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Earlier this week we told you guys that Windows Mobile 6.5 was going to stick around after Windows Phone 7 hits the masses. It would even take on a new name — Windows Phone Classic. With everyone sticking around and playing nice at this party, you’d think that maybe current WinMo 6.5 handsets might get a little Windows Phone 7 love. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Microsoft Mobile Communications Business Director Aaron Woodman told CNET Asia, “I don’t know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.” It sounds like your average Microsoft move: if you want the new software, you’ll also have to get new hardware because your old junk just isn’t gonna cut it, baby.
The new handsets are getting primo parts such as Qualcomm’s 1GHz Snapdragon processor (no Tegra, sorry). WinPho 7, being a fresh OS and more intensive than its predecessors, will undoubtedly need hardware resources that most 6.5 devices just don’t have, but don’t fret. Unlike everyone staying on Windows XP when Vista came out, upgrading to WinPho 7 out of WinMo 6.5 is definitely a move in the right direction. WinMo 6.5 is going to stick around for enterprise and developing countries, so unless you’re tied to the OS for those reasons, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind ditching your current 6.5 handset for a shiny new WinPho 7 device when it comes out.
Q&A: Microsoft on Windows Phone 7 Series
CNET Asia
BARCELONA--You didn't hear? Microsoft has at long last announced the Windows Phone 7 Series at Mobile World Congress. Forget whatever impressions you have of the current Windows Mobile operating system as the new 7 Series is unlike anything we've seen. The user interface has been completely reworked to feature live tiles, panoramic screens and enhanced gaming and music experiences. Microsoft knew it had to deliver something with pow at the annual mobile tradeshow, and it did deliver. While the first devices aren't expected until the year-end holiday season, there's still a lot to know about the new software.
The new Windows Phone 7 Series interface looks nothing like its predecessors'.
We sat down with the director of Mobile Communications Business, Aaron Woodman, the general manager for Asia in the Mobile Communications Business, Natasha Kwan, and the head of Mobile Services, Manish Ladha, to discuss everything, from the software to hardware and services.
Windows Phone 7 Series
What is the Windows Phone 7 Series and is there a particular significance with the number 7 or the new naming convention? Do you think the new name will confuse users?
Woodman: There were four big pieces of news yesterday [Monday]. The biggest was Windows Phone 7 Series and all the changes in the product around smart designs, integrated experiences and the Windows Phone hubs. The second was we brought Xbox Live and Zune to Windows Phone for the first time and we will take that internationally. The third was about a specific set of partners, mobile operators and OEMs that have committed to be early launch partners. The last piece of news was on the Q4 holiday time frame launch in time for the seasonal push.
We started changing the brand strategy with Windows Mobile (WM) 6.5. We announced the new brand as Windows Phone and the OS will remain consistent in terms of naming structure, which is Windows Mobile 6.5. That actually was significant for us because it was really the first time we wanted to market software directly to consumers. So we started Windows Phone and we really shipped two products--MyPhone and Windows Marketplace--which helped us start to have a direct relationship with the customer. That was a big step because prior to that, we simply shipped the operating system, while the OEMs and mobile operators had a relationship with the customer. So WM6.5 was a very small incremental step to start that process.
Windows Phone 7 Series is us front center trying to interact with the customers to solve their needs and ultimately taking accountability. I don't think it's confusing. I think it's a change. There are a lot of changes and this is just one of many. In terms of 7, there is no particular significance around 7. There is particular emphasis on Series knowing that we're going to have a selection of phones running a single version of the product.
What took Microsoft so long to publicly announce Windows Phone 7 Series?
Aaron Woodman: I don't know whether I would say it took us so long to announce it. We started to see a pretty significant change in the market place three or four years ago and that was driven by three things. The first was customer expectations. Customers have changed pretty dramatically over the last few years. If you looked at the prices of phones and data plans in the late 1990s and early 2000s, it was the businesses that could afford those. There wasn't a lot of end-consumers out there and usage of the product.
The second was technology--what was fundamentally possible on the device and at what price points. We started to see processors, chipsets and price points of data plans come down pretty dramatically. The third was competition. There are two types of competitors. Vertical competitors are people who have the ability to achieve quality entirely because they have the software and can achieve economies of scale to drive down component prices. And also people integrating data.
These three things came together at a time which brought a lot of emphasis on how we had to change to be competitive. That change started over two years ago with a shift in leadership. The result was a strategy behind the 7 Series. There are not a lot of companies that have the ability to step back from what I would argue was a successful strategy in the mobile phone space. Today, we still sell a ton of phones.
So I don't feel late with it. I always wished I had more innovations sooner, but I think we definitely stepped back, took our time and were willing to make some pretty dramatic changes.
Dramatic it is, since the interface is unlike anything we've seen before. But how do you intend to keep up with the competition since the first devices on the new OS aren't expected until Q4 2010?
Woodman: I think we have a very unique perspective on the business. What we've seen is that most of our competition focuses on just bringing applications to the forefront. They use a very classic design language that we pioneered with a lot of our work on the desktop. Our perspective puts us into a different place because we focus much more on the customer end of the tasks and the ability to complete what you want to do. We fully expect apps to participate in that new design language. That perspective, I would argue, is quite unique to the marketplace today, and that's what results in such a different look and feel of the product. And then we brought some differentiation that I would argue most phone or phone software providers simply don't have. Xbox Live is a social game backbone with a community of over 23 million. That's not something Nokia and Apple has. They need to have a partner to do that and that makes it more difficult to do deep integration.
I would also argue that the search engine and data behind that allows us to do a very unique implementation of things like maps, search and results. If you look at the competition, there is only one provider which has that same product and that's Google. If you look at the music space, we have the PC desktop software and the ability to think about the rich integration between the PC and the phone, and the only one that kind of does that today is Apple. If you start to add these pieces together, you can identify unique competitors like MyPhone, MobileMe and Ovi. As a whole , there are very few people who have these assets. What I can say about our competitors is that they are very respectful and have great products, but I feel very good about my ability to differentiate both in the short and long term.
Why would anyone want to buy a 7 Series device over an iPhone, Android, Nokia or a BlackBerry?
Woodman: I think there are two reasons, and probably the biggest reason is that people will be drawn to the design. I really do think that's the case when you start focusing on things like the task rather than the applications. I think people will be drawn to the fact that they are able to see their information quickly, easily and in a readable fashion. Also, we thought about the design in terms of the motion and transitions where you see things fly in and out in a very dynamic fashion.
The second thing people will be drawn to is the idea of taking the most common tasks and bringing them together. People are a great example where today you really get fragmented in the people experience. And we start to see some people do some very, very lightweight integration of social networking. We think we are going to deliver that in a way that is going to be quite unique.
What operating system does Windows Phone 7 Series run on? Is there a name for it?
Woodman: There's product brand and product line. The brand is Windows Phone and Windows Phone 7 Series is the product line. The OS will be Windows Phone OS 7.
Are the codes different from the current CE codes?
Woodman: Yes, all the software was revisited when we built Windows Phone 7 Series. Nobody felt like an incremental change was going to get us to a point where we felt we would be competitive over the next several years. Across the board, I don't think anyone felt restrained to stay inside our current development model. We'll come back again and talk about that at MIX (a Microsoft Web design/development event) in March.
How can manufacturers differentiate their products?
Aaron Woodman: You'll see mobile operators and OEMs bring differentiation into the software experience through unique access to some tools. That said, you won't see any user experience on top of Windows Phone 7 Series. You won't see any skinning and those sort of things. There is so much fragmentation where the ecosystem is kind of butting heads against the same innovation. You won't see any opportunity for any OEM or third-party app developer to take over the user experience.
Hardware
What has Microsoft done since the acquisition of Danger? Are there any developments on that front and what are the company's plans for Danger?
Woodman: What I will tell you is that the number one thing we got from Danger is really about people and their expertise in the mobile phone space. You'll see a lot of benefits here as we start to think about how to structure hardware and work with hardware partners.
Can you give a straight answer on whether Microsoft will release a consumer phone line?
Woodman: Just answer this straight? [Exasperated laughter] The answer is, I don't really know. And the reason I don't know is we have mobile as a strategy as a company and I will tell you the company is not aggressive in that marketplace. If we felt like there was an opportunity to do something really compelling and different, we would do it. That said, Microsoft has a partner-driven model and we believe in the benefits of partnerships.
What are the hardware specifications Microsoft is laying out for OEMs?
Woodman: We will provide the OS primarily to software developers in March. Every 7 Series device will have a Qualcomm chip. It will be touch-based. There won't be any non-touch, but that's not saying there won't be any keyboard devices, so they will all be touch and capacitive. There is a single aspect ratio. It will have Wi-Fi and GPS and other services which we will talk about soon.
Can the users of the current Windows Mobile software upgrade to the new one when it comes out?
Woodman: I don't know if any Windows Mobile 6.5 device today meets those specifications.
How many 7 Series devices can users expect this year?
Woodman: A billion! No, I don't know. You saw the announcement of the OEMs and it's really up to them in terms of how many devices they release in the different markets.
Windows Mobile 6.x
What happens now to Windows Mobile 6.5, or even 6.5.3? Are you going to completely phase out the current WinMo or will it continue with a different proposition?
Woodman: We don't have a specific timeline for Windows Mobile 6.5. It still has a lot of demand and value for both OEMs and customers today. The reality is that demand will determine the lifespan of Windows Mobile 6.5. So as long as OEMs and customers find value there, we'll continue to support and sell the product.
Are there going to be new devices coming out this year?
Kwan: Yes. When we announced Windows Mobile 6.5 in October last year, we said we will continue to have updates. WM6.5.3 is an update in terms of added feature functionality. In the WM6 platform, there were a lot of legacy applications that were written with the stylus in mind. So we have the magnifier to enhance the touch experience for these apps. We also anticipate 14 new devices out in Asia in the next six months.
Are the target user groups of Windows Mobile 6.5, 6.5.3 and Windows Phone 7 Series different?
Kwan: The target audience is similar. Internally, we call it the life maximizer, but that's really about the 23-35 age group. We are talking about a group of people who are actually quite settled in what they do. They are confident people. They have a lot of priorities to juggle at work and in personal lives. Yet, they also want their phone to be able to help them obtain information to make their decision.
With Windows Phone 7 Series, we have built the OS from the ground up. We really want to take a lot of accountability in the user experience. We want to ensure that we build greater quality and consistency with the phone and have an integrated experience. For WM6.5, it is going to be the platform where we allow OEM partners to continue to have their unique user interfaces. It is also a platform today where a lot of enterprise business apps are being built. More and more, we are seeing that the phone is critical for a lot of these enterprise apps. That's where WM6.5 continues to hold a lot of strength in a managed enterprise environment.
Services
Will the entire suite of Live services be available on Windows Phone 7 Series?
Ladha: We will continue to provide the existing experience even as we go into the 7 Series. It's not really classified as Windows Live, but within the People Hub, there will be updates coming from Windows Live or Facebook. Essentially, it's getting all your communication in one place.
Will there be Live services specific to 7 Series?
Ladha: Xbox Live and Zune are new to Windows Phone 7 Series. On WM6.5, you have Marketplace and MyPhone, and that will continue on for the 7 Series.
...
...
What kind of gaming experience can users look forward to on the 7 Series devices? And what do developers have to look out for?
Ladha: That's still evolving and we will be discussing that in the next conference. You can see your avatars on your Windows Phones. You will get the same experience as on the Xbox, but this question of which games and to what extent is still being defined.
Assuming I have an Xbox and some games, do I have to repurchase the games to play on the handset?
Ladha: The actual mechanics in terms of which games and the payment process will be disclosed at a later stage.
Which version of the IE browser is it?
Ladha: The IE browser on the 7 Series is not really IE7 or IE8 from the PC but is built specifically for the mobile device. Previously, on WM6.5, we had Pocket IE, so it's an evolution of that. But it also has a lot of elements from the IE7 and IE8 in terms of the experience.
What is the name of this IE browser?
Ladha: We are not disclosing that right now.
It was said during the press conference that every 7 Series device is a Zune. Does that mean there won't be anymore dedicated Zune media players?
Ladha: We won't be commenting on that right now. Each and every 7 Series device will have the entire Zune experience in terms of playback and user interface currently available on the Zune HD.
What's the portfolio of Live services?
Ladha: Hotmail, Messenger and Photos are the more popular ones. There's also Spaces, but it's not that prominent. SkyDrive is a very popular service on the PC. However, we have a similar service which is called MyPhone.
It seems there's some duplication of services. Does Microsoft plan to combine them moving forward?
Ladha: I won't call it duplication of features. It's just that on the phone, there is no Windows Live SkyDrive for mobile. Instead, it's MyPhone. So it's ultimately performing the same actions.
my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Sina™ said:
my opinion
microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.
that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?
Sina™ said:
that's a good news.
microsoft will fail again & people will switch to android or iphone.
but what if xda devs fail to port android to wm 6.xx devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i doubt xda will fail at portin androind. sooner or later they will. like they have done for hd and tp2.
That's right, WP7 might not for power user ... if and only if it is quite limited in terms of customization / tweaking, just like iPhone.
But, it is early to tell that WP7 will fail.
Why?
Because power user is much more limited in terms of numbers compared to regular users.
And dont forget people JUMPING platform from iPhone, Nokia, BB, Android, others to WP7 ... just to try something new or they think it is more attractive.
You cannot rule that out.
Mr. Makk said:
and that will only work with the help of those users who wana change from iphone or symbian and move to winmo7. i doubt power users of android and winmo 6.5.x will prefer much of this new limited environment of winmo7.
with what they think they r providing will be gr8 for end user. i can assure that winmo7 is gonna fall like vista.
winmo 5-6.5.x has never been a sexy OS. it only worked cause most of its users know its power of customization. thats the reason winmo has been living for soo long. without that i doubt they'll b able to sustain much. i may be turned out wrong but this is what i strongly feel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buying a phone should not be enforcement.
I feel sorry for you if you were forced to buy a phone / gadget
There are choices as you said, iPhone, Android, Nokia, upcoming MeeGo or even Bada OS.
Sina™ said:
my opinion
just microsoft's illusions for forcing people to buying new crapgadgets just for playing with new os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont want new gadgets every year, i want strong 3rd party support like iphone.
Related
Pocketnow.com has a great story on Windows "Phone" 7 and details about what happened to Windows "Mobile" 7, codenamed Photon.
I think it's worth a read. I can add a little detail: Photon has been killed about 18 months ago. That's how long development of Windows Phone 7 took them. 18 months. And that's why the Windows Phone 7 they've shown at MWC looks so unfinished: Because it is.
Photon was the original Windows Mobile 7 project. An evolution of Windows Mobile 6. They were hard at work back then, trying to make Windows Mobile 7 competitive to iPhone OS. Windows Mobile 7 was originally planned to be released in mid 2009.
But at some point, they dumped the whole project and decided to start from scratch. Photon was dead. And Windows "Mobile" was doomed, making way for Windows "Phone". Instead of Photon, they released Windows Mobile 6.5 in mid 2009, a stop gap release to give them more time to finish their new Windows Phone 7 project.
Well, we all know how that turned out.
I personally think that they've made a mistake. I think Windows Mobile 7 (Photon) would have been competitive, as it essentially would have solved all of Windows Mobile's problems, but preserving the power of Windows Mobile, the reason we use and like it.
Windows Phone 7 will instead be much more closed and remove a great proportion of the power user features, that were the reason for us not to move on to other platforms, like the iPhone.
But what do I know? Windows Mobile 7 wouldn't have been much different from other platforms, like Android and iPhone OS. Sure, it would have had much more power user features, but it would have been centered around applications, like the others. It would certainly have gained a significant market share, but no dominance. With Windows Phone 7, instead, Microsoft is aiming higher.
But that also means a lot of risk. It means Windows Phone 7 might fail completely. In the end, it will come down to how good they are at getting developers excited about their new platform. That's where Palm failed, despite having a very compelling platform with webOS. Microsoft might fail the same way, though they have a much better starting position than Palm (more money, more resources, better developing tools).
In my opinions, they've taken too much risk while desperately trying to create something different from their competitors' app-centric platforms. As Engadget said it: Being different does not necessarily mean making a difference. If they can make a difference, they might dominate the smartphone market some time, like they dominate the desktop OS market. But if they fail to make a difference... well, Windows Phone might fall into oblivion, like Palm's webOS.
I like the Windows Phone 7 UI. I like it a lot. See my take on the interface quoted at the bottom of this post.
But Windows Phone 7 is very similar to Vista: Just like they killed the "Longhorn" project, they killed "Photon", and started from scratch. And just like Vista, what they're going to release by the end of 2010 will be an unfinished product.
They're trying to make you think that 7 is their lucky number, but actually, it might turn out that it's not, and Windows Phone 7 is just like Windows 6 (Vista).
Also, Windows Phone 7 is not that different from Palm's webOS: When the Palm Pre was released, webOS was a nice looking mobile OS, but lacking features and refinements. And lacking third party applications. Expect the same to happen with Windows Phone 7.
Here's the Pocketnow story: http://pocketnow.com/thought/thoughts-on-windows-phone-7-series-btw-photon-is-dead
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In short: This is easily and by far the best and most well thought through UI I've ever seen. Ever.
I particularly like
- the ability to pin pretty much everything to the first page (but unlike Sense, as many things as you want), whether it's contacts, programs or whatever
- the things you pin to the first page not being static, but also showing information - a very clever way to bring together the iPhone's icon-based home screen with Windows Mobile's information based home screen.
- the navigation through the pages, with the text on top going out of the screen to show you that there's more you can discover by swiping left/right
- the panorama backgrounds on all the screens (cover arts in music, a random picture in photos etc.)
- the ability for third party developers to integrate their stuff (like additional social networks or streaming services) into the hubs (I hope there will be a lot of freedom for third parties to do so!).
- the seamless integration of all kinds of services in general, whether it's Exchange, Windows Live (finally!!), Facebook...
I also particularly like that some good concepts from previous Windows Mobile versions have been preserved:
- long press menus
- softkeys
- quick search through any list (in WM6.5, it was the keyboard icon, now it's the required search button)
Those enable a consistent UI throughout all applications, contrary to the mess you find on the iPhone, where important buttons like "back" are in different places depending on the application you're in.
OK, enough of the praise, here's what I do NOT like:
- The all applications list: That should be a grid, cause there's lots of wasted space there.
- There seems to be no easy way to get to the music controls while music is playing in the background.
- Apparently there is no easy way to switch between running applications, this seems to work much like WM6.5, with the back button taking you to the application you used before. This is a mess, the back button should open some kind of task switcher instead.
Will that awesome UI be enough to keep me from buying an Android device? Well, ONLY if I get all the important applications from the beginning, like for example satellite navigation (TomTom, Copilot...) and ONLY if there are no restrictions on how I use my device - give me multitasking, unlimited access to the file system and registry, let companies develop competing applications (like browsers) etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great writeup...it's obvious that in order to attain mass market share MS needs to develop an interface that just works straight out of the box. It has to work for all ages which is something Apple have done with the iPhone..simple and attractive with a huge incentive to keep ones interest high through their ever growing appstore. If they can get it right first time and with the enthusiasm from application developers they may well be onto a winner but the win may not come immediately.However, they need to make every step count along the way and the longer they take the bigger the gap to the lead.
I also believe MS may leave at least one door unlocked to get their OS to do what powerusers expect from it.
From what I've seen of the WP7 interface so far it looks pretty neat and I'm definately looking forward to it hopefully landing on my HD2 soon.
Uh... link's dead.
aussiebum said:
Uh... link's dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).
I agree.
I wouldn't worry about WP7 apps' database like the iPhone people will get interest in it, its potential is great when it comes to the new UI (the only thing we know for sure).
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
It seems that M$ is willing to keep the old branch of Windows Mobile by renaming it to Windows Phone Classic. Perhaps Photon is the final evolution of Windows Phone Classic. I don't think, IF they keep on developping, that they are going to stop to this current bad look and poor customization of WM6.5.3.
I don't think Windows Phone 7 was supposed to be WM6.1, if it was the OS would be ready a long time ago.
I apologize for my poor english, i hope you understand my thought.
X-On said:
About the Photon project, why do you think that it's dead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.
freyberry said:
I have been told by peole inside Microsoft that WM6.5 will live on for no longer than two years, more likely only 18 months from now. I've heard no word that there would be a successor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Due to the limited versions numbers left between 6.5 and 7 it's not really assumed they will keep it going for too long. after 6.5.3 is gonna be officially released (this month?) my guess it that they're only fixing bugs and make it run on few more devices. in 1-2 years I don't think anymore OEMS will demand it and there'll be not a lot of phones with CPUs less than 1Ghz and such and they'll all run WP7. For MS it doesn't really make sense to keep it going any longer.....
WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors
Win_XP said:
WM6.5.x will be Windows Phone Starter Edition according to the latest rumors
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it's 'Windows Phone Classic'
source
Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.
some screens ...
dark_sith said:
Any chance of a Photon leak? Would be nice project for Xda Dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We had old alpha versions. It was very unfinished, slow and buggy.
Cotulla has posted its screenshots above.
I think Photon looked good. They should at least have finished the work on it and released it instead of WM6.5.
Let those 1000 developers work on Windows Phone OS 7.0 and another 500 work on Photon, release Photon in mid 2009 as WM6.5 and Windows Phone OS 7.0 a year later.
That would have been perfect. Ah I'm dreaming...
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
(i.e. whether or not developers are allowed to write programs like GPS tracking tools or FTP clients that can do their work in the background)
freyberry said:
Mamaich, any chance you could have another look at that dev document, whether third party applications get paused when sent to the background?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
I personally like WinPhone 7 kernel. It supports lots of different sensors, hardware accelerated Direct3D API (no OpenGL ES), multi-touch, almost all drivers are split in MDD+PDD model simplifying BSP development and ROM updates, redesigned security model.
Obviously we will hack WinPhone7 to enable running native apps (similar to "rooting" Androids that we have to do to install features like VPN client), and publish our own "native mode SDKs" here on XDA.
mamaich said:
There is no such info in the docs I have. These are OEM docs, they have lots of information on WinPhone kernel, and only brief info on user apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue
If MS continue with the Photon project, it would be more of the same.They would continue to loss marketshare. It may be technically more advanced for the WM powerusers. Unfortunately, it is a small minority for the market. the fact that Apple could sell their dump phone (1st iPhone) in millions and continue to do so well tells us what appeals to the the mass market. MS really has no choice but to follow the path they are doing now if they are to remain relevant to the mobile space. Yes, it is risky but the alternative is certain to fail.
freyberry said:
Thanks a lot. We will have to wait, then.
Obviously, WP7 will be hacked and we will be able to develop native and multitasking applications. But I seriously hope that big, important applications like GPS navigation programs won't be restricted from running in the background... I'll contact MS concerning that issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume that Navigation programs would belong to that type of application that would receive a multitasking permission by MS.... If that story about the permissions is true!? But looking at the already exisiting Designed for Windows Mobile or Marketplace submission handbook this pretty much fits in with MS's way of handling 3rd party applications.
from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed
MrWhisper said:
from the picture. are thet from Windows "Mobile" 7 ?
I like these UI. Microsoft should place these UI to WM6.x if WM7 was killed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me only like other screenshots I've seen with the new bottom bar (battery and signal indication + start button in the middle. I don't know if it's even real. Whatever, I'm gonna make it happen on WM 6.5.x! I already managed to change look of the taskbar. the bottom bar will be next project.
RustyGrom said:
Apparently pocketnow is in the process of moving to a new server and that article is on the new server. I can't see it either.
Microsoft is MASSIVELY different than Palm. In size, skills, and especially developer support and tools.
WebOS is a great OS but like you said, it's main failure is developer support. First, it's partially their fault due to the architecture. Until recently, you couldn't really write "native" apps using their SDK (people hacked it long ago but that's another story). Basically you were limited to little more than a web page with increased access to the phone. Meh. Also, WebOS has very minimal market penetration. Until recently it was only available on the US's #3 carrier and only later on select carriers abroad. Why develop software for a device that hardly anyone has? Apple was (as they always seem to do) able to drum up a large amout of support with very little reason to show for it. Microsoft will have a much more compelling story than Apple did with it's iPhone but will lack Apple's "it" factor (Jobs' RDF).
Palm is tiny. They don't have the money and patience like MS does to sustain a long, battle for the hearts and minds of phone users everywhere. Just look at what MS did with the Xbox. They didn't turn a profit on that unit until well into the Xbox 360. But did MS quit after the original Xbox was a failure? No, they tried harder. And now look.
Palm doesn't have the devloper tools. Yea, they can write plugins for Eclipse but they lack the ability to write extensive APIs and integrate them into Visual Studio. Do not underestimate the power of .net (figuratively and literally). Silverlight is fantastic as is XNA. If I can make a 'game' (although it sucked lol) anyone can.
No guts no glory. Microsoft is playing for keeps. I have no doubt that WP7 or WP8 will be successful.
FYI, Windows 7 is really Windows 6.1. And just like Longhorn, Photon was likely destined to be a failure. Vista was a necessary step to get to 7. The hatred for Vista is largely unfounded and 7 really is just Vista with the complaints fixed and a bit more modern UI.
We still don't know the story on app compat. It's running WinCE and it will support silverlight (.net) so there's little reason, other than wanting a complete clean break, that most old apps won't work. WinCE uses cab installs just like WM (because it is CE). I can write one app and deploy it to a bare WinCE 6.0 system or to WM6.5 (CE5). Maybe they will allow old stuff, maybe they won't. We won't know til next month. They very well may not have made this decision yet.
At one time the iPhone had 0 apps and WM had a **** ton. How long did it take for iPhone to build up a huge base of devs? I'm expecting a pretty solid selection of apps written for WP7 right from launch. Microsoft already has a lot of the key stuff onboard. I've got something in mind and will likely be doing one myself (something I started for WM6).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree with all of the above, as well as my HD2, I have a Palm Pre and whilst I watched the WP7S presentation from MWC, I kept thinking - "that's like the Pre" Palm did a great job with the user interface on WebOS - it blows away the iPhone and Winmo for ease of use, but they did release an unfinished product (although they have managed to put a reasonable spin on the ongoing development by pitching "new features" into the mix every couple of months - things that should have been there day1).
MS are huge in comparison to Palm and provided they do not get bogged down with "big corp intertia", my guess is that the new OS will lauch complete with all bells and whistles intact.
Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--
Possible, sure. Likely, no. WM6.5 is, for most intents and purposes, dead. Highly unlikely that anyone puts in the time and effort needed to hack the bootloader, etc of specific devices in order to backport the old OS.
Sander101077 said:
Hey Guys,
just starting a new threat to look for info and ideas about the next subject:
I am going to get a new phone in the next few months. Probable looking for an HTC with WP7.
I dont know if I will like it and I am wondering if these new phones could be flashed back to WM6.5.
Of course I would be willing to help with all kinds of WP7 ideas an tests, even though I am not a developper myself.
So, the statement for the new threat:
--Would it be possible/worhty to make 6.5 roms for WP7 hardware?--
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think u can buy a 6.5phone now
If you're looking for backwards compatibility Windows Embedded Handheld 7 (based on WM6.x) is scheduled for the second half of 2011.
I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all. WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste, less customization, etc. In fact, it is a dumb smartphone which is more geared for the iphone type consumer...those who would gladly trade endless customization and features for simplicity. Those who look at phones as fashion accessories and toys rather than something designed to get work done more efficiently. Sadly, the market for this is much much larger than the market for serious smart devices. Steve Jobs figured this out which is why the iphone is such a big hit, but most of us here have been looking at these folks going "wow, you can copy/paste now? Neat. I've been doing that for years!".
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products. If hey were to cut off SM6.x entirely while rolling out WP7, purchasing departments across the country would make a huge shift to blackberry. I'm certain that this is why RIM decided to go forward with plans for a new OS and why HP purchased Palm with their WebOS. They are both counting on MS doing this.
However, through conversations with various insiders at MS, it appears these fears are unfounded. Windows 6.5 is expected to continue being developed even into next year with possible future upgrades to the OS itself. WP7 will not support skins such as the HTC Sense interface, and because of the business users with business devices - particularly full qwerty devices like the Treo, Glisten, etc - they do expect to continue development.
I have heard rumors that there is actually a long development cycle planned for WM which involves the next iteration of Windows Mobile which will be renamed Windows 7 Professional. This would be in line with MS and their way of doing things and matches up nicely with Windows 7 and Windows Phone 7. I don't know how much of this part is true and how much is just rumors floating around backstage, but it makes a lot of sense.
kfreels said:
I've been following the conversations backstage and I don't think WM6.5 is dead at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..not dead....dying. The next iteration of 'WM' is BASED on 6.5.x and then in 2011 a version (based on WP7) with XNA and silverlight support is due.
Here's some info on the next 'WM' release....~note...this is not a 'WP' release so doesn't fall under the 'Windows Phone' umbrella, it's a new version of Windows Mobile - Embedded and it;s backwards compatible.
http://www.fiercemobilecontent.com/press-releases/microsoft-outlines-commitment-future-enterprise-handheld-devices
..also mentioned here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=6917106&posted=1#post6917106
Moving to General .
I will delete this post with in a week or two, so it doesn't clutter.
kfreels said:
WP7 has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to business use. No copy/paste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
God, I'm so tired of hearing this. There will be copy&paste, they said it often enough...
I had a list at one point which detailed all the things that WP7 does NOT do that 6.5 does and I can tell you that enterprise customers will not accept WP7 as a replacement to WM6.x. Many large companies out here are Microsoft partners with exchange servers, sharepoint, Office suitefor all employees and as a matter of IT support, they only support Windows Mobile so that their IT departments only have to manage MS products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the products you name (Office, Sharepoint, Exchange) are natively supported by WP7. Have you seen ANY WP7 demo video lately?
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http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=17190
Is anyone going to try to get one of these Windows Embedded Handheld devices so you can use all your Windows Mobile apps instead of going for Windows Phone 7?
WinEH is designed for enterprise markets, so they probably won't offer these phones to consumers. WP7 will probably be the main offering for most people.
If possible, definitely.
I think that it will be just a question of time until HTC starts to do a WEH box. Ah, and something else - Symbol makes really nice hardware. I handled them at the CeBit some time ago, and would have had no issues using one of these devices as my main phone of it were given to me.
WP7 is for consumers
WEH is for businesses/enterprise
It's pretty simple
lordcanti86 said:
WP7 is for consumers
WEH is for businesses/enterprise
It's pretty simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't ask what the target market was. I'm not an idiot, but that won't stop people from going and getting a device when they come out. They just won't be advertised. Like my TMO Touch Pro2 is a business device and was never advertised but I still went and picked one up. My question is whether or not YOU are going to try to get a Windows Embedded Handheld Phone or move to Windows Phone 7 not if the average consumer is going to do that.
Hmm, if there's an upgrade for the current HTC Touch phones, it's gonna be this. I'm going to try and work on it. >
Screw WP7.
lordcanti86 said:
WP7 is for consumers
WEH is for businesses/enterprise
It's pretty simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Business pick what their employees want. Just look at the iPhone.
WP7 will be for business as well, just look at the sharepoint integration. It'll be very win, specially for tech'ish companies (I already have wild dreams about ticket control for TFS over my mobile, combined with sharepoint!)
People sticking to Windows Mobile is just the stubborn old people, that won't move on, even if they don't have any good arguments not to.
Windcape said:
Business pick what their employees want. Just look at the iPhone.
WP7 will be for business as well, just look at the sharepoint integration. It'll be very win, specially for tech'ish companies (I already have wild dreams about ticket control for TFS over my mobile, combined with sharepoint!)
People sticking to Windows Mobile is just the stubborn old people, that won't move on, even if they don't have any good arguments not to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. And it's not just corporations, the US Department of Defense is looking at using iPhones and Android!
WP7 in v1 isn't really enterprise ready for many businesses as there's not enough policy/control. It's basically just the normal exchange settings, forcing a PIN, and remote wipe at the moment. They also don't allow private app distribution. Once they add more device control and a way to push apps to the phones, they'll jump all over it. Their .net developers will be begging them to. Apple doesn't "get" the enterprise. Microsoft does.
But to get the enterprise market to use your phones, you need the average consumer to use it first. Once you got a success with that, you can implement enterprise features.
Also way to many .NET developers, even the Microsoft employees on the different .NET divisions use iPhone, just look at their tweets from various iPhone apps.
iPhone isn't a business device yet businesses are starting to want to use it. Why? Because the people who work the the business don't want to carrie around multiple phones and they like their iphone. So, if WP7 can get it right on the consumer side people will be begging to have their device used for their business as well and if WP7 can set it up to make that an easy task then Microsoft will have a big win on their hands.
lordcanti86 said:
WP7 is for consumers
WEH is for businesses/enterprise
It's pretty simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, it looks like they're doing a parrallel line like Windows NT (business)/Windows 98(consumer).
I'm assuming WP8 will unite the lines and be the Windows XP of MS's mobile line.
gom99 said:
Yea, it looks like they're doing a parrallel line like Windows NT (business)/Windows 98(consumer).
I'm assuming WP8 will unite the lines and be the Windows XP of MS's mobile line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they aren't. How many time are to we say this?
WP7 comes with more business tools than any other smartphone. Hell, there is even plans for private application distributions over the market, they just aren't done yet.
Any arguments to keep WinMobile is stupid nonsense so far.
Windcape said:
No, they aren't. How many time are to we say this?
WP7 comes with more business tools than any other smartphone. Hell, there is even plans for private application distributions over the market, they just aren't done yet.
Any arguments to keep WinMobile is stupid nonsense so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean no they aren't? Of course they are having 2 seperate product lines for the time being, because wp7 isn't ready to replace windows mobile as of yet. You said it yourself, they're not done, so they're maintaining 2 seperate product lines like my analogy Windows NT/2000 & Windows 98.
Maybe the confusion is that I put WP8...I probably should have sais "WP8". Whether or not they keey the moniker wp7 doesn't really matter, I just meant a later release of the newer OS.
And I don't see how wp7 is coming with more business tools than Windows Mobile. It's going to have office and sharepoint integration, I don't see how that's more than what we have now. Add on top of that, all the in house business applications that cannot be reproduced in wp7 as of yet, and I'll call your statement exaggeration.
WP7 is ready to replace Windows Mobile. And they are not maintaining it as two different lines of products, as WP7 is not released yet, and Windows Mobile looks like to not be maintained further.
If WP7 fails, Microsoft is likely to draw out of the mobile market entirely.
WP7 is designed for both private and business consumers. It's not meant to be a private alternative to Windows Mobile.
Windcape said:
WP7 is ready to replace Windows Mobile. And they are not maintaining it as two different lines of products, as WP7 is not released yet, and Windows Mobile looks like to not be maintained further.
If WP7 fails, Microsoft is likely to draw out of the mobile market entirely.
WP7 is designed for both private and business consumers. It's not meant to be a private alternative to Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything I've read has suggested that Windows Mobile "Classic" has several years of support left it in. I'd be surprised if we don't see another version of it released. We already have WEH, and that's fairly new, I'm sure they'll release updates to that as well.
gom99 said:
Everything I've read has suggested that Windows Mobile "Classic" has several years of support left it in. I'd be surprised if we don't see another version of it released. We already have WEH, and that's fairly new, I'm sure they'll release updates to that as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vista and Windows 7 was also intended to replace Windows XP. And Windows Server 2008 R1 and R2 was also meant to replace Windows Server 2003.
Yet the products still have support. But they aren't further developed, and application developers will only focus on supporting the new and hip platform (read: WP7).
Windcape said:
Vista and Windows 7 was also intended to replace Windows XP. And Windows Server 2008 R1 and R2 was also meant to replace Windows Server 2003.
Yet the products still have support. But they aren't further developed, and application developers will only focus on supporting the new and hip platform (read: WP7).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that Vista & Windows 7 can perform pretty much any task that Windows XP can perform and then some. That's not the case in windows mobile and the october release of wp7.
You're thinking too consumer facing and not business facing. Eventually it will be replaced in the business sector, but that OS is not wp7 in October. Perhaps wp7 in 2012.
It'll replace Windows Mobile in the business sector, as fast as iPhone replaced Palm Pre / Blackberry / Windows Mobile.
You don't get it, business already changed to using iPhones, Windows Phone 7 will just be "neater" with their other Windows solution. And thus they'll rather pick that.
Windows Phone 7 can also perform all the same tasks as Windows Mobile can. You're just unhappy with being forced to get applications over-the-air.
Windcape said:
It'll replace Windows Mobile in the business sector, as fast as iPhone replaced Palm Pre / Blackberry / Windows Mobile.
You don't get it, business already changed to using iPhones, Windows Phone 7 will just be "neater" with their other Windows solution. And thus they'll rather pick that.
Windows Phone 7 can also perform all the same tasks as Windows Mobile can. You're just unhappy with being forced to get applications over-the-air.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While some businesses are adopting the iPhone, most are sticking with Blackberry and some WinMo. The iPhone just doesn't have the management capabilities that Blackberry does. It's certain that MS will add this support (basically just support for System Center) and once they do it will have a leg up in the enterprise over iPhone and potentially even Blackberry. The thing that Blackberry has is that it's the clear dominant party here and enterprise users are notoriously slow to adopt new technology. Most upper middle/management, who are the ones that primarily supplied with devices and make these decisions, are the older portion of the workforce and aren't too keen on all the new-fangled gadgets. They've figured out how to use their blackberries and don't want to change. Of course I'm generalizing massively but this is true a vast majority of the time.
I work in IT for a fortune 100 company and I have seen some push to get iPhones and Android devices in use but it's pretty much gone nowhere. There's even some effort in the US Department of Defense to make this happen there and that looks like it's actually gonna happen surprisingly enough. But the problem prohibiting widespread usage is the lack of security and management features.
So once WP7 gets the full suite of management tools and a method of private app distribution, it will have a big leg up on the competition. Why? Tight integration with Microsoft's enterprise management and content systems. It already has good integration with Exchange and SharePoint. Managers (and regular users) will continue to request/demand more modern devices. The IT departments will demand more enterprise features than iPhone and Android provide. WP7 will provide that happy medium. I would imagine that this will come with the next release of SCCM.
But let's not dismiss RIM just yet. They're updating their OS a good bit for the next release (including a Webkit based browser) so it's unlikely that we'll see a mass exodus anytime soon. If WP7 is cheap for companies to add to their infrastructure, it could become a real alternative to Blackberry.
Companies are notorious slow at picking up new technology yes. But their employees are not. So when half the company runs around with a iPhone, you can't ignore it any longer.
I'm still wondering exactly what management capabilities you want. It's a bloody phone, it's not meant to be controlled by the IT-department, it's meant to do what it's made for.
Silly American companies with internet filters, and strict policies won't ever go with a smartphone like this. But luckily times are changing, and most companies are realizing that employees work better if given proper freedom.
But yeah, I think there's a culture gap between Europe and American way of thinking about devices in a work context here.
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Your criticism is wellcomed here. But I gonna criticize your criticism.
CDMA Support will come. 6months after the release of the GSM version. The Iphone is huge and is only on one carrier, a gsm carrier at that, did CMDA hurt it. The first US Android device was the Tmobile G1. It was the only Android device for a while, and again launched on a GSM carrier, but look Android is huge now.. Also the main market MS is aiming at is the Euro/Asia Market which is mostly GSM. So you think about smart move or not?
It cost money? The top selling Android phones are all premium devices. They're sold at $199 on each carrier. If price is a bad, thing how did the Iphone become so popular? Those specs MS chose are to keep a quality control on the hardware so devs can fully utilitize the hardware. If MS used lower specs than devs would have to support the least common denominator and the app won't be as optimized.
Yes WM6.5 wasn't successful, but there are reasons behind that fragmentation and LOW SPECS. The kin was a failure from the beginning since it took away MS resource and time away from WP7. WM6.5 and the Kin didn't have the features that WP7 has, nor did they have the dev support that WP7 is receiving which is what will make it successful.
juliusaugustus said:
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thought is don't judge a thing before it is released...
For your CDMA support point, did Iphone and Android release CDMA phone when they are launched. NO, why? This a basic business or economic knowledge, since WP7 is new product and GSM still the priority. Microsoft has to see how consumers respond to their concept, CDMA definitely will be supported soon.
Yeah...Of course,it cost money, but this is depends how the manufacturers deal with Microsoft. For example, Microsoft might offer a very low price to manufacturers to use their operating system or Manufacturer foresee the future vale of WP7. Furthermore, these big companies got many financial analyzers.This is what you no need worry about it.Lastly, What consumers want to see is the actual price of the handset and the actual values it brought to us.
Regarding the low end market, of course, Microsoft is conducting product-differentiation strategy, thats why they did'n aim the low end market. Furthermore, the required hardwares are to ensure to user experiences. For example, Comparing HTC Tattoo and HTC evo. If you bought Tattoo, most users definitely will blame the android OS but not the hardwares, because not everyone in the world is tech-geek. In contrast, the handset you bought is HTC evo, you definitely will feel that is awesome, no laggy,smooth, fast, great resolution.
Regarding the Microsoft Kin, what I predict is, but not confirmed, Microsoft try to observe the consumer spending behaviour and handphone demand, but not try to earn the profit. For instance, the advertisement fees on KIN, I can say it is extremely low. Furthermore, KIN just open for US market. Lastly, Microsoft can cut down the production of this phone so fast and quick with minimal lost. So, you can see that maybe they already plan to cut down the procution at the beginning. And they are preparing something big at the backstage...which is WP7...
When you comparing WM6 and WP7 is completely wrong, because this two OSes are completely different, in term of UI, functionalities and etc.....Everyone knows that the WM6 market share is extremely low now. In my opinion, this is what Microsoft done wrong, back in few years ago, WM6 still dominate the Smartphone market so called monopoly, and Microsoft didn't realised the threat of new entrants such as android and iOS. In addition, Microsoft focused more on PC OS.
Lastly, I just hope don't judge something before you try or use...
Cheers...
you know there is life outside USA and it's 95% GSM network running world out there...
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
amb9800 said:
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
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For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software herehttp://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
Even, you didn't own a ZUNE, you can use it too. Now ZUNE player already my default music and movie player. It's great and awesome, especially finding album arts, great graphic and etc...Furthermore, what I like is I can play any song in my PC without convert or create a new datastore to store the converted music...and ITUNES did this.omg, it wastes my hard drive spaces.About the market share, same situation again...ZUNE is just for sales in US market. Therefore, can't compare it with itunes store....
However, I might be wrong...Just stay tuned...WP7 gonna launch in this month...
Cheers...
sylau90 said:
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
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But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
sylau90 said:
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software here http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
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Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
amb9800 said:
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
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Yeah, actually, personally I think that Apple and android marketing strategies are far more strong than Microsoft. Furthermore, What I like Apple provided is the frequency of operating system updates. Therefore, we no need to change the handset frequently in order to get the latest updates or functionalities.
However, the frequency of windows phone 7 updates are unknown, nobody knows. However,in here I can say that. Apple, Microsoft and Android using totally different strategies. Since Microsoft didn't manufature their own handsets, they just sell OS to manaufacturers. Therefore, it's unlikely they will provide the update very often. However for Apple,they do manufacture their own handsets, therefore they can focus more on software updates and applications, because all the profit will just go into their pockets.
What Microsoft prepared are the new LIVE TILES UI which I think is the success part, because currently I'm using latest windows live messenger and and zune software. they are awesome.
However, now everyone is enjoying the Apple and Android banquet...let's see what cuisines Microsoft prepared for us...By the way, Dell Lightning with WP7 is a good and sexy device, gonna get one if there is one.
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
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So does iOS, and that's doing well. Also CDMA will come in time.
juliusaugustus said:
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
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It's not all that expensive...it's $10 dollars that you pass onto the user anyway. Instead of your phone costing 200-300 dollars to manufacture it costs +10 dollars more. The final price for a phone is 500-600...10 dollars more is hardly something to think about.
Also you have to pay for desktop windows, or pay a very high preimum for OSX + hardware....they're both doing better than linux in the PC world.
juliusaugustus said:
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
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So? that hasn't hurt iOS...and this is something that has to do with time...hardware costs become cheaper over time, so eventually these hardware requirements will become cheap to manufacture and it will enter the low end market.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
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Windows Mobile lost market share because they didn't update it as frequently as they should...then they decided to make a paradigm shift and people slowly abandoned windows mobile since there was no future to the OS.
Also, WM still has a decent market share. It's 6-8% in the states and in the teens in Europe according to some recent reports.
juliusaugustus said:
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has a crystal ball.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
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To some degree...I like widgets in theory, but in practice I always disable them if a phone OS allows me to and go to something more unified like Titanium. The reason I dislike widgets is that there are no design guidelines for them generally so it makes your start page look like crap. Live tiles are widgets done right imo.
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
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Click to collapse
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Tom Servo said:
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
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Actually, CDMA is superior in almost any aspect. UMTS (3G) has much more in common with CDMA than with GSM.
sylau90 said:
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
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Click to collapse
Huh, pick one?
vetvito said:
Huh, pick one?
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Sorry,just now I didn't read your sentence clearly. I thought you said there are some widgets work like live tiles...sorry...haha
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
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To Me that would would be the defination of Apple and Steve Jobs...
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
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Click to collapse
Well, CDMA support has been confirmed for early 2011. GSM is what over 90% of the world uses so GSM is coming first.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
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Click to collapse
This platform would be chosen over both of those because it's an OS that has that "it just works" factor that everyone loves about the iPhone. It's smooth, has great games, zune, office, etc...
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
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This is a great thing since it means everyone will be able to run the OS and games smoothly. Prices will drop as hardware matures. $199 is pretty standard for those specs and it's a price many are willing to pay.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
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Click to collapse
Both have almost nothing to do with Windows Phone. Kin was a huge failure for two reasons IMO, it had to have a data plan, and it lacked apps and games. Manufacturers are already dropping Symbian and Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't supported my MS anymore. Manufacturers are behind WP7 because it's a complete refresh. It's different and looks fun.
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune Player is a bit more than a skinned WMP. It has themes, marketplace, subscriptions service, and it has more features like SmartDJ. Windows 7 is a great OS. I haven't had any problems with performance or security at all.
When Windows Phone 7 was announced, every WinMo fan could not wait to see what Microsoft was going to come up with. We were all hoping that Microsoft could give us a modern mobile OS that was feature-rich and stable. Something at best better than Android and at worst comparable.
The first set of news that started to raise eyebrows was the complete design control Microsoft imposed on the phones. From the cpu speed to the number of physical buttons, we jokingly said Microsoft was beginning to sound like Apple. But we brushed it off saying that the high minimum requirements meant all the phones were going to be fabulously powerful and there is nothing wrong with that.
Then more disturbing things started to come out. No bluetooth transfer or mass storage mode. Conflicting reports were coming out about the memory card or lack thereof. There would be no Flash support and Zune software will be needed to manage files on the phone. Suddenly the mobile OS Microsoft was creating started to sound less and less like Android and more like iOS.
But I believe that Microsoft does not see Windows Phone 7 as a competitor to the Android and iPhone phones of this world. I think they are actually after the Blackberry market instead. Then all these limitations make sense. Windows Phone 7 has too many mass consumer limitations to compete with a well established Android OS. But the Blackberry market, as insane as it sounds with how rooted BBs are in government and corporations, is actually attainable.
Microsoft put effort into creating a phone that is a hub of information. Email capabilities when using an Exchange server look amazing. MSN messenger already has a large user base.
+ WP7 handsets are more technologically advanced than BB handsets
+ MSN Messenger is better than BB Messenger
+ Browser experience is without question better than what BB is offering now
- BB is the king of email and WP7 will have to work to trump BB.
But it makes for more sense for this phone to be a BlackBerry beater than an Android one. I would pick any of the 9 debut handsets over a Blackberry. I would have a harder time choosing them over a Desire.
The only hopes of trumping BB phones is rooted in security. For any company to allow the use of wp7 phones, there will needed to be extensive security testing to ensure that the intellectual property is safeguarded. This is especially applicable to governments.
And I believe that is exactly what they did. Here is an interview taken from everythingwm.com:
Two conspicuous absences in the abilities of Windows Phone 7 are Flash and Silverlight — the latter especially, as it is developed by Microsoft themselves. TechRadar talked to Microsoft’s Andy Lees, president of the mobile communications division, on the issue, and this is what he had to say:
“It’s not a religious thing; we support standard H.264 video in the browser. We’re not allergic to Flash, we’re not allergic to Silverlight, we’re not allergic to HTML5 – but this [Windows Phone 7 browser] doesn’t support it. We don’t have the extensibility model inside the browser for those pieces and when you see the future I think you’ll understand why.
[...]
“There is no ActiveX plug-in extensibility because of the security model; we’re not going to do that. And with no ActiveX plug-in model, how would we do Flash?”
It’s about stability, security, and battery life, it seems. Pretty much exactly what Apple said about why they don’t support Flash on the iPhone.
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
RustyGrom said:
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
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Click to collapse
It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
going to agree with rusty here. Bb market is losing more share than windows to iPhone mostly. Wp7 is a consumer device with some nuances of work related material
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
RustyGrom said:
It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
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I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
nicksti said:
I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, at first WP7 will probably get crushed but it will gain momentum.
There's plenty of reasons why consumers will pick up WP7 devices. Better media, better UI, easier to use, a guaranteed experience, higher quality apps, etc. There's been many, many threads and posts on this forum debating this topic so I'd suggest you start reading if you want to know the pros/cons.
Yes, there is side loading but it's only for registered developers. Read the article I posted, it does a good job of explaining it. WP7 is in no way targeted at corporations right now. That will come in time but right now it is squarely pointed at media and social networking hungry consumers.
So yes, because it does include exchange policy support as well as office integration, you could make the argument that it's already more corporate friendly than iPhone and Android. But that's not saying much at all. It is still not even on the same playing field as BlackBerry in that space.
I am not sure if the xda review shares my opinion, but look at the last paragraphof this article:
http://www.xda-developers.com/windows-mobile/xda-exclusive-windows-phone-7-review/
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdpQir1sqiQ
Windows Phone 7 taking a funny shot at Crackberry users.
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
crow26 said:
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
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Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
agp64 said:
Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
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He's like a broken record with that crap in many WP7 threads.
nkd said:
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
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Free turn by turn nav is nothing new to MS. They were first to have free TbT on the WinMo 6.5 in Bing search. TbT nav is now a common thing in today's smartphones. For MS to not plan it in from the get go for WP7 is, in my view of it, short sighted.
The TbT incorporated in Bing on my HD2 worked flawlessly. I see nothing broken about software MS already has perfected. My view is MS is just being hard-nosed and far too conservative about features in WP7. It's as if they are daring the market not to support WP7. They are doing the exact opposite of what they need to do to have a mobile OS that will survive in this market. Instead of piling in the features and making a top-notch OS that makes a person say, "WOW! I have to have that!", they are making a first-rate, top-notch OS but skimping on features. This makes a person think, when considering the nature of technology getting better and more feature laden as time passes, that they have to have a WP7 device and then, when they see it doesn't do what they expected because it doesn't have all those features, they become disillusioned and are left with a bummed out feeling toward MS and their shiny, fancy new OS.
Since this is how MS does business....newer tech being LESS feature laden...the next time I buy a car, I will buy a Lexus and expect a model-T
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
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That is what happens when opt to be a guinea pig. But you can place a reasonable bet that these initial offering issues will be fixed by Q1 2011. The question is are you willing to wait?
And no, I do not believe your Bold 9000 has better audio than the Surround. But I have not heard the Surround yet.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
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Are you actually deaf or using broken headphones/speakers? The zune player has the best audio playback off any phone period.
I have posted about other complains on the phone in other threads so i will keep this to a basic summary.
Zune file management is easily the best if you pref active sync then there is something wrong with you plus its media management makes even apple look pafetic.
If you want a mass storage device buy a memory stick there like £20 and work better than any phone mp3 player or book reader.
copy and paste and flash are on the way though tbf c/p is overrated and flash is a battery drain.
multitasking is just for show and in the real world only acts to drain battery and slow down performance (everything it would be useful for already do ie you can read texts whilst in other apps)
turn by turn is just a gimic don't know about anyone else but when i get in my car I have my tomtom and don't kill my phone just getting somewhere.
All in all MS has got the point of a phone and have what is needed working let us not forget the bonuses,
Zune rules everything, hubs and tiles are the future, Xbox live is the greatest thing to happen to phones ever and it all works smoth and looks like something from minority report whils tnot sacrifysing anything thats actually useful, just a bunch of crap people like to say they have.
Zune is an awesome player and I can second that.
But Android is much more hackable and versatile. It's like Windows Mobile 6.5 with better interface and looks!
I like how lumpa's argument on essential features is,"Well, you only THINK you need that."
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App