Related
Please sign, thank you.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/7seriesphoneboycott/
Petition Message:
I'll make this short and to the point.
Windows Mobile:
Function: Extremely capable OS
Form: Dense, outdated user interface.
Windows Phone 7 Series:
Function: OS crippled by a lack of basic features
Form: Intuitive, modern user interface.
Microsoft has selected form over functionality and that is a decision we can not and will not support with our own monetary funds. Microsoft, you're decision to neglect basic features such as...
- an open file system accessible to the user
- copy + paste
- true multitasking
- true customization
... has resulted in our collective decision to boycott all
future Windows Phones until the above issues are addressed.
signed
also, if you can add:
no DRM
Also, post your negative thoughts on your Twitter accounts with the #wp7s along with it. Windows' accounts (the developers, Windows Phone account, Windows account) has been making posts with #wp7s in them so that readers can search for all related posts. If they are mostly negative, the developers are bound to notice.
I sent a message to wmpoweruser.com to see if they can post a link on their main page. I hope they come through.
Just postimg so this doesn't get lost in the forum. Please sign the petition.
Dwight2001
Signed with the hopes Microsoft adds some of those features later. But I'll still purchase either way honestly.
Signed. Let's just hope they will start listening to us
Let's face it, corporations only listen to the money. There's the geek crowd, then there's the mainstream crowd. The fattest pockets win.
My idea of "doing something about it" involves changing platforms. Good luck though. I hear MS loves customer feedback. As nice as Win7 is (My name is fortunz, and Win7 was my idea -- 4 years ago), it's a tech generation later than it should have been.
you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones
klasital said:
you know those windows 7 commercials where the actors and actress explain some nifty features like the task bar and stuff, then at the end of the commercial they proudly say "windows 7 was my idea".
It really contradicts what they are doing with windows phone 7 series in which cases, none of what they are doing are what users would want from winmo phones
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I disagree. Too many people saying MS is stupid for this don't have the ability to step outside of their own little box and view the situation as it actually is. too many people think because THEY feel a certian way, it's how the rest of the world feels too.
I agree with many users here. I hate what I know of WP7.. I probably wont buy it... I totally see android in my future.. BUT... here is a little perspective.
The Iphone JUST got copy and paste not too long ago. The Iphone does not have a file system browser. The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
See.. What you want, and What I want, is not what most people want.
Microsoft knows that WP7 is what the masses need. A device that's not difficult. A device that lets them surf the web, get text messages, listen to music, tweet, and update facebook. A device that "Just works" They dont want all kinds of customizable settings and stuff.. It's too complicated.. Frankly, the average human is an idiot.
A majority us who frequent these forums like to have settings and options and like to change and customize their phones. They like custom roms. They dont mind actually thinking a little and trying to figure out a problem. They dont care that they spend more time flashing and tweaking, and customizing than actually using the device...
But the rest of the world, the VAST majority, wants an Iphone... WP7 was THIER Idea.
x51 said:
The Iphone cant multitask. hrm.. what else? Oh yeah the Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
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It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually. I generally agree that MS can succeed with this, but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
To everyone who wants an iPhone, locked down, restricted controlled experience -- which is a considerable number of people -- enjoy. Just don't feel threatened by the fact that I want an actual smartphone, not a smarter than average feature phone.
x51 said:
Iphone has MOST of the market-share.
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fortunz said:
It's 3rd behind RIM and Nokia, actually.
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Yeah, I guess I was really thinking about WM vs Android, vs Iphone.
I had not considered Blackberry, and had no Idea Nokia was at the top.
Guess I need to look outside my own little box..
fortunz said:
but I see rather the opposite of the point you make about xda's little discussion. I don't see nay-sayers demanding everyone hate it, I see defenders telling me I should like it.
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I was't making a point about XDA attitudes as a whole.. But I see a lot of people complaining that "MS is making a bad decision", and that "they will fail with this", and "how could they remove a file system browser".. etc.
This very thread is a petition to attempt to make MS change their direction on WP7..
And while I wish MS would.. I was pointing out that MS is trying to tap the Apple success.. so they are building an Apple like product.. and even though they will probably lose me and others.. they will likely gain much much more than they lose. From a company standpoint.. It's probably a good decision.
I'm pretty sure MS wont miss me at all.
Then again, I may love it.. and I cant wait to actually play with a final live release. The talented devs here will probably crack it.. make custom roms.. port "light" versions to phones that are 6 years old... who knows.. only time will tell.
Signed.
But have to say, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a Pro version will all the features that are missing.
Logicalstep
+1
I'm relaying your petition on french website "Planete HTC".
Add no Flash.
It really is looking like Jo Bob's phone. It has no place for IT/CompSci types like us who like to break it down and micromanage our phones...
...I still can't find any mention of them discontinuing 'Windows Mobile' completley on any sites...only about the 'Windows Phone' Release.
There used to be a big distinction between smartphone and PDA editions so maybe this is part of that 'smartphone' umbrella!? Could this possibly mean that they intent to follow 'Windows Phone 7' with 'Windows Mobile 7' ?
Lets hope so, WP7 has nothing of appeal for me (apart form the hardware specs it will bring)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=110857428927753
facebook thread to gain more awareness about it ^
the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.
smoother2010 said:
the petition and this thread is useless. if you really want to hurt micro$oft then move to android or another platform.
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I completely agree.
Developing a phone OS is a monumental effort. Once the foundation is laid, it is not easy to dismantle and redo. I don't think it was an easy decision for MS to finally implicitly admit that Apple's ways were the better ways and to copy the concepts such as having physical stores, a single application store, locked down OS to protect the developers/book sellers/music artists, drastic reduction in hardware variation, etc etc. If they're smart, they will also secretly have a team of people to jailbreak their own OS in order to also satisfy the more geeky users but also pretent to fight these jailbreak community. In that way, they satisfy the software developers/music artist hence gain support for the growth and success of the online application store, at the same time, meet the requirements of the more geeky users like ourselves.
hey, i recently joined this page on facebook (i've withheld the name of the page as to not seem like i'm here to promote it or such, not that it requires promotion with its 2 million members) and a many of us including the owner of the page there are a free-thinking bunch. The problem is that whenever some user finds something we say offensive, we get reported and are blocked from posting for 10-12 hours, sometimes entire days...
The gracious admin there took it upon himself to finance an entirely new site as a refuge for us. But most of lack the technical know-how of getting a site up and running. We have a few volunteers ready to devote their time and skills to help in the site's construction.
The owner suggested a forum-esque feel to the site rather than something like facebook itself and when anyone mentions forum the only thing my mind thinks is XDA!! This site is the epitome of what a forum should be about!!
So i was hoping if anyone could give me some sort of information as to what the site is based on (HTML, PHP, etc)? what type security measures should we be looking at? we read something about a using social networking engines to enable features like instant messaging...
i was hoping if someone could point me (and by relation, us) in the right direction.
Any help would be much appreciated.
psychocyst said:
hey, i recently joined this page on facebook (i've withheld the name of the page as to not seem like i'm here to promote it or such, not that it requires promotion with its 2 million members) and a many of us including the owner of the page there are a free-thinking bunch. The problem is that whenever some user finds something we say offensive, we get reported and are blocked from posting for 10-12 hours, sometimes entire days...
The gracious admin there took it upon himself to finance an entirely new site as a refuge for us. But most of lack the technical know-how of getting a site up and running. We have a few volunteers ready to devote their time and skills to help in the site's construction.
The owner suggested a forum-esque feel to the site rather than something like facebook itself and when anyone mentions forum the only thing my mind thinks is XDA!! This site is the epitome of what a forum should be about!!
So i was hoping if anyone could give me some sort of information as to what the site is based on (HTML, PHP, etc)? what type security measures should we be looking at? we read something about a using social networking engines to enable features like instant messaging...
i was hoping if someone could point me (and by relation, us) in the right direction.
Any help would be much appreciated.
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Click to collapse
This site is running on vBulletin 3.8.6 which is commercial software. There are free bulletin boards out there. As for security, this is a massive topic that I don't think anyone can summarise. Obvious things like good password policies (long and random, never re-used, etc) and keeping all software patched up to date are key. Other than that it all depends on the implementation. Also, there are penetration testing tools that you can find off the internet to test your site.
Dave
thanks a million Dave. i'll look into it and pass the message on to our group.
psychocyst said:
thanks a million Dave. i'll look into it and pass the message on to our group.
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What Dave said, but beware that your site is only as secure as the system it runs on.
Your system can be the most secure in the world, with lovely nice PHP code, the latest patched vBulletin install, and I might still get into it...
If you are using shared web hosting, and some peon is using an out of date wordpress install, they can likely wreak a fair bit of havock on a poorly setup server.
Unfortunately most shared hosting is poorly setup. If you have 2 million members, you WILL need dedicated server space. I would also suggest you need to seriously consider the undertaking here - 2 million people is A LOT, and I don't know how many simultaneous users you are talking about, but it sounds a big target...
You will need a fairly powerful server from the sounds of it. I would suggest looking at the available forum systems, installing them (free ones), or trying out the demos.
I assist in the running of a number of sites, from single figure numbers of visitors per day, through to hundreds of thousands/millions per day... The requirements for these differ HUGELY. While something free like SMF might be good for a site with 200 folk, it's not likely a good idea on a site with 100,000 visitors per day posting...
Consider backup strategies too, for WHEN the worst happens - not if... Where will you store backups? How will you secure them?
Finally, remember to look to the future. phpBB is pretty poor, I suggest avoiding it. But what will you move to next? Make sure you pick a system that ain't gonna die tomorrow... If it does, you are stuck without security updates, and you might find it hard to migrate to another one... Be sure to go with a system that has good support to migrate further if/when the time comes...
woah!! ok, this was a big help...although we have close to 2 million people signed on, only about 30 - 40% of those are regularly active and perhaps 100 or so who're almost always there...
i saw BBCode implementation at linux mint forums and found it a total fail compared to XDA...i had completely forgotten about the back-up portion...
knew i could count on XDA for a lil' help...God i love this site!!
psychocyst said:
woah!! ok, this was a big help...although we have close to 2 million people signed on, only about 30 - 40% of those are regularly active and perhaps 100 or so who're almost always there...
i saw BBCode implementation at linux mint forums and found it a total fail compared to XDA...i had completely forgotten about the back-up portion...
knew i could count on XDA for a lil' help...God i love this site!!
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Haha no worries.
From those figures I would size the site based on coping with 5000 simultaneous users minimum. I doubt you will get as much tbh, as many people hit the homepage and look at the latest, then go to the next site they visit.
If you can afford, aim to cope with 10k+ simultaneous, to cover you for if you get a bout of publicity...
I'd reckon on a well-run server you would be OK with 8 to 16 GB of RAM, and a few hundred gigabytes of hdd. Bandwidth is hard to gauge without info on the site and content...
But I think it could be run for under $400 per month, and that is a very high estimate to cover things like multiple backup locations.
You will instantly ruin your site reputation if you need to use backups and they don't work...
If nobody is experienced in server management, hire someone to do it. These things are often best left to the experts where you are unsure... It will likely pay for itself in their expertise at least 3 times a month (or at least that's how often some of my clients proclaim I saved their "lives" )
We all know one of the biggest gripes about Windows Phone is the lack of a few key apps. I know that I frequently contact a few companies to let them know that I am looking forward to a Windows Phone version of their existing apps and I’m sure others do as well. So companies get a smattering of requests from some users here and there.
Just wondering if perhaps we focus on one or a few particular apps at a time with many people emailing, tweeting, comments on Facebook etc in a sustained way to let them see that there is actual interest from a large number of users in the Windows Phone community. Who knows, maybe if there is enough noise, some of them will rethink their stand.
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but seemed like good place to see what people think.
Thoughts?
Bad idea. Software business works by different way. No one cares about your tweets or fb posts or forum noise - it's just a children game.
I agree that it may not make a difference, however companies often do actually listen to what people are saying. If it sounds like there is a demand, some companies who have been on the fence, may well pull the trigger and make something happen.
I've had luck getting companies to do things when I ask publicly that they wouldn't do when I asked privately. So it seems like getting more people asking publicly may well help in some instances.
willp2 said:
I agree that it may not make a difference, however companies often do actually listen to what people are saying. If it sounds like there is a demand, some companies who have been on the fence, may well pull the trigger and make something happen.
I've had luck getting companies to do things when I ask publicly that they wouldn't do when I asked privately. So it seems like getting more people asking publicly may well help in some instances.
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Other than XDA, if you also post this on WPCentral forum, you will get much much much better and enthusiastic response for such requests. There is a list of app-requests somwhere in this forum too, if you wanted a place to pick apps-in-demand from.
I'm afraid you are mistaken. Companies are "listening" their marketing stuff, investors and personal CEO/chairman opinions. Neither facebook posts nor tweets can change company budget, marketing strategy or development roadmap. In fact, the most companies are controlled by the intelligent and informed people, so you may be sure they already knew about WP7 platform
P.S. Let me guess: you've never worked in software industry, don't you?
Thanks for the comments on WPCentral forum, good point. More regular users over there.
sensboston - You made my point exactly. Companies are listening to marketing staff, investors and personal CEO/chairman opinions. Those people, especially the marketing types pay attention to what the outside world is saying. If they see noise about a particular topic, it gets their attention.
For instance, if that company releases a new version of an app that has big problems, they'll hear about it first from all those social sources and they will generally try to react quickly to quite down the noise.
Not that it matters or even relevant to what I'm talking about here, but I've been in the software industry for over 20 years.
willp2 said:
For instance, if that company releases a new version of an app that has big problems, they'll hear about it first from all those social sources and they will generally try to react quickly to quite down the noise.
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It's a completely different case. Yes, I agree - huge noise/rumors about critical bug in popular app/software can push (some) companies to force fix or workaround immediately (good example is a Nokia representatives, who's - I believe - are monitoring XDA forums daily)
But porting app to the different platform (especially to WP7!) is very complicated. Most primary titles are written on C++ and uses native code/API calls. "Porting" C++ code to C#/Silverlight isn't just "porting"; it's much more close to complete rewrite. Also WP7 platform support means an additional tier of Q&A and etc. and so on (if you are really worked more than 20 years in industry you can easily extend these requirements).
100 or even 1000 facebook posts and forum requests can't show you a real app demand but statistics can. Unfortunately WP7 market share currently is too small (at the end of 2011 it was about 2%).
I thought there was a similar thread already, but if not then perhaps we can do that. I heard a company saying, they'll port it to windows phone if they enough demands.
I do get that it's not a trivial task.
Again I was really just getting at the many companies who are already considering moving to Windows Phone but are on the fence.
As we know more and more apps are being ported every week so many companies already have been thinking about, planning or are already doing it. In some cases a little public pressure may at least confirm to them that people are interested and perhaps move things along.
lamborg - sorry if someone else already brought this up in another thread, I did search around first.
willp2 said:
I do get that it's not a trivial task.
Again I was really just getting at the many companies who are already considering moving to Windows Phone but are on the fence.
As we know more and more apps are being ported every week so many companies already have been thinking about, planning or are already doing it. In some cases a little public pressure may at least confirm to them that people are interested and perhaps move things along.
lamborg - sorry if someone else already brought this up in another thread, I did search around first.
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I am not sure either but I think I have seen a similar thread, Anyway, if that cannot be found.
BTW it was I think Draw Something which said about the enough demand.
Maybe try crowd funding
Maybe this is an area where crowd funding could help.
I mean, people can make noise about want for a particular WP7 app as much as they like, but at the end of the day somebody has to pay for development, in some way, either directly or indirectly.
A successful crowd funding campaign for an app would probably prove much more that there really is demand than just so many Facebook postings.
Of course there is also the danger that such a campaign fails miserably and shows that there isn't real demand, just a very vocal but small minority wanting the app...
rbrunner7 said:
Maybe this is an area where crowd funding could help.
I mean, people can make noise about want for a particular WP7 app as much as they like, but at the end of the day somebody has to pay for development, in some way, either directly or indirectly.
A successful crowd funding campaign for an app would probably prove much more that there really is demand than just so many Facebook postings.
Of course there is also the danger that such a campaign fails miserably and shows that there isn't real demand, just a very vocal but small minority wanting the app...
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Guarantee this would not get noticed. Most users on the site don't even donate to the devs that post apps here that they use, let alone donate to some fund for the possibility of an app being ported.
Standard contractor rates for a software engineer are about $100 to $150 per hour. Salaried devs make less, but the cost is close to the same for companies because of benefits packages. So, 1 day of dev time for 1 developer is going to cost around $1000. My guess is a crowd fund would not even reach $100. But even if $10000 were collected, that would only cover a team of 5 for 2 days. And, 5 days for 20 business days would cost $100000. And this is is exactly why companies have been slow to bring apps over. It's expensive.
The other aspect is that although the syntax is similar in C#, Java, and C++; there are enough differences to make it less than a simple task to just switch over. Most devs with experience have been doing either C# or Java or C++. Most have not been doing all 3. This means paying money and taking time to get the existing devs trained or hire additional devs and transfering domain knowledge to them. Both have costs. (Note: iPhone is Objective C, which is different, but also has similarities. Same issues though)
Many companies just don't have the resources to spend when the return on investment is not short term. Long term as more consumers buy Windows Phones, it will be more economically viable for companies to invest in porting the applications.
JVH3 said:
Guarantee this would not get noticed. Most users on the site don't even donate to the devs that post apps here that they use
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He-he... Most users on the site are too lazy, greedy and irresponsible not even for donation but just for vote and review published here on XDA apps And some are so ungrateful that they forget just to say "Thanks"... Don't tell me about donations: I've collected money for Cotulla, for the Samsung's first freedom ROM for WP7... From hundreds of Focus owners here only 13 or 14 people are donated.
As for your arguments: it's 100% true for an adult professionals but of course not for 12-14 years old teens who "has over 20 years of software industry experience"
Yeah, I am myself a professional developer at day time, and I know how much it costs my company to employ me
But still, I think not all hope is lost. Some people may read this thread and just maybe change their attitude against devs that offer "free" things a little to the better - good that we talked about it, then!
And as I program in my free time anyway, just for fun, even a crowdsourced 1000 dollars could nudge me in a direction that I would not take otherwise, and people get the app they like. Of course only if the right APIs and server permissions are there to build it in the first place which of course is not always the case - many apps can only be built by the companies who own the corresponding server infrastructure.
rbrunner7 said:
Yeah, I am myself a professional developer at day time, and I know how much it costs my company to employ me
But still, I think not all hope is lost. Some people may read this thread and just maybe change their attitude against devs that offer "free" things a little to the better - good that we talked about it, then!
And as I program in my free time anyway, just for fun, even a crowdsourced 1000 dollars could nudge me in a direction that I would not take otherwise, and people get the app they like. Of course only if the right APIs and server permissions are there to build it in the first place which of course is not always the case - many apps can only be built by the companies who own the corresponding server infrastructure.
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Not to be discouraging, but it is pretty unlikely to get $1000 in donation from users here. It you look at the weather city editor that I wrote (link to thread in signature) for Windows Mobile, I got maybe close to $500 in donations from the time I created it through the entire time I worked on it, supported it, and enhanced it. I created it because I needed it and turned it into more than I needed so others could easily use it. The donations came from maybe 20 to 30 users. It was downloaded by well over 10000 users.
If looking for money as the reward, you are much better off paying Microsoft the $100 and putting the app on the marketplace and charging a dollar or making it be ad supported.
You'll still get respect for making cool things and posting them here, but it's not going to make you rich. It's a great place to learn and get some experience making apps though. Lots of people are willing to help if you get stuck on something.
It's a nice thought but, in reality it wont work
I thought about doing this too...
If you got everyone to attempt to do it, it might but, if you only get 50 people to do it(and that would be a lot in a fourm to request something they might not be interested in) that is a little bit compared to their marketplace with iOS or Android.
I personally really want Cut the Rope but, after posting a handfull of times on their facebook page and even emailing customer service, no luck
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
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Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
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wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
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Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore
Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
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No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
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My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?
lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
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I will check it in next week
The nvidia shield tv, the most powerful android device available, which has root, twrp, and custom roms available, along with tons of support keeps failing to get its own proper forum. The discussion page we currently have is unacceptable. There is tons of people doing development on other sites as well that have no proper place to post it. Please everyone, take a few minutes a day, and request that we get a proper forum added for this device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1660354
I agree. Thank you for taking the time to remind us about this.
More than anything, this device is missing developer support. It seems that a lot of people didnt want to see this happen. Google for one, with the restrictive OS, how easy it could have been to include an option to switch between regular Android and the mode thats been stripped of or had so many classic Android functions hidden. It blows my mind the hdmi blocks, drm, and other capabilities that get removed for the sole purpose of corporate greed. I know I'm not supposed to rant here, so consider this a rally to Nvidia TV owners to let others know how awesome of a device this could be and so hopefully the user/developer base can grow and get some proper treatment from the cable companies and others who refuse to support powerful devices like this
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Why do other Android TV devices have a proper forum then? Maybe devs would take the device seriously, if XDA took the device seriously. I would understand that argument if it wasn't proven to be untrue with the various other forums that have been created for other tv boxes.
- Nexus Player (Android TV)
- Amazon Fire TV (Fire OS - Even more limited than Android TV)
- Mad Catz Mojo
- Ouya
Just to name a few...
I'm not trying to start a problem. It just seems like we're presented with a different argument ever other day stating why the device doesn't have or deserve a proper forum. Not too long ago, the argument was the lack of interest. Then it was the lack of development, even though we currently have custom AOSP and CyanogenMod ports, Root, TWRP and Ubuntu.
If you search for the device in the device search, you will find not one, but two separate "places" to create topics for this device. One isn't a forum. It's just a list of threads that use the shield-tv tag. If a thread is created here, it will actually post in the Android Development and Hacking > Miscellaneous Android Development forum.
The other is a sub-forum of Android TV and Stick Computers. It isn't a proper forum and it is also buried. The device isn't listed in devdb, so there's no way to add projects.
There is active interest in the device and there are a ton of users. At the moment we're using nVidia's website/forums, but we'd prefer to use XDA. Why not give in to demand? You could make a lot of XDA users happy.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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The joke is on you and I don't care that my response will get on your nerves. You were better off keeping it hush hush than to fail at manipulative excuses.
zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
@ 1. So just because the shield is tied to a wallsocket and uses an external screen it is not entitled to a forum? That's a rather peculiar argument....?
@ 2. I don't think you understand the Nvidia Shield Android TV, it is just as moddable as any Android device...
And last but certainly not least you claim people don't have interest while we have proved this by the community development for the device so far. BTW the interest in the device might be bigger than you think. For instance on the Nvidia forums there are already over 10k comments in the shield tv subsection, this is over 25% of the shield portable's total comments and over 20% of the shield tablet's total comment. Considering the device is only available for a short period and is only available in the US, this means public interest is huge!
So in other words, please come up with better arguments or just add one device forum, how much harm can it possibly do?
That would be a game changer for this thing.... ... I'm in!!!!!!!!!!
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
didn't know..
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
They have proper forums for the Moto 360! A watch forum??? Give me a break. Android wear is even more restrictive then Android TV!
I think XDA admins have a bug up there arse about Nvidia. Pure and simple. If it was AMD they would already have everything.
Stop defending them.
I too, would like to register my interest for such a forum.
While I am a newcomer, I would like to register my support for this movement too. It would be nice to have singular outlet to use.
zizika said:
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
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XDA is a privately owned, membership based site.... Just to correct you.
And the Admin here decide things like forum sections.
Perhaps they'll add a full section, perhaps not. Getting angry about it isn't going to help at all.
As said, if developers are actually holding back work because of a lack of a full forum, they are only making you guys suffer. Seems a little backwards.
Let's remain respectful everyone, please.
Darth
Forum Moderator
The Nexus Q has it's own forum here and NOT the Nvidia Shield Console? That's just stupid.
zelendel said:
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
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I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing software for proprietary devices. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours" and all the drivers and images are provided on their developer website so.... I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a major shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons. Im surprised
ElwOOd_CbGp said:
I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing proprietary processors. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours". I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons and Im surprised
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And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
zelendel said:
And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
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All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
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loonix said:
All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
,
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More then you think. Why do you think Qualcomm devices are so popular among modders? Because there is all the proper documentation for working with the chip. Same reason that mediatech and exynos chip are not popular. As for unlocking the bootloader. Heck most oem show you how to do it.
As for CM. I would wish that on my worst enemy.
Now if people want to develop for it then do it. Having a forum or not will not bring more or less development.
I'm amazed that this is even an argument. A forum that generates revenues from page views doesn't want its users to have a place to view one of it's valued devices. Baffling really. Someone definitely is bitter about something. What harm is there in creating a section?