Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
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This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.
apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
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but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
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wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
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I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------
gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
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its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.
ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
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Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
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ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.
Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
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Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
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You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
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Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.
sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
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Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.
Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
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proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.
The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.
Related
found this interesting because of the on going flop thread...
http://wmpoweruser.com/official-1-5...ped-faster-than-original-iphone-a-good-start/
well he's saying that the manufacturers sold 1.5 million to the carriers, not actual people, so if people don't buy the phone it will just sit on the shelves.
They need people to go to the stores and buy these phones!
but this is great news for WP7, and I do think they have a good product, let's hope they force google to ramp up their product as well.
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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but I think that that will change real fast
vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?
I think Google and Apple are taking notice, MS is nothing to ignore, look what they did to apple in the computer OS world, now they're doing it again.
Take Apple's business model and UI and kang it to run more efficiently and universally, that's what they did with their computer OS and it looks like that's what they're doing with WP7.
Not to mention most stores have very low stock so most of the 1.5 million phones are most likely in the hands of consumers..
lekki said:
How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?
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Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
Just a little piece of what's coming next year:
IPhone 5
IOS5
Nexus 2(not s)
Ipad 2
EVO 2
HTC Knight(maybe the same as EVO 2)
honeycomb
Maybe even cdma iPhone
Galaxy S2
That's just a small part of the competition. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.
vetvito said:
Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
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There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.
froesei said:
There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.
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You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.
WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.
froesei said:
It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.
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That's another good point. I didn't even look at it from that point of view.
However IOS has become too blah, and IOS 5 or maybe 6 will address this. You can't beat Apple by following the same road.
What's innovative in WP7? When they allow the unreal engine, things will be more interesting.
orangekid said:
WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.
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That's highly opinionated. However your other points are correct. The Pre2 was a nail in the coffin.
vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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doesn't rim own like 24% of the smartphone market?
No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw
vetvito said:
No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw
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That's just one quarter's worth of numbers. RIM still has the most smartphones in use in the US right now.
RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.
What you're missing is that the vast majority of the 1.5 million units _sold_ by manufacturers are actually also sold to end-users - as we all know a lot of stockists worldwide are on backorder at the moment.
I personally know several developers (myself being one) that did not get their hands on an actual device until after the six week mark due to low stock locally - this from people across three continents.
Worth mentioning is also that two weeks out of those six there was hardly any stock at all anywhere as manufacturers only part-delivered what was initially ordered from the carriers in Europe and Australia. It was only just before the US launch that they were able to even start meeting demand.
Looking at the raw figures though, compared to the iOS and Android launches, I would say these sales are on par. Of course that's not an entirely fair comparison as more people, overall, are buying smartphones today than they did back then but still.
vetvito said:
RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.
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I was about to get on you... Its a pretty well known fact that RIM holds the majority stake in the smartphone market. Been that way for awhile now. Don't know how much longer that will be but if WP7 got to that level I think itd be considered a great success.
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
z33dev33l said:
We all know Microsoft is on a roll to make patent licensing agreements with Android OEMs. Since last week, Microsoft have announced 4 such deals without disclosing the amount of royalty involved. Today Reuters that Microsoft is demanding about $15 per Android device from Samsung, one of the largest android OEM in the world. Microsoft is also ready to lower the royalty amount if Samsung agrees with some deeper alliance related to Windows Phone smartphone making. Microsoft signed similar deal with HTC last year, Will Samsung also join the fray soon? I hope Samsung agrees with Microsoft on the later deal of less royalty amount for Android devices and more Windows Phone smartphones. Also analysts predict Samsung to ship about 19 million smartphones this quarter, if the deal is done Microsoft will get about $1 Billion IP licensing revenue from Samsung alone in a year...
Now that is a beautiful puzzle, they've already released the most user friendly and in my opinion best is on the market and now they're putting a squeeze on the big name android OEMs to eliminate some of the competition. I love this, now just throw in some good marketing and well have the trifecta of a perfect operating system.
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Well, you know what they say...fruit is better for us than pastries/dairy. (Mango vs. Ice Cream Sandwich/Eclair)
good for them, I don't think it's good for us
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
*wipes tear* i love you Microsoft! always have done and will be loyal forever
The only group to blame for this is Google, releasing something that completely infringes on a bunch of other peoples patents. While it may be a douchey move to do this to the very manufactures you're partnered with, I can't blame MS.
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
FiyaFleye said:
Except, after seeing your responses on here for months now... You would have zero problems with this if Google was doing it, right?
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You are probably right
I'm kinda put off by some of those patents . I mean really .. you can patent that ?
Although they do own the patents so "Pay up Sucka's ."
This will not be good for user's in the end either way .
My .02
ohgood said:
I can't believe a thread on xda of all places supporting a broken patent system, extortion, profiterring instead of innovation. wow.
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But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
nicksti said:
But be logical now instead of loyal. Is it fair for someone to release a product using a part of something that you own and you receive nothing for it?
How would you feel if you developed an app and I took a portion of that and created my own app and made millions?
I am not saying the patent system is perfect; it is far from. But people need to innovate and license, not steal and pass off. And we are not even sure what this patent infringement is, but players are settling quickly. This suggests to me that it may be open and shut wrong-doing on Google's part.
But the thread is a little sensational. If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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That's my sentiments and what I've been about all along. Yet when I say Apple has the rights to receive compensation on their infringed patents, I'm an Apple fanboy. Then when I side with MS's side of the patent infringement, I'm a MS fanboy. The only time I'm not harassed badly for seeming like a fanboy is when I say something favorable about Google. If I say something favorable about any other company...even if the favored words are intermixed with multiple companies, I'm a fanboy. The friggin rationality of the web is beyond mind twisting. People will stomp and storm over the least little thing.
nicksti said:
If MS's intention was to cripple they would be doing more than seeking royalties
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I agree with this. MS definitely has the money to go after Google itself if they wanted to, but going after OEM's could be a way to secure a footing for WP7 as it's up to them to push WP7. If OEM's don't support WP7, it's screwed. Also, going after Google would conflict with MS & it's anti-monopoly issues.
Kinda old. Its been a known fact that Microsoft makes more money from Android than WP7.
Sad, sick, but true. The patent system is ridiculous.
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
The patent system is there to protect people from having their stuff stolen. How'd you like it if someone broke into your house & stole everything? Ok, not exactly the same thing. Or how about, you developer some new software or Ui or something & some big company like MS/Apple/Google steals it & makes millions or even billions off it? It's funny how when it's the big corperations, it's "sad/sick/etc," but if it were some small company or a single person, it's ok.
Double Standards just aren't cool. I may not like big corporations & their greed, but guest what, they have rights too.
You do realize that patent licensing happens everywhere to protect the developer of a technology. Like DVD/Blu Ray manufacturers paying royalties to the developers of that technology. The "Blu-ray Disc Association" (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG (Lucky GoldStar) Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung) created the Blu Ray format, so everyone else making Blu Ray players/burners must pay a royalty. How would you like it if you were the developer of Blu Ray & seeing all these companies making money on your technology while you're broke.
NOTE: In all of MS's 36 years, this is only the 7th time they actually acted on their patents.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
Google should have done their homework tbh, handing over these issues to the hardware manufacturers is pretty weak.
Not that I'm agreeing with these patents, some of them are very vaguely defined.
You guys really don't know how vague some of the patents are. Hell I can pick any software and find some copied code. Do some deeper investigation yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small a company is, doesn't matter to me if its Google, Apple, or some unknown Guy down the street.
The patent system needs a major over haul. Make a new OS or program and make millions, and I guarantee you that you will be slapped with patent infringement. Its sick.
truffle1234 said:
I agree with you.....
everyone have the right to collect $$$$ for their patents, as they have spent time money and efforts, and no one is allowed to just take and use someone else's work...
Google will have more trouble coming their way when Nortel patents will change hands...
Oracle is also going to collect money from Google for some stuff they used in android, estimated $2 billion or so....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know oracle had to drop more than 90% of their case.
It isn't vague. When you patent something, you have to be thorough about how it all works. These "news" articles just give the "Title" to the patent. The full patent has this huge legal description of what exactly is patented. I know this because as a kid I was going through the patent process, till my lawyer found out what I was trying to patent already existed. BTW, as for try to make an OS. Well the problem is all OS's are basically the same, very similar UI's save (WP7). they all have some form of taskbar/start menu/window based applications. The whole point why Windows is called Windows. The point of inovation is to make something new, not copy what's there & try to make it different. That's basically borderline plagerism, granted that's to do with writing, but it's the same thing.
See this;
1) No. 6,909,910 from 2005 for "managing changes to a contact database."
2) No. 7,644,376, issued in 2010 to cover an API that lets mobile apps learn about state changes in the device.
3) No. 5,664,133 from 1997 covering "context sensitive menu system/menu behavior," known more generally as a graphical user interface that lets users "quickly and easily select/execute the desired computer resource."
4) No. 6,578,054 from 2003 covering online and offline transmission of data through methods that "eliminate data transmission and allow multiple copies of data to be synchronized via incremental changes."
5) No. 6,370,566 from 2002, with the self-explanatory title, "Generating Meeting Requests and Group Scheduling From a Mobile Device."
All of that us understandable but the patent system us royally ****ed up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/technology/27patent.html
http://www.macgasm.net/2009/12/30/the-patent-system-is-broken-and-nokia-vs-apple-continues/
There are patents that defy the laws of phsyics, patents that are beyond belief. ****s stupid. Its actually hurting innovation from the little guys.
Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.
Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...
@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.
N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.
FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.
Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:
vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.
Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.
Before I give my opinion, I must admit that my opinions may not hold true legally. I know little more than DMV laws. Nor am I a tech expert, insider or historian. I will be wrong on some facts, but I believe that my overall analysis will stand true.
Apple isn't really hitting Google as hard as some may think.
Google and apple are 2 forces that have an inverse success relationship. This we all know. They compete over the same market. This was from day 1, heck, even before then (depending on how you judge when day 1 was).
This is a fact that hasn't gone unseen to them both. They choose 2 tactics to deal with that issue. Apple chose to gain fame and sales through marketing, and got patents on all that's under the sun. A tactic that may look ugly, but money doesn't care.
Google, on the other hand, doesn't look perfect either. They gave ALL the freedom to developers, and opened the platform up. This protects them from apple, to a degree, because they aren't accountable for the actions of others. This gave their platform an advantage over the legal system and the rights of others.
I dislike apple, and like google, but that's not worth a thing. Google's tactics are healthier towards the market. Apple kills development... Outside apple itself.
The thing is, apple can continue to harm the android platform, and never kill it, ever. This is because android is open, and devs and manufacturers will always adjust.
Google, on the other hand, only needs one hit on ios, One injunction, and apple is dead in the water. Apple has, in many senses, only one device (the iphone and ipad are not that different). If they can stop the iphone OR the ipad, they don't need to settle, they can keep devices off the market for weeks, months or even permanently (if it's a hardware issue).
Keep in mind that most apple devices are produced BEFORE THE FIRST PIECE IS SOLD. So once google stops a device, apple's sales stop for a year (or so). apple can throw all what it made in the sea, or ship them overseas.
Also keep in mind, that most development and it's financial backing (as in app sales), is within US borders. This means IOS will effectively die.
BUT
What's hard to believe, is that both parties needed the existence of each other. In this case, each of them needed a competitor (though they each wanted the bigger piece of the pie). Economics says that competition creates demand, and in some cases vice versa. Ex: look at Pepsi and coke. They gained by competing, through keeping the other soda manufacturers out. The war between these two tech giants helped them sell devices.
Part of the reason that the current situation got so ugly, is that the market has a new competitor, a crappy one too (apple and Google's wet dream). Microsoft has taken apple's closed stance. This allows for the existence of google, not apple, as it is a more direct competition with the latter. Microsoft also gains if it remains in the market with Android, even as a weaker party, because it gets so much money off most android manufacturers (through licensing settlements) .
This whole situation is a move to drive apple out of the market. Apple's is clawing everyone cause it knows that it's being choked. Apple will not hold back any card that will keep it alive, even suing a search engine for searching for stuff.
THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING.
Am I right?
------------------------------------
Sent from my banned Galaxy Nexus
If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.
It's all been dramatized to elicit blog clicks. Nothing will be the end or death or ruin of either of them, they'll just posture enough and setup a convincing enough legal threat by building precedent with these little cases until they're forced into some sort of cross licensing deal. It's business, not politics, or religion. Don't believe the hype.
Well patent for notification center will be an exact stop point for Apple because they have only few devices that uses same OS. It's not the same as Android where one condition applies to a minority of devices.
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.
Djabolic said:
Apple is destined to die anyway. Their biggest innovation in the last few years was providing more density to their devices as I've said in another thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the core of apple. Misleading when they use the full shiny apple when in reality it should be a picture of a rotten core.
butter and jelly please...
Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!
I have yet to understand why Google hasn't sued apple back. For example, one of apples newest features is from android. The feature in which when you receive a call you can reply back with a text stating "i am driving" for instance. Meanwhile, the apple notification Center was biggest steal ever. Finally, they sued amazon for calling their store the App store. App store is just to generic they honestly can't have a patent on that....
It is as if i sued a grocery store because i have a patent on the word grocery store so they can't call themselves grocery store.
Samsung Galaxy s2 Nuclear Rocket - Embryo 3.2 [UCLE2 BASE]
iPhone 4S - Gave it away, not cool enough
iPhone 3GS - Went for a Swim
Dog - Custom Rom [Golden Retriever] [BEAR2 BASE]
LuffyPSP said:
Google just being quite. thats all. They wanted all the crApple and its user just use their Google product only. If only they dont have that, Apple would be long gone. Most technology used in Apple, are from Google(i think so...). and if Samsung, HTC and others join forces and stating each of their patent used by Apple, its done. the thing is, other companies actually wanted a healthy competition, which is totally different than how Apple see it, cuz they are out of ideas and forgot how to innovate!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the idea of joining forces may seem childish to some, but a quick look at the Rockstar Consortium should change their minds. The problem with that idea is that apple is not their #1 competitor, other android manufacturers are. Google is the only party that can lead a case against apple (on software at least), and Google has been holding back since the start.
My guess is that, that's about to change
1cewolf said:
Apple's not going anywhere. Part of their genius is convincing their idiot users that the Apple logo is all the innovation they need to look for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.
Djabolic said:
I still have some hope left in me about the next generations will be smarter than the current zombie-like society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bet she comes back to the light.
butter and jelly please...
Djabolic said:
If Google gets that patent for the notification center then apple will be surely in the cesspool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
Geo411m said:
I don't. A co-worker of mine has a college aged daughter who went to an orientation where they were doing some kind of ice breaker game. Anyway, the student gathered around in a circle and they would ask these student something and depending on the answer they would step in the circle. So they asked "whoever didn't have an iPhone step in the circle" and she was the only one to step inside. She felt so bad she's going to buy an iPhone just to be like everyone else. Peer pressure at it's finest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
BrianDigital said:
Yeah two of my gf's ladies friends only bought iPhones because "everyone has one" I lol'ed and said well more people have android. Then the most painful thing I have done with a phone and that's including rooting. I had to set a mp3 as ringtone for one of her friends iphone.....dear god I didn't think I was going to be able to do it
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes adding media outside of iTunes sucks. And god forbid you have to use a different computer than the one the iPhone was originally synced on.
i agree with many points. but in my opinion google isn´t so much interested in producing and selling mobile phones. it´s more to keep people related to google itself. the search, email, chat, google+ etc... and i think there´s much more. the accounts and usage of them are important for google itself. the hardware developers samsung htc etc... they sell phones to make money with hardware, google with android and google products. i think android would be enough for supply and demand, because that´s the competition of the hardware-manufacturers (samsung, htc, etc...). i think the mainreasons is the market to keep android alive. as u see with nexus7, google isn´t interested in selling hardware, just to get their software sold. 200$ isn´t much for the hardware. google wants to sell the hardware a) to get as many people to google b) to ace apple out of the market. google makes money with selling software over their market. and with the new market, tv, movies and more. on the other hand, if more people get android, less will stay with apple.
may be, google will become monopolist on the market. dunno, dislike apple and me as customer, i profit from google products. as in op, the policy is more friendly of google than apple.
(sry for may bad english in some cases )
Anthonok said:
At this rate apple will file for it and get it
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.
adrynalyne said:
One would hope our patent system isn't so broken that Apple could file now and get it before Google who filed for it years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
Anthonok said:
Money goes a long way.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.
adrynalyne said:
That may be, but that sort of blatant corruption would be very visible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They just got the patent for water damage detection and the shape of the macbook air... aka just a thin "wedge" shape... and something extremely similar to Google glass.
Sent from my JellyBelly Gnex
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/28/tech/innovation/google-apple-patents/
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.
Overstew said:
They won a big one, so it's going to continue. There's not much discussion left other than Apple is abusing the Patent system.
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I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that but they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it became their patent.
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that haven't had any innovations though)
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1
Samsung just sold them $7B in CPU's. They wanted a quick way to get some money back and carriers aren't going to be willing to subsidize the production of their devices anymore when they can make real money off Android devices (especially SAmsung.)
elephant007 said:
I agree with you on this one, they are taking advantage of the patenting system, here's the kicker though. They are applying for and securing patents and until the actual inventors or idea makers actually patent and secure patenting rights, Apple will continue to patent other peoples ideas and secure them as their own.
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This right here is a fine example of the Patent System and it's vulnerability. It shouldn't be allowed to be patented if the Technology already exists.
elephant007 said:
Not only is this abuse of patenting, it's also that juries are awarding them the win. Anyone is able to patent an idea, even if it's not their own, as long as there is not already a patent issued for that idea. Apple is taking the legal route and patenting ideas, not only that be they are awarded the patent. A patent is there for you to take action upon your patent being violated.
I look at it as if Apple is saying the only way they can compete is to put other companies at bay by suing them for their patent infringements. Patenting "rounded corners" is absurd, period. Apple wasn't the first company to come up with rounded corners, they are the first to patent the design though, so thus it because their patent.
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This is correct. Apple is losing Market share, and it's showing. They are choosing to claim that Samsung (and other manufacturers) are 100% ripping Apple off, which isn't necessarily the case. If I recall, Samsung didn't own most of the Market share until after the S2 (which wasn't a complete ripoff of Iphone). One can argue the software icons are alike, but Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products." This is absolutely ridiculous. Just the fact that they have patented the shape of the device makes my stomach twist. The thing about innovation (at least for most part) is taking someone's brilliant idea, and making it better. Look at how far the wheel's got.
elephant007 said:
I think there are some things that should be protected by patents, I think a lot of modifiers and developers should take the time to patent their designs and mods in order to protect their ideas and hard work. Think of the pull down notification bar, who do you think came up with that idea? Probably not the person who holds the patent on it! I say in order to have an open and free market there should be something that are un-patentable. One thing that shouldn't be patented, I saw on Shark Tank and Mark Cuban said it was the most ridiculous patent ever and that those kind of patents are what is crippling the free and open market, that patent was adding a hole in a pocket so that headphones can connect to a device and thus allowing the user to plug their headphones into a device without needing to thread it up and under the closing flap... what a load of crap!
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Apple is playing the victim in court but you're absolutely right, Apple saw the notification bar and implemented it because it's not patented. This, I would be fine with, but when they go and complain about someone else using their work for design then they go to court. It's all about who's got what in writing at this point.
elephant007 said:
Apple, if you're so innovative and so bleeding edge, do you really need to sue your competition into bankruptcy or even to the point where they have to pay royalties because you patented something that you didn't even come up with on your own? To me, Apple isn't so much a technology innovator as it is a technology stealer (not saying that you haven't had any innovations though)
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I love this part of your reply.
elephant007 said:
This whole suing thing frustrates me, yet they have the legal right to do so because they secured the patent on ideas that they got from someone else. I am not saying Apple didn't come up with something on their complete own, although it would be hard pressed to come up with those things... I mean come on, they couldn't even come up with their own company name, they stole that from The Beatles owned Apple Records... gimme a break!
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Well, hopefully with the Motorola/Google vs Apple lawsuits, things might change. "If you sue me and win, I'll sue you and win." It'll be a never ending circle until they agree upon some sort of agreement like Microsoft has with Apple.
elephant007 said:
Oh and let's not start on Intellectual Property either, patenting ideas without having any prototypes!
Okay I will now step down from my soapbox, thanks for allowing me to rant
for your reading pleasure http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ios-5-copied-android-2012-5?op=1
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I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this and it's great how similar it is to mine.
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
Check this one out
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
blackdragon79 said:
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleMobile.aspx?regionid=1&articleid=4121798
Apple just give up the IPHONE sucks deal with it.
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Lol. This is the result of Apple telling everyone that Samsung's products are basically Apples. They've implanted into people's minds that Samsung = Apple, but Samsung < Apple in terms of $$$. So People <3 Samsung > Apple.
This is going into a ridicoulus childrens feud, were you do me harm then I'll harm you yada yada bs...
If this continues we might see a similiar outcome as the one in South Korea, where BOTH Apple and Samsung are facing a limited time ban on their respective products.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875
A direct qoute from the judge proceeding the ruling
"There are lots of external design similarities between the iPhone and Galaxy S, such as rounded corners and large screens... but these similarities had been documented in previous products," a judge at the Seoul Central District Court was quoted as saying by the Reuters news agency.
"Given that it's very limited to make big design changes in touchscreen based mobile products in general... and the defendant [Samsung] differentiated its products with three buttons in the front and adopted different designs in camera and [on the] side, the two products have a different look,"
If only the CA jury had this insight and ruled the verdict in the same way, things would of come differently and had given Apple a wake up call and big slap in the face.
The Jury Blew it
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.
GPLLL said:
A self-proclaimed "expert" pretty much decided the case and the rest of the jury went along for the ride.
Groklaw has a nice little article on it.
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Doesn't that fall under conflict of interest and over rules the decision? Not sure how the court system works or anything, but in other cases this alone would go for an over rule and/or appeal.
Overstew said:
....Apple's point is that Samsung products are "Too similar" and "confuse customers into thinking they're buying Apple products...
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I have heard that this is what Apple is claiming, if I was an iPhone user that statement would speak volumes to me as to who Apple really views iPhone users... as idiots
I know not all iPhone users are pure idiots, Apple's statement sure makes their thoughts of their users known
Just so everyone knows I'm not bashing iPhone users, all phones have some users that are idiots too! HAHA
Please continue your discussion here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1865981
Thank you for your cooperation
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