UPDATE: Used hide tags to organize this post better and make information easier to find.
Alright, so you've got a shiny new Moto G5 plus, which supposedly has a similar Sony imx sensor as the one found on flagships like the Galaxy S7 and Pixel2. Yet, you are somehow disappointed by the camera's quality.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
Turns out the camera sensor on this thing is actually pretty darned good, and the f/1.7 lens is no slouch, however it is being held back by poorly designed software from Moto/Lenovo.
Before I got into the solutions, let me specifically point out the problems I found with the camera so we're on the same page (click to reveal content, or just skip the fixes below):
1) Overzealous Sharpening and aggressive Noise Reduction are the biggest culprits. It almost looks like a bad filter is being applied to your images, turning fine details into mush and contrasty lines like text into something bizarre and artificial looking. The camera is doing this as part of the internal capture process, so this happens no matter what application it is taken in.
2) Highlights clipping earlier than it should. I'd say this might be a function of the camera's sensor more than the hardware, but analyzing RAW data from the sensor (more on that later) in my admittedly unscientific half-hazard naked eye, I'd go out on a limb and say it seems like we're not being shown all the DR the camera is able to see. To the layman: this means brights turn completely white effectively overexposing parts of the image that should otherwise still look OK.
3) The preview/viewfinder mode is even worse at #1 than the captured image is. That is, the preview mode (the video feed you see before you capture the full resolution image) is still applying the sharpening and NR at the same level as the captured image, however since the resolution is lower for the preview, it looks more exaggerated and ugly. This means two things: A) Its hard to tell what the image you take will look like, as the preview is ugly (and you have to hope the final will look better), and B) some apps use the preview feed as their capture method. For example, snapchat and augmented reality apps like Pokemon Go. It just looks terrible.
The good news is that there is a lot that can be done to improve and fix the camera.
The bad news is that almost all of it requires modifying system files. That means those with locked bootloaders (Amazon ad users or those who are afraid of voiding their warranties) might be out of luck.
You don't necessarily need root access, although some of this can be more easily performed with root. I needed to unlock my bootloader and performed most of this within TWRP, but chose to keep my phone otherwise unrooted. I'm going to split this into sections, fixing and improving.
A) FIXING THE IMAGE PROCESSING ISSUES
If you want to remove/circumvent the aggressive sharpening and NR issues (so that apps like snapchat or other camera applications don't look over-processed, including the stock Moto cam), try the following:
1) Chromatix mod. Shout out to @defcomg for finding and adjusting the values that control sharpening and NR in the system libs. See thread here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-plus/themes/modcamera-aggressive-sharpening-noise-t3604458
There are two sets of files to replace in your system. Chromatix and LIBMM. NOTE: I don't recommend the LIBMM / binning part. Binning is combining pixels together into an averaged single pixel value, effectively reducing resolution to combat noise on the sensor. In other words, instead of having a large possibly noisy image, you get a smaller less noisy picture. But you can always choose to resize the image in post after you take it with the same resulting effect, so I don't see why this would be desirable to do. I recommend just applying the chromatix mod to remove the sharpening and NR. If you're comfortable using TWRP, there's actually a flashable zip in post #9, which is what I personally did (again, remember I'm not rooted, so I needed to flash/overwrite/etc within TWRP).
After applying this mod, even the stock camera app looks better, and apps that use the live preview (Snapchat, Pokemons AR view, etc) don't have the shadow ghosting from excessive sharpening anymore either. You might want to apply some sharpening and NR in post yourself if the image requires it, but thats always something you can choose but at least you have control over it and even without doing that it looks far better and more natural than stock to me.
2) Enable camera2 API. This doesn't have a direct effect on quality, but will allow other apps to have more direct access to the camera. If you want to improve beyond the results of #1 above, you'll need this.
The stock rom, surprisingly, has Camera2 API included, however it is disabled by the build.prop file. Again, no idea why Moto/Lenovo chose to do this, but the good news is you can enable it again easily. To do this, you need to add the following line to the build.prop
persist.camera.HAL3.enabled=1
Or if rooted, via terminal / shell:
su persist.camera.HAL3.enabled 1
Once this is enabled, you can use apps such as the modified freedcam to shoot RAW, as found here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-plus/how-to/how-to-enable-camera2-shoot-raw-root-t3582392
I found RAW from this app particularly difficult to work with, so I'm keeping it for experimentation purposes but for practical real-world usage, I'd recommend the next item below.
B) IMPROVING YOUR PHOTOS (or, how to install Google Camera!)
Section A was all about how to avoid the crummy filters that get automatically applied to the camera. But your device is capable of even BETTER photos by using Google's magic HDR+ algorithm (the special sauce that makes the Pixel phones so awesome). Here's how to do that:
1) If you haven't already enabled the Camera2 API, you need to do that first (info in section A above).
2) Get a working version of Google Camera with HDR+ for your phone. The last available 32-bit version with HDR+ is Gcam 4.2, so if you're on the stock ROM like I am, you're stuck with only the 32-bit versions (all the new versions with the bells and whistles are 64-bit only). The image quality is remarkably better, both in sharpness and dynamic range in almost any light. I have to admit, I'm in love with the images from this, and have even printed some for my wall.
You can get the APK ported from the Nexus 5x version here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74081041&postcount=3
UPDATE: New version from Savitar on post #44!
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=75483974&postcount=44
Problem is, our cameras use a different focus system than phones like the Nexus and Pixel. So, in photo mode, it doesn't really work correctly. Switching over to video mode, however, DOES work (likely using contrast detection focus, which is slower but more universal, especially for video focus). So the workaround is to swipe over to video mode, focus, swipe back to photos and press-and-hold to lock focus. It's annoying, but HDR+ is that good that I still try to work with it much of the time.
For times that it would be frustrating or not necessary, I'll just resort to the stock camera app or Footej camera, since the chromatix mod makes them mostly usable now. Just not ZOMG AMAZING like the Google HDR+ does.
OPTIONAL #3) Install a 64-bit custom Rom and use the latest Google Camera HDR+ app floating around (v4.4). The recent versions B-S-G released based on the Pixel camera has options to change camera modes in settings, some combination of which supposedly focus properly. You will likely get a more stable camera app experience with this as it requires less modification to work, but you'll have to be committed enough to go off stock.
Check out the app and suggested settings to try here:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74999182&postcount=19
Thanks @shanks125 for the info!
Update 1/3/18: I just heard there is a port of the new portrait mode feature from the Pixel2 that is sort of working on 64-bit roms, but I think some modifications will need to be made to avoid focus drift like previous modded gcam versions.
There is also a 32-bit version of the new v4.4 that @Aby lad came up with in this thread:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/google-camera-4-4-arm-device-t3666090
In order to make it more compatible with other devices, it looks like he has disabled the Hexagon DSP, which I think is what makes HDR+ work, so while we can now change settings and focus, HDR+ isn't working. The app still has some Google goodies like Sphere and Blur mode, but without HDR+ the real benefit of Google camera is lost anyway. Might as well use stock with chromatix mod at that point.
Hope some of you find this helpful/useful!
UPDATE 12/28/17: New GCam with 6P features on post #14.
There actually may be some alternate versions of the gcam apk with benefits the one originally linked above doesn't have. I will try to update when if/when I find them.
Dishe said:
There actually may be some alternate versions of the gcam apk with benefits the one originally linked above doesn't have. I will try to update when if/when I find them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be useful!
So if I apply the chromatic mode, do I still have to enable the Camera2 API?
It's my bad. I would like to know if there is a way to disable Camera2 api. I am on Linage 14.1 and I edited my prop.build (yeah, I know). I switched back to the original line of code, but camera app still crashing. How to revert without reflashing the rom? Thanks.
edit. reflashed.
iBART said:
It's my bad. I would like to know if there is a way to disable Camera2 api. I am on Linage 14.1 and I edited my prop.build (yeah, I know). I switched back to the original line of code, but camera app still crashing. How to revert without reflashing the rom? Thanks.
edit. reflashed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try clearing data+cache for the camera app?
iamsonal said:
So if I apply the chromatic mode, do I still have to enable the Camera2 API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, but it doesn't hurt to so why not? Some apps will have more options in camera2 if enabled.
iBART said:
It's my bad. I would like to know if there is a way to disable Camera2 api. I am on Linage 14.1 and I edited my prop.build (yeah, I know). I switched back to the original line of code, but camera app still crashing. How to revert without reflashing the rom? Thanks.
edit. reflashed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is another way to enable camera2 api if you're using a custom ROM. You need to flash a magisk module.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=74081041&postcount=3
Which Google camera works in a complete stock g5? I keep getting a praising error with every one I try.
eemgee said:
Which Google camera works in a complete stock g5? I keep getting a praising error with every one I try.
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Click to collapse
Parsing error means you are probably trying to use a 64-bit or one made for a different version of Android (7.1 instead of 7.0). The one linked above will work.
However, all recent versions of Google's Camera require the camera2 api to work. That's one of the primary reasons to enable the Camera2 api in my opinion. It comes in the stock rom, but it is disabled for some inexplicable reason (G5S model has it enabled, so some people are hoping that we'll get it enabled with an update or at least when Oreo rolls around). The good news is that it only takes one line of text in the build.prop file to enable it on the G5+. However, the bad news is that build.prop is part of the protected system partition, so editing it requires root-level file access. Doesn't seem to be any way to do that without unlocking the bootloader, so either way you won't be able to do it on a 100% stock g5+ as things are right now.
Thanks i managed to get 2.7 working.
I will unlock the bootloader at some point in the next few weeks....
There is also a Magisk module in post #54 on that Chromatix thread. Really helpful!
Hi, so in search for better images from my g5+ camera I stumbled upon this place and rooted my phone to add the chromatix mods and edit the build.prop file .
I downloaded the google camera port v4.2 for the hdr+ but have been unable to install it as I get the error that package may be corrupted.
So could someone please link me to one which is good or upload it.
And BIG thanks to this community.
New gcam from savitar
UPDATE: Better gcam version from Savitar/Defcomg
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=00826724446841525700
Features:
Burst Mode (hold shutter button)
Focus doesn't drift when switching from video mode (this is a huge fix IMO- old app would drift after setting focus in video mode).
Selfie cam now has HDR as well (with caveats)
RAW image capture with each photo!
Instructions for use are largely the same as the old app, but it works better / more reliably now:
WHEN USING APP FOR THE FIRST TIME, GO INTO SETTINGS AND CHANGE VIDEO TO 4K. This will prevent FCs.
To take a picture:
1) Swipe left to switch to video mode, tap to focus
2) Once focus is achieved, swipe right to return to photo mode. (Focus should not drift in this version)
3) Tap the area again in photo mode, and hit the shutter button.
NOTES:
It appears that you no longer need to press-and-hold to lock focus in photo mode before shooting. I believe this is because the focus system doesn't adjust anymore in photo mode (I'm guessing Savitar/Defcomg removed it to combat that focus drifting problem). It is already locked at wherever you put it in video mode. You DO however need to still tap the screen as if you are focusing. I think this is because the camera needs to think it is focusing, but it is anyway helpful to tap somewhere for metering / exposure reading purposes. Skipping the press-and-hold to lock focus makes it a lot more manageable.
This version of the app is setup to shoot RAW+Jpeg, so you will find your camera roll will have both a jpeg and DNG file of the shot. Be aware that the RAW DNG files are multiple times larger than the jpeg, so you may want to keep an eye on storage if you shoot a lot of them. They're really useful if you want to adjust WB and exposure afterwards, quality is astoundingly good.
Selfie Mode was broken in HDR+ on earlier builds because for some reason the front camera on our phone doesn't return an ISO value to the app (says iso is zero). The HDR+ algorithm would fail. Savitar/defcomg fixed it by setting it always return a value (he picked 100, otherwise it would overexpose in daylight). The catch is that in lower lighting, the selfie HDR+ comes out darker than expected. Thankfully you can take the RAW file and adjust the exposure in post if needed (snapseed, Lightroom mobile, etc). But there might be times it is just too dark to be useful. The difference when it works is big enough that I recommend it trying it at least once to compare.
ENJOY!
Big shout out to @defcomg for this and all his awesome mods!
Landscape gcam 6p
A modified version of the APK above is available which starts the camera off focused at infinity.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=31694573387513766779
This was made for people who want to shoot landscapes and/or things far enough away that they don't want to deal with focusing (swipe to video mode, etc). See a beautiful sunset for example, open this app, tap the sky and hit the shutter. Its already focused in the right position.
Otherwise identical to previous post's apk. Can be installed side-by-side, as each app has its own ID.
can't use gcam because it crashes at first run
marcol87 said:
can't use gcam because it crashes at first run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do u have camera2 API enabled?
Dishe said:
UPDATE: Better gcam version from Savitar/Defcomg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for sharing this.
Add this, BSG GCam MOD with working HDR+ and Touch to Focus for 64bit roms. Settings as per attachment! https://androidfilehost.com/?fid=889964283620770378
Dishe said:
Do u have camera2 API enabled?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I added persist.camera.HAL3.enabled=1 to build.prop and rebooted
Dishe said:
persist.camera.HAL3.enabled=1or
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ps: the string persist.camera.HAL3.enabled=1 is wrong in the OP
Related
Hi,
I'm the developer of Open Camera, and looking at the OnePlus 3 as a potential new phone and test device, but I'm curious as to its support for Camera 2 API. I was wondering if people could share their experiences of using third party camera apps with Camera2 API enabled - either in Open Camera, or others like Snap Camera and A Better Camera (all these have options to enable Camera2 API)? In particular:
* It seems a lot of devices have problems with flash and Camera2 (either flash doesn't fire, or misfires so pictures come out under or overexposed). I finally managed to get Open Camera flash working on my Nexus 6, but no luck on a Samsung S7 (precapture doesn't seem to trigger). How does the OnePlus Three do with Camera2 and third party apps?
* I see some reports that manual exposure times don't work (e.g., http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/help/camera2-api-broken-oxygenos-3-1-2-t3400886 ), though they mostly refer to the "more than one second" times (which most Android devices don't even offer). I'm less bothered about that, but does manual exposure time (and ISO) work at all (even for less than one second) in Camera2 API on the OnePlus Three?
* Around a year ago I see lots of reports that RAW didn't work on the One Plus devices (either not at all, or pictures were wrong). Supposedly this was fixed, but can anyone confirm that this is working properly on the OnePlus Three?
Thanks in advance!
mark
I use CM 13. So the following observation will most probably differ from Oxygen OS. I hope someone else using the stock ROM provides their input too.
1. Flash is unusable with Open Camera. I tried with Camera2 enabled and disabled. When its enabled, the overexposure is less but overall the picture is still horrible. CM's Snap camera that comes with the ROM works fine however.
2. I have not tested manual exposure yet. Will report back later if no one else does it.
3. There doesn't seem to be any problem while saving RAW files using Camera2 API. Opened it in Ubuntu's image viewer and the image is the same as it's JPEG counterpart (without the flash)
Manual exposure settings work fine. I increased the ISO and exposure time gradually using Open Camera. It let in more light and captured the image without any issues
mdwh said:
* It seems a lot of devices have problems with flash and Camera2 (either flash doesn't fire, or misfires so pictures come out under or overexposed). I finally managed to get Open Camera flash working on my Nexus 6, but no luck on a Samsung S7 (precapture doesn't seem to trigger). How does the OnePlus Three do with Camera2 and third party apps?
* I see some reports that manual exposure times don't work (e.g., http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/help/camera2-api-broken-oxygenos-3-1-2-t3400886 ), though they mostly refer to the "more than one second" times (which most Android devices don't even offer). I'm less bothered about that, but does manual exposure time (and ISO) work at all (even for less than one second) in Camera2 API on the OnePlus Three?
* Around a year ago I see lots of reports that RAW didn't work on the One Plus devices (either not at all, or pictures were wrong). Supposedly this was fixed, but can anyone confirm that this is working properly on the OnePlus Three?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a OP3 and a bunch of camera apps. The flash is overexposing with Open Camera, but in e.g. Footej (which I believe also uses Camera API v2) the image is exposed similarly to the built-in camera app.
Changing ISO manually seems to work as expected.
RAW files that I've tested from the stock app in Lightroom appear fine.
Let me know if you want me to test something else (PM or email works too).
The biggest challenges I have with Open Camera is that the manual focus (at least in video mode) is somewhat jumpy and not as smooth as e.g. Cinema 4K when you drag the slider, so it is only useable when you're not recording, and then it lacks focus assist (zooming in 2x or 4x automatically when you adjust focus). And then, of course touch focus is also broken (it always focuses at the center) when using APIv2.
Oh, and I'm on the mainly release (3.2.6 atm).
Thanks for both your replies!
Regarding flash and Camera2 API, the newly released Open Camera v1.34 has an option under Settings/Photo settings/"Use alternative flash method". Does that work any better? (Interesting that you mention Footej, that's also the only other 3rd party camera app that gets flash working with Camera2 API on my Nexus 6 - I think it's also using the "torch method" that my new option enables as a workaround.)
Another question I have please - does HDR in Open Camera work okay? (Note it won't be the same as the stock camera's HDR, as these will be different algorithms - but does it at least seem to work? In theory it should if manual exposure is working, but there may be additional issues with burst mode.)
A shame that touch to focus isn't working (this seems to be a known issue with Camera2 on the OnePlus 3?) I note from http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/how-to/oos-3-5-2-comunity-build-t3461648/post68764646 , comment 329, someone says that touch to focus is fixed in the community build 3.5.2 (they tested Open Camera and Snap Camera HDR), so hopefully this fix will soon be rolled out.
I'll take a look at the jerky manual focus, and focus assist.
Wrt flash: Compared to the built-in camera app and to Footej and with/without the new flash setting enabled, then yes: It works with the work-around enabled. Before enabling it, it overexposes (and has an incorrect color balance), but after enabling it, the photo looks almost identical to the Footej one.
As for HDR, then yes, it also works As you say, it's not identical to the built-in camera app, but there is a difference between a single-capture shot and an HDR one: Shadows are lifted and highlights become somewhat subdued. Comparing an OpenCamera HDR shot to the same scene taken with the built-in camera, I'd say the shadows are similar, but the highlights are less compressed with the default app (i.e. OpenCamera makes the highlights darker, and maybe also darker than need to be).
As for touch focus, then we can hope it will be fixed -- I guess it's a problem with the Camera2 API implementation/driver in OP3.
Thanks for your efforts!
Just to say that I got the OnePlus 3T in the end. It's an excellent device - but I've made a new thread at https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3t/how-to/camera2-bugs-t3569283 which details the outstanding problems that I seem unable to fix (and seem to affect other camera2 apps too).
Interestingly, touch-to-focus works fine to me (even when I first got it when it was on Android 6), possibly this was something that'd already been fixed.
Hi all -- When I purchased a Moto Z late last month, I was excited about the device's performance but blind to the fact that I was going to lose the HDR+ camera mode that I had become so accustomed to with my Nexus 6.
This got me working on some potential solutions -- and after decompiling the Camera NX app posted on chromloop.com, I was able to change some settings that enable full HDR+ photography on the Moto Z. So if any of you are craving being able to take photos with Google's HDR+ mode, here is a modified APK that will allow you to do so: http://www.mediafire.com/file/l8num4lyw05vybt/Camera4-hdrplus.apk
I have been using it for several weeks on my Moto Z, and I can confirm that the HDR+ images come out looking much better than those taken with the stock camera app or even the same modified Camera NX app with HDR+ disabled. It's slightly buggy (low-light images are only occasionally not saved) but a great solution for any Moto Z users afflicted with the Nexus blues. This should also work on other devices with equivalent Camera2 API support; if you are wondering whether it will work, just try it -- if HDR+ images are successfully captured, your device supports the needed API calls.
Can you enable RAW capture and manual control?
Hello, I installed the camera application, but when I go to slow motion mode, App crashes. Any solution?
Will this be continually developed?
Because this is a wonderful addition. Just needs some bug fixes and it'll be seriously golden.
D13H4RD2L1V3 said:
Will this be continually developed?
Because this is a wonderful addition. Just needs some bug fixes and it'll be seriously golden.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid that ongoing development of this app might be challenging, as I'm no expert in modifying decompiled apps, which this is (as the official Nexus/Pixel camera app is closed source). The extent of my modifications, believe it or not, was to return a constant boolean value of "true" for a function that checks whether a device is a Nexus 6P -- so the app enables HDR+ as the app is hard-coded to enable all functions available on Nexus 6P devices. It just happened to be very lucky that HDR+ is supported! -- I'm not so optimistic about being able to enable slow motion video, RAW capture, or manual control, but I will keep those in mind next time I have more time to work on this.
need root? or standard apk install
taphius said:
need root? or standard apk install
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a standard APK install.
elosito said:
Hi all -- When I purchased a Moto Z late last month, I was excited about the device's performance but blind to the fact that I was going to lose the HDR+ camera mode that I had become so accustomed to with my Nexus 6.
This got me working on some potential solutions -- and after decompiling the Camera NX app posted on chromloop.com, I was able to change some settings that enable full HDR+ photography on the Moto Z. So if any of you are craving being able to take photos with Google's HDR+ mode, here is a modified APK that will allow you to do so: http://www.mediafire.com/file/l8num4lyw05vybt/Camera4-hdrplus.apk
I have been using it for several weeks on my Moto Z, and I can confirm that the HDR+ images come out looking much better than those taken with the stock camera app or even the same modified Camera NX app with HDR+ disabled. It's slightly buggy (low-light images are only occasionally not saved) but a great solution for any Moto Z users afflicted with the Nexus blues. This should also work on other devices with equivalent Camera2 API support; if you are wondering whether it will work, just try it -- if HDR+ images are successfully captured, your device supports the needed API calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for this. I see a big difference with HDR+. I've had the Nexus 6P and Pixel, I know how great HDR+ is. It's sad that Google closed source their app.
Let us know if you can enable RAW, because HDR+ takes 3 RAW photos for the composition, so theoretically RAW is supported by the app.
This is awesome! So far with just a little experimenting today with a Force, I can see the difference. I look forward to testing it further.
elosito said:
Hi all -- When I purchased a Moto Z late last month, I was excited about the device's performance but blind to the fact that I was going to lose the HDR+ camera mode that I had become so accustomed to with my Nexus 6.
This got me working on some potential solutions -- and after decompiling the Camera NX app posted on chromloop.com, I was able to change some settings that enable full HDR+ photography on the Moto Z. So if any of you are craving being able to take photos with Google's HDR+ mode, here is a modified APK that will allow you to do so: http://www.mediafire.com/file/l8num4lyw05vybt/Camera4-hdrplus.apk
I have been using it for several weeks on my Moto Z, and I can confirm that the HDR+ images come out looking much better than those taken with the stock camera app or even the same modified Camera NX app with HDR+ disabled. It's slightly buggy (low-light images are only occasionally not saved) but a great solution for any Moto Z users afflicted with the Nexus blues. This should also work on other devices with equivalent Camera2 API support; if you are wondering whether it will work, just try it -- if HDR+ images are successfully captured, your device supports the needed API calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is incredible! How did you figure out how to bypass the checks and actually enabled the hdr+? Google never open sourced this so how were you able to get it to work? Many have tried to get hdr+ but failed.
Today's testing was outside and yielded mixed results. I'll continue to experiment.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Wen trying to install the apk it says there was a problem parsing the apk
I created a little album on Google Photos demonstrating the difference between regular shots, the stock app's HDR mode and HDR+. They are shot in that order but I have put them in the description in order to aid identification. Differences can be subtle but often, they are very dramatic.
If you need to know, my variant is an unlocked standard Moto Z running Android 7.0 that's also rooted. It also has a 1/3" 13MP Sony IMX214 with 1.12-micron pixels and an f/1.8 aperture. Pretty sure the Force will do better since it has a larger sensor at 1/2.4". Regardless, HDR+ makes a significant enough difference that it has become my main camera app. If I still had my Note 7, I'd be drooling right now.
https://goo.gl/photos/bQ1NQzCCMmviGtCs6
Thanks for sharing this. I've done something similar with the Force camera.. It's a mixed bag to me. Often HDR+ did a better job with the sky, but often its shots were too dark to me. I've seen a bigger difference with indoor shots.
Thanks for the sharing. Hope moto can implement HDR+ to its own camera app.
benjamminh said:
Thanks for sharing this. I've done something similar with the Force camera.. It's a mixed bag to me. Often HDR+ did a better job with the sky, but often its shots were too dark to me. I've seen a bigger difference with indoor shots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the 6p and pixel both exhibit the same thing, most of the the time their shots are going to look darker (if you compare them side by side to other phones)
D13H4RD2L1V3 said:
I created a little album on Google Photos demonstrating the difference between regular shots, the stock app's HDR mode and HDR+. They are shot in that order but I have put them in the description in order to aid identification. Differences can be subtle but often, they are very dramatic.
If you need to know, my variant is an unlocked standard Moto Z running Android 7.0 that's also rooted. It also has a 1/3" 13MP Sony IMX214 with 1.12-micron pixels and an f/1.8 aperture. Pretty sure the Force will do better since it has a larger sensor at 1/2.4". Regardless, HDR+ makes a significant enough difference that it has become my main camera app. If I still had my Note 7, I'd be drooling right now.
https://goo.gl/photos/bQ1NQzCCMmviGtCs6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like five of the shots with HDR+ more (two are very significant) 7 with the Moto HDR, and three with the normal mode fwiw.
skullman_247 said:
Wen trying to install the apk it says there was a problem parsing the apk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has to be on Nougat
You know, I wonder if this works with the Hasselblad mod.
I've always thought that the issues with the Hasselblad camera are software-related since the sensor is likely the same one from the 6P. If HDR+ and better processing can save it, color me impressed.
Since we're not getting the update for Nougat I'm thinking of finally unlocking the phone. The main issue for me is the camera quality. I searched the whole forum but I couldn't find any post comparing the quality of the photos of both ROMs. I was wondering if someone could make a comparison post since it would help a lot of people decide whether to unlock or keep the phone locked.
up! I'm also interested
Stock cam quality is far better than other custom roms btw i am on RR-N-v5.8.2 due to battery and performance i moved from stock to RR.
If you want good photos you must stay to stock rom.
Forget the custom roms for photo quality.
first pic is aosp DU 7.1.1 stock camera
second its imperium stock based 6.0 v10 cam.
raptorddd said:
first pic is aosp DU 7.1.1 stock camera
second its imperium stock based 6.0 v10 cam.
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Well Stock seems clearly better. Maybe results can be change with different apps. BTW shooting raw is another option. what s ur raw shooting app?
ndhakara said:
Well Stock seems clearly better. Maybe results can be change with different apps. BTW shooting raw is another option. what s ur raw shooting app?
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yes i zoomed both pics on the cup i could read better on stock clear image.
i use v10 camera stock app.. its here in theme section i beleive.. and freedcam google it for g+ or in playstore has alot of parameters for manual. for raw. for editing snapseed and photoshop express.
Thank's for this thread. Thousands of posts in the thread but no clear statement on this important fact.
Also, the stock camera seems to be able to focus on closer objects than third party cameras using camera API 2. At least with the (excellent) Footej camera app I wasn't able to focus as close in a controlled test.
On cm or lineage use lightroom camera shoot in raw quality problem solved
Thoughts on how (not) to compare image quality especially with third party apps
Preambel:
in this context "stock camera" means whatever LG packaged into the official LG G4 stock roms, in my case Marshmallow. So no V10 backport/sideport or likewise
"third party camera app" refers mostly to me using "ProShot", but in some cases also "FreeDCam"; but is not limited to
third party is simplified an app not from LG; it is mostly available through Play store or via apk sideload. The point is that for comparison it must be available to - and run on - any custom/AOSP based ROM.
honestly I did not yet go to any custom ROM, neither Stock nor AOSP. My 2016 built G4 (H815) didn't boot loop yet and my 2 years warranty is void in a few months. Therefor and because I might have time in late summer I will go from theoretical to practical.
if and when you use automatic modes and respective filter settings of a camera app, you might not be interested in the detail that I am going into. Honestly, that's nothing wrong and maybe a healthy decision!
as I work very often in manual mode and I constantly adjust these settings to get specific results, it is very important to judge in detail, also doing pixel peeping :cyclops:
These are more hypothetical methods for comparison the stock ROM and custom ROM camera performance. It is a subject that bothers me for quite some time. As I stumbled upon this thread I decided to dump methods on how I would - or better will - do the comparison. Please don't be offended because of me ripping apart the previously mentioned methods.
I believe that the methods presented in this thread - to determine quality difference between Stock and Custom/AOSP based ROM - are quite flawed.
Just to analyze the quality it needs most complete EXIF data. Which isn't available in the posted images. (Again, you might be fine by "just looking" at the automatic mode results .) As I use the stock camera app now and then and mainly ProShot I know that these apps differently set Shutterspeed and ISO under same conditions. I guess, which is done by the expectation and goals of the respective developers. So a good comparison would require to set the values manually. Also focus, as far as it can be done precisely (eg. macro and infinite; as I know only "FreeDCam" provides setting it by values in %)
Yes, the basis for comparison should be a raw image. Example: ProShot has an option for noise reduction. It can be set to "NR HQ/LQ/Off". When taking pictures with these settings you (most of the time) can easily distinguished each from the other. Therefor ProShot either uses different and own algorithms, or it can say to Camera2 API (wild guess...) to do more/less noise reduction. Just by this fact, a comparison between the stock camera JPGs and ProShots JPGs isn't enlightening.
Therefor raw/dng files should be better for comparison. BUT there is the next thing: The stock camera saves DNGs with a different bit depth than ProShot. (I just now cannot name a tool to read the bit depth, but you'll find one). Stock camera creates 10bit files where ProShot creates 16bit files (btw, size is about 20MB vs 30MB). I do not know if ProShot just converts the 10bit data and puts it into a 16bit file. But therefor even a comparison between stock and third party RAW/DNG might not be valid, too!!! FreeDCam offers in its "complex" user interface different RAW bitdepths but I never gave it a try.
Btw, I read once (TL;DR) that modern professional cameras "nowadays output 14bit or even 16bit depth" raws. Therefor another wild guess(!) is that the LG G4 truely outputs only 10bit raws - even for ProShot. I got not the slightest idea on how to determine. Do you? Help appreciated!
Not to compare apples and oranges I would rule out in-depth comparison between stock and third party camera apps as the stock app won't be available. As I am already almost only using third party apps even on stock ROM this makes it in the future much easier for me to determine if and how much custom ROMs influence the LG G4 camera and photo quality.
Until now it's theoretical and addresses the methods that I will use myself in the near future. Sorry for making such a fuzz about it. That's all I can offer for now.
Dear owners of an OnePlus 5T and maybe 5 too,
please grant me an answer to a really important question: Is the Camera2-API bug fixed for the OP5T or is it still valid and OnePlus didn't do anything against it?
Please do following:
Download Open Camera > Go to settings > Scroll down > Switch on Camera2-API > Cover the rear camera with your hand > Read the values at the very top of your screen:
• If ISO 799 and 1/16,7 is still here: Nothing was fixed. Please leave a reply.
• If values differ from those values (ISO 799 1/16,7) OnePlus finally fixed the Camera2 API. Please also leave a reply.
Thanks in advance.
MickyFoley said:
Dear owners of an OnePlus 5T and maybe 5 too,
please grant me an answer to a really important question: Is the Camera2-API bug fixed for the OP5T or is it still valid and OnePlus didn't do anything against it?
Please do following:
Download Open Camera > Go to settings > Scroll down > Switch on Camera2-API > Cover the rear camera with your hand > Read the values at the very top of your screen:
• If ISO 799 and 1/16,7 is still here: Nothing was fixed. Please leave a reply.
• If values differ from those values (ISO 799 1/16,7) OnePlus finally fixed the Camera2 API. Please also leave a reply.
Thanks in advance.
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Glad I could help.
ISO 9600 and 1/16,7s
so what does this mean now exactly?!
what are the advantages, what can be accomplished? the Google Cam HDR still doesn't seem to work correctly on the 5t.
@vercetti: The reason why I'm asking it: There are several good, real camera apps out, taking advantage of the Camera2 API. I still have the 3T and OnePlus didn't fix the Camera2 API implementation for us. Neither with Oreo. With the correct implementation (thanks for the confirmation @Wilux), Open Camera, Footej Camera, A Better Camera, etc. will work correctly and a Google Camera port is more likely than with a bugged implementation of the API - like for the 3 and 3T.
OnePlus 5 also shows ISO 9600 and 1/16,7s (latest stock rom)
MickyFoley said:
@vercetti: The reason why I'm asking it: There are several good, real camera apps out, taking advantage of the Camera2 API. I still have the 3T and OnePlus didn't fix the Camera2 API implementation for us. Neither with Oreo. With the correct implementation (thanks for the confirmation @Wilux), Open Camera, Footej Camera, A Better Camera, etc. will work correctly and a Google Camera port is more likely than with a bugged implementation of the API - like for the 3 and 3T.
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This means pictures will be lot better then on original camera app?
Would like to see some comparison from OP5t camera and OpenCamera. I still thinking to buy this great piece of tech, but its all about camera what I am focused about. Google phones not available in my country (officialy), Im getting sick over Samsungs (got them for 3 years now, too much!) as all what is good on Sammies is camera. Want to move from my s7e as there was no good flagship, but OP5t is perfect, if at least have same quality of pictures/videos as its on s7e, even if that means using 3rd party app.
@droidhd: This means, the device is theoretically able to do better images via the correct working Camera2 API. Mostly, images will be bad because of post-processing. And if you shoot RAW, mostly the hardware and the correct implemented API is significant for good photos. Maybe you'll see more grain. Maybe the colors aren't the same like you do with the standard camera app. But I'd say: Yes, they get better with more advanced camera apps.
My list of professional camera apps (No need for social media crap like filters, effects, etc.):
Open Camera: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera (Simply a great piece of software!)
Snap Camera HDR (Beta): https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marginz.snap (Looks like abandoned. Last update 1 year ago)
Manual Camera: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.vipek.camera2
A Better Camera Unlocked: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.almalence.opencam_plus (Looks abandoned, but will get updates from time to time. Unsteady, but alive)
Camera FV-5 (Beta): https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flavionet.android.camera.pro
ProShot: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riseupgames.proshot2
Footej Camera: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.footej.camera
Sadly, only one for video left:
FiLMiC Pro: https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=FiLMiC+Inc. (Please try Evaluator first!)
Cinema FV-5: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flavionet.android.cinema.pro (Seems abandoned. Last update 2 years ago)
The list isn't very long, I know. Feel free to extend it. But please: No filters, no effects, no social media like things. Those are around in thousands and nothing professional in it!
Micky, could you explain to me why it is common knowledge that picture quality is usually best when the stock rom with the stock cam is used compared to any photography app running on custom roms?
I've read in so many threads, posts... that people went back to the stock rom just because pic quality is higher than on custom rom.
is this history when camera2 API works correctly? meaning that images are identical when using open camera on stock vs opencam on custom rom? or would opencam (or any other photo app) still produce images of lesser quality when used on a custom rom?
People went back, because of the abstraction layer and because drivers are still closed source. I'd like to compare it a bit:
If you setup a new computer, you only have standard drivers for each and everything. You can use it, but only if you install the correct drivers, things get to start working like they should. Like your graphics card: Working, but you'll notice some kind of stuttering/tearing when scrolling in your browser on certain websites. If you install the driver for your card: All is smooth, like it should.
So we can say: Drivers in AOSP are more like standard. Not all functions, more workarounds, but working OK. And drivers directly from stock (OEM) will get all functions to work good and smooth (if they're implemented correctly).
But you can see, that it's possible to get great photos out of your device with mods for Google Camera even on AOSP-ROMs. Because this mod brings itself some "magic". So you see: Closed source vs. open source. If we'd have the full code of the drivers: Photos, produced by the standard camera app of every OEM would probably look like crap.
OnePlus once promised to get us at least the camera blobs, but they didn't. They say: "Too hard!". Lie, because they know, that their already scratched images would suffer more than now, because Devs like sultanxda would have kicked their butts out of the universe by producing better photos than the stock camera app.
Thx for the answer Micky, i like the comparison with the computer and missing drivers, you made it much clearer now!
But 2 questions still remain:
1.) Does a 3rd party photo app (like Open Camera or any other one) lead to the exact the same picture quality if installed on a stock rom as compared to being used on a custom rom? Or will a 3rd party app still be better on the stock rom than on a custom rom because of the drivers you explained before?
And 2.) does this whole camera2 API aspect change what you explained about the driver situation? Meaning, that there is no need anymore for the drivers that can only be found in a stock rom because camera2 API gets to use the whole potential of the camera hardware?
Just trying to figure out where the best image quality can be found. The whole thing is too confusing to me, sorry
@vercetti: Sorry for the late reply. Was kinda busy. To answer your questions:
1: Yes and no. Depends. But pictures will probably visualize it a bit better:
HAL1 (LEGACY):
HAL3 (CAMERA2):
A bit more complex explained: https://source.android.com/devices/camera/camera3
2: HAL and driver are bond together. Without a driver, you can't even get HAL1 to work . But yes: A correct working HAL3 implementation will get you to the point of using your full potential of your camera. Again depends on the driver too . Hard to explain, but the more advanced explanation at Google should answer your questions very well.
So I basically read everywhere the phones camera app is even worse than what you get on other phones (hardware is still great though).
What alternatives are there, and do they have full hardware access and raw export for all cameras without compromising on image quality?
So what a basic photo app should do (I can't believe that I have to ask for something basic like this) is that I want to set a shutter speed it supposed to use. Camera app should do the exposure and adjust ISO and aperture (if there).
Then 2nd important thing (usually first but hey, google lowered the low standards even more), settings should be saved, if I get my cam out of the pocket again I don't want to dial in the settings again. Just remember it like every real camera does.
3rd is a dreamland level of feature (also normal on real cameras): setting a base shutter speed to freeze action have the camera compensate with ISO and aperture till it reaches the upper limit and raising the shutter speed at the lower limit so I don't get overexposure but always have a fast shutterspeed to freeze movement.
So are there apps out there that do this and do they get full sensor access?
It's actually more complicated than just "hardware is great, software is crap". A lot of the technology that makes Pixels one of the best point and shoot cameras on smartphones, is actually in the google camera app (utilizing the Camera2 API). Google has recently developed a new CameraX API. Its first release was about a week ago and has a long way to go.
Unfortunately, Google has removed some of the manual settings over the years, and has moved towards intelligent processing techniques that are done automatically. For example, manual HDR modes have been removed in favor of the auto-processing used in the app.
Unless somebody develops a new app, utilizing the CameraX library extensions, you won't be finding these things you've asked for. Pixels don't have a manual mode like other phones (such has Samsung for example).
There is a new camera app that the devs behind GraphenOS have created, using the new CameraX API. Someone posted information about it recently. There's also a modified gcam mod specifically for Pixels, made by team MWP. It has some features such ISO, focus and exposure sliders (the non-beta version has more features so download that version).
The official google camera app shoots in RAW format. OpenCamera (by Mark Harman) is also a favorite for many enthusiasts. Last week a user forked it to add a few options for the Pixel 6.
So you have 3 or 4 options listed above, plus the different camera apps on the play store (such as Procam X and Manual Camera). But over the years, it seems that the official google camera app, results in the best quality (but we can now include the MWP gcam mod since it has been modified with most recent google camera versions and works with the Pixel 6/6Pro without any bugs).
Alekos said:
Unfortunately, Google has removed some of the manual settings over the years, and has moved towards intelligent processing techniques that are done automatically. For example, manual HDR modes have been removed in favor of the auto-processing used in the app.
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An alarming trend, smartphone camera software has never been the most useful and not its getting even worse.
No amount of AI magic is going to recognize that a now still standing person is going to do something fast the next second that I would like to capture with a shutter speed of 1/1000. Also not going to anticipate the cat jumping and me wanting to get that unblurred.
I don't care about AI processing, photo editing has nothing to do with a camera software in my opinion and should happen after the shot was taken and not during. I'm old, I do my own edits. But I would like to have the full quality sensor readout in a DNG file and no compromises on image quality.
nurps said:
An alarming trend, smartphone cameras have never been the most useful and not its getting even worse.
No amount of AI magic is going to recognize that a now still standing person is going to do something fast the next second that I would like to capture with a shutter speed of 1/1000. Also not going to anticipate the cat jumping and me wanting to get that unblurred.
I don't care about AI processing, photo editing has nothing to do with a camera software in my opinion and should happen after the shot was taken and not during. I'm old, I do my own edits. But I would like to have the full quality sensor readout in a DNG file and no compromises on image quality.
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Similar as you, I am 65 and shooting with Canon DSLR for longer than I can remember, I always want to control everything myself. I am now shooting with an app called "ProShot" on the P6P which you can get for I think $5 from the Play Store. It almost worked like a DSLR or mirrorless. I don't care about the AI, I shoot in raw and edit all the photos in Photoshop after moving them to my computer. I think you can download it as a free trial before you made a decision.
Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.
nurps said:
Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.
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For raws, I don't see any difference. Jpeg is different story due to Google's AI. Anyway, download it and give a try and see the results if they are your liking.
I'm still on the level what phone to buy for best camera experience, so I don't own it yet.
nurps said:
I'm still on the level what phone to buy for best camera experience, so I don't own it yet.
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I see! If just based camera hardware, you have a lot choices, Xiaomi, Samsung perhaps better than the pixel. I don't shoot with phone that much. I came from Samsung Galaxy 21 Ultra to the P6P, it is because I need to root the phone to enable I can use call recorder.
IP68 is must, Samsung S22U raws look really awful though, not much detail there, oversharpeing artifacts at raw level.
Wedding photographer here and personally i find it a breath of fresh air to just point and shoot and get something without resorting to raw and messing about in an editing package, swings and roundabouts i guess.
On a side note the aperture of the lenses on a smartphone are that wide you tend to get really fast shutter speeds anyway even with pretty mediocre light, i took a photo the other day, it was a bright'ish day with about 50% cloud and the shutter speed was 1/5814 at f2.2 using the wide angle lens.
nurps said:
Have you noticed any quality differences between stock and ProShot raws on any of the 3 cameras? I remember ProShot from my S8 days.
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I use exclusively ProShot when shooting RAW. RAW files from the Google camera app miss information. That's why the size of its DNG files are smaller (about half) and vary from shot to shot. With RAW this should not be the case. However, ProShot only supports RAW for the default back lens like any other 3rd party app I am aware of. I hope that Google enables 3rd party access to the other 2 back lenses for RAW in the future.
In fact, my default app is now ProShot. The dev is very responsive and addressed several issues I brought up with him.
Thing is If you are going to shoot raw and disown the Google camera app then there is not much point in owning a pixel really. The whole point of a Pixel from a photography point of view is Googles computational photography, without that the camera hardware is pretty average and surpassed by a number of other phone manufacturers.
stbxxl said:
I use exclusively ProShot when shooting RAW. RAW files from the Google camera app miss information. That's why the size of its DNG files are smaller (about half) and vary from shot to shot. With RAW this should not be the case. However, ProShot only supports RAW for the default back lens like any other 3rd party app I am aware of. I hope that Google enables 3rd party access to the other 2 back lenses for RAW in the future.
In fact, my default app is now ProShot. The dev is very responsive and addressed several issues I brought up with him.
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Shooting Raw on Google's camera app is giving you compressed raw files, which when compared to uncompressed raw there's virtually no difference. Unless you mess up the exposure by like 5 stops, you ain't gaining anything more by shooting Raw with a seperate app.... especially on a phone.
Bwyan Benton said:
Shooting Raw on Google's camera app is giving you compressed raw files, which when compared to uncompressed raw there's virtually no difference. Unless you mess up the exposure by like 5 stops, you ain't gaining anything more by shooting Raw with a seperate app.... especially on a phone.
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I have found that the DNG files produced with Google's camera app are missing certain metadata. For example GPS location etc. The DNG file from ProShot has this info. While this is not important to everybody, it is important to me.
Additionally I prefer using ProShot since it has more manual controls, offers a histogram and allows setting separate exposure and focus points. Even when "only" shooting in JPG I find the pictures more pleasing than the ones from Google's camera app which tend to be over processed to some extend as far as I am concerned.
stbxxl said:
I have found that the DNG files produced with Google's camera app are missing certain metadata. For example GPS location etc. The DNG file from ProShot has this info. While this is not important to everybody, it is important to me.
Additionally I prefer using ProShot since it has more manual controls, offers a histogram and allows setting separate exposure and focus points. Even when "only" shooting in JPG I find the pictures more pleasing than the ones from Google's camera app which tend to be over processed to some extend as far as I am concerned.
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When I take photos with my 6 pro and edit the RAW files in Lightroom, my GPS location is still attached after I export the image. Perhaps you should check the settings in Lightroom (if that's what you use) when exporting the photo and see if it's off. I believe by default it is off. I used proshot a lot back in the day, but now I find it totally incomparable to google camera, not to mention buggy AF. But to each their own.
Bwyan Benton said:
When I take photos with my 6 pro and edit the RAW files in Lightroom, my GPS location is still attached after I export the image. Perhaps you should check the settings in Lightroom (if that's what you use) when exporting the photo and see if it's off. I believe by default it is off. I used proshot a lot back in the day, but now I find it totally incomparable to google camera, not to mention buggy AF. But to each their own.
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In my experience, the GPS location is only embedded in the JPG file that comes with the DNG file when using Google's camera app. I checked with several programs including ACDSee Ultimate (I switched from Lightroom years ago because of its better editing tools and no annual subscription). Btw, Google Photos also doesn't show the location of the DNG file but does for the JPG file.
stbxxl said:
In my experience, the GPS location is only embedded in the JPG file that comes with the DNG file when using Google's camera app. I checked with several programs including ACDSee Ultimate (I switched from Lightroom years ago because of its better editing tools and no annual subscription). Btw, Google Photos also doesn't show the location of the DNG file but does for the JPG file.
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Interesting, I'm looking at photos I took just yesterday, dngs and they have the location info attached in Google photos. As well as photos I took a few days ago.
Bwyan Benton said:
Interesting, I'm looking at photos I took just yesterday, dngs and they have the location info attached in Google photos. As well as photos I took a few days ago.
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Interesting indeed. I don't know what's different with my 6 Pro. I have never gotten location info for DNG files. When I use the 19 mm lens for RAW photos (not supported by 3rd party apps) I also copy the JPG file into ACDSee Ultimate and copy and paste its metadata into the DNG file. Not a big deal, but why is this necessary (at least for my setup)?
stbxxl said:
Interesting indeed. I don't know what's different with my 6 Pro. I have never gotten location info for DNG files. When I use the 19 mm lens for RAW photos (not supported by 3rd party apps) I also copy the JPG file into ACDSee Ultimate and copy and paste its metadata into the DNG file. Not a big deal, but why is this necessary (at least for my setup)?
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I just went back to the beginning of Feb looking through photos, not all of them were dngs, but I know which ones were, and they all have my location info attached. I like to have that as well as you, so know you have me double checking and making sure lol. But for me it's all there.
I've always used the google camera app when I'm in a hurry. Otherwise, I use
Camera FV-5