Develop Bugs

Microsoft finally getting instore marketing right

Almost a year later Microsoft will be properly training sales reps on how to use & sell WP7.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/07/microsofts-to-finally-educate-retail-partners-on-windows-phone/
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They should just employ existing users as training won't be enough for many sales reps (e.g. that HTC rep interviewed about the Titan on Engadget).

...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....

hhmmm
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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Ads should be just like the iPhone/Windows 7 ads where actual features are demonstrated. Anything else won't get much attention.
ohgood said:
So, microsoft will turn around the salespeoples' opinion of wp7, and weed out the bad ones, and have good marketing in place by the christmas shopping season ?
I doubt it. Sounds like they've only acknowledged a problem so far. Look for real changes from the slow moving giant in january, when no one will care.
Kind of reminds me of those center isle people that spray me with perfume insttead of asking first. Ugh
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The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.

Peew971 said:
The problem is Mango not being out yet, so these sales reps won't be trained until the iPhone 5 and tons of new Android phones are out... at which point they won't care about their WP7 training. It's a loop of fail.
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...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....

FTC said:
...maybe Microsoft, the OEMs and the Providers team up to allow the sales staff some cash-incentives or sweepstake promotion to "convince" the sales reps to have a closer look at WP7....
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I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.

FTC said:
...it's a good start...but it' not far enough... Microsoft, the OEMs and the providers must release "catchy" ads which clearly show all the wonderfull things you can do with the device, how "hipp" you will be with your friends and familly and where you can buy it and what to ask for....
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The problem is the phone is supposed to save us from our phone.
Your idea works contrary to that. Apple markets to that crowd: people who are glued to their phones.
Microsoft's marketing basically states that they want you to buy a phone you don't have to be tethered to. A phone you shouldn't have to use all the time. A phone that lets you get on with REAL LIFE. Newsflash, for a ton of smartphone users (esp the younger generation) REAL LIFE involves being tethered to a phone... Microsoft's marketing failed to appeal that that huge demographic. Apple and Android Ads are going for broke, though... Microsoft Marketing for WP7 seems like it was tailored for 45+ business people, whilst pushing a social consumer-centric smartphone. It makes absolutely no sense...
It runs contrary to what you say. They should have just done it the Apple way.
The big mistake was releasing the OS early. They should have waited 6 more months and released it with half the Mango features baked in. That would have, IMO, attracted a lot more people.
Now, a lot of people have the thought of a half-baked OS that can do basic functions, and it will be hard to shake that.
Also, you cannot really change the Reps' minds. They will probably agree with the trainers in a training setting, but once the customer walks through the door they will push what they prefer to push anyways.
Microsoft's marketing has it wrong. You cannot market a phone to save us from our phones. People can get that by buying a feature phone that isn't pushing everything form every social network or chat service to their phone every minute of the day. Or a dumb phone, even. Smartphones are popular because people can do most things on them. They're popular precisely because their addictive due to how much you can do on it. The nature of a smartphone, IMO, guarantees that you will spend a large amount of time actually using it. To suggest otherwise, makes no sense.
When you market a smartphone that isn't THAT, you're telling people you want to sell them a boring device that won't allow them to get as much done (that may not be the case, but that's how many consumers will interpret it), and it will have the opposite effect.
I actually think a lot of that happened with the Microsoft Marketing.
They need to get front and center in stores like Best Buy. Have displays in Carriers stores - especially i.e. AT&T and/or Verizon (and maybe T-Mobile if they will allow them to compete that hard with their MyTouch and Sidekick series devices).
Interesting fun adds that tell people the phone is fun and they'll want to use it all the damn time, not the opposite, etc.
Really, where Mango is taking WP7 is a complete 180 from their marketing (integrated social networks, facebook/windows live all baked in, Bing functionality that lets you do virtually everything, etc.). I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
That being said, the commercial where the woman fell in the airport staring at her Blackberry was still funny as hell.

Avatar28 said:
I think they should offer them free phones. There will be at least some who would take them up on it and I'm sure they could write it off as a promotional expense anyways.
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They will just sell them on Craigslist. You can't extort support from sales reps. What are you talking about. Sales reps are not evangelists, and should not be treated as such (even tho they act as such in many cases, not in WP7's favor). That's clearly anti-competitive, as well. Carriers and competing platform OEMs alike would strongly object to that behavior. It can possibly get them in trouble.
A ridiculously large majority of sales reps are avid iOS/Android users, supporters, and advocates for lack of a better word.
I go into carrier stores all the time and I've had reps in T-Mobile stores especially flat out tell me the HD7 was crap and they would never recommend I get a Windows Phone. Yes, in those direct terms.
Others are so passive that when customers come in with negative pre-concieved notions about the platform and state misinformations in front of them, they make no effort to correct them - maybe they know no better themselves, though.
Ask them to walk you through an Android or iPhone, though, and they have no issues. They'll even tell you how to root your phone and recommend the best home screen replacements, among other things...
Maybe we should all go into carrier stores and record this happening and post it to YouTube, we can start a Twitter trend! Lol, just kidding...

@N8ter
...what you say in your 2 posts above is true... Although the basic concept of Microsoft's idea to "free" peoples from their "phone addiction" is a positive way of thinking, it is allmost impossible to re-educate peoples from bad habits. Social networks like Twitter, Facebook and SMS make people believe that they require immediate attention and reaction in order to be part of the game. It is very funny and sad at the same time to observe people getting totally nervous if they don't see any new messages on their phone for a couple of minutes... Maybe the governments should request to put warning stickers on the phone:Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health

FTC said:
Addiction to your phone can be dangerous for your mental health
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LMAO, yeah, I agree with what both of you said on this. The problem is most people don't like being told they're addicted to something even if it's a cell phone/social networking site/etc.

N8ter said:
I don't know why or how they failed so hard on the marketing front. It's like they were trying to convince people NOT to buy WP7 devices.
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It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.

...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"

FTC said:
...the main problem with the "Really" and "Me" ads are that they are not "selling"
a product. This is the big difference between the Apple and Microsoft strategies.
Apple has the product and the sales outlets. So for them it is easy to advertise their products.... Microsoft on the other hand has only an WP7 operating system and no specific "Windows Phone". Microsoft can only advertise the nice things their WP7 operation system can do, but this is just a system and not a touchable object. It's like going in a shop and asking for a computer or a TV-Set....
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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I wouldn't agree with that... Microsoft don't make PC's, just the OS that run them. But the Windows 7 ads worked because they were showing people what you could do with the OS (the "Windows 7 was my idea" ones). People thought that looked cool and knew what they wanted before going into the shops.
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.

FTC said:
This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Advertising an OS is still possible, but the current form is basically promoting a very unclear solution for a non-existing problem. This won't go anywhere.

FTC said:
... This is why Microsoft needs to team up with the hardware makers and the carriers to advertise specific products which the consumer can go to a shop and ask for: "I want to see the Samsung/HTC/whatever Focus/HD7/whatever"
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Microsoft can't do "just" that. Ms loves to put long, wordy names on products. "Droid Does" was a brilliant campaign, like the product or not. Can't believe ms didn't learn from it. It displayed the os's capabilities, and gave the customer the easiest one word request that equalled sales: gimmie a droid !
Walking into a store and having a customer be expected to remember " gimmie a microsoft windows phone seven samsung focus - the newer version" isn't going to work. "Gimmie an iphone" proved this also.
Drop the marketspeak, drop the 20 syllable phone phonics, and drop the suits. Apple sold billions with kids dancing with their device in hand. Du huh ?
Androids sell because -everyone- recognizes the name and google. That, and there are 30 to choose from at the stores. Names like g1, g2, nexus, bionic, thunderbolt... no one cares who made it, or embellishments in wordy names.

Peew971 said:
Same goes for Apple, most of their ads cover iOS and iOS apps, it's only with the iPhone 4 that they started insisting on things like Retina Display. Most of what they show is the OS, not the hardware. Microsoft needs to advertise the OS and actually show what it can do.
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...I don't know if in the UK you get your load of Apple TV-spots for the iPhone as we do in Germany: "If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone..." It shows the actual phone and what you can do with it. This is what matters and this is "hard selling"... If Microsoft does something similar (as they are still doing), it shows nicely what you can do and how simple it is, but it is not backed up by some specific devices. With Apple, the consumer knows he has to ask for an iPhone, with WP7 he has to ask for a vague "Windows Phone" .... For Android, the makers advertise their specific models but are not talking about "Android Phone"... And this is the big difference which really matters...

You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
Some examples:

vangrieg said:
It's actually a quite frequently observed failure on the part of client marketing team/agency creative folks miscommunication. What the agency probably got in the creative brief was an assignment to create a series of attention-grabbing videos with a "creative" catchphrase that would convey the "glance and go" message, which Microsoft people decided was all-important. This idea could only come from people who know the product well. Of course they didn't mean that you needn't use your phone anymore, what they meant was that you may now spend much less time with non-productive overhead stuff, and do things easier and faster and so on. The problem is that the message is being communicated to people who don't know anything about the OS, and therefore would have absolutely no clue how this "glance and go" will happen, or why it is even important. But "how" and "why" weren't in the brief. And the agency listened to their client and decided not to argue.
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I know exactly what they meant. I don't any explanation.
The fact and the matter is that it flew over people's head and that message was so vague that it was basically ignorable.
Also, the ads were not attention grabbing at all.
This is great Advertising, IMO. It totally grabs your attention and gets the point across. It gets right to the point, and it doesn't feel like it drags on forever. It's hillarious, too.
See here:
The Microsoft Ads were nothing like that.

Peew971 said:
You dismissed the part where I was talking about the "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. These were very effective without mentioning any specific computer or manufacturer. All they did was showcasing the OS and it worked!
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I got your point and you're wasting your time even bothering with responding to that other person. It was obvious.
WP7 is similar to iOS in that hte launch devices all used extremely similar hardware configurations. Microsoft could have marketed it like an iPhone and every ad would have been legit.
The crap about "Microsoft is marketing an OS, Apple is Marketing a phone" doesn't fly. WP7 is not Android. Microsoft dictated the launch device specs so tightly that they were all basically the same thing. The user experience on literally all those phones were pretty stock and unmodified.

Apple Gets Patent on Multitasking...

http://m.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/apple-granted-patent-on-using-apps-during-calls/17407
Title says it all. This is getting out of control.
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The people I'm upset are are the idiots granting the patents

Something I've been able to do since I've had the blackberry.
All this **** they are patenting is so trivial to technology that I think other companies never bothered. Soon enough they will patent pooping with a smart phone and we'll all be doomed.

Other articles clearly state it's the exact arrangement of techniques and interface that would be defensible, not merely multitasking. Someone would have to copy pretty much the exact full layout and procedure for it, not merely multitasking. Not reason to get worried beyond Apple likely going after anyone who's copied their interface too tightly. So outside of maybe Meizu, no major worries.

It's frigging ridiculous with all these companies suing each other. Half the time they are partners anyway-for example, Samsung supplies chips for the ipad-so I think a lot of this is driven by lawyers, who are the only ones who always win regardless of how the rulings go.

So yet again Apple takes something everyone has been doing for a long time and slaps a patent on it.
Hold down something to bring up a menu, select the program/function, switch. Repeat to return to previous or different program.

Everybody take a deep breath this isn't what you think it is...
It is actually for changing the interface of the app you are using while in a call (adding a notification bar at the top), not just changing to an app while in a call.
From what I understand is that Android doesn't have to even think about this since you can see the notification bar almost all the time and is a part of the OS no the App anyway and that's what Android generally uses.
Really what Apple patented it was the ability to screw with an app's interface while on a call.

lifyre said:
Everybody take a deep breath this isn't what you think it is...
Really what Apple patented it was the ability to screw with an app's interface while on a call.
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Exactly, from the article:
"modifying the corresponding application user interface to include a switch application icon that is not displayed in the corresponding application user interface when there is no ongoing phone call"
Either display the switch icon outside of the second UI or have the second UI include the switch icon all the time - at least two ways to design around this patent, and as others have said unless the interface is copied exactly, there shouldn't be any issues... I hate it when articles summarize an issued patent using the broadest interpretation possible based on some part of the title...

I like to browse or use apps while on a call, by simply hitting the home button. Apple is specifically doing this to go after android and the companies who make android phones. We should be worried and oppose.

phatmanxxl said:
I like to browse or use apps while on a call, by simply hitting the home button. Apple is specifically doing this to go after android and the companies who make android phones. We should be worried and oppose.
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If that were the case, their patent would reflect that. It doesn't. It's nothing like how Android does it.

Just like the patent they got on being able to tap on a phone number from an email message and dial it. I was able to do that with my Treo well before the iPhone was even a glimmer in Steve's eyes.
It's just stupid they are getting these. I thought any prior work voids these things?

They call this one the 'we finally figured out how to do this too!' patent.
Time for google go bust out some moto patents and force apple to remove cellphone functionality from the iphone.
'youre a barista... you bariste for a living...' love that commercial...

If it's that easy to get patents, maybe Google should play Apples silly game and put a patent on answering the phone.

Like I said innoff topic, its like Coke suing Pepsi for using carbonated water, and Coke winning. When carbonated drinks were around before both products were ever produced. Epic fail with this patent system. Its lost its purpose.

When the patent office has a display honoring Steve Jobs, obviously impartiality does not exist.
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Good one! But true! Im losing respect for apple in general. They arent really all that innovative. They're kinda like P Diddy, they just remix tech instead of creating new!
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NickDG said:
Just like the patent they got on being able to tap on a phone number from an email message and dial it. I was able to do that with my Treo well before the iPhone was even a glimmer in Steve's eyes.
It's just stupid they are getting these. I thought any prior work voids these things?
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The patent in question was filed by Apple in 1996, before your Treo was a glimmer in Handspring's eyes. I made the same point you did elsewhere and got corrected. The patent's age makes it valid, but others have pointed out it should still count as an obvious function.

Apple so badly wants to be the best they're trying to cripple the competition. Apple and the fanboys claim to be "best in the world", but they're trying to be #1 by default instead of #1 by design. If you're the best prove it, don't cry to the teacher saying that someone else is stealing your science project. Buncha damn crybaby apple fanboys. I still think it's funny that they're not messing with google, just the hardware manufacturers.

I still don't understand why apple is getting away with the drop down notification, clearly an android feature. Im afraid that Apple might try and patent that as well if Google sits on their hands.

phatmanxxl said:
I still don't understand why apple is getting away with the drop down notification, clearly an android feature. Im afraid that Apple might try and patent that as well if Google sits on their hands.
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Can Google even patent an open source project. Google has open sourced Android, Apple could literally rip off the whole OS.
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Apple files injunction against Samsung to ban SGN in US..

Link to Android Central article
Apple has once again called Samsung into court. This time it's about the Galaxy Nexus and four patents that Apple says it infringes. The patents in question are:
U.S. Patent No. 5,946,647: a patent for data being used as a hyperlink
U.S. Patent No. 8,086,604: a unified search patent
U.S. Patent No. 8,046,721: a slide-to-unlock patent
U.S. Patent No. 8,074,172: a word completion patent*
Apple is requesting that the Samsung Galaxy Nexus be blocked from sale in the United States because it violates these patents. *Should the court find in favor of Apple, a ban against the Galaxy Nexus would be put in effect until the final court decision. *
Could it happen? Certainly. But if it does, it won't go into effect any time soon, it would only affect stores inside the U.S. selling these products, and no jack-booted thugs from Cupertino will come pry your Nexus from your hands. We can't be sure how the courts will act, but all of these are pretty shaky patents, and once again Apple is not going after Google directly -- even though the Galaxy Nexus has a pure vanilla version of Android. *The only certainty here is that the patent system is broken and only serves the company willing to spend the most in the courts.
It's time for Google to step in and put a stop to this bull****. The first patent in question is the same one that was upheld against HTC in a move that shocked the tech community at large, essentially giving Apple the rights to the hyperlink -- something invented over 20 years ago by numerous companies that aren't Apple.
The other three are just as laughable, or would be if not for the fact that Apple was allowed to secure the patents at all.*Every single one of them has existed as prior art long before Apple became relevant, yet a patent was granted each and every time. This is the core of the problem. You can't blame Apple for trying, it's cheaper to litigate away your competition than it is to out-innovate them. *And make no mistake -- that's exactly what's going on here. *Apple wants Android to go away, and a look at any chart that shows market share will tell you why. *It's a ****ty way to get ahead, but it's too easy not to try. It's going to take a tech giant to change the way this all works, and we know nobody can count on Apple or Microsoft to do it, because this is their system, created the way they like it, and making them rich. If Apple is afraid to go after Google, Google needs to go after Apple instead of sitting on their laurels waiting to ride in and save the day at the last minute.
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Watch this video!
"Great artist steal! We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." -Steve Jobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Not trying to flame but you guys really should search better. This has been posted several times. Please search!!"
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just yesterday
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1492356
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americans, you have over 200 parties, not only republicants and the democrats... so vote for Pirate Party and stop this patent bull****
to be honest, US patent system is hilarious

lrs421 said:
Not trying to flame but you guys really should search better. This has been posted several times. Please search!!"
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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I did search first. I turned up results for the "Android General" forum but not the SGN forum. Do you have an opinion on the topic?
lrs421 said:
just yesterday
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1492356
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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I would have def posted there if I had seen it, I searched using dif key words. However that is irrelevant now. The thread you linked got no attention at all, except for one guy who confused it for the old story that did NOT pertain to the US. Once again I would like to ask, do you have an opinion? Or does your lack or critical thinking always result in a "don't post this" attitude? I would like to discuss and get other peoples opinions please.

asheg said:
to be honest, US patent system is hilarious
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agreed!! Or rather what Apple does to it is. Did you watch the vid?

It's OK to steal as long as Apple is doing the stealing
Apple's new Slogan.

Apple is quite obviously scared of the SGN. Justifiably so. Unbelievable that they would go after Samsung though since the software is all Google....

DIECAST61 said:
Apple's new Slogan.
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This has always been their slogan, it's not just a new thing.

WiredPirate said:
agreed!! Or rather what Apple does to it is. Did you watch the vid?
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nope) what vid?)

asheg said:
nope) what vid?)
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The YouTube video in OP at the bottom, the Steve Jobs one..
Here is the link again, not sure how to embed it here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

eh..without watching the full video that clip is taken pretty out of context.

What are the chances of this blowing over and getting solved? Why I ask is that I want this phone but I need to put some money together to buy it since I have to buy it at full price if I want it and I'd hate to see this phone no longer being able to be sold because of stupid ****ing Apple.

foxehkins said:
eh..without watching the full video that clip is taken pretty out of context.
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In what context is stealing others work and claiming it as your own okay?
Edit: what about the patent Apple filed recently for a "facial recognition unlock" on their products!? It seams to me Apple is holding up the progress of technology by acquiring their products in court and not in the lab or whatever. They just throw around their weight and money and bully other companies to steal. Jesus Steve Jobs said it himself and you are still trying to defend them.
trparky said:
What are the chances of this blowing over and getting solved? Why I ask is that I want this phone but I need to put some money together to buy it since I have to buy it at full price if I want it and I'd hate to see this phone no longer being able to be sold because of stupid ****ing Apple.
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Well it was shot down over seas, but here in the US who knows. I would say you will hear about the progress and if it seams you need to buy one quickly you can. And there is always importing in case of a worst case scenario.

What I am most confused about is why is Google not patenting their own work!? I don't get it, they see what Apple is doing yet they seam unwilling to protect their own asses? Are they being wreckless or stupid or..?

Here, from AndroidCentral.. There are links for detailed info about those four patents :
http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-it-again-calling-injunction-against-galaxy-nexus
So, let's discuss those patents. Do you think Apple has a big chance?
Note that the first patent has won them against HTC.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

gogol said:
Here, from AndroidCentral.. There are links for detailed info about those four patents :
http://www.androidcentral.com/apple-it-again-calling-injunction-against-galaxy-nexus
So, let's discuss those patents. Do you think Apple has a big chance?
Note that the first patent has won them against HTC.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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That is the link/ body of text from the OP?. I don't fully understand patents and law but am very interested. The best I can do is state my personal opinions, which I think I have made clear already. I personally think it is a toss up whether Apple has a chance and this is just a way for them to cash in, slow Google and others progress and a way to bully others and steal once again. I think any of the four patents being infringed on should not belong to a apple or any other company either. Let's make progress not slow progress by bickering in court who owns the right to hyperlinks. Amirite?

WiredPirate said:
... It seams to me Apple is holding up the progress of technology by acquiring their products in court and not in the lab or whatever....
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Apple hasn't come up with much new since the iPhone 2g, they came out with a bang and stopped dead in their tracks. All they're doing now is putting speed bumps in front of all of those whizzing by them.

opensourcefan said:
Apple hasn't come up with much new since the iPhone 2g, they came out with a bang and stopped dead in their tracks. All they're doing now is putting speed bumps in front of all of those whizzing by them.
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100% agree with that statement and i say it to my brother who has an iphone 4s all the time.
My brother has owned every iphone since they were launched and will defend apple to the end of time.
Apple came out with a great phone to begin with, but have since not really come out with anything completely innovative which has completely changed ios.
Still the same old launcher of icons after icons... same lock screen blah blah blah.
If you look at an origional iphone and then look at an iphone 4s theres not really anything other than the speed improvements that makes you think wow apple has come a long way with the software... ( other than the notifacation bar they added... wonder where they got that idea from ).
Apple need to man up and stop throwing law suits around and come up with some new ideas.
All this does is slow down progress for everybody.
Oh btw... Where do iphones get most of there parts from? Oh thats right... SAMSUNG!!!!

Apple can't sue software, they can only sue the hardware manufacturer. That is why they sued Samsung instead of Google.

[Q] Why is the Galaxy Nexus the red headed stepchild?

I saw one commercial around original launch time for the galaxy nexus, and honestly it pushed Google+ harder than the hardware itself. I have not seen any unlocked galaxy nexus commercials in the US. I like having the exclusive phone and all, but this seems a bit ridiculous. There is no reason the galaxy nexus couldn't have way outperformed the note in sales. I still get asked all the time when I pay with google wallet, "Is that an iPhone?". No. "Oh, is that a droid?" No! Its cute to know there are so many ignorant people out there at first. However, it tends to get irritating that google spends so much time and so many resources on ICS to make it the beautiful experience that it is and then just watches the nexus line flop hopelessly on the floor while the cumbersome touchwiz and bloated sense dominate the market.
Can someone please explain to me why Google and Samsung insist on wasting all this time and all these resources on building such a great product to only slide it into a bookshelf to collect dust as it were?

Samsung has bigger fish to fry (SGII and probably the SGIII) which due to crapware probably make more money from these phones, and Google advertises on their own sites but wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to push a phone that they probably only make little profit off of.
Enjoy the fact that you have a phone that will get JB before basically anyone else, that you have stock android, and that you have one of the greatest dev community's of all time. OF ALL TIME!
Also, go into a Verizon store, you wouldn't even think that they sold a GNexus where I live (Pittsburgh, PA), Multiple Motorola/HTC shrines while the GNexus sits right next to the Bionic in the corner of forgotten phones.

I honestly don't know and I can't tell you. There's two things Google sucks at terribly: marketing and support.
Microsoft is in a similar boat. It doesn't matter how much either company innovates, they are incapable of letting people know their products exist and they fall to the wayside.
I loved Windows Media Centre when it first came out. But version after version of it has come and gone and little features have been added. I eventually switched to XBMC. Why? Because no one knows what Windows Media Centre is. Microsoft isn't wasting time on it for the few guys with TV tuners.
Take the above example and substitute almost all Google products in there. Wave, Buzz, even Google Docs. I use it all the time and it's a great product, but people see it and have no clue it exists. For that matter I doubt they even know you can use Microsoft's web based Word with SkyDrive.
The tech companies seem to be in this funk where they compete against each other for features, but forget to inform the public that they're even offering the services they launch. It's no wonder that Apple is dominating, look at how much more they spend on campaigns. iPod ads plastered all over buildings... even seniors know the word iPod even if they don't know what it is.
All Google needs to do to take over the world is hire people from Apple's marketing team. Make something viral. The last time they had that was with the Google search engine itself and Gmail. G+ while it's nice, only boomed with the intake of new tech heads. Sign-ups died right after because no consumers know it exists and Google has failed to tell them why it's any better than Facebook.
Here in my city, the Galaxy Nexus is actually kind of popular, but that's only because Bell and Virgin put out big billboards for it's launch. I say kind of, because those billboards are gone now that the launch is over. Bet you there's still a huge iPhone 4s sign in all of those stores though.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1382163

WiredPirate said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1382163
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Wow really? This isn't a phone tech question but rather a topic of discussion.

spencer88 said:
Wow really? This isn't a phone tech question but rather a topic of discussion.
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Not a question? lmao
[Q] Why is the Galaxy Nexus the red headed stepchild?
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By the tone of your post I think you are comparing your phone to a soulless bastard ginger.
I on the other hand I compare mine to that sleek sexy read head with an attitude and a desire to get dirty.

geez, how many more of these kinds of posts are we going to see?

Here... now everyone can feel better and we can go about our day.

WiredPirate said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1382163
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It says "!!ALL QUESTIONS GO IN THE Q&A FORUM!!", that's pretty clear.

Was this same bull**** present for the Nexus S and Nexus One?
Because I didn't see much for advertisement with them either.
Not that I care-- I don't purchase or put value on my purchases by how much they are marketed or known.
That said, I don't flaunt my phone around to a bunch of looky-lous for attention either.

adrynalyne said:
Was this same bull**** present for the Nexus S and Nexus One?
Because I didn't see much for advertisement with them either.
Not that I care-- I don't purchase or put value on my purchases by how much they are marketed or known.
That said, I don't flaunt my phone around to a bunch of looky-lous for attention either.
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The Nexus One was considered a flop by the industry. I personally was fully behind Google selling fully unlocked phones. I think if they could have gotten the price a bit less inflated and marketed it properly, the Nexus line could be more than it is now. I just don't think Google is that interested in selling phones. It's about the money and that comes from the licencing they get from other manufacturers.

thequinox said:
The Nexus One was considered a flop by the industry. I personally was fully behind Google selling fully unlocked phones. I think if they could have gotten the price a bit less inflated and marketed it properly, the Nexus line could be more than it is now. I just don't think Google is that interested in selling phones. It's about the money and that comes from the licencing they get from other manufacturers.
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I wasn't aware that Google licensed Android to OEM's. Pretty sure it's free because it's under the GPL.

No it is not under the GPL. Most of it is Apache licensed, with a few things under GPL. There are also closed source portions. Some things do have to be licensed to OEMs. Otherwise, they would never legally be able to offer google apps on their devices ootb, be able to sync with Google Calendar, and several other things.

adrynalyne said:
No it is not under the GPL. Most of it is Apache licensed, with a few things under GPL. There are also closed source portions. Some things do have to be licensed to OEMs. Otherwise, they would never legally be able to offer google apps on their devices ootb, be able to sync with Google Calendar, and several other things.
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Ahh I forgot about the proprietary Google Apps. Makes sense.

thequinox said:
The Nexus One was considered a flop by the industry. I personally was fully behind Google selling fully unlocked phones. I think if they could have gotten the price a bit less inflated and marketed it properly, the Nexus line could be more than it is now. I just don't think Google is that interested in selling phones. It's about the money and that comes from the licencing they get from other manufacturers.
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It's a reference phone. That's all that is. This reference phone has two purposes:
1) Flagship device: "beta" test the next Android update with newer hardware.
2) Reference... its a prototype to suggest what the minimum hardware should be.
Nexus One set the standard for all future phones to have a 1GHz CPU.
I agree with adrynalyne. The Galaxy Nexus has a great developer community and support with great ROMs/kernels. I can really care less if the Galaxy Nexus isn't as popular as a iPhone or Galaxy S series. Just know that the Galaxy Nexus is a flagship device and will get Android 5.0 before any other phones get it (with the exception of the next "Nexus" flagship)

Apple wins Samsung lawsuit in US, ridicilous but....

Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
As now this whole thing probably gets deeper with appeals and most likely Google will have to get more involved. What do you think, the 2 biggest are fighting together could this actually a good thing for WP camp, especially Nokia since they are the main manufacturer in the WP camp?
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This has no benefit to WP whatsoever, 1B for samsung is like two pieces of paper, and they won't pay it, they'll appeal as usual.
So, nope Nokia and WP will need something else to shine.

apple will get, ohhhh , about what they get for 3 months worth of new activstions on iPhones. Samsung will keep on pummeling us with incredible phones.
Nokia? no benefit. unless it bumps the stock price (taking profits time) for the folks that are raping it daily.

This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.

Loco5150 said:
This most likely will end with sales ban for some devices, also Apple will go after other Android manufacturers. Bloomberg also reports that Samsung will most likely have to delay some new devices so they have time to change things so they will not do the same thing again.
All this might be helping the smaller guy. But for the record I hope the appeals court will change this verdict. Also that they void Apple's ridicilous and vague patents that never should have been rewarded anyway.
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but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?

ohgood said:
but those rounded corners are apples' genius!
the whole thing is stupid anyway. if you can't win in sales, sic lawyers on the competition.
remember sco?
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wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.

Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points. Paying for anything doesn't appeal to them, they much prefer stealing instead. Don't get me wrong, I still think that these things should be under FRAND, but law is there to be respected or reformed, acting like it didn't exist and getting into such kind of trials just in order to spare a few bucks is just being a lame and disrespectful scumbag company. At least in this case, justice was done. Now let's reform this patent bull**** system.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.

dazza9075 said:
wasnt the rectangle with rounded corners thrown out though?
as to the topic, It could be good for WP, the whole android model is starting to look a bit dodgy, potentially, manufactures might start to say its not worth the hassle and since google has made it perfectly clear they are on their own it makes for a juicy target!
MS and Apple have cross licence agreements going back decades and as such are by and large protected from this stupidity, but lets be clear on something here, its neither apple or Samsung that should be attacked because of these daft patent wars, its the people in the patent office that should be shot, if Apple are awarded a patent for a box with a button in the middle then it is perfectly within its rights to uphold that patent.
its stupid, but I don't hold the companies to blame, every single one of us would jump through hoops to make 2.7B USD regardless of how stupid it is and how marginal it is, if there was a chance we'd go for it, and its the patent office that sets up these chances.
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I was being silly about the round corners. the patent system is broken, but that's another story /thread.
so long as the android devices are selling better than the iPhone, I doubt manufacturers will think of it as dodgy.
manufacturers only care about selling phones... they'll do whatever is needed to keel doing that, inuding paying pennies to the apple gods to do so. passing on expenses is economics 101. (sad really)
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gilesjuk said:
Having owned a device from every smartphone platform except BB and Android I think Android is the platform that tends to borrow the most from everyone else.
Samsung is a cloning company, they make things for people. So it should come as no surprise that they are good at lifting other peoples ideas.
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
I think iOS has fallen behind the times and so my move to Windows Phone, but we all owe Apple for making multitouch and finger based touchscreen devices mainstream. It's something Samsing would never have done, their top selling phones before the iPhone were mostly dumbphones.
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its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes. look at your local craigslist , the most desired phones are back and forth between ihpone 4s and s3/s2. I would expect some kind of shattering ideals cpu and display by Christmas from them also.
clones? yes, everyone is making a slab of glass phone. its what sells now. Nokia, Samsung, HTC, LG (are they still making phones) , everyone is on the slab of glass bandwagon.

ohgood said:
its not much of a struggle to think of very good, very impressive samsung devices of late. the s3 and even s2 are selling (and reselling) like hotcakes.
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Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).

gilesjuk said:
Yes, but they're basically "me too" products. They've taken their existing product and added hundreds of features and bigger screen etc.
The sad thing is Apple is now stuck in this cycle of just adding a few more features, nicer screen and camera.
What I was saying was when did Samsung ever release a product that totally changed the market? It seems to me that Apple has released the devices that changed the computing industry the most. Mam, iMac, iPod and iPhone, iPad. While they may not have invented all the technology they used it still takes a lot of guts to release a different product.
The sad thing is how Microsoft laughed at the iPhone and then scrambled to release their own comparable platform (3 years later!).
I couldn't care less for Google, they're even worse than Microsoft for copying. At least when Microsoft look at a rival and release their version it is usually better in many ways, cheaper and not much less in quality. Google's stuff tends to be very low quality and poorly supported. Even devices they have had made for them were badly made (Nexus 7).
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ahhh, misunderstood you. I see now.
can't think of anything revolutoonary since the mouse really. voice input is neat, but the keyboard and mouse still own.

Loco5150 said:
Ok so Apple is rewarded +1 billion USD from Samsung copying their patents. I have to say that some of those patens must have been approved by people who smoke crack. I hate the verdict, I hate the fact that this type of trial in US is actually decided by jury of regular people. There are just so many things I hate about the whole thing thats going on, but thats not why Im posting.
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Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
vnvman said:
Well it's just about some patents regarding pinch to zoom, double tap and bounce scroll. All of the other competitors were paying already for using those patented features, Samsung wasn't because it's a scumbag company which is only able to make good internals and displays slapping them into fugly plastic bodies with no personality whatsoever, and therefore keeps copying the competition to make up for the above mentioned weak points.
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You said it brother.
gilesjuk said:
What ground-breaking products has Samsung introduced to the market? by that I mean game changing devices, not technology. I bet you're struggling to think of any.
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Nope. Samsung Note. At first I thought it sounded redonkulous. The build quality sucks compared to the Lumia 900 but the screen size definitely caught on with a certain segment of the population. The iphone 4s' screen is pathetic. No way around that. I'm not saying I would cruise around with a note in my pocket but it definitely explores a space. If the iphone 4s was the final word on smartphone screens we would be stuck in the stone ages. People crow about the iphone apps but I can't see those things God damn it! That screen is tiny.

sitizenx said:
Err... This jury had people with legal knowledge and at least one engineer with a patent of their own. It was probably the most knowledgeable jury I've seen... ever.
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Yup, one person that that has some knowledge on patents. Not enough in my opinion. Even if it was the "most knowledgeable jury", that does not mean that it is qualified to handle the matter.
Now why I started the whole topic. Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
And yes Samsung keeps copying things, hell yes that happens in every business all the time. But you know what, so does Apple. They are just better at it. They basically steal because they are able to make the consumer think they actually invented these things. They did not invent mp3 player or a touch screen phone, they just copied it and made it better.

Loco5150 said:
Apple has now asked sales ban for 8 Samsung devices in the US. I would expect we will see a lot more of this in the near future.
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proof that the USA is in need of a rethink of (not just) its patent system.
they want the sales ban to get some of their sales percentage back, not because of patent infringement. its a lie covering inadequacies. pitiful.

The law ask "are the products similar "? Thats all it ask, and the obvious answer is...
Everybody said it before the original Galaxy S was released,"boy that thing looks a lot like the iPhone". Every reviewer, just YouTube it. The icons and bounce scroll sealed it.
Dont hate the player(Apple), hate the game(patent system).
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

So here we go... Now Apple is seeking sales ban for new Samsung devices, inluding Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note.