Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
qazzi76 said:
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why has this been brough back to life? DaveShaw closed the last thread, can't you respect that and leave it for a bit?
No clearly I can't.
While the TP2 isn't that bad a device - if all else fails I will probably end up with one - There is an underlying issue here that needs to be discussed and addressed that isn't only applicable to the Touch Pro 2.
And further more I'm not offending anyone I'm encouraging discussion that needs to be encouraged.
I've been here since 2004 and been using these devices before 2004 and am seriously wondering what's happening with WM in the industry lately.
- WM7 promised the world but has yet to see the light of day.
- We still don't have properly implemented VGA recording in our devices
- Rich application experience is only available through 3rd party programs and pluggins when it should be available at the OS level.
- Why on earth do some programmers know how to manipulate the hardware at OS level better than Microsoft, the people that make the OS (Example Point UI)
Seriously what is going on here?
Have you seen the Palm Pre?
Have you seen the Iphone?
Have you seen Android Cupcake?
What do we have?
Microsoft has given us a half a hearted attempt at an OS refresh (6.5) and embarassingly all our rich app experiences are provided by third parties.
Why couldn't HTC release Rhodium level hardware with Android?
As for processor specs:
From the MSM7200A datasheet that I "absolutely don't have":
7200: 90 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
7200A: 65 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
Some more interesting changes in non-A vs A are that the A has 24bpp display support for EBI2, and the memory is clocked at 166mhz instead of 128mhz (aside from the obvious 528mhz (533 officially) addition) and also uses a different GPS core. I assume all the latter is also in the 7201A but I cannot verify that, so...
As to the repackaging thing, perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not feel like the TP is a repackaged TyTN II, nor do I really feel the TP2 is a repackaged TP. But, if you say the latter you should also say the former - the thread starter only did the latter. Even if for one you may feel instinctively that it isn't repackaged and for the other you do, it's either both or neither, from my viewpoint.
I agree there have been many improvements, but most of them were not in the 'bare' hardware. And that was the discussion point of the thread starter, who stated in one of his posts that we were not talking about software. Obviously, casing, screens, etc have improvements as well as the software.
Again, I love the TP2. The first time I played with one was love at first sight.
As for video, the 7200 series is more than capable - just not supported very well. With fully optimized drivers and software, video playback should be much better than it is right now. Its the old trick of unleashing a little bit more potential with every device release to get people to upgrade. Sound business model, but obviously us techs frown at it.
As for snapdragon, I agree it has got awesome capabilities, but there are some caveats (note that I already played with snapdragon devices and it felt really fast to me... much faster than TP2).
Caveat #1: How will it stack up versus the Tegra? I've also seen Tegra (test) devices in action up close (no touching, though, and it was bigger than my pocket) and it did seem extremely awesome.
Caveat #2: It's still Qualcomm. While HTC is partially to blame for the whole mess the past few years, so is Qualcomm. Both of these companies continuously let us down performance-wise. Will the old dogs learn new tricks? Will major corporations ever actually care about their customers? Will they ever deliver what they promise? We are talking about HTC and Qualcomm here, and due to past experience I wouldn't put the chances of that very high.
Of course, Microsoft also has a big role to play in optimizing WM. It's a dog. But it's improving... I do have high hopes for WM7.
Do I feel betrayed? I don't think that's the correct word, but yes, I am disappointed (even if I do love the TP2 ). I think over time things will get better though. WM being the slow dog that it is, with the latest hardware and some effort it should still be technically possible to top iPhone performance by a large margin.
I can easily understand your frustration though. I am myself heavily invested in WM (my livelyhood actually depends on it) so I am also frustrated. It can be much better!
Hi Chainfire,
Oh - I see... Got you.
So the A supports higher bit resolution displays and has faster memory!
Ok I stand corrected about the MSM7200 series processors.
Somehow I'm not surprised the hardware is capable of good Video - I just haven't experienced it.. yet.. - But I also put that down to poor colaboration (possibly deliberately) on MS, HTC and Qualcomms part)
I also have been wondering about the Tegra but I see it taking ages to come to market based on NVidia's PDA GPU efforts before which eventually materialised in Dells axim x51v (PDA) initially and then imates 6150(Phone) ages after anouncement.
Obviously this could change.
I agree the Tegra is a worthy force to be reckoned with if implemented correctly - I unfortunately have only seen working examples of the Tegra on Youtube but what I have seen has been very very impressive GUI wise.
The Snapdragon looks kinda crazy too with its 1.3ghz potential when its already flying at 1ghz on the TG01 and the whole netbook angle/implementation of snapdragon.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what WM7 has to offer although I imagine it's must be a little difficult for you at the mo with the whole Android and apple app store gaining ground and making their mark in industry.
Anyhow I wish you good luck with your WM based business projects/ventures.
Maybe tp2 use msm7201A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522460
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Mine still not in...
EDIT: Checked FCC pics, that one indeed seems to have 7201A. Wonder if the EU version will also have this or have 7200A. We'll know soon enough I guess!
Chainfire said:
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UK version 7200A-528MHz, according the the About screen.
Hmm, that makes it likely the US versions will be MSM7201A and the rest of the world will get MSM7200A... Interesting!
out of interest im in uk and mine has the 7200A...
Hello...
My question is simple. There was a big emulator push from like 2003-2006, but it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of talk about it anymore. FpseCe is the only thing that I can find that's very active.
FpseCe...
This is a wonderful playstation emulator. Since v0.10 was released, around Christmas, the compatibility went through the roof. v0.9.6 played 1 game (Front Mission 3) out of the 10-15 that I tried. Even at that, it crapped after about 4 hours due to some video chunk.
Now, of those same 10-15 games, only 2 don't work. The rest were able to get, at least, to the first save-game spot. Front Mission 3 was able to get past the video chunk, but it does crash fairly often. I just save more often then I would otherwise. As it's not a consistent crashing (like the aforementioned video), I can play it right over.
You can spend a few bucks and get save/load, whenever you want.
My omnia gives me about full-speed in 2d and about third-speed in 3d. My vogue was quarter-speed to third-speed all around.
Another nice thing is that the saves should be compatible with some other windows psx emulators. I haven't tried it, so I can only speculate.
PocketGBA...
This has been dead for years, but it is still the top gba emulator, that I know of. I was able to complete Final Fantasy Tactics Advance on my vogue. It would crash with certain parts, consistently, but I could transfer my save to VisualBoyAdvance and get past it. Then I would just resave and continue on my phone. It was about quarter-speed to half-speed on my vogue.
I would really like to see further development of this platform. If we can get full-speed with a psx, certainly we should be able to with gba.
Morphgear...
I thought this was going to be a pretty hot item, but it seems like it died out a few years ago, too. Given that it's module-based, I would have thought the people would keep pushing them out.
Nintendo Ds...
Now here's the big issue. Before people start saying that it could never happen, please remember the 200mh cpu from 5 years ago and people saying that you could never do something better when snes wasn't smooth. I think current hardware and screen resolution would be plenty for a good coder, yet I haven't heard of a single attempt.
There is a version of ubuntu that was being developed for the omnia (omnibuntu), but it has ceased. It was straight linux, no layered on top of winmo. It could be possible to load a linux-based nds emulator on top of that.
So, that's what I know about it. What do you guys know about it? Is there a plan on the horizon that isn't being actively discussed, or are things pretty stale in this area?
JJ
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation (you'd need to always carry 2 WinMo phones with you...).
NDS emulation is pretty unfeasable (even the emulator available for laptops/desktops are far from perfection... not to mention that they are extremelly heavy). No current pocket pc has the capabilities to emulate the NDS in a way that would actually be playable.
I'm currently more concerned about old-school console emulation.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
A free GBA emulator would be a great thing. A port of the gpSP would most likely be the best approach (as was done in the iPhone). The original gpSP was MIPS (PSP) but there are some arm implementations (like the ones for the GP2X and Wiz).
The GBA module and lack of emulators with decent onscreen controls is what made Morphgear thrive (but lets face the fact that the majority of the users are pirating those). Seems like Morphgear has gone open-source: sourceforge project page
I keep hoping that someone will eventually update those old emulator sources that still exist... Most of them just need oncreen controls and resolution related fixes (and by crossing source components between them this could be achieved).
Here are some websites that have pocket pc emulators:
- MorphGear: famous emulator GUI and framework (OSS)
- PocketSnes (OSS)
- PocketNester (OSS)
- ScummVM (OSS)
- n0p: genesis, snes and dosbox ports/mods (OSS)
- emu193:genesis, nes, snes, gb/gbc pots/mods (OSS)
- nyagosu homepage: list of ppc emulators and resources
- emulation9: list of ppc emulators and resources
- Zophar's Domain: list of ppc emulators and resources
Here is a big list of sources I compiled (most resources are from projects mentioned above).
frmariam said:
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FpseCe has great on-screen button support (I use left analog, l1/l2/r2/r1, start/select, and shapes). You can go anywhere from 3x4 to 6x7 (I think). Plus, it can have separate portrait buttons. I think it's what all other emulators should base on.
Also, with any emulator, that supports hardware buttons, you can use a bluetooth gamepad (Msi Bgp100, for instance).
The lack of a proper d-pad almost canned the omnia for me. I came from the htc vogue. The extra power of the omnia and fpsece's onscreen buttons made the decision. I miss the d-pad, but it's not a deal-breaker. Unfortunately, I can't do much with other emulators because of it.
The platform doesn't even have good nes, snes, gb/gbc, gg/sms and genesis active projects (these are the platforms I care most).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PocketNester and n0p's PocketSnes have given me fine results on my vogue. It's possible that a 200mh TI chip wouldn't fare as well. The vogue is a 400mh qualcomm. My omnia is a 624mh marvell.
JJ
Is there actually ANY active emulator for ANY console except FpsCe?
I found that morphgear itself is active. I think last version was even released in 2010. But its emulation modules are from 2007, which makes it old junk. It sucks how can 67MHz DS have far greater gb emulator than 500+ MHz devices.
The PocketPC (especially most new models) seriously lack hw buttons. A PS1 emulator will always be greatly impaired by this... Scilor developed a way to control a ppc by using another ppc via bluetooth but it's not a practical solution to achieve mobile emulation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i love models with HW keyboard. Its awesome to play old-school games on HW keyboard and looking friend how he can press only one button once on his omnia
P.S.: good idea for thread
@matejdro
An unfortunate truth... Every Windows Mobile emulation project (apart from FpseCE and ScummVM) is dead afaik...
I arrived too late to the scene... The Omnia is my first PDA (and at the time the options were it and the HTC Diamond... an easy choice). I don't like hw qwerty's very much because they are bulky (I don't quite need a keyboard but would have much appreciated a dpad).
@Fa310tx
The Vogue has a hw dpad. If you compare that with the lousy virtual mouse/dpad on the Omnia... I'm also on an Omnia and I can tell that using only the screen doesn't work.
Also these phones are (W)QVGA. Most of these old emulator simply won't work on (W)VGA or will have serious display problems.
The gsensor also doesn't feel right as an ultimate alternative (at least gpad wasn't that great to use with emulators). You need a precise directional control.
For the most recent devices I feel like the best alternative would be to playing in landscape placing the dpad on-screen and assigning the other major buttons to the few hw keys. I asked n0p some months ago to add something like this to his emulators but he said he wasn't interested.
The sources exist... But the WinMo platform isn't very popular and it has lost many great devs to the iPhone and Android scene... We need someone willing to give them a much needed update. I believe it would't take too much work or coding experience to make them usable again. Since I can't code all I can do is search and gather information and source (not enough... but better than nothing... at least the sources won't be lost).
Hmmm...
I hadn't considered turning the omnia the other direction. I'm a classic d-pad guy, so the phone should always be landscape right (d-pad on the left). It irritated me that the volume buttons were on the wrong side. I never thought to use, what should be, the d-pad button as an action button. Unfortunately, though, that only gives 3 and the psx has 4.
I, also, tried the motion sensor for movement. It worked, decently, in Front Mission 3, but I'd still rather use the on-screen analog stick.
The cool thing about FpseCe is that it saves the on-screen and hardware button configurations for each game. In Front Mission 3, I use the left analog stick for movement, but that doesn't work with some other games. I can save an on-screen d-pad for that.
JJ
This isn't just about FpseCe...
Don't forget about the buttons on the sides! For some of them long presses act as different keys (with that and a virtual dpad you have all the needed buttons... also most PS1 games didn't really need all the buttons).
Invisible virtual buttons could also be placed over the game screen (like n0p did in gens... it could coexist with the dpad since emulated multitouch can be done on resistive screens).
Pressing 2 buttons at the same time could act as another button... There are many alternatives.
The point is that such an interface would work well in new devices with most emulators (nes, snes, gb/gbc, gba, gg/sms, gen...).
I just read a desmume thread, that went way off-topic, but it did bring one point up...
Desmume emulates arm7 and arm9 cpus on an x86 system. If native code could be used, it would likely be a quick emulator (maybe it wouldn't be an emulator, then). But, basing something off desmume would be pointless.
JJ
It's not just about the achitecture or bus speed!
You need a lot more power to emulate than to run native code. Also most PPCs have arm6 cpus and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering. And all this has to be done while running the rest of the OS!
The GBA is also arm (and with lower specs) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
There's still too much to learn about DS emulation... Current emus are extremelly non-optimal and buggy. Desmume is the only open active OSS project and it's pretty slow even on high-end desktops. No sane person would waste their time porting a wip, heavy, buggy emu to an extremelly limited platform.
Regarding portable devices... Being mips and without a touchscreen even the PSP (with a 333mhz processor... but with the media engine) has a better chance of ever getting NDS emulation (which will also never happen even though there are some extremely slow POC builds of desmume)!
Just drop any hopes for NDS emulation... It won't happen for any of the current devices nor for the foreseeable future devices (if ever).
Oldschool console emulators ftw!
I agree with statements on the lack of functional buttons. I played a bit more old school games on my MDA with the directional pad than I ever do with my TP2. Now I'm used to sudoku, Hexic, Uno, and golf games made for PPC. I wish there was a better solution without using the key mapper
frmariam said:
Most PPCs are arm6 and bellow! Not to mention without dedicated hw for gfx rendering.
The GBA is also arm (and with less resources) and there's not a decent OSS port emulator available for WinMo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now this is truely lame. Gba was introduced nearly 10 years ago and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. Snapdragon is just out and it looks to have an arm7 cpu. The new cpu is like 8-9x the speed, but still.
With that being said, the nds would still need emulating for the arm9 part.But I'm not giving up on it, just yet. I think a lot could change in the hardware scene in a year or two. Plus, historically, we should be getting something in the next couple of years. Psx had a working ppc emulator within 8 years. Gba had a working ppc emulator within 5 years. Even if we were generous, a proof of concept could be available in 2012. Of course, this is all speculation. I have no programming experience. I'm just looking, superficially.
I definitely think that a better-coded gba emulator really could be workable, though. I know I'd support it. I'm an FpseCe supporter.
JJ
You may have a POC nds emu by 2012 on a ppc... but even by then I doubt that Desmume will be mature enough on a desktop. Trying to get people involved in this is a waste of time and bogus at this point.
I know that getting a good GBA emu is more than possible. I really believe that it could be done if some experienced dev put in the time to make the necessary changes to one of the arm gpSP ports that are already out there. For what I read the gpSP core is fairly light and portable and with existing arm ports it would be even simpler (at least than porting the original mips version). But for what I read neither Exophase (original developer) nor Notaz (contributed to some arm ports) are interested.
But ultimatelly I fear that emulation in PPC will never really get anywhere unless the original projects start making the ports themselves like ScummVM did (rather than these fractured and often closed source ports that sporadically appear). The lack of hardware buttons in all (non-qwerty) new devices also makes the platform a somewhat poorer choice for emulation.
WinMo is a small platform and with ever decreing number of developers (even more so at coding C/C++). Maybe if WinMo 7 succeeds the platform will get new devs (but with all the new limitations imposed and the certain unreasonably high price of the new devices... I get the feeling that the majority of the elite around here will abandon the platform after 7 debuts).
That could be true, albeit unfortunate.
I didn't realize that gpsp was around. It looks pretty good.
I'm not sure what your reference to mature nds emulators on the desktop is, but I've had nothing but good with desmume and no$gba on my computer. Grant that I don't use them a lot (I've never played a whole game on it), but I don't recall any problems with the playing that I have done (Final Fantasy Tactics A2 and Disgaea).
JJ
i am in ppc emus since 2004-5.
i know every single emu that was made for ARM ppc.
this post WONT be nice, so beware.
actual situation has few reasons and it IS RELATED TO ACTUAL PDA world state, so READ SLOWLY:
-few years ago, there were devices named PDA.
some people realized that these devices are simply small computers DESPITE their makers DID NOT know that YET. so, fresh owners tried to make some GREAT apps, emus too.
-suddenly stupid HTC started to make money(wiping ALMOST EVERY single producent of mainstream PDAs) with their TRENDY feeble devices.
-"Developers" foras started to turn into HTC tube DESPITE of ridiculous trend turning PDAs with phone module into JUST phone. Effect: 2443789 skinners are getting donation, while good appmakers' posts are wanishing under pile of crap.
-some people just finished with goddamn WM just because of trend that is visible for few years: no buttons, feeble CPUs, ridiculous tende(a?)ncy to make JUST screen filled with HTC BS, not small computer. you know what - i was using 300 mhz xscale pxa263 PDA able to emulate everything but Amy, when i killed it with haret(Oo) someone GAVE me wizard. then i realized how death of pda looks like(2.6 times SLOWER cpu for 3x amount of cash - pure idea of htc). Actually people are stupidified with fockin opengl's HD screens whatever, where's pure power, i am asking.
-some people just lost their interest in programming(no time, family, maybe unemployment, personal stories, sources lost etc.). i remember when n0p lost his 2210 - he tried to ask for some donations, unsuccesful - effect - ZERO updates since.
-some people left wm for symbian(ok..) and...android(well, this is funny, go and look at emulators state for that platform, hhhehhhh).
-developing emulators for your crappy modern devices needs similar SKILLS as always, shame, that newbs are not that determined to make SOMETHING like people from first era of pdas.
BUT, guys - do not be sad, we have ANOTHER manila skin, and wm7 with 3 buttons on sight, soon.
sorry for my english, it is late i am tired, but i cannot stand what happened to pda world(there is no apps like emus that shows weakness of actual devices, this may be NOT clear for ya, anyway).
and newbs with HD2.
i just do not understand people anymore.
upd:
for curious: check actual ScummVM trunk build - lands of lore works.
upd 2: to OP - you may consider making review of PORTS(i recommend DUNGEON MASTER/csb port!), it is similar area to emus, i BET that 85% of newbs don't know how MANY ports are made since 2001.
well, some may lol at fact, that these may need at last....FOCKIN DPAD.
do they have such thing?
i doubt it.
no fun for ya, modern gadgeteers then, sorry ;p
go buy REAL pda from 2005 for 40$.
I've used Scumm for Sierra and LucasArts adventure games.
I don't care for first-person rpgs, though. With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Mentioning the dpad/button issue...
FpsceCe has the best implimentation of on-screen buttons that I've ever seen. My omnia (which has a suck-crap dpad) can play psx games with d-pad or analog stick. It really works, fenominally.
JJ
With that being said, James Beckingham (the guy porting Diablo) has ported Eye Of The Beholder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, i know that port, it's unfinished, shame...
FpsceCe has(...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rare case. They really did good job with 0.10. idd.
----
you know what funny is?
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
ah, btw teenagent works with latest scummvm's / teenagent DZIAŁA
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
info for readers: just to let you know: we have emulators of almost everything, from zx spectrum to neogeo here, for WM.
kudos for Poklik for refreshed version of atari xl emu(with ONSCREEN controls, it works even on NAVI's).
goddamn wizard with goddamn omap had best dpad i ever seen :E
damn, i'd like to have that thing in my asus...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My htc vogue had a very nice d-pad.
to OP: btw, you must be young man - you skipped everything but consoles...for me playing stunt car racer on ST emu beats every console game, lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Young would be subjective. I'm 32. I grew up with the original gameboy, so portable console games are my thing.
JJ
Hey guys, that PSX emulator, whose name escapes me, can run ISOs of NES and GB emulators (with the rest of the CD filled with roms) made for the playstation. Its sounds like it's a little trouble to set up, but it's certainly doable if you want some on-screen buttons to emulate those.
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Fa310tx said:
Hehehe...
Now that's something that I never thought of (a psx emulator running an nes emulator).
Of course, why would you want to do that when pocket pc has good nes/gb emulators (unless you're just referring to the lack of hardware buttons)? My particular problem is gba/nds emulators.
JJ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gb/new emulators are very optimized, true(fullspeed w sound even on UNDERCLOCKED omap850).
but i wonder what if you do not have buttons...well, fpsece seems to be last resort option(and damn, rather for desperados).
gba...idd ,it seems theres noone that can make it for newer devices...
Young would be subjective. I'm 32.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh, same here...i feel old and gnarly..zzzz...
hey im just wondering if it will be possible to get WP7 for my Zune HD1 anytime soon. I will be prefectly willing to be someones tester if they need one.
I can tell you there is no chance of this happening, screen size is not the same as WP7 and with rumours of a Zune HD2 coming out soon it's fair to say that the Zune HD will be abandoned for the newer one which will be apps compatible.
Please keep speculation, general questions in WP7 general!
. . .
To General!
~~Tito~~
does anyone have anything to contribute?
Tegra 1 is nowhere near Snapdragon in general computing performance (probably not far off in 3d though). The only chance it would happen is if Microsoft decides to do it but there's no way they do that either. Not only is the screen size and CPU below spec, it's missing the buttons needed for navigation.
On the other hand, 75% chance we see a ZuneHD2 running WP7 (minus the phone).
I was thinking of something like a bootable rom. That kind of thing is all the rage on android I was wondering if that logic could be applied here
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Even tho the tegra may not be as fast I can only think of older android devices that work just fine on android. My eris running kaosfroyo runs just as fast as my dads evo
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
bump, i am still wondering if this is possible. Anyone have ideas?
given the lack of response, i doubt anyone is working on doing this at present.
It is impossible as WP7 only includes drivers for the Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 processor. For someone to port WP7 to the Zune HD they'd need to write Tegra drivers, account for the 50% reduction in performance, RAM, etc.
Unless you have the source code for WP7 and stacks of time, it aint' happening.
rats, my next move would be email MS about getting wp7 on my zune
Okay,
So as known there are already dev's working toward WP7 on a HD2.
This got me wondering as a Galaxy S owner,
could we port WP7 to a Galaxy S
- I know this has already been asked BUT, When people say no I don't think they've really thought about it
I mean there's like 2 samsung WP7 handsets, the Catus is extremely similar to the Galaxy S, in terms of hardware they're most likely identical... so surely there would be no need to write new drivers/ or there would be minimal work needed on drivers.
Obviously I'm not a Dev, but I do have a basic understanding of programming and computers ect.
Just thought i'd put it out there...
Look forward to any replies
The Galaxy S is running a Samsung platform called Hummingbird, while the Foscus and Omnia 7 is running Snapdragon, like all other WP7 headsets. Right there we have a pretty major problem with drivers.
ahh, hadn't seen that
i just presumed that the samsungs would be running hummingbird and then the WP7 OS would be running different drivers to account for that.
However- surelyy if the WP7 OS is written anyway like Windows is written it would be "possible".
And structurally is there much of a difference between Hummingbird and snapdragon processors, I only ask as Hackintosh machines have been built to run AMD processors which are not intel (Obviously there is a difference between Hackintoshes and small handsets).
So apart from that small (huge most likely fatal difference) is there anything else that is massively difference is that driver(s) then once the HD2mod os is done then the drivers could be worked on - i'd be up for development and testing...
Also the phone will be missing the firmware that WP7 uses to authenticate with Marketplace and other Microsoft services, just like the HD2 will.
So, it will be a Glorified Featurephone, just like the HD2.
Not to mention the driver issue mentioned upthread.
And no, you cannot compare a Hackintosh to smartphones.
firmware used to authenticate with the marketplace and other microsoft services could surely be modified or emulated ?
Yeah I mean the Hackintosh/AMD was the only one that springs to mind but I'm sure theres other examples where a driver has been written or modified to run a processor on an OS that the hardware wasn't built for..
Or perhaps running a layer of emulation between two processor drivers ? (i'm probably speaking complete crap but if we got a bootable kernel then worked it then sat in an emulation layer above the actual hummingbird drivers and hardware ?
Who will write the hummingbird drivers from scratch?
Good luck emulating that stuff, BTW.
You still have to have a valid certificate (or whatever it is) for the phone to authenticate with Microsoft's servers, the same way you have to have a Genuine Windows License when Windows Genuine Advantage checks (can use a fake one to install, but when it checks it won't pass).
Now that I've thought about it a bit, I guess you can compare it to hackintoshes. Since it takes many hacks to get them onto non-WP7 devices with the same or similar hardware, and it will be crippled without Microsoft's "dongle" in the device
Okay Okay,
so I guess pretty unlikely to be able to do haha
I might have a look to see if I can get hold of the drivers and open them up look at differences, Ideally we need a hummingbird on android but that's very unlikely because as fore-mentioned it's a Samsung only android processor. A snapdragon on android would kinda help as then you'd have two comparable device drivers, but they'd be in the wrong coding for WP7...
meh, I give up for now.
but thanks for answering my question anyway
PROJECT
I am currently working on an SNES emulator for windows phone.
The silverlight code has been found, now I just need to port.
Anyone who can help is certainly welcome. Just shoot me up a PM!
MOCKUPS ATTACHED
Interesting, Thought it could not be done (hardware limitations) sounds good, I'll be watching this one...
Of course it's possible, there are fully working SNES emu's for android that runs great on the HD2
Implemented how?
IzaacJ said:
Of course it's possible, there are fully working SNES emu's for android that runs great on the HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you happen to know how those emulators are programmed? Are they native ARM code, or are they Java?
A SNES emulator for WP7 that runs on any phone (not just unlocked ones) has to be built in C#, and it's by no way already given that this runs fast enough, IMHO. Random hickups caused by the GC thrown in for extra fun
rbrunner7 said:
Do you happen to know how those emulators are programmed? Are they native ARM code, or are they Java?
A SNES emulator for WP7 that runs on any phone (not just unlocked ones) has to be built in C#, and it's by no way already given that this runs fast enough, IMHO. Random hickups caused by the GC thrown in for extra fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, the other...AKA Android and WM6/6.5 device has native access to the OS and hardware. Windows Phone 7 gets close but, ONLY on a fully unlocked device. Maybe we will see better access to the system in Windows Phone 8 but, time will tell.
Anyone could use a photo editing software and create an image (you missed the top 2 buttons btw) but, creating a app that needs direct hardware access that it cant have, is a different story.
If you were to only create this for fully unlocked devices would be great but, it limits the people who will use it.
DavidinCT said:
If you were to only create this for fully unlocked devices would be great but, it limits the people who will use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say DON'T DISCOURAGE HIM!
I'd love to have a snes emulator on my lumia 710. Perhaps we'll see a SURGE in native app development? there certainly was when the ZuneHD was "unlocked"
more apps = more incentive for full unlocks. Just look at it as extending the life of our newly "abandoned" devices.
**David and Rbrunner are right though - don't port a silverlight based emulater... the performance would be terrible
evilgenius31 said:
I say DON'T DISCOURAGE HIM!
I'd love to have a snes emulator on my lumia 710. Perhaps we'll see a SURGE in native app development? there certainly was when the ZuneHD was "unlocked"
more apps = more incentive for full unlocks. Just look at it as extending the life of our newly "abandoned" devices.
**David and Rbrunner are right though - don't port a silverlight based emulater... the performance would be terrible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get your hopes up. It's already been said, it will be very hard, if not impossable the way WP7 is locked down. Windows Phone 8 will have native code access. I bet anyone looking to create a SNES emulator who knows what is involved, would wait for WP8, it just makes sence and you wont have to deal with the direct hardware issues that you will have with WP7....
I'd bet its a total No-No for WP7 devices, sorry...