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Questions answered in the below quotes!
cmstlist said:
What it comes down to is, anyone smart enough to know how the GNex works can beat these sorts of things. You'll catch the dumb criminals but few others. Even if you could theoretically put a lock on CWM, the device can be wiped from the bootloader level and made to work. And chances are, if you have CWM loaded you already have an unlocked bootloader. Which means if you put a password on CWM, the thief could just reflash a clean CWM over top of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
martonikaj said:
Exactly. The only criminal getting caught here is an extremely dumb one. If you're stealing phones you know to go in and uninstall Lookout or factory reset the device... then you wont be able to get the device back either way. Any criminal "smart" enough to use CWM to wipe the phone will use one of the many other ways to make it untraceable.
As someone else said, call the carrier and blacklist the SIM and IMEI.
And if you want your phone to be the most secure, use a PIN lockscreen, fully encrypt the device, and keep it stock with a locked bootloader. And above all... keep your phone in your sight/possession whenever in public. All basic stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_Dennis_ said:
The anti-theft stuff is not so much anti-theft of the phone as anti-theft of you personal information. Think of it like this, you lose your device, criminal takes your information and uses your stored bank account information to steal your money, your stored address and name to get a new driver's license, and new license to get new credit card to ruin your credit score, along with making $500 on selling your phone.
Or he steals your phone, you remote wipe and blacklist iemi, he makes $200 selling phone for parts.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bwcorvus said:
They can wipe the phone in fastboot also...so this would stop nothing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
================================================================================================================
So I got Avast with it's Anti-Theft protection baked into the ROM, but of course if my phone gets lost, it doesn't matter if i remote lock it or wipe it. If the thief is smart enough, they can just reboot into CWM and wipe data/dalvik/cache and flash a new rom onto it and resell the phone as "new". (And trust me, they are in 9/10 cases that smart)
So I was wondering, is there any way to put a password onto CWM? Like a 4 digit pin or similar. I realize it would be hard to do given the limited controls (vol up, down, power), but does the Touch Recovery enable this?
That way it would be a good safeguard for losing your phone as no one without access can wipe the ROM and render your theft-protection useless within seconds..
Thanks
Isn't that what you want them to do? Even if they're not sophisticated enough to wipe it you're just going to wipe it yourself considering the chances of getting it back are slim to none.
Either way, the device gets wiped.
EddieN said:
So I got Avast with it's Anti-Theft protection baked into the ROM, but of course if my phone gets lost, it doesn't matter if i remote lock it or wipe it. If the thief is smart enough, they can just reboot into CWM and wipe data/dalvik/cache and flash a new rom onto it and resell the phone as "new". (And trust me, they are in 9/10 cases that smart)
So I was wondering, is there any way to put a password onto CWM? Like a 4 digit pin or similar. I realize it would be hard to do given the limited controls (vol up, down, power), but does the Touch Recovery enable this?
That way it would be a good safeguard for losing your phone as no one without access can wipe the ROM and render your theft-protection useless within seconds..
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, I have wondered this a few times too. I mean, hopefully if you lose your phone then you'll be able to find it before any of this stuff happens...but not necessarily. If the thief turns your phone off/battery pulls then they effectively win! I suppose the benefit of a non-removable battery is that, if you have a lockscreen password, then the thief should find it hard to even power off your device!
I think a lock on CWM should be implemented...but who wants to forget their password to CWM and never be able access their device again? Not me!
---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------
martonikaj said:
Isn't that what you want them to do? Even if they're not sophisticated enough to wipe it you're just going to wipe it yourself considering the chances of getting it back are slim to none.
Either way, the device gets wiped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true...didn't think of that. Still though...I'd prefer my phone back!
Unlocking the bootloader would wipe the phone, and afaik there is no way to prevent that. Also, it isn't going to stop your phone from getting stolen...
Well sure, if my phone gets stolen it gets stolen. I don't have it anymore. But Avasts Anti-Theft enables you to send SMS commands to lock/wipe the phone, turn on/off GPS, disable any user interaction except from SMS messages from TRUSTED numbers etc. So even if I don't have the phone, BUT I have a password protected CWM, the phone will be useless as they cant flash a new ROM or have access to the OS/internal SD (thanks to disabling USB when the phone is flagged as lost) so it's just a paperweight with no resell value no matter what sim or battery they insert. It will be locked.
As long as they have the phone turned off, sure, I can't access it's location and whatnot. But at the same time they cant do anything with the phone either. I also doubt they'd disassemble the phone and take the time to somehow hardware flash the ROM chip to force a flash.
There have been cases in my country where people have gotten back their ipads/iphones/phones that have their respective "find my phone" if it gets lost/stolen etc.. Manufacturers don't implement functions like this for nothing, and law enforcement is usually helpful in cases like this if the GPS location and IMEI number are provided, as well as proof of ownership (which is displayed on the lock-screen of Anti-Theft as well as the IMEI).
It just seems contradicting having an Anti-Theft option when CWM is a few button presses away from wiping the phone and everything along with it, totally crippling anti-theft software.
Locking the bootloader every time I flash a rom (just in case i go out that one night and get robbed etc.) is a pain, and even if they unlock the bootloader everything is wiped anyway (including Anti-Theft).
The only reasonable solution is to have a password protected CWM. But of course, it's a HUGE risk if you forget your password to it.
and afaik by wiping through SMS, it only wipes the personal data (pictures, sms, anything personal) but keeps the rom intact as not to break the Anti-Theft. It would be really stupid if you remote wiped and the entire rom was wiped? Given that the thief isn't as smart as the regular XDA-crawler they'd need to flash a custom rom for it to even boot after that. But that's another story. Point being that remote wipe doesn't wipe the rom. Only all settings/personal data so a thief cant access private info.
imo if my phone got lost/stolen i'd try to (before it would happen) safeguard myself as much as I could to maybe at least have a small chance of getting it back. You never know.
Completely unnecessary, just call your carrier and report your phone lost/stolen and have them blacklist the IMEI number, done.
In any case, I can't even see a reason for this sort of childishness. If you lost your phone, bad on you, take better care of your things; if you had your phone stolen because you weren't paying attention to where it was, again, bad on you, take better care of your things; if you were threatened and mugged at knife/gunpoint, give the damn phone up and be happy, your life is worth more than any stupid phone, **** happens and then you die.
ZeroBarrier said:
Completely unnecessary, just call your carrier and report your phone lost/stolen and have them blacklist the IMEI number, done.
In any case, I can't even see a reason for this sort of childishness. If you lost your phone, bad on you, take better care of your things; if you had your phone stolen because you weren't paying attention to where it was, again, bad on you, take better care of your things; if you were threatened and mugged at knife/gunpoint, give the damn phone up and be happy, your life is worth more than any stupid phone, **** happens and then you die.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no reason to be rude and condescending. A phone can be lost/stolen no matter how careful you are. Of course your life is incomparable in value to a stupid phone, but that's not what this thread is about so no reason to go OT.
Back OT though, I still believe a password system should be looked in to. What if this wasn't about your phone being stolen, what if someone is just screwing with your phone? Why DO we have passwords? We have them to keep intruders at bay for things we don't want them to have access to. I wouldn't want anyone to be able to access CWM and wipe my phone.
It just seems strange how such a powerful tool can render any lockscreen/pin unlock/pattern unlock useless by just wiping the phone and reflashing a rom (keeping personal data such as pictures etc.) and gaining access to them anyway. It renders all these passwords/lockscreens etc. useless.
EddieN said:
I wouldn't want anyone to be able to access CWM and wipe my phone.
It just seems strange how such a powerful tool can render any lockscreen/pin unlock/pattern unlock useless by just wiping the phone and reflashing a rom (keeping personal data such as pictures etc.) and gaining access to them anyway. It renders all these passwords/lockscreens etc. useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does the stock recovery. Doesn't seem as if anyone is complaining to Samsung or Google asking them for password protection on stock recoveries.
In the end, it's a portable communications device designed to be in your possession at all times, and if it is in your possession at all times, then there isn't any need to worry about a 3rd party wiping your phone randomly.
I am also hoping for password on the recovery.
What it comes down to is, anyone smart enough to know how the GNex works can beat these sorts of things. You'll catch the dumb criminals but few others. Even if you could theoretically put a lock on CWM, the device can be wiped from the bootloader level and made to work. And chances are, if you have CWM loaded you already have an unlocked bootloader. Which means if you put a password on CWM, the thief could just reflash a clean CWM over top of it.
cmstlist said:
What it comes down to is, anyone smart enough to know how the GNex works can beat these sorts of things. You'll catch the dumb criminals but few others. Even if you could theoretically put a lock on CWM, the device can be wiped from the bootloader level and made to work. And chances are, if you have CWM loaded you already have an unlocked bootloader. Which means if you put a password on CWM, the thief could just reflash a clean CWM over top of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. The only criminal getting caught here is an extremely dumb one. If you're stealing phones you know to go in and uninstall Lookout or factory reset the device... then you wont be able to get the device back either way. Any criminal "smart" enough to use CWM to wipe the phone will use one of the many other ways to make it untraceable.
As someone else said, call the carrier and blacklist the SIM and IMEI.
And if you want your phone to be the most secure, use a PIN lockscreen, fully encrypt the device, and keep it stock with a locked bootloader. And above all... keep your phone in your sight/possession whenever in public. All basic stuff.
EddieN said:
So I got Avast with it's Anti-Theft protection baked into the ROM, but of course if my phone gets lost, it doesn't matter if i remote lock it or wipe it. If the thief is smart enough, they can just reboot into CWM and wipe data/dalvik/cache and flash a new rom onto it and resell the phone as "new". (And trust me, they are in 9/10 cases that smart)
So I was wondering, is there any way to put a password onto CWM? Like a 4 digit pin or similar. I realize it would be hard to do given the limited controls (vol up, down, power), but does the Touch Recovery enable this?
That way it would be a good safeguard for losing your phone as no one without access can wipe the ROM and render your theft-protection useless within seconds..
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The anti-theft stuff is not so much anti-theft of the phone as anti-theft of you personal information. Think of it like this, you lose your device, criminal takes your information and uses your stored bank account information to steal your money, your stored address and name to get a new driver's license, and new license to get new credit card to ruin your credit score, along with making $500 on selling your phone.
Or he steals your phone, you remote wipe and blacklist iemi, he makes $200 selling phone for parts.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
They can wipe the phone in fastboot also...so this would stop nothing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
bwcorvus said:
They can wipe the phone in fastboot also...so this would stop nothing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
You can wipe (or obtain all the data stored into io) a galaxy nexus directly from the bootloader... Even before loading the recovery...
If I was in you i would care more about stolen data/photos and so on... (ics support full system encryption but clockwork mod does not iirc)
sooooo?
So back to the original question Any1 no of a hack that password protects recovery? Its a great idea and for those that don't think so for whatever reason wouldn't have to use it .
drawde40599 said:
So back to the original question Any1 no of a hack that password protects recovery? Its a great idea and for those that don't think so for whatever reason wouldn't have to use it .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you not read the thread? Its a waste of time to do this...
I guess it's a conundrum for us hacky types - unlocked bootloader lets us do all sorts of stuff, and gives us an escape hatch from unstable ROMs without losing our data. But it also lets anyone else get full access.
Now what would be nice is if the unlocked bootloader could be configured with a password. So it's effectively locked for everyone else unless they wipe.
cmstlist said:
I guess it's a conundrum for us hacky types - unlocked bootloader lets us do all sorts of stuff, and gives us an escape hatch from unstable ROMs without losing our data. But it also lets anyone else get full access.
Now what would be nice is if the unlocked bootloader could be configured with a password. So it's effectively locked for everyone else unless they wipe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if you have a locked bootloader, all they have to do is type Fastboot oem unlock, and your data is wiped. With the phone we have, there is NOTHING you can do to stop someone from wiping it. If we could put a password before that, this would be the only safeguard (like a bios lock on a computer).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
bwcorvus said:
Even if you have a locked bootloader, all they have to do is type Fastboot oem unlock, and your data is wiped. With the phone we have, there is NOTHING you can do to stop someone from wiping it. If we could put a password before that, this would be the only safeguard (like a bios lock on a computer).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, there's the separate questions of data integrity vs. tracking software integrity.
Most Androids, with stock recovery, are capable of being wiped too without booting into the OS at all.
cmstlist said:
What it comes down to is, anyone smart enough to know how the GNex works can beat these sorts of things. You'll catch the dumb criminals but few others. Even if you could theoretically put a lock on CWM, the device can be wiped from the bootloader level and made to work. And chances are, if you have CWM loaded you already have an unlocked bootloader. Which means if you put a password on CWM, the thief could just reflash a clean CWM over top of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
martonikaj said:
Exactly. The only criminal getting caught here is an extremely dumb one. If you're stealing phones you know to go in and uninstall Lookout or factory reset the device... then you wont be able to get the device back either way. Any criminal "smart" enough to use CWM to wipe the phone will use one of the many other ways to make it untraceable.
As someone else said, call the carrier and blacklist the SIM and IMEI.
And if you want your phone to be the most secure, use a PIN lockscreen, fully encrypt the device, and keep it stock with a locked bootloader. And above all... keep your phone in your sight/possession whenever in public. All basic stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_Dennis_ said:
The anti-theft stuff is not so much anti-theft of the phone as anti-theft of you personal information. Think of it like this, you lose your device, criminal takes your information and uses your stored bank account information to steal your money, your stored address and name to get a new driver's license, and new license to get new credit card to ruin your credit score, along with making $500 on selling your phone.
Or he steals your phone, you remote wipe and blacklist iemi, he makes $200 selling phone for parts.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bwcorvus said:
They can wipe the phone in fastboot also...so this would stop nothing.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well thanks for the great insight then! I didn't know fully that you could, still, even with a hypothesized passworded CWM, gain access and flash a new recovery before even getting into recovery (i haven't stumbled upon a situation like this yet)
So really there is no way to fully PROTECT the device with a password per se, unless you, like someone said, keep it fully stock with the bootloader locked. That way the device will be wiped anyway. Or have some kind of a BIOS-lock.
The thread was made to merely speculate if a password for CWM was feasible, and if it was, if it would do any good. Since we have come to the conclusion that it is not (any good at least), the best thing to do is to simply encrypt the phone, put a lockscreen pin/pattern or something like it and take care of the phone (of course). If it gets stolen, it does. Call the carrier and flag the IMEI. I know that already, but it would be a nice consolidation to somehow have some hope of getting the device back.
Needless to say you probably never will. So be careful guys!
Thanks for the thread and the knowledgeable inputs, there were apparently a few more peeps wondering about the same thing as I so I hope it helped them
If you are like me, you should have all your favorite apps, documents, pictures etc. stored right on your phone that basically gives a full picture of who you are as an individual. You also have been pretty satisfied with the pattern, pin number, password or face unlock or all of these together as a security you have in place to prevent unauthorized access. But here is something that happened by accident that led me down this thought process. While trying to yank out the phone from my pocket while driving (which when you are getting a phone call especially becomes the most impossible task), I noticed that the phone "Power Down", "Restart", "Airplane Mode" pop up was on. This is on top of my regular swipe to unlock with pin number lock screen. This made me curious and noticed that the back button will work to close this pop up and also the power button works to reactivate this pop up. I hope everyone is with me till here. What surprised me was that the phone will actually turn off or restart from this point without the need for an unlock code. This means anyone with rooting and backup knowledge can steal my phone, restart my phone into recovery and wipe it to make the phone their own or just create a backup (CWM) and through that access my personal information. I know that photos and documents stored on the external card is open unless encrypted. But I hoped the internal data would be secure.
What do you guys think about this? Is there any app that would prevent access to the phone while locked via hard keys? What do you do to keep your information safe?
TL;DR version
If phone is stolen and person has knowledge of android they can factory reset your phone, even if you have a password setup. If they enter recovery they can wipe data and factory reset your phone and now it is usable for them.
My theory if you have your phone rooted I wish there was a way to lock the recovery with a password. Unfortunately ODIN will always be available able to get back to stock. Cerberus is a great app to have full control of phone if stolen FYI
DesperateScorpion151 said:
What do you guys think about this? Is there any app that would prevent access to the phone while locked via hard keys? What do you do to keep your information safe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As soon as I realize it is missing I would activate the wipe feature in this software.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lookout&hl=en
If I have your phone in my possession I guarantee I can hack it regardless of any security measure you make take, so the best solution is to be able to wipe it remotely.
technically even a remote wipe is not enough if the thief is knowledgeable. I accidentally wiped flashing in Odin with nand erase checkd and recovered everything that was on it using this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1994705 so your never completely safe
Exactly my point like everyone else confirms it here. We have advanced so much to a point that even a 9 year old (not that 9 is too young to know computer basics) who is familiar with basics on rooting after reading through forums after forums can get away with stealing a smart phone now a days. At this point the only way I could think of protecting my data (first priority) and then track my phone is if the tracker is incorporated into the boot loader or recovery itself on top of what ever software you have installed in the OS. So if the thief tries to unlock my phone after a restart, the installed software should take care of the rest but If he/she is smart enough to go via boot loader or recovery then the incorporated tracker can do its thing. Anything of that sort exists?
Did you forget you could just pull the battery to get into recovery?
Why do you need to pull the battery?
Aerowinder said:
Why do you need to pull the battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't, but its easier than going through all of the steps OP posted.
I really doubt my data is worth anything. Pictures of my cats aren't exactly hot commodities and I don't store anything on my phone that I wouldn't publicly reveal, anyway.
I wouldn't be worried about my worthless information, just annoyed I was dumb enough to let it get stolen. Yeah, I know that basically anyone with half a brain can wipe a phone and re-sell it - it always amazes me when people think that thieves aren't smart enough to do that.
I'm cynical. Saves a lot of worry since I just expect the worst, I guess.
They get into your email where it may be more info to compromise.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
I would be less worried about the minute possibility of a phone thief targeting your personal information than I would be about your personal data being mined from your phone by numerous applications.
Bottom line is, if you use Google or Facebook, you personal information is already in the hands of giant corporations who will never be held accountable for the theft of your personal info.
Take Facebook for example - within the app, the only time it should ever ping your location is if you are using FB chat and have the location setting enabled. However, even when you disable location within FB chat, every single time you open Facebook it uses your GPS to get your location. Every time.
In addition, although you are unable to see it in action because there is no notification icon for it, I would bet a million bucks it's also pulling your network location if your GPS is off.
Facebook is constantly working in the background - even if you never opened it.
Google? I won't even begin to try and explain the amount of data they are collecting from you. As is T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, ATT, etc. every single second that your phone is on with data enabled.
Should we be concerned with some random thief who knows the ins and outs of Android pulling your data? Sure, we should think about it. But the reality is, if you own a smart phone your information is already out there in the hands of companies who will use it to any end they can in order to turn a profit. Period.
ButWhile I see the pros and cons of different parts involved in using social networks and so forth, one thing we can (at least for now) be certain of is that they won't use your credit card information etc. to make illegal purchases and so forth. I know of a person who routinely used the credit card app to check balance, pay bill etc. and next thing he was getting phone calls to see if the purchases made at a casino in Spain are OK?! This is without ever losing the phone!!. So, it could be worse in the case of phone loss. Sure, personal data, pictures and even email to some extent is not as bothersome to me as identity theft. Thank to some anti-fraud features of the banks etc. one can deny and simply not be associated with that activity (of course in legitamate cases). My friend ended up getting another card with different number and they closed the online banking account. He had to re-register all over with another id. So, it can be a big hassle. I heard of cases where people had to hire lawyers and run around courts to prove their innocence due to identity theft. Of course if you keep a picture of your driving licence on the phone, you are really asking for it so... (trust me, one girl was doing this because she didn't want to carry her purse/wallet on night outs)
Having said that, I am always worried if the roms we download here in XDA have trojans or backdoors built into kernels and system files... I know that it is like doubting even the good devs but how do we know for sure? Unless you are really an in-depth expert and figure out all the details such as processes and ports that are open and so forth, how do you really know? The phone's data icons keep pinging back and forth every now and then and at times I wonder what's being sent and what is it receiving... just sync'ing contacts...or...??
Call me paranoid but, after what happened to my friend, and similar stories, I am a bit skeptical about the security and integrity of the ROMs in the first place... Now, mostly I download and try different roms and settle on one that suits my preferences. I use the phone for calls as well as to make general tasks easier in many aspects except financial transactions. In short, I don't trust my smart phones.
For those of you wondering what Google is tracking, (not by any means the only place to look) login to your gmail account and look around different settings. You'll see web history, phone data to name a few..
Hi all,
bit of an emergency here. I am running rooted Chroma rom, just went into twrp to backup my EPS, and upon reboot it is saying I need to enter my password. I have done this several times. Now, it keeps saying the password is incorrect, and after the 5th time, there is no option to reset it! Help please!! Don't feel like wiping my phone again...
greves1 said:
Hi all,
bit of an emergency here. I am running rooted Chroma rom, just went into twrp to backup my EPS, and upon reboot it is saying I need to enter my password. I have done this several times. Now, it keeps saying the password is incorrect, and after the 5th time, there is no option to reset it! Help please!! Don't feel like wiping my phone again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can search that but might as wipe in the meantime. Get yourself a working phone.
bobby janow said:
You can search that but might as wipe in the meantime. Get yourself a working phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply. Going through the post-wipe setup now. Grrrr. It's just that I entered the password a bunch of times, and it always worked. Just on reboot from recovery it didnt. Now I'm afraid to go back into twrp...
Anyone know if this could be caused by some android security feature that doesnt like systemless root, xposed, etc.
greves1 said:
Hi all,
bit of an emergency here. I am running rooted Chroma rom, just went into twrp to backup my EPS, and upon reboot it is saying I need to enter my password. I have done this several times. Now, it keeps saying the password is incorrect, and after the 5th time, there is no option to reset it! Help please!! Don't feel like wiping my phone again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume this is the same problem as the Nexus 6P. You need to disable the security before making a TWRP backup. The fix is:
After restoring the nandroid, boot into twrp and then delete /data/sytem/locksettings.db. If that doesn't fix it, delete the locksettings.db-shm and locksettings.db-wal in the same location. If that doesn't fix it either, delete gatekeeper.password.key and gatekeeper.pattern.key in the same location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KennyG123 said:
I assume this is the same problem as the Nexus 6P. You need to disable the security before making a TWRP backup. The fix is:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this fix. I'll keep it in mind next time. My broader question is now about security in general, since there seems to be a way to remove security from our roms?? For example, if someone got ahold of your phone, couldnt they just follow these steps to get in? Is this just a side-effect of unlocking the phone that is unavoidable? If I'm missing something about how to maintain security in the unlocked/rooted environment, please let me know. I've looked around but I haven't found any great guides for best practices regarding nandroids/security, etc. Thanks all!
greves1 said:
Thanks for this fix. I'll keep it in mind next time. My broader question is now about security in general, since there seems to be a way to remove security from our roms?? For example, if someone got ahold of your phone, couldnt they just follow these steps to get in? Is this just a side-effect of unlocking the phone that is unavoidable? If I'm missing something about how to maintain security in the unlocked/rooted environment, please let me know. I've looked around but I haven't found any great guides for best practices regarding nandroids/security, etc. Thanks all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting is in itself the biggest security risk. This is why carriers are working with manufacturers to make many phones fully locked and unrootable. Our main security expert Jcase does not use a rooted phone. He recommends if you need to root, go ahead, make the changes you want, then quickly unroot. So sure, if someone stole your phone they could follow that procedure to get into it. They could also just force a fresh stock version on it to wipe everything. Security and locks are meant to keep out honest people and slow down the dishonest.
KennyG123 said:
Rooting is in itself the biggest security risk. This is why carriers are working with manufacturers to make many phones fully locked and unrootable. Our main security expert Jcase does not use a rooted phone. He recommends if you need to root, go ahead, make the changes you want, then quickly unroot. So sure, if someone stole your phone they could follow that procedure to get into it. They could also just force a fresh stock version on it to wipe everything. Security and locks are meant to keep out honest people and slow down the dishonest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just so I'm clear, the only thing keeping a stock phone safe is that when its locked, it can't be unlocked/rooted because the option to allow oem unlocking/adb connections are not (or should not be) checked in the developer options, is that correct? From what you're saying, as long as those two boxes are checked, there is essentially nothing stopping someone from wiping out your password and getting into your device. I'd love to run unrooted, but would adaway still have an effect? I'm thinking that the definitions are already applied, so maybe it would work unrooted. But cf.lumen, which I love and can't find the same functionality anywhere else, seems to always "enable interactive shell" on boot. Would this work unrooted? But again, as long so you're doing all this stuff, you can't lock your bootloader again, can you? Or can you lock it on a stock rom with the kind of modifications I'm talking about. I read that locking bootloader while having a custom rom loaded can cause a brick, although I'm not quite sure why. Couldn't you just always get into fastboot to unlock it again?
greves1 said:
Just so I'm clear, the only thing keeping a stock phone safe is that when its locked, it can't be unlocked/rooted because the option to allow oem unlocking/adb connections are not (or should not be) checked in the developer options, is that correct? From what you're saying, as long as those two boxes are checked, there is essentially nothing stopping someone from wiping out your password and getting into your device. I'd love to run unrooted, but would adaway still have an effect? I'm thinking that the definitions are already applied, so maybe it would work unrooted. But cf.lumen, which I love and can't find the same functionality anywhere else, seems to always "enable interactive shell" on boot. Would this work unrooted? But again, as long so you're doing all this stuff, you can't lock your bootloader again, can you? Or can you lock it on a stock rom with the kind of modifications I'm talking about. I read that locking bootloader while having a custom rom loaded can cause a brick, although I'm not quite sure why. Couldn't you just always get into fastboot to unlock it again?
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Pfew...so many questions...there are always vulnerabilities out there that hackers can find..like Stagefright...but a rooted phone is the most vulnerable. So having a phone with a locked bootloader and unrooted is the best security...still not guaranteed against every possible thing. But it is the best...now what are you trying to protect? Your data...or someone being able to wipe and use the phone as their own? All you can do really is try to protect from a phone being hacked remotely...and a rooted phone is like leaving the safe door open. But if someone steals your phone, there are always nefarious ways to make it usable.
KennyG123 said:
Pfew...so many questions...there are always vulnerabilities out there that hackers can find..like Stagefright...but a rooted phone is the most vulnerable. So having a phone with a locked bootloader and unrooted is the best security...still not guaranteed against every possible thing. But it is the best...now what are you trying to protect? Your data...or someone being able to wipe and use the phone as their own? All you can do really is try to protect from a phone being hacked remotely...and a rooted phone is like leaving the safe door open. But if someone steals your phone, there are always nefarious ways to make it usable.
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Yeah, sorry for the wall of questions. I am just trying to wrap my head around some of these issues. At the end of the day, I don't really keep sensitive data on the phone, although it would not be good if a bad actor got into my gmail, for instance. I suppose I should migrate the last of my sensitive accounts to a secondary email, so no password resets could be initiated from a stolen phone. It's always a tradeoff between convenience and security I know. It's also a little worrysome that simply unlocking the phone activates it for androidpay. An unlocked phone stolen out of someone's hand is essentially the same as stealing all the credit cards in their wallet. It would be nice if android pay allowed an additional fingreprint/pin/password to make the transaction. Anyway, I'm now taking my own thread way off topic. Thanks for the insights though.
greves1 said:
Yeah, sorry for the wall of questions. I am just trying to wrap my head around some of these issues. At the end of the day, I don't really keep sensitive data on the phone, although it would not be good if a bad actor got into my gmail, for instance. I suppose I should migrate the last of my sensitive accounts to a secondary email, so no password resets could be initiated from a stolen phone. It's always a tradeoff between convenience and security I know. It's also a little worrysome that simply unlocking the phone activates it for androidpay. An unlocked phone stolen out of someone's hand is essentially the same as stealing all the credit cards in their wallet. It would be nice if android pay allowed an additional fingreprint/pin/password to make the transaction. Anyway, I'm now taking my own thread way off topic. Thanks for the insights though.
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For most phones that have fingerprint security Android Pay can be set up that way. I won't use it anyway because it would be crazy to hand a waiter your unlocked phone, or to have to follow him to the register. It would only be useful to me in the supermarket but I am carrying a credit card anyway. But that is one thing people forget, rooting a phone means removing the main security.
KennyG123 said:
For most phones that have fingerprint security Android Pay can be set up that way. I won't use it anyway because it would be crazy to hand a waiter your unlocked phone, or to have to follow him to the register. It would only be useful to me in the supermarket but I am carrying a credit card anyway. But that is one thing people forget, rooting a phone means removing the main security.
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N5X and android pay seems to tell me to just "unlock your phone" and hold it close to the reader. No need for an additional fingerprint. And no option to require this in settings...
greves1 said:
N5X and android pay seems to tell me to just "unlock your phone" and hold it close to the reader. No need for an additional fingerprint. And no option to require this in settings...
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Yes, that should get you to the authorization screen and then if you have fingerprint set up should ask you for the fingerprint to authorize. Android Pay also now works on phones without fingerprint sensors so that is why they provide those simple instructions. Final authorization instructions will appear on your screen.
KennyG123 said:
Yes, that should get you to the authorization screen and then if you have fingerprint set up should ask you for the fingerprint to authorize. Android Pay also now works on phones without fingerprint sensors so that is why they provide those simple instructions. Final authorization instructions will appear on your screen.
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Ah, great to know. Thanks.
greves1 said:
Ah, great to know. Thanks.
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Unfortunately I can't test that theory since I am on a custom ROM and also Xposed. But everything I read says it should utilize the fingerprint if available.
KennyG123 said:
Unfortunately I can't test that theory since I am on a custom ROM and also Xposed. But everything I read says it should utilize the fingerprint if available.
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Real word use shows that android pay does not ask for an additional fingerprint at the time of use. It's just as the instructions say, as long as your phone is unlocked at the time it is held up to the scanner, androidpay will work. I kind of wish they allowed for the additional security of an at-scan fingerprint read, but oh well. I have yet to test if the password/pin can be removed by the methods discussed in this thread, and androidpay working after defeating this security. If it does, then this is obviously a major security vulnerability of having an unlocked phone and using androidpay at the same time. Probably not more dangerous in terms of protecting against CC thieves, since they can just swipe a card stolen from your wallet at a terminal, but you probably wouldn't want to keep too many cards on your phone. Again, I haven't tested this out, if a fingerprint is still required to get in after a password database defeat, but someone should do this test.
If you have your phone lost or stolen just cancel your cards as if it happened to your wallet. Simple no?
I've always been a privacy advocate and been knowledgeable about those law that protect us. After finding out judges can compel you to use your fingerprints to unlock your phone but compel you to give your password to unlock your phone/ your information, I've been looking to see if you can combine the two. I haven't found any yet but I thought someone here might now.
Is there a way require both a fingerprint and password/pattern/pin to unlock your phone every time? Would I have to download an app or something else? Is this even possible without me doing the coding myself?
Thanks in advance to anyone who answers or offers advice on how to achieve this.
Google gives you the option when you set up on initial boot .:good:
Icon000 said:
I've always been a privacy advocate and been knowledgeable about those law that protect us. After finding out judges can compel you to use your fingerprints to unlock your phone but compel you to give your password to unlock your phone/ your information, I've been looking to see if you can combine the two. I haven't found any yet but I thought someone here might now.
Is there a way require both a fingerprint and password/pattern/pin to unlock your phone every time? Would I have to download an app or something else? Is this even possible without me doing the coding myself?
Thanks in advance to anyone who answers or offers advice on how to achieve this.
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I wouldn't be at all worried about being ordered to unlock a device with the finger print for various reasons.
- 3 wrong attempts locks the device via password
- rebooting the devices forces a password entry
- every 48 hours the device will require a password entry
So as you see there's no way that anyone could be sure that your device will be unlockable with your fingerprint, and just because you have a fingerprint sensor doesn't mean you've set it up to unlock your device.
Even if you happen to suddenly find yourself in some dystopian universe with a big brother government somehow being able to prove you use the finger print sensor, it would be child's play to simply reboot the device (can even be done in your pocket without looking at the screen) or to use your wrong finger 3 times, or for 48 hours to pass, etc.
Hey everyone. Does anyone know how I can store a fingerprint on this but NOT use it to unlock the phone?
I want to be able to use it for apps like LastPass, or payments, but I do not want it able to unlock my phone. Can someone please tell me how to set that up? Thanks!
I don't have a solution for you, but I am very curious why you don't want it to unlock the phone?
skaforey said:
I don't have a solution for you, but I am very curious why you don't want it to unlock the phone?
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Because of Security / privacy. Police or government personnel are allowed to force you to unlock your phone if it is only locked with a finger print.
However, if you lock your phone with only a pin or password (Something you KNOW), it is protected by the 5th Amendment, and they can't make you open your phone.
Drashnar said:
Because of Security / privacy. Police or government personnel are allowed to force you to unlock your phone if it is only locked with a finger print.
However, if you lock your phone with only a pin or password (Something you KNOW), it is protected by the 5th Amendment, and they can't make you open your phone.
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This is not true at all. Also when you use a fingerprint you still have a passcode or pin that has to be set up.
Either way is it THAT big of a deal. What kind of situation would you get into that the police would ever want to get into your phone?? Even if they did.. what's on your phone that you would care if they saw...
I don't get people.
skaforey said:
I don't have a solution for you, but I am very curious why you don't want it to unlock the phone?
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aholeinthewor1d said:
This is not true at all. Also when you use a fingerprint you still have a passcode or pin that has to be set up.
Either way is it THAT big of a deal. What kind of situation would you get into that the police would ever want to get into your phone?? Even if they did.. what's on your phone that you would care if they saw...
I don't get people.
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Yes, you set a pin. But as long as you have your fingerprint, it no longer requires that pin to be used.
And it isn't a matter of what a person does or doesn't have on their phone. It's a matter of I don't want them on my phone without my permission, period.
As for it being true, it IS true. In addition to various court rulings, I was taught when I went for my CISSP Cert.
http://gizmodo.com/cops-can-make-you-fingerprint-unlock-your-phone-and-th-1653984192
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-iphones-fingerprints-20160430-story.html
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Anyway, this thread can be locked / deleted.
I used the support / chat feature on the phone to speak with a Google Rep. The functionality I want isn't present, but being of a security/privacy nature, has been escalated for inclusion in a future build. Thanks everyone.
This thread is to discuss how to accomplish the requested, not a discussion on whether or not you should be able to from a moral/legal standpoint.
That being said, I would love to know how to do this, but for a different reason entirely.
The closest thing I can offer is to reboot the phone if you have reason to believe you might be in a situation where the fingerprint could be used against you. When the phone boots, the PIN is required the first time instead of the fingerprint. If you press and hold the power button for about 10 seconds or long press for 1-2 seconds and tap restart, there are no other steps to reboot. It doesn't prompt or confirm the reboot.
I don't use fingerprint security at all.
But Doesn't Google have access to our pin codes and passwords.
That have to be used with biometric security?
If so a simple court order gets that done quickly.
Drashnar said:
Yes, you set a pin. But as long as you have your fingerprint, it no longer requires that pin to be used.
And it isn't a matter of what a person does or doesn't have on their phone. It's a matter of I don't want them on my phone without my permission, period.
As for it being true, it IS true. In addition to various court rulings, I was taught when I went for my CISSP Cert.
http://gizmodo.com/cops-can-make-you-fingerprint-unlock-your-phone-and-th-1653984192
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-iphones-fingerprints-20160430-story.html
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Anyway, this thread can be locked / deleted.
I used the support / chat feature on the phone to speak with a Google Rep. The functionality I want isn't present, but being of a security/privacy nature, has been escalated for inclusion in a future build. Thanks everyone.
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Click to collapse
When the police bist in just reset the phone... First login has to be a pin or password not a fingerprint.
If you're don't want you're phone used against you then take the ultimate plunge and smash that on the ground.
Or don't use the fingerprint scanner. Lol