Related
I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states
I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!
awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out
That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.
Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.
Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!
Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune
francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]
I am fully aware that the WP7 updates thusfar have been quite terrible but it now seems that there are more people posting here purely for the sake of bashing WP7 than ever. Of course when it is addressed most of them say "I run it on my blahblah and it's nice but I just wish it could be better." Why not mention some of those nice points. The phone may not have a billion different settings to change and all the different options other OSes have but what it does do it does better than any other OS out there and I'll take quality over quantity any day. The only complaint I've had thusfar about WP7 and the only thing I dislike about it is the update system, but I can look past it as after switching to WP7 every other OS just feels lesser. WP7 has some flaws but the majority, aside from multi-tasking, are heavily exaggerated. I know some people want to stream pandora and text and I'm sure that sucks but we all knew that was there when we got the device and Microsoft is addressing the issue. I just want to know, why spend most of your time lounging around a forum for something you so greatly dislike? I mean, I don't visit the android forums and post hate messages there. Are some people just that wanton to hate?
1. the vocal and critical few on the internet do not represent the numbers out in the real world.
2. it's human nature to stay silent when all is good, but raise hell when it's not.
Michael.
Like Mike above me said, the trolls are out there to do exactly what you're witnessing on these forums.
And no one attracts more trolls than Microsoft.
Put two and two together and you get this
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's me! Ex WM user, and chef.
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.
orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't have said it better myself. I actually wouldn't have bothered to say it myself. But since you said, I'll back it up. WP7 owner here, and my posting history is full of positive sayings about WP7. But, since I'm not a fanboy or loyalist and am rational minded, my posting history is also full of negative things about WP7.
I would rather read from a poster who isn't afraid to tell the truth of the matter; who won't cow down to the fanboys or loyalist...who just adore causing all kinds of trouble and having innocent people labeled negative things. In a situation like that, when they expect me to back off, I charge full steam ahead and ram right through all of the bull****. That's my nature.
Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.
orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.
orangekid said:
and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.
munkeyphyst said:
Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.
vangrieg said:
Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7
Human Nature
I go all the way back to MS-Dos and PC-Dos and have been an MS user that entire time. It has been a love/hate relationship at times, well, maybe hate is too strong a word. Frustration might be better. Most people have been with MS at some time in their lives and probably have been frustrated from time to time. This update fiasco falls into the category of "I want this to succeed but, damn, it's the same old MS shooting themselves in the foot and working like hell to make sure this fails". We are just frustrated is all. Their success in keeping us as customers for so long just assures that we have all experienced some sort of frustration.
The sad thing about this whole update fiasco is that someone at MS actually DESIGNED this process, believed it was a good idea, committed it to a contract with carriers, and then signed off on it, to provide users with this wonderful, world class experience. It provides us with another example of the caliber of people who manage these companies. And I like MS!!!!! They just need to get out of their own way.
It's not so much an update fiasco as typical Microsoft PR bleeding, IMO. But they've always been miserably bad at it.
orangekid said:
I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came to WP7 via iPhone so I'm much more tolerant with regard to restrictions and such stuff. I've also learned to appreciate the "consumer electronics" grade quality, so pretty much accepted the rigidness as the better of the two options. It's not for everyone and of course not for everyone here, but there certainly is simething in the idea.
Otherwise, it's hard to disagree that it does have a ton of drawbacks and even though I'm very satisfied with my Mozart I never recommend it to friends and family who come to me for smartphone advice.
That's my attitude towards WP7 in a nutshell. Yet I'm really annoyed that it's almost impossible to find a thread here without hate posts in it.
z33dev33l said:
I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, these posts create as much hate as beeing fanboy.
You see, what you write here is that because YOU don't need something thus it's just stupid or pointless.
The problem is modern OS of any kind today supports MANY DIFFERENT preferences. It supports many different needs, whether you're a "geek" or typical "consumer. You don't like custom rings? So don't use them! It's not only about what you like. It's about general audience.
The problem with WP7 - the biggest one - is that it's not versatile at all.
It's designed to be one way. And however you will try again to convince me that WP7 is so customizable, indeed - it's not. The limitations designed here are horrible.
The upcoming update - NoDo - is not going to resolve anything besides c & p.
And the Mango, well - if it would be April I would say "I'm in!".
But it will be December. Or later.
I just realized it's the first smartphone for 6 years I have which I can't take alone for - let's say - 2 weeks without bringing my laptop together. There are so so many things WP7 is refusing to do. And I even have no guarantee of having them ever back.
I am the user of WP7. Use it all the time. I always have one smartphone as a "super agent". I'm used to the fact that a pocket device almost completely replaces PC when needed. WP7 doesn't do that.
I just discovered few days ago that I really don't like it. I loved it for 3 months - smooth, simple, sexy. But it's half empty inside. This system is really really stupid right now. I could spend huge amount of space here naming these lacks which currently are very annoying.
I was using Android for few weeks only. Didn't really like those flashy graphics so I've chosen WP7, a perfect UI and a promise of a super ecosystem.
But now I see clearly - maybe it will happen next year, maybe.
But maybe not. Current Android 2.3 is exactly what WM was supposed to be, sorry to say that. I can stand those layers of colours and shapes, because I will be able to do whatever I want and more. Yes, a step forward from WM. WP7 makes it all dumber.
So I'm not selling my WP7 just yet but I'm getting Android in 2 weeks about.
Will see how how it goes...
As for WP7 I really hoped all this buzz and amazing PROMISE this OS initially gives will be fulfilled soon. Now a huge disappointment.
I haven't read the posts before mine but I would say most of the people hating on WP7 are owners who are pissed off about the bugs, lack of updates and lack of communication. I find this fair.
orangekid said:
you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
orangekid said:
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but now you're assuming that I want buns
munkeyphyst said:
Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
but now you're assuming that I want buns
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you don't want buns, you have a complaint
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.
Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.
I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.
nevermind................
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.
lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."
I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.
mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?
All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.
@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.
Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy
Ok well a guy I work with has a Samsung Focus, pretty decent device. BTW this is the only person I know that has a windows phone. ATT gave him the Focus free because of him having problems with his previous dumb phone. That was nice of ATT.
So recently this guy told me that the Focus has been giving him problems of late and he is hating it, like when he opens the camera and press the camera button the phone restarts.
So another guy I work with sold him an iphone 3g as a backup. So he goes home and plays with a non activated iphone 3g and he is wowed by the 3g. He told me how he downloaded apps and the phone was so fun without it even being activated. Now he wants an iphone which is fine because WP didnt win him over. They lost a user by ATT even giving him the WP device for free.
One thing I have noticed is that people tend to follow the fad. Siri is nice, which makes Tellme have a lot of work to do. I stand behind Windows Phone and will continue to. Everyone I know either are a Android or iphone user besides my cousin who is still a Symbian user but im slowly converting him over to Windows phone with the Nokia device.
My question is, how will WP overcome the competition or will they ever. They have a long way to go keeping up with the competition and passing them up. What will Windows offer that will appeal to more users? How will Windows wow people?
I have a kid that had an iPhone 3GS and Apple swapped her 3GS *FIVE* times, because all of them would either reboot, drop service, etc, etc. Got her an HTC Surround and she loves it. Couple weeks ago she dropped her surround and cracked the display. I asked her if she wanted to switch back to using her iPhone 3GS and she said "not thanks, I'd rather user this one with a cracked screen than my iPhone".
Molly Wood obviously got a problematic HTC Trohpy when she did her review, as she said it rebooted once to twice a day. Anyone who has a Windows Phone 7 knows that they are very stable and if you have one with issues, its probably HW related. The iPhone is considered a fairly stable platform, yet you hear problems all the time of stability and signal issues. All platforms have hardware issues and its how the carriers and OEM deal with this is really what is the big impact.
I have an InfiniTV that has never had an issue, yet I ordered one for a friend and his stops working every once in a while. Again, probably bad hardware.
My best friend works for AT&T as a floor sales person and I was talking to him about Windows Phone. He said the reason that he doesn't push them is that they have a high return rate. I asked him if it was because the OS is poor or that it was different from Android and iOS and he said he didn't really know.
I was showing a good friend of mine my focus yesterday and he really liked it. However, when he went into T-Mobile, he got an Android "because it was cheap and did what he needed". Both of my kids have Windows Phone and all of their friends with Android and iPhones say they wish they had a Windows Phone. None of them have switched, though.
And Siri? Lets just say "No Sir-e". Android, iPhone and Windows Phone all have voice commands. When was the last time you saw someone use them? Probably sames answer as when was the last time you saw someone else with a Windows Phone.... Voice commands are cool, but not actually used much, yet?
Different people have different views about how to use their phone.
Siri is a nice feature, but you don't use it all the time.
I bet 99% people here used to love playing around with Voice Features when it first came out, but then they find themselves hardly use it. I know i did.
People would find themsleves a suitable device and OS, because it really depends on how they use it, how much they have, which features they want, and how it helps their life. Everone has a different taste, just like when you say the HD2 is too big and then a lot of people still love it.
You never expected the phone gonna answer you the whole thing you throw to it, so don't depend on it, they don't have a human brain to reconize everything we said from slang... pros vocabs and a supersmart and large database to give you the answer. Just pull it out from your pocket, spend 5s to type it in Bing Search doesn't make your world end. And it isn't always suitable to speak to the phone, some craps like "i need a bathroom" you will never speak it in front of people... most people prefer to deal with it by their own and in silent.
WP7 has Microsoft TellMe, but i hardly use it, mostly, i just enable it to read messege for me when i play games "in my own room".
But i agree, Tellme need to be upgraded, and Microsoft just published a new video about it. Look impressive to me.
I am no fan of apple product, but siri seems to have some real potential. At the release, people are disappointed because they thought it was just voice control. But actually I think it's not. Controlling the phone with voice is not a brand new idea, just like touch screen was not brand new when iphone was released. I might be wrong, but I feel Google and Microsoft will be following up on this idea.
If you hear about more people with iPhone issues than WP7 issues, it might be due to the fact that there are about 30 times as many iPhones as there are WP7 devices in circulation.
And I think is just a bit disingenuous to put the voice command features of WP7 and Android in the same league as Siri (not directed at you, resol341). Yes, they will get there, but they aren't there today. They aren't even close.
I agree, voice features are nice to have, but all I use on my Titan is the read out text thing when in the car ( which is very useful), thing is though Siri just looks really neat and will impress people enough that it will significantly add to the reasons to buy an iPhone. Microsoft is still playing catch up even after mango, they need to overhaul the competion with some killer features if they want to get mindshare, time is limited.
From another thread.
I had a friendly WP7 vs Siri Face-off today at work. It was actually pretty funny. I can't remember everything that was said, but it did involve:
"Naked Football Statistics" (WP) weather reports of Clear during a thunderstorm (Siri), Escorts to the Vikings-Bears game (WP), I can't answer that or I don't know what you mean every other question (Siri), "There are no nearby adult services" (Siri) and "Bubble, Bladder shoe powder" (WP).
Not to mention... WP won't cuss when sending a text. Gives you, "No [email protected]!" instead of No ****. Siri will cuss. And, Siri read that obscured expletive as, "Dollar sign at".
Siri also didn't know what my co-worker meant by LMFAO. WP sends lol as L-o-l. But, if it receives it as lol, it says, "laugh out loud". While siri says, "Lawl".
We spent about 30 minutes doing this as we weren't too busy. It was pretty funny all the crazy stuff coming from the two platforms.
They both got a lot of things right and did pretty well but they definitely got things wrong. Overall, they turned out to be roughly the same in their understanding of spoken phrases and repeating said phrases.
In the end, Siri's biggest advantage was that it has more commands at its disposal than Windows Phone allowing some context in questions and search. Whereas, windows phone is fairly straight forward and has less commands. That being said, believe it or not, they're fairly equal in capabilities.
Wyn6 said:
From another thread.
I had a friendly WP7 vs Siri Face-off today at work. It was actually pretty funny. I can't remember everything that was said, but it did involve:
"Naked Football Statistics" (WP) weather reports of Clear during a thunderstorm (Siri), Escorts to the Vikings-Bears game (WP), I can't answer that or I don't know what you mean every other question (Siri), "There are no nearby adult services" (Siri) and "Bubble, Bladder shoe powder" (WP).
Not to mention... WP won't cuss when sending a text. Gives you, "No [email protected]!" instead of No ****. Siri will cuss. And, Siri read that obscured expletive as, "Dollar sign at".
Siri also didn't know what my co-worker meant by LMFAO. WP sends lol as L-o-l. But, if it receives it as lol, it says, "laugh out loud". While siri says, "Lawl".
We spent about 30 minutes doing this as we weren't too busy. It was pretty funny all the crazy stuff coming from the two platforms.
They both got a lot of things right and did pretty well but they definitely got things wrong. Overall, they turned out to be roughly the same in their understanding of spoken phrases and repeating said phrases.
In the end, Siri's biggest advantage was that it has more commands at its disposal than Windows Phone allowing some context in questions and search. Whereas, windows phone is fairly straight forward and has less commands. That being said, believe it or not, they're fairly equal in capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then i would say Siri has more command but Bing on Windows Phone is a smart searching engine.
The title has nothing to do with the actual thread as from the story the guy was wowed by an iPhone 3G so that has nothing to do with Siri.
This is the real issue... Even without Siri people would still go and buy the iPhone 4S, that has nothing to do with voice command.
Windows Phone is great, the UI is smooth, it rarely crashes (well except on HTC phones it seems) and integrates social quite well. However for most people, once the first 2-3 weeks are gone the novelty comes from apps and games and these are not there on WP. If you need a particular app for your phone, you will definitely find it on iOS and will probably find it on Android. It's very unlikely you will find it on WP unless it's a very popular app and even then there's no guarantee. A typical conversation between a WP an a android/iPhone user goes like this:
- Let me call you, do you have skype?
- It's not available yet (no one cares if it's "coming")
- How about Tango?
- Not there either but I have WhatsApp
- Alright, fine
- Do you have "X" app? It's pretty great
- Nope
- How about "X" game? It will blow you away
- Neither but I do have Xbox Live on my phone
- Cool, I have an Xbox 360, what games do you get on the phone?
- (better not to mention)
Rince and repeat the last bit with facebook and Zune. It's nice to have if you're into these things but it's not groundbreaking.
Most people get their phone on a 2 years contract, they don't want a phone that's just nice and promises more apps and games, they can just get that phone in 2 years time!
I was definitely going to recommend WP to my friends after Mango but the truth is there hasn't been an app or game worth downloading in 2 or 3 months so once the novelty wears off they would be pretty bored. My girlfriend has been playing 3 different Angry Birds games on her Nexus S lately and she got them all for free. She has dozens of apps that don't exist on WP so I can't possibly push her towards the platform. Same goes for my gamer friends who have tons of great games on their iPhone. Windows Phone could have competed on price but now you can get an iPhone 3GS for free or an iPhone 4 for 99$ so you would need seriously good arguments.
So all in all the issue isn't just Siri impressing people, it's also Microsoft not having a "Siri feature", i.e. a feature that makes you go "I want that phone".
RoboDad said:
If you hear about more people with iPhone issues than WP7 issues, it might be due to the fact that there are about 30 times as many iPhones as there are WP7 devices in circulation.
And I think is just a bit disingenuous to put the voice command features of WP7 and Android in the same league as Siri (not directed at you, resol341). Yes, they will get there, but they aren't there today. They aren't even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has microsoft finally released sales figures for wp7, or is this speculation ? 30:1 seems quite high on the wp side.
No the guy wants a 4s. The guy who sold him the 3g upgraded to the 4s and he saw that. He doesn't want the 3g as his primary.
Lets be real the only reason the 4s is selling crazy like it is because of the iPhone reputation and siri. No one cares about the dual core and obviously a bigger screen didn't matter wither in which plenty of people gripped about.
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
937dytboi said:
No the guy wants a 4s. The guy who sold him the 3g upgraded to the 4s and he saw that. He doesn't want the 3g as his primary.
Lets be real the only reason the 4s is selling crazy like it is because of the iPhone reputation and siri. No one cares about the dual core and obviously a bigger screen didn't matter wither in which plenty of people gripped about.
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people buy the iPhone for its status symbol... they want to be in line for 4 days, show off their brand new iPhone and use about 1% of its abilities.
You do have a number of geeks, nerds and power users that make the best of a great smartphone like the iPhone, but the majority of them are just sheep, that buy into a trent or very well marketed brand (where MS needs to seriously catch up).
937dytboi said:
No the guy wants a 4s. The guy who sold him the 3g upgraded to the 4s and he saw that. He doesn't want the 3g as his primary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter. The point is when he tried an iPhone he knew he wanted that. Now he wants the 4S most likely because it's the latest iPhone but his choice of OS was already made so this has nothing to do with Siri to start with.
4 million in 3 days is freaking amazing.
The biggest let down around here, has become the highest selling.
Remember we don't need dual cores, stupid app launcher OS, and only one device with a small screen.
vetvito said:
4 million in 3 days is freaking amazing.
The biggest let down around here, has become the highest selling.
Remember we don't need dual cores, stupid app launcher OS, and only one device with a small screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is impressive, but not unexpected. Now that Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T all have the iPhone, it's a guaranteed record breaker.
In all honesty though, who really cares? I prefer to have what I think is best for me. I do not care what anyone else thinks of my phone. I do go through phones quickly because I am addicted to technology and just like to keep up with it. I would never buy a phone so that I can prove to the world how cool I am.
I think Siri is great technology (even if Apple didn't really develop it). I also know that it is something I would only use when trying to impress others. I am not one to broadcast what I am doing on my phone out loud. There are few scenarios where voice control would appeal to me. But, this technology is important and needs to continue developing and improving.
I tried Siri in my natural language (Italian) and it couldn't even place a phone call or open an application. I didn't read any manual about it, but it tried saying phrases like "Call <Name>" or "text <someone>" or "open mail" or "search for <thing>". And it never worked!
Never had such problem with WP7.5, except for once when I tried to "search for GLEE" and it opened Bing searching for "teen ass" :-/
Wyn6 said:
In the end, Siri's biggest advantage was that it has more commands at its disposal than Windows Phone allowing some context in questions and search. Whereas, windows phone is fairly straight forward and has less commands. That being said, believe it or not, they're fairly equal in capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're kidding, right?
Can you schedule an appointment or set a location-specific reminder with WP7's voice commands?
Sure, WP7 can find a few things on Bing searches, but that is only a small part of Siri. It is integrated into the OS on a much deeper level than Tellme, and can do a lot more. They are not fairly equal.
No, sir. I'm not kidding. Fairly equal doesn't mean exactly equal. Siri can do a few more things than WP can do as I stated. But, having watched/listened to the tech firsthand, it doesn't do a ton more than WP does. I'm not saying it isn't better I'm just saying it isn't overwhelmingly superior as some believe.
My post above was anecdotal and not really a comparison of which was better. It was more me dwelling on the humorous things that both of the services came up with when asked to do certain tasks. Siri may have more commands but it's understanding of what a user is saying doesn't really surpass WP per se.
But, just for you, Robodad ... when I go back to work tomorrow, I'll play with it some more and see if we missed something. Although, she had me playing a game of Words with Friends against her brother-in-law. So, Siri experimentation might take a backseat.
Wyn6 said:
That being said, believe it or not, they're fairly equal in capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I played with both, there is no comparison.
Also, day to day usage is a big plus, as far as voice commands go. Its possible to navigate to a friends house, txt them you're on the way, and check traffic without much hassle. Pretty badass from a phone.
Where's that speach to text video that was so laughable not long ago....
kevyn82 said:
I tried Siri in my natural language (Italian) and it couldn't even place a phone call or open an application. I didn't read any manual about it, but it tried saying phrases like "Call <Name>" or "text <someone>" or "open mail" or "search for <thing>". And it never worked!
Never had such problem with WP7.5, except for once when I tried to "search for GLEE" and it opened Bing searching for "teen ass" :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why i love Bing/TellMe/windows phone, it knows what i want
Hi,
So this is a post to say how I have become disillusioned with my WP7.5 device.
I love the HD7 with WP7.5, for what it does, it does it well and it fits my one required:
"Feels like a well integrated phone device"
Unlike Android phones which feel like I am looking at a nerdy linux desktop (which is cool) but I just want to use a device that feels like a single device.
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
My device is great but the OS has flaws, like why the hell is there one volume for all OS sections?
Why is when I look at a contact the phone number (the most important bit) is a tiny font?
There is a raft of other stuff like that out there. Other stuff it does really well though and I have always been impressed by it which is why I will keep my device and use it for development but I will be honest, I have a Sony Xperia S phone as well now which is getting rooted tonight and may well end up in more use.
Cool Story, So...
So if you want to take hours off your life, meaninglessly tweaking your phone's OS, then you're so in the wrong boat. I ran myself so wacko for almost 2 years on Android, and WM before it. So I'm quite happy with life this way. The white-on-black theme in most apps makes the text stand out so much better to me, regardless of size.
So I also don't understand why you're so concerned about not being able to see a contact's phone number so well. It says so in big white letters above it, "Call Mobile" (etc.). So if you want to call them by number then open the dial pad instead.
So I actually love the one-for-all volume setting, as opposed to the Android "Media volume", that you can't even readily control unless / until you're playing something (except if you opt for a battery-sucking widget to track it)... then good luck remembering where you last left it.
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
My 15 month old HD7 still works, even after hearing about IOS6, Jellybean, and me only getting 7.8 instead of WP8....sorry to hear about yours ....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Arthur Hucksake said:
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
I agree with ballanda123 about the phone number font, "call to mobile" has a big font, you can easily press it
creamy said:
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you CAN do that. That is my point. You have the option of customising everything, including the software on the handset.
I have a HTC Titan btw, so i'm not a fandroid. I just don't see how having real options as being a bad thing.
I think the OP has a point - WP could use another Mango-style update, where MS fix lots of minor issues.
e.g. two small issues that I come across every day:
When I forward an email, I cannot edit the original text. I use copy and paste as a workaround - anyone else got a better solution?
Agree with OP about the volume controls. My WP is now my main portable audio player, either with headphones or standalone speaker. I have to keep the volume high because the headphone jack volume is relatively low. System sounds, such as calendar alerts, become very loud! Maybe some type of normalisation could also fix this.
It's basically a symptom of WP being a new OS, with only one major update so far since launch. Hopefully, MS will address the small issues in WP8 as well as adding headline features.
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Come on, HOW hard can it be to at least make a list of features we don't have compared to other OS and add a few on top of it.
If WP8 after all these backlash, WP7.8 fiasco and kernel change melodrama is still going to be a catch waste game, I am happy with my WP7.5 Titan. Can't keep shelling out money in hope of "In future we will have..."
As long as OP's post goes - I partially agree. If certain features don't rock your boat, it just doesn't. He hasn't made those stereotypical post about 'oh my days, I don't have that bird games latest version, I hate the phone'.
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
fatclue said:
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
agree with drupad. i still love my titan and the screen and smoothness of how it works. when i got the phone everyone was talking about the future and developement and new apps and no fragmentation etc. in one fell swoop all that got swept away.apps like iplayer, tvcatchup,poweramp, banking,don't look like they are going to happen. so many people have their own favorites they are not going to see. i was fortunate in my contract staggers that renewal coincided with my titan and now also my one x(the first android i've owned).i also have a renewal due with w8 release but unless i'm convinced otherwise i'll be looking else where.previous to the titan i was on a TP2. so i've experienced MS OS customer care before.they keep chasing and promising.would be nice to see them deliver.
drupad2drupad said:
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as yours makes sense, it won't happen
drupad2drupad said:
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I vented on the correct thread. Look at the OP, he states he loves his phone but goes on to say how "disillusioned" he is now. What changed? Did he wake up one day and realize he made a bad purchase? Probably not but there a lot of posters who have railed at MS for not giving them what they THOUGHT they were going to get. I'm with you on the PDF situation. As I posted, I'm not going back in unless this primary need is met. But I realized this shortcoming before the announcement last week. I was using a workaround with Handyscan but the camera in the DVP is simply atrocious so that was no longer a suitable option. I miss my Dell but I can't afford to be without this basic function so I'll plod through another year or whatever with WinMo until Adobe gets its act straight. Yes, I blame Adobe because I can attach Handyscan PDF's to email so it ain't Outlook.
finalzero said:
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
finalzero said:
My device is great but the OS has flaws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fatclue said:
You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
WP8 will go hard with features and here's why: it is based on the NT kernel. The NT kernel supports far more hardware and software features than the current CE kernel. Its true that the CE kernel once did have all the features we're clamoring for but with a major performance hit. This won't be the case with the NT kernel.
My primary annoyance with my experience with Android was mainly the constant customization that was available. It was fun for the first couple of months, but I ended up constantly changing things because I couldn't decide on what I liked.
I switched over to WP7 last December and it's been a god-send for me. The design is simple yet effective, and I appreciate how MS limited the amount of customization I could do. It kept me focused on actually enjoying the phone and OS for what it was for once.
magicsquid said:
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
I still enjoy it and most importantly, it works, with it's flaws, it still does most things right.
I just wish MS take note and try to incorporate good bits from other phone OSes. I know they want to go it alone and prove they can build a decent mobile OS but it's still in it's early days (trust me as a developer who has worked with WP7.5 I feel it's got a long way to go).
However Microsoft have a strategy and I am sure with Windows 8 being released into the wild and the zoo we call the "Corporate Enterprise" it should finally come together as a common platform (Microsoft Technology, Microsoft Desktops, Microsoft Mobile Connectivity).
It's a changing landscape as well, don't forget the dawn of the pads is already upon us and again Microsoft was slow to respond (but respond they did with what could be a set of stunning Win8 mobile devices...I hope).
Well I got my Xperia P here and to be honest it's just too cluttered for me, feels like my linux desktop and not a well integrated phone OS (mind you Sony have done a pretty good job at trying to make it feel like a smart phone device).
This leaves me with Apple iPhone 5, which I might consider if it weren't for the fact that I think under all that fluff the stuff is ****. But they have executed the whole package well and if there is one thing the likes of MS and the multitude of Jap Manufacturers can learn it's how to make a consumer device and platform properly.
IF Nokia don't seriously effk things up, the Lumia 900 or the next Nokia WP8 device is on my list.
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
sitizenx said:
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Hope you have some bibs handy.