply stabilization and it will do the same thing, may even turn out better than the 6P EIS as it doesn't need to be done in real time so a bit more care can be taken.
Will the 6P stabilize 4K video? I somehow doubt it has the power to do that, so for 4K it's an even playing field between the two.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
Hi
Record a 1080P video with the 5X, upload to YouTube and get it to apply stabilization and it will do the same thing, may even turn out better than the 6P EIS as it doesn't need to be done in real time so a bit more care can be taken.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, aren't those phones using the much higher resolution of the sensor (at least about 4k) to stabilize the video by changing the captured frame on the sensor corresponding to the phones movement? At least i thought that's the reasoning why this works only up to 1080p (which would be preserved, in that case).
I think this could be quite useful for the next Nexus http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/09/imint-wants-to-bring-real-time-video-stabilization-to-android/
TL;DR: Unhappy with noisy photos/videos from camera. Not sure if I'm being unreasonable, or if this device has hardware/software issues. Your thoughts?
I'm curious as to what other people's thoughts are on the Pixel camera? The pictures and videos on this phone do not seem up to par with what Google represented, or else I possibly received bad hardware. Here's my experience so far...
I ordered the device from the Google Store and received it early December. First thing I did was update the firmware and updated the apps, which included the Google Camera app. Every photo I took, in varying degrees of lighting, seemed to have a great deal of noise or pixelation. Even 4K video in daylight looked like I ran it through a noise filter in editing software. I contacted Google Support and they ran through a series of tests while the engineer was remote viewing my screen. We deleted the Google Camera app's cache/data, put the device in safe mode, and performed a factory reset. After each step the photos looked no better than before. The engineer then stated my hardware was defective and issued an RMA for the device. Now that I'm on my second Pixel XL, I can't say the camera is any better and I'm still disappointed with the results, but I'm reluctant to contact Google again because I feel like it's more than likely a software/firmware issue at this point.
How could both devices (brand new, second was not a refurbished device) have the same hardware defect and this not be a widely reported issue? I've read articles about the "Halo" issue and people having pink lines on the camera viewer, but Google claimed it was software related and I believe they already released a fix. I've also flashed ROMs before on old devices that didn't have proper drivers, which resulted in similar experiences similar to my current problem when I knew for a fact the hardware was just fine.
Anyway, sorry for the meandering post, but I'd love for anyone to share their thoughts about the camera. Does it live up to your expectations and take photos worthy of the highest rated smartphone camera of all time?
In well lit environment, high megapixel cameras win for me due to detail. But for low light, this camera is awesome
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Pictures sometimes turn out fantastic, and sometimes average.
The camera seems to not know what to focus in on which leads to weird looking images. Also, for some reason, my pictures all have a somewhat yellow tint.
Maybe my expectations for "the highest rated smartphone camera...ever" was set a bit too high.
Mr Hoff I would have to say no, as the camera works awesome I would say its the best smartphone camera on the market, and that is even without ois to boot.
As much as I don't wanna admit it but iPhone 7 camera is definitely a better all around camera. There's no debating it. Yes the pixel can beat it out in perfect circumstances taking still photos.. but the iPhone exceeds in more areas.
The pixel is horrible at capturing the slightest movement without blurring the picture. I heard this is because the camera uses a slow shutter speed compared to other devices.
Same thing goes for videos. Taking a video of someone standing there talking.. the pixel will likely win..But try to follow a moving person or object and that's where you notice the lack of OIS and the pixel looses by far.
I take riding pictures (BMX) with a normal DSLR but always have my cell phone to take some pics to.. the pixel doesn't do much better than my s5 did
aholeinthewor1d said:
As much as I don't wanna admit it but iPhone 7 camera is definitely a better all around camera. There's no debating it. Yes the pixel can beat it out in perfect circumstances taking still photos.. but the iPhone exceeds in more areas.
The pixel is horrible at capturing the slightest movement without blurring the picture. I heard this is because the camera uses a slow shutter speed compared to other devices.
Same thing goes for videos. Taking a video of someone standing there talking.. the pixel will likely win..But try to follow a moving person or object and that's where you notice the lack of OIS and the pixel looses by far.
I take riding pictures (BMX) with a normal DSLR but always have my cell phone to take some pics to.. the pixel doesn't do much better than my s5 did
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. This is my biggest issue as well. I have a newborn and half my pictures are blurry due to him moving his arms when I'm taking pics.
Here's what I'm referring to. Granted this is low light, but when the camera does hit the light you can really see the noise I'm referring to. This can't be normal.
4K Video taken tonight: https://goo.gl/photos/MCTbfb96Cpw74bkFA
If you're having issues with motion blur (will be more prominent in middle and low light) disable HDR for those shots. It keeps the "shutter" capturing longer. Your image quality will take a hit but the motion blur should be reduced.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I'm disappointed but I'm so used to my rx100 so it's not fair at all
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
biggiestuff said:
I'm disappointed but I'm so used to my rx100 so it's not fair at all
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an rx100m3 as well, which is partly why I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable. Guess I'll have to keep carrying that with me when I want higher picture quality.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
chrisstl said:
I have an rx100m3 as well, which is partly why I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable. Guess I'll have to keep carrying that with me when I want higher picture quality.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that plays a huge part in it. There isn't a smart phone camera that can compare. Once you've become accustomed to the quality of the Sony, it's hard to downgrade. I take it with me to anything that is going to involve low light.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
The low light is absolute garbage, worse than the Note 4 I had before it.
I loved my note 7, the panoramas were amazing on that phone. Thought camera was great on pixel but after more use I have some quirks I dislike. If I want to take quality photos or video I bring my Nikon D3300.
Are you guys trying to compare a DSLR vs. a smartphone camera in low light?
Ok, consider this. Low light shots require a lot of light collection. How much bigger is a DSLR lens vs. a smartphone lens.
I'm looking at the Pixel XL lens, and it's about 2.5mm in diameter. That's about 5 mm squared of area.
A DSLR lens would be about 2 inches wide, that's 50.8mm in diameter or about 2000 mm squared of area.
The difference in light captured in low light, with the same exposure, is a factor of 400!
It is a miracle that enough light is even captured by a tiny smartphone camera lens for low light shots. If I were completely unaware of the actual quality of pictures but was only given the specs of both cameras, I would say that they couldn't even be compared!
nabbed said:
Are you guys trying to compare a DSLR vs. a smartphone camera in low light?
Ok, consider this. Low light shots require a lot of light collection. How much bigger is a DSLR lens vs. a smartphone lens.
I'm looking at the Pixel XL lens, and it's about 2.5mm in diameter. That's about 5 mm squared of area.
A DSLR lens would be about 2 inches wide, that's 50.8mm in diameter or about 2000 mm squared of area.
The difference in light captured in low light, with the same exposure, is a factor of 400!
It is a miracle that enough light is even captured by a tiny smartphone camera lens for low light shots. If I were completely unaware of the actual quality of pictures but was only given the specs of both cameras, I would say that they couldn't even be compared!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
chrisstl said:
I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is not a general consensus, but this is what I got out of reviews of modern flagship phone cameras.
iPhone 7, Galaxy S7, Pixel cameras have similar capabilities in terms of hardware. What makes a difference is the software processing and noise reduction.
Galaxy S7 seems to have the best algorithms for noise reduction, and the fastest autofocus in very dark scenery. That means less noise, and sharper photos in the dark for the Galaxy. Pixel has an excellent HDR, with good color reproduction in HDR screnery, where dark and bright objects are present simultaneously. iPhone has a good all around camera not excelling at any particular feature.
That said, all smartphone cameras are not even close to large dedicated cameras - the sizes of lenses and sensors are literally two orders of magnitude better in low light. At the current level of technology, you cannot replace a large camera with a smartphone in low light.
Honestly, there's really not much of an upgrade from the 6P to the Pixel camera.
I've actually been pretty impressed. Coming from the S7 Edge the Pixel does not offer huge improvements in any single area, but subtle improvements across the board. When it comes to the camera, I spent weeks and hundreds of shots in different settings trying to decide which camera was better as I was weighing the decision of which device to keep. Ultimately, I found them both to be great but the Pixel seemed to do a little better when taking shots of my kids who are 1, 3 and 5 and are thus always moving and very active. I'm quite surprised with some of the comments in this thread because I've been quite pleased. When comparing photos to those of my wife's iPhone 6s+, the gap becomes a little larger and the Pixel is significantly better in most every situation, especially with moving targets. I cannot comment on comparisons to the iP7 because I don't have one and would only base my opinion on the many reviews I've read and watched over the last month or so. The one aspect of my S7 Edge camera I really miss is the wide angle FFC and probably the S7 Edge low light performance overall.
In all honesty, I do have mild regrets about keeping the Pixel and selling the S7Edge. Overall I think the S7 is a slightly better device with its design, waterproofing, form factor, and features. But the Pixel is solid enough to get me through to Pixel XL 2 or Galaxy S9.
chrisstl said:
I'm certainly not comparing a DSLR vs a smartphone. And also an rx100 isn't a DSLR either. My disappointment, which I didn't really mention, was mentally comparing my iPhone 6+ and the Pixel XL. I think I'm having issue with the HDR overcompensating and causing noise.
Edit: To clarify my rx100m3 comment, I just wished that a smartphone camera quality could improve to the point where I would be comfortable leaving the rx100m3 at home sometimes. I thought the Pixel would bring me closer to that dream, but it hasn't.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The RX100 is darn good and can give some of the lower DSLR/mirrorless camera competition. The video you posted is the incredibly hard for a sensor this size and we know the pixel is not great at low light. RX100 is also a excellent F/1.8 lense on it.
I think you are just expecting too much out of a sensor much smaller than the RX100s. Assuming the IMX 378 has the same aspect ratio to the RX100 it is 4.1 time smaller in area.
IMX378 - 7.81mm diagonal (28mm^2 assuming same W/H ratio as RX100)
RX100 III - 8.8mm x 13.2mm, 15.86mm diagonal, 116.16mm^2
If you are comfortable shooting manual and RAW try it on the pixel (manual camera is simple and effective). It will at least show you the limits of the sensor and should help you understand when and why it will fall on it face in certain lighting conditions. It will also so you why HDR+ is so amazing.
nabbed said:
I think this is not a general consensus, but this is what I got out of reviews of modern flagship phone cameras.
iPhone 7, Galaxy S7, Pixel cameras have similar capabilities in terms of hardware. What makes a difference is the software processing and noise reduction.
Galaxy S7 seems to have the best algorithms for noise reduction, and the fastest autofocus in very dark scenery. That means less noise, and sharper photos in the dark for the Galaxy. Pixel has an excellent HDR, with good color reproduction in HDR screnery, where dark and bright objects are present simultaneously. iPhone has a good all around camera not excelling at any particular feature.
That said, all smartphone cameras are not even close to large dedicated cameras - the sizes of lenses and sensors are literally two orders of magnitude better in low light. At the current level of technology, you cannot replace a large camera with a smartphone in low light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not agree that the S7 has better image processing. It is by far the worst by overdoing the noise reduction and overcompensating with too much sharpening. It is a better sensor/lense underneath though.
rancor22 said:
The RX100 is darn good and can give some of the lower DSLR/mirrorless camera competition. The video you posted is the incredibly hard for a sensor this size and we know the pixel is not great at low light. RX100 is also a excellent F/1.8 lense on it.
I think you are just expecting too much out of a sensor much smaller than the RX100s. Assuming the IMX 378 has the same aspect ratio to the RX100 it is 4.1 time smaller in area.
IMX378 - 7.81mm diagonal (28mm^2 assuming same W/H ratio as RX100)
RX100 III - 8.8mm x 13.2mm, 15.86mm diagonal, 116.16mm^2
If you are comfortable shooting manual and RAW try it on the pixel (manual camera is simple and effective). It will at least show you the limits of the sensor and should help you understand when and why it will fall on it face in certain lighting conditions. It will also so you why HDR+ is so amazing.
I would not agree that the S7 has better image processing. It is by far the worst by overdoing the noise reduction and overcompensating with too much sharpening. It is a better sensor/lense underneath though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, but do you own any of the phones/cameras in question? Do you speak from experience or from rumor mill?
When I got my oneplus 5 I was drawn back by its pace and stamina, the camera isn't bad, but without OIS it can be a horrible solution especially if you're in motion and doing any kind of zooming.
Have tried every single camera apk available and none offer anything which may help at all..
At least until today when I tried the new (I think it's new ) feature on Google photos.
Open your camera.
Start a video which you know will have shake, zoom in, move around etc.
End the video and open up Google photos.
Click edit, then stabilise and it'll do the work for you.
I was quite shocked, the results are surprisingly amazing.
There are times when the frames overlap but in comparison to a very shaky experience it's absolutely brilliant.
Don't need anything but your phone, camera app and Google photos.
Processing is quick on the Oneplus 5 so not much of a problem but certainly not real time, take about 20 seconds for a short 30 second clip.
Hope this helps, it has with me. :good:
Hmmph, I actually like the EIS better then the OIS when taking video based on YouTube vids demonstrating against 2 other phones (OP5 vs both Samsung s8+ and iPhone 8+). It's a bit more stable then the OIS which in and of itself is pretty amazing. The only thing the OP5 lacks is the EIS on 1080p 60fps, EIS is only working on 1080p 30fps.
As far as photos are concerned, my OP5, on OOS 5.0.4, is way more then adequate for everyday stuff (Normal light) and just OK in low light. If you're zooming it is not very good but you can add a Magisk Module (Camera M) if you're rooted and it is significantly better (no water color painting effects in processing). I'm more then just an amateur photog so if I need anything important I make sure I have my DSLR so that may ultimately be the reason the camera is more then just fine for me.
Though it is nice that Google Photos added that post processing/algorithm
Eric214 said:
Hmmph, I actually like the EIS better then the OIS when taking video based on YouTube vids demonstrating against 2 other phones (OP5 vs both Samsung s8+ and iPhone 8+). It's a bit more stable then the OIS which in and of itself is pretty amazing. The only thing the OP5 lacks is the EIS on 1080p 60fps, EIS is only working on 1080p 30fps.
As far as photos are concerned, my OP5, on OOS 5.0.4, is way more then adequate for everyday stuff (Normal light) and just OK in low light. If you're zooming it is not very good but you can add a Magisk Module (Camera M) if you're rooted and it is significantly better (no water color painting effects in processing). I'm more then just an amateur photog so if I need anything important I make sure I have my DSLR so that may ultimately be the reason the camera is more then just fine for me.
Though it is nice that Google Photos added that post processing/algorithm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's great. I'm sharing something for people who have a problem with the evidently shakiness in comparison to an OIS capable device.
This is not a thread to discuss what's better. This is a thread for me to share a find, and for people if they didn't know about it and want to use it to say thank you, nothing more.
On a personal note, EIS is in no way a substitute for OIS, it just isn't..
Next time you're a passenger in a car, zoom in fully and record a stationary object whilst the car is in motion.
Your will have a very hard time with a lot of shaking.
An OIS enabled device has no problem in this regard..
Finally, If your don't require stabilisation for your device and you're happy the way it is then please refrain from commenting here, it's not helping anybody and there is no point, is rather not get the mods in to clear up this thread.
Thank you.
dladz said:
That's great. I'm sharing something for people who have a problem with the evidently shakiness in comparison to an OIS capable device.
This is not a thread to discuss what's better. This is a thread for me to share a find, and for people if they didn't know about it and want to use it to say thank you, nothing more.
On a personal note, EIS is in no way a substitute for OIS, it just isn't..
Next time you're a passenger in a car, zoom in fully and record a stationary object whilst the car is in motion.
Your will have a very hard time with a lot of shaking.
An OIS enabled device has no problem in this regard..
Finally, If your don't require stabilisation for your device and you're happy the way it is then please refrain from commenting here, it's not helping anybody and there is no point, is rather not get the mods in to clear up this thread.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol I do have a requirement for stabilization and the EIS out preforms an iPhone 8 and S8 with OIS. If you don't think so then your hands must shake like crazy.. As far as zooming all the way in, it is a digital zoom, not an optical zoom. I don't know a lot of people trying to zoom all the in on a video capture.
Eric214 said:
lol I do have a requirement for stabilization and the EIS out preforms an iPhone 8 and S8 with OIS. If you don't think so then your hands must shake like crazy.. As far as zooming all the way in, it is a digital zoom, not an optical zoom. I don't know a lot of people trying to zoom all the in on a video capture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is subjective, Just because you don't need sormthing doesn't mean others won't, and fyi my hands are like a rock and although I shouldn't have to justify myself, here's an example.
In my instance, I was driving along with my wife, me in the passenger seat, the Grenfell fire had just happened and I was capturing footage of it, we were on the dual carriageway way and the building was in the distance. I recorded with my HTC 10 at full zoom, this was perfect it adhered to every bump and jilt perfectly, a week later I tried with my oneplus, the oneplus was a mess, I have incredibly steady hands and it was impossible to get anything close to what the HTC offered.
I take a lot of photos and videos, some are zoomed some are not, some are moving some are stationary, some I have very little time to react to, not having OIS can mean a missed shot, poor video or both.
Furthermore I'm not here to tell you that you need this, it's you who's made the decision to come here and start saying that this isn't required, great that's your opinion, this is not a place for that, this is a place for people who DO have a problem with the EIS and believe me there are many besides me.
If you like the solution I've posted then say thanks and be happy, it works very well hence the share, I don't care if you're happy and you don't need stabilization, but this isn't the place to talk about that.
There is a camera thread you can share your views on, not in this thread.
PS: Not trying to be funny with you, but i don't want this thread to be a place for people to come and blindly defend a phone that should have had a key feature, OIS should be mandatory, EIS simply doesn't cut it in comparison, ask any photographer and they'll tell you the same thing.
Eric214 said:
lol I do have a requirement for stabilization and the EIS out preforms an iPhone 8 and S8 with OIS. If you don't think so then your hands must shake like crazy.. As far as zooming all the way in, it is a digital zoom, not an optical zoom. I don't know a lot of people trying to zoom all the in on a video capture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I count as someone who has pretty stable hands and I can say that the EIS on OnePlus isn't even near OIS from an iPhone X/8 (idk about the S8, I don't have one so can't compare). EIS is good (and better than EIS from other phone brands) but isn't as good as OIS. Not like my videos come out as a blurry mess due to shaking but there's definitely a difference between X or 8.
david19au said:
I count as someone who has pretty stable hands and I can say that the EIS on OnePlus isn't even near OIS from an iPhone X/8 (idk about the S8, I don't have one so can't compare). EIS is good (and better than EIS from other phone brands) but isn't as good as OIS. Not like my videos come out as a blurry mess due to shaking but there's definitely a difference between X or 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With your videos if there's shake and if you upload it to YouTube it will remove some of it, but Google photos actually does a better job.. unless I'm seeing things.
Was surprised by the results.
dladz said:
With your videos if there's shake and if you upload it to YouTube it will remove some of it, but Google photos actually does a better job.. unless I'm seeing things.
Was surprised by the results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's not that terrible, I can look at the videos without vomiting :laugh:
dladz said:
When I got my oneplus 5 I was drawn back by its pace and stamina, the camera isn't bad, but without OIS it can be a horrible solution especially if you're in motion and doing any kind of zooming.
Have tried every single camera apk available and none offer anything which may help at all..
At least until today when I tried the new (I think it's new ) feature on Google photos.
Open your camera.
Start a video which you know will have shake, zoom in, move around etc.
End the video and open up Google photos.
Click edit, then stabilise and it'll do the work for you.
I was quite shocked, the results are surprisingly amazing.
There are times when the frames overlap but in comparison to a very shaky experience it's absolutely brilliant.
Don't need anything but your phone, camera app and Google photos.
Processing is quick on the Oneplus 5 so not much of a problem but certainly not real time, take about 20 seconds for a short 30 second clip.
Hope this helps, it has with me. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You were recording with stock OOS camera app, right? I know that in case of a stabilization in video, GCam can give much worse results
Sent from my OnePlus 5 using XDA Labs
Pshemo__ said:
You were recording with stock OOS camera app, right? I know that in case of a stabilization in video, GCam can give much worse results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it was the stock camera, I know my cameras and I know my phone's, ROMs, mods.
As I've said in the OP there is no combination of camera APK or ROM that gives an above par experience which would be comparable to OIS.
Simply put I've scoured every option that there is out there for a viable solution and there simply isn't one.
YouTube has its own algorithm for stabilization, as does Google photos.. the Google photos version is superior, I'm simply making people aware as it's helped me out.
I'm not sure if anyone here has had an OIS capable device but the experience compared to the stock OOS camera is literally night and day.
If anyone can't see that then they're either in denial or they have sormthing wrong with their eyes, it's that obvious.
Hello,
I have a silly question but I am very curious about it so I thought I would ask the experts .
Would a ported Google Camera take advantage of the S20 Ultra hardware or would it produce exactly the same photos as on Pixel? For example, would the Portrait mode improve for photos from the rear camera since S20 Ultra has ToF sensor and Pixel doesn't?
Or would pictures in general improve assuming there would be pixel binning from S20 Ultra and Google's HDR+?
Thank you for your insight
Rule of thumb is GCAM will always increase quality, Historically a custom build would need to be built and will most likely need root to take advantage of all 3 cameras. Most likely it will only be main cam.
Enigma_cpl03 said:
Rule of thumb is GCAM will always increase quality, Historically a custom build would need to be built and will most likely need root to take advantage of all 3 cameras. Most likely it will only be main cam.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So essentially while one could use GCam in certain situations it would never be a 100% replacement of the Samsung camera app, right? That's a shame, from the S20 Ultra reviews the picture quality (HDR) looked quite inconsistent which is not something I ever experienced with my Pixel, hence the idea of using GCam with S20.
I was especially curious about portrait mode from the rear camera with ToF which my Pixel doesn't have -> hopefully improved object separation, and Night Sight (if pixel binning is done on hardware level + software processing from Google).
I'm guessing pixel binning is done on hardware, so you'll only get 12MP photos from the main sensor using GCam. Historically only the main sensor + wide angle are exposed via camera2 API by Samsung, so those lenses will likely work fine. Remains to be seen if telephoto is exposed as well, GCam on that hardware zoom could be dope.
kvell36 said:
I'm guessing pixel binning is done on hardware, so you'll only get 12MP photos from the main sensor using GCam. Historically only the main sensor + wide angle are exposed via camera2 API by Samsung, so those lenses will likely work fine. Remains to be seen if telephoto is exposed as well, GCam on that hardware zoom could be dope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pixel binning is done on the SW side. You can't change the size of the sensor hardware wise. It's always a 108mp sensor, and the SW bins it down to 12mp.
VZTech said:
Pixel binning is done on the SW side. You can't change the size of the sensor hardware wise. It's always a 108mp sensor, and the SW bins it down to 12mp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yea it's done in the software but I mean to GCam it'll likely show up as a 12MP sensor due to the firmware Samsung will bake into the ROM, meaning for our purposes it's essentially at hardware level. In their camera app the default is 12MP so that will likely be the format exposed. You see this with the selfie cameras in current Samsung phones which are 10MP but cropped to 6.5MP by default, and that's the only resolution we get in 3rd party apps.
kvell36 said:
Well yea it's done in the software but I mean to GCam it'll likely show up as a 12MP sensor due to the firmware Samsung will bake into the ROM, meaning for our purposes it's essentially at hardware level. In their camera app the default is 12MP so that will likely be the format exposed. You see this with the selfie cameras in current Samsung phones which are 10MP but cropped to 6.5MP by default, and that's the only resolution we get in 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm no expert, but I'm not sure this is the case. Guess time will tell.
Do you know if Samsung offer some custom camera SDK?
I mean Camera2 May be insufficient for the 108mp nonabinning sensor. Your average demosaic algorithm will make pitiful mess out of it.
So I think anything but dedicated software will make mess out of the camera.
Ideally one would like to set different exposure timing for the 9 sub pixels and do some weird maths to get large sensor like dynamic range for example. That is what is hot about this sensor. Running stupid software written for regular 12m sensor is waste.
I just took some photos at Best Buy, dont think Gcam is needed. Pics looked really good.
My original comment hurt someone's feelings. I have edited it because of that.
_Dennis_ said:
But, all the reviews are crap and you canceled your phone.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you a wiseasz? I said i was going to return it, if it wasn't any good. Your post is is unnecessary.
My original comment hurt someone's feelings. I have edited it because of that.
plant_ said:
So essentially while one could use GCam in certain situations it would never be a 100% replacement of the Samsung camera app, right? That's a shame, from the S20 Ultra reviews the picture quality (HDR) looked quite inconsistent which is not something I ever experienced with my Pixel, hence the idea of using GCam with S20.
I was especially curious about portrait mode from the rear camera with ToF which my Pixel doesn't have -> hopefully improved object separation, and Night Sight (if pixel binning is done on hardware level + software processing from Google).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion, it is way too early to put much stock in any reviews being done on the S20 Ultra camera. It is so early - only a few handsets out right now - more will be shipped this week - and like most past samsung devices, Updates that improve and often fix issues that were discovered pre launch or even post launch, will surely address the issues (most if not all) that have been raised by these early reviews.
Bottom line, Samsung is putting a lot into the success of this phone and most of that success will be driven by it's camera. You can be sure that Samsung will do everything possible to make it the best that it can be. IMHO.
Is there currently a version compatible with the s20 ultra?
Eckono42 said:
Is there currently a version compatible with the s20 ultra?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
try Urnyx05-v2.3
https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/f/changelog1016/
I tested previously on a demo unit (snapdragon); the main (12mp) and ultrawide lenses seemed to capture and save images; tele lens did not toggle though
Thanks I sure will.
I think if eventually will, the level of functionally ported over will be a different thing.
No matter what I do I cannot get any of the lens or sensors to save without binning... They go down to 12.5 MP in any mode or setting or camera app. Is this a software bug? Why is Google forcing binning in non-low light situations!?! This this just me?
Same here. I'm sure it's on purpose, but I do mean to some time do research as to why binning is enforced in every situation.
Same in RAW?
georgiapi said:
Same in RAW?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, same in RAW too.
Quoted from this article...
Here
"It doesn’t actually shoot 50MP images, but rather it uses pixel binning, which combines the information of four imaging pixels on the camera sensor into one superpixel. This pixel binning process effectively turns the main 50MP sensor into a 12.5MP sensor that captures 150% more light than the previous Pixel 5."
Like I get that the binning and all and why, but what would be super awesome if someone figures out how to software unlock the option for full "un-binned" resolution... Since that is likely what Google will do in a few years thought FW.
Yeah Lou from unbox therapy from his P6P video said it does the pixel binning and actually doesn't shoot in 50mp
Uh every single review I've watched or read specifically mentions binning down to 12.5 MP no matter what. What made you think you can save a 50MP?
nxt said:
Uh every single review I've watched or read specifically mentions binning down to 12.5 MP no matter what. What made you think you can save a 50MP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some phones do let you take photos at the default sensor size without binning, some phones turn binning off to get an optical zoom via cropping without the need for another lens, i suspect this is how the Pro is getting respectable 20x photos from a 4x optical lens to be honest, a mixutre of cropping and SuperRes.
yeah samsungl ets you shoot RAW without binning. shame Google dont
I thought I heard somewhere the binning is hardware binning on this device not software based which may explain why.
I've read it doesn't give the option for full 50MB pictures which I hope is changed soon
Nekromantik said:
yeah samsungl ets you shoot RAW without binning. shame Google dont
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats the big deal with raw? I am a wedding photographer and yeah raw has saved my bacon more than once but my DSLRs don't have Googles computational photography behind them and the overwhelming majority of the time there is nothing to save, the software does a sterling job.
MrBelter said:
Whats the big deal with raw? I am a wedding photographer and yeah raw has saved my bacon more than once but my DSLRs don't have Googles computational photography behind them and the overwhelming majority of the time there is nothing to save, the software does a sterling job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For photo pros raw 50MP image would be amazing.
Plus I agree with some people that the Google Photo AI was great on previous pixels as they were small lenses and not great but now you got 50MP large sensor you dont need as much computation processing.
I took a raw photo on one of my DSLRs with a £1,149 L lens on it and the same photo on my Pixel 5 and i could not get the DSLR photo anywhere near as good as the Pixel 5 shot, you could tell the DSLR image came from a much larger sensor but the image was much noiser as i pushed it to try to match the dynamic range of the Pixel 5 shot.
Lots of possible variances there. The phone does it all for you and doctors the hell out of the image. And does a good job, for what it is.
A DSLR requires the photographer to set up the capture. I shoot a Canon 7D Mark II across several L-Lenses and although phone cams are doing well for point and shot, don't chit yourself trying to say they are better.
this camera system just flat out SUCKS!