Just a discussion came up and made me wonder if this is even possable. This is the place to ask, so here we go.
All WP7 models seem to run at 1ghz or higher, thinking the concept that WM 6.5 runs pretty well on hardware that runs at 400-528mhz range. Would it be possable to have a emulator that runs on the platform so you can run 6.1/6.5 on a WP7 phone ? This would allow you to be able to run some older apps with still having WP7.
I would not expect intense games (maybe a card game ok) to run at full speed or anything but, things like Remote desktop and other base apps might be ok with this.
This type of thing would run on any phone (with 1ghz+ hardware) just depending on if all the hardware is supported.
Or I guess there might be a way to "shut down" 7 and open 6.5 kind of how Android runs on the TP2.
The emulator idea came up because it might be able to run on any model with minor updates vs. a boot up just for one phone.
Just some ideas...even if it is possable.
Thanks for reading and dreaming (well I am still waiting for a Verizon WP7 phone)
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
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Maybe I'm misreading the original question, but it sounds like he is asking if it were possible to have an app that would run old Windows Mobile apps, kind of like Classic on WebOS.
well at present we (3rd party) developers wouldn't be able to make something like this as all the APIs don't actually exist. someone with knowledge of the whole code base of windows phone 7 could probably do it but i doubt we'll see it happen. if there are programs you need on windows phone 7, it is definitely faster to just have it redone. it's really only the UI that needs redoing, if it was written in VB or C#, a lot of the code will still work.
Related
Looks like Silverlight is the platform for creating Windows Phone 7 apps, finally.
http://www.crn.com/software/222900433;jsessionid=ZSTDUKCIARR4FQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN
I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use
Finally!
It is indeed a very logical step.
I was trying to make a "fancy" UI on WinMo 6x and it's damn hard (that will work blazing fast). And search for a Silverlight for WinMo... and it was there... and it was showed on the TechEd 08... but never released... and I was like:
-Oh ... come on... how long does it take to port it??!
This is almost like a "duh" story but it's good to have a "source" saying it.
Silverlight will be for lightweight stuff and XNA 3 (4?) will be for Games, etc.
Imagine being able to write one app and have it work on multiple platforms with little or even no code changes. Silverlight supports multi-touch on Windows 7 too.
XNA and Silverlight. No native apps - see attach.
Can you already create SL applications for the WinMo?
DMAND said:
I hope so, SIlverlight rocks, so much better on my PC than Flash but yet it isnt widely adopted, hopefully if WP7S has Silverlight this will boost its use
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Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.
afma_afma said:
Yes silverlight rocks and i am learning it right now.
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Know any application? Link?
Developing .NET CF on WM6 is a -pain-. Even if you want to do something as simple as draw a transparent image you have to delve into P/Invoke which feels like hacking. If they get .NET development under WP7 working simply and effectively, then I think it will be a great step forward. I've used WPF extensively and it is a great platform to work on. I've no reason to think Silverlight is any different.
My only concern is how they'll restrict the distribution and installation of applications. The openness of the Windows Mobile platform has always been a big draw, and if they do an Apple and try to restrict how I publish and obtain apps then not many people will see a reason to switch from such an established and successful platform.
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
Wolfas said:
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
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if the app was created in siverlight/c# which alot of newer apps are then it can be ported to wp7.. For sometime now microsoft has been pushing their silverlight for devolpers to use so if the games you mentioned is bult in silverlight there should be no problem...
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
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emuneee said:
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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me eather!!! i am so done with wm 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and its many problems having to flashing rom after rom, restarting the device cause it has no memory left, this list goes on... wp7 is like a breth of fresh air...
Why so negative? WM always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And I wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new OS, as NT-based Windows OS platform is the most popular in PC world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
wolfas said:
why so negative? Wm always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And i wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new os, as nt-based windows os platform is the most popular in pc world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
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dont get me wrong i not trying to say 6.5 is not for some people just not for me... I think the fact that smartphones moved to a more touch enviroment it seems that the old wm is not as finger friendly and made more for the use of an stylist, to me this type of os seems to not work well on mobile devices for long peorids without a reboot maybe its the way its design or maybe it just have too many things of the desktop enviroment not sure but it gets to be a problem for me, others my not mind. As far as customizing goes well guess you cant have everything.. i personaly would prefer a more stable os than customization, and i am sure additional pc like options will come as well as more customization in the future..
I think the main reason why NT would not make a good mobile OS is simply because it was never designed or meant to run on a mobile device. Your phone is not a computer, so your phone needs an operating environment to suit it's purpose.
The "phone as a computer" approach has been tried by Microsoft, it's called Windows Mobile. While I love Windows Mobile, I have to say, having "Windows NT" on a phone just doesn't make sense.
While it would be cool to play Duke Nukem on your Windows NT mobile device, at the end of the day, you are going to put down your Windows NT phone and just sit at your computer and play Duke Nukem on that. It's just a better overall experience, and Windows NT was designed for that sit-down, productive, huge screen experience. So it wouldn't make sense to invest in a platform that no one would use at the end of the day because their desktop computer does it better.
What you have to do is create an entirely unique and different experience designed for the phone and "on-the-go" life, to complement the Windows NT desktop experience. That is after all, what your phone is for. That's what Windows Phone 7 is.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Windows Phone 7.... phone.... XD
Well, I guess you are right, but I will try once more to support my idea, if you don't mind. I still see some reasons why NT- based mobile OS would be a good idea:
1. There are plenty of popular netbooks, tablet PC's and other relative small devices with full XP, Vista or Win7 OS. All of them are made for on the go experience and still having NT OS. Not even talking about miniature UMPC's. We also often leave these devices unused when we turn on our normal PC's at home, but doesn't prevent them from having huge popularity.
2. Of cource, I do not want to suggest porting normal WinXP to mobile phones (but win98 on my touch pro didn't look half that bad ), but rather something with an UI suited for small screens, but still capable to run any application made for normal Windows.
3. I also think about the interest of developers to this kind of OS. Theorically, there would be no need to learn OS-specific programming, just the things used on any NT OS. Most of the developers who makes programs for PC would be able to make a version for this OS just by changing the resolution, leaving engine just the same.
Please, say your opinion about these things I've pointed out
1. Netbooks and tablets still operate outside of the smartphone arena of capabilities and requirements for most users. There is a reason why there isn't a successful phone running Windows XP. You can write the drivers and software for phone functionality, but at the end of the day NT was not produced with phones in mind.
2. Applications written for desktops are written for desktop processors and memory capacities. Its not a simple change of just resolutions. What if an app request memory that doesn't exist on the mobile device? Chances are the mobile device can't even address that amount of memory. So you design a mobile focused NT kernel...well now all apps can't run on both platforms..so what's the point.
3. Yes you do, because all the capabilities available on a desktop aren't available on a smartphone. Developers still have to keep that in mind when their app is in development.
I sit here looking at my Windows XP work workstation and I would kill myself if I had to use this on a phone. Windows Mobile was hard enough.
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I forget the name but there was a secret (ish) project inside Microsoft to make the NT kernel more portable and sorta combine it with the CE kernel. They were basically building off the MinWin work.
But remember, native code still wouldn't be cross platform. x86 and ARM are not binary compatible. Just look at "OSX" on Mac desktops and "OSX" as the base of "iOS". Nothing crosses back and forth.
The NT kernel doesn't scale down that well yet. The kernel land is still full of bidirectional vertical dependencies. The current lowest profile incarnation called MinWin needs like 40MB RAM to boot to a text console and offer next to no APIs and is still shock full of missing dependencies (apparently boot loader magic makes it not break on boot).
Once they're really done despaghettifying, you might see it on mobile devices. But that'll still take a while, because right now, slimming down involves tons of aliasing dependencies to nothing.
Absolutely no reason why they could not run NT on a smart phone but why would they? They already have Windows CE (aka pocket PC) and if MS had been serious about Pocket PC IMHO they would be in a much better market position now.
One of the biggest messups with Pocket PC is the inconsistancy of the user interface and MS failed to revamp the 6.5 completely for touch.... They have a lot of good things going with WM 6.5 but it was an incomplete effort and it shows.
well, I see you are right... That NT is much more complex monster than I thought, thanks for clearing that out Yesterday, I found information about device called xpPhone, I wonder what would you say about it ? http://www.xpphone.com/en/product/specification.html
Hi !
As far as I know, beneath Windows Phone 7 there is basically still Windows CE running. So I'm wondering, is/may/will it be possible to run Windows Mobile 6 Apps on Windows Phone 7? Or do we already know that this can't happen because the underlying architecture is too different? Is anyone working on this?
For example, has anyone tried to copy a Windows Mobile 6 Filemanager to WP7 and run it somehow?
Best regards
intripoon
I'm going to go with no here.... not only from all of the months and months and months of people saying no but from the simple fact that WP7 is based on silverlight which wm 6.1 and 6.5 aren't.... at all....
This is why aps aren't backwards OR forwards compatible which people put up a pretty big stink about when WP7 was announced but seems to have died down now that we're able to see what can actually be done with silverlight
So... no.. not compatible
Also, just think about the work to emulate the wm6 crappiness. Thousand of empty bucles, glitchy graphic rendering, millions of delays, agggg..
No, seriously. Windows Mobile was powerful, but it's just too old. It should be possible to emulate the applications (in theory everything is possible), but I think is just too much effort, and there is no such big reason to put resources on something like that.
Could wp7 apps be unlocked to run on windows. They all run in silverlight right. Should it not be like a java app and run anywhere?
Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.
kapanak said:
Interesting question. I think the developer would have little problem trying to recompile an app for Windows use (given Silverlight is already installed on the target PC), but XAPs are specifically compiled and signed for use on WP7 devices, and thus we can, at best, run them on a PC by deploying an extracted XAP on the Emulator.
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If GAC constains required assemblies then it's possible. But it's useless (more than me )...
From what I seem to remember, when you compile for WP7 it compiles into Common Language Runtime. Its much like Java's bytecode but slightly different.
Assuming it does compile to CLR, apps should be able to run, so long as the needed frameworks exist.
windows 8 will do that
I suspect that Windows 8 will do just that. As Microsoft is planning to bring windows 8 to tablets with the Metro UI, i think wp7 apps will be really easy to run on windows 8, so they match the touch UI of the platform...
If you look at Game Chest: Logic Games, it contains a multiplayer game of Chess. If you challenge someone else to a game and they're not using a WP7 device, the notifications of game moves come through to them on xbox.com. When they click the notification, it actually fires up a version of Chess that is IDENTICAL to the one on my phone, in the browser. So it looks to me like they have done exactly what the OP is asking about, i.e. they have recompiled the game to run in silverlight under IE8.
It works brilliantly.
Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?
DeBoX said:
Hi
Been wondering if there was anyway to emulate or run a virtual win environment on our little tab?
Was thinking along the lines of Xp or Win 7...
Anyone?
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Not possible.
Not running Windows per se, but the Microsoft RDP client on Android linked to a Windows PC works very well.
I don't think we'll ever see the Windows kernel running on the Exynos chipset TBH, at the least it would require virtualization or emulation that would require a lot of coding and in any case Windows would place a much larger overhead on the processors than Android or Linux.
Windows RT, the Microsoft "equivalent" of Android (i.e. designed to run on a low-powered chipset), has not been very well received due to its much reduced command set. It looks like Windows desktop, but it cannot run full-blown Windows desktop applications.
FWIW
Ok, figured I'd ask. I know there were a decent number of virtualisation projects a while back, but usually focused around win98 etc
Though I'd love a stripped xp version on this tab
Could always use Citrix Receiver
could you elaborate a bit?
DeBoX said:
could you elaborate a bit?
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Heres a link all the info is there most probably best to use gotomypc By the same devs though mate.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.citrix.Receiver
Well contrary to the "impossible" brigade... a VM with CPU emulation allows all kinds of impossible feats.
PearPC being an example or VirtualPC on old PPC Macs, etc etc. ! There are of course limitations. But the point is x86 & some basic HW emulation will allow you to run Windows as long as what's being emulated is of good enough spec for the version of Windows you want.
The bottleneck is almost always the speed the CPU emulation runs at, and that depends on both host and target architecture and there are different approaches with different advantages/drawbacks.
I've used BOCHS on my 10.1 (original) to run win98 (slooowly) - and others have got XP running (google is your friend) I chose 98 as it's basically DOS +GUI so I figured it might work better. I've not invested a lot of effort as the emulation and integration of UI elements isn't brilliant (yet).
There's a link here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1389700
There are other x86 emulators like DOSBOX/QEMU running on ARM but as with all emulation it's never going to be as quick as a real CPU! That said some DOS games play well I believe.
I've not tried it on my 10.1 (2014) so can't comment on how it good it is there. Can't see how it would be worse!
YMMV.