Develop Bugs

[Video demo] Connectivity - USB OTG, MHL, RDP, bluetooth keyboard/mouse/gamepad!

Thought this might interest owners and potential owners:
Incidentally, tried Splashtop after the video over 3G whilst out and about today - amazing! Watched a video with sound - playback was smooth. Hardly any lag via 3G in a reasonable coverage area. Also installed an antivirus to my laptop and did some other useful stuff while I was having a coffee at Bunnings - RDP on a 1280x800 screen is awesome.
I should be receiving a USB DAC in the coming week too, so will update as to whether that works or not...
UPDATE: USB DACs do NOT work with the USB OTG feature (as expected). Shame, because the cheapy one I got today sounds amazing compared to my laptop and desktops sound cards! The one I have is a HiFiMAN Express available from here for only $40. Not really for audiophiles, but for those who can appreciate better quality at a fraction of the price these are very good (I think Gizmodo linked to an audiophile review of them where he said they were 70% as good as the sound put out my a $400 sound card, not bad for what the HiFiMAN costs).

NZtechfreak said:
Thought this might interest owners and potential owners:
Incidentally, tried Splashtop after the video over 3G whilst out and about today - amazing! Watched a video with sound - playback was smooth. Hardly any lag via 3G in a reasonable coverage area. Also installed an antivirus to my laptop and did some other useful stuff while I was having a coffee at Bunnings - RDP on a 1280x800 screen is awesome.
I should be receiving a USB DAC in the coming week too, so will update as to whether that works or not...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry,
can you tell me what is the model of the gamepad you use?
Thanks.

Thank you very much for this post. This pretty much seals the deal for me. I will be grabbing one soon.

After watching your video, it looks like I need to find me a nice 20"-23" LED HDMI monitor to go with my Note.

Thank you for this awesome video.
Disappointed to the fact that USB hubs don't work, specially because someone in the forum answered me to this same question saying "yes"
In fact my question was if a SB keyboard and a USB mouse can work together using a USB hub.
Could you please confirm this case?
Thnks!

Pere said:
Thank you for this awesome video.
Disappointed to the fact that USB hubs don't work, specially because someone in the forum answered me to this same question saying "yes"
In fact my question was if a SB keyboard and a USB mouse can work together using a USB hub.
Could you please confirm this case?
Thnks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there, sorry if it wasn't clear in the video - the hub itself works fine, its just that using the hubs external power source to power portable HDDs that the Note can't supply enough power to on its own doesn't work (it does in the SGSII). I presume that KB and Mouse would work together with a hub, but unfortunately I can't confirm as I don't own models that are compatible with the Note (or the SGSII).
If anyone in Auckland has some that are compatible I'd love to try this out for people.

NZtechfreak said:
Hey there, sorry if it wasn't clear in the video - the hub itself works fine, its just that using the hubs external power source to power portable HDDs that the Note can't supply enough power to on its own doesn't work (it does in the SGSII). I presume that KB and Mouse would work together with a hub, but unfortunately I can't confirm as I don't own models that are compatible with the Note (or the SGSII).
If anyone in Auckland has some that are compatible I'd love to try this out for people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can confirm that Keyboard and Mouse together work well on SGS2 using powered USB hubs, however its very unstable and sometimes freezes the phone. Hope it becomes better with ICS.
Do you mean that external HDD's can be powered by SGS2? I never thought its possible, seems I need to test that again as my HDD is NTFS formatted so wasn't recognized the last time I tried.

Prankey said:
I can confirm that Keyboard and Mouse together work well on SGS2 using powered USB hubs, however its very unstable and sometimes freezes the phone. Hope it becomes better with ICS.
Do you mean that external HDD's can be powered by SGS2? I never thought its possible, seems I need to test that again as my HDD is NTFS formatted so wasn't recognized the last time I tried.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the SGSII can't supply external HDDs - I was saying that they do work with the SGSII when connected to a hub that has it's own power supply (that doesn't seem to work in the Note however...).

I don't own a hub but I was able to use a 120 gb external 2.5" USB hdd on the note with external power.
The hdd came with a y cable for additional power supply. I just used the note charger to supply power.
I had to format the hdd with fat32 of course. Win7 wouldn't do it, not with GUI and not on command line.
A app did it http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm.
Another thing was to make 1080p movies playable from the fat32 hdd. I used mkvtoolnix to split the movie into 4gb files.
https://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/
With diceplayer I was able to play them without any problems.

What resolution does your laptop run at? When I installed splashtop (phone version), I get set to 1024x720 resolution (looks crappy), while my home PC is 1600x1200. I wonder if splashtop HD would allow me to use the native resolution of my PC (1600x1200)? Any way to install HD apps on the Note?

I set my laptop to run at the same resolution as Splashtop when I'm not at home (otherwise it runs in 1080p).
Don't worry, Splashtop are working on a release version for HD phones (probably just an update to the phone Splashtop) and it'll be available soon - I've been in contact with them recently.

NZtechfreak said:
I set my laptop to run at the same resolution as Splashtop when I'm not at home (otherwise it runs in 1080p).
Don't worry, Splashtop are working on a release version for HD phones (probably just an update to the phone Splashtop) and it'll be available soon - I've been in contact with them recently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, Ill hold off on purchasing. Do you know if there is a way to install HD apps on the Note when the market states they are incompatible?

VTEChump said:
Thanks for the info, Ill hold off on purchasing. Do you know if there is a way to install HD apps on the Note when the market states they are incompatible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not that I'm aware of as yet, some talented dev here needs to work it out for us!
UPDATE: USB DACs do NOT work with the USB OTG feature (as expected). Shame, because the cheapy one I got today sounds amazing compared to my laptop and desktops sound cards! The one I have is a HiFiMAN Express available from here for only $40. Not really for audiophiles, but for those who can appreciate better quality at a fraction of the price these are very good (I think Gizmodo linked to an audiophile review of them where he said they were 70% as good as the sound put out my a $400 sound card, not bad for what the HiFiMAN costs).

Thanks for this thread. Very good information.
But I think it's a bit annoying that it's not 'real' upscaled HD, but just the resolution of the Note (1280x800) being outputted to the screen.
I think Splashtop technically looks very good. But I don't like the security - it seems there is not any encryption in the software, not even the passwords!
What bandwidth does Splashtop require over a 3G connection to be stable? And how intelligent is the streamer to figure out which quality to stream in, in order to get the optimal dynamic stream without lag/pauses ?

drelle said:
Thanks for this thread. Very good information.
But I think it's a bit annoying that it's not 'real' upscaled HD, but just the resolution of the Note (1280x800) being outputted to the screen.
I think Splashtop technically looks very good. But I don't like the security - it seems there is not any encryption in the software, not even the passwords!
What bandwidth does Splashtop require over a 3G connection to be stable? And how intelligent is the streamer to figure out which quality to stream in, in order to get the optimal dynamic stream without lag/pauses ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what bandwidth it requires over 3G for stability, I was in a reasonable reception area at the times I've used it over 3G - may have been the amount of bandwidth on offer but the experience was really great with minimal lag (bad upload for my PC at home is the rate limiting step here).
Must be some other Splashtop users here who can chime in?

Great video.
Does an ordinary usb keyboard work directly on the Note?

oronte said:
Great video.
Does an ordinary usb keyboard work directly on the Note?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
And if keyboard layout is other than the English version, all the special signs (%&Ç@#) works correctly?

VTEChump said:
. Do you know if there is a way to install HD apps on the Note when the market states they are incompatible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, just use an older version of Market - pull it from an old ROM. And freeze "market updater" in Tibu.
/system/app/Vending.apk

oronte said:
Great video.
Does an ordinary usb keyboard work directly on the Note?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they do, tried one today. Some USB mice also work, will try and connect both with the hub when I get home and see how that goes.
Will also revisit HDD connectivity too, as I have a second note Rooted with CF Root - possible that the drives weren't working because of Netchips kernel (in the same way that WiFi tether was broken).

Great video
Iwas surfing around for a page that ensures this device has definitely tv-out feature. I could not be sure for it, cause at most of the pages promoting galaxy note, it is not being said exactly..
Anyway, found here, and watched your video. now I want a galaxy note even 10 times more..
Thanks man, great job..

nVidia Grid on Nexus 7

A couple of days ago, nVidia presented their new portable gaming device alongside one particular feature. The ability to stream PC games via cloud and from a nVidia powered PC with GFE (equipped with at least kepler Ge Force GTX 650) to any device able to have their Grid client.
This is nothing more than the evolution of what Splashtop brought (with nVidia sponsorship) on CES 2012 (confirmed by nVidia Italy itself on Facebook).
Now during the conference it was stated that the client would have reached every android device (not only Tegra ones nor Project shield) and in the next days some hands-on with different "non-shield" devices were recorded.
Finally also the one recorded on Nexus 7 landed (cortesy of Droid-Life)
here it is:
I honestly think that if there will be the option to customize controls other than the only gamepad, the Nexus 7 could be even a better device that the shield itself for this kind of gaming (even if it lacks the Tegra 4 SoC). Furthermore it will surely be a great boost for android gaming in general (thanks to the direct support of nVidia and their money / partners- compared to the influence of Splashtop Inc.). The staff of the Tegra page on FB confirmed me that Grid (that I intend in its incarnation of both LAN (via GFE) / internet streaming (via third party partners)) will have a different timetable than Project Shield, so I think we'll have the opportunity to enjoy this feature sooner than the release of Shield (maybe at the same time with the announcement of the Nexus 7 successor @ Google I/O or even sooner with an open bea :laugh

SimoxTav said:
A couple of days ago, nVidia presented their new portable gaming device alongside one particular feature. The ability to stream PC games via cloud and from a nVidia powered PC with GFE (equipped with at least kepler Ge Force GTX 650) to any device able to have their Grid client.
This is nothing more than the evolution of what Splashtop brought (with nVidia sponsorship) on CES 2012 (confirmed by nVidia Italy itself on Facebook).
Now during the conference it was stated that the client would have reached every android device (not only Tegra ones nor Project shield) and in the next days some hands-on with different "non-shield" devices were recorded.
Finally also the one recorded on Nexus 7 landed (cortesy of Droid-Life)
here it is:
I honestly think that if there will be the option to customize controls other than the only gamepad, the Nexus 7 could be even a better device that the shield itself for this kind of gaming (even if it lacks the Tegra 4 SoC). Furthermore it will surely be a great boost for android gaming in general (thanks to the direct support of nVidia and their money / partners- compared to the influence of Splashtop Inc.). The staff of the Tegra page on FB confirmed me that Grid (that I intend in its incarnation of both LAN (via GFE) / internet streaming (via third party partners)) will have a different timetable than Project Shield, so I think we'll have the opportunity to enjoy this feature sooner than the release of Shield (maybe at the same time with the announcement of the Nexus 7 successor @ Google I/O or even sooner with an open bea :laugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used splashtop thd and I was able to play any game even just cause 2 just from streaming from my gaming computer. It worked perfectly fine on my N7 I don't see any reason why I would buy a device like this when I already own a device that can do the same thing.
Sent from my LG-C729 using xda app-developers app

Splashtop?
What's that?
And is OnLive working with N7?

AFAinHD said:
I used splashtop thd and I was able to play any game even just cause 2 just from streaming from my gaming computer. It worked perfectly fine on my N7 I don't see any reason why I would buy a device like this when I already own a device that can do the same thing.
Sent from my LG-C729 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, with the move from nVidia to make the technology available to all android devices, the only benefit compared to Splashtop THD is that the application will be directly supported from nVidia (that is not a startup nor currently involved with iOS).
It wasn't a topic about nVidia Shield but about nVidia Grid (that are 2 different projects with their own roadmap, simple shown together during the conference)
However Splashtop is lacking in the support of their app (several critical bugs are more than 1y old) (p.e. I had to tweak an XML profile via text editor to fix the mouse flickering issue in their app) and they have also to develop the iOS "traditional" version that it's surely more profitable for them than the THD one (in fact talking to their support center their confirmed that are short on resources to fix those bugs in short times).
Furthermore nVidia Grid will be probably free on LAN side (so potentially better than Splashtop), but it will be also available via 3G and 4G/LTE (but the service will be provided by third party owned Grid Server Farm). A feature that Splashtop simply doesn't have

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Splashtop?
What's that?
And is OnLive working with N7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will semplify:
Splashtop = Remote desktop gaming via LAN streaming YOUR OWN hardware (Google Play)
Onlive (as you know) is the same thing of splashtop on the "internet" and is offered as a service with THEIR hardware (is currently in bankrupt due the expensive architecture, a technical problem solved by nVidia Grid with virtualization).
nVidia Grid will be BOTH (for the LAN side supported directly via nVidia through their Geforce Experience Program and for the "Internet" side provided by third party like Playcast)
For OnLive for N7 the device isn't officially supported, but IMHO it should work

The question is - will Grid work on N7/N10/current top tablets?
Or is it going to be Tegra 4-exclusive?

To me...YES!
Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
The question is - will Grid work on N7/N10/current top tablets?
Or is it going to be Tegra 4-exclusive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Grid (for its "internet/cloud" side) for sure, was declared during the conference ((link, look from 0:24:00) and was also shown there (even if in a limited environment having the rack next to the devices and not "on the internet"). To see other devices running it there is the video in the opening post and several other hands on showing it running on N7, HTC X and LG Smart TVs.
Grid (-or whatever it's called- for its "LAN" side, basically the evolution of Splashtop THD streamer) is currently promoted only on the Shield Project page but considering that is the same H.264 compressed stream that travel from a server to a client but in a local environment, if it can works on internet, why shouldn't work on local? If what Mr Huang said ("as long as you have a mobile processor able to manage h.264 you can run grid) is true, directly from nVidia or from someone that extract the APK, we'll easily have the client.
On the server side everything is needed is a GeForce GPU (at least GTX650) and the GeForce Experience Program, so no particular gimmicks.
Seeing Splashtop THD running smoothly on N7 is enough to state that the hardware is powerful enough to handle it (as long as we're speaking on internal screen (so 720p) and i'd say up to 1080p (even if Splashtop doesn't support on its THD version). Probably 4K screens and concurrent miracast streaming to both the devices will be an exclusive for the power of T4 (and with a very good wireless repeater i'd say), but without a video output option on the N7 is not our scenario at all

I don't see much point of using 4K HDTV's with a tablet to run a gaming streaming program. It's much easier to just play on a console or connect your gaming PC to a HDTV and use it as a monitor to utilize the power potential and play graphics-heavy things like Crysis in the resolution it was meant to be played

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
I don't see much point of using 4K HDTV's with a tablet to run a gaming streaming program. It's much easier to just play on a console or connect your gaming PC to a HDTV and use it as a monitor to utilize the power potential and play graphics-heavy things like Crysis in the resolution it was meant to be played
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. Furthermore, talking about raw numbers, accordingly to this a streaming of an H.264 720p video (in high quality)@ 30fps, takes about 6Mbit/s that is currently a bandwidth available even on a good G router (and on several mobile providers). Considering the target of 60 fps we will need a surely at least a N router to avoid hiccups during the stream. However, rising the resolution to 4k the bandwidth needed for 60fps is about 70mbit/s that is simply insane to reach completely wireless if not sitting next to the PC and the router (as always seen in all the presentations) or having a real powerful dual band router...So to me the streaming makes sense only on portable devices up to 1080p. Above there are surely other solutions

SimoxTav said:
I completely agree. Furthermore, talking about raw numbers, accordingly to this a streaming of an H.264 720p video (in high quality)@ 30fps, takes about 6Mbit/s that is currently a bandwidth available even on a good G router (and on several mobile providers). Considering the target of 60 fps we will need a surely at least a N router to avoid hiccups during the stream. However, rising the resolution to 4k the bandwidth needed for 60fps is about 70mbit/s that is simply insane to reach completely wireless if not sitting next to the PC and the router (as always seen in all the presentations) or having a real powerful dual band router...So to me the streaming makes sense only on portable devices up to 1080p. Above there are surely other solutions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, as I understand, to use Grid you must not only have a more or less fast Wi-Fi connection (or mobile network if it allows it), but also have a device powerful enough to decode the picture being streamed from the server/your PC, right?
I've seen a couple of vids with the above-mentioned Splashtop GamePad THD - and it runs with noticeably less framerate than it does on the PC that the app was demonstated with
It's kinda strange though, because unlike Grid and Splashtop - the OnLive required to have only a fast enough internet connection which bandwith would allow to process the stream from the server, and the technology didn't require you to have a powerful hardware, meaning that you could even run things like Battlefiled 3 with maximum quality on a 5 year old PC
So why did NVidia decie to go the other way around?

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
So, as I understand, to use Grid you must not only have a more or less fast Wi-Fi connection (or mobile network if it allows it), but also have a device powerful enough to decode the picture being streamed from the server/your PC, right?
I've seen a couple of vids with the above-mentioned Splashtop GamePad THD - and it runs with noticeably less framerate than it does on the PC that the app was demonstated with
It's kinda strange though, because unlike Grid and Splashtop - the OnLive required to have only a fast enough internet connection which bandwith would allow to process the stream from the server, and the technology didn't require you to have a powerful hardware, meaning that you could even run things like Battlefiled 3 with maximum quality on a 5 year old PC
So why did NVidia decie to go the other way around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More or less every device today is able to manage (encode/decode) a H.264 stream so basically the "requirements" for the client device are not so strict (I'd say similar to OnLive indeed. Consider that having a compressed stream means less bandwidth used, on the other hand a decent CPU is needed to handle the task). The main difference is about that the THD version is specifically optimized to use one core of Tegra 3 just for the decoding process. Talking about the framerate of splashtop, I'll measure it somehow (I need the GF reflex but i'll try with a phone ), however I never noticed so much difference between the 2 devices (assuming that I have an intel core-i5 + GTX 670 and a DGND3700).
To be completely honest, however, I didn't even noticed a difference between the THD version and the "Splashtop 2 version on the nexus 7 (Splashtop 2 is free so is worth a try and compatible with a wide range of devices).
May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?

SimoxTav said:
May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:
You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:
...cut...
You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'd say the difference is crystal clear. Probably for Grid/Project Shield they improved their codec to grant a smoother output (nVidia Italy said something related to it on Facebook (Link)
Quanto mostrato è una evoluzione di questa tecnologia, ancora a livello prototipale, quindi purtroppo non siamo in grado di risponderti con precisione, non essendo neppure noi a conoscenza dei dettagli
Translated:
As shown is an evolution of this technology (Note: Splashtop), still at prototype level, so unfortunately we are unable to answer precisely, since neither are we aware of the details
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recorded on the fly a video for BF3, both server and client are connected via wifi (this isn't the optimal scenario but due the distance I can't move the desktop around the house). Talking about numbers there are no excuses and even on side by side comparison the difference is noticeable; however taken each one singly, the experience is IMHO enjoyable). Tomorrow I'll try with Splashtop 2 the same test (that one comes from a different developing branch, more recent than THD so maybe there will be improvements)
Video
FYI:
I used the render.drawfps call on BF3 (embedded in the engine) and FPS Meter on Android so was easy to see their framerates side by side. On PC the game is configured on Ultra with Vsync so no more than 60fps.

Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
Does the in-game graphics setting have an influence on the framerate of the streamed picture?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For this i quote what Eurogamer stated during the faceoff between OnLive and Gaikai (that should be based on Grid servers) (Source)
Improved visual quality server-side also has ramifications for video compression. Hard edges with no anti-aliasing will be harder to encode than a richer, smoother picture derived from the game running on higher graphics settings - after all, these video compressors were designed with real life footage in mind, not raw game visuals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So better compression means lower bandwidth, however the framerate of both the stream and the server play a big role.
Basically, fewer unique frames (60FPS) means less work for the compressor to deal with when encoding the video stream. From another perspective, dropping down to 30FPS also provides double the amount of bandwidth for image quality and thus delivers overall clarity closer to the experience of gaming on local hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.
I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?
Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice

Fatal1ty_18_RUS said:
IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.
I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?
Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but more than graphics visuals details, their fast pace gameplay is the worst for this kind of technology.
However it seems that with grid the performance are clearly better

Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?

ÜBER™ said:
Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that NVidia can afford to run a service like this (imagine how much resources they need to provide this streaming, especially in a perfect state)
Look at what happened to OnLive
So probably it's gonna be, like, 10-15$ a month or so, not too much (like if you'd rent a game from a shop like GameStop or such) and multiplied by the number of NVidia-powered devices (including phones, tablets and computers/notebooks/etc) - it's gonna bring some $$$ for the company

ÜBER™ said:
Did they specify if this was going to be a monthly subscription type deal or a pay for the games and what not like onlive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their GRID architecture for cloud will be sold to third parties (Playcast, Ubitus, etc) and nVidia will not provide its own service directly. However talking on the LAN side of the application, it should be promoted and supported directly by nVidia (even if for now is shown as a "Shield only" feature) but I expect to see it at least on "all" Tegra devices (due the fact that if the service can work on the cloud, make it working on LAN is surely easier.

What features make the shield better than $50 android boxes?

Before anyone says game streaming I wanted to know if there was any other features that I should consider when deciding over a cheap android box and the shield. I owned a cheap android box for 2 years and it was really good but it was slow and never got updates but kodi worked perfectly until 17 update, but it's hard justifying a $300 price tag for the 16gb over $50 for the cheap one.

1. CPU performance, much faster then any s912, especially it have active cooling make it can keep in full speed, if you use any old amlogic box you will know you just can't decode any 1080 hi10p due to either the HW decoder not support or CPU not fast enough for SW decode. The shield can do it by CPU with 50-70%cpu usage max. Also although newer amlogic such as S912 support h265 but it is very buggy, the shield TV on the other hand is very stable.
2. For Android gaming I don't think you can find any android box in this size/price can better then it. Sure you can get a x86 box but that will much more expensive and larger.
3. Support 1080 ycbcr 422 12bit , I don't have 4K so dunno what is support, but as I remember there are no other cheap android box will support this output. (Sure you will need to take care the HDMI version mismatch problem if you got AVR)
If you will not use Plex and don't need IR then I suggest you just get the 16GB version, by the way I attach a 128GB USB stick to store my mame rom, much faster then hdd version.
Previous I use mi box and some other android box, but I can say shield TV is the most problem free and the fastest one for me.

$50 android boxes are junk, period. These things should be illegal to sell in USA. The manufactures are horrible at support & you never get updates. The only time a cheap android box is worth buying is if there are active private developers. Here's where the price difference matters, your $50 box lasted you 2 years. I've had my shield tv for almost 2 years & my guess is it'll still be alive & kicking in 10 years & still be my main media center. The shield tv was released as a future proof device, meaning it has a long life span while the $50 junk boxes have a very short limited life span hardware & software wise, you'll be replacing these types of boxes every 2 years.

Since when was the 16GB version $300?!

What feature(s)?!
In One Word... Widevine L(evel)1 support. (Ok tht was Two Words, whatever...)
Why is this a big deal? In Two Words this time. Amazon, and Netflix. In full UHD, let alone FHD. Your ~50$ 'Droid Box most likely will never have it. The only exception to that rule would be the Xaiomi Mi Box. Which like the Shield TV is a licenced AndroidTV Box. Which is based on the well known AmLogic S905 SoC. I have no ideas on how, or if Amazon will ever be ported to it. For now I gather it's a bit of a Shield exclusive. But, Netflix should be fine, along with the other usual suspects.
There is also the Gaming, and Emulation side of the Device, that puts it well ahead of the competition. With its small but exclusive Titles under the nVIDIA Lightspeed Studios. But, that may not be enough to convince a mass take up of it considering the initial cost.
If all you need is a cheap Kodi Box than by all means. You could pick one up, and gamble that you get a working one. Note I got burnt TWICE with an AmLogic S912 SoC Device. The first One cooked itself, while using Chrome, and the Second came with a defective WiFi Chip. So you take your chances with an unknown when buying One of these Devices.
When it comes to Updates, you'd be lucky to see a few Bug fixes before whoever's in charge gets bored, and moves on. nVIDIA have been supporting the Shield TV since it came out in 2015, and they will probably still be supporting it for a while yet with the 2017 version.
One last thing you might like to know about Kodi, and these Cheapo Boxes. Unless those Manufactures get off their​ butts, and code their CODECs to Android spec. Kodi will only ever function in Software mode only. Which will have a major impact on Video performance. Alas I don't know if the Mi Box also has that problem. Given its a specialized AmLogic build, perhaps not? But, a native Netflix App does not a Kodi make.
Of course there is One other thing that separates both the Shield TV, and the Mi Box. (Which I hinted at earlier.)
They are both Licenced AndroidTV units. And, in case that isn't quite clear to you. Then a word of caution to you. AndroidTV​ ≠ Android (e.g. Some generic 'Droid Box.), You should expect to see virtually nothing in the (AndroidTV), PlayStore. Certainly nothing like what most People probably imagine, after getting off the PlayStore on their Samsung Phablet. And, you can thank Google for that!
se1000 said:
Since when was the 16GB version $300?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably since nVIDIA weren't able to meet the demand for the Device which drove Scalpers to scalp it along with the Pro for Upwards of 600€'s, and no I wish I was making that up. The only time the Shield came down to reasonable levels, was just before they announced the Shield 2 (a.k.a. The Shield TV Slim), which was rightly rejected by those who already had a Shield. Seeing that I was able to get a used '15 Pro for 'round 200€ back in January. Good luck finding one now, for that price. If I wanted to spend nearly 300€ on a used One. I would rather just buy the new '17 Model for a fraction more. (i.e. 329€).

Ichijoe said:
What feature(s)?!
One last thing you might like to know about Kodi, and these Cheapo Boxes. Unless those Manufactures get off their​ butts, and code their CODECs to Android spec. Kodi will only ever function in Software mode only. Which will have a major impact on Video performance. Alas I don't know if the Mi Box also has that problem. Given its a specialized AmLogic build, perhaps not? But, a native Netflix App does not a Kodi make.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct on this, most cheap android box had broken mediacodec support, as KODI remove the amcodec support so either 1. switch to old version/spmc which have amcode, 2. SW decode, but the cpu not fast enough most of the time.
the google version of mi box's mediacodec are ok, but it still cannot hw decode hi10p (main reason I switch from mi box to shield tv)

DummyPLUG said:
You are correct on this, most cheap android box had broken mediacodec support, as KODI remove the amcodec support so either 1. switch to old version/spmc which have amcode, 2. SW decode, but the cpu not fast enough most of the time.
the google version of mi box's mediacodec are ok, but it still cannot hw decode hi10p (main reason I switch from mi box to shield tv)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Outside of actively getting off my [REDACTED] to search for some hi10p Materials, back when I was still knee deep in Linux VDR (i.e. HTPC). The chances of actually encountering anything actually encoded at 10bits is extremely rare. And I do likes me some KissAnime. So I would chalk it down as a nice to have feature, and not the Killer One, that Widevine Level 1 is. As only the Select TVs running ATV, or the MiBox, and Shield TV are capable of such high end DRMs, for legaly being able to watch Netflix in either FHD, or UHD.
Since those other Boxes only have Widevine Level 3. You'd be lucky to watch Netflix in 480p MAX!
So for me that's a bigger deal going forward. Mores the pitty that the MiBox is virtually useless outside of North America though.

Not going into hard core comparison as far as audio support and video support but just general laymen comparison.
As reference current devices I own a A95x cheap android box, Fire TV Sticks, Nexus Players and 2nd Gen Fire TV, Roku2, Shield TV Gen 1
1. Performance - I didn't think the difference would be that huge since I mainly just use streaming services and apps like Netflix and Kodi to name a few but it's noticeable even in just those two areas. My FTV2 was snappy I thought compared to my other devices but the Shield just Launches apps quicker and goes through local and internet streams a lot smoother. Not a gamer but I have used them and let kids use them to try games and again just performance is amazing.
2. Ease of use my gripe with the a95x cheapo is It was IR remote and the interface just sucked. FTV2 and FTV sticks had their own interface over Lollipop and this too I am not a big fan of. Nexus Player and Shield TV are very straightforward and use the Leanback Launcher IMO easier to use and get google play store unlike Amazons offerings.
3. You get what you pay for. It's an investment that hopefully it will last. Performance wise I'm not worried about having to get a new box for a while now. Also the build and the remotes just are more appealing with the metal finish and all and they are rechargeable (yes the drawback is it's not replaceable batteries). It's running official Android TV yes the Playstore is limited for TV devices but for average user that doesn't want to side load and just works great out of the box it's perfect.
If cost is an issue like it was for me just wait for a deal or find one used if you're willing to take the chance. I just got my 1st gen Shield 2 weeks ago because I bought it used for $120 and had I tested it beforehand I never would have bought my a95x, fire tv sticks. I am happy with the Nexus Players I scored those for $40 but it's discontinued and my FTV2 but the Shield TV kicked those devices out of the family room and now those are in mine and kids bedrooms.
If performance isn't a huge deal then I wouldn't upgrade. If it is but cost still too high there are alternatives Fire TV (Just ew Amazon interface) and Nexus Player (Discontinued) or Mi box (Owned for a month and returned it performance wasn't as good as Nexus Player).

I have 2 fire sticks, a firetv box, and the new version of the shield TV. The shield is fast and responsive, but I don't think its performance justifies the price. If you not going for game steaming... I would just use a firetv box. Kodi performance is on par.
Here is my problem with the shield TV. Ram. For its price point I would expect 4gb of ram. This was a huge mistake I feel when they released the new version.
Don't get me wrong, I love my shield but if I didn't get mine for 175 with a deal, I would have not got it.

I couldn't disagree more with the majority of what's been said. It is true that the shield is an investment. It's worth it in the long run to get a shield. Talks of "4gb of ram" are comical at best. You want 4gb of ram buy a jetson tx1 for $500+ The point is, 4gb of ram isn't required when you have a constant power source. Take the Nintendo switch for example, yea sure it's basically a jetson tx1 (4gb ram) but clocked at a much lower speed to run on battery.

I would say it depends greatly upon how you want to come to the Shield TV. If your looking at it as just another in a long line of 'Droid Boxen, then that is how you will see it. If your like me, and your coming in from the huge running costs of an HTPC, with VDR Recording capabilities. Then the Shield becomes self-evident. As it can do those same jobs in a much tighter Footprint, and use just a microfraction of the Electricity to do it. Everything else is just a nice bonus. e.g. The Games, Emulations, Android itself.
So no Op is correct the Shield TV isn't the right answer for everyone. If for example Op wanted just the cheapest Box to do the most basic streaming (Amazon, Hulu, Netflix HBO Go, etc....), Then the Amazon Fire TV, would be right up his street. But IIRC, that only had 2GB of RAM, not that you would need it.

Also, if you want extra storage, you're better off getting the 16GB model and adding an external HDD. The way Nvidia set up the Pro model is kinda dumb - everything (including the system ROM) runs on the HDD, not flash, so it's really slow. It's also not user-replaceable without voiding the warranty and a lot of hassle. 4 TB portable drives are a bit over $100, so you can get a lot more storage for almost the same price.

Mogster2K said:
Also, if you want extra storage, you're better off getting the 16GB model and adding an external HDD. The way Nvidia set up the Pro model is kinda dumb - everything (including the system ROM) runs on the HDD, not flash, so it's really slow. It's also not user-replaceable without voiding the warranty and a lot of hassle. 4 TB portable drives are a bit over $100, so you can get a lot more storage for almost the same price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might be true... But it's not like you couldn't just clone the contents of the Original SSHD, and then write that to the heavier, faster SSD. There are at least Two Threads on that subject, that I'm personally aware of. As to it being slower? That only applies when doing things like unlocking the Bootloader (a precursor to rooting), or factory resetting​ it where in both cases it'll take the best part of 2h to complete. Under day to day use However, I greatly doubt there is any major difference in the overall speed.
Also the newer Slim (and, light) Shield TV, also lack a few things, like the IR Port (for Harmony Remotes), and the OTG MicroUSB Port, and worse of all the MicroSD Slot.
Also one thing about Adopted Storage, e.g. adding external Storage. Just because you could add a 4TB SS/H/DD, doesn't give you licence to go 'round installing everything to your heart's content as not everything will be installed to External (Adopted), Storage and you will most likely be scratching your head about not having enough Space to install some Game even if you have the best part of 4+ GBs left inside in your External Storage. Just the way it is on my Phablet alas Adopted Storage is kind of a lie. As I see it.

If you replace the Pro HDD with an SSD, you're paying $100 just for the hard drive bay. (Edit: I did not realize the Pro hardware was basically unchanged.) Also, I would not recommend using an HDD as adopted storage anyway. Better to leave it as NTFS since Android network transfers are so slow.
Finally, it is possible to boot the Shield TV from an external SSD. You need a special boot image (MM only unfortunately) and an SSD in a USB enclosure. It's a bit tricky to set up but works pretty well. A Nougat version is in the works.

Ichijoe said:
That might be true... But it's not like you couldn't just clone the contents of the Original SSHD, and then write that to the heavier, faster SSD. There are at least Two Threads on that subject, that I'm personally aware of. As to it being slower? That only applies when doing things like unlocking the Bootloader (a precursor to rooting), or factory resetting​ it where in both cases it'll take the best part of 2h to complete. Under day to day use However, I greatly doubt there is any major difference in the overall speed.
Also the newer Slim (and, light) Shield TV, also lack a few things, like the IR Port (for Harmony Remotes), and the OTG MicroUSB Port, and worse of all the MicroSD Slot.
Also one thing about Adopted Storage, e.g. adding external Storage. Just because you could add a 4TB SS/H/DD, doesn't give you licence to go 'round installing everything to your heart's content as not everything will be installed to External (Adopted), Storage and you will most likely be scratching your head about not having enough Space to install some Game even if you have the best part of 4+ GBs left inside in your External Storage. Just the way it is on my Phablet alas Adopted Storage is kind of a lie. As I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try enable force app install on external in developer options, I had no problem to save everything to my USB.

widevine. L1

So I've been asking this question on almost all the new phones' forums recently because it's never mentioned in any of the spec websites or the manufacturers website. None of the YouTube tech channels check it either except for one which he also forgets to do for some of the phones.
The question is.... Is this phone Widevine L1 certified?
Anybody who already bought the phone can check through downloading an app via playstore. App name is 'drm info'.
Screenshot would be appreciated for anybody who are looking for this particular feature in the next phone they're gonna buy. Thanks in advance guys.

I'm 99.9% sure if will only have level 3, no other Xiaomi phone has anything different. However, I'd also really like to know for sure as this might decide whether I get this phone or not.

confirmed only L3 as shown in this video review
https://youtu.be/0rjZx_5JD1s?t=10m46s

SUPERUSER said:
confirmed only L3 as shown in this video review
?t=10m46s
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the information good sir

The china rom has L3 because it doesnt need it, global rom it has L1, just wait

I have the official global ROM (9.6.6.0, phone arrived in an English box with English instructions) - L3 only. Sorry.

Isnt this just a software limitation?
Would it not be possible to just replace som .so and .lib files and manually make L1 work?

SUPERUSER said:
Isnt this just a software limitation?
Would it not be possible to just replace som .so and .lib files and manually make L1 work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated by XDA themselves on the Pocophone:
Fixing this problem via an OTA update won’t be possible, most likely. There have been some devices that received updates that bring Widevine L1 certification, but those devices already had the required device-unique secret key in the TrustZone. It’s unclear if this is the case on the Pocophone F1. If Xiaomi chooses to address this issue, they’ll either have to offer a service like OnePlus did or roll out an update that enables L1 support on the software side. Keep in mind that G
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-poco-f1-widevine-l1-netflix-hd/

benq3000 said:
As stated by XDA themselves on the Pocophone:
https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-poco-f1-widevine-l1-netflix-hd/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah so its a chip that runs side-by-side that you cannot access from the main cpu.
Almost like Intel AME with the ME running Minix.
Either a virtual machine running on the soc or a physical chip that communicates back and forth to the soc.
If the kernel image is virtual placed somewhere in the phone there might be a challenge finding this and modify it but keeping the original signature so the phone will boot..and of course it needs to be decrypted.
If its placed on a separate chip its a whole other story. Only way to access and write to that chip is to connect to it with test points or either solder cables to it or desolder the chip reprogram it and solder it back on.
Info: https://source.android.com/security/trusty/
This is for Qualcomm. So its a separate chip inside the soc..seems to have no way to access it from outside
https://github.com/doridori/Android-Security-Reference/blob/master/hardware/TEE.md

For anyone considering whether to buy or not buy the phone based on this piece of information:
Yes, it only has Widevine Security Level L3, but in my personal opinion, even though it's capable of streaming Netflix or Prime Video content in "only" SD quality, that doesn't look bad at all! I'd consider it to be fully on a par with DVD quality, even in view of the device's display size. It's definitely nothing like a blocky low quality Youtube video or something.
In fact, 'til considering to buy this phone I never realized that something called a "Widevine level" even existed or there were phones not having the "best"/"highest" one; so when I tried to compare with the display quality of my recent Huawei Mate 8, I just then realized that it also(!) "only" got L3 and I nether even noticed the supposedly "low" quality.
So, by all means, if this phone matches all or most of the other criteria you might have and you're no snobby screen density or HD video quality connoisseur, who even spots imaginary pixels on a Full HD display 'cause it's not 4K, 8K, nK... HDR and whatnot, please don't miss out on a perfectly good phone (especially regarding the seeming lack of alternatives in the ranks of real(!) phablets)!

benq3000 said:
I have the official global ROM (9.6.6.0, phone arrived in an English box with English instructions) - L3 only. Sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mind if I ask where you ordered from and how much you paid?

forwardroll said:
Do you mind if I ask where you ordered from and how much you paid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure!
Sadly, it won't be of much help.
I ordered it from a local shop in Israel called GoMobile. It cost me 1,270 NIS (355$) for the 4/64 variant.

Patneu said:
For anyone considering whether to buy or not buy the phone based on this piece of information:
Yes, it only has Widevine Security Level L3, but in my personal opinion, even though it's capable of streaming Netflix or Prime Video content in "only" SD quality, that doesn't look bad at all! I'd consider it to be fully on a par with DVD quality, even in view of the device's display size. It's definitely nothing like a blocky low quality Youtube video or something.
In fact, 'til considering to buy this phone I never realized that something called a "Widevine level" even existed or there were phones not having the "best"/"highest" one; so when I tried to compare with the display quality of my recent Huawei Mate 8, I just then realized that it also(!) "only" got L3 and I nether even noticed the supposedly "low" quality.
So, by all means, if this phone matches all or most of the other criteria you might have and you're no snobby screen density or HD video quality connoisseur, who even spots imaginary pixels on a Full HD display 'cause it's not 4K, 8K, nK... HDR and whatnot, please don't miss out on a perfectly good phone (especially regarding the seeming lack of alternatives in the ranks of real(!) phablets)!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... 480p is DVD quality... So you are spot on with that.
The real issue is that we are in the age of 1080p+ and 4k BlueRays.

MrColdbird said:
The real issue is that we are in the age of 1080p+ and 4k BlueRays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that's right, I just wanted to add this to the discussion, because reading about this issue, I somehow got the impression, that the quality would be much worse than it actually is and I wanted to help others to put this in perspective accordingly.
I guess many of us also still have large collections of DVDs or even still buy new ones and don't consider the quality to be particularly "bad", although - of course - one could always do better. So I don't think they'll consider the streaming quality offered by this device to be particularly bad, either (4K or better isn't an option here anyway, regardless of Widevine level ).
So, to get this straight: Streaming quality on this device in SD quality is much like the difference between a Blu-ray and DVD - not like a DVD vs. an old-timey blocky/blurry YouTube flash video. If you can live with that and see no other downsides, you likely won't regret your purchase, otherwise: rethink! That's all I wanted to say.

Patneu said:
I somehow got the impression, that the quality would be much worse than it actually is and I wanted to help others to put this in perspective accordingly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a big HD Nazi so I'll probably not mind much but I do watch 1080p copies if they are available simply because why not. I won't be crying wolf over this, especially because I'm fairly sure a custom ROM will rectify this issue further down the road, but it is something I don't understand given how much media the populace consumes at a regular basis now-a-days. Especially on a device who's main feature is a big screen.

We should talk about this issue. Because nowadays android phone's screen gets bigger and bigger.
My mi max 3 has 6.9 inch screen. And I know Honor 8x max has 7.2 inch screen.
And newer device and flagship goes 6+ inch screen. And there have so many 8.4 inch or 9 inch screen android tablet.
Why people pay for the big screen? People wanted to see TV screen-ish quality, right?
That means video playback should increase it, too. Doesn't it?

visually said:
We should talk about this issue. Because nowadays android phone's screen gets bigger and bigger.
My mi max 3 has 6.9 inch screen. And I know Honor 8x max has 7.2 inch screen.
And newer device and flagship goes 6+ inch screen. And there have so many 8.4 inch or 9 inch screen android tablet.
Why people pay for the big screen? People wanted to see TV screen-ish quality, right?
That means video playback should increase it, too. Doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be absolutely honest I bought it for YouTube, manga & comic reading and it's absolutely phenomenal battery.
Netflix and the likes are just the cherry on top... Besides, you can install a patched Netflix APK that skips the widevine checks and feeds you the 1080p streams anyway... Even if your device doesn't have L1.

Oh, thanks for the tips, MrColdbird.

MrColdbird said:
To be absolutely honest I bought it for YouTube, manga & comic reading and it's absolutely phenomenal battery.
Netflix and the likes are just the cherry on top... Besides, you can install a patched Netflix APK that skips the widevine checks and feeds you the 1080p streams anyway... Even if your device doesn't have L1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You meant something like this?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/an...-ultrahd-ultrahd-dolby-5-1-l1-t3535349/page26
This stuff no longer works and there is no workaround for a higher quality than 540p on L3 phone. Already tried lot of these apps :/ movies get ultrahd content icon, but that's it. It won't go higher than 540p, you can check that on test patterns.

If you can tell the difference between DVD and HD on a 7" screen ~350 ppi then you are not watching whatever you are watching... You are looking for those imperfections... Enjoy the content and don't look deliberately for things you might not see... It's a under $300 device after all...

Need help with my LGE LGLS990 "ALT Switch" Gaming console Project (G3 Boost Mobile)

Need help with my LGE LGLS990 "ALT Switch" Gaming console Project (G3 Boost Mobile)
Wasn't sure which G3 forum to put this in due to none being devoted to this specific one so please forgive me if this isn't the right place. Recently I was looking at the Nintendo Switch for some on the go gaming and noticed how difficult it was to find one in stock at any local retailers. Well after getting online and only finding overpriced, Switch Lites going for regular Switch MSRP and standard Switch prices running in the $500 range I decided maybe it would be possible to come up with a "ALT Switch". My requirements seem to be met by the G3, decent SOC, 32gb onboard storage, 3gb ram and a sub $30 dollar price. I plan on pairing this with a bluetooth controller, 64gb sd card and a OTG hub with hdmi and charging. So with the hardware sorted out I started testing various games out and almost everything works pretty well. My problem comes when I play Call of Duty Mobile. It of course runs in low graphics mode but that isn't too bad, the problem comes when it randomly crashes out of the game or lags real bad. I have a LG Rebel 4 with a Snapdragon 425 and 2gb of ram that handles the game on about the same level and is more stable. So I've narrowed down the problem to the outdated OS and trying to run the games in 2560x1440. I would like to drop the resolution down to 1080 but there's no option for that so I started looking for ways to do it. Seems it's possible with a couple programs but those all need ROOT access. So between that and the benefits of a newer version of android I decided to look into rooting and installing a custom rom. Long story short, I've had no luck. If anyone knows of a easy to follow guide to root, unlock the bootloader and install a newer version of android on this hardware I'd love to hear about it. I'll be doing a article and possibly a video on this project depending on how far I can get.

Hmmmmmm......
Okay... Since no one has any ideas does anyone know anybody on the forum who knows their stuff and would be trustworthy enough for me to send my G3 to and have it rooted at the very least? I really think the hardware on the G3 is plenty powerful enough to play anything out there at a good level of detail and good frame rates. I think lowering the screen resolution dropped to 720p or 1080 and change of the performance governor to non interactive mode would give close to top tier chipset performance without the price penalty.
bigwootoo said:
Wasn't sure which G3 forum to put this in due to none being devoted to this specific one so please forgive me if this isn't the right place. Recently I was looking at the Nintendo Switch for some on the go gaming and noticed how difficult it was to find one in stock at any local retailers. Well after getting online and only finding overpriced, Switch Lites going for regular Switch MSRP and standard Switch prices running in the $500 range I decided maybe it would be possible to come up with a "ALT Switch". My requirements seem to be met by the G3, decent SOC, 32gb onboard storage, 3gb ram and a sub $30 dollar price. I plan on pairing this with a bluetooth controller, 64gb sd card and a OTG hub with hdmi and charging. So with the hardware sorted out I started testing various games out and almost everything works pretty well. My problem comes when I play Call of Duty Mobile. It of course runs in low graphics mode but that isn't too bad, the problem comes when it randomly crashes out of the game or lags real bad. I have a LG Rebel 4 with a Snapdragon 425 and 2gb of ram that handles the game on about the same level and is more stable. So I've narrowed down the problem to the outdated OS and trying to run the games in 2560x1440. I would like to drop the resolution down to 1080 but there's no option for that so I started looking for ways to do it. Seems it's possible with a couple programs but those all need ROOT access. So between that and the benefits of a newer version of android I decided to look into rooting and installing a custom rom. Long story short, I've had no luck. If anyone knows of a easy to follow guide to root, unlock the bootloader and install a newer version of android on this hardware I'd love to hear about it. I'll be doing a article and possibly a video on this project depending on how far I can get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse