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I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
Shasarak said:
I know I'm going to get my head bitten off for saying this, but in some ways I'm actually not that big a fan of HTC's phones. They're often ridiculously slow to incorporate new tech (such as faster CPUs). They have a very long track-record of failing to include adequate drivers on their phones, so that even when the hardware is respectable, the software cannot take advantage of it. They fail to include important software elements (compare, for example, the video playing applications on HTC phones with what you get on high-end Toshiba or Samsung devices). And they also have a very tiresome philosophy of treating their own products like feature-phones; if you grumble about the fact that some piece of third party software doesn't work properly on an HTC phone, they don't care - not even when the reason it doesn't work is because HTC has failed to include some important drivers; as far as HTC is concerned, any non-HTC software installed on your phone is not their problem, and they'd be happier if you didn't install 3rd party software on it at all. And (compared to Nokia, Samsung, or Sony Ericsson) the cameras are terrible!
And yet, I used to own a Touch Pro2, and I now own an HD2. Why? Because there are three very important things that HTC phones do have going for them.
1) They sometimes have exceptional hardware - not in terms of the internals (like the CPU and GPU), but in terms of the device form factor. The Touch Pro2 has the nicest hardware keyboard I've ever seen on a phone, for example; the HD2 has the nicest screen I've seen on a phone.
2) They do some interesting things with user-interface customisations. The most obvious example of this is Sense UI; but this also includes things like adding pinch-to-zoom support on the HD2.
3) The single biggest advantage HTC phones have, of course, is this forum. There are some very, very smart people here, and the work they produce can transform an HTC phone from mediocre into remarkable.
But... what's going to happen in the WP7S world? Innovative form factors will be a lot harder to achieve, partly because the platform is so locked down, but also because the minimum requirements are set so high. Large-scale customisations of the GUI will also be banned, so HTC WP7S phones can't have Sense UI on them any more. And as for this forum... well, how many keen WM6.x developers around here are likely to become WP7S developers? It seems like most of them are either planning to jump ship to Android, or get out of the free tweaks and utilities game and start selling apps for money through the WP7S marketplace. It's not at all clear that it will even be possible to flash custom ROMs onto a WP7S phone; hell, we may not even be able to edit the registry, for all we know; certainly there will no more .cab installs. So how much of a contribution will this forum be able to make to WP7S devices?
So, while things like the lack of drivers will hopefully no longer be an issue on WP7S phones from HTC (HTC will have no choice but to include them, and MS will write them, so there won't be so much of a problem with Qualcomm being difficult), it is hard to see what features those WP7S HTC devices will have which makes them stand out from the crowd in any meaningful way.
What do you think?
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i think htc will depend on sales only on android devices as it is still customizable (which htc is special at and that differes it from other devices ) but when going to wp7 no thing will specialize htc phones so no big sales like before
the only thing they can do is use the most highest specs in the phone to stand out but samsung seems to pull out high spec'ed phones before most of companies.
i was thinking how screwed spb is as they have a lot of software that they can use on wm (shell, keyboard etc) and i know they are making the shell on android but why would someone with android and to spend $30 on a widget based shell when they already have one.
IIRC, SPB was listed as one of the 'key partners' for WP7S, so they must have something cooking!
HTC is a HARDWARE company. When did TouchFlo first come out? With the release of the Touch Diamond right? Not all that long ago (late 2007). I always saw TouchFlo as a "necessary evil" and that HTC was just polishing a turd. They got really good at it and the more recent Sense products are pretty darn good but it's still an adulteration of their core business. They'll continue to exist as a HARDWARE company and they will still do some value-add software development likely through a Sense application that integrates weather, twitter, Footprints, etc.
It'll be interesting to see what SPB comes out with for WP7. Maybe they can still make some kinda shell it just can't be set up to over take the start menu and has to be launched each time you start the device. Of course they would probably need some priveledged API's to do anything worth doing.
Also, I don't just love HTC because of Manilla. I've had HTC devices before manilla ever came out. I just love the design of there hardware. That's what really drives me. Any device can have UI's put on it but you can't just change the design by installing a cab.
Great question here. I agree that despite excellent form factors, nice materials and very decent build quality, HTC failed in many areas of making great devices, and the problem was primarily with software. Even Manila, which I enjoy greatly, is an example of how not to build interfaces - 3000 lua files, no customization, no APIs to hook other services or programs, it is all mediocre stuff on the inside. Drivers have caused many frustrations over the years, they constantly failed to document any APIs they used, and always refused to take into account complaints and requests, repeating their "this is not an entertainment/gaming/whatever device" mantras.
With a software company taking charge of software, I think HTC devices will get much better. So I'm rather optimistic with regard to my possible future use of HTC products.
However, they do lose ability to differentiate themselves from other OEMs with WP7, and their ambitions to become a large cell phone manufacturer in the same league with Nokia & Co. now look a bit too optimistic. So yeah, they may go through some difficult times in search of self-identification.
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than the fact that Microsoft has announced that HTC is one of its major partners on the WP7S project, you mean?
First of all, microsoft dont care about their costumers, we can see that cos theiy did sayd silly excuses about how their new OS wont implement cos some lack of buttons, after that cos lack of some small sume of memory ( ROM ), and they expect from us, to trow into the garbage machines what we did pay 600 eu and to get new i guess with win7 and waste another 600 eu. That is the way how they are working. MONEY , and screw the rest
I'm surprised no one thinks MS won't give a damn if all the WM OEM's give them the finger, they will just contract the manufacture of the hardware out to one of the said OEM's to produce "microsofts" design and specs.......microsoft will make more money, the OEM's like HTC...less, this is imo what the whole point of what they're doing is.....they want total control and a cut of every pie, OS, software, downloadable content, and hardware.....there's not enough money in only producing OS software, and I suspect a point of annoyance at money others make off their platform.
They will FLOURISH :
-geeks like us ( small proportion of marketplace ) will not buy their stuff
-normal people ( huge proportion of marketplace ) will buy their "user-friendly" WP7 stuff
HUGE PROFIT !
ZaxXx said:
I just think HTC will continue making phones with WM6.5 and Android. There is no reason why would HTC use WP7 on their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a thought and suspicion HTC will not continue developing devices with wm6.5 for long.
The last official rom updates for Diamond 2 and touch pro2 have sence 2.5. Why? because HTC sees no reason to continue development of sense? so lets just give it all for everyone. Now software vice there is no real differance between a Diamond 2 and HD2 only a compass, footprints and business card reader.
so software vice its like iPhone 3G and 3GS
so it looks like we are on the beta max phone right now
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes, innocent babies get AIDS from their drug addicted parents. We can't seem to comprehend the weird actions of the parents in producing An Intelligence Deficiency System (AIDS) --- a mobile phone OS that lacks so many basic essential features; we might speculate the parents were in psychedelic high, sharing dirty needles, and spread AIDS to each other. The babies (innocent young developers) will mostly likely get AIDS. Some of them who have just learn how to talk have gone so far as to say AIDS is good for the world. The world with AIDS will make a better ecosystem -- it will be skinnier for sure. Many innocent victims (consumers) will likely be infected by the AIDS. It is a potential outbreak, but the kind doctors (xda-developers) can do nothing to help, they are being denied the essential tools to perform their duties. So the whole healing process will have to be left to shamans or witches with divine powers (certain developers with access to native herbal medicines called c++); and we all have to live in the dark age ... wait a minute, I am seeing all these from a distant droid land; phew! I am saved by an open source robot , as the welfare of our droid land seems to be progressing toward the positive territory, I really feel sorry for those who are still in the doom land; with supreme leaders getting more and more paranoids. I hope some one sane enough will stop the supreme leaders if they ever command all their followers to commit mass suicide; such as by destroying the only platform they are all still standing on... an old but useful platform we all love; where everything is colorful and free, the one where the doctors are provided tools to cure any weakness or illness.
The end result:
Only the very strong will survive!
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
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Click to collapse
I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
Shasarak said:
I think I speak for nearly everyone when I say: what in God's name are you talking about?
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I am talking about HTC, sleeping with MS and then Google.
Now it got aids in form of Apple lawsuit and probably neglect from MS for the new WP7.
You're all acting as if HTC didn't know this was coming. Just because Microsoft kept every single detail about WP7 secret from the public doesn't mean they kept it secret from their hardware partners. HTC has known what was coming for months, if not years.
chiks19018 said:
You get aids when you sleep with too many girlfriends and their mom too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if you use a condom.
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
Exactly what I was thinking about... and I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
I'm sure their relationship is great and HTC has some wonderful WP7S phones in the works. I'm sure HTC knew details about WP7 phones long before we did. And they start designing them long before we are aware of them.
HTC and MS will be just fine.
No
1. They're preventing everybody. TouchWiz, Panels, all that. Consistency. HTC had just been the most drastic coverup that everybody latched onto and used to mock Microsoft.
2. HD2 is a different animal. HD2 will be an old old phone at the end of the year. Why would anybody expect official support? More to the point, do you really believe that HTC would prefer to send you free OS upgrades rather than have you buy a new HD3?
3. Huh?
4. Of course they do. Diversified strategy makes sense and they have the scale for it. Microsoft has multiple hardware makers and HTC has multiple software makers
5. Those guys were aching to get their machines in the limelight for once.. it's always about HTC. Last year they showed off 6.5 on a Diamond2 and TouchPro2. XDA readers are so attached to HTC the simple existence of 3 non-HTC phones bothers them
6. Context, context. It's not like they said "Yeah Apple, kick HTC's ass!"
I get the feeling HTC is ready to sell Windows phones like hotcakes again
THE GRIZZ said:
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ZaxXx said:
I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
What's with this whole imaginary HTC vs MS battle? Has there been some official "we are fighting" press release from either of them?
HTC is a hardware manufacturer which makes hardware for various platforms. MS is a software manufacturer that makes software for various platforms (they even have an iPhone app or two). These companies are fully aware what's happening years before the public is.
HTC makes money selling you NEW hardware (HD3)...not software updates to old hardware (HD2 this December). I'm sure HTC is hard at work on 2nd generation WP7 devices and is preparing to release is 1st generation of WP7 devices. There's nothing to fuss about, it's business as usual.
The money saved in the "free" Android OS is probably spent on development. This development cost is built into MS'es fee, so it's all a balance. The "free" thing is a misnomer. Somewhere in the development process Android has a cost.
HTC is fully free to put Sense in Android devices, let's see how Android Sense stacks up against WP7 next year The 3rd party UI shell game was a symptom of failure on MS'es part. They're now correcting this shortcoming of WM with Metro.
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
THE GRIZZ said:
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WinMo failed marketwise...face it. It's so-called advantages were also it's flaws.
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
Yeah, and also TMo HD2 has this Blockbuster app, right? That's a reason to have more storage already.
vangrieg said:
Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good points Sir. Good thing Ballmer is no Jobs. We'll see how hard HTC comes with WP7
WhyBe said:
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
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Click to collapse
I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
Shasarak said:
I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this, or the specifications for WP7 drastically changed during the last couple months. but what do WE know????? nothing!
I still think HD2 is a GREAT device for WM 6.5
It will suck with WP7 so why do you guys even think about it?
I think that HTC will switch definitely to Android/Maemo and BrewOS platforms after this.
Microsoft hasn't been loyal with HTC and neither with their customers: this non-upgradeability thing sucks and remember that if Microsoft is still selling Windows Mobile is only because of HTC that has developed an entirely new UI (Sense, HTCMessaging, HTCSettings, Connection Manager, CommManager etc.) that has given new life to Windows Mobile, making other OEMs such as LG, Toshiba etc. to develop their own UIs for selling Windows Mobile and literally saving the Microsoft's handheld OSes market.
And it's clear that the HTC HD2 has been assembled on the mainline of Windows Mobile 7, because WM6.5(.5) lacks of native MultiTouch features and other hardware that is in our HD2 and that only WM7 and Android can use.
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
Microsoft has been a really good company when Bill Gates was managing all.
Steve Ballmer has done a good job in the PC OSes market (remember that Windows7 was planned by Gates, not by Ballmer and yes, of course, it even depends on the Windows Team, but think on it), but now, I have to say, Ballmer is literally "shutting down" the Microsoft supremacy on all.
Good luck with your future Linux devices!
kholk said:
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Symbian?
I like where it's heading... I'm getting an Android now, but I hope Symbian will get the developer support it deserves, cause the OS itself is great: youtube.com/watch?v=qapiWqJcAAE
Hello all.
I am going to replace my X1 to a newer and faster phone.
I decided to remain with WM, even if I briefly considered switching to Android or iPhone.
The first time I saw the upcoming HD7 specs I felt really disappointed, especially for the non-removable ram and the almost-obsolete CPU being used.
Now, considering that running WM7 on HD2 should be quite feasible (I don't really need WM7 anyway), I don't see any good reason why I should get an HD7. HD2 is also currently becoming cheaper in the last few weeks.
Besides audio surround, that I don't need, what's a real plus of HD7 compared to HD2 ?
Thanks
S
sandrinopi said:
Hello all.
I am going to replace my X1 to a newer and faster phone.
I decided to remain with WM, even if I briefly considered switching to Android or iPhone.
The first time I saw the upcoming HD7 specs I felt really disappointed, especially for the non-removable ram and the almost-obsolete CPU being used.
Now, considering that running WM7 on HD2 should be quite feasible (I don't really need WM7 anyway), I don't see any good reason why I should get an HD7. HD2 is also currently becoming cheaper in the last few weeks.
Besides audio surround, that I don't need, what's a real plus of HD7 compared to HD2 ?
Thanks
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL , the kickstand .
Why would u even consider an HD2... To tinker? Lol. That phone is a dead end if you prioritize support and productivity (yes, I have one).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
sandrinopi said:
what's a real plus of HD7 compared to HD2 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Wake up man, HD2 is dead i.e., Windows Mobile 6.x is dead, you will not see anymore new app for it (may be some). And within 2 years it will be completely dead.
Seriously you want to spend money on an almost dead phone?
As you said you wanna stay with WM that is Windows
No need to think just go for Windows Phone 7 - HD7!
Android is doing grate on hd2, meego and win phone 7 are probably on their way... so hd2 is a grate phone still... almost why would you spend much money on a worse looking phone with same specs?
So yeah... i just bought my hd2 via ebay ... and I'm lucky!
But winmo 6.5 sucks balls
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
You may all be right guys, but considering the hardwares I simply feel that an HD2 running WM7 is simply an HD7 that has a price 20% lower.
Again, an HD2 running WM7, not running WM6.x.
Where do I go wrong ?
The problem is if we indeed get WP7 running on the HD2, I doubt it would be as fast as on the HD7. And there might even be (unseen for now) problems (kinda like how Android is. Great, but far from perfect).
If you want to stick with Windows, I would suggest waiting to see how WP7 turns out on the HD2 before buying.
I am currently in same situation. I need a new phone but can’t decide which OS to choose from.
WM6.5X is aged OS and not much new 3rd party application are made currently for it. However MS still releasing new builds. Seen and using builds like the # 24635 or higher the speed and stability has improved significantly.
WM7 is new seams fast and stable, but completely New OS many of the Basic futures missing compare to WM6.5. For my own opinion the UI is just too simple. It reminds me to Internet page that made just with basic CSS. The biggest disappointment that I have with WM7 is the missing Sync functionality with my MS outlook and Not able to Sync certain MS office files from my Desktop. Furthermore AGAIN the UI, even though you have 3.8” screen but mostly 2/3 is used all other areas is just simple Big Fonts and empty area????
Yes I trust MS will further improve and implement things which are not yet there but definitely they will need TIME. Even with such company and with such resources they can’t do it all at least before 1-2 years’ time.
Android OS and Seen the new upcoming device HTC Desire HD seems the next choice for me after WM6.5.X! HTC DHD has very similar specs like the HTC HD2. However I still struggling with Android because of Not able directly Sync with outlook (there are some 3rd party application though) but mostly because I have never used one for few days to see hands on the limitations.
However having all those thoughts I still considering highly to getting the HD2. Because It still has :
-One of best hardware spec after 1 year
- it has still the best OS that can sync with desktop and MS Outlook and make fully use of Calendar, TASK, NOTES, Contacts, Categories
- There are still tons of old but still good application’s which do the job
- the Price of the HD2 is at least 30-50% cheaper than others.
Be frank if I can get the HTC desire HD with a good price and Android has not much limitation with Sync with desktop then I might consider to give up on HD2 and WM6.X or else I am thinking to get HD2 and see How the WM7 looks alike in 1-2 years’ time
domenukk said:
Android is doing grate on hd2, meego and win phone 7 are probably on their way... so hd2 is a grate phone still... almost why would you spend much money on a worse looking phone with same specs?
So yeah... i just bought my hd2 via ebay ... and I'm lucky!
But winmo 6.5 sucks balls
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tinkering...
Like I said.
Some people just love the neverending wait for workable (and often bugg as hell) ROMs. The rest of us just want great devices that work.
My expeeiences with the HD2 tells me that it is not that device.
Why do you think its price is dropping like a brick despite it having better specs than over half of the "high end" android phones on the market?
That phome sucks, and your chances of havimg to replace it multiple times after you buy it is much higher than average. They have issues with overheating/reboots requiring the main board to be replaced. WM6.5 is crap - I don't care how well it Syncs to a computer.
No HD video recording - the still camera is also terrible. hTC Sense does very little to save this pjome with the types of deep modifications they've made. 80% of WinMo apps are made for Stylus use and the browsers suck. If you go to Opera 10 u wont have pinch and the screen scrolls oddly.
You can sit here and give all excuses you want, but that's jusy the way it is. Dual booting Andtoid is not viable for the majority of users, and who cares about Meego (rhetorical)?
You're better off gettimg a good phone and experimenting with OS-01 in an emulator on a PC IMO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Bulldog said:
I am currently in same situation. I need a new phone but can’t decide which OS to choose from.
WM6.5X is aged OS and not much new 3rd party application are made currently for it. However MS still releasing new builds. Seen and using builds like the # 24635 or higher the speed and stability has improved significantly.
WM7 is new seams fast and stable, but completely New OS many of the Basic futures missing compare to WM6.5. For my own opinion the UI is just too simple. It reminds me to Internet page that made just with basic CSS. The biggest disappointment that I have with WM7 is the missing Sync functionality with my MS outlook and Not able to Sync certain MS office files from my Desktop. Furthermore AGAIN the UI, even though you have 3.8” screen but mostly 2/3 is used all other areas is just simple Big Fonts and empty area????
Yes I trust MS will further improve and implement things which are not yet there but definitely they will need TIME. Even with such company and with such resources they can’t do it all at least before 1-2 years’ time.
Android OS and Seen the new upcoming device HTC Desire HD seems the next choice for me after WM6.5.X! HTC DHD has very similar specs like the HTC HD2. However I still struggling with Android because of Not able directly Sync with outlook (there are some 3rd party application though) but mostly because I have never used one for few days to see hands on the limitations.
However having all those thoughts I still considering highly to getting the HD2. Because It still has :
-One of best hardware spec after 1 year
- it has still the best OS that can sync with desktop and MS Outlook and make fully use of Calendar, TASK, NOTES, Contacts, Categories
- There are still tons of old but still good application’s which do the job
- the Price of the HD2 is at least 30-50% cheaper than others.
Be frank if I can get the HTC desire HD with a good price and Android has not much limitation with Sync with desktop then I might consider to give up on HD2 and WM6.X or else I am thinking to get HD2 and see How the WM7 looks alike in 1-2 years’ time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even at release WP7 will offer better desktop synchronization than Android. I wonder if you people ever do research on your own, or just expect us to regurgitate everything to you on a forum...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Even at release WP7 will offer better desktop synchronization than Android. I wonder if you people ever do research on your own, or just expect us to regurgitate everything to you on a forum...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never said Android has better Sync then WM7!!!!. Be Frank I really don’t know how good or bad android is with desktop sync. Or else I would have come to end of my decision.
But be frank I do have expected that MS the should have at the beginning better integration of MS office and desktop sync then they going to have now. I mean they are the maker of MS office, Windows desktop etc. I wonder how one will transfer Office documents, PDF files etc. to the device and able to work with those documents without having a file explorer on the device. Where is the SD card that I can use as Mass Storage and transfer files from one computer to another?
it is a joke that I have Windows desktop which has all my information on it then I have my windows phone just beside of it But I can’t Sync calendar, contact, Notes, Task, Documents without going through a server. well I can understand that MS trying to push the sales of exchange , SharePoint servers, usage of Live/Hotmail’s as they wanted make money with sales of their other software’s or advertisements in Hotmail/bings’s. But as a user which paying about 700-800USD for device I wanted to have the choice to been my own master.
All the hardware problem you have mentioned are not the issue of the OS but rather it is the problem of HTC which also going to manufacture some of the WM7 devises. HTC is pushing out so many different devices and trying of course making much more money that they can. Naturally the quality
Coming back to Wm6.5! I have/had a HTC HD which is obviously hardware wise much less then HD2 but with cooking my own ROM the device and also the OS has performed greatly.
I could have few application open running at the background and switch between them as I like but still for whole week I didn’t need to reset ones. Yes I agree that so many cooked ROMS are out there which have so many crap in it. Furthermore so many guys loading so many different application I wonder how many guys really need some of those regular base.
Well it become again long, at the end everyone is free to choose what one things is right
And google isn't pushimg the use of gmail and google search with android. You're startimg to soumd fanatical, so I won't respond anymore.
And lol @ worrying about Synching media or documents. WP7 will do all that flawlessly via Zune and SkyDrive/Office Web Apps.
Sure, you can multitask on HD2, but ur battery will run out faster than a hooker runs out of condoms. Have fun with that.
Multitasking on smartphones is overrated, anyways. Just something fanbois talk about when an OS they won't use anyways doesn't have it (usually before they use that OS and know absolutely nothing about it, to boot).
Just the lack of decent 3rd party apps will be enough to kill off WM6.5, and of course you'll still be waiting for God knows who to fix the bugs.
I'm not arguing about a phone I own with someone who has never used it... Seriously.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I'd go with either the HD7 or Desire/HD personally. Buying a HD2 is going to leave you with a choice between poor hacked versions of modern OS's or an abandoned OS with diminishing support.
The hacks are great for existing owners but they aren't really a reason to buy one. Too buggy/unstable.
My opinion: for now - get HD2 definitely.
WP 7 has many annoying limitations
which will effectively hold back the platform for over half a year.
And don't listen to idiots saying "WM 6.5 is dead".
I mean - what dead?
Now the platform has thousands of apps,
it will take some time for WP 7 to reach this level.
Devices are working, not disappearing or exploding because of WP7.
WP7 will be a treat when Microsoft will stop it's idiotic policy
and let users use their devices.
Wait for some time for WP7.
Can you wait til Christmas? If so, then do! (or, at least, that's what I'm doing and I already have a HD2)
You'll get to see whether WP7 has been ported to the HD2 and, if it has, how it is running.
You'll also get some information about WP7 and whether, or not, it is going down well. That might help influence your decision. Equally, you'll get to see how people are reacting to the HD7.
Oh, and the big plus, I imagine that the HD2 will have dramatically dropped in price and, you never know, the HD7 might have dropped a little, or even some newer phones will have come out...
Casey
WM6.5 is dead. Most of the better app devs have either moved to other platforms, or moving to WP7.
The apps exist, but most of them aren't that good, are badly maintained (if at all), or are clunky as hell (side product of the underlying platform).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
HD2 is so great. It can run WM6.5 and Android smoothly. I think it will become the first one can run 3 OSs. You can now switch btw WM, Android easily. HD2 is a great WM6.5 phone, a good Desire, Nexus, Desire HD, Desire Z. HD2 is also a Evo one without 4G funtion (3G, wifi, hotspot are all working).
.........................................
HTC HD2 Leo
Rom: Dutty's N4s V3
Radio: 2.15.50
Android Build: Mdeejay FroYo HD, Z, Lex, EvoRevoluton...
Having 2 OS in your device is a huge advantage, belive me, I love having WM 6.5.x and Android Froyo in my Device... HD2 is my best choice
Also it has the requirments for Windows Phone7, so there is a good chance to have it in your HD2 ( there will be some bugs at the biganing )
BELMOT
N8ter, is it possible that you don't like WinMo? lol
I have an HD2 and love it, but would try to wait like others have said to see about WP7. You never want to get stuff when it first comes out b/c of HW/SW issues.
I won't get HD2 due to:
This phone is old. (I know the spec similar / same with HD7 but it feel like getting old device).
Official support till WM 6.5.x
WM 6.5.x is dead product soon.
Soon no more release of WM 6.5.x apps.
BAD quality LCD.
I get HD7 because:
Design better than HD2.
New Phone.
Official support WP7.
No worried on apps in coming future.
Better S-LCD screen.
New experience, what for take HD2 since you own X1 before, it is kind of bored owning same things.
** Kindly take notes, HD7 not support surround sound, only HD7 surround edition support surround sound.
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Not happening anytime soon.
1. No unlock yet
2. Brand new coding that has to be deciphered
3. Most people buying this phone don't want android
Buy a bloody android phone if you want android!!!!
Good luck getting the device drivers.from MS.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
What's the point? Aren't WP7 phones and Android phones based on the same hardware ?
android on sd is never going to happen .
and nand maybe when there are phones with way better hardware ( what is the point to port android to a phone with same hardware as hd2)
personally I hope android is never coming to a wp7 phone .
Are you kidding me? if you want android go buy an android phone...... thats like, buying an iphone and hoping someone ports WP7 to it. go buy an android phone.....seriously.....
For information ...
Is in the correct section as this is a question about Android on a device WP7
ShadowLegion said:
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any reason for Android on a WP7 device. That would be like a downgrade.
I think it would be great for apps that have not been released. I would be lost w/o out logmein. There are prob some people out there like me that would love to run wm7 and jump to the android os form time to time to do things like that.
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Quality is perception and experience, not fact.
They are not the same other than they can use the same hardware. They should not be combined. Port the program, not the os.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I work for a company developing/testing s/w for all mobile devices. I have access to all OS's and I can honestly say that IMO Windows Phone has the nicest user experience and all its lacking are features. Its only been out a week or two so give it time for the bugs to be fixed, features added and the App store to mature and it will be a cracking OS.
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
mmelo76 said:
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
MartyLK said:
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
markgamber said:
Thank you
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
MartyLK said:
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
markgamber said:
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at WP7 market now, there is even a thread here started - it is already filled with junk.
Anyway, since you are a developer reach out to MS and suggest what you would like to see in the market, and what you would like them to offer to the users.
Happy anniversary, btw.
ohgood said:
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing...from my perspective...I like closed systems. Simple as that. But WP7 is a closed system with high-end quality. I love the iPhone and will grow even fonder of WP7 as it matures, providing MS stays with a closed system and maintains the emphasis on quality over quantity.
I've had my fill of Android and all it offers. I just...erm...it's...boring, to me. It gives me the feel of a used up hooker. It's been in every bed known to humanity.