Hey guys, check it out!
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/15/windows-phone-7-certified-microsd-cards-emerge-at-atandt-stores/
Too expensive and we knew a long time ago that the 8gb card from SanDisk was stable. I am getting ready to begin my own tests on cards to find a larger card that will be completely reliable. The target write speeds were posted on a tweet from Mix11 so now we know what to look for. Its sad the markup on this card.
Thanks for the post though
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
TOA Duck said:
Too expensive and we knew a long time ago that the 8gb card from SanDisk was stable. I am getting ready to begin my own tests on cards to find a larger card that will be completely reliable. The target write speeds were posted on a tweet from Mix11 so now we know what to look for. Its sad the markup on this card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they're a little too expensive for what you're getting, but its still nice to see Microsoft make good on their promise to make approved cards available.
Also could you post those target read/write speeds?
I don't particularly get this. 8GB? Isn't that the size we have anyway?
Or, is the idea for devices which have on-board memory (Omnia?) this could be an additional storage? Or is it simply, look we're bringing out official cards and soon they'll be 16GB, 32GB and 64GB?
Casey
Casey_boy said:
I don't particularly get this. 8GB? Isn't that the size we have anyway?
Or, is the idea for devices which have on-board memory (Omnia?) this could be an additional storage? Or is it simply, look we're bringing out official cards and soon they'll be 16GB, 32GB and 64GB?
Casey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is mostly for us Focus users, we have a card slot.
TOA Duck said:
Too expensive and we knew a long time ago that the 8gb card from SanDisk was stable. I am getting ready to begin my own tests on cards to find a larger card that will be completely reliable. The target write speeds were posted on a tweet from Mix11 so now we know what to look for. Its sad the markup on this card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One can't help but wonder, though, whether the use of this card, being certified, would be in compliance with the phone's warranty, where other cards would void it (in the event of a bricked phone).
Also, there could be increased quality standards applied to these cards, to confirm that they meet the necessary write speeds. Other cards that don't meet the requirement could still be sold, just not certified. So it could still be a gamble to use another card.
RoboDad said:
One can't help but wonder, though, whether the use of this card, being certified, would be in compliance with the phone's warranty, where other cards would void it (in the event of a bricked phone).
Also, there could be increased quality standards applied to these cards, to confirm that they meet the necessary write speeds. Other cards that don't meet the requirement could still be sold, just not certified. So it could still be a gamble to use another card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Necessary write speeds are.......well.........necessary write speeds. That's why they are certified because....well.....they meet the necessary write speeds . Nothing else needed.
As far as warranty....chances are its not gonna brick your card....plus most of us have done enough modding, hacking, cracking, fenagling, to already void our warranty. Lol
And here is the link to those target speeds.
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20...ry-and-agents-tidbits/?utm_source=twitterfeed
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I meant to say "brick your phone" not card.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
ATT users rejoice
btw ATT users rejoice (update 19 April)
http://www.winrumors.com/exclusive-att-windows-phone-7-nodo-update-due-april-19
TOA Duck said:
Necessary write speeds are.......well.........necessary write speeds. That's why they are certified because....well.....they meet the necessary write speeds . Nothing else needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you somehow misread my post.
What I said was that the certified cards are certified because they meet the necessary write speed requirements (which is what you just wrote, as if to correct me).
But, other batches of cards that don't meet the write speed requirement could still be sold by SanDisk, and on the outside they would look just like the certified cards (but they would not have the Windows Phone logo on the packaging).
If someone were to use one of those other cards, assuming it was just as good as the certified ones, they could have problems.
TOA Duck said:
Necessary write speeds are.......well.........necessary write speeds. That's why they are certified because....well.....they meet the necessary write speeds . Nothing else needed.
As far as warranty....chances are its not gonna brick your card....plus most of us have done enough modding, hacking, cracking, fenagling, to already void our warranty. Lol
And here is the link to those target speeds.
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20...ry-and-agents-tidbits/?utm_source=twitterfeed
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. R/W speeds were never the issue with SD Card Compatibility. You could get a Class 10 card and it'll still fail. It depends on how well the card performs with Random Access operations because of the way WP7 spans the storage system across multiple volumes.
And ensuring the random access performance of the card works well is harder the larger the card is, which probably has something to do with why most phones are 8 or 16GB. NAND storage would have the same issue if the RA performance wasn't up to par.
The R/W speeds were never a big issue. A class 2 card with decent RA performance can work just fine. They just needed to have certified cards so that people knew the cards would work.
But, all the current phones with SD cards make you void your warranty to use one. I wonder how they will handle this should anything happen...
It's much easier to undo hacking, fanangling, cracking, whatever than it is to replace an OEM warranty sticker that you had to remove/break to put the card in...
N8ter said:
Wrong. R/W speeds were never the issue with SD Card Compatibility. You could get a Class 10 card and it'll still fail. It depends on how well the card performs with Random Access operations because of the way WP7 spans the storage system across multiple volumes.
And ensuring the random access performance of the card works well is harder the larger the card is, which probably has something to do with why most phones are 8 or 16GB. NAND storage would have the same issue if the RA performance wasn't up to par.
The R/W speeds were never a big issue. A class 2 card with decent RA performance can work just fine. They just needed to have certified cards so that people knew the cards would work.
But, all the current phones with SD cards make you void your warranty to use one. I wonder how they will handle this should anything happen...
It's much easier to undo hacking, fanangling, cracking, whatever than it is to replace an OEM warranty sticker that you had to remove/break to put the card in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of that you just said is what I meant. You just explained it better.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
N8ter said:
But, all the current phones with SD cards make you void your warranty to use one. I wonder how they will handle this should anything happen...
It's much easier to undo hacking, fanangling, cracking, whatever than it is to replace an OEM warranty sticker that you had to remove/break to put the card in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, you don't void your Warranty on the Samsung Focus if you put a card in it. I even had problems with my first one with a card in it and AT&T replaced the phone no questions asked.
That's nice but Microsoft never should have allowed OEMs to release 8GB phones, anyways. Storage is way too cheap to have anything less than 16. There's a reason why Apple discontinued 8GB models of the iPhone/iTouch. They were a waste and in many cases users ended up scratching their heads because 8GB simply ins't a lot of storage.
Those cards are super expensive, anyways.
The only thing that would make me buy an 8GB phone + card is the fact that manufacturers charge like $50-100 to go from 8 to 15 or 16 to 32 GB, which is highway robbery...
Related
Interesting.....
Some Windows Phones have a Secure Digital (SD) card that's used to expand the amount of storage space on the phone. If your phone has one, it's in an SD card slot underneath the battery cover on the back of your phone.
Windows Phone uses a special high–performance SD card that works differently than SD cards in other devices. When your phone is built and first set up, its internal storage and SD card are combined and recognized as one storage system.
Warning
You should not remove the SD card in your phone or replace it with a new one because your Windows Phone won't work properly. Existing data on the phone may be lost, and that SD card can't be used in other devices or Windows Phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx
RustyGrom said:
Interesting.....
Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you could but would have to re-flash your rom.
rruffman said:
yes you could but would have to re-flash your rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source? All we have is rumors but the MS page implies that it's not that easy.
I figure you might get a chance to swap the card properly before first boot, i.e. right after unboxing.
--edit: On the other hand, might these be those new SD cards with additional contacts to allow very highspeed IO. (new UHS-I standard)
Tom Servo said:
I figure you might get a chance to swap the card properly before first boot, i.e. right after unboxing.
--edit: On the other hand, might these be those new SD cards with additional contacts to allow very highspeed IO. (new UHS-I standard)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes they are so if you get your hands on one then you are correct before boot 1st time or if you reflash your phone. i read it on a few blogs awhile back will have to find it again and repost it here...
RustyGrom said:
Interesting.....
Seems pretty bogus to me that they're unique to WP7 mechanically. Maybe just the file system is special? Should allow upgrading/replacing I would think.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/basics/sd-cards-and-my-phone.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cards themselves might not be that special other than having a correct SN range or something. The Barnes and Noble NOOK which runs android does this. The main on board memory is a microsd card that you can actually pull if you rip your nook apart, but it wont accept other microsd's even if they were cloned from the original card.
julienrl said:
The cards themselves might not be that special other than having a correct SN range or something. The Barnes and Noble NOOK which runs android does this. The main on board memory is a microsd card that you can actually pull if you rip your nook apart, but it wont accept other microsd's even if they were cloned from the original card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. Thanks. I guess the difference here is that WP7 is made by a bunch of different people so it would be harder to code in this sort of restriction.
Just saw this in an article about the Samsung Focus...
It's also the only Windows Phone that can expand with memory cards, according to an AT&T spokesman.
All the new Windows Phone 7's work similarly, as they're all based on Qualcomm's 1-GHz QSD8250 chipset with very similar hardware stats, including HSDPA 7.2, Wi-Fi, and a 5-megapixel camera. The Focus has 8GB of memory built in, but an AT&T spokesman at the launch said a MicroSD card up to 32GB could be added, provided you factory reset the phone when you do. If that's true, the Focus can expand up to 40GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2370586,00.asp
Pocketnow is concurring that WP7 supports upgrading the card.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-7-does-support-removable-storage-proof
I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.
Sir. Haxalot said:
I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally. There's no stopping them from building a 16 or 32GB. They should have figured out we'd spend a few more dollars to get those extra storage
Wandy_1974 said:
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally. There's no stopping them from building a 16 or 32GB. They should have figured out we'd spend a few more dollars to get those extra storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.
lumpaywk said:
This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want 16GB min but hoping to have the option for 32GB +. Hope they wake up soon as I love the look of winm7.
But without better storage, I will not be upgrading anytime soon.
Wandy_1974 said:
Blame it on the hardware vendor. MS state that the min is 8GB, so they all quickly built phones with 8GB naturally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, since this isn't surprising anyone then I think MS could have expected it. And I will still blame them because they didn't make 16GB the minimum.
lumpaywk said:
This is true, I am in love with what Microsoft have made, but they have been let down badly by the hardware manufacturers. I really hope there is options for more storage ie like the iphone when they go on sale and the 8gb models where just used for showing of the handsets. One bit of hope for this is that the storage capacity is not shown on the wp7 websites handset specs. I would kill for a 16/32gb mozart or omnia 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the SAMSUNG FOCUS is currently the only phone that will allow for upgrading the storage you can simply insert your 32 gb sd card before youfirst start you phone on 40gb it is... or insert it at a later time and hard reset and you are good to go...
i would thus jump on the focus but alas i live in england and so we get the rubbish. It seems they are holding all the good handsets for the USA (by good i mean with more than 8gb storage). This is a real kick in the balls as i was hoping i wouldn't need to replace my stolen zune hd as i was going to get a wp7 but it would seem this will actually still have to be the case.
Saying this i did have a little hope with "the device can be picked up in 8GB and 16GB capacities." from http://www.mobiletor.com/2010/10/12/samsung-makes-a-mark-with-new-omnia-7-smartphone/ though tbh i once again don't think this will be the case in the uk.
16GB as a minimum sounds a little high. I am not sure who is really to blame for this storage fiasco, but how can they expect the multimedia users to work with only 8GB storage? And when I say they I mean phone makers and MS.
But an intriguing question would be why does one handset allow the removable storage to be upgraded and not the others?
So my question is about the type/class SD card that we can use to upgrade the Focus. I can only find an SDXC USH-I 64GB card for over $300. If the phone is using some kind of Raid 0 storage implementation, does it require a memory card that costs almost 50% more than the phone will cost?
What kind of SD card will the Focus require?
lavike said:
So my question is about the type/class SD card that we can use to upgrade the Focus. I can only find an SDXC USH-I 64GB card for over $300. If the phone is using some kind of Raid 0 storage implementation, does it require a memory card that costs almost 50% more than the phone will cost?
What kind of SD card will the Focus require?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
microsoft did say something about "high speed" cards but did not give what they were.. however the focus will only support up to 32gb not sure why..
Sir. Haxalot said:
I have a request.
ANYONE who is lucky enogh to get their hands on a WP7 device. If possible, check if there is a memory card uner the battery.
I do not understand what the **** MS is doing. Currently there's only one phone on the market with more than 8GB storage, and this will be rare, hard to get because I don't think I'm the only one that want one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are multiple phones with more than 8GB of storage on the market
Several Nokia N series have 32GB of storage N97 and N900 for example and both have the ability to add up to 32GB more
Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
Windows Phone 7s won't support user-replaceable memory cards, Kindel said. Microsoft will work with OEMs to make sure that phones have enough storage for media and 3D games, but there will be no MicroSD cards for your music. Some phones could have a MicroSD locked under the battery, but it won't be user-replaceable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!
Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.
Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense
That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.
MartyLK said:
Sounds like PCWorld's diatribe. They are putting out false statements about WP7. Makes me wonder if certain competitors aren't paying for this misinformation.
PCWorld nonsense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow... seems like PocketNow and PCWorld don't like each other. Maybe they should take things outside?
@N8ter... good points.
albinojoe said:
Infoworld is actually pretty respected. Im surprised they ran that story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
You can argue whether Windows Phone 7 devices (or iPhones, for that matter) should support standard removable-media formats. But that isn't the point. In this case, Windows Phone 7 is doing exactly what it was designed to do, and what Microsoft said it would do all along.
If Microsoft deserves any blame, it's for relaxing its original "no external storage" rule and letting its hardware partners confuse customers by using a nonproprietary physical standard for a proprietary purpose. I can see why customers are confiused and angry. But blame HTC, LG, and Samsung for this mess. It's their fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
N8ter said:
That's what happens when the manufacturers are stupid and the users are gullible.
Everyone knew MONTHS upon MONTHS ahead of time not to expect to replace the SD Card, and Manufacturers are putting all sorts of things in place to disuade people from doing it.
But people are still trying to do it, anyways. Some going as far as basically disassembling their phones to get at the card slot (the same slot that probably exists in dozens of other phone types).
That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying thing is the number of threads that popped up after the Windows Phone 7 launch full of people complaining about the phones not working after the SD was replaced (probably with the cheapest, lowest quality SD card they could find), having warranty stickers over the SD slot, or (in the case of the Dell Venure Pro) not even having an Eject Mechanism in the SD Card Slot (to prevent people from removing it - or at least give thems something to think about when they try...).
I think Microsoft had recommended the Manufacturers actually gluing the SD cards in the phones, because they knew what would happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
vangrieg said:
Microsoft are to blame for setting the minimum requirement too low and allowing SD cards at all. They and everybody knew that OEMs would make phones with small cards users would want to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Users knew the phones wouldn't be upgradeable.
They should have just not brought a phone with a small storage capacity.
The only way to run out of space on a 8GB storage capacity WP7 device is to download every song you listen to on Zune Pass (but you can set Zune to not use all you storage... trivially) and load it up with Games (and at 250MB a game even that is a bit much... how many games do you play really?).
That being said. I do think 8GB capacity should be reserved for low-mid end smartphones with low-mid end pricing.
I personally wouldn't pay that much for an 8GB device. That's why I brought a Vibrant even though I was carrier shopping at the time and there were 8GB Droid X's, Evos, Droid Incredibles, etc. available. For some people: No, they don't need all that space, but knowing it's available gives them an extreme level of comfort. I'm one of those people.
But I won't go buy an 8GB device and then complain that it doesn't have enough storage - especially when I knew what the specs were, and that the cards wouldn't be user replaceable, weeks to months ahead of their release.
MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are the same people who were ignorantly ripping out PCMCIA Cards and unplugging USB Mass Storage devices back when they they weren't so "hot pluggable" and the icon in the system tray popped up a tip obviously telling them to click there and select "Remove Device" before they actually removed it.
Nothing can help these people.
smuook said:
Being a new Samsung Focus owner, I'm as stupified as everyone else about the microsd problems. This is a major upgrade option that should have been ready to go at WP7 launch. You would think Samsung and AT&T would have a vested interest in getting this right. Shame on them. But as I'm searching the Interent trying to find information on the correct cards, all I see is a flood of "so-called" experts bashing Microsoft and trying to make this into a big scandal. The truth is, Microsoft put this information out 8 months ago...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361377,00.asp
But all of a sudden, the Internet is flooded with articles about how Microsoft screwed up...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1897918/windows-phone-hotel-california-microsd-cards
http://www.infoworld.com/t/smartphones/windows-phone-7-eats-micro-sd-cards-381
http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-phone-7-traps-your-microsd-card-forever
http://hothardware.com/News/Windows-Phone-7-Allegedly-Breaks-MicroSD-Cards/
The list goes on and on. Granted, the credibility of these blogs and websites are pretty much nonexistent. I'm sure none of these people who wrote these even bothered to actually pick up a WP7 phone. The real story hear is how eager people are for sensationalism, for whatever bias they have. I guess since I'm talking about this issue, they did their job.
Anyway, thanks to xda-devs, I can sort through all this garbage.
I luv you xda-devs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
smuook said:
Looks like they ran another story as well that indirectly contradicts the other one...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7s-sd-card-problem-not-microsofts-fault-385
That pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
MartyLK said:
Wow! Imagine all the warranty requests or returns that would result from morons that pried on the card to remove it only to break it and then cuss out the manufacturer for putting it in too tight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.
MartyLK said:
I actually know guys that would argue with anyone who told them the card wasn't replaceable (as in expandable storage). Their rationality would be that it's a MicroSD card, it has to be replaceable. And they are ones whom you would not convince otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.
A chip would be better but more expensive. OEMs just opted for a cheaper option, as usual.
nrfitchett4 said:
wow, what misinformation. Funny how this new formatting technology has been around for a long time.
As long as you use a class2 sandisk, it seems ok.
why would that be a warranty claim? Taking apart your phone voids the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it was rational or logical. "Moron" is all I needed to say. You know...the type that shoots themselves in the face while looking down the barrel of a gun to see if there's a bullet inside. They then make claims against the gun maker saying it was unsafe. The gun should not fire when pointed at your face.
ohgood said:
the rational of "microsd is replaceable" is correct. any microsd laying on a table is considered a user-replaceable piece of hardware. any, and all microsd inside a phone, camera, laptop, etc is considered a user replaceable piece of hardware. it's a very simple piece of user replaceable hardware, and that's why it's given in the microsd format (size, shape, storage type).
placing a warrantee sticker over a portion of the phone/device is ASKING for people to pry it away and see what is underneath. warrantee be damned, if the hardware is purchased by a user, it now belongs to said user, reguardless of what a UELA says.
the right way to spec a cheaper board (beit OEM or M$) and then plop on a microsd for storage would have been to put it in a place the user couldn't access. complete disassembly of the phone would have made more sense. glueing it in without sandwiching it between layers of phone would have been a bad idea also. users would damage the phone trying to remove, as stated already.
the decision to use a striped microsd card in a user accessible location was just a poor choice. soldering a 8,16, or 32Gb chip on would have been much better. call it iphone-esque, but it wouldn't have been in discussion or confusion -now-.
also
what happened to the "proprietary sdcard" statement i've seen in the past ? has it been debunked, or is it still current ?
sidenote: i'm all for cheap, huge buckets of microsd storage myself.
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So it is acceptable to require a company to foot the bill for stupidity? If the owner removes the warranty sticker knowing it voids the warranty, do they have the right to seek warranty repairs when they F it up?
There's only one device with a card that's easily installed, the Focus. The rest make it hard to get to. AT&T and Samsung were advertising this feature, basically against Microsoft's wishes. Now they're all having to backpedal.
I believe there's a software issue here that is exacerbating these problems. The OS is just not resilient enough. I hope Microsoft resolves the software issues and allows more OEMs to ship devices like the Focus which gives the user the choice in how much storage someone needs. 8gb (the WP7 minimum) is PLENTY of storage for a vast number of people. But many of us want more. I'm OK (but not overly joyed) with the cards not being able to be reformatted. Just have to pretend that the storage is embedded.
Regardless of what Microsoft has posted in the past, they had to know about the Focus having the slot long before it was released. So, they obviously planned to allow it at some level. Now, they have only focused on saying that it is not swappable without a hard reset.
Personally, I am glad the slot is there on the Focus. I wouldn't have bought the Focus otherwise. I don't like the Surround or the LG WP7 devices, and I need atleast 16GB of storage. I now have 24GB and I have not had a single problem. I initially had an 8GB Centon Class 6 and replaced that with a 16GB PNY Class 2. I was able to reformat the Centon, using a Nokia Symbian phone, and gave it to a friend to use in his Focus.
I am not sure how or why Samsung was able to offer the accessible SD slot, but I am glad they did.
As far as the media is concerned, the quality of journalism with the online blogs (and even PC-World and other "respected" publications) has been in a decline for the last few years. Ever since blogging started becoming so mainstream, the publications have turned into an assimily of the type FOX, NBC, CNN, etc. fight for ratings or viewers. It is very disappointing.
Apple's "debacle" with the iPhone 4 antenna wasn't anything close to what some made it out to be but Apple still paid a pretty steep price for it. What comes around goes around. If people weren't so gullible or taken to this endless "Us vs Them" mentality, none of this would be an issue.
Personally, I stuck a Sandisk 8GB class 2 card in my Focus and with like 2GB or available storage free it still works as perfectly as it did the day I bought the phone. Something else, too...I didn't waste my time with SD cards in WinMo phones because they were even slower than the rest of the phone. Whatever Microsoft did has improved I/O speed by a magnitude and I welcome it.
Forgive me if this had been discussed before, but does anyone have any idea why Microsoft would program an OS that supposedly was built from the ground up to NOT support external MicroSD cards? It would seem that in this day and age that it would have been in the top 5 list of "had to be included." Instead they gave the manufacturers their specs for 8GB of internal RAM and that was it. What in the world was Microsoft thinking?
I'm actually happy that Samsung said "screw that" and made a MicroSD slot that was user accessible. That basically forced Microsoft to rethink their strategy, especially after the first patch "fiasco."
Does anyone here have any inside information as to why the MicroSD card wasn't on their list of "must have" for Windows 7? Do you think they were trying to pull an Apple strategy where they can sell an 8GB phone, a 16GB phone, and a 32GB phone to try to make more money?
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
Scrtcwlvl said:
MicroSD cards ARE supported by WP7, in fact all but a few WP7 devices have them.
What you are looking for is called "removable" & "user-accessible"/"upgradeable" storage.
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well all the HTC ones use microSD, as well as the DELL Venue Pro, where as all LG phones use NAND, and Samsung uses NAND (with the exception of focus offering an external microSD slot).
The main reason why MS didn't want it exposed is because of the way it uses the microSD card. The use of it in an actual secured RAID 0 format means that it makes the card unusable by any other means making the data secure on the chip. And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
The Gate Keeper said:
And they knew that people would complain so they didn't want the OEMs to offer it as a user accessible slot, but they didn't enforce it. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing though.
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I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
nathantw said:
I guess now that the genie is out of be bottle it appears that Microsoft will now need to address this dilemma. It appears that people are okay with the idea that once the microSD card is used by a WP7 phone that it can't be reused in something else. I know I'm okay with it if the phone is functional with more space to save music, videos, games, etc. I currently have a 8GB card in my phone, but what I really wanted was a 32GB card but after hearing how unstable it was I held back. It was the inability to use the 32GB card that made me ask the original question.
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Samsung Focus' implementation of SD is flawed either in hardware level or software level or both. There is no problem using any size or type of SD cards in any other WP7 phones not made by Samsung. MicroSD cards have been around for very long time. There is really no reason for a phone, especially one that is designed to take user removeable SD card, to not support all kinds of cards.
Now you have Samsung Focus not only doesn't support majority of SD cards out there but also refuses to accept updates from Micrsoft. It sounds like Samsung has a hatrate against WP7
I think MS saw the problems that Android had with removable storage and decided to require a minimum of 8gb and do away with any sort of removable storage. This makes the OS more stable as a whole.
i think MS did not want ppl to load android on WP7 dvice thats why they did this to the memory card...
They're trying to stop piracy, there's many Android sites out there on the internet that'll give you APKs of premium android apps that have been ripped off people's memory cards and uploaded.
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
It may seem bad to you but from a developer point of view it's awesome. And before anyone goes on about encryption etc, people will find a way to hack through that they always do.
brummiesteven said:
It doesn't help that with Android you have 24 hours to request a refund and therefore can buy, rip from memory card and refund.
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i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
^ care to check facts first. 24 hours?
..........edit .... gate keeper beat me to it.
You can also say the same for IOS, and WebOS. Piracy will come, there is no stopping it.
The Gate Keeper said:
i believe this is now only 15 minutes, which a lot of people think is a bit too short of a time frame as well. this is why the setup MS did was quite smart, offering the capabilities for devs to implement a trial mode within their full app.
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which is still enough time to rip the apk and still get a refund.
And as I sit here being frustrated that more devs are going to an ad supported model, I think I have found the reason why....
yea it is enough time to perform that. but to a general user 15 minutes isn't enough time to see if the app was worth the purchase.
the market place needs better search capabilities for trial apps, that's all. once they are there, then more people will start using the trial apps and if they deem it worth it they would buy it.
Because choosing is hard
I wanted to go, by popular recommendation, for a Sandisk but they are simply limited or very very VERY expensive for their preformance-price ratio. So what memory card brand do you go for?
If Im missing any important ones, please post them
Thanks Rifle although a "Why" would have been nice
I'd say SanDisk, they may be more expensive for the class of card but generaly a x2 card from them will reach x6 speeds, So if you want the fastest go Sandisk
MacaronyMax said:
I'd say SanDisk, they may be more expensive for the class of card but generaly a x2 card from them will reach x6 speeds, So if you want the fastest go Sandisk
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Thanks for the reasoning
Most arent going to like this but I went to a Lexar 32GB Class 10 because I got a deal...
Thanks for all the help
The write speed is impressive (11.6 MB) but suffered at the beginning. Well, I was warned so I cant say anything about it.
Thanks once more for everyone help, advice and facts. You learn something everyday.
I only use SanDisk. They have some of the better read and write speeds and life span is better than most.
Once I bought an inferior SD card and lost all of my files. I could not get them back even with a file recovery program.
usin sandisk n kingston n patriot. nothin wrong so far so ill go with those 3.
Well I have not much idea which to go for, but I can say which one NOT to go for..
Kingmax
personal experience, it makes ext A2SD apps keep FC-ing because it's easy to corrupt.
riahc3 said:
The write speed is impressive (11.6 MB) but suffered at the beginning. Well, I was warned so I cant say anything about it.
Thanks once more for everyone help, advice and facts. You learn something everyday.
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You should test the access speed and random read and write speeds if you can... I was curious about that card, cause lexar used to be a quality brand. Use CrystalDiskMark and HD Tach to get a good all around rating of the different speeds. CrystalDiskMark will give you the seqential read and write, and the random read and write with different size data, while HD Tach will give you the access time in microseconds, which is a score I've never seen any other benchmark tests do. A combo of those 2 test apps will give a good idea of the performance of your card in the areas that really matter when using with a phone. PM me if you need copies of the apps.
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of deal did you get on that card?
If you or anyone else ever has questions regarding sd cards, feel free to ask me. I'd be glad to help out. I've been researching them now for several months and have learned quite a bit. I've found that there is so much misinformation out there, and the card manufacturers just make it worse.
And there's more realistic counterfeit cards out there than ever... even reputable sources can get them easily. The way the factories and manufacturing process works allows many opportunities for defective or low end cards to make it to market, which technically are genuine and have the gb size they're suppose to, but they underperform compared to what they're suppose to. I bet 25% of card owners out there have chips in their cards that were suppose to be discarded or have cards that don't perform as well as they're suppose to, but don't even realize that they're card is not completely legitimate. Even the manufacturers can't tell the difference from some counterfeits and the real ones without extensive testing and opening up the card to inspect the chips.
There's a bigger market for counterfeit than I think anyone realizes. That;s why if the deal seems too good, it probably is. Even through amazon you can get counterfeits or bottom of the barrel. I bet over 99% of ebay sellers sell counterfeit/low grade cards, even if they have 100% good feedback, cause they're good enough to pass as genuine, but you won't get the best performance from them that you could with a real. That's why I never buy from ebay and never buy bulk packaging cards in most cases, unless there is documentation and proof and full part numbers.
Also, to OP and anyone else this interests... I meant to respond earlier..you had told me in other thread that the ebay seller sent you a part number for that cheap sandisk. A sandisk card with part number SDSDQ-032G is not a full part number... all sandisk 32gb start with that number, and with bulk packaged ones they will say thats the part number... but its missing the important 4 extra digits at the end which all produced cards should have, like A11M or B36A, etc. If I can't find out the full part number, I wouldn't buy it in bulk packaging like that, because thats one of the times that low grade or counterfeit cards can be sold to retailers as legitimate, when they may not be. Even on Amazon, these bulk packaging sandisk cards oare sold with the part number sdsdq-032g, but without rest of the part number which is actually the meaningful part. Well, a few people who bought those from amazon found that they had gotten counterfeit. 1 of them even ended up being on 4GB but was reprogrammed to say 32gb in any computer.
So now a days, when purchasing an expensive SD card, take your time and be careful where you but from. Spend the extra to make sure you get quality, legitimate cards... it's worth it as a legitimate card will perform better and last longer. A low-grade one that didn't pass quality control which end up being sold by people anyways or cards that are smaller but reprogrammed to look bigger and real may work fine for a while, but will probably break quicker or performance will not be what it's suppose to be and may get much worse over time and when it's filled with more data, and it'll probably cost you more in the long run. Also, especially if you have important data on you card, you don't want to risk damaging, corrupting, or completely losing it.
Remember, if it's a much cheaper price than any other store like newegg or provantage sell them for, you have to wonder how they can sell so much cheaper, considering places like newegg or provantage buy directly from sandisk and probably get better prices than less well-known sellers would. The smaller shops and ebay sellers that sell really cheap buy bulk packaging cards which usually will be the cards that couldn't pass quality control to be sold in sandisk retail packs, or could be a mixture of many different sources, some possible being completely fake, or make by factory workers with chips that were suppose to be destroyed, or cards stolen from factory by workers, etc.
Most counterfeits are actually made in the production factories by workers making extra cash on the side, so they may be exactly like a real one except the chips happened to be lower quality and didn't pass quality control. Sometimes some manufacturers themselves will even sell the bottom of the barrel cards in bulk for real cheap instead of destroying them. There really isn't much profit made with these cards, so to compete with other companies like sandisk, who own their own factories, and keep prices low, they will cut corners and sell cards that are lower quality than they should be. There's a blog out there that found Kingston doing this.
Well, even info for now.... I have so much info and things I've learned the last few months about the memory card market and production practices, I could go on for pages, but I do think most of you really care to know all this.
I'm just trying to help my fellow xda brothers to make sure they get what is best for them and not get cheated. It's easy for a seller to make himself look legit and satisfy average consumers, but I know most here at XDA want the best for their money and their devices.
Sorry to go so off-topic... I should actually start a new thread to organize and put all this info so more people will see it and benefit. I can also put test results showing the important ratings of the different cards, like random read and write, and access speeds. Class ratings are so misleading and people who know no better will pay too much attention to class ratings when looking for cards for their phones. Class was good for digital cameras, cause it only rates SEQUENTIAL write speed, when with phones, random speeds is much more important, and for some uses, access speed is most important.
Class rating is so deceptive, and should be gotten rid of, and should at least have strict guidelines and have other ratings added. A class 2 Sandisk has faster sequential write speeds than most class 6 Kingston, PQI, A-Data, and many other brands.
I think I'm going to start working on a thread to give the straight truth about memory cards and give real ratings of the different brands, showing not only sequential speeds, but also random speeds and access times. It'll be my contribution to this great community, and will help many people when trying to find a good card for their needs... and and hopefully make people realize that higher class does not mean better card in most cases. With smartphones, generally higher class cards perform worse than lower class cards.... but what you're using it for and whet brand card it is makes a big difference there.
Anyone out there with different sd cards willing to help out by benchmarking if I decide to make this thread? It's be a few weeks before I'll have the time to really set a detailed thread like this, but I think it would help a lot of people and help make xda members more informed and dispel a lot of myths about sd cards.
Sandisk
Kingston
Transcend
I have never ever had any problems with these companies flash products
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well,SanDisk,but can't say i've tried many more.This is what i mostly find in shops from my country.In conclusion i am not disappointed in any way
I bought from Aliexpress. Mine's a 32GB microsd card, and it cost me $12 shipped directly from CHINA. Well, the write is about 4MBPS, and Im happy with that. I just wanted to able to play 720p videos on my Mytouch, and it works perfect for that. It hasnt led me down yet.
BTW get the SD BOOSTER from the market, some xda dev created it and it boosts your random access write/read speeds. So I have that set on boot.
You can't go wrong with SanDisk.
I don't really care about brands on this. I recently got a new SanDisk MicroSD, but I only chose them because it was the cheapest 32GB I could find. Works great though.
EDIT: Just checked - My old 2GB is a Sandisk, and i have a 2GB full-sized SD from Optima in my point and shoot camera. I also think I have a 256MB Sandisk floating around here somewhere
But, all in all, none have been anything but great.
We are using Kingston micro SD card 32gig, if that helps there are some cheap ones around too like eBay, Amazon etc....
Also Kingston are now doing class 4 and 10 now on there 32gig
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
I've had nothing but bad experiences from kingston. They don't produce their own chips, so the only way they can compete pricewise is to buy bottom of barrel,cheap chips from manufacturers like sandisk. Kingston gets the chips that aren't good enough to pass sandisk or other manufacturers quality control.
I had their class 4 32GB microsd card and it was 3 times slower than sandisks class 2 32GB cards.
i have not had any problems with ours, so maybe you have had some bad one
Patriot 32Gb Class 4. Got it at fry's for $59.00
I really have not run any speed tests but apps running from SD seem to work fine.
I've had excellent results with A-Data. 16gb class 6 card.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA Premium App
Hi all,
I just bought a Samsung Class 10 16gb micro sdhc with supposed sustained read and write speeds of 24 and 21 mb/s.
I think that I could benefit from swap with everything that I have running on my phone. Has anyone set up swap on the g2 and found improvements? I figure this sd card just might be viable for swap.
Can someone point me in the direction of a reliable apps2sd solution as well? I had tried the native android method on my old class 2 that had 12/10 rw speeds (sandisk baby) and things got sticky quickly. I think LauncherPro also crashes on boot when you run apps2sd.
Thanks!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
What a load of crap. This is the card I bought: http://bit.ly/seteMC .
After testing the card I can barely reach 6MB/s write speed. Be warned... I tried to chat with one of Samsung's reps and he denied they even manufacture this card, and could not help me. I would expect Samsung to stand behind their products and perhaps send me a new one that worked. I had to argue with the rep to prove that Samsung makes this card! I had to point him to Samsung's own website to make my point, but because the webpage had 'UK' in it, I was told I couldn't get a replacement in the US. I finally showed him the US version of that page with my card. Ultimately I was told I had to call Samsung directly to speak to someone who had expertise with this product.
How is a company supposed to stand behind their products, when their first point of contact for customers don't know what products they make?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App