ive noticed that the wp7 games are not as smooth or as fluid as the wonderful WP7 metro interface. Their OK to be honest but are wp7 device not able to run games as smoothly as the interface runs. ( i know the interface is basic) but wondered if the wp7 handsets had rubbish gpu`s
the general aspects of the game should be just as smooth. loading of the app and between stages may be a little slower on HTC devices as they use microSD instead of NAND (which i believe iPhone uses as well).
Pretty much it is nand
Also the January update is supposed to bring faster application loading and smoother scrolling. I suppose that works well though no?
Sent from my Venue Pro using Board Express
I've found XNA based games run as fast as the games on iPhones. Silverlight is a bit hit and miss. Of course it all depends on the programming as well.
so is it down to poor programming or just that the gpu isnt capable?
Games written on silverlight won't run as fast as ones written on XNA.
I haven't encountered slow, or badly performing games.
davidebanks said:
so is it down to poor programming or just that the gpu isnt capable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no its the memory storage type the OEM used. MircoSD vs NAND. NAND is much faster but more expensive so HTC cut down costs and used MicroSD over NAND. Bad choice but i still like my HD7.
im not ssaying the games are slow, its just that they are not running as smooth as iphone games and i wonder why this is?for example, the smoothest game ive seen on wp7 is probably glow air hockey, try it. you will notice that it runs as smooth as the wp7 interface itself, which suggest that this particular game is running close to 60 frames per second. however as you can see with this game, its not very detailed at all so no surprise that it runs smoothly. when you try a detailed 3d game say need for speed, assassins creed, max and magic marker etc. then the frame rate is about 25 frames per second. so the game does not run as smooth as iphone games. i dont think its the nand memory causing this as although the games load quicker on nand, the gameplay as still at the same speed and framerate..... so is it the wp7 gpu or poor programming?
davidebanks said:
im not ssaying the games are slow, its just that they are not running as smooth as iphone games and i wonder why this is?for example, the smoothest game ive seen on wp7 is probably glow air hockey, try it. you will notice that it runs as smooth as the wp7 interface itself, which suggest that this particular game is running close to 60 frames per second. however as you can see with this game, its not very detailed at all so no surprise that it runs smoothly. when you try a detailed 3d game say need for speed, assassins creed, max and magic marker etc. then the frame rate is about 25 frames per second. so the game does not run as smooth as iphone games. i dont think its the nand memory causing this as although the games load quicker on nand, the gameplay as still at the same speed and framerate..... so is it the wp7 gpu or poor programming?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you
1. read
or
2. read?
It's been said at least 3x in this thread why the games seem so slow. it's not the programming, its the microsd
yeah, i read both 1 and 2 and i dont believe that the NAND memory is causing the difference. i know nand memory makes the games load quicker see it demoed with need for speed using nand and microsd etc. but the actual gameplay it self is still running at about 25 frames per second. I own the Omnia 7 which of course has NAND memory and like i say, most 3d games are running at about 25 fps. im beginning to think the WP7 is not capable of playing good 3d games at around 60 fps like the iphone?
The GPU in the iPhone4 is better than the GPU in any existing WP7 phone. Also, iOS games are written in native code where WP7 games are written in managed code.
Those two differences are fairly large.
^ exactly , sandbox.
It has nothing to do with managed code. Some of it has to do with poor optimizing and some of it has to do with this being a young platform.
Both the platform and developers need some time to get things optimized and sorted out. As mentioned already the very first WP7 update will have performance improvements.
If it's a port, then it's most likely shoddy coding.
Games written from the ground up using XNA shouldn't be experiencing issues.
Ren13B said:
It has nothing to do with managed code. Some of it has to do with poor optimizing and some of it has to do with this being a young platform.
Both the platform and developers need some time to get things optimized and sorted out. As mentioned already the very first WP7 update will have performance improvements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you telling me that C#/XNA can keep up with native C++? I don't care how much optimization a developer can do, there is an inherent handicap.
PG2G said:
So are you telling me that C#/XNA can keep up with native C++? I don't care how much optimization a developer can do, there is an inherent handicap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In many cases, you're wrong.
You take care of this during the design process. You can't code both native and managed the same way.
In the case of XNA, although you program in managed code, speed intensive operations that would be best run with native code still do use native code. The Xbox XDK is native code. DirectX is native code. XNA Game Studio is in native code. You just use C# to tell it what do to.
In the hands of a big company with huge resources, could they eek out more performance out of native code than managed code? Sure. But for most developers, they won't be pushing the limits of the hardware to that cutting edge. I'm not sure if there are any developers do that for mobile games.
i think PG2G explanation sounds the most reasonable. i suspect the iphone 4 does have a better gpu. im pretty sure we will see the fluidity difference between them when angry birds comes out on wp7. where on the iphone 4 its probably running around 60 fps but we will probably get maybe 30 if were lucky
in terms of the debate between .NET and native code and which runs faster, there are so many ways to measure it that it can sometimes be a bit silly. but from what i understand of it, both can be just as fast, depending on how the methods are written.
don't under-estimate .NET just because it's managed code, microsoft have spent over a decade optimising it and it has quite a lot of power built into it.
but yea, as said, it's a combination of factors from physical memory (microSD vs NAND), to programming patterns (how it's written and whether it's actually been optimised or just slapped together to work), to CPU/GPU (as said before, the first gen snapdragon was known not to be as good in GPU processing as other units).
Hopefully this answers your questions.
The performance of silverlight apps versus native OS apps is enough to make me question whether the managed code can even come close to native apps on this platform.
Lot of wacky responses here. I develop for WP7 and iOS. My WP7 phone is my personal phone. Hopefully those facts should show I'm not injecting bias.
It's a combination of things:
- the iOS device family's PowerVR GPUs are better than the Adreno 200 in all the current WP7 phones. Even the older iPhones and iPod Touches stack up very well, though they're helped by only having to render at roughly half the res as WP7/Nexus One/Droid Incredible/anything else using the same Adreno 200 GPU.
- WP7 games written in XNA are capped at 30fps. While not all mobile games are going to be able to reach 60fps, many can, especially on the iPhone 4, and there's a big difference in smoothness there.
- Developers who are not used to XNA / C# often fall foul of the garbage collector. This can really impact your performance, and I think you'll see some gradual improvements in the overall quality of WP7 XNA games as developers learn to avoid the pitfalls.
- Not as game-oriented, but some of the Silverlight controls don't feel as responsive as an equivalent iOS control, like scrolling views. They render fast enough, but there can be a slight lag in touch response.
The relatively weak GPU is the biggest factor here, by a mile. There's a bit of sample code on the MS site for rendering smokey particles, and even though the number of particles is low and you'd expect a rock-solid framerate, the performance on the phone is quite pathetic.
Re: the native vs managed discussion - the point is that under ideal conditions (i.e. we get better WP7 hardware) the speed gains from native code wouldn't really matter as long as the managed code is written properly, not for the majority of games.
Related
Watch this amazing video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQv_3fwopo8
The guy plays from PC to WP7S then continues to Xbox360. Codes on different platform is almost the same!
Wow, that's cool. Not much of a game of course, and I don't know if real game developers use Visual Studio, but that's the kind of synergy that's really a theoretical killer feature for the WP7 as a platform.
vangrieg said:
Wow, that's cool. Not much of a game of course, and I don't know if real game developers use Visual Studio, but that's the kind of synergy that's really a theoretical killer feature for the WP7 as a platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real devs of all types (besides *nix I suppose) use Visual Studio. There's plenty of "real" games already using XNA as well as community games. It's rapid (ie cheap) and yet still rather powerful. Yea, you lose a bit in performance since it's managed but it's not too far off.
The guy mentioned that this is the entertainment scenario and he also said that he has shown the productivity scenario. Could this mean that you can seamlessly work from your PC to your Phone and vice versa?
Just curious, How fast the Zune HD Tegra processor compared to 1 GHz Snapdragon chip (for example: HD2) ?
Anyone know any good benchmark result?
I don't have any hard numbers and I doubt they exist. Mobile platforms vary so much it would be hard to get a fair comparison.
But judging from what I've read, th Tegra would be pretty close when it comes to 3d rendering and video however the Snapdragon would eat it's lunch when it comes to general purpose stuff. It's running the newer ARM architecture and is clocked much higher. The Tegra seems at home in media stuff (Zune HD, portable game consoles, etc) but Snapdragon wins on phones which make more use of the general purpose ARM CPU core instead of the graphics hardware.
Thanks Rusty,
I read more now and I think the main reason would be that Snapdragon has cellular communication and GPS built-in, proven and being used already. While Tegra does not have that, but more powerful on media.
RustyGrom said:
I don't have any hard numbers and I doubt they exist. Mobile platforms vary so much it would be hard to get a fair comparison.
But judging from what I've read, th Tegra would be pretty close when it comes to 3d rendering and video however the Snapdragon would eat it's lunch when it comes to general purpose stuff. It's running the newer ARM architecture and is clocked much higher. The Tegra seems at home in media stuff (Zune HD, portable game consoles, etc) but Snapdragon wins on phones which make more use of the general purpose ARM CPU core instead of the graphics hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I though that i would be getting some nice smooth games on the wp7 platform but so far they seem to be below par. they seem to handle 2d games reasonably well, but when it comes to 3d they seem to struggle...so far only rocket riot seems to be reasonably smooth....hope its just because wp7 is new and developers are just getting used to it????
Which 3D games run slowly?
They should be pretty smooth on any WP7 device.
Which phone and which games?
yeah I have heard about slow load times on some phones (SD card memory instead of NAND) but never heard of the game actually running slow.
I am disappointed too. I saw a video of Need 4 speed undercover for WP7. Graphics are very poor.
I thought WP7 would be at least equal or better than iPhone for games. But I have some doubts at this stage...
I've been fairly impressed by graphics in for example "The Harvest". Gameplay was smooth, graphics crisp and energetic. Definately much better than anything I've seen on an iPhone.
I'd chalk this up to growing pains. New Platform, Gen 1 releases that were made with beta software and hardware. Even though it's just XNA give developers to learn up from down and you'll start to see better performing and looking titles as they adjust to the platform and really get a hang of its limits and how to optimize their code for the platform.
Even though it's just 1 supported chipset for now, phones could have different snapdragon processors, a better SD card, etc.
I saw a video of 2 wp7 phones and the load time was significantly faster on another. The slower phone was on low batteries though, I haven't seen this test done with the same phones fully charged though. As an aside, does anyone know if wp7 has cpu throttling based on battery life?
Also if you are compairing EA games to others, well its EA. They make poor ports on almost all platforms besides the initial designed device or platform. In time it may inprove but for now I would not be supprised if the EA titles are still better on the iPhone than WP7 currently. Not saying other games don't have the same issue, but if I am right in guessing that its mostly EA games you are disapointed in, the well I am not supprised.
As a summary - poor game indicates poor coding/design.
Even in older HTC, e.g. HD, people were producing amazing quality games - e.g. xtrack.
i.e. most of these windows phone devices are capable of running fluid games - but the developers just arent interested ... or rather, werent.
Things have changed 100% with windows phone 7.
ive downloaded rocket riot which is quite smooth when playing. so no complaints there. maybe this is to do with the block style graphics? but other ive downloaded and are not smooth are Gylder earthworm jim, the harvest. twin blades. max and the magic marker. games should run at a minimum of 30fps. the iphone games look like the run at 60 fps. someone mentioned a point about Xtract, which i have running on the old 528mhz touch diamond 2 with MicroSD memory, not NAND and its still smoother that any wp7 game i have seen so far...... what does that mean??? that my 1ghz NAND memory omnia cant compete with my old touch diamond 2??? somethings not right..........
i agree, i had need for speed on my old 528mhz MicroSD mem touch diamond 2, and the wp7 version really dosnt look any smoother.
its known to have a poor gpu so it really worries me that it was used to launch a platform which its main selling point will be gaming and xbox live integration. So people will expect to be blown away with games. Now, as far as the UI, its flawless when the OS is concerned but thats not a big deal since the graphical elements are not too taxing, but i saw the negative effects when playing need for speed undercover... it was really a step down when it came to smoothness and graphics IMO even when i remember it performing better in an 500mhz sprint palm pre...
am i missing something?? was it the effect of a dirty port from a ARM cpu made game?? or is this something to be mildly dissapointed about??
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Combination of all that. Dirty port, new platform, and restrictions.
Sidenote PSP phone is on a newer version, but nothing is confirmed.
There are no games that push that CPU so no one is worried. By the time such games come the people who care will be getting ready to buy a new phone anyways. Those people buy anything just cause the specs are better.
Look at how android fans rave about the hummingbird CPU on a platform with relatively poor games and no gourmet accellerated ui, etc......
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
IMO its just going to be like the iPhone. The iPhone 2nd gen can still run most games that the iP4 can... but just with longer load times and lower frame rates.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. ACreed is already on WP7 from the makers of Nova.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
mike21pr said:
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
I do not know if you remember this but before Qualcomm bought out the ATI mobile solutions division HTC had real trouble with the gfx card drivers due to laziness and licensing. This issue was present up until only the last few 6.5 devices that were made. Instantly this CPU/GPU was regarded as better but still not there yet (HD2). Qualcomms own presentations showed the chip running at much more potential.
Simply put. MS realised that HTC cant write drivers to save their lives,(homebrew projects were started by the community to save devices such as the X1 etc) so they wrote their own.
This might not be the best example but if you check videos of side by side comparisons (Nexus S vs Focus/Omnia 7) you will see that WP7 manages to be more fluid displaying websites then a Hummingbird Android combo.
I believe the chip hasn't been used to its full potential yet. If it will be fully utilized in a years time for lets say games... is debatable.
VonCrisp said:
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to that, I think a lot of performance depends on the software running on top of it. For example, everyone gets caught up in the powerhouse specs of Android--but maybe because Android is a custom version of Linux the software is 'heavier' and it requires a lot of power from the CPU. Meanwhile, WP7 software seems to be running much faster than Android on a slower CPU and that is most likely because Microsoft has done a fantastic job of keeping the OS optimized for the hardware and maybe even hardware accelerated (to use the CPU's full potential).
It's like viewing a picture with Photoshop versus viewing a picture with a default Photo Viewer. On a fast computer, the speed difference between opening either one is probably not a big deal. But on a slower computer, Photoshop will take longer to open than the Photo Viewer. Both programs are identical on both computers, but the Photo Viewer has less to load and was designed to open faster than Photoshop.
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
WP7 features the SnapDragon SoC AND an Adreno 200 GPU. The GPU is the one handling the animations and such while the CPU focuses on the rest. Now I'm not saying it's a speed monster, but it's more than enough.
@Above: Alot of Android phones are still plagued by choppiness, not by Android itself, but by the Skins OEMs put on it. Motorola is the notorious one. But consumers do not know and will blame android for it instead.
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who can't get around their phone fast? Android and RIM. Let's be realistic, in terms of GPU, both Oses are poor. I mean REALLY poor.
The load test is a bit difficult for a lot of reasons. Most of the wp7 devices uses microsd card and that has been KNOWN to attribute to slow loading, not as much as the cpu/gpu. Also is there an objective test that loads the same 3 games on the three smartphone platforms? It's no question apple would be first using flash based storage, it is meant to poll data at a faster rate than microsd card.
secondly, microsoft does have support for real time gaming and a few more details due to using CE7 core
Check more about that
http://wmpoweruser.com/wm7-is-ce7/
recently however, the news story has been verified that CE7 is underlying wp7 not CE6 with bits of CE7
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we saw real time gaming as early as next year on wp7 platform
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think snapdragon is terrible either. It's been underutilized but not terrible by any means. I also agree that a lot of the reasons there is horrid runtimes is because it is a fast port and the port isn't Optimized for wp7. Microsoft has done an unbelievable job for the porting process, but developers just stop there. There is no further optimization sadly and that is a shame
While I think a better processor would be ideal, I don't think its gonna be a problem for WP7. You see the thing about Android is that it REQUIRES all these specs that the fanboys rave over to run smoother. WP7 is already there. Android has a bigger footprint than WP7 and requires more power. This is the problem with android and gaming. I have Angry Birds on my phone, Moto Cliq, and it loads slowly and plays poorly. I deleted because I can't play a game a 2fps.
^ see what I mean you blame the OS because of your phone. That's not Androids fault, put those exact same Motorola Cliq specs in a WP7 device and you will have the same result.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Who said anything about microSD chips?
CE7 supports multiplayer gaming, WP7 itself doesn't. Right now at this very moment it is impossible to play a realtime multiplayer game on WP7. Its a pipe dream right now.
You can say potentially the January update will correct this, and I can say potentially WP7 will launch the next NASA mission.
Another thing why do you guys have to mention the fault of another OS but brush off the faults of WP7 as if its acceptable?
vetvito said:
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
says the resident wp7 hater...
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
nrfitchett4 said:
says the resident wp7 hater...
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I switched to WP7. I have a vibrant and while I LOVED the screen, I felt it was pointless because there was not enough great games out on android. N.O.V.A. dragon age, and asphalt were awesome and alot of fun but those had to be bought directly from the gameloft app store. Why is that? Becasue the android market / platform has terrible security. Developers don't want to spend a long time creating an awesome game and then have it pirated a couple hours later.
Overall I already have much better games on my WP7 device. All my friends with galaxy S series phones can't believe the games I have on it in terms of quality and quantity.
I don't get the big buzz about angry birds also, its simple and fun for a little bit, but don't you think its quite repetitive? I knew I never once pulled out my vibrant thinking "lets play angry birds" after I beat it the first time.
Android does have the best hardware for games (nothing even comes close) however, the apps just aren't there, so who is to blame? The OEMs or the OS? I'd say the OS.
The only thing that beats WP7 in the games department is the iPhone. This is only true because of how long it has been out and it has the biggest market share. As a developer you developer programs for the largest group of potential buyers. Android does not factor in because it has a culture of having free apps and "free" apps. The latter being the reason why top game developers stay away.
so far i havnt seen anything from the 1ghz snapdragon processor to make me thnk its great. yes the wp7 interface is fast and fluid but the games themselves do not run as fluidly as i would like. despite having a 1ghz processor like the iphone, wp7 games dont seem to be as smooth probably running at 25 fps while i phone games look like they are running closer to 60 fps. im waiting for ilmilo milo or what ever its called to confrim this as so far it looks liek the smoothest wp7 game. rocket riot is currently the smoothest ive seen on wp7.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bootup, scroll, loading of native programs...I think that's a bit hefty right there
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. link?
2. was the game loaded on nand or sd card? Do we need to go through this ad nauseum? Nand is faster than sd card there is no question about that. However, in general sd card loading is SLOW. Period
3. You also fail to take into account graphic detail. let's be realistic. Windows Phone 7 does look better, and is larger than android games. Heck the Acreed game looks antiquated on android...and that's on the best android device
OK OP question has been answered. Thread gone to opinionated bias people who don't like facts. Opinion after opinion. Where are the facts?
Dude said Android has only one game that they can play against IOS, shaking my head. Then another guy says scrolling is faster when I asked what can you do faster, is that your best answer? Shaking my head. After that he said ACreed looks antique on Android, when in fact its the exact same game. I give up because you guys are not willing to accept faults and facts.
Enjoy your fantasy world, and let the shameless name calling continue.
Hmm I see recently there are overclockers on android that do magical things to their phone performance. Will we see such thing in wp7? And what about a benchmark.
I don't know how much faster you want your WP7 to run (unless you are on HTC WP7 phone), but benchmarks should be possible in the future. Of course, most devices are practically identical in terms of performance (sans the storage)...
For example when real hi-end games show up for wp7 like Dungeon Defenders and it starts lagging like hell you'll see what I have in mind
jan123456789012 said:
For example when real hi-end games show up for wp7 like Dungeon Defenders and it starts lagging like hell you'll see what I have in mind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those hi-end games will be designed for slowest WP7 devices, which is 1ghz.
All WP7 devices also support directx9c rendering capabilities, so, i doubt
that any games will have huge lags anytime soon.
Please read the rules. Keep discussion threads in WP7 General!
~~Tito~~
Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB RamvsMoto Atrix
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
I don't understand how comparing propably really crappy and badly coded Motorola gallery to WP7 standard gallery proves anything.
I.e. pinch to zoom was already smooth on my G1 running stock 2.2.1 and stock 3D gallery. It's not Android's fault that Motorola can't code fluid zooming into such powerful device.
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.
krjcook said:
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual core CPU isn't going to make graphics any faster. It doesn't on desktop and it won't on mobile devices either. Dual CPU has benefits when multi-tasking and it also allows the GUI to run at its optimum speed while running other apps. If apps are optimized for dual-cores, they too will run more efficiently.
But simply having two CPUs doesn't mean everything is two-times faster. This video does prove that WP7 has better GUI coding.
raven_raven said:
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a valid point. iPhones have been smooth and responsive since day one with lesser capapble hardware than the competition. Plain and simple, Android suffers from the same inefficient GUI programming that plagued Windows Mobile. Even if you made the Android device's CPU 4 or 8 times faster, it still wouldn't beat WP7 or iPhone smoothness and responsiveness.
I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.
zukа said:
I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same thing that frustrated me about Windows Mobile and keeps me from going Android. I'm impressed by iPhone and WP7 speed and responsiveness. That is a great feature for any device to have.
I saw this video this morning and was like..."really"?
the gallery on my gingerbread ROM on my HD2 runs more fluidly than both the phones in that video. I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans. That's the thing with Android, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software, and skin versions that you run the risk of getting a device not fully optimized to utilize its hardware, but you also get choice and freedom for more options.
The iPhone 4 has a lower clock speed than any WP7 device and it runs much more smoothly and is more responsive in every aspect than any WP7 phone, by your logic then, you should own iPhone 4s, especially since you can get a CDMA in less than a month.
I'd take a tegra2 android device over a WP7 device any day of the week (as long as it wasn't a motorola), although I'm happy with having a WP7 and an Android phone so I can either roll with big ass tiles or more options when I need them.
Oh wow a finger race. If that's how you are supposed to go thru your gallery wp7 is definitely a winner.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
orangekid said:
I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic:
Where do you get these magic beans from?!?!?!! I've been searching for milleniums!
WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery
@up You seem to understand what's going on, but it's sad how many muppets after seeing this video run around and scream: "OMG WP7 is SO BETTER THAN ANDROID" .
I think I'll make a video response to OP's video showing my Android gallery running as smooth as it can be.
krjcook said:
Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
<b>
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB RamvsMoto Atrix</b>
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.
blanket said:
WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps are programmed multi-threaded, it is not the point, the OS should be programmed to take an advantage of multiple cores (process scheduler, etc.).
Stupidity amuses me. What exactly is faster? Two completely different apps coded for different things?
The fact that articles are going up for this is more amazing. Ignorance is bliss.
Try loading the exact same app and doing a test.
MartyLK said:
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have your pinion, I have proof.
MartyLK said:
You have your pinion, I have proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? I think it's time I made another video
domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.
lqaddict said:
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android is not gpu accelerated. Who needs a source? it is not gpu optimized like ios or win phone
god even a google (a simple one) yields that
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=android+gpu+accelerated+OS?
I love how the Android fanboys crawled out of their holes like cockroaches to defend this. You'd almost think it was a personal insult...lol