Related
The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
These needs are almost already met with my iPhone. Being a avid windows 7 and windows media center user I can see a huge advantage of adopting WP7. Devs, can u tell me how many features I can check off this list? I know some are possible with 6.x already. Feel free to add to this list for wanted features that are out of the norm.
Also I don't think I like the idea of ROM cooking. I might not understand it though, since ROM means read only memory does it mean that u have to modify your devices os before you install it in your phone? I don't like that at all. I want to be able to modify my os at anytime in explorer like u can with windows 7.
App pirating...oh yeah that's a feature that will be good for the development of the platform. Seesh, people work hard on stuff and generally charge reasonable prices to keep themselves afloat and you demand app pirating!? Dear Microsoft please allow rpoot access to the device so people can find work arounds and steal your client's good work. That's exactly the attitude which stops Microsoft from allowing root access, because its waaaaay to easy to pirate then.
What we really need is a good ad revenue generator (ie Google ads, iAds) so that innovation can be driven by the financial incentive and these guys who dev can get some well earned cash.
Anyways, whats your job? Would you like it if I asked for yur services and then you didn't get paid?
Sorry grouchy this morning. #Rant
Yea. $400 for a phone is fine but then when asked to pay $3 for an app you'll use all the time it's just too much? :facepalm:
......why the hell does a mobile browser need a download manager?
Thats what the iPhone needs to be able to download mp3s or docs from safari. I just want the ability to download a mp3 from the net in the brower and have it show up in my zune media player. The iphone requires a few jailbroken apps to achieve this at the moment.
that's native in the zune music player already you know...
1. Rooted device.
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I thought rooting was only used for android. But as far as the unlocking thing, it is device dependent. Several developers are working on finding means to give developers more freedom as well as users with wp7. but it is a work in progress and takes time.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
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what
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
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Does this really have to be said? I mean are you looking for an application that will allow user customization of the start menu like winterboard? If so see post 1. to be frank the theming for wp7 so far is okay but nothing as open as windows mobile. But again we have no idea what the device can really do. It is based on what is found and the extent of what development will lead to.
But if you want winterboard...well get the phone that has it
4. DLNA in all forms.
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Again unsure if wp7 can do that. It may be able to but no idea. We don't know
5. True windows live Mesh.
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Isn't live mesh going to be gone soon?
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
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I dunno if that's really necessary. There may be a program for it most likely. But I don't think its needed in first generation wp7 devices. Heck I much prefer to just drag and drop my files or sync with zune anyway...
7. Push everything.
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Not everything has to be push...I think that as far as notification goes push may be a hindrance. I do prefer the old system though
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
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yeah this is a fail...
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
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That is developer dependent and its tough to say what the emulation scene will be like...
10. IE download manager.
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Why!? Seriously why!? sorry but that's retarded. I mean how much are you downloading on your phone right now to substantiate a feature like that. remember, wp is the de emphasis of the phone being a computer but performing some basic tasks like all smart phones can do in a different way.
11. Video chat.
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It could be a developer making something for that. No one knows
As for the things being met for your iphone, keep your iphone =) if you honestly are looking for information on a platform that isn't released, wait a year until wp7 has some options available...
and for the point of not liking rom cooking, do you even know the process? No you don't. May wanna read up on it...
...
IMHO, almost everything you listed I know personally I won't be using my phone for that. I don't mind media centric information but there is overload. For suiting my needs (clinical psychology) I may need to browse some psychology databases, a dedicated pdf reader, an ebook reader, the ability to record notes from class, patient intake, and so on. But again specifics differ according to user of the device.
Thanks for the info domineus, what I mean by "Rooted windows share Local network access." is the abiltiy for my phone's whole file system to show up when I click on the network in explorer on one of the PCs in my house. The iPhone does this with ubuntu when it is jailbroken right now. Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?
As far as the download manager thing goes. I don't know what u use your phone for but I am constantly getting new mp3s, pics, video, and docs offline everyday. The itunes library on the phone is encrypted right now so u can't just drop and drag in iFile to add to the itunes library. Also the default safari you can't save target as to get the file. I think you can with windows mobile 6.x though, I did it at work once. Half the time I'm not around a pc to sync anyways, I feel like tethered syncing is a chore. I am pretty sure you can't "save target as" in IE with the WP7 emulator.
Yeah Ive decided....you should get the iPhone...Im pretty happy to see how the community goes but for you to make demands a lot of which are stupid or overly tailored to your specific needs and hence serve no purpose on a public forum, well thats pretty darn silly.
gotta agree its a bit solipsistic
especially on a platform that is newly developed and IMHO we have no idea how its going to develop or the clientele requirements
Skatingn330 said:
[...]Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?[...]
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Uhm, telnet? Yes, through 3rdparty apps of course. Telnet is a very simple thing to use, but you still need somewhere to telnet TO and something responding on the other end (on your computer(s)). So, the "feature" you want is not something that is related to the device, but rather something you need to setup on your LAN. You would only need a telnetapp on your device
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
Regarding the file-sharing (SMB) you spoke of. Even if we disregard the fact that SMB is not a very secure protocol, the main thing that speaks against that MS would incorporate such a feature is... since MS doesnt even provide filesystem-access ON the device, why should they do it through SMB? I am pretty sure you can forget that one, at least out-of-the-box, maybe if its unlocked and through some obscure 3rdpartyapp.
Just my two cents...
Moving to general.
Skatingn330 said:
The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Might happen, but a strange requirement
2. Don't understand this one?
3. You're not getting this, the phone don't have a traditional filesystem.
3_. You're not getting this either.
4. Microsoft is a promoter of DLNA
5. It's being merged to SkyDrive, and is supported at launch
6. Won't be possible with the explorer, but it will with the Zune desktop client.
7. The notification-system is based on push.
8. Microsoft is a large company with a long history of anti-piracy. You'll might get in trouble here
9. Write some XNA wrapper for it then!
10. I'd suspect there will be a form of management of downloads and downloaded files.
11. None of the 1. generation phones have a camera on the front side, so you'll have to wait. But software-wise it's supported from day one.
smuppy said:
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
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Im pretty new to networking but wouldnt using a VPN serve the purpose of what he is wanting? Im not familiar with telnet hardly at all (expect for watching star wars episode 4 that i stumbled across google, haha) but it sounds like a VPN would do what hes looking for. Which WM, the iphone (from what i understand anyways), and im hoping WP7 does. Plus its much MUCH more secure then telnet in even its most basic form of PPTP.
Has anyone out there heard of any apps for WinRT that enable you to use the Surface or other RT tab as a second monitor via wifi? I'm thinking along the lines of DiplayLink, Air Display, MaxiVista, etc. for iPad.
I really need something like this, and if no one else is doing it, I'm going to have to put my dev shoes back on and write one. I can't beleive that this hasn't been done yet, but maybe there are some barriers on the WinRT OS side that make this tougher than I'm assuming?
Cheers.
jasonk910 said:
Has anyone out there heard of any apps for WinRT that enable you to use the Surface or other RT tab as a second monitor via wifi? I'm thinking along the lines of DiplayLink, Air Display, MaxiVista, etc. for iPad.
I really need something like this, and if no one else is doing it, I'm going to have to put my dev shoes back on and write one. I can't beleive that this hasn't been done yet, but maybe there are some barriers on the WinRT OS side that make this tougher than I'm assuming?
Cheers.
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Click to collapse
Please do shout if you find one - I could use that as well
//M
Id pay at least 10$ for this app- and im sure that a lot of others would be willing to do the same. Allow me to use my ipad as a 2nd monitor with my Surface - Id pay 20$
You should be able to install a virtual graphics card (similar to http://www.zoneos.com/zonescreen.htm) and then extend the virtual display it gives you over VNC to the VNC client on Windows RT.
I haven't tried/played with that, though.
netham45 said:
You should be able to install a virtual graphics card (similar to http://www.zoneos.com/zonescreen.htm) and then extend the virtual display it gives you over VNC to the VNC client on Windows RT.
I haven't tried/played with that, though.
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This looks intriguing - but the warnings about windows 7 blue screen have me a little worried to even attempt to use it using windows 8. Id love to hear if this works - Im not willing to be the guinea pig - I had enough problems getting windows 8 to work on my Thinkpad with unsupported AMD ATI graphics drivers. As it is - I lost all of my power settings, and have no idea how to get them back - Ive seen a forum post recommend a repair installation of windows 8, but I am not confident. I have everything working, all of my software works, my RDP works, I just don't want to screw it up now.
jasonk910 said:
Has anyone out there heard of any apps for WinRT that enable you to use the Surface or other RT tab as a second monitor via wifi? I'm thinking along the lines of DiplayLink, Air Display, MaxiVista, etc. for iPad.
I really need something like this, and if no one else is doing it, I'm going to have to put my dev shoes back on and write one. I can't beleive that this hasn't been done yet, but maybe there are some barriers on the WinRT OS side that make this tougher than I'm assuming?
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have searched google and found something for code:
1.DXGI :hardware acceleratedI desktop duplication on windows 8.its really fast.http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowsdesktop/Desktop-Duplication-Sample-da4c696a
2.hardware acceleratedI media foundation encoder.
3.hardware acceleratedI media foundation decoder and renderer.
I know little code and I hope you can write one.that will be great.
I would love to have this option as well. Is there a way to do it via the hdmi? My pc has hdmi and vga out. I have a monitor hooked up through vga. So would I be able to put the surface in the hdmi spot or is the mini on the surface just out not in?
Droopydroors said:
I would love to have this option as well. Is there a way to do it via the hdmi? My pc has hdmi and vga out. I have a monitor hooked up through vga. So would I be able to put the surface in the hdmi spot or is the mini on the surface just out not in?
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It's out only
Seriously need this. I would pay good $$ for an app like this. Please let us know if you make one or find one.
Hi all
I have purchased a windows Rt and love it. The only thing I can't figure out is I can't access my dvr cameras though internet explorer on my device through my ip address and port number. I can view it on my desktop pc.
Is there any app or way I can view my dvr host on windows rt??
steve.zdravko said:
Hi all
I have purchased a windows Rt and love it. The only thing I can't figure out is I can't access my dvr cameras though internet explorer on my device through my ip address and port number. I can view it on my desktop pc.
Is there any app or way I can view my dvr host on windows rt??
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BUMP
How is the DVR content presented? If it's HTML(5), that should be no problem at all, so it's probably not. The next most likely is Flash, which RT supports but which may not work when specifying an IP address. You could try using the registry tweak that was previously required for Flash on unknown sites (see the EnableFlash script in my signature). If it's a Java applet, you're screwed (in more ways than one; if you've had the Java browser plugin enabled on your home PC for the last few months, there's an excellent chance that your machine has been infected through it; that thing has atrocious security bugs). If it's some other third-party plugin, for example an ActiveX control from the DVR manufacturer, it's probably not going to work on RT just because RT run on ARM chips and typical ActiveX controls are compiled for x86 (it's possible to make ARM ActiveX, but nobody does and you'd need to "jailbreak" the device before installing the plugin anyhow).
GoodDayToDie said:
How is the DVR content presented? If it's HTML(5), that should be no problem at all, so it's probably not. The next most likely is Flash, which RT supports but which may not work when specifying an IP address. You could try using the registry tweak that was previously required for Flash on unknown sites (see the EnableFlash script in my signature). If it's a Java applet, you're screwed (in more ways than one; if you've had the Java browser plugin enabled on your home PC for the last few months, there's an excellent chance that your machine has been infected through it; that thing has atrocious security bugs). If it's some other third-party plugin, for example an ActiveX control from the DVR manufacturer, it's probably not going to work on RT just because RT run on ARM chips and typical ActiveX controls are compiled for x86 (it's possible to make ARM ActiveX, but nobody does and you'd need to "jailbreak" the device before installing the plugin anyhow).
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The DVR is set up with its own ip and port forwarding number, and that how I connect to it from other desktop PC's. Or it gives me an option to view it through a program called CMS lite which the Win RT doesn't allow me the download. I have jailbroken my RT as well.
What happens when you connect to that IP and port on your RT device? What do you see in the browser (if anything)? Does it connect, or does it say it couldn't find the site? You haven't actually explained the problem very well at all, even to the point of saying what device it is. We probably don't have your exact setup at home, so you'll need to be very precise describing it so that we know how to fix it.
You also didn't answer my question in the previous post. How is the content normally presented? Flash or HTML5 should be fine, but *might* take some tweaking. Java or a plugin are unlikely to work, although I suppose it's possible that the x86 emulator could be made to work with a plugin.
For that matter, have you tried the x86 emulator with your CMS Lite program? It's unlikely to work, but worth a shot.
GoodDayToDie said:
What happens when you connect to that IP and port on your RT device? What do you see in the browser (if anything)? Does it connect, or does it say it couldn't find the site? You haven't actually explained the problem very well at all, even to the point of saying what device it is. We probably don't have your exact setup at home, so you'll need to be very precise describing it so that we know how to fix it.
You also didn't answer my question in the previous post. How is the content normally presented? Flash or HTML5 should be fine, but *might* take some tweaking. Java or a plugin are unlikely to work, although I suppose it's possible that the x86 emulator could be made to work with a plugin.
For that matter, have you tried the x86 emulator with your CMS Lite program? It's unlikely to work, but worth a shot.
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my device is a windows rt surface. when I open internet explorer and type in my ip and port number in the search engine it comes up with my login and password which I type in. after that the screen comes to a blank white screen which gives me the option. Webserver or CMS lite setup I always view them from webserver. Once I click webserver the screen just says on a blank white screen.
as for how the content present normally im not really sure.
A simple way to tell is to load the page in a desktop browser where it works, then right-click the video and see what menu comes up. If it's the Flashplayer menu, that's something that RT can handle. If it's something else (Silverlight or Java or a custom ActiveX), that may not be possible. Another way to tell would be to save that blank page to a file (I believe Ctrl+S works for this, at least on the desktop mode of IE, or you can do it from the Tools->File menu, or the File menu on the menu bar that is shown when you tap Alt). Send or post the HTML somewhere that we can read it, and we can tell you what it will take to view the page.
another question.. im still new to the windows rt group I have jail broken the RT surface. Is there any torrent client for downloads.
I wanna download movies from a website. thanks
Free Download Manager (it is in the ported apps thread) can be used as a torrent client. However discussion of piracy is prohibited so might want to zip it on the movies part.
Monotorrent was attempted on RT but I think ended up being buggy.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Free Download Manager (it is in the ported apps thread) can be used as a torrent client. However discussion of piracy is prohibited so might want to zip it on the movies part.
Monotorrent was attempted on RT but I think ended up being buggy.
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can u please send me the link
Read the forum rules, especially the first one. Then, read my signature. I don't mind helping people find obscure stuff, but this does not qualify. Please put forth at least a little effort on your own part...
I shouldn't have to share a link having told you where it is. Its easy to find, a) its in the list of ported applications in the RT development and hacking section. b) it has its own thread in that same section. c) it is listed on google. d) it is listed on forum search.
I went on miniclips.com and none of those flash games work. I have 8.1 preview and other flash sites work well. How can I run flash games on my surface rt.
Care to be even vaguely more specific than "none of those flash games work"? Like, what actually happens? Also, did you try any *other* flash game sites, or just that one?
It is not our job to get the info we need in order to help you ourselves. In fact, it's not our job to help you at all. If you want help for something like this (i.e. your personal problem), don't make us go do a bunch of work.
Microsoft do still have a blacklist in place for sites which are known to not work well or contain malware (which miniclip has had before).
GoodDayToDie said:
Care to be even vaguely more specific than "none of those flash games work"? Like, what actually happens? Also, did you try any *other* flash game sites, or just that one?
It is not our job to get the info we need in order to help you ourselves. In fact, it's not our job to help you at all. If you want help for something like this (i.e. your personal problem), don't make us go do a bunch of work.
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Okay, on minicips and other flash sites, I get this error "This game cannot be played on this computer. Supported Platforms: Windows and OSX "
Its not only miniclips its an array of flash sites. Try searching robot rage into google and try to play it. The sites that host that game would just give you that error. Please try it on your rt.
malberti1993 said:
Okay, on minicips and other flash sites, I get this error "This game cannot be played on this computer. Supported Platforms: Windows and OSX "
Its not only miniclips its an array of flash sites. Try searching robot rage into google and try to play it. The sites that host that game would just give you that error. Please try it on your rt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it looks like Robot Rage on miniclip.com and gameflare.com require the unity web player, so it looks like it isn't a flash game. My 8.0 RT doesn't know what to do with the ".application" file it asks to download, which probably is compiled for x86 anyway. If other games on miniclip.com use the same thing then that would explain it. Not sure what is up with it on gamezhero.com. Looks like there is a facebook version... have you tried that version? All the other facebook games I've ever tried used flash, so maybe the facebook version of this one will too... I can't believe I'm sort of recommending a facebook game...
malberti1993 said:
Okay, on minicips and other flash sites, I get this error "This game cannot be played on this computer. Supported Platforms: Windows and OSX "
Its not only miniclips its an array of flash sites. Try searching robot rage into google and try to play it. The sites that host that game would just give you that error. Please try it on your rt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Robot rage isn't flash....
8 Ball Pool Multiplayer at miniclip.com works fine for me in RT, so not all games there fail to work. As mentioned, Robot Rage and some other games use a web player called Unity 3D, which is only for Windows (x86/x64) and OS X (as it says when you try to play them), so there's nothing that you can do about that, other than buy a Surface Pro.
Happy wheels work fine for me.. There'd one flash game for ya
Sent from my 4.3-Powered Galaxy S Blaze
Also an FYI, don't use the tile version of IE, use the desktop version as it works way better....the tile version of IE is more finicky!
be_man36 said:
Also an FYI, don't use the tile version of IE, use the desktop version as it works way better....the tile version of IE is more finicky!
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Click to collapse
I don't really use the metro version of IE to browse, I'm used to the desktop version and stick with that.
In all most flash games lag. Is there a way to combat that?
Thanks
malberti1993 said:
I don't really use the metro version of IE to browse, I'm used to the desktop version and stick with that.
In all most flash games lag. Is there a way to combat that?
Thanks
Click to expand...
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If the game has any settings available try and turn fancy effects and things off. One of the reasons that flash wasn't always available under the old whitelist rules for windows RT was because flash on an RT tablets ARM processor just isn't as quick as on an x86 processor in a normal windows PC, some flash games lag on intel atom processors which still outperform the ARM platform for flash performance. Another reason was flash utilities often not playing nicely with touch. Now microsoft have lifted the whitelist and switched to a blacklist for websites which are known to be malicious instead.
Yeah... frankly, the only solution for the lag (short of some kind of optimizing of the Flashplayer which we obviously cannot do) is to use a faster CPU than 1.3GHz ARM. Yes, it's quad-core, but Flash doesn't really make good use of that (everything *else* gets shoved to the other cores, but the applet itself still runs on just one) and clock-for-clock, ARM is less powerful than any modern x86.
be_man36 said:
Also an FYI, don't use the tile version of IE, use the desktop version as it works way better....the tile version of IE is more finicky!
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Click to collapse
FWIW, it seems to me that this has been greatly improved in IE11 (which comes with Windows 8.1). The Metro and desktop versions seem rather identical to me in performance and compatibility. In one stark case, I could view a javascript-based subscriber area of a local website in IE10's desktop mode, but not in its Metro mode. Now, in IE11, I can view it in both, and the performance feels the same. I haven't done a whole lot of browsing, but, so far, I haven't yet come across a site that's been more usable in IE11's desktop mode than in Metro mode. Others may have different experiences, but that's been mine... so far.
Osprey00 said:
I could view a java-based subscriber area.
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Java and javascript are not one and the same, their similarity ends at the name. Remember that in future. Windows RT + internet explorer flat out do not support java.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Java and javascript are not one and the same, their similarity ends at the name. Remember that in future. Windows RT + internet explorer flat out do not support java.
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I know that. I meant javascript. Sometimes people who know better misspeak and would appreciate not being talked down to. Remember that in the future.
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
Deusdies said:
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if its for your criteria of a full Desktop you are right - you can't do this with Windows RT, thus with no RT tablet. But as im using my Surface as a thin client, remoting my home pc or my server for all the stuff i can't do on my tablet it's quite wonderful. And the Windows Store has been incresing ever since, last week i reset me tablet and did some serious store browsing to get up to date with available apps and i probably couldn't find anthing that's not there - development environment and compilers excluded of course. But as far as i can see - not knowing your area of expertise - there is everything you would need to get a basic start, though some apps will cost a dollar/euro or two. Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
As for the Nokia 2520, it definitely looks good! Haven't actually seen this one come up, looks promising.
To sum it up: if what you like is the new Modern UI interface you can definitely go with an RT tablet for there are plenty of apps available. For the desktop that's a whole other story, as I've described (jailbreak/ported apps) - if you are willing to compromise, you will get another added benefit from this cool piece of hard- and software.
The decision which RT tablet to use should be yours i guess, there are quite a few out there, but in a matter of usability I deem them all to work the same.
Greetings,
Fasin
The app market you can check out on your full windows 8 machine no problem. I do personally think its a bit limited.
Windows RT is for all intents and purposes windows 8 running on ARM instead of x86 processors. This does bring a few limitations, and then microsoft impose 2 more.
ARM and x86 processors are rather obviously not compatible. x86 programs cannot run on ARM and vice versa normally (you could emulate an ARM CPU on x86 and vice versa but thats slow).
Most "metro" apps are compiled in both ARM and x86 versions. There are a few which are not for whatever reason. But most should be available in both stores. The vast majority of metro apps use C# or VB.net anyway which dont output native ARM or x86 machine code and instead use .NET bytecode (the .NET runtime is present on both windows 8 and windows RT). VLC is the only major exception I can think of right now, although that hasn't been publicly released yet and ARM is planned (right now its x86 only).
Just about all desktop software for windows is x86. It won't run on ARM. If its open source it may be portable however the only compiler capable of targetting Windows RT is MSVC whereas alot of software can only be built in alternative compilers. There is a list (already linked in the post above) of software which people have managed to recompile for Windows RT.
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
Whether the RT is suitable or not depends on your needs. If all your going to do is surf the web, well its full blown internet explorer 11 not some sucky mobile browser, it even has flash (but not java, which you should not confuse for javascript. However iOS and android dont have java either).
You get full RDP support in windows RT. So you can view the screen of and interact with your real windows 8 desktop remotely on the tablet. In the ported apps section for jailbroken devices there is also VNC which does the same thing but is cross platform unlike RDP which is supposed to just be windows (however there is an RDP server for linux too so if you have a linux machine, install the RDP server, remote access it on non jailbroken RT device no problem).
You get microsoft office. Its missing plugins and macros. But otherwise, its a full office suite. Its more than android or iOS have.
Being close enough to normal windows, you get a full file browser which supports network mapped drives and USB etc as you do on your desktop. Android can have file browsers, but they usually arent as good as a desktop file browser. iOS doesnt have a file browser at all.
With the file browser you have support for USB storage. Got some photos on a memory stick, plug it in, you can view them. iOS cannot do this. Some android phones can, some can't (your LG should be able to).
True there are not as many apps as iOS or android. But both iOS and android had low apps counts when they first released and according to what little public data there is, windows after 1 year is about on par with both android and iOS app counts after 1 year. It takes time (but will it take too long is a better question)
Thank you both very much. Very well thought out responses. I was debating between getting the Dell Venue 11 Pro (full Windows 8) or the Nokia 2520 being as that they're the same price, but I have honestly been convinced to get the RT version.
Fasin said:
Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
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Oh. My. Gott.
I had no idea that this even existed. I think this is pretty much what settles it - I'm definitely getting an RT. Notepad++? Python? 7-zip? Amazing! Vielen dank!
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
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You're right, that truly is an odd restriction. Perhaps they just want people to use Windows Store more and more? But from this thread it seems that Jailbreak "fixes" a lot of issues - and I didn't even know this existed until now (admittedly I wasn't into the Windows 8 on mobile devices a whole lot until now).
Yep, I think my only pseudo-concern is now gone. Thank you again both, and Nokia 2520 - here I come!
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
BestBuy will have Surface RT for $200 in Black Friday. I'd like to buy one since it is such cheap and I can play with some ARM Win32 programs.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
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I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
I've just read Engadget's review of Nokia 2520, which is overall positive. But I thought it would be much better than the Surface 2, and apparently (according to their review), it isn't. In fact, I thought it will have a better battery life, while in fact it has worse.
As a student I also get a 10% discount on Surface only, and I have a $25 Microsoft Store gift card that I got eons ago, so that brings the total cost for a Surface 2 down to ~$370, which is phenomenal.
It's still in between Nokia 2520 and Surface 2...
Deusdies said:
I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
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To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
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I do program on a laptop with a 14" 1366*768 display. I have used much higher resolution displays though and it is certainly alot better.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
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Yep... I do all of my programming on a desktop. At work 3 monitors, at home 1, but 27". So, yes, tablet is just for movies, some games, etc.
It is possible to emulate some x86 programs on RT's ARM processor, however often it will be slow. Most desired programs won't run through emulation (including utorrent, VLC, Steam, etc)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
Rakeesh_j said:
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
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No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
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Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
Rakeesh_j said:
Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
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trying to start flamewars again...
SixSixSevenSeven said:
trying to start flamewars again...
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No, it's very much on topic. If the goal was to start a flame war, then the OP beat me to it a long time ago.
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
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Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
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I don't really see it that way. Just issue an 'oem unlock' command to the device and you're golden. RT devices however by design forbid doing anything like that.
That said, the ultimate limitation in RT comes from this: RT won't run any app unless MS explicitly greenlights it. A lot of the more interesting apps (to me anyways) are ones that companies like MS and in some circumstances even Google wish didn't exist at all, like ad blockers, being able to tether without carrier permission, etc. Even so, not all of these require root and there's nothing stopping you from using them on Android.
Rakeesh_j said:
Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
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Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
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Two things:
Comments I've heard from developers
And most importantly, Microsoft's own comments
SixSixSevenSeven said:
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
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That later bit is more of a reason to not want RT. Virtually every platform out there uses OpenGL. The number of devices that use directx exclusively make up such a small percentage of the marketplace that it almost may as well not even exist. Android wouldn't gain anything at all by having it (really, no developer out there has ever said "I'd port to Android if only it supported directx,") and it really hurts that RT/WP don't have it. For this reason, any developer who says that they'll only use DirectX is shooting themselves in the foot. Microsoft is doing exactly that - too many games developers said they probably wouldn't ever bother porting anything to RT/WP because they don't want to spend all of the money on porting because the revenue gained is almost guaranteed to not be worth it. Sure, some game engines now support it, but that doesn't solve the problem of backporting their own customizations and additions to the base engine.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
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That's probably because you missed the point entirely. It has nothing to do with whether or not battlefield is an FPS. The point is that I've seen web browsers do more impressive things than RT apps. Battlefield is merely an example of why even Chrome is more valuable to me than RT.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
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You aren't telling me anything new here. Microsoft has done something similar more than once and we've already seen the results: It'll just go derelict and then eventually deprecated but still kept around.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if MS created an app store for win32 apps similar to what apple is doing with OSX. Their current store model is just a flat out knockoff of the ios app model (contrast to the play store model where each publisher is at their own discretion, and some people still wonder why android/play is by far more popular than the rest) so they may as well go all the way with it.