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I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
Shasarak said:
I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
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i think htc will depend on sales only on android devices as it is still customizable (which htc is special at and that differes it from other devices ) but when going to wp7 no thing will specialize htc phones so no big sales like before
the only thing they can do is use the most highest specs in the phone to stand out but samsung seems to pull out high spec'ed phones before most of companies.
i was thinking how screwed spb is as they have a lot of software that they can use on wm (shell, keyboard etc) and i know they are making the shell on android but why would someone with android and to spend $30 on a widget based shell when they already have one.
IIRC, SPB was listed as one of the 'key partners' for WP7S, so they must have something cooking!
HTC is a HARDWARE company. When did TouchFlo first come out? With the release of the Touch Diamond right? Not all that long ago (late 2007). I always saw TouchFlo as a "necessary evil" and that HTC was just polishing a turd. They got really good at it and the more recent Sense products are pretty darn good but it's still an adulteration of their core business. They'll continue to exist as a HARDWARE company and they will still do some value-add software development likely through a Sense application that integrates weather, twitter, Footprints, etc.
It'll be interesting to see what SPB comes out with for WP7. Maybe they can still make some kinda shell it just can't be set up to over take the start menu and has to be launched each time you start the device. Of course they would probably need some priveledged API's to do anything worth doing.
Also, I don't just love HTC because of Manilla. I've had HTC devices before manilla ever came out. I just love the design of there hardware. That's what really drives me. Any device can have UI's put on it but you can't just change the design by installing a cab.
Great question here. I agree that despite excellent form factors, nice materials and very decent build quality, HTC failed in many areas of making great devices, and the problem was primarily with software. Even Manila, which I enjoy greatly, is an example of how not to build interfaces - 3000 lua files, no customization, no APIs to hook other services or programs, it is all mediocre stuff on the inside. Drivers have caused many frustrations over the years, they constantly failed to document any APIs they used, and always refused to take into account complaints and requests, repeating their "this is not an entertainment/gaming/whatever device" mantras.
With a software company taking charge of software, I think HTC devices will get much better. So I'm rather optimistic with regard to my possible future use of HTC products.
However, they do lose ability to differentiate themselves from other OEMs with WP7, and their ambitions to become a large cell phone manufacturer in the same league with Nokia & Co. now look a bit too optimistic. So yeah, they may go through some difficult times in search of self-identification.
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
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Other than the fact that Microsoft has announced that HTC is one of its major partners on the WP7S project, you mean?
First of all, microsoft dont care about their costumers, we can see that cos theiy did sayd silly excuses about how their new OS wont implement cos some lack of buttons, after that cos lack of some small sume of memory ( ROM ), and they expect from us, to trow into the garbage machines what we did pay 600 eu and to get new i guess with win7 and waste another 600 eu. That is the way how they are working. MONEY , and screw the rest
I'm surprised no one thinks MS won't give a damn if all the WM OEM's give them the finger, they will just contract the manufacture of the hardware out to one of the said OEM's to produce "microsofts" design and specs.......microsoft will make more money, the OEM's like HTC...less, this is imo what the whole point of what they're doing is.....they want total control and a cut of every pie, OS, software, downloadable content, and hardware.....there's not enough money in only producing OS software, and I suspect a point of annoyance at money others make off their platform.
They will FLOURISH :
-geeks like us ( small proportion of marketplace ) will not buy their stuff
-normal people ( huge proportion of marketplace ) will buy their "user-friendly" WP7 stuff
HUGE PROFIT !
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
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just a thought and suspicion HTC will not continue developing devices with wm6.5 for long.
The last official rom updates for Diamond 2 and touch pro2 have sence 2.5. Why? because HTC sees no reason to continue development of sense? so lets just give it all for everyone. Now software vice there is no real differance between a Diamond 2 and HD2 only a compass, footprints and business card reader.
so software vice its like iPhone 3G and 3GS
so it looks like we are on the beta max phone right now
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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Sometimes, innocent babies get AIDS from their drug addicted parents. We can't seem to comprehend the weird actions of the parents in producing An Intelligence Deficiency System (AIDS) --- a mobile phone OS that lacks so many basic essential features; we might speculate the parents were in psychedelic high, sharing dirty needles, and spread AIDS to each other. The babies (innocent young developers) will mostly likely get AIDS. Some of them who have just learn how to talk have gone so far as to say AIDS is good for the world. The world with AIDS will make a better ecosystem -- it will be skinnier for sure. Many innocent victims (consumers) will likely be infected by the AIDS. It is a potential outbreak, but the kind doctors (xda-developers) can do nothing to help, they are being denied the essential tools to perform their duties. So the whole healing process will have to be left to shamans or witches with divine powers (certain developers with access to native herbal medicines called c++); and we all have to live in the dark age ... wait a minute, I am seeing all these from a distant droid land; phew! I am saved by an open source robot , as the welfare of our droid land seems to be progressing toward the positive territory, I really feel sorry for those who are still in the doom land; with supreme leaders getting more and more paranoids. I hope some one sane enough will stop the supreme leaders if they ever command all their followers to commit mass suicide; such as by destroying the only platform they are all still standing on... an old but useful platform we all love; where everything is colorful and free, the one where the doctors are provided tools to cure any weakness or illness.
The end result:
Only the very strong will survive!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
Shasarak said:
I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
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I am talking about HTC, sleeping with MS and then Google.
Now it got aids in form of Apple lawsuit and probably neglect from MS for the new WP7.
You're all acting as if HTC didn't know this was coming. Just because Microsoft kept every single detail about WP7 secret from the public doesn't mean they kept it secret from their hardware partners. HTC has known what was coming for months, if not years.
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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Click to collapse
Not if you use a condom.
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
Exactly what I was thinking about... and I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
I'm sure their relationship is great and HTC has some wonderful WP7S phones in the works. I'm sure HTC knew details about WP7 phones long before we did. And they start designing them long before we are aware of them.
HTC and MS will be just fine.
No
1. They're preventing everybody. TouchWiz, Panels, all that. Consistency. HTC had just been the most drastic coverup that everybody latched onto and used to mock Microsoft.
2. HD2 is a different animal. HD2 will be an old old phone at the end of the year. Why would anybody expect official support? More to the point, do you really believe that HTC would prefer to send you free OS upgrades rather than have you buy a new HD3?
3. Huh?
4. Of course they do. Diversified strategy makes sense and they have the scale for it. Microsoft has multiple hardware makers and HTC has multiple software makers
5. Those guys were aching to get their machines in the limelight for once.. it's always about HTC. Last year they showed off 6.5 on a Diamond2 and TouchPro2. XDA readers are so attached to HTC the simple existence of 3 non-HTC phones bothers them
6. Context, context. It's not like they said "Yeah Apple, kick HTC's ass!"
I get the feeling HTC is ready to sell Windows phones like hotcakes again
THE GRIZZ said:
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ZaxXx said:
I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
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Click to collapse
Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
What's with this whole imaginary HTC vs MS battle? Has there been some official "we are fighting" press release from either of them?
HTC is a hardware manufacturer which makes hardware for various platforms. MS is a software manufacturer that makes software for various platforms (they even have an iPhone app or two). These companies are fully aware what's happening years before the public is.
HTC makes money selling you NEW hardware (HD3)...not software updates to old hardware (HD2 this December). I'm sure HTC is hard at work on 2nd generation WP7 devices and is preparing to release is 1st generation of WP7 devices. There's nothing to fuss about, it's business as usual.
The money saved in the "free" Android OS is probably spent on development. This development cost is built into MS'es fee, so it's all a balance. The "free" thing is a misnomer. Somewhere in the development process Android has a cost.
HTC is fully free to put Sense in Android devices, let's see how Android Sense stacks up against WP7 next year The 3rd party UI shell game was a symptom of failure on MS'es part. They're now correcting this shortcoming of WM with Metro.
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
THE GRIZZ said:
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
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WinMo failed marketwise...face it. It's so-called advantages were also it's flaws.
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
Yeah, and also TMo HD2 has this Blockbuster app, right? That's a reason to have more storage already.
vangrieg said:
Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
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Click to collapse
Very good points Sir. Good thing Ballmer is no Jobs. We'll see how hard HTC comes with WP7
WhyBe said:
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
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I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
Shasarak said:
I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
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Click to collapse
this, or the specifications for WP7 drastically changed during the last couple months. but what do WE know????? nothing!
I still think HD2 is a GREAT device for WM 6.5
It will suck with WP7 so why do you guys even think about it?
I think that HTC will switch definitely to Android/Maemo and BrewOS platforms after this.
Microsoft hasn't been loyal with HTC and neither with their customers: this non-upgradeability thing sucks and remember that if Microsoft is still selling Windows Mobile is only because of HTC that has developed an entirely new UI (Sense, HTCMessaging, HTCSettings, Connection Manager, CommManager etc.) that has given new life to Windows Mobile, making other OEMs such as LG, Toshiba etc. to develop their own UIs for selling Windows Mobile and literally saving the Microsoft's handheld OSes market.
And it's clear that the HTC HD2 has been assembled on the mainline of Windows Mobile 7, because WM6.5(.5) lacks of native MultiTouch features and other hardware that is in our HD2 and that only WM7 and Android can use.
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
Microsoft has been a really good company when Bill Gates was managing all.
Steve Ballmer has done a good job in the PC OSes market (remember that Windows7 was planned by Gates, not by Ballmer and yes, of course, it even depends on the Windows Team, but think on it), but now, I have to say, Ballmer is literally "shutting down" the Microsoft supremacy on all.
Good luck with your future Linux devices!
kholk said:
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
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Symbian?
I like where it's heading... I'm getting an Android now, but I hope Symbian will get the developer support it deserves, cause the OS itself is great: youtube.com/watch?v=qapiWqJcAAE
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
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Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
Ok I hesitated before creating this topic because everytime you mention Android here you end up with arguments and closed threads. Let's try to all behave like adults that can have a proper conversation.
So, Google buys Motorola Mobility... Do you think other OEMs will come running to Microsoft anytime soon? And should they be welcome with open arms? Or do you think Microsoft should also make its hardware and buy Nokia/RIM? I'm not sure which is the best strategy but it's likely this will hugely impact Windows Phone.
Dont think anything will change or this will have any big impact on WP7. htc, samsung, etc always had android as their preferred platform and make boatloads of cash from it, this will likely just make them compete harder and possibly neglect WP7 even more. Which basically is the situation today.
I think MS should buy Nokia after WP7 is well established and selling well, then they can build on that and not be beholden to the android OEM's.
1. Windows Phone 7 will not be running on Motorola/Google hardware
2. More focus on internal hardware, ie; updates will be released for internal hardware ahead of what is release to other suppliers
3. Multi-vendor support will decline ane more WP7 support
4. Increase in WP7 support at the expense of Android
Apple does its manufacturing in-house.
Google owns Motorola.
Microsoft's major partner is Nokia.
It's all the same thing, just with a different spin on it. Nothing will change. If anything, it might make OEM's prefer Windows Phone over Android... probably not, but maybe. It's all speculation anyway.
efjay said:
Dont think anything will change or this will have any big impact on WP7. htc, samsung, etc always had android as their preferred platform and make boatloads of cash from it, this will likely just make them compete harder and possibly neglect WP7 even more. Which basically is the situation today.
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I don't know, eventually Motorola phones will get exclusive features and will probably be the only Android phones that get day one updates like the Nexus One/S. If Motorola sales grow too much there's a case to be made for Samsung, HTC, etc. to go and look elsewhere.
one big patant war
so now we have google&motorola vs MS&nokia vs apple&(let them buy samsung)
I was about to make the same question, I think that Google buying Motorola Mobile maybe will help WP7, why? Because now the other OEMs will have to compete against Google as a Hardware maker... Before, they were where partners, now they're competing companies and obviously Google will have preference for Motorola over the other companies when delivering updates, etc... That's my thinking...
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Means we are screwed. Not!
Motorola aint Nokia. But yes, expect some real nasty Android devices, as Google is (dont deny) a creative company. HTC and Samsung will spend more time trying to follow Motorola, as Motorola will always update their phones fast as Google update Android.
It will be nice, I admit. One of the fatal flaw of Android just ended together with the treat of the patent war (which puts Google again on feet).
Android will run better on Motorola devices, smoothier, since they are going to work with the hardware and software.
No WP7 on Motorola since Google hate it so bad (look at our Youtube and Google search page).
Maybe less chances to WP7, because 50% of the market is already using Android. Google is more Apple alike now, and this should count.
But probably HTC, Samsung and LG is going to try some more of WP7 Mango juice. Or I hope so. Sony Ericksson would be nice too..
With a good deal I can see Samsung and LG making more WP7 devices, but SE??? I don't know... :-S
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I wouldnt bet on that.. But hope is the to die, right? I like SE's phone. More than LG and Samsung for sure.
Probably means Apple goes after Motorola and Google now and gives Microsoft and Samsung a break. Or they hire even more lawyers to go after all the above.
Oh...what does it mean to us, the consumers? Probably higher prices to pay for all those f**king lawyers.
markgamber said:
Probably means Apple goes after Motorola and Google now and gives Microsoft and Samsung a break. Or they hire even more lawyers to go after all the above.
Oh...what does it mean to us, the consumers? Probably higher prices to pay for all those f**king lawyers.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it makes sense too.
everything to do with patents and nothing to do with hardware.
oh, and a few people just DOUBLED their money on moto-mobile, ill bet. look at the price jump ! wow !
this only effects microsofts ability to sue google, and no royalties. smart move google.
whatever happens, the patent system is still stupid and broken
Sure it's mainly about patents but Google could have just bought/licensed the patents for a lot less, I don't see Motorola turning them down. I think if they went for the whole of Motorola Mobility it's to also make a strong line of hardware. You don't pay $12.5 Billion to not make the best handsets you can when you get an OEM in the package.
Motorola, TBH I was unware they made an android phone!
the acquisition of MM is just about as quiet as MS's acquisition of Danger in 2008. Anyone remember that...not a lot of people =/
Hello the result is Android more protected, and widows phone falling its gud move by google
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Well, I will tell you the future I foresee.
Apple will still be around selling iPhones.
Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. will still be selling Android handsets, but the majority of the handsets they sell will be Windows Phones.
Motorola Mobility (eh. Google Mobility) will be making record breaking profit and will be responsible for 70%+ of all Android phones produce.
Windows Phone will make up the majority of the smartphone market share.
Microsoft will license (but not buy) many technologies from RIM including BlackBerry Messenger.
day2die said:
Well, I will tell you the future I foresee.
1) Apple will still be around selling iPhones.
2) Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. will still be selling Android handsets, but the majority of the handsets they sell will be Windows Phones.
3) Motorola Mobility (eh. Google Mobility) will be making record breaking profit and will be responsible for 70%+ of all Android phones produce.
4) Windows Phone will make up the majority of the smartphone market share.
5) Microsoft will license (but not buy) many technologies from RIM including BlackBerry Messenger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 yep, nice ones even if i don't like their lockdown
2 er - who what why where when - is this going to start happening ?
3 those droiiiiiiiiid commercials were already old. hopefully they branch out in marketing. like htc.
4 repeat of 2
5 why on earth would M$ ever care/want anything about bbm ?
No one knows where this one will head. It all depends on what Google's intentions are for the hardware side of the business. It's doubtful that Google seriously wants to be in the hardware business.
The only firm conclusions I think we can reach are...
(1) It was all about the patents.
(2) Google is more serious about mobile than many people thought previously. They just spent a good chunk of their cash hoard on a bunch of patents that may or may not be sufficient to protect Android and/or they spent a bunch of money on an overpriced phone maker. Either way, they probably more than doubled their total investment in Android.
Personally, I think G will be selling pieces off to interested parties, but I could be wrong.
MS is in an interesting position now. Google just handed them a great talking point for their sales pitch to Samsung/HTC/SE but the BFF relationship with Nokia takes the wind out of that sail. Hard to tell what their next move should be.
Interesting times ahead. Time to go make some more popcorn.
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Click to collapse
Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
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Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
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Click to collapse
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
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Click to collapse
I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Click to collapse
Count me in!
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.
jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
Click to expand...
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This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Lool.
Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!
I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..
mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
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Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.
Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.
Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
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