Related
So I've got the E970 (AT&T's model) and it apparently does not light staying cooled down.
When doing modest gaming, and even surfing the web I get this lovely message:
"Unable to brighten more due to high temperature. Try again later."
That seems rather depressing. Considering the phone is great. The screen, that is wonderful and I like being able to have my screen maxed while charging or whenever. If the screen is pretty, I want to exploit that, after all.
One thing I've noticed, This thing is constantly sucking a gig of RAM, even when idle.
Anywho, has anyone else experienced the heat issue? This is the second phone I've received with the same issues. I'm trying all methods possible to keep it and fix this issue rather than just taking this one back again and getting a One X+
Seriously, any advice or direction would be pretty awesome.
SkriblZz said:
So I've got the E970 (AT&T's model) and it apparently does not light staying cooled down.
When doing modest gaming, and even surfing the web I get this lovely message:
"Unable to brighten more due to high temperature. Try again later."
That seems rather depressing. Considering the phone is great. The screen, that is wonderful and I like being able to have my screen maxed while charging or whenever. If the screen is pretty, I want to exploit that, after all.
One thing I've noticed, This thing is constantly sucking a gig of RAM, even when idle.
Anywho, has anyone else experienced the heat issue? This is the second phone I've received with the same issues. I'm trying all methods possible to keep it and fix this issue rather than just taking this one back again and getting a One X+
Seriously, any advice or direction would be pretty awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO, Heat should be normal for quad-core mobile devices. My Tegra 3 tablet, although all plastic, heats up when using. My LGOG does heat up in heavy use. The reason of the screen brightness threshold is to reduce the increase in temp. If you're rooted, you can also notice the clockspeed of the CPU cores are also decreased to 1.18gHz when it reach a certain temperature (about 40-50 degrees).
On another note, this should be posted in the Q&A Section
Moved to Q&A
Erm... Isn't 28nm s4 pro not supposed to heat up that much? My tegra 3 1.7ghz only scales max of 35C when browsing... Maybe getting optimus g for fun but battery life and temp is so horrible...
Sent from my HTC One X+
Nah actually its not like korean SGS3.
Didnt measure the temp on sgs3, but it feels much hotter for sure.
My phone gives me this message on a regular basis, even under relatively light use. I'm glad that there are features implemented to protect the CPU and other hardware from overheating, but good grief, this gets rather annoying - rather quickly. I haven't paid too much attention to my OS and software to notice if I'm also burning a gig of RAM at all times, but that wouldn't be terribly surprising. I'm running a lot of background stuff, ADW Launcher EX, system monitors that I never check, custom lock screen, so on and so forth...
I will say that I didn't have a single heat warning until I rooted and unlocked the phone however. Perhaps it's completely unrelated as Gabby is saying the CPU will throttle on it's own in rooted devices, but just something I noticed.
Yeah, the phone can't even be used while charging without it overheating. I would love to just be able to stop it from dimming the screen. Quite honestly, is the screen being dimmed even helping with the heat that much? If I could just take that error away and not have to worry about the heat, I'd be fine, honestly.
Someone got any ideas of before / after rooting for the temperature throttling? I don't know why it would change anything but - -
Sent from Somewhere using my Dog
I just bought a Samsung yesterday. Not sure if I can tell if it's warm or hot, but it does give quite a lot of heat. Specifically where it say's Samsung next to the camera and spreads of a bit to the screen and the back. Is that where the Exynos Octa 5420 is located? Anyone mind posting screenshots of how hot their CPU gets? I'd appreciate it so I can compare it with the temperature I get; I'll post my results soon. According to some search results on google though, people some people get that warm feeling.
My Samsung travel adapter that came with the product also heats up, but again, I'm not sure how hot is actually normal. Just a FYI, doesn't burn my fingers or melt the device, just's a bit uncomfortable touching near the very top.
kwmwtaj said:
I just bought a Samsung yesterday. Not sure if I can tell if it's warm or hot, but it does give quite a lot of heat. Specifically where it say's Samsung next to the camera and spreads of a bit to the screen and the back. Is that where the Exynos Octa 5420 is located? Anyone mind posting screenshots of how hot their CPU gets? I'd appreciate it so I can compare it with the temperature I get; I'll post my results soon. According to some search results on google though, people some people get that warm feeling.
My Samsung travel adapter that came with the product also heats up, but again, I'm not sure how hot is actually normal. Just a FYI, doesn't burn my fingers or melt the device, just's a bit uncomfortable touching near the very top.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exchange it. Mine doesn't get hot at all.
I just noticed mine was getting warm near the camera as well before I read this post. I was watching HD YouTube videos full screen though. It's back to normal now.
I exchanged it and it's been a couple of days already; seems like the issue is universal when playing games or having high CPU usage.
Yeah it's normal...it happens to mine as well. As long as the device isn't burning hot, the heatsink is doing it's job. This thing is powerful enough to replace laptops so heat is to be expected.
Anyone know an app that shows CPU temp in a widget? The only app I can find that shows actual CPU temp is Trickster Mod. All the other apps I tried just show battery temp.
I ran AnTuTu benchmark to where it was almost done - 87% after the 3d test - then I looked in Trickster and saw 56 degrees, quickly dropping to 42 deg. The battery started at 30 deg and reached 34.2 during the benchmark and didn't really drop down to 30 degrees after that.
I am a little surprised that there is no CPU temp apps on the market, with fancy graphs and stuff. Come on, devs, we don't care about battery temp. Tap into that CPU sensor, dang it!
Not Hell Yet!
kwmwtaj said:
I just bought a Samsung yesterday. Not sure if I can tell if it's warm or hot, but it does give quite a lot of heat. Specifically where it say's Samsung next to the camera and spreads of a bit to the screen and the back. Is that where the Exynos Octa 5420 is located? Anyone mind posting screenshots of how hot their CPU gets? I'd appreciate it so I can compare it with the temperature I get; I'll post my results soon. According to some search results on google though, people some people get that warm feeling.
My Samsung travel adapter that came with the product also heats up, but again, I'm not sure how hot is actually normal. Just a FYI, doesn't burn my fingers or melt the device, just's a bit uncomfortable touching near the very top.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was in my first meeting using my new Note 10.1 2014 edition and I noticed that it felt warm. I had the previous note 10.1 and never noticed it even getting warm. Is there an app that I use that will give me the temperature to post?
Doc
Same issue here from Spain. Its seems is for every Note.
Be careful, I know someone who broke his Note by playing like for 3 hours to Real Racing 3. The Note was extremly hot and it died. Model was a Black LTE Snapdragon.
diego-rbb-93 said:
Same issue here from Spain. Its seems is for every Note.
Be careful, I know someone who broke his Note by playing like for 3 hours to Real Racing 3. The Note was extremly hot and it died. Model was a Black LTE Snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was that a Note 3 that he broke? I was unaware the LTE Note 10.1 (2014) was released yet.
I just got that Real Racing 3 game and was going to play it. I will check my CPU temps after playing for awhile, though it's a little inaccurate since the CPU probably drops a couple degrees in the amount of time it takes to switch to Trickster Mod to check the CPU temp. I wish the FPS Meter screen overlay could show temps, kind of like EVGA Precision does for PC users, or I wish there was a CPU temp graphing application, or any app that keeps a min & max of CPU temp. Unfortunately, there isn't jack out there for CPU temp, but there are tons of apps that do stuff with your BATTERY temp. Who cares about battery?
UPDATE: I'm seeing 69°C and 70°C when playing games like Kingdom Rush & Real Racing 3. A tad on the warm side, but acceptable for me. I do have a case on the tablet, so that might make a little difference. It drops to 50° after about 10 seconds, then eventually down to 39°.
Compared it to my Galaxy S4, but I don't have those games on my S4 so I opened GTA3 & Block Story and checked the temps and saw 62°C. The Note probably gets a little hotter, but this test wasn't that long so take it with a grain of salt.
Hey guys! I've been playing a PSP emulator on my note 3 and it runs pretty hot. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of how hot is too hot for the cpu. The battery stays pretty cool so I'm not worried about the battery temp, only the cpu. Thanks in advance!
The cpu's in these things will produce some heat when fully ramped up.
Lorettaa said:
The cpu's in these things will produce some heat when fully ramped up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I am aware of that lol My concern is if i should worry about it and what temperatures should I watch out for. Thank you for your reply.
Liquorsicc92 said:
Yes I am aware of that lol My concern is if i should worry about it and what temperatures should I watch out for. Thank you for your reply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything over 100 f I would be concerned about. Enjoy!!!
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda app-developers app
The phones have a thermal throttle, so you should be fine unless you adjusted the throttle. In that case you should already know what's safe and not. And just an fyi, 100 degrees f is not hot for a cpu. Just when you feel something warm to the touch, that item is already at about 100 degrees f.
Thanks for your replies guys I really appreciate it!
I saw in a forum, 90 degrees for note 3 is still normal
Lorettaa said:
I saw in a forum, 90 degrees for note 3 is still normal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean 90 C? Because I expect 90F ambient temperature whole summer and the phone has to be at least that much, even when shutdown. Add a little bit sun exposure and it can easily hit 120-130F without doing anything and I'm not talking Death Valley, Phoenix or Vegas, up there with outside temperatures hovering around 110 F or more, unless you don't come out from AC cooled room at all whole summer, the phone will be hot. If I remember correctly my computer CPU would start throttling somewhere around 80C, but my computer's GPU could go close to 100C. I would think phone is similar, except without active cooling, it probably starts to throttle sooner.
I use Battery Monitor Pro, and it keeps track of daily temps for the week. My lowest is 97.2F, and highest is 104.2F. It gets hottest playing games, but nothing so hot that I have to stop. As previously said the phone has a built in throttle. You can even know when it kicks in as the screen will dim a bit even if you don't have automatic brightness on.
EDIT - And by lowest of 97.2F I mean that is the highest for the day it recorded, not the lowest my phone runs at. Sitting idle with the screen off it's around 86F right now. I've seen it as low as 76F.
My droid incredible would hit 118F on a regular basis. My GN3 so far has stayed below 95F. Live in Phoenix, but it it's just now starting to warm up.
pete4k said:
Do you mean 90 C? Because I expect 90F ambient temperature whole summer and the phone has to be at least that much, even when shutdown. Add a little bit sun exposure and it can easily hit 120-130F without doing anything and I'm not talking Death Valley, Phoenix or Vegas, up there with outside temperatures hovering around 110 F or more, unless you don't come out from AC cooled room at all whole summer, the phone will be hot. If I remember correctly my computer CPU would start throttling somewhere around 80C, but my computer's GPU could go close to 100C. I would think phone is similar, except without active cooling, it probably starts to throttle sooner.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad, 90F I mean, thanks for correcting, it's like about 32c.
Lorettaa said:
I saw in a forum, 90 degrees for note 3 is still normal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about that?
yes, google it
Is Touchwiz DVFS what controls the throttling?
Hi,
I'm using a Canadian Galaxy S4, SGH-I337M.
Rooted, running on Liquidsmooth 4.4.4 ROM. Also has Ktoonsez kernel. It is currently undervolted+underclock a bit, and is stable (I could overclock it, but I don't. No need).
Been wondering for a long time about the operating CPU temperatures of the Galaxy S4... Never had the possibility to do testing with CPU temperatures before. I do have a LG P500 that I have overclocked a ton in the past, still work just fine, but the LG P500 is old and do not support viewing CPU temperature, so it's my first time experimenting with that.
How hot would be too hot for this phone? There are several opinions, but never figured out if I... "minimize" the risks of my actual temperatures, for some reason. My laptop CPU throttle at 85 celcius for instance. While it's a phone, it's completely different.
At night, while connected to charger, it would be pretty cool, at 25-30 degrees when I wake up;
I would say that most of the time, my CPU is running at 50 celsius, and rarely ever exceed 65-70 under normal use, or even gaming. Plus, the CPU is undervolted and a bit underclock, so I do feel like it run cooler than usual.
Quoting Meowmix from Rogers forums:
It varies on the usage of everyone else & how you handle the phone ( cases & such). Also if you are in extreme heat or having the device in direct sunlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, the case does matter? I do have that Otterbox case which is pretty tight and enclose the phone pretty well, I would believe that the phone would get less.. air.. but I mean, it's just a case, didn't thought it would affect much..?
Quoting Ahmed from AndroidCentral Forums, I would say that I have a quite similar situation.
No, just when i ran AnTutu when it runs the 4 cores at the maximum frequency the temperature is between 80-91c, and at normal use while surfing the internet the temp. 45-55c and the battery reaches 38c after an hour of continuous using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I CAN reach 80-90 celsius, but only if I really want it to happen. 38 celsius for the battery is also correct, I never exceeded 41 degrees yet, on any Android phone (I don't know the dangerous battery temps.. But when I reach 40 degrees I try to put it down as fast as possible). With benchmarks, usually at the max frequency, or testing my undervolt with Stability Test, I CAN reach 80-90 celsius, which look really high. Additionally, I would remind that I don't overclock, and the CPU is undervolted so seems a bit cooler.
So on AndroidCentral, this is the reply Ahmed got, from "CR6" user:
I had to use my temp converter to look up & convert them to Fahrenheit. 80-91c equates to 176-195 Fahrenheit and that's extremely dangerous. These temps will not only physically burn you, but will fry your phone if you continue using it at these temperatures. 45-55c equates to 113-131 degrees Fahrenheit, and that is normal under really heavy usage. Optimally, you'd like to keep it at 38-45c. You may have a defective device if you regularly see temps over 80c and I would advise checking on a replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT dangerous? Well, I don't phisically feel the heat - I do feel it, but since I have that phone case, that doesn't hurt at all. But like I mentionned, I never reach 80 celcius or more unless doing benchmarks. Usually I never exceed 65-70. But still it left me wondering - Why does Android allow such high temperatures in first place? Isn't the system suppose to shut down at some point in case of danger, and when?
I've also experimented with thermal throttling in the Ktoonsez kernel, and the throttling values of the ROMs. Touchwiz Stock ROM with DVFS disabled, seems to throttle at 80 celsius, look decent. Liquidsmooth AOSP ROM, stock kernel, does not seem to throttle at all (Huh)! Once, and that was exceptionnal, I've reached 100 CELSIUS using Wifi, connect to a charger after like 2 hours, room temperature was very warm, was not surprised, but when I noticed I reached 100 CELSISUS, I was WOAW, I should shut down. I did reached 100 degrees again, using Stability Test at max frequency after a few minutes. Needless to say I manually stopped the test, because I had no idea how much heat the phone could handle...
So been aware of this, "Ktweaker" app, for the Ktoonsez kernel I use now, does have a thermal throttling option, but I wondering which thermal value should I enter for best "performance"? Default was 70 degrees, I set mine at 80, I've heard of people even putting 90 for the same kernel. Besides, maybe I worry about it too much, because in no way the phone should exceed 70 degrees celcius under normal use anyway, or even gaming. Only way to reach insane temperatures would be benchmarking/stress testing...
Still, first time seeing these CPU temperatures also. I've overclocked my LG P500 several times in the past, dealing sometimes with random reboot, so make stability/overheating questionnable, but the device did not supported seeing the actual CPU temp. So I don't know which temperatures would be considered normal - probably, nothing above 75-80, correct (For the Galaxy S4, actually)?
(Jason) said:
(From another thread)
I do know it can run up to about 180 before hitting critical and shutting down
Edit: its about a 75 degree ambient temp where im at.
Tapped² from my I5³5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At which point is the device supposed to shut down? Is that in the kernel or a hardware CPU trigger? Because heck, I've reached 100 degrees 2 times, I mean, how far/close was I from a shut down? I'm quite surprised.
I've also read of people complaining of S4 overheating, especially maybe after it was released - It's possible that it heats up more than other phones, but honnestly I have no idea.
Thanks for your answer =)
Going thru this exact same thing. Same temps. This is not normal. Mines just started happening one day. Idk how or exactly when
Kennii said:
Going thru this exact same thing. Same temps. This is not normal. Mines just started happening one day. Idk how or exactly when
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer;
Used to think some temps look normal to me - Besides, since I've undervolted last week, it's stable and run cooler, maybe better battery as well. I never can exceed 70 degrees even when gaming I supose..
I can reach 80 degrees, but only when benchmarking or stability testing, so I'm not worried, but I do wonder;
I've reached 100 degrees 2 times, once while doing a stability test at 1,89 GHz for like 5 minutes (or more), I had to manually stop. And last time was long ago, watched YouTube videos in bed, like under covers ha, maybe as well connected to charger. Not even surprised I've reach such temps after a while in such conditions, under covers, just no air (Used to do it with my LG P500 too. While I never was able to see the CPU temps on this device. Even then, LG P500 still works, but guessing build quality was much better). Needless to say I was like WOAW when I've noticed 100 degrees, and just put the phone down. Probably went from 80 to 100 quickly, didn't noticed that fast. But yeah, that 100 degrees was.. almost expected under such conditions.
I just really wonder about thermal throttling. Like I've mentionned, stock Touchwiz with DVSF disabled seems to throttle at 80, while KTweaker app for a different AOSP kernel have the default temp limit set to 70. Liquidsmooth ROM, AOSP, does not seem to have a throttling point, since I've reached 100 degrees 2 times with it (Don't intend to test 100 degrees again, huh). What would be the maximum ideal temp for throttling? Maybe I think about it too much, since under normal circumstances, I never exceed 70 degrees, besides benchmarks.
Also wondered at which temp is the phone supposed to shut down... 120 degrees?! XD Because 100 seems ridiculous to me, probably is, but yeah, my laptop throttle at 85, and it's a laptop (Intel Core i3) - Can't imagine a phone going any higher without any risk.
Thanks for the feedback
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
AFAIK Microsoft intended to fit an innovative kind of heat sink into their Lumia 950 and finally produced a standard design w/o particular cooling devices due to difficulties.
I have no clue how anything could be done. Except replacing the back cover with something thicker, offering room for heatsinks, fans, peltier elements or such.
But the Note should at least have thermal throttling and emergency shutdown features, like all current phones, which will throttle within the first half minute under full load.
franzli said:
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Thanks for your answers so far!
@lecorbusier yes, I suspect it has throttling, but in the interest of better running it would be nice to avoid throttling when possible. I'm not sure about the effect on battery life - throttling might be good in that a reduced frequency might need less energy, but running hot in the first place is probably bad for battery life.
In fact, part of my problem might stem from either the ROM or some apps I am running - Squid on temasek's CM13. Maybe I just never noticed this before, or didn't use squid so often, but I've noticed that the last couple of days CPU gets up to over 70°C at times with just some writing in squid. Not sure if this is normal, will probably post it in the CM13 thread. But my general idea/wish to improve cooling still stands independently of that.
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like an effective method (and I guess in a way one might call it a mod ). I'm thinking about something more portable, and hence passive though.
I will probably try opening up and having a look at the current cooling mechanism to see if adding a copper shim or a better silicone heat sink etc. might help things. Another consideration would be a modded case that contains some metal instead of plastic on the back side. That might help to take away some of the heat even though the plastic back of the device itself probably remains a poor heat conductor. Might be a complicated mod, but I'll see if I can come up with a way to do that. If/when I manage to get something done, or some new thoughts, I will advise here.
Any further input of course still very welcome!
Metal will disturb the various antennas.
A back cover replacement containing one or two fans, adding 1 to 2cms of thickness, and draining the battery with the fans while looking clumsy, thats the "best" solution I could imagine.
Or a back cover replacement containing one or two copper plates, cut and arranged in a way that the antennas aren't too handicapped. Probably you have to remove the various EMI shields to be able to establish direct contact between the chipset and the plates. That is, if the chips don't have contact with the shield plates.
I think this will be something never been done before, but probably after.
Like the battery mod for phones, where you solder one battery together with a second one and cut a hole in the back cover, that the now double-thick battery may fit. That's already been done.
Good point about the antennae, I hadn't thought about that! That also makes sense of the lack of metal cases (facepalm). Might still try modding a case with some metal in some spots at some points, but good to keep in mind how this might impact wifi and bluetooth.
My plan was to see if there'd be a chance to fit some slim copper plates in strategic position on top of the CPU inside the normal case. I'll have to open it up and see how much, if any, space there is - but will probably try this first on a Galaxy Tab S 8.4 that I rely on less for productivity (and that does actually get way to hot, to the point of self-shutdown). Whenever I find the time that is...
Will report when I get around to doing anything on the Note (and might open a topic at the Tab S forum in case I do try a mod there first).
I added a copper shim for cooling to my Galaxy Tab S (will put a more detailed post on that forum when I find some time), which seems to have helped to control temperatures somewhat better. I had two odd crashes, but had some before I did the mod, so am relatively confident that's a problem of the ROM rather than my mod.
Will probably try it on my Note as well soon and report here for anyone who might be interested.
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
franzli said:
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the update. I did some baseline checks for you, using the same StabilityTest app for consistancy purposes. I am also on temaseks build, cm13 more specifically. I run temaseks 12.1 build just as often as the cm13, so I will run the tests there as well. I revert back to my stock rooted kitkat rom about 1 or 2 days per week so I'll check the temps on that ROM as well.
So, at idle I'm a little warmer than you, hovering between 37C and 40C. Under normal use (like web browsing) I'm between 50C and no higher than 57C. Under stress (again, using same app) I was at 90C at 5 minutes and 91C after 10 minutes. So slightly warmer on low end, nearly identical on the big end. I have the samsung flip cover thats specifically made to fit the 2014 edition on mine, so that could account for my slightly warmer temps. Its worth noting that when gaming on a VERY cpu demanding game, I never reach anything above 78C. Its probably one of the top 10 most cpu demanding games on play store and BY FAR the most I ever demand from my CPU, consuming a whooping 1.5-2Gb of RAM at times.
I'll check the numbers on my other 2 normally used ROMs here in the next few hours and I'll post those results too :good:
On a side note, my galaxy s6 phone (completely stock, near new) averages nearly indentical cpu temps and after researching the matter on it, I found that those temps (on the s6) are what others are getting as well. So it seems that, generally speaking, samsungs might just run with warmer temperatures. I did see somewhere that 100C is kinda the 'YIKES!' point for them and that they start clocking down around that temp to prevent permanent damage
franzli said:
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've done some testing with a few different ROMs and I think you might be as susprised with the results as I am. First of all I need to correct myself in my last post. The initial testing I did was on temaseks unofficial CM12.1 build, not on the CM13 build. I have now tested on temaseks cm 12.1 and cm13 builds, my stock rooted & debloated 4.4.2 ROM and an old nandroid backup I have of hyperdrives 4.4.2 ROM. Heres what I found...
Temaseks CM13 build ran the hottest and was by far the most stressful on the processors and therefore ran the hottest. It consistantly kept the CPU clocked at near max (even when set to "ondemand"), whether needed or not (with no background process running) and would only reduce power when forced via CPU governor or was at the safety threshold for temperature, which I can now comfortably say is about 95C. Tablet was slightly warm to the touch at idle with a temperature of between 50C & 55C. Under moderate load temperature jumped very raidly to the mid 80C range and then would stay there pretty steadily. Under heavy load, CPU temp quickly peaked at 94C where while watching the CPU output, it was obvious the CPUs were going in & out of protection mode as they would drop to 1600MHz, then peak at 1900MHz, 1600MHz, 1900MHz & repeat this. I didnt let this go on for more than about 2 min before shutting down and allowing tablet to cool.
Next, I repeated tests on both touchwiz based kitkat ROMs I have backups for. 1 of them is stock, rooted, debloated and un"tweaked". The other is stock, rooted, debloated and tweaked. Both ran MUCH cooler, peaking at 80C & 82C. These were ocassional spikes and actually averaged around 75C when under heavy load. Now comes the good news...
I have identified a major contributor of excessive CPU temps. When testing on the touchwiz ROMs and observing CPU clocking in relation to CPU temps, I found that the governors are set lower in these touchwiz ROMs. They were a steady 1300MHz with the occasional 1600MHz spike. They averaged 55C to 63C under moderate load and when under heavy load never reached more than 82C.
So, I am now back on my long time daily driver, temaseks cm12. 1 build and I'm ditching the CM13 build entirely. At least for now. I have set my CPU governors down to 1300MHz and with heavy load for nearly 30 minutes (gaming) my CPU peaked at 85C. So my findings were that CM ROM has overclocked the CPUs excessively. They are set to 1900MHz, which has become obvious to me brings them right up to their temperature safety threshold, 95C. It seems Samsung clocked them at 1300MHz and allowed for occasional spikes above this point, keeping them at a maxium & slightly more reasonable 85C a full 10C cooler than their maximum safe operating temp.
I never expected I'd stumble on not only a source, but also that I've been utilizing the solution for months. I should add that governing the CPU lower has had absolutely no effect on performance. I regularly shut down 1 or 2 CPU cores as it is. I found that the tablet will run perfectly under normal use with only 2 cores. This reduces temperature and increases battery life. Sluthing can be so much fun sometimes, it was right in front of my face I just never put 2 & 2 together lol :good:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
thebadwrench said:
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
ollimi1 said:
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
thebadwrench said:
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
View attachment 3732472
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, good news!
I am positive surprised that kernel Adiutor is working, seems we have build-in UCI, which is needed, nice! Using KA on my OP2 since a long time but there is no custom kernel for p600 cm13 roms so I have not tried!
Will try it now!:good:
Thanks!!
thebadwrench said:
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I replaced the silicone heat pad on the CPU with a copper shim and thermal compound, added some small silicone pads around other components (all under the heat shields) and added a .5mm silicone heat pad on top of the main heat shield to enhance contact with the back plate. I do have some pictures, but I want to provide a proper write-up and currently don't have much time as I'm moving. Will hopefully find a chance to give a more detailed write-up in May - sorry for the delay, but full report is forthcoming!
As for the CM13 issues, @joshndroid apparently implemented some changes to it in the last build, so I might check that out, although I agree that CM12.1 is probably still the safer bet for a stable daily driver.
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Franzli,
The kernel seems odd to me!
The small A7 cluster is virtually unused and clocked only to 650MHz @ 1200ma !! Normal is 1.3GHz @ 1200ma for the small A7 cluster on 5420! Also a lot of warnings and errors in ksmg!
No idea whether the A7 ever used or permanently in idle mode, Lol!
Also all 4 big a15 cores are always online, what means no hotplug driver available!
I don't know if we will ever see a good kernel for CM13 because of the missing sources.
Although the kernel is running and mostly stable it is far from "good"!
Power consumption is almost doubled, problems with overheating and sometimes cpu is locked at max. speed and the only way to solve it is a reboot.
I don't remember the cm12.1 kernel but he was definately better in terms of battery runtimes and reliability.
BTW, I'll also mod the device cooling using bigger copper sheets instead of the perforated aluminum sheets, thermal-pads and thermal-grease when I start changing my battery and usb jack, what is definately neccessary in my case!
Maybe I will buy one of the small heatpipes used in S7 or so when I find them somewhere.
It is not difficult to adjust it if needed, so that it can replace the heatspreader.
Mabye it is needed to isolate the heatpipe from the mainboard but nothing what a piece of kapton tape not can do.
franzli said:
Hi all!
[...] But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures [...]
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? [...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hallo there
Well I just did the job. I have also made a short manual and would like to share it with you. But first some things about me and my tablet.
I bought a used galaxy note 10.1 2014 edition SM-P600 couple months ago. I was really disappointed about the device performance. Switching from stock android 5.1 to [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] did some improvements in performance. But since I am a very heavy web surfer I was still not satisfied with the performance. I have also tried [P600][Touchwiz] Marshmallow Rom 20170622 and went back to RR because I can play around with the CPU governors and all that deathy audiutor stuff. Between very nice work Exynos Team and all the other developers...
Soon I realized that the SM-P600 becomes fairly hot in the backside. I took a look at the ifixit pictures. There was no other way finding good resolution pictures of the inside.
I ended up installing cool tool app. Well is there any other good app for monitoring temps, clock and load in overly?
Well so I added frequency, load, battery temp and cpu temp. You need to add cpu temp manually. I guess it is Label ->
custom label -> enable- Then you have to go fine tuning -> custom label -> path:/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp. leace everything as it is. regex is (\d+)\d{3} and add postfix °C and prefix cpu:
.
So I went along and analysed heat and temps in the galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. Especially frequency-temp-ratio. And I can tell you this buddy is everything else than cool. Temps jump up so fast I can't tell you. Even some fast scrolling on ebay, facebook desktop web page in browser treated the Temperature to the hight 80s and soon the high 90s. I have also seen the things franzli mentioned before. Even light work put so much heat to the processor. Watching the frequency and temperature bounce was a pain. I could feel the pain that little Exynos 5420 must suffer of all the time.Throttling is the only ways this little buddy can survive To make it short I decided to do the cooling mod...
So lets see what I found on my journey ... I can tell you that's a big surprise
I opened the case very easily. You can find tons of videos on youtube or use ifixit.
Well I have to mention I am an electronics hardware engineer. So doing this stuff is nothing unique for me. And I have years of professional PCB manufacturing, repair experience.
Opening the case, adding some tape and this is what you get...
As you can see there is a little thermal pad applied to the aluminium shielding. And boooom there you are . Do you see all thet flux solder remains? How come samsung? Seriously?
This is the shielding close up with that thermal pad.
As you can see the FBGA package is covered with flux from soldering. So it is naturally, that the cooling in the galaxy is a pain. There can't bee any good heat flow.
So let's check that thermal pad.
woops that little buddy is kinda to small. I am sad to see this.
Well I cleaned the surface as good as I can with ethanol. After this I applied a new Thermal pad.
After that it looked like this.
Then I closed the shielding case and cleaned it.
So next comes the actual cooling mod. I added a big thermal pad.
I had to cut that little hook in the back plate. So that the 100mmx100mm copper layer will fit in shape.
And this is it done.
So what about the results :laugh:
The back plate fits perfectly. If you know there is a thin layer of copper you can feel it. But it is so less. I had no problem closing the case. Ahh yeah I had to tage it with double sided tape, so it is pressed down to the thermal. The back plate will do the rest pressure.
And really don't worry about the wifi interference. There is no worry. Because the copper layer is located on top of the bettery pack and shielding case. Why should there be any interference? I have tried. Reaching same wifi performance as always. No worries:good:
So what about heating. Well my galaxy note stays pretty cool.
I need to mention this is all mesured with the [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] I mentioned before.
I used interactive governor.
I reach in Antutu v6.2.7 about 57000 to 58000
In futuremark work 2.0 I get 4000
Here some pics
I am sorry for that high resolution pics. But I wanted best of (bad) quality. I used my redmi note 4 for taking pictures. If you can't read all in the pics, just open in new window.
There isn't any more throttling at all. It is hard to push to 85°C or above now. Just with synthetic GPU and CPU load on all four cores at once. And it takes a couple of minutes. But in real world you will never get it. With only load on one core my maximum is 69 to 72°C. The tablet fells pretty nice now. The warming in the back plate is reduced to a very large surface. So sometimes it fells as if your hands warm up the case.
Can you suggest me any ROm with a good overclocking potential? I have already tried this ROM. I really don't know why, but it keeps crashing all the time at 2GHz or 2.1 GHz. Even with no load at all. I guess the used kernel is bad.
Do you have any ROM suggestion for me.
If you have any quastions and things you want me to test write me.
Just wanted to share my experience with you. I didn't expect a dirty PCB, BGA and thermal pad like this. So what do you think about this.