Related
Visit Groubal and sign the petition: http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Retweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/52265679990169600
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
UPDATE (14th June 2011):
We are now over the 10,000 mark.
I have now spoken with Motorola and gotten confirmation that Motorola plan to unlock every device that will get an update in the second half of this year. This will include maintenance & firmware updates, but is still subject to Carrier approval.
The promising sign is that Verizon has already allowed Motorola to unlock a device on their network, the Xoom, which utilizes the unlockable/re-lockable model that Motorola intends on using across their devices.
I'm still looking to work with Motorola in the coming months to help see if we can make this a smooth process for Motorola and the community.
You can read the article here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/06/14/an-u...witter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ausdroid+(Ausdroid)
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
UPDATE (26th April 2011):
We are now at ~8,700 mark.
Motorola has now responded to me, stating that they are looking at unlocking bootloaders across their devices late 2011.
The article for the story can be found here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/04/26/the-little-aussie-taking-on-motorola-u-s/#more-8184
We're still seeking clarity around whether this will be for current devices or only future devices.
I couldn't have gotten this far without the support of everyone here. You guys and girls have been a huge support and help me turn this snowball into a wrecking ball.
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
Previous Update (4th April 2011):
We are now at ~7600 mark.
We're starting to slow down from our initial boom, so I have now set up a Facebook page to see if we can wrangle in some supporters that don't use Twitter or XDA.
I will need your help getting this out there. So share the facebook page where you can.
I'm also looking to see if anyone is interested in helping me Moderate the page. Please PM if you are.
Original Post:
Hi All,
I have created a Groubal (online petition) to get a response from Motorola on it's bootloader policy.
>>This petition started for the Atrix, but I made sure that it was for Motorola's overall Bootloader Policy. I have reached 200 signatures in 2 weeks, but now believe it's time to expand this out of the Atrix space and into the larger Motorola Dev community.
Just signed the petition.
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
spamnco said:
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll be more careful when copying and pasting links.
Let's try this:
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
spamnco said:
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use this shor link: http://4by.in/4
Not that it'll make any difference but your petition is more likely to be taken seriously if comments like that of 'rich fraley' weren't included.
Signed, at length...
Step666 said:
Not that it'll make any difference but your petition is more likely to be taken seriously if comments like that of 'rich fraley' weren't included.
Signed, at length...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, agreed. I tried seeing if I could at least censor the comment, but no dice.
Thanks for you're support guys. I've always been a big fan of the saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".
Famous idea. You got the sign.
i have signed
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Signed as well.
ketonkss4 said:
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On all phones that have locked and encrypted bootloaders, I don't think there's been one that couldn't be rooted. Once rooted, you have access to all the Tethering and WiFi Calling apps out there. So it could be the case, but all unlocking the bootloader does is let you use custom kernels that form the base of alternative roms. So bloatware be damned, it can removed fairly quickly and without even touching the bootloader.
It would be more for warranty claims, that's why the padlock picture on the very first screen's the way to go. That way if a phone is damaged due to modification, the carrier/manufacturer can turn you away due to voided warranty.
signed the partition to
i am looking into the legal side of the locked bootloader to see if theirs any loop holes in locking a phone when the manufacture is part of the open handset alliance
but i think the fastest way of the bootloader being unencrypted is to put up a cash reward for the person that unlocks it.
maybe if we can raise £1000 it might spur someone on to go the extra mile
ketonkss4 said:
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So why is my unlocked/un-branded Defy that is in no way tied to any network also cursed with a locked bootloader?
And if the networks are demanding it, how come not every manufacturer is crippling their handsets in this way?
This is a decision Motorola have made, no-one else.
#UnlockMoto
Thanks :-D
You can also join the #UnlockMoto campain and spread the word on social media networks like Twitter as well as on modding forums and such.
Start by joining the #UnlockMoto Campain for Motorola Unlocked Bootloaders! here: http://twb.ly/UnlockMoto.
Then read: http://bit.ly/UnlockMotoPage
done, signed
signed!!!
Just signed.
adlx.xda said:
Thanks :-D
You can also join the #UnlockMoto campain and spread the word on social media networks like Twitter as well as on modding forums and such.
Start by joining the #UnlockMoto Campain for Motorola Unlocked Bootloaders! here: http://twb.ly/UnlockMoto.
Then read: http://bit.ly/UnlockMotoPage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for posting dude, i've been sending out a tweet for the 2 causes.
Retweet:
http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/50306686350655488
Hello to Canadian Galaxy Nexus owners. If, like me, you are angry at the lack of response from Google or Samsung as to when our yakjuux firmware phones are going to be updated, here's where to complain:
Competition Bureau of Canada (I'm too new to post a link, apparently, but you can google it.)
They have a toll free number in "Contact Us". You'll talk to a real person.
This agency is responsible for investigating claims of false advertising in Canada. I have lodged a complaint against both Google and Samsung over the false claims that the phone I bought was a "Pure Google Experience" phone which would receive operating system updates in a timely fashion due to lack of carrier or manufacturer customization. I suggest you do the same, as the more complaints on an issue they receive, the higher profile the problem becomes for them. I don't know if it will help, but if you would like to reference my file number (R608849), feel free.
Individually, Google has been ignoring us for months. Perhaps the Canadian Government will have better luck.
Enjoy,
Fox
considering google doesnt publish the update directly to yakjuux, you cant really be angry at google.
point the finger at samsung.
Just change your phone to yakju and you won't have to complain. I did that months ago and have always been happy. The process was easy and very well documented on this site.
My co-worker stayed on yakjuux until this week. I was always getting updates that he wasn't.
It is okay to complain if you know you will get positive results. But in this case, it will just be a waste of time because there is no legal definition of "timely".
Just flash the phone to yakju.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I don't really recall any concrete specific promises that would hold up as "false advertising", but it's been a while since I saw the ads so I don't really remember. The definitions of "timely updates" and "pure Google experience" are probably not set in stone and could be argued by either side for whatever strengthens their argument.
It sucks that yakjuux isn't getting updated, but I have a feeling most people on a developer-oriented site such as XDA would probably just spend a few minutes converting their phone to yakju/takju and be done with it rather than go on a crusade trying to get the government involved. Just saying...
I am fully aware that I can flash my phone to yakju, but I've had several friends buy this phone on my recommendation who won't do such a thing. They'll be stuck with the random reboots, low volume, etc, and I want to help them out too. Again, in this thread, people have repeated the line that Google doesn't publish the update for yakjuux phone, but I have yet to see a source from Google for that claim. The only official statement I've seen is Samsung claiming that it DOES come straight from Google. (Yes, I know that Samsung could be wrong/lying about this, but until I see an official word from Google that contradicts it, it's the only thing close to an official story I have.)
Anyway, it's the principle of the thing, now. I want them to give us what we were all led to believe we would get from this phone.
Not even 'could be' lying. ARE lying.
I think the problem here is with samsung, Google was not even aware of the regional variants when the phones started to roll out. Secondly, I don't think going to the BBB or any other method of escalation is going to do anything. The phones in Canada are not marketed as being updated by Google, nor is there any statement regarding the guaranteed updating of the phone.
Regardless of the marketing, the Nexus line of phones is not for novice phone users who want a seamless experience, for those people, i tend to recommend the Galaxy 2/3 line of phones and/or the iPhone as it suites their needs better.
End recommendation: if you can't be bothered to flash a rom, you should not have gotten a Nexus in the first place. If they still insist on getting the Nexus, it takes 1 minute to flash stock yakju to a phone, do it for them - or have them order it through the play store.
Edit: Just for you FoxHoleAtheist - I posted this a while back.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25535165&postcount=461
Matridom said:
I think the problem here is with samsung, Google was not even aware of the regional variants when the phones started to roll out. Secondly, I don't think going to the BBB or any other method of escalation is going to do anything. The phones in Canada are not marketed as being updated by Google, nor is there any statement regarding the guaranteed updating of the phone.
Regardless of the marketing, the Nexus line of phones is not for novice phone users who want a seamless experience, for those people, i tend to recommend the Galaxy 2/3 line of phones and/or the iPhone as it suites their needs better.
End recommendation: if you can't be bothered to flash a rom, you should not have gotten a Nexus in the first place. If they still insist on getting the Nexus, it takes 1 minute to flash stock yakju to a phone, do it for them - or have them order it through the play store.
Edit: Just for you FoxHoleAtheist - I posted this a while back.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=25535165&postcount=461
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. The Nexus isn't intended as a developer's-only phone.. it's marketed to anyone and everyone who wants a pure google phone. Those regular users who buy them shouldn't be forced to A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
FoxholeAtheist said:
Again, in this thread, people have repeated the line that Google doesn't publish the update for yakjuux phone, but I have yet to see a source from Google for that claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From JBQ himself:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/android-building/kMhE-Orl5Kk
Can you quote the Samsung source saying the other variants do get updates from Google? (I'm not questioning you here at all, I just haven't seen that and would like to be fully informed on the topic). The Samsung updates are served from Google servers, but as far as I know Samsung prepares the update for Google to host.
FoxholeAtheist said:
A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though I can certainly understand less technical people not wanting to do it, or even knowing where to look for instructions, efrant has a great guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1626895 ... just in case you ever want to point someone to a proper howto.
and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if it actually voids the warranty. Even if it does, you can 100% restore the phone to the stock state so they can never tell. And to my knowledge back to the Nexus One days, no Nexus phone has ever been refused warranty if it was an actual hardware problem that wasn't caused by software.
Sorry, this is getting off the original topic... just wanted to provide some info.
If you are not willing to fix it yourself then file a complaint against Samsung.
Most people complain through the wrong channels or just don't complain because they don't know who will listen and can actually do anything about it.
Thanks for posting the info.
FoxholeAtheist said:
I completely disagree. The Nexus isn't intended as a developer's-only phone.. it's marketed to anyone and everyone who wants a pure google phone. Those regular users who buy them shouldn't be forced to A) search out relatively obscure tutorials on message boards and B) void their warranty to get the updates their phones need to work properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said it was a developers phone. I stated it was not for novices. this phone is on the bleeding edge of android, it's expected to have issues.
Ya I didn't wait or bother, I just unlocked and rooted and be done with being a slave to anyone when my phone gets updated. Never looked back.
FoxholeAtheist said:
Hello to Canadian Galaxy Nexus owners. If, like me, you are angry at the lack of response from Google or Samsung as to when our yakjuux firmware phones are going to be updated, here's where to complain:
Competition Bureau of Canada (I'm too new to post a link, apparently, but you can google it.)
They have a toll free number in "Contact Us". You'll talk to a real person.
This agency is responsible for investigating claims of false advertising in Canada. I have lodged a complaint against both Google and Samsung over the false claims that the phone I bought was a "Pure Google Experience" phone which would receive operating system updates in a timely fashion due to lack of carrier or manufacturer customization. I suggest you do the same, as the more complaints on an issue they receive, the higher profile the problem becomes for them. I don't know if it will help, but if you would like to reference my file number (R608849), feel free.
Individually, Google has been ignoring us for months. Perhaps the Canadian Government will have better luck.
Enjoy,
Fox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how you feel I have the Nexus S was suppose to get the 4.0 first after Gnex and that didn't happend. Just asking like that in a friendly way. But could Google or Samsung be mad at you cause you modified their device and their rom ?
I'm not pretty sure but I'm pretty sure somewhere there's a word or 2 about not modifying anything of Samsung or Google. Just saying don't want any problem or start a fight
Goes both ways I guess. No offense
Canadian here, but dont care. I'd rather flash my own firmwares.
Although I agree with you FoxholeAtheist, I don't think a forum like xda-developers is the right place to champion your cause, as most of the folks here will have the same response that speedyink just posted above. Maybe go to the Rogers/Bell/Telus forums and post it there. Just sayin'.
I could have swore that Google marketed the nexus line as a developer phone since its conception. I don't see you getting much support for your cause on a forum for developers. Most here have flashed their ROM and moved on.
They marketed the Nexus One as such, and never again. People just ASSumed. It is a consumer device with development abilities.
FoxholeAtheist;28719966If said:
You have no grounds to complain. Nobody is obligated to give time lines for updates. Doing so, and missing the date, means a huge backlash for the company... it's not the risk for them to do that.
As others have suggested. Just flash updates yourself. I'm Canadian and have been running Jellybean since it was first available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no right to complain, nor will the Competition Bureau do anything about it.
The Nexus is marketed as a Pure Google phone. This much you are correct about... However 4.0.2 ICS is still a "pure google experience". They never made any guarantees as to when you'd be receiving updates, if you receive them at all. This is all based on what you believe they should do, not what they told you they would do.
Beyond this, flashing to Yakju/Takju is as easy as pie if you follow efrants thread... you don't even have to flash the regional radio... you can keep it completely 100% stock "Pure Google/Updated by Google" experience like I did and be happy.
Your efforts in complaining will be fruitless. The competition bureau will not investigate this claim based on what you believe, they will look at what you were told, which was basically nothing.
Spoke with my lawyer. Says I have a case against samsung.
1.) Samsung faild to password protect update option
As my almost 2 year old managed to update me to 4.4 from JB 4.1.2. When I did not want 4.3 or 4.4 due to knox.
2.) The knox feature was not advertised when selling the note 2 and other phones sold prior to introducing knox to our phones.
I don't have the money to fork over legal expenses. So lawyer said if I can find more then 400 samsung users who are stuck with knox they would take the case.
If you wish to join reply to post. Once we reach 400 will contact you all with an for proper information.
Pls only use this to count yourself in. Add a comment if you wish when adding yourself but pls no chating. Will make it easy to count who's in this way.
I'm in
rogersb11 said:
I'm in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
droideastcoast said:
They should have given the option when introducing 4.3 and 4.4 of having knox secure boot or not having knox at all.
I'm sure they could have introduced jb 4.3 and kk 4.4 and any other updates without knox and knox secure boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bingo. Option is what it should be
Count on me
Throw me in the mix, can I go in twice? I have 2 notes dueces.
I'm in too.
Sent from my SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
So am I.
Tap, tap says the wicked Note +₩● ?
Kind of sad that ppl are complaining about knox secure boot and trip but no one is willing to step up and take samsung to court?
Come on guys.
This could also be the answer to removing the secure boot.
If noone steps up then samsung will continue to do this kind of crap.
In bit my Knox is tripped
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
[email protected] said:
I like Knox... I don't see what the big deal is. Lose the ability to root like Apple so devs have to pull a jailbreak every new version that comes out by vulnerability hunting? I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for me to root anymore. I have become the normal smartphone user who doesn't need more than what comes stock after all these years rooting and bug hunting. It is now a waste of time for me.
And you know what else?
There are millions of people who are just like me who could give a rat's ass about how Knox stops me from rooting my phone.
Before you go flaming, understand that I am talking about myself and the other millions who have no clue that XDA even exists. You can do what you need to feel better about yourself by gathering a class action lawsuit against a multi-billion corporation. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Cryingmoose said:
This post convinced me to join the lawsuit. That's you opinion and it'a fair,
However I like having choice, freedom, and ownership as a consumer. I don't like having updates remove and change features that I orginally paid for
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm In
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
KennyG123 said:
I am sorry but after reading this thread everyday I have to finally say something. You guys are trying to sue Samsung for adding security to your phone to prevent it from being easily hacked, your personal and banking information being stolen, unauthorized use, and not being able to root it and put unauthorized software on it? Got a little bit of news for you, you better start looking for some old phones on swappa and ebay because there are talks that Google is incorporating some of Knox into L OS version. Also Sprint and T-mobile have no issues rooting with the same version of Knox...so maybe you should be looking at what your carrier is doing.
And as for a 2 year old accepting the update, you had options to lock your phone with many different methods. This 2 year old accepted the option to first download it, wait while the file downloaded, then also accepted the option to install now? I do not think this lawyer has all the information. Especially when Google and Samsung on the devil's advocate side would face a much larger lawsuit if doing nothing to try and prevent the millions of non-XDA users from getting their phone hacked. Knox and locked bootloaders have nothing to do with trying to prevent the 100,000 XDA AT&T or Verizon Samsung users from rooting. It is to make the phones as secure as possible for military and business applications.
Here is sammobile's report on "L" and Knox: http://www.sammobile.com/2014/06/25...egrate-knox-into-androids-next-major-release/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
TerryMathews said:
There's a gulf of difference between a device being advertised with a feature and shipping with it and a mandatory update installing said feature.
The carriers didn't even disclose the ramifications of installing OTAs containing Knox.
I don't have an issue with updates changing features over time but something that alters your relationship with your property in such a fashion should be opt-in and after disclosing the ramifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
If I'm not mistaken, the Federal government (USA) guaranteed end users the right to root access of our phones, and recently upheld that law. But does Knox really stop you from rooting it? Luckily I have avoided it because I haven't had a stock ROM for more than a few minutes on my phone since I bought it
KennyG123 said:
At no point did Samsung or AT&T guarantee the rootability of a device. And remember, the other millions of owners don't know about these "ramifications" as I am sure they are happy to know that their phone is more secure. Windows updates your system constantly for security updates. If that suddenly stops a Pr0n site from showing up on your PC because it is now considered malicious should they have notified you? The updates do nothing to prevent the out of the box use intended by the device. I am merely stating that this suit has no legal grounds. If you know about rooting and know about hacking, you know not to accept updates until you find out what they are. You should know ways of preventing those updates, and you should know how to secure your phone from anyone using it to accept those updates without your permission. The other millions of users out there can keep moving along blissfully happy that their phone is constantly being updated and not left in the dust.
Why should the carriers disclose that your device be more difficult to root? Rooting is not an authorized procedure supported by the carriers at all! I missed the disclosure by Sony on my PS3 that accepting the update which will allow me to access the Playstation Network is also to prevent jailbreaking it on the current revision. Add to that, read the OP...it states nothing about the carrier. It is a suit directed at Samsung. Knox does not prevent any use of the device which is authorized and supported by the carrier. Also Knox does not prevent rooting as seen on T-Mobile and Sprint forums as well as the international forums.
But I wish you guys luck with the suit and hope the lawyer is accepting this Pro Bono and no one has to dish out any non-refundable legal fees. I just wanted you all to be better informed of what you are asking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
Honestly... there's no point in arguing. Whomever goes and does this lawsuit, have fun, good luck, and I hope no money comes out of your own pocket. Your XDA soap box will get you nowhere so go out and do what you have to do to get your rocks off. Even if you even do succeed, enjoy the years of counter-suits and appeals.
TerryMathews said:
There is a difference between guaranteeing a product's suitability for given task and actively working to reduce that capability.
For instance, let's look at car recalls. Some of them impact how your car behaves, its gas mileage, or its service schedule. Ever notice how the dealer needs your consent before modifying your vehicle?
Your example of Windows Update is equally flawed. Windows Update is an opt-in service which in fact reinforces my earlier point that Knox or system updates in general should be opt-in or at least have a provision for opt-out that doesn't involve rooting your device.
Court cases aren't decided on popularity. If they were, Roe v. Wade would have gone a very different direction (as an example).
I hope you're not a lawyer Kenny...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no further point in arguing with you as clearly you are not a lawyer either. No one mentioned popularity. Your arguments are misconstrued and have nothing to do with the focus of the lawsuit. You should reread the "opening statement" a 2 year old "accepted" the update meaning optional, not mandatory, and there are ways for anyone who can search to not accept the OTA or update.
Have a nice day and good luck. As I stated earlier, Knox is now moving to Google and the next version of Android and it also does not prevent rooting if you would just check out the other carriers. This is the main flaw in this law suit. Lawyered
As we know, Amazon never released an official way to unlock the bootloader on their devices.
I'm pretty sure a lot of their customers have requested the same thing over and over, but what i'm not sure of is if anyone got a response from their "customer help" like mine.
The other day, I sent my 2nd request regarding the bootloader unlock, kernel sources and "system_core" patches they'd released for Kindle Fire HD and HDX, the answer was being already a lot more interactive then my first response(props to that).
They replied saying that "Kernel source codes weren't available at this time", and that they had forwarded my suggestion to its developer team, but i noticed the employee forgot to mention the bootloader unlock part, which for me was of utter importance.
So again i contacted them, via the reply option we get when we send feedback, in order to continue the last question and asked about the bootloader unlock.
This is the full reply i got from them today:
Hello _____,
My name is Vijay, I'm with Fire Phone support.
I'm sorry that my colleague missed out on mentioning about bootloader unlock code for Fire Phone.
I have checked in our database and see that we haven't released bootloader unlock code for Fire Phones because our technical team is still working on developer version. We regret for any inconvenience this may have caused to you.
We realize how important bootloaders unlock code is to our developers. I'd like to inform you that we are also looking for developers who can help us to make our Fire Phone top notch.
Considering your comments, I have forwarded your request to Fire Phone development team for review.
Although, at this time, we do not have any information regarding unlock code, please be assured, we will definitely consider your customer comments as we work on improvements in Fire Phone space.
When we're ready to announce developer version, we'll definitely provide bootloader unlock code on our website. I'd like to thank you for bringing the need for this to our attention.
Thanks again for taking the time and sending us your valuable feedback.
We hope to see you again!!
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It was explicitly said that their technical team is working on a developer version of the phone and that they will, and i quote, DEFINITELY, provide bootloader unlock code on their website.
That is a really great response. Thanks amazon.
v6ser said:
As we know, Amazon never released an official way to unlock the bootloader on their devices.
I'm pretty sure a lot of their customers have requested the same thing over and over, but what i'm not sure of is if anyone got a response from their "customer help" like mine.
The other day, I sent my 2nd request regarding the bootloader unlock, kernel sources and "system_core" patches they'd released for Kindle Fire HD and HDX, the answer was being already a lot more interactive then my first response(props to that).
They replied saying that "Kernel source codes weren't available at this time", and that they had forwarded my suggestion to its developer team, but i noticed the employee forgot to mention the bootloader unlock part, which for me was of utter importance.
So again i contacted them, via the reply option we get when we send feedback, in order to continue the last question and asked about the bootloader unlock.
This is the full reply i got from them today:
It was explicitly said that their technical team is working on a developer version and that they will, and i quote, DEFINITELY, provide bootloader unlock code on their website.
That is a really great response, from a great company. Thanks Amazon, i knew you wouldn't fail me
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That is awesome news
This is fantastic! I'm guessing this would allow for better NFC support and maybe even a camera fix?
Vijay said:
...our technical team is still working on developer version ... When we're ready to announce developer version...
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I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Vijay said:
we are also looking for developers who can help us to make our Fire Phone top notch
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Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
Bingo Bronson said:
I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
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Maybe to you, but i'm not one to judge the entire company only for their mobile hardware department, which is a tiny one.
So i appreciate your thoughts but i do not share them.
Bingo Bronson said:
I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
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@v6ser, It is truly great news that they are thinking about unlocking the bootloader. Please keep in mind that not always will we agree with you and look at the emojis being used by posters. Bingo was just good naturedly disagreeing with you. Not everyone is a hater who disagrees
v6ser said:
Maybe to you, but i'm not one to judge the entire company only for their mobile hardware department, which is a tiny one.
So i appreciate your thoughts but i do not share them.
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Click to collapse
We can all appreciate each others thoughts but don't necessarily have to agree. :highfive: I think Amazon is a very good company but they did drop the ball with their FirePhone, OS, and closed it to developers. Hopefully they will cooperate and give them the tools they need to help us reap the benefits of their abilities!!! I know I sure can't but I appreciate the efforts of those who can
Thats great, and confusing...amazon seems to have a split personality when it comes to locking down some devices then apparently handing over the keys to others.
A phone is different than set top boxes and tablets I guess but I thought the idea of them taking a loss on the hardware was to lock people in the ecosystem and making money by selling books, games, apps, movies, any product imaginable with the amazon shopping app (which I hear is going to be incorporated into fire tv and stick.)
Not complaining at all obviously. Just wish I wouldve bought at least one more! Thanks for the good news.
KLit75 said:
Thats great, and confusing...amazon seems to have a split personality when it comes to locking down some devices then apparently handing over the keys to others.
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They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
The real shame is that the hardware is actually solid, but fire OS is a nightmare and shipping a device without the Google Play Store was just stupid since many apps are not in the Amazon store.
Moogagot said:
They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
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How does this make sense at all? The phone is discontinued, they gain nothing from unlocking the bootloader.
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
apxi84 said:
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
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They don't have any inventory left. They dumped it all to a third party seller on ebay now.
runderekrun said:
How does this make sense at all? The phone is discontinued, they gain nothing from unlocking the bootloader.
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apxi84 said:
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
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jpeg42 said:
They don't have any inventory left. They dumped it all to a third party seller on ebay now.
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1) they gain some goodwill on Fire devices (Fire TV, Fire tablets), whereas the Fire phone tarnished the brand name. Unlocking the bootloader, letting development happen salvages some of that.
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
This is my first visit to this forum. I just ordered a Fire Phone for $125 from who I believe to be a liquidator who received a quantity of stock to clear. The phone comes with an unlock code!
ChazzMatt said:
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
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Well how sneaky is that! I will gladly void my warranty for an unlocked bootloader So I agree with you there.:good:
Yes. Probably the guy that sold over 11,000 of them already. Its an amazing deal if youre planning on being a prime member regardless.
I dunno though about amazon making amends to the people who overpaid for this phone last summer. In my opinion, anyone that shelled out $650 for fire phone was not planning on doing any modifications to it. They were sold on the camera, firefly, prime etc. STILL, regardless of the reasoning, its great news about the bootloader being unlockable.
Kernel source/GPL
"Kernel source codes weren't available at this time"
Umm, wat? GPL? Isnt' this it here? Or are we talking about a different phone?
Moogagot said:
They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
The real shame is that the hardware is actually solid, but fire OS is a nightmare and shipping a device without the Google Play Store was just stupid since many apps are not in the Amazon store.
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Click to collapse
Well i can understand why they did that... It wasn't from what i have heard a great device
ChazzMatt said:
1) they gain some goodwill on Fire devices (Fire TV, Fire tablets), whereas the Fire phone tarnished the brand name. Unlocking the bootloader, letting development happen salvages some of that.
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
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Wishful thinking at its finest. Amazon doesn't care about "goodwill" when it comes to a dead device. They dumped stock and are trying to put the whole thing behind them. Why would they release something else to get a failed project's name back in the news? Specially when it is of 0 monetary value to them?
runderekrun said:
Wishful thinking at its finest. Amazon doesn't care about "goodwill" when it comes to a dead device. They dumped stock and are trying to put the whole thing behind them. Why would they release something else to get a failed project's name back in the news? Specially when it is of 0 monetary value to them?
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The question wasn't are they doing it. The question was why they sure doing it. And I answered the question. You are merely asking it again. Read my reply, again.
If you doubt this is happening, reply to the op, not to me. Because you're asking a question ("why") I've already answered quite well.
ChazzMatt said:
The question wasn't are they doing it. The question was why they sure doing it. And I answered the question. You are merely asking it again. Read my reply, again.
If you doubt this is happening, reply to the op, not to me. Because you're asking a question ("why") I've already answered quite well.
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I've reread this comment about 10 times I still have no idea what you are saying.
"The question was why they sure doing it." What???
As I was searching the Internet today I came across this! Can anyone verify it??
http://www.usoftsmartphone.com/t410056.html
For some reason I have my doubts about this. Not just that, but there is no link anywhere, just screenshots, which can be easily faked. This kind of thing happens in the gaming console arena all the time. People just do it for attention. Until a recognized developer we KNOW (on here preferrably......hsbadr????) can confirm this, Im going to rule it as fake.
chevycam94 said:
For some reason I have my doubts about this. Not just that, but there is no link anywhere, just screenshots, which can be easily faked. This kind of thing happens in the gaming console arena all the time. People just do it for attention. Until a recognized developer we KNOW (on here preferrably......hsbadr????) can confirm this, Im going to rule it as fake.
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Although, he has some petty good video of startup, reboot, and maintaining root...as well as showing root checker etc. so time will tell.
The guys a FRAUD. The XDA mods locked down his thread cause he was posting lies about permanent root which he willfully failed to show verity upon request. He is only looking for attention by means of "Thanks." pay him no attention. He's a troll. lol
Farse
This looks like a waste of time...delete.
So there is no reliable system yet to root the Note 4?
They way most of you have been treating and talking about this guy, if I were him and really did have the solution, I'd say "eff ya".
plainbum said:
They way most of you have been treating and talking about this guy, if I were him and really did have the solution, I'd say "eff ya".
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Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is so uppity. What's the harm in just being patient and having a "wait and see" attitude, instead of calling him a fraud and dropping the ban hammer just because he hasn't revealed details yet. Unless we know for certain that he hasn't achieved root, then I don't think we should push him away, even if we don't like his methods. Keep in mind that there is a language barrier here also, so there may be some misunderstanding.
He already said many times he wasn't going to release it. He said it would hurt his business and Samsung would patch it.
Which translates to I've found something that will work on many Samsung devices so if I release it I won't be able to use it to make money in my business, because having a solution for only the Verizon note 4 is not going to do his business much good as he is from outside US.
spocko said:
Agreed. I don't understand why everyone is so uppity. What's the harm in just being patient and having a "wait and see" attitude, instead of calling him a fraud and dropping the ban hammer just because he hasn't revealed details yet. Unless we know for certain that he hasn't achieved root, then I don't think we should push him away, even if we don't like his methods. Keep in mind that there is a language barrier here also, so there may be some misunderstanding.
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All you have to do is look at his past post. He did the same thing with an LG device. Posting he has achieved root when he had not. When the mods finally asked him to provide proof he declined to answer. When he's been contacted on his site, his number, etc, etc, he declines to answer the question and left the LG community it's in a complete disarray. We don't need people posting root achieved notices just to get their thanks scores higher. The Note 4 community it's has been thru enough already. And if it was going to hurt his business to release the method, then why release I've achieved root. No thanks, the guys a complete fraud.
I can appreciate that reasoning, thanks.
Here a genuine question, not trying to be argumentative:
How is this situation with vnmobile different than the video posted showing the Galaxy S5 bootloader unlock?
http://www.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5-bootloader-has-been-unlocked/
It appears that this dev (beaups) does not plan to release his methods either, yet he is not treated with the same disdain as vnmobile. Granted it appears that beaups has earned respect previously, but at the end of the day the same question remains: what is the purpose of sharing the video?
This guy definitely a fraud. His real name is Ngoc Vu and he's running a business selling tech equipments in Vietnam. Let me throw a few things on the table here.
1) Language barrier issue - Nope I speak his language and had visit his website and his facebood page. Just full of shi...
2)Hurt his business if he released the root fix? Another bull sh... 2 ways he could make money. a) release the fix and collect over 20k cash from XDA b) Offer a service to root the phone with a fee. Guess what? none existed.
Summary - he just want to drive traffic to his web site, and make his business more visible to the world specially XDA where everyone interested in cell phone/tablet and electronic equipments. Case closed!
i just saw this post. And i confirmed he is a Vietnamese guys. like me. ^^
But i am so surprise, because he used the Booloader and ROM from "hsbadr" of XDA forum.
- This is the post of HERO "hsbadr" (By hsbadr, Recognized Developer / Recognized Contributor on 13th August 2015, 10:46 PM) : http://forum.xda-developers.com/not...nt/firmware-safe-upgrade-to-lollipop-t3178148
------------------------AND this the post of the guy in Vietnam ^^ (it was 31-10-2015, 06:02 PM ) . in Asia country like Vietnam, the Day is first, then the Month. So his video was Oct 31,2015. After "hsbadr" released his tutorial. ^^ i wish i can upload photo for you guys.
http://vietfones.vn/forum/showthread.php?1047158
This: "N910VVRU2BOG5 - Android 5.0.1 : Fri, 31 Jul 2015" is f-u-c-king fake ^^
Pls Forgive him!!!