Related
At iPhone 3GS there is Google Earth with 3D view of some places mainly monuments, buildings and streets. In Windows Mobile there is Google Maps which is not so powerful.
Is there Google Earth to Windows Mobile? Please inform.
If not, is there some limitation in Windows Mobile devices to run Google Earth?
Thanks.
Remember that the iphone 3GS has the new generation of arm chipsets, just like Palm Pre (coretex A8 or something along those lines). The next generation of HTC products (some rumored to come out this year) will have similar chipsets, some of them more powerful if I'm not mistaken...
There's always been a problem with 3D graphics on this generation of Qualcomm chipsets due to the question of proper drivers. So I don't know if the current chipset is capable, but even if it were, I doubt it'd handle Google Earth without the proper drivers.
I don't know if the mobile version will suffer from it, but the full PC version of google earth has never been stable and has cause lots of PC's to blue screen.
OP: nope- looks like there's no Google Earth client for WM.
solsearch said:
Remember that the iphone 3GS has the new generation of arm chipsets, just like Palm Pre (coretex A8 or something along those lines). The next generation of HTC products (some rumored to come out this year) will have similar chipsets, some of them more powerful if I'm not mistaken...
There's always been a problem with 3D graphics on this generation of Qualcomm chipsets due to the question of proper drivers. So I don't know if the current chipset is capable, but even if it were, I doubt it'd handle Google Earth without the proper drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the Google Earth app runs on the iPhone/iPhone 3G as well, which has a 412 MHz ARM11 CPU and a PowerVR MBX-Lite GPU (a lot slower than the 3GS' Cortex A8 CPU and PowerVR SGX535 GPU). The Qualcomm MSM7200's ATI Imageon GPU hardware is actually theoretically faster than the MBX-Lite, but the implementation is, for whatever reason (drivers, etc.), a lot slower.
So yeah, I'm inclined to think that Google might be concerned about graphics limitations here, because even Google's own Android OS doesn't have a Google Earth client yet-- presumably because most of the popular Android devices are HTC phones with the same MSM7200 internals.
I have Pro 2 and in general I'm satisfied with it. But also I have access to an iPhone 3GS and I can assure that iPhone is a very fast device, far faster than Pro2. So, I don´t understand:
1 - Why iPhone has no video call?!!!
2 - Why iPhone is so faster compared with Pro2?!!
3 - Why HTC is disable to put graphic part of CPU working?!!!
On the contrary than it´s said, there is an application that permit iPhone to be a multi task device.
Racing car games on iPhone run so well like a PC, and the same with Google Earth. It's incredible the speed of iPhone in all applications. Also there are hundred of applications to iPhone.
However I don´t know why iPhone GPS only works properly with Navigon and not so well with Tomtom!!!
If iPhone had video call, a better GPS and a 800x480 screen (it's only 480x320 - 3.5"), it would be by far the best device in the market mainly due to the speed of it.
cribeiro said:
I have Pro 2 and in general I'm satisfied with it. But also I have access to an iPhone 3GS and I can assure that iPhone is a very fast device, far faster than Pro2. So, I don´t understand:
1 - Why iPhone has no video call?!!!
2 - Why iPhone is so faster compared with Pro2?!!
3 - Why HTC is disable to put graphic part of CPU working?!!!
On the contrary than it´s said, there is an application that permit iPhone to be a multi task device.
Racing car games on iPhone run so well like a PC, and the same with Google Earth. It's incredible the speed of iPhone in all applications. Also there are hundred of applications to iPhone.
However I don´t know why iPhone GPS only works properly with Navigon and not so well with Tomtom!!!
If iPhone had video call, a better GPS and a 800x480 screen (it's only 480x320 - 3.5"), it would be by far the best device in the market mainly due to the speed of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a few reasons for this- first, the iPhone 3GS has far superior processing power compared to the TP2, and second, WM can't even make full use of what power the TP2 does have.
To address the first point, the 3GS has an ARM Cortex A8 CPU at 600 MHz (867 MHz underclocked for heat/power savings). Cortex A8 is twice as fast, clock-for-clock, as the ARM11 architecture. The TP2's Qualcomm MSM7200 CPU has an ARM11 at 528 MHz, so in raw processing power, the 3GS is 2-3x faster. Further, MSM7200 lacks ARM11's VFP option, so all floating-point operations are done by software, while the Cortex A8 has the NEON floating-point accelerator. As a result, the 3GS is 40-50x faster than the TP2 at floating-point operations, which iPhone OS X uses quite heavily.
On the graphics end, Apple chose to pair the Cortex A8 with a PowerVR SGX 535 GPU, which blows away everything short of Tegra (about 40% slower than Tegra's GPU, but Tegra's CPU is a slow 600 MHz ARM11, so 3GS' CPU is >200% faster). The SGX 535 is even faster than the Qualcomm Snapdragon's GPU (an ATI Imageon Z430), and from what's been seen so far, the 3GS' GPU is often 10-30x faster than HTC's implementation of the MSM7200 (in TP2/TD2/G1/etc.).
Now onto the second point- Windows CE, which underpins Windows Mobile, only targets the ancient ARMv5 instruction set, so it can't take advantage of newer CPU features, like hardware floating-point units. In addition, WM lacks a composited desktop- so while the iPhone/Pre/Android OSes all use GPU acceleration to handle their UI, WM relies on the CPU, so it can never be as smooth, for the same reason that Windows XP's UI can never be quite as smooth as Vista/7 (which have GPU-composited desktops).
So the result of that is that even if you feed WM a lot of processing power, it won't perform as well as other mobile OSes due to its ancient architecture. See the Toshiba TG01, for example- its 1 GHz Snapdragon CPU (whose architecture is even faster than Cortex A8) is over 60% faster than the 3GS', and its GPU is almost as fast, yet in many cases the 3GS still blows it away in usability and app performance.
HTC saved money by going with the same old Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset for the TP2/TD2, but in reality, even a Snapdragon chip wouldn't solve WM's architectural deficiencies. That won't change until MS moves beyond CE5/6 (probably with WM7 in late 2010).
Stock iPhones can't multitask beyond Apple's own included apps (iTunes, Mail, etc.), but if you jailbreak the phone (a simple 5-minute process- much simpler than flashing a WM ROM), apps like Backgrounder let you multitask. Apple thoroughly optimized its software to extract the most out of its hardware, and it really shows if you push the phone hard-- even the original iPhone/3G perform quite well given their hardware.
As for video calling, no US carrier supports it, and even in Europe, usage rates are abysmal and the quality's usually poor, so it doesn't make too much sense for Apple to integrate until it can guarantee an iChat-quality video experience.
amb9800 said:
Now onto the second point- Windows CE, which underpins Windows Mobile, only targets the ancient ARMv5 instruction set, so it can't take advantage of newer CPU features, like hardware floating-point units.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the OS targets ARMv4 so it's even worse, but makes it great to backport the OS to ancient devices.
However, the OS can take advantage of hardware FPU (detects for it even), but NO ODM will turn on the necessary OS support for it even if they ship a device with FPU in it, such as the S3C6410 in the OmniaII/Acer *900, and all the Snapdragon devices. They're all really lazy and enforces that if MS doesn't hand it on a silver platter to them, they won't make it themselves. They rather make more money shipping as many shoddy devices as possible (HTC).
So WM is a pretty poor platform to be on especially with a MSM7200 cpu crippling everybody. Google would be smart to dump HTC/Qualcomm's shackles and move to a modern platform for Android, and WM won't get there first.
It would be especially smart to just stop buying ANY device with a MSM7200 cpu in it unless all you want is feature-phone capabilities.
amb9800 said:
There are a few reasons for this- first, the iPhone 3GS has far superior processing power compared to the TP2, and second, WM can't even make full use of what power the TP2 does have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great analysis, very informative!
tanx
Google Earth Client on HD2
Yes, but is there a good reason why an HD2 couldn't handle a Google Earth client (or do you need to load Android instead of WM6.5 to make it work) ?
AndyHy said:
Yes, but is there a good reason why an HD2 couldn't handle a Google Earth client (or do you need to load Android instead of WM6.5 to make it work) ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon's GPU hardware is almost as powerful as the iPhone 3GS' (though driver implementation is still less than optimal), so I'm sure it could handle a Google Earth client. That said, Google's unlikely to release one for WM at this point...
Wow. Now that I am thoughly depressed that I paid 4x as much for my slower and less useful TP2 than for an iphone, I am going to have a hard time paying hte bill on this thing!
Thanks a lot!
Does the new hardware call for a graphics processor?
I know that Steve Jobs never sells a piece of hardware without a dedicated graphics processor, such as in the iPhone (PowerVR MBX-Lite graphics processor), or the Macbook (NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT).
In windows machines, it is always an after-thought.
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
It just needs to be utilized with good drivers.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
RustyGrom said:
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
chiks19018 said:
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What part of WP7 is like WM6? It's entirely different. Microsoft had practically no hardware requirements before, now they're being super strict. Gaming is a huge portion of their focus. We should know more next week at GDC. Besides, Snapdragon includes full 3d acceleration. There's no need for a discrete graphics chip as far as I'm aware.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drivers. MS isn't giving the OEMs as much control over the lower level OS and is developing all of the drivers themselves. No more will we have the problem of HTC deciding that 3d drivers aren't needed.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be sick if they annouce the msm8xxx being required and that's why HD2 isn't supported. I'd take that trade off.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Wishmaster89 said:
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Shasarak said:
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always sounded to me like they just picked one to launch with and will support others going forward. Writing drivers and testing other platforms at this point doesn't really give a good bang for the buck.
We should know on the 10th (the first GDC windows phone sessions). I would think the graphics capability would be something they would share there. But then again, they've shown an astounding ability to just say "wait for MIX" so far so they very well could keep that up.
Developing Games for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Michael Klucher
Time: 1:15-2:15pm
The future of Windows Phone has never looked better. With the release of Windows Phone 7 Series, game developers will be able to create amazing content rapidly. This talk outlines the basic framework for games, presents Windows Phone 7 Series device characteristics, and provides and overview of game development on the phone.
High Performance 3D Games on Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Tomas Vykruta & Shawn Hargreaves
Time: 2:30-3:30pm
Windows Phone 7 Series is a highly capable platform for game development. This talk covers 3D game development on Windows Phone 7 Series with an emphasis on the unique characteristics of the platform. The talk also focuses on optimizing high-performance games for the platform, to help developers squeeze out every last drop of performance.
Development and Debugging Tools for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Cullen Waters
Time: 3:45pm-4:45pm
This talk discusses the basic tools available to game developers on Windows Phone 7 Series, including debugging, emulation, and performance tools. The talk places special emphasis on best practices for performance and profiling tools that can be used to optimize games for Windows Phone 7 Series.
Bringing the Best of Xbox LIVE to Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Adam Schaeffer
Time: 5:00-6:00pm
The Xbox LIVE service is going mobile! With Windows Phone 7 Series, core features such as Achievements, Leaderboards, and game invites will be available to games on Windows Phone 7 Series devices. This talk covers the basics of the services available and how they can be used to enable core Xbox LIVE functionality in games. In addition, this talk will present best practices for connecting Windows Phone 7 Series games to back-end servers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine that they want WP7 to be as smooth and hitch-free as possible to start out with. That means not allowing for any unknown variables such as different hardware, drivers, software.
It's the same for Iphone or any of the console game machines. It's one piece of hardware that is always the same making it easier to plan things for and develop things for. Which ends up meaning a higher perception of quality from the consumers due to lack of glitches and crashes.
Hence Apple's commercials saying how often PCs crash and stuff. They crash because PCs have way more variables as far as hardware and drivers than Macs have making many more incompatibilities.
Microsoft will probably allow other hardware once WP7 has a good name going in the consumers eyes.
Shasarak said:
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. QSD8672 is targeted at smartbooks but msm8xxx is designed to power both smarphones and smartbooks. Besides OMAP4 and tegra2 are powerful but still we can expect smartphones based on those platforms next year.
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think so too. More hardware platforms mean more work to do. So I think that support for other hardware platforms will come after they'll finish V1 of WP7 - this way they will just have to port complete full OS from snapdragon to other platform.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my bad. I thought snapdragon is a processor.
its known to have a poor gpu so it really worries me that it was used to launch a platform which its main selling point will be gaming and xbox live integration. So people will expect to be blown away with games. Now, as far as the UI, its flawless when the OS is concerned but thats not a big deal since the graphical elements are not too taxing, but i saw the negative effects when playing need for speed undercover... it was really a step down when it came to smoothness and graphics IMO even when i remember it performing better in an 500mhz sprint palm pre...
am i missing something?? was it the effect of a dirty port from a ARM cpu made game?? or is this something to be mildly dissapointed about??
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Combination of all that. Dirty port, new platform, and restrictions.
Sidenote PSP phone is on a newer version, but nothing is confirmed.
There are no games that push that CPU so no one is worried. By the time such games come the people who care will be getting ready to buy a new phone anyways. Those people buy anything just cause the specs are better.
Look at how android fans rave about the hummingbird CPU on a platform with relatively poor games and no gourmet accellerated ui, etc......
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
IMO its just going to be like the iPhone. The iPhone 2nd gen can still run most games that the iP4 can... but just with longer load times and lower frame rates.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. ACreed is already on WP7 from the makers of Nova.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
mike21pr said:
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
I do not know if you remember this but before Qualcomm bought out the ATI mobile solutions division HTC had real trouble with the gfx card drivers due to laziness and licensing. This issue was present up until only the last few 6.5 devices that were made. Instantly this CPU/GPU was regarded as better but still not there yet (HD2). Qualcomms own presentations showed the chip running at much more potential.
Simply put. MS realised that HTC cant write drivers to save their lives,(homebrew projects were started by the community to save devices such as the X1 etc) so they wrote their own.
This might not be the best example but if you check videos of side by side comparisons (Nexus S vs Focus/Omnia 7) you will see that WP7 manages to be more fluid displaying websites then a Hummingbird Android combo.
I believe the chip hasn't been used to its full potential yet. If it will be fully utilized in a years time for lets say games... is debatable.
VonCrisp said:
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to that, I think a lot of performance depends on the software running on top of it. For example, everyone gets caught up in the powerhouse specs of Android--but maybe because Android is a custom version of Linux the software is 'heavier' and it requires a lot of power from the CPU. Meanwhile, WP7 software seems to be running much faster than Android on a slower CPU and that is most likely because Microsoft has done a fantastic job of keeping the OS optimized for the hardware and maybe even hardware accelerated (to use the CPU's full potential).
It's like viewing a picture with Photoshop versus viewing a picture with a default Photo Viewer. On a fast computer, the speed difference between opening either one is probably not a big deal. But on a slower computer, Photoshop will take longer to open than the Photo Viewer. Both programs are identical on both computers, but the Photo Viewer has less to load and was designed to open faster than Photoshop.
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
WP7 features the SnapDragon SoC AND an Adreno 200 GPU. The GPU is the one handling the animations and such while the CPU focuses on the rest. Now I'm not saying it's a speed monster, but it's more than enough.
@Above: Alot of Android phones are still plagued by choppiness, not by Android itself, but by the Skins OEMs put on it. Motorola is the notorious one. But consumers do not know and will blame android for it instead.
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who can't get around their phone fast? Android and RIM. Let's be realistic, in terms of GPU, both Oses are poor. I mean REALLY poor.
The load test is a bit difficult for a lot of reasons. Most of the wp7 devices uses microsd card and that has been KNOWN to attribute to slow loading, not as much as the cpu/gpu. Also is there an objective test that loads the same 3 games on the three smartphone platforms? It's no question apple would be first using flash based storage, it is meant to poll data at a faster rate than microsd card.
secondly, microsoft does have support for real time gaming and a few more details due to using CE7 core
Check more about that
http://wmpoweruser.com/wm7-is-ce7/
recently however, the news story has been verified that CE7 is underlying wp7 not CE6 with bits of CE7
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we saw real time gaming as early as next year on wp7 platform
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think snapdragon is terrible either. It's been underutilized but not terrible by any means. I also agree that a lot of the reasons there is horrid runtimes is because it is a fast port and the port isn't Optimized for wp7. Microsoft has done an unbelievable job for the porting process, but developers just stop there. There is no further optimization sadly and that is a shame
While I think a better processor would be ideal, I don't think its gonna be a problem for WP7. You see the thing about Android is that it REQUIRES all these specs that the fanboys rave over to run smoother. WP7 is already there. Android has a bigger footprint than WP7 and requires more power. This is the problem with android and gaming. I have Angry Birds on my phone, Moto Cliq, and it loads slowly and plays poorly. I deleted because I can't play a game a 2fps.
^ see what I mean you blame the OS because of your phone. That's not Androids fault, put those exact same Motorola Cliq specs in a WP7 device and you will have the same result.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Who said anything about microSD chips?
CE7 supports multiplayer gaming, WP7 itself doesn't. Right now at this very moment it is impossible to play a realtime multiplayer game on WP7. Its a pipe dream right now.
You can say potentially the January update will correct this, and I can say potentially WP7 will launch the next NASA mission.
Another thing why do you guys have to mention the fault of another OS but brush off the faults of WP7 as if its acceptable?
vetvito said:
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
says the resident wp7 hater...
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
nrfitchett4 said:
says the resident wp7 hater...
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I switched to WP7. I have a vibrant and while I LOVED the screen, I felt it was pointless because there was not enough great games out on android. N.O.V.A. dragon age, and asphalt were awesome and alot of fun but those had to be bought directly from the gameloft app store. Why is that? Becasue the android market / platform has terrible security. Developers don't want to spend a long time creating an awesome game and then have it pirated a couple hours later.
Overall I already have much better games on my WP7 device. All my friends with galaxy S series phones can't believe the games I have on it in terms of quality and quantity.
I don't get the big buzz about angry birds also, its simple and fun for a little bit, but don't you think its quite repetitive? I knew I never once pulled out my vibrant thinking "lets play angry birds" after I beat it the first time.
Android does have the best hardware for games (nothing even comes close) however, the apps just aren't there, so who is to blame? The OEMs or the OS? I'd say the OS.
The only thing that beats WP7 in the games department is the iPhone. This is only true because of how long it has been out and it has the biggest market share. As a developer you developer programs for the largest group of potential buyers. Android does not factor in because it has a culture of having free apps and "free" apps. The latter being the reason why top game developers stay away.
so far i havnt seen anything from the 1ghz snapdragon processor to make me thnk its great. yes the wp7 interface is fast and fluid but the games themselves do not run as fluidly as i would like. despite having a 1ghz processor like the iphone, wp7 games dont seem to be as smooth probably running at 25 fps while i phone games look like they are running closer to 60 fps. im waiting for ilmilo milo or what ever its called to confrim this as so far it looks liek the smoothest wp7 game. rocket riot is currently the smoothest ive seen on wp7.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bootup, scroll, loading of native programs...I think that's a bit hefty right there
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. link?
2. was the game loaded on nand or sd card? Do we need to go through this ad nauseum? Nand is faster than sd card there is no question about that. However, in general sd card loading is SLOW. Period
3. You also fail to take into account graphic detail. let's be realistic. Windows Phone 7 does look better, and is larger than android games. Heck the Acreed game looks antiquated on android...and that's on the best android device
OK OP question has been answered. Thread gone to opinionated bias people who don't like facts. Opinion after opinion. Where are the facts?
Dude said Android has only one game that they can play against IOS, shaking my head. Then another guy says scrolling is faster when I asked what can you do faster, is that your best answer? Shaking my head. After that he said ACreed looks antique on Android, when in fact its the exact same game. I give up because you guys are not willing to accept faults and facts.
Enjoy your fantasy world, and let the shameless name calling continue.
I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.
No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?
^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.
Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.
I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.
I am seeing all of these crazy quad core android leaks now and windows phone will get even more behind in specs. Look i know that most apps wont even utilize the quad core, there are barely any apps that do dual core but Apollo better be groundbreaking and allow quad core cause that is where MS needs to compete. At this rate i think the next iPhone too will be outdated on release.
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
svtfmook said:
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely unnecessary? Definitely, wanted by many? Hell yes
svtfmook said:
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My concern is with heat dissipation with all that processor power. In addition to my DVP, I have a MyTouch4G Slide - 1.2 ghz dual core - and it can get hot when you are using it. I am curious to see what the longevity of these 1st gen dual cores are based on my experience with the heat. My DVP seldom gets hot, neither did my nexus one for that matter. Just a thought...........
smoked by a windows phone
Haven't you seen any of the Smoked By Windows Phone challenges? A Windows phone is faster than any of the android or iphones out there with dual core processors. IMO thats saying something.
I'm kinda fed up by these donkheads using Android who talks about nothing but specs. You can put WHATEVER you want in that ****ing OS and it will still not run smooth because IT IS NOT OPTIMIZED FOR ****.
aren't these new procs supposed to be more efficient and cooler than the previous batch?
Its stupid that android is desperately trying to become more and more like a desktop PC.
michael_chea7 said:
Haven't you seen any of the Smoked By Windows Phone challenges? A Windows phone is faster than any of the android or iphones out there with dual core processors. IMO thats saying something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stitch a panorama? Smoked.
Shoot 1080? Ditto.
Higher CPU needs are coming ...
emjlr3 said:
aren't these new procs supposed to be more efficient and cooler than the previous batch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally, yes.
lovenokia said:
I am seeing all of these crazy quad core android leaks now and windows phone will get even more behind in specs. Look i know that most apps wont even utilize the quad core, there are barely any apps that do dual core but Apollo better be groundbreaking and allow quad core cause that is where MS needs to compete. At this rate i think the next iPhone too will be outdated on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quad cores are nice and stuff but they suck up a lot of battery power add that to the already 4G sucking up most of it and you get a phone that you have to charge every few hours a day. It's like a laptop with a cell phone battery.
ohgood said:
Stitch a panorama? Smoked.
Shoot 1080? Ditto.
Higher CPU needs are coming ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gimmick gimmick gimmick
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Its stupid that android is desperately trying to become more and more like a desktop PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This comment is ridiculous when you remember windows phone 8 is a desktop OS on a phone. well at least the kernel.
Quad cores however, are not needed on a phone at this point of time. Tablets yes, phones no. But to all that worry, Apollo is coming out this year
jz9833 said:
This comment is ridiculous when you remember windows phone 8 is a desktop OS on a phone. well at least the kernel.
Quad cores however, are not needed on a phone at this point of time. Tablets yes, phones no. But to all that worry, Apollo is coming out this year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well u know what I mean, I meant it by the hardware standpoint.
I do think that Windows Phone needs to enter the dual core market for the gaming segment. Quad core is not necessary now and I suspect the Android market will not be dominated by quad cores in 2012.
But we do have to face facts, if (and I am not saying this is indeed a fact) the consumer wants a dual core then sales will not be where you want them to be if you are pushing out single cores. And so on. Imagine an OEM only making 3.2MP point and shoot cameras because that is enough to print on 8.5x11.
nicksti said:
I do think that Windows Phone needs to enter the dual core market for the gaming segment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's exactly what I was going to say.... Xbox live titles are pretty good and they are getting better but, still not even close to some RPGs or Rage on the iphone or Android for graphics detail, quality and game play.
Xbox live is a brand that is known for great games, As a gamer, I am disapointed in the offerings given on my WP7 device. They are good but, not great.
Quad cores are just too much (battery and heat are the big ones), crap, to do better games, just give a better GPU, no quad core or even dual core is needed in most cases.
DavidinCT said:
It's exactly what I was going to say.... Xbox live titles are pretty good and they are getting better but, still not even close to some RPGs or Rage on the iphone or Android for graphics detail, quality and game play.
Xbox live is a brand that is known for great games, As a gamer, I am disapointed in the offerings given on my WP7 device. They are good but, not great.
Quad cores are just too much (battery and heat are the big ones), crap, to do better games, just give a better GPU, no quad core or even dual core is needed in most cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely agree, this is exactly why my device thats near on 2.5 YEARS old still kicks the balls off devices made yesterday
However, graphically intensive tasks are hampered by its aging Adreno 200 GPU
I believe the younger brother of my phone the HD7 had the Adreno 205 which gave it a significant bump, personally, i want the S3 Snapdragons, not for the multiple cores but the new Adreno 220/225.
The old S1 processor in my thing is still standing true, shoving 3 or even another 1 core in it is going to make the square route of bugger all difference in my every day needs.
The only reason for WP7 to have more CPU power is for gaming (and for the spec sheets of course). I am sure Apollo will bring multi-core support which will enable even better games. As it goes, some of the xbox live titles are fairly impressive, but there are games on other platforms which are significantly better due to the power available.
The only thing I have seen mentioned in this thread that is worth having more power for other than games, is 1080p video recording. It definitely does make a difference - I have a camera that does 1080p and it is very very nice. Cant wait for that, although I have a sneaky feeling that the second gen devices could do it if the software allowed it - correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, don't change Windows Phone! Keep it as it has always been. The first Gen devices from two years ago are sufficient, so there is no need for improvement! You see how great they sell!
Maybe quad core is a bit much on a phone (whereas I could imagine having one in my tablet), but if it improves multitasking, saves battery at the same time and makes speedier cameras, faster web browsing and better games possible- then fine, give the people the chance to buy these devices. Not everyone may need them (they buy the middle class models with the last gen hardware) but there definitely is a market.
And yes, imo Android devices are way faster than WP7 devices, equally smooth and offer a superior interface which looks better and offers far more options - a matter of taste!
Arjoma said:
... You see how great they sell! ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You ignore the fact that most sales people completely ignore selling WP7 over the easy sell of Android and iOS.
And yes, imo Android devices are way faster than WP7 devices, equally smooth and offer a superior interface which looks better and offers far more options - a matter of taste!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry... seen way too many laggy Android ROMs and devices to fully believe this statement. Whereas, every WP7 device has been consistently smooth. Superior interface is purely subjective.