Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
Wolfas said:
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if the app was created in siverlight/c# which alot of newer apps are then it can be ported to wp7.. For sometime now microsoft has been pushing their silverlight for devolpers to use so if the games you mentioned is bult in silverlight there should be no problem...
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
emuneee said:
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
me eather!!! i am so done with wm 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and its many problems having to flashing rom after rom, restarting the device cause it has no memory left, this list goes on... wp7 is like a breth of fresh air...
Why so negative? WM always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And I wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new OS, as NT-based Windows OS platform is the most popular in PC world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
wolfas said:
why so negative? Wm always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And i wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new os, as nt-based windows os platform is the most popular in pc world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
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Click to collapse
dont get me wrong i not trying to say 6.5 is not for some people just not for me... I think the fact that smartphones moved to a more touch enviroment it seems that the old wm is not as finger friendly and made more for the use of an stylist, to me this type of os seems to not work well on mobile devices for long peorids without a reboot maybe its the way its design or maybe it just have too many things of the desktop enviroment not sure but it gets to be a problem for me, others my not mind. As far as customizing goes well guess you cant have everything.. i personaly would prefer a more stable os than customization, and i am sure additional pc like options will come as well as more customization in the future..
I think the main reason why NT would not make a good mobile OS is simply because it was never designed or meant to run on a mobile device. Your phone is not a computer, so your phone needs an operating environment to suit it's purpose.
The "phone as a computer" approach has been tried by Microsoft, it's called Windows Mobile. While I love Windows Mobile, I have to say, having "Windows NT" on a phone just doesn't make sense.
While it would be cool to play Duke Nukem on your Windows NT mobile device, at the end of the day, you are going to put down your Windows NT phone and just sit at your computer and play Duke Nukem on that. It's just a better overall experience, and Windows NT was designed for that sit-down, productive, huge screen experience. So it wouldn't make sense to invest in a platform that no one would use at the end of the day because their desktop computer does it better.
What you have to do is create an entirely unique and different experience designed for the phone and "on-the-go" life, to complement the Windows NT desktop experience. That is after all, what your phone is for. That's what Windows Phone 7 is.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Windows Phone 7.... phone.... XD
Well, I guess you are right, but I will try once more to support my idea, if you don't mind. I still see some reasons why NT- based mobile OS would be a good idea:
1. There are plenty of popular netbooks, tablet PC's and other relative small devices with full XP, Vista or Win7 OS. All of them are made for on the go experience and still having NT OS. Not even talking about miniature UMPC's. We also often leave these devices unused when we turn on our normal PC's at home, but doesn't prevent them from having huge popularity.
2. Of cource, I do not want to suggest porting normal WinXP to mobile phones (but win98 on my touch pro didn't look half that bad ), but rather something with an UI suited for small screens, but still capable to run any application made for normal Windows.
3. I also think about the interest of developers to this kind of OS. Theorically, there would be no need to learn OS-specific programming, just the things used on any NT OS. Most of the developers who makes programs for PC would be able to make a version for this OS just by changing the resolution, leaving engine just the same.
Please, say your opinion about these things I've pointed out
1. Netbooks and tablets still operate outside of the smartphone arena of capabilities and requirements for most users. There is a reason why there isn't a successful phone running Windows XP. You can write the drivers and software for phone functionality, but at the end of the day NT was not produced with phones in mind.
2. Applications written for desktops are written for desktop processors and memory capacities. Its not a simple change of just resolutions. What if an app request memory that doesn't exist on the mobile device? Chances are the mobile device can't even address that amount of memory. So you design a mobile focused NT kernel...well now all apps can't run on both platforms..so what's the point.
3. Yes you do, because all the capabilities available on a desktop aren't available on a smartphone. Developers still have to keep that in mind when their app is in development.
I sit here looking at my Windows XP work workstation and I would kill myself if I had to use this on a phone. Windows Mobile was hard enough.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I forget the name but there was a secret (ish) project inside Microsoft to make the NT kernel more portable and sorta combine it with the CE kernel. They were basically building off the MinWin work.
But remember, native code still wouldn't be cross platform. x86 and ARM are not binary compatible. Just look at "OSX" on Mac desktops and "OSX" as the base of "iOS". Nothing crosses back and forth.
The NT kernel doesn't scale down that well yet. The kernel land is still full of bidirectional vertical dependencies. The current lowest profile incarnation called MinWin needs like 40MB RAM to boot to a text console and offer next to no APIs and is still shock full of missing dependencies (apparently boot loader magic makes it not break on boot).
Once they're really done despaghettifying, you might see it on mobile devices. But that'll still take a while, because right now, slimming down involves tons of aliasing dependencies to nothing.
Absolutely no reason why they could not run NT on a smart phone but why would they? They already have Windows CE (aka pocket PC) and if MS had been serious about Pocket PC IMHO they would be in a much better market position now.
One of the biggest messups with Pocket PC is the inconsistancy of the user interface and MS failed to revamp the 6.5 completely for touch.... They have a lot of good things going with WM 6.5 but it was an incomplete effort and it shows.
well, I see you are right... That NT is much more complex monster than I thought, thanks for clearing that out Yesterday, I found information about device called xpPhone, I wonder what would you say about it ? http://www.xpphone.com/en/product/specification.html
Related
Hi all,
I ask this question cuz I counldn't find enough information about How to install Linux on my PPC.
My ppc is: I-teq X-bond like as Gigabyte gsmart i. with 64MB ROM.
Is there any linux ROM distribution for my ppc? or general linux ROM distribution for PPCs?
Thanks in advance.
Pedram
The reason you could not find information is because there isn't much of it to be found.
Unfortunately, Linux for PPC is in its infancy. The main problem is the drivers - they all need to be reverse engineered and there is no help from the OEMs as they designed this things to only work with MS crap and seem to have no interest in releasing drivers or specifications.
Official reason: Because you can not mess with the OS the device is more stable and secure.
Real reason: If you need to by new phone to get new OS we make more $$$ and so does MS.
As far as I heard there is a half decent version for some iPaq model, and there is version for some HTC devices (check WiKi) but all it does is boot up: no drivers even for touch screen, no graphical interface, no apps.
Thnx levelnum.
I think if linux developers I mean open source world focus on handheld devices they can publish good distribution as desktop or laptop PCs. Today they are very powerful in reverse engineering, .NET Framework in Linux named MONO is one of these reverse engineering issues.
I believe that Linux is much more customizable that WM, especially for XDA-developers that make interesting works on WM. And also it doesn't have copyright restriction as WM has. So may be it makes many progress in world of handheld devices.
Oddly enough I was looking for Linux on Smartphone info yesterday as I've got an Alpine I'd like to be able to do something interesting with.
Demand for something like this is going to be a bit odd - by definition anyone who finds this site, let alone opens an account and posts, is going to be interested in pushing the boundaries of their device but the vast majority of WM device users are going to be in the "don't care how it works as long as it does" group.
Also, I reckon a lot of Linux dev types aren't even going to look at the device, it will never occur to them to buy one because it's sold as a Windows Mobile device, and hence isn't going to be near their installation of the hacker mentality. Without a critical mass of people who can develop in/with Linux it's always going to be a struggle.
problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....
The Nokia Internet Tablet runs on a version of Linux with a pretty robust set of applications, and this device uses an ARM processor which should be pretty friendly with regard to 'porting'.
But you'd still be stuck without a telephone application.
You can find some information here:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET
http://www.handhelds.org/
Oddly enough I was looking for Linux on Smartphone info yesterday as I've got an Alpine I'd like to be able to do something interesting with.
Demand for something like this is going to be a bit odd - by definition anyone who finds this site, let alone opens an account and posts, is going to be interested in pushing the boundaries of their device but the vast majority of WM device users are going to be in the "don't care how it works as long as it does" group.
Also, I reckon a lot of Linux dev types aren't even going to look at the device, it will never occur to them to buy one because it's sold as a Windows Mobile device, and hence isn't going to be near their installation of the hacker mentality. Without a critical mass of people who can develop in/with Linux it's always going to be a struggle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May be! as you said it is Windows mobile device and linux lovers aren't going around of it. but I think they are so curious than it.
problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do think so. since I in previous post I mentioned that .NET framework available in linux. so many of windows program can run on it.
You can find some information here:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET
http://www.handhelds.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hart (Reverse engineering tool for wm hardware) was interesting tool.
yeah but due to limitations and slowness only the minority of applications on windows mobile are made in .net :S
i want this one
http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html
Regards,
Jason
Rudegar said:
problem is the program base
all current wm programs unless they are .net
would not run under linux on our pda's
new ones would be required to be written
or ported or....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a real problem. If you want to use a particular program from WM that is a problem but why you would do that? There is very large program base for desktop Linux (many of them also exist for desktop Windows) which could be very easily ported to a handheld platform with ARM processor. If you ever looked up how many qualitative programs do exist for Japanese Linux handhelds...
Wexx said:
This is not a real problem. If you want to use a particular program from WM that is a problem but why you would do that? There is very large program base for desktop Linux (many of them also exist for desktop Windows) which could be very easily ported to a handheld platform with ARM processor. If you ever looked up how many qualitative programs do exist for Japanese Linux handhelds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats one of the things that is grate about open source software - you don't even have to depend on the original developer to find the time / will to port it. Anyone with the programing knowledge can.
I have tons pics of the Windows Phone (Mobile) 7 series for those who have been living under a rock for the last couple of days. The pictures exhibit the core of the OS and the UI.
Click on Each Individual Pic to Zoom in
Lock & Home Screen
Web Browser
Zune Music & Video
Pictures Hub
People Hub
Xbox Live Hub
About Windows Phone 7
Microsoft's latest mobile OS behaves completely different from previous iterations which may be a major selling point or a deal breaker. The UI is elegant, simplistic, and fully animated, no other OS is close in comparison. It's innovation at it's finest. Its pretty obvious what type of user MS was aiming towards just by glancing at the screen shots, and you can't blame them. That was how iPhone gained such huge ground.
WinPho 7's interface, codenamed "Metro", is visually similar to the Zune HD. Unlike previous edition of windows mobile, Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel, but it is rather based on said embedded OS. It seems like MS main focus is push notification, social networking and finally integrating their other services like Zune Marketplace and Xbox Live.
Ballmer didn't announce much about the hardware requirements, but he did say that there was a capacitive screen requirement. So gone are the days of using your stylus in Excel, Office, or Bubble Breaker.
What make windows Phone 7 Series stand out is the attention to detail, animations, and overall look of the OS. The keyboard is completely overhauled, it's bigger and translucent. The Lock screen is carried over from the Zune HD, it only displays important notifications like new messages, missed calls, and updated status. Unfortunately it doesn't display appointments. The home screen consists of animated tiles or hubs that serve as links to other features of the OS. The home screen is sorta reminiscent of Androids, by allowing you to pin any App, Contact, Picture, Bookmark, etc.
My OpinionsIt's pretty clear that I like the revisions or I would've denounced it in this post. The animations are uncanny and The overall experience may make it easy to use, but this is just speculation. I own an Xbox 360 and have Live for Windows on my PC so achievements are pretty big to me and it's nice to see MS being the first to integrate such a feature into a mobile device.
As happy as I am, there are still things that have me upset. The home screen just looks bland and flat, couldn't they have added some kind 3D element and why is there no background image? The apps menu only shows one row of apps in alphabetical order, which may make it easier to find app, but may get tedious once your App collection grows. I feel they should have used the same view they have for the contacts in the Apps menu, it would've been leagues better than just one row of apps.
My Question and Conclusion Like a lot of you forum goers, I'm pretty stuck on the fence on this one. Still many things I want to know such as:
How does the OS handle Multitasking?
What level of Customization is available?
Will OEMS be allowed to differentiate themselves from each other?
What about SDK and 3rd party software?
Details on Compatibility with Phones like the HTC HD2, Toshiba TG02 & K01 or other devices releasing in 2010.
What are the Hardware requirements.
What's the fate of Winmo 6.5?
Is there compatibility with Legacy Apps and vice versa?
More info on MS's plan for Cloud computing
How far along are you with flash support?
The name is Windows Phone Series, does that mean there will be other versions of the OS, Maybe a Lite Version for Older Phones?
What about Cabs & File Browsing?
MS's latest revision may look more treacherous than adventurous to "Hardcore" users and fans of Winmo. Love or hate it, this mobile OS isn't finish, there's much to be revealed at MIX10 and we won't see a release date anytime soon
Stay tuned, in a couple days I will have animated gifs that demonstrates the UI animations.
Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
i don't like it
musungus77 said:
i don't like it
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Click to collapse
I didn't at first, but it's growing on me...
circleofomega said:
Whatever it is, I like it a lot. And I would love to have it on my X1....I hope some DevGods try to make it for my X1...
ANd BTW, Thanx for the pix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
musungus77 said:
i don't like it
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Click to collapse
I love the menus of the OS and the way it operates. I just don't like the home screen.
Wow...does no one find these pics interesting? I'm the first to post them to this forum.
krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true; Microsoft could have an unannounced "Windows Phone Professional Series." That would probably be where everyone here would go. Or maybe that's what the current Windows Mobile Professional will be (probably and hopefully not).
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MMM... The Ipod Touch was more application oriented (At least it became app oriented after the iphone and the installer.app became popular) Whilst the Zune HD is more MultiMedia Oriented. Only reason ipods ever win is their app base... my friend has 3 fart apps, a light saber app, and bump... not really...a phone
krjcook said:
Your Welcome. As far as compatibility goes for older Qualcomm 72xx chipset devices like your X1 or the Touch HD, I'm not to sure whether you will get a update. I know I won't, because I have a Palm Treo Pro and Palm just left me dry (No Updates For even Winmo 6.5). MS titled this OS Windows Phone 7 Series. There may be other versions such as a business version or a lite version for users of older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..
Isaygarcia said:
Windows Phone 7 Series = Zune HD + Phone... (what? i heared a similar story before... oh yes.. it is called "iPhone OS", an ipod.. with phone... )
I like the UI, yes.. but i will miss the things that windows mobile had.. like a file explorer (the best file explorer for mobile devices i must say), full customizacion thanks to this community...
All would be better if they just could add special effects to their current UI... (windows mobile with animations and that stuff)...
just saying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait too see what the talented people in this forum can do for this platform. They done leagues to enhance and customize Winmo 6.5
I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.
I must say that before I got my HTC Touch Pro 2 I knew nothing about Windows Mobile. But after visiting this forum and trying a few ROMs I must admit that Windows Mobile is awesome! So, I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with Windows Phone 7 (I really hope this is not the official name of the OS). However, MS has a habit of trying to compete with Apple and I just wish they would forget about Apple and build a rock solid OS.
The first thing I read about WP7 is that it needs a Massive CPU (1ghz). So I thought Oh my god here whe go again, MS needs to rely on high hardware specs again to get the thing going, wich could mean another FAIL programming.
Afther watchting the demo I must say that I like the interface verry much, and I can only hope it will realy be as fast as they want you to believe it is.
I also think it is a good thing that they started from scratch because most (not all) of the old apps are useless anyway. The biggest problem being the wide variaty of phone hardware wich makes in imposible to deliver dedicated-always working-allways equally fast- software. (a problem that the Iphone doesn't have, everything you download is fast, and works) and I only dream that my HTC HD would work that well, but it just doesn't (even with the great custom roms you guys make, the CPU doesn't cut it)
The only thing that I want from a phone is full PC compatibility and SPEED. Thats what windows phone looks like to going to offer, but I also like to be able to put on my phone what I want, and that is a big question mark with this new OS.
addicus said:
I love what I've seen and thanks for the pictures. Here's why I love it. On my 8525 running 6.5.3 I currently install these 3rd party programs: Resco Explorer, Resco Photos, Coreplayer, Icontact, Facebook, Thumbcal, SPB Mobile Shell 3.5, JZ Browser (love it!), Opera Mini 5, Schaps Advanced Configuration, Arcsoft MMS Messenger and Google Maps. That's just the ones I have to put in to feel the phone is great(which it is for when it was made). With the 7 Series I don't think I'd need any of these programs so how much of an improvement has MS made (gigantic!). Not to mention how interactve the hubs are and how easy these programs they have work together. So far so good. I can't wait to get more info at MIX.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I can't wait to see what Features and other hidden Details MS has in store @ MIX10
circleofomega said:
NOw thats wht I am talking about.."The Lite Version"...thst wht I would LOVE to have on X1..but again, its a far fetched dream..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the X1 isn't a great device when compared to the Touch Pro 2. I think Windows Phone 7's requirements don't feature older devices running the Qualcomm 72xx chips.
krjcook said:
Windows Phone 7 isn't powered by Windows CE kernel
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Click to collapse
Really?
Shasarak said:
Really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6
krjcook said:
Yes, Windows Phone 7 doesn't isn't powered by Windows CE 6.0. But like the Zune HD it's based on CE 6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummmm no. I'm not sure what your definition of "powered by" is but in my world "based on" is the same thing (especially in this case).
Windows CE is a modular, embedded operating system that can be customized with tons of various components and then added onto if the developer chooses. In this case, the end developer is Microsoft and they're adding on their own UI, .net, silverlight, etc (not sure how similar the included .net/silverlight in CE6R3 is to WP7).
So basically Microsoft picks and chooses what parts of CE they want to use as a starting point and then adds on. CE is not a "complete" OS in itself really. It is designed exactly for this sort of purpose.
"Powered by", "based on", whatever you want to call it but CE is most certainly the kernel and core of Zune (classic and HD), Windows Phone, etc. It's most likely CE6R3 but could be 6R2 or even CE7.
Can't we upgrade it????
I have X1 and from what I read, it has an old CE..whereas the Win7Phone has CE 7 o something, if its software, can't we upgrade or update it????
circleofomega said:
Can't we upgrade it????
I have X1 and from what I read, it has an old CE..whereas the Win7Phone has CE 7 o something, if its software, can't we upgrade or update it????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't be upgrade as it's completely different kernal.
<<Basic Definition Here>>
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
spannernick said:
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually CE is the main operating system. Windows Mobile is a layer on top of it that includes telephony support and such.
spannernick said:
CE stands for "Compact Edition" I have a HP Jornada 420 that came out in 1999 and has the first version on it,They change it to Windows Mobile when you could use the phone on it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Officially, I don't think CE ever stood for anything until relatively recently when MS decided to rebrand the CE 6.0 kernel "Windows Embedded Compact". MS used to claim it stood for various things like "Compact", "Connected", etc. but they pretty much admit it never meant anything in the beginning.
Also, the Jornada 420 is hardly one of the first CE devices. It is a Palm Size PC that runs CE 2.11 with a color screen for crying out loud! It's at least the 3rd or 4th iteration of hardware designed for the OS. Heck, It isn't even the first release of Pocket PC's predecessor platform, Palm Size PC. Windows CE truly started with the original Handheld PC 1.0 platform back in 1996. Pocket PC and then Windows Mobile is really just another evolution of the original, intentionally crippled Handheld PC spinoff platform known as Palm (Size) PC. It was essentially the Smartphone of its day. Like Smartphone, it began as the intentionally crippled platform for weaker hardware while Handheld PC eventually evolved into a higher end, mini notebook replacement OS with support for USB, high resolutions color screens and faster processors. It is Palm Size PC we have to thank for lacking exit buttons, crippled file/save dialogs and the inability to open a second instance of applications on Windows Mobile. In some ways, my CE 1.0 MobilePro 400 is still feels less crippled and more productive than even the current Windows Mobile 6.5.3 devices. Perfect example: you can open multiple copies of Internet Explorer/Word/Excel/whatever, switch between them and open/save files from any location right out of the box. On the CE 2.0 rom, I can save/open anything to a UNC path over my network. Clearly, MS removing more "advanced" features and intentionally crippling the OS is nothing new when it comes to mainstream, consumer targeted CE platforms. :/ Though, Pocket PC at least retained backwards compatability, multitasking and added Office and IE. I guess Windows Phone 7 Series will just finish up their dream of making the most retardified CE OS possible that Pocket PC/PsPC began all those years ago. At least Vista/7 on the desktop lets you turn retard mode off.
RAMMANN said:
actually CE is the main operating system. Windows Mobile is a layer on top of it that includes telephony support and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's with people and their nebulous definitions of things.
"CE" is the name of the kernel that Pocket PC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone Series/Zune devices use.
A "kernel" is the heart and soul of an operating system. Around it and its APIs everything else is built.
Windows 7, for example, is built ontop of the Windows NT 6.1 kernel.
TFGBD said:
At least Vista/7 on the desktop lets you turn retard mode off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly do you mean by "retard mode" in Vista and 7?
P.S.: If you're referring to User Account Control, it's you who's the retard.
; )
Spike15 said:
What's with people and their nebulous definitions of things.
"CE" is the name of the kernel that Pocket PC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone Series/Zune devices use.
A "kernel" is the heart and soul of an operating system. Around it and its APIs everything else is built.
Windows 7, for example, is built ontop of the Windows NT 6.1 kernel.
What exactly do you mean by "retard mode" in Vista and 7?
P.S.: If you're referring to User Account Control, it's you who's the retard.
; )
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Heh. Nah, I wasn't talking about UAC though I guess you can count that. I was mainly thinking of stuff like the ability to show hidden files, hidden menu bars in Vista, admin settings and various other more advanced features that are hidden by default all throughout every version of desktop Windows but still easily disabled/found if power users need them. The CE platforms never got so lucky. Things just get removed for the hell of it to make room for crap in ROM or when they "confuse the user". It sure would be nice if Pocket IE still let you configure half the things it let you back in 1997... I really don't like this trend of removing and simplifying things just because it is a "Mobile" version.
TFGBD said:
Heh. Nah, I wasn't talking about UAC though I guess you can count that.
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Well UAC has nothing to do with "retard mode", it's actually a very powerful security feature, and turning it off goes against every best practice out-line in the security handbook -- which are written and designed for IT pros.
So unless IT pros are retards...
TFGBD said:
I was mainly thinking of stuff like the ability to show hidden files, hidden menu bars in Vista, admin settings and various other more advanced features that are hidden by default all throughout every version of desktop Windows but still easily disabled/found if power users need them. The CE platforms never got so lucky. Things just get removed for the hell of it to make room for crap in ROM or when they "confuse the user". Though, I still think it would be nice if Pocket IE still let you configure half of the things it let you back in 1997... I really don't like this trend of removing and simplifying things just because it is a "Mobile" version.
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Yeah I agree with that design.
I appreciate the need to make things "user-friendly", even if that means jack **** to me.
What I don't appreciate is when companies assume that "user-friendly" and "enthusiast-friendly" are mutually exclusive. You just have to hide the enthusiast/power user/pro features in such a way that they're immediately accessible to their target audiences, without confusing or getting in the way of the average user.
I don't understand why Microsoft -- a company that's become the master of this -- has decided to just totally divorce themselves from it in their up-and-coming mobile platform.
The only thing I can think of is that the WP7S team is a bunch of modern tech populist assholes who can't get their heads close enough to being out of their ass to see anything beyond "iPhone" and "cloud computing".
Just a discussion came up and made me wonder if this is even possable. This is the place to ask, so here we go.
All WP7 models seem to run at 1ghz or higher, thinking the concept that WM 6.5 runs pretty well on hardware that runs at 400-528mhz range. Would it be possable to have a emulator that runs on the platform so you can run 6.1/6.5 on a WP7 phone ? This would allow you to be able to run some older apps with still having WP7.
I would not expect intense games (maybe a card game ok) to run at full speed or anything but, things like Remote desktop and other base apps might be ok with this.
This type of thing would run on any phone (with 1ghz+ hardware) just depending on if all the hardware is supported.
Or I guess there might be a way to "shut down" 7 and open 6.5 kind of how Android runs on the TP2.
The emulator idea came up because it might be able to run on any model with minor updates vs. a boot up just for one phone.
Just some ideas...even if it is possable.
Thanks for reading and dreaming (well I am still waiting for a Verizon WP7 phone)
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
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Maybe I'm misreading the original question, but it sounds like he is asking if it were possible to have an app that would run old Windows Mobile apps, kind of like Classic on WebOS.
well at present we (3rd party) developers wouldn't be able to make something like this as all the APIs don't actually exist. someone with knowledge of the whole code base of windows phone 7 could probably do it but i doubt we'll see it happen. if there are programs you need on windows phone 7, it is definitely faster to just have it redone. it's really only the UI that needs redoing, if it was written in VB or C#, a lot of the code will still work.
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
Since ver 7, the os is no longer called windows mobile; its now called windows phone. but to answer your question, no you can't run desktop applications on windows phone (or windows mobile for that matter) and this is unlikely to change.
That said I'm sure you can find another application to achieve whatever it is that you're after on the marketplace...
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
Well for a lot of people smartphones or tablets can replace computers, most people aren't stockbrokers!
The latest version of Windows Phone is 7.5 Mango, which is currently at RTM stage - i.e. released to OEMs pending approval for new devices and upgrades to existing devices.
The Windows Phone Marketplace can only be accessed via the phone or via the Zune desktop software. The Zune software comes highly recommended from me, it's a very, very good media management software and I can't live without the wireless sync function anymore!
You can browse the marketplace through Zune without owning a Windows Phone device.
Perhaps you could let the community know what it is exactly that you need to do and someone might be able to suggest something?
EDIT: As you're new to smartphones, from a usability perspective Windows Phone 7 would be an excellent choice for you - it is simply brilliant to use, the interface is understated and elegant and the lack of pointless graphics makes it both simple and quick. Microsoft have clearly put massive effort into making Windows Phone highly usable and have surpassed pretty much all expectations, especially with the 7.5 update, which brings in a huge amount of functionality. A lot of people try and put Windows Phone down having never used it, because it's one of those things that needs you to spend 10 minutes with it to understand - but once you've spent 9 minutes with it, everything else just seems ridiculously complicated.
olivespin said:
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
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Silverlight in Windows
Hi
Silverlight apps are currently available in Windows and I think that the concept being put out there at the moment is that Windows 8 will run the same apps as Windows Mobile 8.
Nobody knows if this will become a reality or not.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
olivespin said:
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
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The best thing for you to do would be to find a mobile version of the software you are trying to run. Then get the device that runs that particular software.
The closest you'll come to running your "exact" software on a mobile device is to get a Windows based tablet or laptop. But to run your stock software on a smartphone, you will need the "mobile" version of that software, if it exists.
Also, check to see if your stock-terminal application is web-based. If it is, you may be able to access what you need with ANY smartphone through the smartphone's web browser. That means your "stock terminal" would work on Windows Phone, iPhone, Android, etc.