Hi All Dear XDA Members,
As most of you will know, I'm XDA addict and active member who started a lot of threads in order to try to keep XDA as organized as possible (see: the Q&A/T thread template: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46281795&postcount=4, which also contains the links to the Index project and the Ask Away help thread). Yet, I noticed that XDA has become so huge that it's grown out of it's "jacket". It became a forum which looks like a "forest which can not been seen because of all the trees". Newcomers can hardly find their way in this forest, ( They still keep registering to our forum but hardly post anything, let alone that they will start a thread) even more experienced users have difficulties or stop develeloping new ROM's and/or Threads. The layout of XDA is, speaking in modern terms, old fashioned at this very moment and if there will be no facelift within a short while, XDA is IMHO doomed to follow certain social media, who are loosing a lot of followers at this very moment. If you are familiar with social media, you know exactly which media I'm referring too. So, that's the reason I started this thread: How can we resuscitate XDA, cause that's what's needed, to be and stay future proof? IMHO, XDA is one of the, if not the, most important Smartphone forum and it should stay that forever, but changes are needed to achieve this. One of the changes could be a chat function, but most of all there needs to become a new a structure of how XDA is build up untill now. I'm convinced that the XDA staff is aware of this and working very hard to keep XDA future-proof. As it is now, it will be very hard to compete with the modern social media applications. I'm a diehard fan of XDA and that's why I started this thread. Making XDA future proof will be a hell of a job and therefore the staff of XDA can use IMO input from members, like you and me. Just plain and simple: I ask you all to come with information, suggestions and ideas how to make XDA future proof. Help the staff of XDA in this huge project of keeping it alive , kicking and well. Vbulletin is not the most ideal platform anymore, we need something else (see Reddit, etc).
kindest reards, kuzibri
BTW1: I do not suggest that XDA should use the Reddit platform or something the like
BTW2: A more social media approach would and could benefit XDA in the near future.
BTW3: I'm a great fan of the XDA Labs app for Android. Maybe an idea as a starting point?
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
This forum has grown MASSIVELY since it was first started back in 2002. I think we now have over 6.6 million members. The vbulletin forum platform was never really intended to handle such a large amount of content or userbase.
We've been on the vbulletin forum platform for a long time now. We've made a large amount of custom modifications, plugins, and tweaks, in order to add a lot of what you see in the forums today. A lot of it is the things you don't see behind the scenes. The massive amounts of custom coding that has been done, that cannot be easily transferred to other systems.
Of course we are aware that the forums are at breaking point in terms of capacity of both content and users. And of course other platform configurations are becoming more popular, with sites such as Reddit. But making a switch to another platform would be a massive massive undertaking. It's not like we can just copy and paste the database.
We are aware that this type of platform is aging, and needs to be kept a little more up to date. And I know the owners are well aware of all of this. It's not that they don't care. They do, more than anything. XDA is their baby, they are heavily invested in it, and they want it to keep growing and to remain the world's premier Smartphone development forums.
I don't know much personally, but I do know there are long term plans to look at updating or switching platforms, to better accommodate the sheer amount of users, and the large amount of valuable content. it will come, but due to the sheer scale of the task, it's going to be a very long term project for the owners I'd say.
MishaalRahman said:
Can you give some ideas on what can be done in terms of the layout?
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I have some ideas which are not ready yet to be posted/published, that's why I started this thread, hoping to get some usefull information and ideas.
BTW, it's not only the layout that needs an update, but the entire structure of XDA in order to stay future proof.
kindest regards, kuzibri
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
svetius said:
We already have a design for the 2018 template completed. We begun the implementation earlier this year but had to pause because we had to work on other things, such as XDA Feed and yes a new chat product we're working on. We're trying to hire a new full-time developer to help us on the 2018 template, which we expect to take about six months (it's pretty involved).
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yes a chat product is needed
The messaging part is very complicted for me till now
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
Webern said:
Search could be better. It's hard to find stuff. The way forums are arranged is a mess too; one for questions, and one with a sticky marked "no questions" right above all the questions! Note: nobody reads stickies, and policing of questions is poor so they stick around long enough to make it look like perhaps questions are welcome after all! On a thread the navigation choices are bizarre to say the least: a button for page 1,2,3,11,> (whatever that is) and last. Well...it's going to be last every time, isn't it? So you can get to the latest posts on a thread you're interested in. Really, this is a pre-Stack Exchange site; possibly learn from them in terms of allowing users to vote threads/comments up/down to give moderators less work (ie they can just skim the worst offenders).
(Apologies if you were just talking about tweaking a css file to change hover colours or something)
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We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
Darth said:
We welcome reports about anything violating rules, but also threads out of place. You don't even need to report every question in a general thread, if there's a lot, you can report one and make a note in the report that the whole subsection needs some cleaning. Or, report them all, up to you. :good:
We really rely on members to point stuff out to us, cause we do have a limited sized volunteer mod staff, so we can't see everything out there.
Cheers! :highfive:
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Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
@kuzibri
as always you are too kind
a couple of years ago I would have liked to have been a moderator, but right now I don't know I have time right now
Sent from my sailfish using XDA Labs
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Hi my dearest friend,
I realy think that you are perfectly fit to be a moderator, but it's of course up to you. I just suggested a new way of appointing Mod's and recommended you and Robbie'for the job. I really think that good and active RC's can become a Mod without going to the whole XDA process that's needed to become one. They are very short of Mod's, so make the process easier for active RC's.
BTW, I have all the time in the world since I retired a few months ago!!
kindest regards, kuzibri
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
kuzibri said:
Hi my dear friend,
You're absolutely right. There is a lot of mess going around on XDA and I can understand that you cannot see everything due to limited mod staff. A suggestion might be to make the process to become a Mod easier than it is now. Active and good RC's can become a Mod, IMHO, without the process they have to go through now, which in a lot of cases leads to RC's not appointing for the Mod's status. Instead of going to the Mod's process, I would suggest that you give and explain to RC's what they have to do what a Mod needs to do to become a Mod, just my 2 cents. Of course there is a limitation in this suggestion: the minimum time for an RC to become a Mod more or less automatically should be, IMO, at least two years in which he/she proved his/hers additional value to XDA judged by the Mod's staff. In this way, you will get far more Mod's and XDA will be cleaner than ever.
kindest regards, kuzibri
BTW, It's obvious IMO that the Mod's staff decides which RC is fit to become a Mod without going to the whole process or not, let that be clear.
BTW2, I'm personally do not have the intention to become a Mod in this way (unless your Mod's staff decides so), but I have two suggestions/recommandation regarding two persons of whom I think they are very capable of doing this: @Robbie P and @sd_shadow. They are both very critical and XDA adepts.
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Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
Darth said:
Hi!
I'll respond to a couple things you've mentioned.
- There's no such thing as a fast track to becoming a mod. There's multiple rounds of questionnaires for a very good reason. We need to get a feel for a person's instincts based on how they answer. And it doesn't matter a person's title on xda, or history here, everyone goes through the same process. Of course history matters with the decision though, we obviously only look at upstanding members who are a definite asset to the site.
- No one becomes a Moderator based on length on Xda alone, there's many factors looked at. And not everyone will become a mod, based on many possible factors too.
- If there are messes out there, hopefully they get reported, because that's the best way to get it addressed. It's a massive site, and yes we do patrol and try to keep things tidy, but we don't see all. We really rely on members reporting issues.
- And the gentlemen you mention need to apply like everyone else. Cause again, no, we don't just appoint anyone. All members interested need to apply and go through the same process.
We encourage anyone interested to apply of course. And best of luck to anyone who does. :highfive:
Hope that helps clear some things up. :good:
Cheers,
Darth
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Hi,
thanks for the lenghty explanation, all clear. Was just a suggestion to solve the shortage of Mod's in an easy and fast way.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Robbie P said:
Hi kuzibri, great to see you are still around. Are you suggesting that certain RCs should be given minor moderating powers?
With respect to me, I have not been very active at all lately on XDA, been sort of expecting a PM from JJD every time I log on
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Yes my very dear friend, I'm still around. Due to the shortage of Mod's @Darth mentioned, I proposed to make the most active and valuable RC's a Mod without going to the entire XDA process that's needed for that. But as you can read by the answer of @Darth this is no possibility at all. IMHO, they missed the "train" in that by staying to their rules (which of course I can understand fully), cause, also IMHO, very good RC's (they are not appointed as Recognized Contributors for nothing and this title is closely related to and in line with the work of Mod's, e.g. helping people to find the right way or reacting on wrong posts by reporting them, only Mod's have much more power) are also capable of becoming good Mod's with a newly developed guidance/manual from the Mod's committee what are the demands for an RC to become a Mod in this new way. Maybe this idea is too revolutenary at this very moment, but the saying is: "when you do not shoot, you can also not miss". Of course, when this suggestion would be accepted, the Mod's committee should keep a close eye on these RC's and look if they are fit to be a Mod or not, if not, they will be an RC again. Seems logical to me,
kindest regards, kuzibri
Suggestions
Hi all,
any other suggestions to make XDA future proof?? Cause at this very moment XDA is, certainly for new members, a labyrinth. In general, even despite the introduction of XDA Assist, they cannot find their way to what they are looking for, so XDA needs to become more accessible and easier to navigate. In fact the entire site should be redesigned, but due to the massiveness of this site, this is an unrealistic task, unfortunately.
kindest regards, kuzibri
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
zelendel said:
I personally think making more social is a mistake. Well at least on the devs side. Most don't like dealing with users to begin with and already block pms and mentions. So adding a chat function I see is just wasting resources. I recall the last time it was brought up with a resounding no.
As for staying sutures proof that will be hard. With the push for tighter security on our devices it is only a matter of time before the majority of devices can't be unlocked and leaves users only looking for apps.
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Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi,
many thanks for your valuable feedback. With this thread I tried to stir up some things to see whatever is possible. What do you mean with "Dev's do not like dealing with users", cause that's what XDA stands for? This amazes me a bit. Regarding the future proof remark, you may be right in the near future.
kindest regards, kuzibri
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Really? How many devs do you see having conversations that mean anything with users? One of the biggest complaints from devs are the users. Mostly due to the fact that they won't do anything for themselves. Why do you think most teams use things like slack, or telegram (the devs don't really even talk much there in the public rooms, they have private ones set up in the side to talk shop) when I say dev I mean the real devs. Not script kiddies and compile jockies.
That is what xda stood for. It is no longer that way.
Nothing is future proof. Never has been never will be. It will end just like the days of freely modding your device. It all ends.
Hi my very dear friends,
no more new ideas or suggestions how to keep XDA future proof? It's my personal idea that the interest in posting on XDA is rapidly diminishing. If true, this would be a very disappointing way to handle XDA. It meant and still means IMHO a lot for members and newbies to be informed about the latest innovations regarding smartphones and giving them details about it. Also for helping people to get out of trouble with their device or solve other problems, XDA is the place to be. Whenever there are no reactions to this post within two weeks, I will ask a friendly Mod to close this thread. The reason for this is the presumable lack of interest in this subject and thereby there exists no need anymore to continue it nor to keep monitoring it.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Related
As a member of XDA i am proud that there is a place where people, ideas and developers can come together to work out problems and create new, better, faster software.
I love the ideas and the creations here, but i am somewhat tired of the negativity and "flaming" going on in some of the forums. Specifically Samsung Galaxy forums, with each passing day/week there is an exponentially increasing amount of NEW THREADS, pretty much dedicated to venting anger at the phone's manufacturer. While some claims do have merit (crappy GPS), other complaints are ill-researched, (samsung to blame for not releasing froyo, how did rogers release it to me?).
There was even a "Supposed" samsung rep. SamsungJohn, who reached out to the captivate community on the behalf of Samsung. (once again supposedly) If he was in fact from samsung he received the WORST welcome from the community, he was badgered and hammered with anger before given a chance to explain what his goal/role here was. In a recent post it was referred to him "stepping on the XDA hornets nest". Honestly it looked more like a forum full of angry 10 year olds, although to be COMPLETELY FAIR, 99% of the members "flaming" (to SamsungJohn or in other posts) ARE NOT DEVELOPERS OR PROGRAMMERS just bored people that feel XDA is a good place to vent anger. IT IS NOT.
If you have actual hardware problems with your phone, flood the manufacturers forum NOT OURS! If they had as many complaint posts as we do on a public forum they wouldn't be able to deny any issues exist, you could link to them, they would be right there, ON THEIR SITE.
I love my phone, for any flaws it has, any other phone will have another, sometimes we can fix it here, sometimes we cant. It is understandable in this day and age that many times products are rushed out the door and moved on to the next. Its the world we live in today. Accept it or check out..
Please remember XDA is a place to come together for ideas and working out problems NOT NEEDLESSLY COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM!!!
Speak my man!Perhaps that is the most right opinion I've seen on the forums!
PS:Love your PC setup dude!If it had a 69xxHD ATi it would be my dream machine!
Peace, love, harmony. Everyone, repeat. Hehe.
There will always be flaming. We have pretty diligent moderators that find the offending members and take proper action. Everyone can help out here just by being nice to one another. This is a community. A community benefits when its citizens are helpful, friendly, and contributive.
Well said! The forum needs more people to be constructive in their postings rather than petulant and needy.
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
mputtr said:
This OP should have his post stickied in all the galaxy S forums IMO.
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if i was a moderator or web dev of this site the message would pop up, and you would have to agree before veiwing the forums!
I know its been getting bad. But they have stepped up and got more moderators. So it will get better. Plus all the new devices that keep getting added. So much for everyone to keeo up with. Thats why as you know the report post is there. Helps alot.
@OP, I couldn't agree more with you, with the recent influx of new users into XDA via their new purchases and nearly everyone owning a smartphone we will have to adapt to them and their misconceptions of what XDA is. Although they may misunderstand what we are about we are always trying to show them what our roots were and still are today. We try to keep it under control to the best of out abilities, but with a ratio of moderators to members being 40:1,000,000 it can be an uphill battle at times. Thanks for sharing your opinion and we hope to improve down the road.
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
Trusselo said:
yes, i have been using the "REPORT" button, on an increasing basis.
is there by any chance at least a single moderator dedicated to each phone, with experience with that device to know what is un-related/ garbage information/threads.
also some threads deserve deletion rather than closing. just wasting space with usually no information what-soever
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yep, we have this in place. They are called Forum Specific Moderators, and have a title like
"HTC XYZ Forum Moderator"
They are responsible for a small number of forums, to try and spot this stuff
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
Trusselo said:
Im not sure if i have come across my "captivate" mod, is there any easy way to find the mod for your forum? could an easy way be added? link in each phone's forum? (for issues PM...)
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Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
pulser_g2 said:
Yep, though it seems the assigned mod for your forum was recently promoted, and therefore there is no "assigned" mod right now. When you get one, their name will appear at the lower right of any of the general/dev subforums.
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well that explains a lot
Hopefully we get a new mod soon!
Herp Derp Captivate XDA
Even with the influx of immature morons, this place is still two thousand times more coherent and mature than any iPhone modification related forum.
I swear, all I see over on those boards are a bunch of people crying and cursing and yelling and making threats because jailbreaks and unlocks are slow to release.
I am loving your new member posts, very informative and a great way to get informed about this site!
Agreement
I completely agree with you man.
I think we need two things,
First of all, people who respect the earth and its benefits.
And secondly, some respectful people who watch and guide people who don't know the value of being beneficial and so respectful, one by one.
---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ----------
I really consist with this oppinion that an improved society just can born and keep on by everyone's usefull endeavour. In the other word a wise intellectual man/woman cann't grow up and even say a little bit of his/her knowledge in a tidy palce.
So, be in the way and enjoy your home.
Hopping success and enhancement.
I could not agree with you more.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using XDA
This is the truest thing in the world. Been happening a lot on my devices forum, the flaming amongst members and devs.
It just shouldn't happen
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attract any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
trevd said:
I have noticed that in the Galaxy Tab Forum, It must the target demographic that the device attracts as owners. I Joke obviously, I don't want to attrach any unwanted attention
I think XDA suffers a little bit from how big it is. It's probably before a lot of manufacturers sites on search result for what ever normal people type into Google and with 4.5 million members you're going to attract a wide cross section of humanity......There might even be some women on here Nah There's no women on the internet.
Speaking of XDA being a place of coming together and solving problems, let me throw a couple out there
Maybe there should stop new members creating threads on any forum.... drill it home to use the site properly. I think slatedroid or one of the forums focused towards the more "exotic" Android devices does that. Frustrating though that might be it will make people think is it really worth the effort, You could measure a members "dedication" by not only post but visit frequency and what types of posts they view, so even if they feel they cannot help with replies they still get to post eventually. Although that last sentence makes XDA sound like a bit of a cult.
That would probably have stop me from posting my first though (Ironically a Samsung Galaxy Tab external SDCard booting method) but you win some/you lose some
In Fact If you want to get a little more draconian. you could introduce perma-bans for all sorts of minor indiscretions such as anyone who post the words "vs" In a thread title as we don't really need another thread about who's dog barks the loudest, anyone complaining about lack of support from the manufacturer, there are more but they escape me now
So in summary. PermaBan The Lot Of Em'
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Hi, I am new to XDA, and I just wanted to express my admiration of your ideas, as well as to the OP, truly a superb insight.
Idea: There should be a demarcation of topics and subforums known as the Noob forums. Unless and until you contribute something OTHER than a post (eg, a ROM, theme, or hack perhaps), you remain in the Noob forums.
Good idea?
Sent from my LG-VM701 using Tapatalk 2
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
github said:
It's a good start I suppose. Here are some questions:
Does this change how users can report posts/users? Or is it still the troublesome bulky way of having to PM your forum mods and hope for the best? Sometimes days between reports and action?
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
In short: What should the average joe user who is, say, frustrated with [Q] in development for example, see in the upcoming days/weeks?
Hopefully this can stay on-topic
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It isn't necessarily a matter of days or weeks of when the new report system/mod involvement will roll out. The report system is being reworked to accommodate the mods and users alike. The old way was only beneficial to the users and create hassle for the mod team. This made it more difficult to deal with reports instead of simpler. The report system was made that way in the first place because, at the time, it was the right way to do it. As the user base exploded here, it became apparent that this was no longer viable.
The old report system dumped all reports into a massive pile and made it difficult to get to the important ones that needed immediate attention. This is why you now need to PM mods to address moving threads. That isn't an important issue as much as flaming, kanging, or warez is.
There is a new system in the works to address the issues that the old system raised as well as make it simpler for users to report posts. You'll just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out. Don't worry, good things come to those who wait.
As far as mod involvement, this is where the new [revised] site direction comes in. It's no longer an act of congress to ban or discipline someone. If a user does something retarded, he will be punished. It's that simple. However, not every mod can be in every place at once. That's the whole reason we have a report function. Especially if you see a forum needs deep cleaning, you should PM the forum mod first. If that doesn't work, PM any senior mod with your problem. There is also a Requests from the users to the mods and admins sticky thread here that you can utilize.
All in all, there are good things on the way. We just need to be patient while the kinks are worked out.
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
In colloquial English, an "Iron Fist" refers to the authority exerted by a powerful, unforgiving governing figure, extended variously to public or private life, used to describe a person who operates under strictly authoritarian principles. Ex. "Josef Stalin ruled the USSR with an iron fist" ...
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ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
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They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
github said:
Will we see more moderator involvement in the community, or will it continue to be a ghostland unless someone flashes the bat-signal for help? (I can only speak of EVO 4G forums).
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Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
cajunflavoredbob said:
They could have called it the "Turd Ferguson Project" for all I care. The name isn't important. However, this one being the Iron Fist that is set to unleash blows to those who think it's ok to use this site as their personal dumping ground seems fair to me.
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Spot on.
XperienceD said:
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
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Spot on. Our goal has been to assign mods to device forums that apply to them. When possible, we attempt to assign a few mods to each device forums such that time zone overlap occurs.
Some of the challenges we often encounter are:
Infrequent mod attendance; this is a volunteer (aka unpaid) role after all
Mods who switch to a new device at some point before a replacement mod is assigned - i.e. they now manage several forums
Obtaining quality mod candidates
Mods who decide to retire
ThaiDai said:
Even if I understand and respect the goal to provide better methods and tools for the admins and mods of this forums, I'd like to ask the question:
"Was it necessary to use the Iron Fist picture and publish it with this title?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist
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This was covered in the message:
Svetius said:
The name "Iron Fist" is a bit of an inside joke among the moderators--we are very clearly not an unyielding Gestapo.
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And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
mrkite38 said:
And, frankly, I'm glad they didn't call it the 'Turd Ferguson Project.'
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The "Allan Parson Project" seems a more befitting name
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
twospirits said:
In reference to reporting any problem post/member, what I've been doing lately is keeping one of my Chrome tabs with the Forum leader List open.
If I encounter a problem post/flame, I create my pm with the links to the post/thread, my reason for reporting it and if the section does not have a mod to send it to, or if i think it needs immediate attention, I then refresh that Forum Leader list to see who is on at the moment and send out the pm to the mod. 9 out of 10, they get it within moments and take care of it, unless they log off by the time the pm is sent out. (or if they deem it not necessary to report).
There are times that even if a section has a mod assigned to it, some issues need to be taken care of immediately before it escalates into a much bigger problem and that is why I'm do the method above until the new reporting system takes effect.
TS out
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Very good point. I try to only involve my forum mods, but I like your idea too. Depending on the issue sometimes I'll PM a few mods that I have known in the past to be pretty quick to take action and/or helpful overall.
I won't name any names, but one of them posted in here *cough* Thanks!
Hopefully Iron Fist is more like Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury!
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
Audionut11 said:
Hopefully with less people making useless threads etc, the older members might also chill out a little.
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Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
So 4 mods posted after my post here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
And I guess they didn't feel it was enough for "iron fist"?
Zeus... God of Awesome!
mattykinsx said:
Unfortunately there are some "older" members that are causing just as much if not more trouble than their newer counterparts.
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I second that.
XperienceD said:
Having been a member of the X10 and now Arc forums since joining I welcome "Iron fist", and still believe there should be a week limit when you first join before you're allowed to post anything because that way it would encourage people to search more, along with having to actually read threads where the answer being looked for has been answered a thousand times already. In regards to githubs point, I'd like to see more of that too in the Arc section.
ALL moderators imo should 1. Actually own the phone of the forum they are moderating and 2. Be able to dedicate a certain amount of time each day to the forum, which might help with keeping the forums clean because they have an interest and a duty to keep on top of things.
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Id like to respond to this as I'm currently moderating the Arc section.
I do not own the device but to be honest I spend far more time in the forumsi moderate than in the forums for devices I own.
Now, atm you may be thinking, "aye right, the place is a s×××hole"
You may be right as I haven't been around much in the past few days.
However under "normal" real life circumstances. All my forums are swept at least once a day. If I should miss anything then please do not hesitate to PM me.....
I make every effort to close/delete/m ove misplaced or duplicate threads but obv. some do get missed, simply because I cannot read every thread. Again, in such a situation or if you just want to discuss the way the section is moderated then please do PM me and let me know.....
I hope that addresses some of your concerns.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
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Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
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I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
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I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
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Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
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This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
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I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....