Kind of in a hard spot right now, both amazing phones but which one do you guys recommend?
Camera on the Pixel still beats the S8 & due to pure Android it feels much faster
Do you care about an unlocked boot loader, custom ROMs, root?
Pixel xl bought straight from Google you have a lot more freedom, and best part of all you can try out Google project fi. Also pure Android is the best in terms of speed, no bloatware, and you'll get the latest updated with the pixel XL. Or you can wait for the pixel 2 which is soon to be unveiled
Yeah i decided to go for the xl, i don't wanna wait for the s8 to get root and also i love flashing custom roms etc..
Mother of God. Of course the Pixel! Why would you want a lagfest phone? And this isn't because this is Pixel section, create same topic on Samsung section and my answer will be same, except there won't be any answer as I don't visit their section.
Congrats in advance by the way.
kel29738 said:
Kind of in a hard spot right now, both amazing phones but which one do you guys recommend?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having used both the pixel XL and the samsung s8 plus, I would definitely recommend the pixel XL for the below reasons
1) The HDR+ is excellent in the google pixel XL. The front camera is also great for selfies
2) Stock android, haven't seen it lag till date. After a few weeks quite a bit of lag is visible in the S8 plus
3) in my view the Pixel XL is easier to hold and use on a daily basis. The Samsung S8 plus is quite scary to hold especially if you are a person who moves around a lot and travels
4) The google assistant is of some use. I didn't use the Bixby at all while it was there (no voice support)
5) The battery life is brilliant and gets me through the day
The only downside is the speaker output in the google Pixel XL but yeah I have bluetooth speakers. I miss the Always on Display but I love my Pixel XL that I got back to it and wouldn't look for a replacement
Shawn haz root said:
Do you care about an unlocked boot loader, custom ROMs, root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do the Pixel XL isn't actually a great phone. Google made the Pixels to run stock Android. They want Pixel users to run stock Android. Independent development is almost nonexistent for the Pixels compared with the wide variety of roms, kernels and tweaks that were available for the earlier Nexus devices. The Pixel is a headache to flash on, root and develop for. There is no official version of Magisk for the Pixel and according to the dev there may never be. Custom kernels for the Pixel are missing the most basic modification that custom kernels usually provide --the ability to change the governor. The Pixel XL is an excellent phone if you want to run stock Android but anyone who claims it's a great phone for development and flashing is either lying, stupid or completely delusional.
jhs39 said:
If you do the Pixel XL isn't actually a great phone. Google made the Pixels to run stock Android. They want Pixel users to run stock Android. Independent development is almost nonexistent for the Pixels compared with the wide variety of roms, kernels and tweaks that were available for the earlier Nexus devices. The Pixel is a headache to flash on, root and develop for. There is no official version of Magisk for the Pixel and according to the dev there may never be. Custom kernels for the Pixel are missing the most basic modification that custom kernels usually provide --the ability to change the governor. The Pixel XL is an excellent phone if you want to run stock Android but anyone who claims it's a great phone for development and flashing is either lying, stupid or completely delusional.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But still I don't see the S8 being in a better place with knox when it comes to custom ROMs and kernels. On the contrary I would say it is worse in that section.
Funny. I just sold my galaxy s8+ for a regular pixel .... Yes 5" pixel. I really wanted an xl but finding a use 128gb google version pixel for $100 was a no brainer. Here is my little story and why i say PIXEL ALL THE WAY.
i bought this pixel has a spare since is was.such a great price. I had my galaxy s8+ since launch. amazing phone until i used the pixel for a few minutes. There i learned how laggy and stuttery the sg8 is. I couldnt even use it anymore since i already experience how smooth the pixel was. I sold my gs8+ 2 days after and kept the pixel. The gs8 is a great phone and has all this feature. But software which is my main purpose i purchase the phone doesnt cut it. I want a smooth OS experience and not the lag hell like touchwiz even with its 835 chipset. Things are much more laggy than this.
By the way. I got the pixel for $100 but in black. I was tired of black phones and took mine to ubreakifix. They charged me $250 to do an entire very blue conversion. Looks brand new out of the box white face screen and blue housing. One of the few with a very blue 128gb version.
jimmmysil said:
But still I don't see the S8 being in a better place with knox when it comes to custom ROMs and kernels. On the contrary I would say it is worse in that section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be true but I still don't think you can recommend a Pixel based on independent development and custom Roms and flashing. There is much more independent development for the One Plus phones if that is a big reason you want to own an Android phone. I've tried a number of custom Roms on the Pixel XL, more out of long standing habit than anything else. None ran better than stock and the only one I found that ran without a single issue was Dirty Unicorn. All of the other Roms I tried would either have bugs or would lag over time, which doesn't happen with stock on the Pixel. The only reason to run a custom rom on the Pixel is either that you can't live without Substratum theming or the custom rom has some feature that is vitally important to you--but it's almost guaranteed that you will be sacrificing some performance and stability on a custom rom because the Pixel was made to run stock Android and does so remarkably well. That's just an opinion of course and I'm sure people on the Pixel love their custom roms. The only thing I miss (I went back to stock) is using a dark theme. I think if Google actually allowed theming natively like the OnePlus and some Sony phones do the Pixel would be close to perfect. The only obvious problem is the Pixel speakers which are unforgivavly bad for such an expensive phone. I swear to God that I'm not exaggerating --my friend got a 20 or 30 dollar phone from the Cricket Store and it has better speakers than the Pixel does. Google never should have released this phone with such terrible speakers. Otherwise as long as you want to run stock Android the Pixel is great.
There are actually people, normal users, who purchase a phone based off on development? Yes OnePlus and all them inferior devices have much more development, but you are gonna buy that thing over a Pixel because it has more development? I mean what the heck is wrong with people? A heavily modified OnePlus will still not perform as good as a bare stock Pixel at first place!
Take the developers out of the picture obviously, they can buy a OnePlus just for development's sake, but I am saying about us normal users.
TouchWiz is realy ugly, so I recommend a Pixel XL
ithehappy said:
There are actually people, normal users, who purchase a phone based off on development? Yes OnePlus and all them inferior devices have much more development, but you are gonna buy that thing over a Pixel because it has more development? I mean what the heck is wrong with people? A heavily modified OnePlus will still not perform as good as a bare stock Pixel at first place!
Take the developers out of the picture obviously, they can buy a OnePlus just for development's sake, but I am saying about us normal users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well one plus has a lot worse camera but unfortunately breasts pixel in speed and battery life by far...
I have seen ppl owning one plus 5 having over that 12 hours of sot with custom rom and kernel...
I am a pixel user myself and I would love to see Google boosting so much our battery life. It is too bad that Google gets beaten in its own operating system in performance and battery life by a a smaller company and a bunch of developers...
I would definitely wait 2 month and get the xl 2.
I purchased the S8, HTC U11 and Sony XZ Premium. Nothing is as smooth as Google Pixel XL. Returned all of them and kept my Pixel XL.
Sent from my Pixel XL using XDA-Developers Legacy app
LOL no one gonna tell you to get an s8 on a google forum buddy.
I have both.
if you want faster update and some noticeable speed. get pixel xl
if you want gorgeous phone, with latest hardware, more features , SD card, wireless charging, water proof. get S8
TheUndertaker21 said:
LOL no one gonna tell you to get an s8 on a google forum buddy.
I have both.
if you want faster update and some noticeable speed. get pixel xl
if you want gorgeous phone, with latest hardware, more features , SD card, wireless charging, water proof. get S8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does anyone know why samsung phones always lag so horribly? can it be fixed on a users end or is it something that samsung would have to change as a company? ive noticed its had lagging issues every since the galaxy s5 but i didnt know if it was something that had to do with the cache or something slowing it down i remember on my galaxy s5 it would build up like a gb of cache within a day or two and soon as i cleared it out it would work extremely well again for a few minutes then itd be really crappy again.
You are going to get a lot of people say they owned a billion devices and they sold them all for the Pixel. You are also going to get people say that the pixel is great because it doesn't lag.
I guess you could say that a Galaxy S8 might lag, but you have to keep in mind, that it does ALOT more than a Pixel. Literally all the pixel has software wise over the S8 is that it is fast. That's it. The Galaxy S8 software features blow the Pixel out of the water. It can do so much, and has so many features built in right out of the box. Also keep in mind that S8 currently has full theme support which the Pixel cannot do (incase you get board of the layout/appearance etc). Something to also consider, is that the Pixel XL is wider and could be considered harder to hold than the S8+. Personally I find them both too big, but the S8+ is easier to hold, especially in portrait. Also that the S8 and the s8+ have bigger screens and better battery life in general than both Pixels.
In the end I think it's just software based. If you like to pay for extra apps, and get varied user experiences over UI's created by different developers, and put up with the Google issues they have with their own devices and how many updates and bug fixes they get, and you value speed over software features then Pixel is the best choice.
If you think aesthetics, software features, hardware features (water resist, better speaker, bigger screen, bigger battery etc) then S8+ is the best choice.
I'm sick of the issues with this Pixel XL and I am going to preorder the Note 8 as soon as it's available. Really wanted this Pixel to work but too many issues, mostly bluetooth but there are feature on the Note line that I actually used and never realized how much until I didn't have one.
Related
I managed to pick up a Pixel 2 XL about a week ago. Initially I was very impressed and excited about it. 48 hours later I was "meh". The camera is great, assistant awesome at interpreting requests and to me - nothing beats the stock android experience.
Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at Google for allowing Verizon to sell this phone (and Google selling it) with the bootloader locked.
History:
I've owned every Nexus/Pixel since Google and HTC released the very first device.
Before the Pixel I used the S8. I preferred it's size to the S8+.
I think my dream device would be the Pixel experience in the S8 form factor or the Pixel XL's minimal bezel design in a smaller form factor. (angrily staring at the design team behind the Pixel 2)
After the 5T launch today - I'm toying with the idea of just buying one of those and selling this XL
What are your thoughts?
taifuller said:
I managed to pick up a Pixel 2 XL about a week ago. Initially I was very impressed and excited about it. 48 hours later I was "meh". The camera is great, assistant awesome at interpreting requests and to me - nothing beats the stock android experience.
Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at Google for allowing Verizon to sell this phone (and Google selling it) with the bootloader locked.
History:
I've owned every Nexus/Pixel since Google and HTC released the very first device.
Before the Pixel I used the S8. I preferred it's size to the S8+.
I think my dream device would be the Pixel experience in the S8 form factor or the Pixel XL's minimal bezel design in a smaller form factor. (angrily staring at the design team behind the Pixel 2)
After the 5T launch today - I'm toying with the idea of just buying one of those and selling this XL
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Plus is trash. Keep the XL.
dhaugru said:
One Plus is trash. Keep the XL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's that based on? Have you had a chance to handle the 5T? (Not trying to be funny, just curious)
I'm aware of the differences in specs. Looking at value, pocketing a couple hundred bucks while having a very similar experience is appealing.
Try it hands on style and report back. Good luck
taifuller said:
What's that based on? Have you had a chance to handle the 5T? (Not trying to be funny, just curious)
I'm aware of the differences in specs. Looking at value, pocketing a couple hundred bucks while having a very similar experience is appealing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It feels like I see something weekly about them stealing user data. No thanks. Also 1080 screen, no water resistance, some new BS camera that will under perform....nah. Happy with my Note 8 and 2 XL.
No, I haven't touched the 5T and have no desire to.
taifuller said:
I managed to pick up a Pixel 2 XL about a week ago. Initially I was very impressed and excited about it. 48 hours later I was "meh". The camera is great, assistant awesome at interpreting requests and to me - nothing beats the stock android experience.
Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at Google for allowing Verizon to sell this phone (and Google selling it) with the bootloader locked.
History:
I've owned every Nexus/Pixel since Google and HTC released the very first device.
Before the Pixel I used the S8. I preferred it's size to the S8+.
I think my dream device would be the Pixel experience in the S8 form factor or the Pixel XL's minimal bezel design in a smaller form factor. (angrily staring at the design team behind the Pixel 2)
After the 5T launch today - I'm toying with the idea of just buying one of those and selling this XL
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do what you want, bro.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using XDA-Developers Legacy app
dhaugru said:
One Plus is trash. Keep the XL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not completely true. I just came from the 3T. It was great except the camera. It actually took over as my favorite phone (that I've owned) from the S3. I also have a OnePlus One and bought the 5 but didn't like it so I kept my 3T until I got the 2 XL.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using XDA Labs
MrMeeseeks said:
Not completely true. I just came from the 3T. It was great except the camera. It actually took over as my favorite phone (that I've owned) from the S3. I also have a OnePlus One and bought the 5 but didn't like it so I kept my 3T until I got the 2 XL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See my previous comment to give you context to back up my opinion.
I agree, I have the note 8 and 2 xl currently. Thinking hard about returning 2 xl and buying the 5t. I got a locked bootloader also, this phone isnt as fun as a unlocked. Ill never buy from verizon again. I got lucky last year and was able to use depixel8 before the patch, not so lucky this time around.
the only advantage oneplus has over pixel is the price but if you can afford pixel, pixel is better choice.
Oneplus wont update the phone beyond 2 updates, that means you'll have to depend on custom roms after android P.
Also this my personal point of view that they are drifting away from the stock android slowly, their useless apps like clock, calculator, dialer doesnt make sense.
releasing a phone every 6 months is another thing i dont like.
pixel has faster updates, longer support, better camera.
I'm an ex oneplus 3 and oneplus 3t user btw.
but ultimately things do come to your personal preference and point of view.
taifuller said:
nothing beats the stock android experience...Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at Google for allowing Verizon to sell this phone (and Google selling it) with the bootloader locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm confused. The phone is awesome, but because you apparently chose to buy the Verizon version and the bootloader is locked, you don't like it.
First of all, you do realize that 99.9% of the population has no F-ing clue what a bootloader is, nor will they ever in a million years care to find out.
But according to you, Google is somehow at fault for allowing a carrier to sell a phone with an insignificant modification none of its mainstream customers will care about. And somehow this is a "problem"?
If you are so outraged about the bootloader, why didn't you buy the device directly from Google?
Second of all, since when does the Pixel 2 XL run stock Android? Stock Android is the latest AOSP build. At this point Google has a thinly skinned Android variant that can only be described as "Google's Android".
And if you're so into "stock" Android, why does it matter if the bootloader is locked? So you can put a custom rom onto the device and thereby not use "stock" Android?
Apologies but your post seems to have no purpose than to bash the Pixel 2 XL and suggest that buying another device is a good idea. Why do we need to tell you what to do? If you don't like it, get rid of it. End of story.
I had the OnePlus 5, awesome phone considering the price.
But the camera sucks, no waterproofing, and slow updates.
Plus the updated launcher sucks.
TokyoGuy said:
I'm confused. The phone is awesome, but because you apparently chose to buy the Verizon version and the bootloader is locked, you don't like it.
First of all, you do realize that 99.9% of the population has no F-ing clue what a bootloader is, nor will they ever in a million years care to find out.
But according to you, Google is somehow at fault for allowing a carrier to sell a phone with an insignificant modification none of its mainstream customers will care about. And somehow this is a "problem"?
If you are so outraged about the bootloader, why didn't you buy the device directly from Google?
Second of all, since when does the Pixel 2 XL run stock Android? Stock Android is the latest AOSP build. At this point Google has a thinly skinned Android variant that can only be described as "Google's Android".
And if you're so into "stock" Android, why does it matter if the bootloader is locked? So you can put a custom rom onto the device and thereby not use "stock" Android?
Apologies but your post seems to have no purpose than to bash the Pixel 2 XL and suggest that buying another device is a good idea. Why do we need to tell you what to do? If you don't like it, get rid of it. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, thanks for your point of view. Certainly wasn't my intent to upset you or anyone else who enjoys the phone.
I never cited the bootloader lock as an issue for not liking the phone. I do LIKE the phone. Obviously I do not think it's a deal breaker because I DID knowing purchase a bootloader locked edition of the phone. My point is times are changing and I either need to change with them or find a better value. I said was disappointed in Google for allowing the change.
I'm stating from a value standpoint there may be other options that offer a similar experience. Of course value is perceived by everyone differently.
Thinking back to the Nexus 5, in my opinion one of the best phones released under Google's hand, was awesome because of the value. Yes, I'm aware that when the Nexus 6 came out we left value land for premium land.
What I meant by bringing up the 5T is - I can purchase very similar hardware for less and run the same applications at no additional costs. The trade off is a sacrifice in screen quality and camera quality??
Thank you on your clarification of what the true stock android experience is. To clarify, I prefer "Google's Android" to other manufacturer's implementation of Android. Is that better?
I got great feedback from others that I reminded me of the non-tangible benefits of owning the Pixel over a different device.
dhaugru said:
One Plus is trash. Keep the XL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more like, OnePlus is amazing for the price, but Pixel 2 XL is better in nearly every way (except charging speed)
Source: own/ed OnePlus One, OnePlus 3, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, Pixel XL, Pixel 2 XL
2x4 said:
more like, OnePlus is amazing for the price, but Pixel 2 XL is better in nearly every way (except charging speed)
Source: own/ed OnePlus One, OnePlus 3, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, Pixel XL, Pixel 2 XL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the OPO and OP2 from them. The OPO, great...the OP2....terrible. I have also been active on their forum for years and that has told me all I need to know about them.
They will not see anymore of my money.
dhaugru said:
I bought the OPO and OP2 from them. The OPO, great...the OP2....terrible. I have also been active on their forum for years and that has told me all I need to know about them.
They will not see anymore of my money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i didn't get the OP2 since I read terrible reviews about it, but I did get the OP3 and it has been amazing to be honest in my experience (except for the GPS lock bug that was present a few months, which has since been resolved). I am both impressed by the fluidity, speed, and frequency of updates on their software and disappointed by their decision to only provide major feature updates on the OP3/T for such a short time (not to mention launch the OP5T without Oreo)
I got the Pixel XL 2 since I wanted a better camera and so my SO could use my OP3 with 2 SIM cards (for more data), but I could have easily kept it and kept using it past the SW timeline via custom ROMs - even the camera is pretty amazing once you sideload the GCAM mod that lets you use Google's algorithm (SIGNIFICANTLY better post-processing than the stock camera)
2x4 said:
i didn't get the OP2 since I read terrible reviews about it, but I did get the OP3 and it has been amazing to be honest in my experience (except for the GPS lock bug that was present a few months, which has since been resolved). I am both impressed by the fluidity, speed, and frequency of updates on their software and disappointed by their decision to only provide major feature updates on the OP3/T for such a short time (not to mention launch the OP5T without Oreo)
I got the Pixel XL 2 since I wanted a better camera and so my SO could use my OP3 with 2 SIM cards (for more data), but I could have easily kept it and kept using it past the SW timeline via custom ROMs - even the camera is pretty amazing once you sideload the GCAM mod that lets you use Google's algorithm (SIGNIFICANTLY better post-processing than the stock camera)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah see that's the thing for me....I don't want to have to d*ck with custom ROMs or sideloading anything. My communication is way too important to me to take chances modding my device.
Glad you like the 2 XL. I am happy with it as well. Currently flipping back and forth between the 2 XL and Note 8. Can't decide which one I like more...depends on the day. :laugh:
dhaugru said:
Yeah see that's the thing for me....I don't want to have to d*ck with custom ROMs or sideloading anything. My communication is way too important to me to take chances modding my device.
Glad you like the 2 XL. I am happy with it as well. Currently flipping back and forth between the 2 XL and Note 8. Can't decide which one I like more...depends on the day. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you pick the N8 somedays besides the screen? Curious not bashing.
taifuller said:
I managed to pick up a Pixel 2 XL about a week ago. Initially I was very impressed and excited about it. 48 hours later I was "meh". The camera is great, assistant awesome at interpreting requests and to me - nothing beats the stock android experience.
Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at Google for allowing Verizon to sell this phone (and Google selling it) with the bootloader locked.
History:
I've owned every Nexus/Pixel since Google and HTC released the very first device.
Before the Pixel I used the S8. I preferred it's size to the S8+.
I think my dream device would be the Pixel experience in the S8 form factor or the Pixel XL's minimal bezel design in a smaller form factor. (angrily staring at the design team behind the Pixel 2)
After the 5T launch today - I'm toying with the idea of just buying one of those and selling this XL
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to look angry at the design team mate. Can't make a small phone with small bezels without severely reducing the battery size. Which in turn will make battery life suck.
Gilley said:
What makes you pick the N8 somedays besides the screen? Curious not bashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the procision of the S-Pen. I am also in sales and it's handy to quickly jot a quick note when working with customers to gain contact info or to highlight important points within the conversation.
I also use it as my in-flight media library with the expanded storage. The headphone jack is nice too!
I am confused between google pixel 2 xl and oneplus 5t, which phone should I buy?
The purpose of buying any one of these phones is to install different custom roms.
so what you people suggest which phone will have more custom roms?
Thank you.
I was in the same boat and decided to get the Pixel 2 XL instead. Before the 3T I had the Nexus 6 and I miss being first with updates and other factors made my decision. If for some reason I don't like the Pixel then I will get the 5T.
Good luck with your decision.
I'm an OG Pixel user. I do not have a pixel 2. I can say the pixel I'm running now is leaps ahead of the Nexus 6p I came from.
Custom ROMs however have taken a huge hit to the Google/pixel community. The whole dual boot slots really slowed down development on the pixels. Everything I guess is more difficult. Plus, there's not much demand for custom ROMs from the pixel community.
The 5t looks like an incredible device. The display looks a little weak and it ships with nougat. Hardware wise though (cpu, ram etc) the 5t is a power house.
Bottom line, in my opinion, if you want the latest versions of Android the very second Google releases it, there's no other phone to buy than a pixel.
However, if you want custom ROMs and a huge third party dev scene, I feel like One plus is the place to be these days. I checked out the OP5 forums a few days ago and the amount of development going on in those forums reminded me of the Nexus 5 forms a few years back. It's ridiculous the amount of ROMs, kernels and mods those users have! The flash addict in me got super jealous!
Good luck trying to decide, I know I wouldn't want to have to make that decision lol
If your purpose/goal is to install custom ROMs and whatnot, I'd also suggest OP5T. I think the main dev of official TWRP had a post on G+ mentioning even more internal changes made, which makes development a bigger hassle than the OG Pixel.
I really wanted the 2XL mainly for that camera, but I love flashing ROMs and other things, so I'm either sticking with my 5 I have now, or will be getting the 5T.
Pain-N-Panic said:
I'm an OG Pixel user. I do not have a pixel 2. I can say the pixel I'm running now is leaps ahead of the Nexus 6p I came from.
Custom ROMs however have taken a huge hit to the Google/pixel community. The whole dual boot slots really slowed down development on the pixels. Everything I guess is more difficult. Plus, there's not much demand for custom ROMs from the pixel community.
The 5t looks like an incredible device. The display looks a little weak and it ships with nougat. Hardware wise though (cpu, ram etc) the 5t is a power house.
Bottom line, in my opinion, if you want the latest versions of Android the very second Google releases it, there's no other phone to buy than a pixel.
However, if you want custom ROMs and a huge third party dev scene, I feel like One plus is the place to be these days. I checked out the OP5 forums a few days ago and the amount of development going on in those forums reminded me of the Nexus 5 forms a few years back. It's ridiculous the amount of ROMs, kernels and mods those users have! The flash addict in me got super jealous!
Good luck trying to decide, I know I wouldn't want to have to make that decision lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The oneplus 5t screen will look better than the pixel XL 2 screen
Reuben_skelz92 said:
The oneplus 5t screen will look better than the pixel XL 2 screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious, why?
Pain-N-Panic said:
I'm curious, why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The LG p oled screens are not the best quality
I chose the OnePlus 5T and am happy with my decision.
I think the question more accurately is "Google Pixel 2 XL or Two Oneplus 5T"
Better one good device than 2 ok devices. Pixel is running laps around the OnePlus. Software support, hotword detection, dual front-facing stereo speakers and the camera. The camera software of OnePlus is a bad joke. Advantages of the OnePlus: dual-sim, a lot of custom roms and perhaps the screen (probably no black crash and smear on low brightness).
It's great phone, but i don't like scanner on back panel........ That's why my chooice (OP5 or OP3T)
shivangshukla said:
I am confused between google pixel 2 xl and oneplus 5t, which phone should I buy?
The purpose of buying any one of these phones is to install different custom roms.
so what you people suggest which phone will have more custom roms?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bhai, if you can afford Pixel 2/Pixel 2XL , why even turn towards oneplus?
NoobInToto said:
Bhai, if you can afford Pixel 2/Pixel 2XL , why even turn towards oneplus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because development in Google Pixel has slowed down in comparison to oneplus.
one plus have more custom rom in comparison to pixel
but one the other hand pixel is the much better phone then oneplus
its hard to decide what to buy.
shivangshukla said:
because development in Google Pixel has slowed down in comparison to oneplus.
one plus have more custom rom in comparison to pixel
but one the other hand pixel is the much better phone then oneplus
its hard to decide what to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will consider that as a joke.
Pixel has open developer preview (android 8.1.0). It will get the fastest and the latest updates. On one hand, there is pixel which will last you minimum 3 years software wise, on the other hand is a OnePlus device, which will be shunned when the next iteration (OnePlus 6,in 6 months, 6T in a year and so forth, at the time of writing) is released.
Once you start to like stock ROM like me, you will never look back at custom ROMs. You will not understand it unless you use the device for a while. I have been using pure stock since nexus 6p which I got about 1.5 years ago. ( have og pixel for a month now).
I sold my Pixel 2 XL to get the OnePlus 5T for a couple of reasons. They may be personal, but oh well.
1. RAM. Pixel 2 XL has to reload apps at an alarming rate. It's quite frustrating at times.
2. The top bezel is larger than the bottom. Makes the phone appear very top heavy -- especially with the large curves at the corners of the screen.
3.
NoobInToto said:
I will consider that as a joke.
Pixel has open developer preview (android 8.1.0). It will get the fastest and the latest updates. On one hand, there is pixel which will last you minimum 3 years software wise, on the other hand is a OnePlus device, which will be shunned when the next iteration (OnePlus 6,in 6 months, 6T in a year and so forth, at the time of writing) is released.
Once you start to like stock ROM like me, you will never look back at custom ROMs. You will not understand it unless you use the device for a while. I have been using pure stock since nexus 6p which I got about 1.5 years ago. ( have og pixel for a month now).
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How is that a joke? Look at the OG Pixel forums and even the new Pixel 2 forums and compare them to the OnePlus forums. The amount of *custom* development available for OnePlus devices is definitely more than the Pixels.
Liking and using the stock ROM is another story though, and that's totally fine and the Pixel is the better choice in that regard. But in terms of the amount of development available, OnePlus is the winner hands down.
The dual A/B slot layout has made for slower development compared to the nexus line, and that has been said by developers themselves.
In my opinion, if it's stock vs. stock - Pixel wins. If it's about the availability of custom ROM/kernel/mods, OnePlus wins.
rickysidhu_ said:
How is that a joke? Look at the OG Pixel forums and even the new Pixel 2 forums and compare them to the OnePlus forums. The amount of *custom* development available for OnePlus devices is definitely more than the Pixels.
Liking and using the stock ROM is another story though, and that's totally fine and the Pixel is the better choice in that regard. But in terms of the amount of development available, OnePlus is the winner hands down.
The dual A/B slot layout has made for slower development compared to the nexus line, and that has been said by developers themselves.
In my opinion, if it's stock vs. stock - Pixel wins. If it's about the availability of custom ROM/kernel/mods, OnePlus wins.
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That is true. But with google phones, I have become a sucker for developer preview and quick updates. When I had a OnePlus one, I was a sucker for custom ROMs. Same with grand duos. Personally, I believe that I tended towards custom ROMs and root when I had phones whose software cycle ended early while in use. One more reason is that the hardware-software combination seemed that it would require
custom kernels and apps requiring root for good performance/battery efficiency. With nexus/pixel line, stock feels good enough. Simple and powerful. With monthly updates (at least), I have never felt the need for custom ROMs. That is now my personal preference. Google is pushing towards the same (google is evil ).
I had the Pixel 2 XL for a few days and sent it back so that I could purchase the 5T. IMO the Pixel is the ugliest phone I've used in a long time. The vibration motor is horrible and the screen is not great. I did not like the Pixel at all. I will say that the Pixel is the fastest and smoothest Android I've ever used, but it wasn't for me.
I bought a pixel 2 xl and RMA'd 3 times for defects. One time being for a cluster of dead pixels, twice for touchscreen unresponsiveness.
The software is phenomenal. Great camera, really great battery life. I just couldn't justify the price tag. The speakers are loud but sound very thin. No where near HTC m7/8 or ZTE quality. And I wasn't impressed by the screen. Two of the device's panels were very grainy, sort of looks like a layer of dirt under the glass. The one that wasn't grainy had the dead pixels. And noticed a big variation in color temp between the 3 panels. Also personally not a fan of the round corners and round glass edges.
But I wouldn't knock the development efforts; it has magisk root and TWRP capable of decryption. Although it does sound like monthly updates are going to make maintaining decryption in TWRP difficult.
I've got a mate 10 pro at the moment. great phone. But I'm also close to ordering a 5t. Mainly for root and good rom development. Was going to get a pixel 2 XL but to me if the screen isn't very good it ruins everything else so I can't be bothered with the issues
Well I will have my S9+ on Monday (will it dethrone my pixel as my daily?) Will take some effort as this device is fantastic :good:
So with that said if anyone might be interested outwith review videos & looking for the user comparison then I'm in a position to compare the two.
My obvious main focus (pardon the pun) is to test the camera's and see how they compare.
But open to suggestions as to what else you might like to see?
No I'm not going to drop test or set it on fire
I have a feeling that it will be in last place rotation with my 5T, iPhone X and my daily Pixel XL 2, but it may surprise me in terms of we know how great the display is and if it can really be as GREAT as the pixel in the camera department.
Let me know though and I'll be happy to test and compare.
I wouldn't personally give up on the pixel device as it is a better performer overall. Plus instant updates are a great.
Oh I'm not getting rid of my pixel hmm until the pixel 3 is released :silly:
Duncan1982 said:
Oh I'm not getting rid of my pixel hmm until the pixel 3 is released :silly:
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Agreed. Lets just hope they let us theme the darn thing!! ?
Badger50 said:
Agreed. Lets just hope they let us theme the darn thing!! ?
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I will never be without a Pixel device now, having stayed away from Stock android since the Nexus 5 (As I was more into skins) at the time, I didn't quite get what all the fuss was about fast forward to the Pixel XL 2 yeah I get it (took me a while) but now I truly get it and love it, just an annoyance that Google are restricting theming with Android P........
Duncan1982 said:
I will never be without a Pixel device now, having stayed away from Stock android since the Nexus 5 (As I was more into skins) at the time, I didn't quite get what all the fuss was about fast forward to the Pixel XL 2 yeah I get it (took me a while) but now I truly get it and love it, just an annoyance that Google are restricting theming with Android P........
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Couldn't agree more. I've been running dark themes since my DINC days! Themeing is one of my favorite things about android. Now I fear G may be taking all that away. I sure hope not though! ?
I was so tempted by the S9+ (switching from the Oneplus 5T) that I even preordered it. But after some research (happy to be corrected here if needed) regarding project treble, I was under the impression that the amazing camera features may not be available in an AOSP rom. The build quality of Samsung phones are very good and I was really pleased to hear of its project treble capabilities. But I ended up selling my 5T and getting the Pixel and couldn't be happier
Yeah they might introduce their own brand of theming (but that will suck,) and still be restrictive, I really don't get why white has and must be the standard colour,
This is more annoying when there is a shift to most OEM's using oled displays.
So why is there a refusal by Google to allow us to theme when we and they know that there are significant advantages for the user to use dark themes, battery life & getting rid of EVERYTHING being white which obviously impacts on that.
This is my only real gripe and its obviously just became recent with Android P, maybe they will think twice about that unwanted move.
cd993 said:
I was so tempted by the S9+ (switching from the Oneplus 5T) that I even preordered it. But after some research (happy to be corrected here if needed) regarding project treble, I was under the impression that the amazing camera features may not be available in an AOSP rom. The build quality of Samsung phones are very good and I was really pleased to hear of its project treble capabilities. But I ended up selling my 5T and getting the Pixel and couldn't be happier
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I was going to cancel my S9+ order but I went ahead hmm more for testing and comparing ok ok & feeding my addiction (there I said it).
You my friend made a very sensible decision as much as the S9+ does pack a punch with Design & Display and offers up some great additions IP68, SD Card Expansion, Fast charging & Wireless, it really covers most area's. But honestly it can't touch the pixel for a device that is just an absolute pleasure to use. I wondered to myself after owning 30+ devices over 4 years, what is it with Stock Android? Like I said I had the Nexus 5.
What it is "Simplicity " not iOS simplicity but that none the less, its smooth like no other, its the little things like notifications replies, to the the whole UI (other than it being white) its the updates, and there is a nice vibe to it, and what about that camera :good:
Yes I am also interested in project treble and seeing if that speeds up updates with Samsung (Not holding my breath) if it doesn't then its my last ever Samsung. No excuses now
Glad like me you love the pixel & at the same time unlike me and saved your money :laugh:
I'd be interested to see how the S9+ holds up after a few months of use, and how good the Front facing camera is. For me, the curved screen is a no go with Galaxies now, I just cannot get used to them.
S8+ and Note 8 shows significant lag and stutter unless you use the built in optimiser but then because it clears the temp and cache files, that means you have to load back in all your photo thumbnails etc when you load the apps.
With the Selfie camera, as much as people may hate it, it is great for groufies when out with friends and Samsung Front facing cameras almost always suck. Compared to the absolutely amazing pixel 2 front facer, I am unsure that the S9 will compete.
I think the quality of the F2.4 lens will be sharper than the Pixel 2, but I bet any kind of movement will blur again in anything less than optimal light, like most galaxies, which doesn't occur on Pixel.
Look forward to your thoughts and I hope you enjoy the S9+.
It will be interesting to compare, but I'll be waiting on the next Pixel XL 3 badboy! Cheers
Oh I WILL be getting the Pixel 3 XL..... And I will compare that to, although I still believe the pixel XL2 will still kick Samsungs ass in the camera department :good:
I am just curious if anyone here is considering the OnePlus 6?
GCbard said:
I am just curious if anyone here is considering the OnePlus 6?
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I'd consider the snot out of it if it weren't for 2 things...1. THE NOTCH!!!!! 2. It doesn't work on my provider! ??
Badger50 said:
I'd consider the snot out of it if it weren't for 2 things...1. THE NOTCH!!!!! 2. It doesn't work on my provider!
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Same. I wonder if they realize how many customers they are losing out on by continuing to not put in certain bands. Or, do they need someone's permission? Either way: notch = no sale, for me.
I don't see the reason for switching to a OP6. I don't even consider it as an upgrade.
OnePlus screens have never been amazing
Snapdragon 845 over 835... do you really need the difference in processing power?
Camera is going to be definitely worse, even the S9 still struggles against the Pixel 2.
Software updates aren't going to be faster, that's for sure
Battery life and RAM might be better though I have never ever had RAM problems with my Pixel 2. RAM is there for being used, free ram is wasted ram.
allweknowisa said:
I don't see the reason for switching to a OP6. I don't even consider it as an upgrade.
OnePlus screens have never been amazing
Snapdragon 845 over 835... do you really need the difference in processing power?
Camera is going to be definitely worse, even the S9 still struggles against the Pixel 2.
Software updates aren't going to be faster, that's for sure
Battery life and RAM might be better though I have never ever had RAM problems with my Pixel 2. RAM is there for being used, free ram is wasted ram.
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Very good points. I would only consider one as something extra to play with, not a daily driver.
On your first point, I certainly wouldn't describe the Pixel 2XL's screen as amazing, either. I'm not referring to blue shift. That doesn't bother me. I'm more about ghost swipes and graininess.
Str0ntium said:
Very good points. I would only consider one as something extra to play with, not a daily driver.
On your first point, I certainly wouldn't describe the Pixel 2XL's screen as amazing, either. I'm not referring to blue shift. That doesn't bother me. I'm more about ghost swipes and graininess.
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I understand somebody can upgrade their Pixel 2 XL to an S9 or S9+ with the main reason of having a way better screen, but I think OP6 screen will not be worth the switch.
If it worked on VZW, would ditch the Pixel and go back to the OnePlus in a second. It is better in every single way except the camera. But the 6 might close that gap more.
one thing is having used 3, 3T and 5, there is a touch latency where it cannot even beat Nexus 6p. seems liek there is lag while 6p, 2xl there isnt any.
however the 6 do interest me with the screen to size ratio.. notch doesnt bother me
Nada! Our Pixel XL 2 keeps getting better and better with more Development! Salute'
I was an upgrade every year user before but have turned into an every two year person now. So 2019 for me but I'm also still waiting for a Sprint compatible variant which will probably never come. I'll never be switching carriers as Sprint is good everywhere I need it to be and cost is good.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
I was thinking about getting one as a secondary device, just because it seems like OnePlus is replacing/has replaced the now dead Nexus line in terms of development.
It would be nice to have a device to just tinker with and install mods, ROMs, kernels, and so on.
But I'd definitely keep the Pixel 2 XL as my daily driver just because of things like the camera and overall smoothness of stock Android.
No... After using Samsung devices for years, I got a Pixel 2 XL for the quick updates despite the missing features compared to the Galaxy S7/S8/S9, and so far I'm pretty happy with my choice and I'm dealing better than I thought I would with the lack of a microSD card reader, wireless charging and minijack audio port.
The way I see it, OnePlus phones are a lose-lose situation: they lack the quick Android updates the Pixel has AND they lack the features that make the Galaxy S7/S8/S9 such great phones (terrific display, IP68, wireless charging, great camera, SD card reader, etc.) so yeah, I'm not interested at all in the OnePlus 6.
For me the only dilemma I have these days is pretty simple: Do I go with the quick Android updates and great user experience +
decent hardware (Pixel) or do I go for all the hardware bells and whistles but a less enjoyable software experience (Galaxy/Note)?
I'm not saying the OnePlus 6 is a bad phone for others, but it's not a phone for me
GCbard said:
I am just curious if anyone here is considering the OnePlus 6?
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The day OnePlus supports Verizon is the day I will spend money on a phone of theirs. I am patiently waiting with money in hand.
Short ans no
Long ans still no
Cheers ?
Sent from my Google Pixel 2 XL using XDA Labs
Phazonclash said:
No... After using Samsung devices for years, I got a Pixel 2 XL for the quick updates despite the missing features compared to the Galaxy S7/S8/S9, and so far I'm pretty happy with my choice and I'm dealing better than I thought I would with the lack of a microSD card reader, wireless charging and minijack audio port.
The way I see it, OnePlus phones are a lose-lose situation: they lack the quick Android updates the Pixel has AND they lack the features that make the Galaxy S7/S8/S9 such great phones (terrific display, IP68, wireless charging, great camera, SD card reader, etc.) so yeah, I'm not interested at all in the OnePlus 6.
For me the only dilemma I have these days is pretty simple: Do I go with the quick Android updates and great user experience +
decent hardware (Pixel) or do I go for all the hardware bells and whistles but a less enjoyable software experience (Galaxy/Note)?
I'm not saying the OnePlus 6 is a bad phone for others, but it's not a phone for me
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I see your points but just a little devil's advocate here, your missing one of the best reasons to get a OnePlus. It's got the best performance for the money. Yes they've been climbing up in price every year but it's still ~$250-$300 less than comparable Pixel and Galaxy phones. Yet it's one of the fastest in everyday multitasking, great RAM management, and very good battery. Even if they have it rise up to $599 for the higher OnePlus 6 model, it's still a decent savings.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Not even considering it. 2 reasons for me...the stupid a$$ notch and the camera is junk. And I say the camera is junk because I have no faith in these guys to get it right. And if they did...still have the dumb a$$ notch. No thx.
Phazonclash said:
No... After using Samsung devices for years, I got a Pixel 2 XL for the quick updates despite the missing features compared to the Galaxy S7/S8/S9, and so far I'm pretty happy with my choice and I'm dealing better than I thought I would with the lack of a microSD card reader, wireless charging and minijack audio port.
The way I see it, OnePlus phones are a lose-lose situation: they lack the quick Android updates the Pixel has AND they lack the features that make the Galaxy S7/S8/S9 such great phones (terrific display, IP68, wireless charging, great camera, SD card reader, etc.) so yeah, I'm not interested at all in the OnePlus 6.
For me the only dilemma I have these days is pretty simple: Do I go with the quick Android updates and great user experience +
decent hardware (Pixel) or do I go for all the hardware bells and whistles but a less enjoyable software experience (Galaxy/Note)?
I'm not saying the OnePlus 6 is a bad phone for others, but it's not a phone for me
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Click to collapse
Have you even owned a OnePlus 5T? Doesn't sound like it. You are spreading misinformation. The main developers are former XDA/Custom Rom Devs who were hired to work for OnePlus. They have Beta releases which they freely communicate and offer instructions/support how to install and run. The last Beta 3 had full fling/swipe gestures which at the same time expanded the screen fully, not the bad fling Nav gestures that are on the custom Roms here which still leave the bottom part of the screen blank/Nav space present and don't expand the view/icons etc to the bottom to gain full use. That is fully functioning in the OnePlus 5T Beta 3 released that is rock solid overall with few bugs. The profile of the 5T phone/near frameless/size are all way ahead of the Pixel 2 XL. The AMOLED screen is much better on the 5T than the Pixel XL 2 in every way. To say the screen is good on this phone is ridiculous with all of the verified off angle blue tint and other issues that became a public fiasco for Google. Mind boggling why this phone looks and performs the way it does with Google in control of the process. The only thing they don't have is the camera/software on the OnePlus. They have some of the best Devs who came from XDA/Custom Rom worlds...hence why they were hired to work for them. Read up on those facts/history is you would like. Also, they have some of the good Dev support from XDA, only second I would say to HTC Dev. This new Pixel with Treble has caused a lot of issues, and soon everybody is going to be dealing with, even OnePlus and other manufacturers since they have no choice. So the future should get better for everybody.
Clean Android experience? Oxygen OS is already pretty stripped down. You can run Nova on it like I do with the Pixel, or AOSP or whatever, it is just as generic and they are open to the standard Google Android experience as anybody, with their own twist if you choose to run their launcher.
Memory/processor loaded up on the OnePlus 5T. No SDCard like a lot of phones today, but dual sim slots if you need it. It is a great performing phone, up there with the best for much less money. If they implement VZW band support and improve that camera, I'm ditching this Google Pixel XL 2 phone is a heartbeat. I personally was running the latest Beta 3 on my 5T with swipe gestures and Nova, unlocked, rooted with blu_sprk custom Kernel/TWRP version and it was a phenomenal performer and great phone. Since I don't take a lot of photos and use the camera that much...really not a big deal. I have a $3k SLR if I want to be serious about photography to use.
But to each his own. Only reason I even am using this Pixel is because there are very few phones on VZW which you can unlock the bootloader/root and maintain functionality to customize it. Only other phone you can buy to do this really is a V30+, and even then, not as good as the Pixel 2 XL.
Not in a million years. On contract in the UK you're basically paying top dollar for a sub par phone. Did they ever fix the upside down jelly displays or put a decent cam in them yet?
Mr Patchy Patch said:
Not even considering it. 2 reasons for me...the stupid a$$ notch and the camera is junk. And I say the camera is junk because I have no faith in these guys to get it right. And if they did...still have the dumb a$$ notch. No thx.
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I hate to say it but the notch is the new "no 3.5 mm headphone jack". I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the majority rather than the minority in another year or two.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
EeZeEpEe said:
I hate to say it but the notch is the new "no 3.5 mm headphone jack". I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes the majority rather than the minority in another year or two.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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I'm forecasting the opposite. After not meeting sales projections for the year, they will drop this notch foolishness like a hot potato.
We each have a 50/50 shot at being correct. I hope I am, btw.
Hi, looking to switch up from my iPhone X to an android device been years since I was on android full time. The phone that has really got my attention has been the pixel 3a xl and wanted to ask in the uk an used s10e off eBay is the same price as an pixel 3a xl. Considering both are at the same price which one is better and why?
Thank you
firenation112 said:
Hi, looking to switch up from my iPhone X to an android device been years since I was on android full time. The phone that has really got my attention has been the pixel 3a xl and wanted to ask in the uk an used s10e off eBay is the same price as an pixel 3a xl. Considering both are at the same price which one is better and why?
Thank you
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Click to collapse
In terms of raw power, S10e. Quality tends to be pretty great with Samsung these days. I, however, highly value a clean Android experience and can't stand ONE UI from Samsung (this is just me though, and I know taste differs, so it's pretty subjective). I do think there's a superior camera experience with the pixel as well, and software support is obviously better with pixel. Longevity can be an issue though, since many pixels have had performance issues over time, so it also depends on how long you're planning on holding onto your phone.
If you want a premium style device, S10e is hard to pass up. If you like the feel of their software, then even better. If you want a more vanilla feel for Android and best camera experience and are ok with the possibility of the phone being a tad slower for the sake of software support, pixel is your go to.
champ784 said:
In terms of raw power, S10e. Quality tends to be pretty great with Samsung these days. I, however, highly value a clean Android experience and can't stand ONE UI from Samsung (this is just me though, and I know taste differs, so it's pretty subjective). I do think there's a superior camera experience with the pixel as well, and software support is obviously better with pixel. Longevity can be an issue though, since many pixels have had performance issues over time, so it also depends on how long you're planning on holding onto your phone.
If you want a premium style device, S10e is hard to pass up. If you like the feel of their software, then even better. If you want a more vanilla feel for Android and best camera experience and are ok with the possibility of the phone being a tad slower for the sake of software support, pixel is your go to.
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Thanks for the advice and I wanted to ask would it be possible to root the s10e and make it similar to the android experience on a pixel? Thanks
firenation112 said:
Thanks for the advice and I wanted to ask would it be possible to root the s10e and make it similar to the android experience on a pixel? Thanks
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Click to collapse
You could install a custom launcher to make it feel more like a pixel, and you can use a few apps and tweaks, but you will still see certain differences in the end, since these mostly apply to your home screen, but not certain UI elements. Samsung does lockdown some of their theming abilities to their own proprietary services. I would recommend finding a demo device or a device from someone you know the has Android 9 pie on a Samsung device and see how you like ONE UI. Like I said, if you don't mind it, the s10e is a pretty safe choice for you. I know a lot of people describe the pixel as more similar to an iPhone experience, so if that is important to you, the pixel will probably be a safer bet.
firenation112 said:
Thanks for the advice and I wanted to ask would it be possible to root the s10e and make it similar to the android experience on a pixel? Thanks
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Click to collapse
Instead of doing this just get the Pixel.
If you wanna make it look and behave like the Pixel, then just get the Pixel. Makes much more sense, right?
I just switched from an XS Max to this Pixel 3a XL and I already enjoy the phone way better than that iPhone. I used an s8 + before and I like Samsung but the updates are slow in comparison and that matters a lot to me.
See what matters to you and get whichever one covers that. The first response to your question is excellent in differentiating the two. Cheers!
Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Combonary said:
Instead of doing this just get the Pixel.
If you wanna make it look and behave like the Pixel, then just get the Pixel. Makes much more sense, right?
I just switched from an XS Max to this Pixel 3a XL and I already enjoy the phone way better than that iPhone. I used an s8 + before and I like Samsung but the updates are slow in comparison and that matters a lot to me.
See what matters to you and get whichever one covers that. The first response to your question is excellent in differentiating the two. Cheers!
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Click to collapse
I personally agree. I think pixel is the best way to go, and rooting Samsung devices can be a tedious and frustrating process since they have a flash counter
Thanks for all the useful replies by everyone, much appreciated.
Wait, where could you get an s10e for the same price???
carnivalrejectq said:
Wait, where could you get an s10e for the same price???
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A pixel 3a xl is brand new £470 and there are plenty of Samsung s10e going for around £450 on eBay in almost new like condition. Remember reading recently that Samsung phones have the highest depreciation percentage of smartphones so you can pick them up relatively cheap compared to its RRP.