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android appears essentually a linux distro aimed at phones (maybe i am wrong?). is it possible to add a repository to the market? say for apps that are only ment for certain phones. What i mean to say is:
Could we have a repository for kaiser phones where apps are designed for or modified for kiaser?
Most apps run fine it seems to me, what exactly are you getting at?
chambo622 said:
Most apps run fine it seems to me, what exactly are you getting at?
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for example on debian. There is a normal repository where you can find all the free programs that the debian community recommend. However since the debian devs tend to be open source nazis (they only include things that are open source) people commonly add ubuntu repositories (where things are allowed that arnt open source, like flash10).
In relation to android:
while alot of the apps run great on my phone, many apps die or dont work at all. I have seen, on this forum, requests on this forum for certain apps, that dont work, to be ported. which leads me to believe that its possible to modify those programs available in market to work for our phones.
In conclusion:
I propose the idea of creating a server which would host the android programs that have been modified to work for certain phones. ex: kaiser. On my kaiser i could browse regular apps on the android market oooor check the kaiser repository for apps that are ment for kaiser and are therefor garunteed to work.
maybe its not possible, maybe its just a bad idea. But i thought i would throw the idea out there.
(please let me know if its still not clear. Im kinda hungover and only got a few hours sleep).
also if this is possible i would be willing to help out with programming the app and i may be able to get a server going for it. (although im new to java so i would definitly need help)
Rumors are flying that bluestacks will bring their newly touch-optimized app to RT, giving us access to Android Apps. Anyone else heard something similar?
Also, is there any equivalent we could get our hands on right now, like an open-source equivalent that could be ported? It seems ridiculous that to run native ARM apps on an ARM platform we need to port an ARM environment from x86 back to ARM again... there should be a simpler way. All pure speculation of course, but it seems like it should be possible. So, outside of a bluestacks port, how could Android apps be run on an RT device?
Install a Linux kernel and a Dalvik runtime... Seriously, do you realize how silly what you're asking for sounds?
"Why can't we run Linux apps on Windows? It's an x86 processor too..." (Note: Android is not all ARM.)
Stuff like Bluestacks is a huge, complicated project.
GoodDayToDie said:
Install a Linux kernel and a Dalvik runtime... Seriously, do you realize how silly what you're asking for sounds?
"Why can't we run Linux apps on Windows? It's an x86 processor too..." (Note: Android is not all ARM.)
Stuff like Bluestacks is a huge, complicated project.
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Seriously your a bore
rw6497 said:
Seriously your a bore
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He's not a bore, he's realistic. It's not his fault that people make outrageous requests all the time and expect them to be fulfilled. I find it quite irritating too, especially when people PM me and ask me again because it's been posted in a thread that it's not possible without an unreasonable amount of work (that we're not going to do on our spare time) and they don't like that answer.
You guys have to remember, we're doing this for free. We're not obligated to port every single program you guys throw at us. If you don't like that, learn how to port them yourselves.
I don't want to spawn an argument...
I'm not asking anything from anyone, I'm just curious about some rumors and inquisitive about possibilities. I'm not all "OMG! netham45! Can u plz make this run android!? And then iOS! And PlayStation games!" I respect netham45 a ton and think his work is amazing.
I'm just opening discussion here.
For comparison, consider the Wine project: well over a decade of development (much longer than Android has even existed) to have an open-source tool that can run many x86 Windows apps on x86 Linux. Or consider Cygwin, which can't even run x86 Linux apps on x86 Windows; they must be recompiled for Cygwin first. Expecting that some equivalent program to run ARM Dalvik/Linux apps on ARM Windows would have just popped out of the woodwork in a usable state - even as usable as Wine, which is nowhere near 100% app compatibility yet - is quite unrealistic.
jtg007 said:
It seems ridiculous that to run native ARM apps on an ARM platform we need to port an ARM environment from x86 back to ARM again...
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Bluestacks involves ZERO emulation of ARM. Android apps are run inside the dalvik virtual machine (itself a register based version of the java virtual machine). To run an android app just needs a DVM and its class library: bluestacks pretty much does this. Android native code apps do then get complicated yes but then the android NDK has a rather convenient feature that bluestacks can exploit.
NDK compiles native binaries for both x86 and ARMv7 by default (note default, you can over-ride which platforms it compiles for, I believe ARMv6, ARMv6hf, ARMv7, MIPS and x86_32 are available options although I am not 100% sure on the exact arm versions so might be wrong). Bluestacks is only running on x86 and x86_64 machines. x86_64 machines can safely run x86_32 code. So really bluestacks when it encounters a native app "just" has to run the x86 binary the NDK produces on windows/mac with a compatibility layer. Still a complex job of course.
Bluestacks on windows RT could actually take the same shortcut bluestacks on windows and OSX takes in regards to native code, just with the ARM binaries running in a compatibility layer instead of the x86 binaries.
Bluestacks still has to mess about a bit exposing hardware to "android" correctly and handling a few extra bits and pieces but generally it works rather well and in theory could work on windows RT. However in practise it might have some speed sacrifices which will become much more apparent seeming as the guts of most windows RT devices are also the guts of android devices, now you've introduced slowdowns and the RT device will be slower than if it just ran android in the first place, might not be an issue on some less intensive apps but something like shadowgun would probably have noticeable slowdowns. Also I doubt a company like that behind bluestacks wants to develop for jailbroken devices, microsoft certainly wouldnt give permission for something along the same lines to be included on the windows store. The other major issue is OpenGL ES. Non existant on windows RT, bluestacks I believe converts OpenGL ES calls to full OpenGL. We dont have that either. We have directX or software. In theory you could convert the OpenGL ES calls to directX, certainly not impossible, but would certainly be alot of work.
TL;DR. Its theoretically possible to have android apps running on windows RT. There are too many issues to make it viable at this moment in time.
Future updates to what microsoft does and doesn't allow on RT (OpenGLES I'm looking at you) and knowledge/hacks (GLES>DX?) gained as more people take a poke at it might help nudge a dalvik VM on RT in the right direction in future though.
I wonder how relevant this is
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2018...tility-to-run-android-apps-on-windows-rt.html
Interesting, but too early to call "relevant", I think. That article is over two months old; has anybody heard anything since? It's possible that the project is being worked on internally already and will be available soon, but don't count on it.
That said, we now have three ways to get software onto RT:
1. The Windows Store. Official, easy, and can be monetized, but requires Microsoft approval, must run in Metro, and restricts available APIs.
2. Sideloaded Metro app. Semi-official (no hacks needed) but requires going through the (fairly simple and free) process of equipping your device with a developer license. Still runs in Metro and the AppContainer sandbox, but you can somewhat ignore Microsoft's approval process and use any API that is reachable.
3. ARM-compiled desktop app. Requires a jailbroken device, which MS could later try to block, but for now it's easy. No API or sandbox restrictions, aside from the lack of certain features (like OpenGL) on RT.
I wonder which one Bluestacks would choose? #1 is the most beneficial to them, if they can do it, and if MS rejects it they could always go with #2 as a fallback. #3 is the easiest for them, most likely, but carries the most risk. There's also, of course, item #4: forget RT, and keep going with x86 Windows and OS X, where all the customers are.
I dont think they would actually have to go as far as option 3. ModernUI would probably be more than enough for bluestacks.
I wonder if microsoft would try and prevent bluestacks from the marketplace. I guess as far as they are concerned it might improve the image of their devices if they can run android apps too (minimizing costs of migration to RT from android for enterprise customers too, although it seems ipad's took off mostly in enterprise).
I'm simply inquiring about how to make a x86 application into an ARM compatible application. I've acquired the source code of an old game, Lugaru, just to practice this. What would I need to start off with doing? I'm having trouble uploading, so you can download the source here: "https://code.google.com/p/lugaru/downloads/list". I have no experience in C or C++, only Java.
Just compiling for ARM doesn't mean it will run in the WinRT environment. Theoretically, getting it to compile on ARM and run in desktop mode on a jailbroken RT device would be trivial. On mobile here so I can't view the source easily, bit depending on how it's written, it will likely require porting from Java to C++ or C# and rewriting the graphics in DirectX. You're better off taking a few Windows 8 Dev tutorials first, honestly.
OK. First of all: there's already a thread about this. In fact, I think there's a couple. They've been inactive for a while, so you'll need to find them with search, but check the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum for "porting apps" and you should get multiple hits.
Second: I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
GoodDayToDie said:
I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
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I wasn't thinking it would be easy, I was wondering if it was possible. Thank you for the information, it was very helpful. I was not aware that CMake could produce Visual Studio project files. That may make this a little easier. CMake does not target Win32/ARM at all like you thought, so I may ask another couple of questions while playing around with the config. Will I have to port it to DX11?
I think anything DX9 or later actually works. If the code already target OGL (instead of just targeting SDL and using whatever SDL's preferred back-end on that platform is) then you could try re-writing it in D3D/D2D, or using the OGL-to-DX wrapper I mentioned.
GoodDayToDie said:
OK. First of all: there's already a thread about this. In fact, I think there's a couple. They've been inactive for a while, so you'll need to find them with search, but check the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum for "porting apps" and you should get multiple hits.
Second: I think Lugaru was looked at before. It's possible, but it won't be easy. The build system it uses (CMake) does not, so far as I know, target Win32/ARM yet, so that will either require some manual building or some tweaking of the configuration. It *should* compile under MSVC, though; in fact, I think CMake can produce Visual Studio project files. Using one of those project files, just change the target platform from x86 (Win32) to ARM (you'll probably have to add it).
Lugaru has a lot of dependencies. We've already ported some of them, like the SDL and OGG/Vorbis. Others may need to be ported.
One problem often encountered with porting games is that Windows RT lacks an OpenGL driver. Games written against DirectX will probably work, although the compatibility layer code for older DX versions is missing. There is an OGL->DX conversion/wrapper library which can support many OGL programs (at some performance cost) but I don't know how practical it is to compile against it; never tried. Links to ported libraries are in the "ported apps" thread in my signature.
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Actually CMake can target MSVC/ARM. Please check ReactOS's source code. I tried to build an ARM version before so I know that will work.
Can it now? Well, that's handy. Thanks for the tip! Can't test this for a while, but if anybody wants to give it a shot before I have time let us all know how it goes!
i find that i prefer using my nst more & more.. in fact, my swanky but gas-guzzling tablet has been all but discarded, except for watching movies in bed.
i am going to find open-source apps, and recompile the latest sources specifically for android 2.1 eclair, as i find that most devs and google market are removing eclair from their horizons. i am particularly interested in small-sized efficient apps. i do use quite a lot of them, but mostly very old versions.
for this purpose, i want to setup a eclair-dedicated dev environment. i am happy to share all apps that i compile & use myself. hopefully, many others might find useful too.
where i need your help is with advice on how best to setup a tiny/efficient (not bloatware) dev environment, bearing in mind that it will only be used to recompile apks for eclair on b&w eink. i notice that some of you are very efficient in creating extremely small apk, and this is what i want to do.
platform:
on my debian wheezy host, i installed virtual box and created a debian wheezy minimal guest. virtualbox guest additions has significantly altered my perception of virtualbox. i had been using kvm previously.
pre-requisites:
install openjdk-7-jdk
dev environment:
google lists android studio as the only official one. it is huge, bulky, cumbersome bloatware imho. i think this is targetted at the new kids on the block not used to terminal environments. but this seems to be my only option for now, till i hear from you lot of some simpler dev tools.
my requirement is very simple, all i need to do is, change some code somewhere and compile.
so i downloaded android studio, and unpacked it in a directory reserved for my android development. loading it is like watching windows booting up! and then it downloads android sdk, which is another huge bloatware, particularly since it insists on downloading all the crap-lollipop-ware which i have no intention of using.
so my dev environment is almost ready! if anyone has suggestions or tips, or want more detailed instructions/commands, please comment..
Don't forget that the NST only runs 2.1 Éclair apps, as its OS is 2.1 Éclair.
This sounds like a great project - I also prefer my NTG (in fact, I'm on it right now!).
veloo said:
for this purpose, i want to setup a froyo-dedicated dev environment.
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Check requirements for compiling Eclair/Froyo itself, SDK version doesn't matter since it supports all API versions.
Personally I'd use a virtual machine with oldest supported 32-bit *buntu release- better chance that required packages versions will be present in official repos.
EDIT:
This may help, discussion was related to kernel compilation however there should be link to quick tutorial about CM6 (Froyo) compilation- http://forum.samdroid.net/f28/setup-kernel-build-environment-using-virtualbox-windows-7-64-bit-4007/ (sorry if 10-sec advertisement pops up)
thanks folks.. my bad! indeed it is eclair, and not froyo. i have updated my op above.
gen_scheisskopf said:
EDIT:
This may help, discussion was related to kernel compilation however there should be link to quick tutorial about CM6 (Froyo) compilation- http://forum.samdroid.net/f28/setup-kernel-build-environment-using-virtualbox-windows-7-64-bit-4007/ (sorry if 10-sec advertisement pops up)
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that discussion seems to be about iphone development
veloo said:
that discussion seems to be about iphone development
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Nope, it's for Samsung i5700 Spica (latest official firmware- 2.1)
all that talk about crosstool toolchain arm-iphone-linux-gnueabi got me confused.. sorry!
No problem. Back then we had to use whatever was available and compiling Crosstool-NG was easier option than to get precompiled Android toolchain.
Anyway check links in the thread, there were tutorials about compiling Froyo from scratch (note: samdroid's wiki is down) and IIRC Eclair had about the same requirements
thx but my objective atmo is not compiling froyo or eclair or any roms. it is purely to compile apps for use on the nook.
I'm aware of that. IMO link provided can help you in preparation of build environment
At work I use Android Studio to build apps, but at home I still just use Notepad++, the Windows tools in the Android SDK and the (ancient) Borland make.
I probably will migrate to Android Studio at home eventually.
Still, coding by hand you learn a lot about things.
In the old days for text editing very large data files I used VE & Vedit plus the old Norton commander file manager, I could select any sort of columns within a text file in VE, hex, plus grep commands. Or ms-word macros with VB APIs if needed too. But these were for huge files from publishers. For most things though I had been using Notepad++ or UltraEdit for years. In recent past I hardly use them, instead I use Sublime Text Editor for almost everything, I like the recent portable version which launches fast. Also if I'm debugging live with breakpoints & watches & changing code in PhpStorm, the open instance of Sublime updates code as I work in PhpStorm. I tried a few modern text editors in the same league which supposedly have bested Sublime, but I keep going back to it for most coding or text. Apart from php and various text formats, Sublime handles & color codes for other types too like html, JavaScript etc. Interesting discussion on modern text/code editors & IDEs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-TalfLFas
Hey a nice effort to build apps optimized for Nook Simple Touch.
Renate, Marspeople, have already created some nifty apps for our device.
How about you update the OP with links to their apps(with due credit to them and express permission for the same) besides sharing your own collection of NST optimised apps ?
I'm totally noob at this, My little dream it's develope a clock app for the nook but I'm stuck in "hello world" when I try to compile my app in Android Sudio 2.1.3 it throws this error: "uses-sdk:minSdkVersion 7 cannot be smaller than version 9 declared in library" Can somebody help me?
I
Use SDK suite ver. 9 and higher or declare in library, that you're using ver.7.
Necropost, I know, but do you hhave links to posts by the people mentioned, with the apps they've developed?
aiamuzz said:
Hey a nice effort to build apps optimized for Nook Simple Touch.
Renate, Marspeople, have already created some nifty apps for our device.
How about you update the OP with links to their apps(with due credit to them and express permission for the same) besides sharing your own collection of NST optimised apps ?
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Don't want to be racist but, trough google almost no documentation, and on YouTube there are only Indians showing it, some are old videos about this Limbo emulator, run GTA4, and to be fair considering that latest Snapdragon is powerfull it doesn't look much unrealistic.
What I'm looking for is Basically a windows version targeted at arm devices; I can kinda go my way into the Linux kernel, afaik: recompile the kernel with KVM to have a virtual machines, I'm wondering if there is an easier solution, or a faster approach, maybe it's worthless and nothing works/boots;
Has anyone tried? Regards.
Hi,
The only project I know of is the following :
Renegade Project
Main Page
renegade-project.tech