Hey guys,
just some thoughts on our beloved device.
Seems this christmas a lot of users are just switching to a newer device. It is a subjecive observation for sure, but as I started following the forums this summer (meaning 2012) and finally gathered enough "self-esteem" to "hack" my defy+ and flash a non-official software I noticed it is getting really silent on the forums right now. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Could be that this device just isn't able to catch up with all the official updates. I mean, everything after 2.3.6 was only possible through the help of voluntary developers. It is a miracle to have the latest versions of Android on this phone. And if you think about it (not aiming to reduse the effort of the community) it was mainly because of the leading (and voluntary) example of Quarx.
It is just how it goes. Now, a lot of users, being driven by their inhabited impulse of jelaousy just switch to a younger device. The media promotes it. The companies pay for it. My question is: why? I bought this device (defy+) in winter 2011 (one year ago). And advertising tells me it is time to get a new one? Are you nuts? I like things that pay out. This must be a joke. It is already a "outdated device"? Only because Motorola itself doesn't want to give an update? I am convinced, that if we the users don't change our attitude, then companies can play with us as if we were puppets until we die. But is the technique really outdated? Why do we need an upgrade? To get faster downloads at the bus stop? To get a faster connection at work (although there are already to pcs, that we could use). What are we practically using these new devices for? Is there such a big need to pay for these upgrades that advertising suggests if we don't really have a use for them?
The main thing, they are usefull for is communication. And do we really need the newest hardware for that? The defy is very capable of dealing with our needs! And for the software there might be an even better choice than sticking to Google's.
With seeing that developement of alternative software for the defy is diminishing, I would like to point to the developers that spend so much effort on this device to just take a break and then go into the developement of the Firefox OS with at least the same or even bigger ambition that you have put to Google's crap (Google still crap btw, we do not really know and can't really expect what they are working for to achieve but humanitarian goals aren't it).
Thanks for your contribution, I owe you a lot.
4cidj4y said:
Google still crap btw, we do not really know and can't really expect what they are working for to achieve but humanitarian goals aren't it
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Oh, man, how much do I agree on this! Very much!
Anyhows... I do agree with you, brother and I both bought DEFY's last winter and I don't see an ACTUAL reason to replace it... Yes, I would love a bigger screen, better camera, faster CPU, more RAM... But the truth is I don't need any of those, as the DEFY does everything I need. Texting, surfing, gaming, multimedia... I'm not going to change it soon. And I do hope developers will stick with it for a little while longer
Cheers, buddy!
I traded an iPhone 4S with a gentleman from Kijiji for his Galaxy S3, around the time when the iPhone 5 was announced. Myself being an Apple fanboy since iPhone came out way back in 2007, and since the original 2G model I had since slaved to buy each model every release up to and including the 4S. Upon 5's announcement and press conference, I was underwhelmed, and decided it was time to jump ship, having in my opinion seen Apple beginning its fall from the top. Enter the Galaxy S3.
First thing I did when I finished my routine battery maintenance (this phone was brand new in a sealed box, and the guy traded me for my almost year old 4S.. what a steal!) was try to remember what my username/password was to XDA to see what cool stuff I could do - having an ancient HTC Touch I knew of the community and how awesome it was. My first, and possibly most difficult step was understanding terminology and what advantages of "Rooting" was. After a few weeks of reading and one exchange to Rogers after I bricked my phone (high five for pretending to be an idiot!), I finally felt comfortable with using Odin and the tools. I had no idea what this "Recovery" was, or what CWM was at the time, so a few stupid questions later I figured out how powerful (read: dangerous to idiots like myself) the recovery system was. After a few accidental wipes and another near-brick incident, I grew confident in using CWM Recovery. Time to start flashing ROMs and having fun!
A lengthy stint with a few of the Android ROMs, notably Intergalatic, BlackJelly, while both awesome ROMs, I eventually found that it was a lot of fluff and stuff I didn't need in a phone. Nothing against the ROM developers, they made/make an excellent product, but for me, I wanted something simple, basic.. hey look! over there! It's TASK650! Wow, what a smooth and stable ROM. While it was a rude awakening entering his threads and seeing such a significant amount of hate towards newbs asking questions already answered 10 times over, and receiving hate messages from members who wont be named for myself asking similar questions, I eventually grew to understand and enjoy the ROM for the majority of the time I've had the device.
A few times I dabbled in Paranoid variations, KANG and non-KANG, and even tested out a few of the other Original ASOP ROM's, but significant bugs unrelated to the development teams themselves had me growing more and more frustrated with the device to the point where I was contemplating switching devices all together, or returning to stock.
Well, this morning, March 26th 2013, I decided to go back. After about 3 hours of work, and over-confidence in my abilities to flash back to stock causing a few repeated steps, I managed to get back to stock, rooted, and debloated. I couldn't be happier at the time being. The device does what I want, the battery life is so far pretty damn good, almost on par with ktoonsez's Kernel settings (but still less).
What was the point of this post?
I'm not entirely sure to be honest. I wanted the community to know the story of a former Apple Fanboy. I also wanted everyone new here know that there are a significant amount of over-talented developers here doing awesome work aimed at their own niche group of people. I believe I personally gave every developer and ROM group a fair shot, and I wanted to thank each and everyone mentioned above and any other members who assisted me in my noobish misadventures. I also wanted to get the non-developers in this wonderful community to understand that it's OK being stock, but it's also OK to flash whatever ROM you want, ask your questions, read your FAQs and use Search - it's there for a reason.
Always good to try different platforms. I have done the android, ios and back to android thing. Been tooling around with my iPhone 4 lately as my son is getting it (20 months old) to play learning games on.
I was actually surprised that it still hauls pretty good arse in apps and games
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
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I think your statement of "I haven't really felt the need to use a custom Rom..." is very telling. We also get monthly updates without jumping through hoops and we have feature sets we all like. Also Google Pay is being used more and more and you need to unlock the bootloader which breaks GP. I mean you can do kernel mods to enable it but it's just not worth it. What would you like that you don't currently have? I can name a few things like modifying location of the clock, changing vibration, things like that. But is it worth not having security updates or hoping the rom dev will update the rom? And then asking for an ETA and getting hammered by users for asking. It's just not worth it and devs have moved on to other money making ventures. Begging for donations doesn't pay the rent.
Bottom line, it's not worth it for rom devs and thus we have just a few. Flashing is not as easy as it used to be with dual slots. I remember just flashing each file and vendor and done. Bootloop, no prob just reflash the image. Not anymore. Now it's "omg your rom bricked my phone". Last thing.. we all have things to do now whereas we were young and stupid years back. Just give me a nice display, good battery, some options, and I'm good. Just some random thoughs.. agree or disagree but simply observations on my part.
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of.
I'm guessing we'll see more builds sooner rather than later since 10 just got officially released earlier in the month(plus TWRP isn't available for 10 yet - not that that would stop fastboot flashable ROMs from being built). Also the upcoming release of the pixel 4 should drop prices on the 3aXl which means more people will pick up this device and more ROMs will(most likely) be built. *That's my theory at least...I've seen other devices' development happen that way in the past so that's where I'm coming from.
I also think a combination of factors has slowed development in general across the board: less people buy new phones as often now(our phone is less than 6 months old), and stock android has gotten to the point that just rooting and minor tweaking is good enough for a lot of people. Not me personally - I always use custom ROMs - but for some others all they need is slightly tweaked stock, some theme-ing ability, and a few root apps like adaway or root browser to stay happy.
But anyway, big thanks to those who are building for our device. Y'all have skills that I do not have - which are much appreciated by me & many others.
And that was kind of what I thought... The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Time will tell as this community moves into 10 development, but I'm guessing things will pick up a bit. Hang in there:good:
Bob nesta said:
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of..
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For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
ctfrommn said:
For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
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Oh, not for 10. I was referring to pie. I'm pretty sure some of those pie ROMs slowed development down in anticipation for 10, so it's just a slow time right now.
It's cool... I understand a lot of work goes into building, so when/if they come - they come.
One question - does the a/b partitioning and lack of recovery partition make building harder or easier? (This is my first a/b device...just wondering.)
*And thanks for your hard work; I've been lurking on your kernel thread and see how much you've been refining it. Looking forward to your ROM whenever it drops. :good:
Never owned or dev'd for an a/b device except Marlin (Pixel 1) and that was pretty different from this I believe. Lack of recovery only affects how we flash it. The biggest issue right now is getting all the needed vendor/device stuff for it to boot and run right. No idea why this is never fully included with AOSP + posted binaries but it isnt.
The kernel (as always) is much simpler than a full Rom. Im still trying to get my head fully around the nuances for building a Rom for this. Rest assured they will come. Im definitely going to be spending more time on that side now.
---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------
acejavelin said:
The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking.
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Most people that bought the Pixels had little need for a custom Rom. This will change I think with the lower cost of the "a" line. So many people jumped off the Google phone train when the Nexus died and the cost was simply higher than they/I/we wanted to spend for a phone. The "a" line is a lot of what the Nexus line was so I would guess this will bring many back, though OP has done a good job taking and keeping most of them.
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
The regular 3 has been out a lot longer and development is mature. I also cant say Im definitively right either of course and I 100% agree OP has taken most of the low budget enthusiasts over to their side, especially outside the US.
Either way, it makes no nevermind to me. I will always build for the device I own and choose the device I own very carefully. There will be at least Velocity for the 3a XL its just a matter of how long it takes to get it up and running.
And yes, the lack of activity in this forum is almost shocking to me but last I was here with any regularity was in the Nexus 4/Nexus 5 days which was the wild west of Android development.
Let's not forget to mention the constant free advertising xda does for oneplus as well; that definitely helps their cause.
*And I'll admit it - I fell for it myself: bought a oneplus 7 pro, found that I hate curved displays, and returned it the next day - but the hype on xda fooled me for sure. The 7t pro looks nice, but I'm good - I'm hanging in with my bonito and seeing where things go.
krabman said:
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
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Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
It doesn't surprise me because I, too, am finding myself comfortable with stock and avoiding all the inconveniences (mainly the merry-go-round of breaking things that check for root)... the only thing I really miss is being able to block ads and titanium backup. But it just isn't bothering me enough to care...
Golf c said:
Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
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I owned the 3XL and didn't find it far superior. In fact I took it back and got a 6T while I waited for the next thing. Mainly it was the notch, and redraws in the GUI. In any event I only meant to refer to the regular 3XL or by extension any Pixel.
I guess if I paid @$300-400usd more for a device that has a smaller battery, with the same camera hardware(rear - don't care about the selfie cam), no headphone jack, and had a hideous notch so the OEM can claim "small bezels" - I may also be bitter & lurking in other devices' threads & talking smack(so I could feel better about my purchase...?)
Enjoy your 3xl and your notch... I guess. Congrats. :good:
Anytime you want to contribute to the 3axl community you are totally welcome to. No bitterness here. Otherwise...please go back to your "far superior" 3xl land please. We are not good enough for you here.
Take care.
*Bows down to the "far superior" 3xl owner*:angel:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
krabman said:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
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You mean bezzels right not coffee tables. Hahaha
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
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Well, I personally have stopped using custom ROMs after switching to a Pixel. Before this, I always was eager to install AOSP-based ROMs on my previous devices (Samsung and LG).
But especially LG is a disappointment software-wise: My LG G5 had a very good battery runtime with the initial ROM, but future updates killed this. Not to speak of non-existing updates and even security patches. My Samsungs were just awful from the start, they were immediately in dire need of AOSP.
On top, updating vendor images always was a PITA.. On my G5, I always had to do a clean flash, get rid of the bloat, flash the GApps etc.
But the Pixels are different. They also can have a bug here and there, but nothing severe. Battery runtime stays good with updates, and security patches always are on time. Updates are easy even when you are rooted.
Hence I just rooted my Pixel 3a XL and called it a day. Since Android 10 with its dark mode, I can even skip Substratum. YMMV of course, but this is how I see it.
I only root for system-wide adblock and HEBF Optimizer. Everything else is stock.
Custom Roms arent all (or even mostly) about features. There is so much more performance (and efficiency) to be had by building vs stock. Development will break loose soon enough. And when it does, then we will see what this device is truly capable of.
People, I just returned to the Samsung "fold" after a hiatus of several years. It's a Note 10+ 5G, with T-Mobile. While the improvement from my previous LG (AT&T) phone and experience is absolute (T-Mobile has turned out to be a wonderful surprise), what I was really hoping for was, among other things, the flexibility of rooting which I had with all of my previous Samsung phones. In fact, I had come to almost rely on rooting for some very simple reasons: to keep Google, Samsung and whatever other providers of hardware and software from becoming my life's "partners" within my phone! A simple example is Google's need to know my bodily functions, my contacts and my schedule even though all of that is well handled by other, non-Google systems. If I choose not to share my life with Google, the phone continues to function as required. But it (and Samsung, for that matter) keeps trying. I am reasonably proficient with ADB and use the work arounds with some success but it is annoying. Again, I am not out to subvert any system; I simply don't want to share my life with the hardware and software providers, at least, no more than is needed. My phone is unlocked. Is there any hope of getting root for the non-exynos version of this phone?
EBRJR said:
People, I just returned to the Samsung "fold" after a hiatus of several years. It's a Note 10+ 5G, with T-Mobile. While the improvement from my previous LG (AT&T) phone and experience is absolute (T-Mobile has turned out to be a wonderful surprise), what I was really hoping for was, among other things, the flexibility of rooting which I had with all of my previous Samsung phones. In fact, I had come to almost rely on rooting for some very simple reasons: to keep Google, Samsung and whatever other providers of hardware and software from becoming my life's "partners" within my phone! A simple example is Google's need to know my bodily functions, my contacts and my schedule even though all of that is well handled by other, non-Google systems. If I choose not to share my life with Google, the phone continues to function as required. But it (and Samsung, for that matter) keeps trying. I am reasonably proficient with ADB and use the work arounds with some success but it is annoying. Again, I am not out to subvert any system; I simply don't want to share my life with the hardware and software providers, at least, no more than is needed. My phone is unlocked. Is there any hope of getting root for the non-exynos version of this phone?
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Taking the time you look on the forum would have answered your question. One thread in particular has a pretty active discussion (including from one rather knowledgeable person).
The summary of the whole "if this phone will have root" is basically this.. Samsung got it's act together with this phone. Will root be possible... Someday maybe, but not anytime soon.
scottusa2008 said:
Taking the time you look on the forum would have answered your question. One thread in particular has a pretty active discussion (including from one rather knowledgeable person).
The summary of the whole "if this phone will have root" is basically this.. Samsung got it's act together with this phone. Will root be possible... Someday maybe, but not anytime soon.
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I appreciate the admonishment about "taking the time" and I actually considered that I had. Unfortunately, my limited reading here and elsewhere resulted in the same conclusion that you reached, minus the aspirational portion! I guess I was hoping that, indeed, my reviews were truly insufficient and missing some obvious and positive answer.
Well, I got my answer! Much appreciated.
I've used the stock rom (android 10) which came on the device, and the Malaysk is what i'm currently running (not paid for as I don't agree with forced payments for roms!) and it is still very laggy and stuff doesn't seem to work.
I've not updated for about 9 months, is there any new roms available (presuming we're talking stock roms since there only seems to be two russian guys making these roms and Hal9k still only has his old Android 9 rom)
How does the Hal9k android 9 rom compare? is it better performance/less bugs etc? compared to stock 10/Malaysk ?
Thanks in advance.
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
entirely not the point, but thanks for your input.
pakoner said:
if you don't agree to pay someone else's work, keep the original rom
or make one yourself free for all
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I see this reply used alot; the comment avoids the OPs comments entirely and the issues around these paid roms, including things like lack of support and the fact that they do not contribute to the advancement of the forums.
Try commenting on topic, addressing the points raised instead of confirming biases.
The fact is they take others work, modify the stock rom and then charge for it.
Coming back on topic, there's generally no need for these modified roms, as the mods/issues they address are no longer an issue (e.g. use a USB OBD), or issues such as speed dependant volume, can be found in launchers or installable apps.
Well there is if people have an older rom unit and want to upgrade it with a more up to date rom with fewer bugs and more inbuilt options.
That said, newer options and features worth having are still few and far between. It seems only car manufactures are able to develop their own units with features that work which do address peoples needs.
For anyone with an older car or a car lacking a good head unit, people have few options. Of course its a far cry from tape players and a readers digest atlas. But once purchased these universal units have so little support or upgrade options people are very much at the mercy of independent developers.
Thankfully these few people are willing to share their knowledge and skill for all. While they might only tinker with what came before, their upgrades and developments are still at their own pace - and thats their choice. If they charge a few quid for some of it then so what. Be gratefull we have them still at all.
Because what really is a shame is that there are now too few skilled developers like them. And that IS the problem. A few years ago developers for phone roms were ten a penny with good healthy competition and a huge influx of ideas and knowledge.
Sadly there are more and more people today with such skills only interested in developing for cash rewards by advertisers on the back of malware or worthless apps.
Those few that do try to help such as those here in the forums, even if they make a charge, do make some progress and share with all. Remember they are also constrained and rely heavily on far more restrictive and less supportive google tools these days than they were.
The real shame is there just isn't enough of them.