Related
Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Do we really need this since it's a Li-ion battery? I know Ni-Mh and Ni-Cad has memory effect, but not on the Li-Ion battery.
I was just wondering the same thing today....simply because there seems to be several different methods to do it. Some say charge 8 hours, turn off, charge and hour, unplug, turn on charge 10 minutes. Then other methods say to do something different....be nice to have an app to walk you through different methods so you know step by step your doing it right
I calibrated mine last night and I'm going to get about 18 hours if not more from it....before yesterday I was getting 9.
The ONLY other different I did was make some profiles on CPU but I cant imagine it would make that much of a difference. I bet its a mix of both
deonjahy said:
Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is to funny I was just saying to my wife the other day that I should make one of these programs seeing that there are none already. I hate having to manually kill my battery every night before I charge it again.
Is it needed? It depends on your school of thought, some say yes, some say no. All I know is that on the few devices I have had in the past, if I constantly plug them in to "top them off" then the battery never ends up lasting very long after a few months of doing that. So I am a believer in killing the battery before charging on devices like these.
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
All the battery calibration tools, are basically deleting the file... right?
Is it that hard to boot into recovery and wipe battery stats?
deonjahy said:
Could someone please develop a good app that would enable the battery to be drained as much as possible and to charge slower so we could all properly calibrate our batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the second part has to do with hardware. The phones hardware just doesn't have trickle charge implemented and instead lets it drop back down to 90% then starts charging it again.
As for the second part, it came on our phones, even has a default widget. 4G
paulieb81 said:
That is to funny I was just saying to my wife the other day that I should make one of these programs seeing that there are none already. I hate having to manually kill my battery every night before I charge it again.
Is it needed? It depends on your school of thought, some say yes, some say no. All I know is that on the few devices I have had in the past, if I constantly plug them in to "top them off" then the battery never ends up lasting very long after a few months of doing that. So I am a believer in killing the battery before charging on devices like these.
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um... actually that is (by most accounts) bad for Li-Ion. You want to AVOID completely draining them. All of this stuff is more art than science, but I have way more often heard that completely draining LI batteries is bad. What kills them is the number of cycles they have been through (like -25 +25, -25 +25, -50 +50 would be a full cycle).
You do however want to give them a full up down cycle once in a while (maybe every 1-3 months) for calibration.
Then again, as I said, it is more art than science, and I have heard your method as being better, but the not draining argument seems to be the vast majority.
I'll try to do a little look-see and update this or repost if I find any stronger evidence.
the thing about my phone and battery that ALWAYS baffled me was i would plug it in at night be it at 10% or 22 i would leave plugged in while slept i would wake up unplug and look at battery percentage and it would be like 95.....no other phone has even unplugged and dropped 5 percent by doing nothing????
turn your brightness to 100% and change it so that it never turns off; use wifi tether and play a 720p movie at the same time; oc your kernel to it's highest stable frequency. it'll drain pretty quickly.
I know I might get flamed for this....
Apple suggests, with their laptops, to once a month or so, run the battery completely down. Then let the battery cool down for a little bit. Then give it a full, uninterrupted, overnight charge. I forget if they said to repeat this a second time, then you're good.
This is all from memory of me reading this a couple years ago or so, so our might not be verbatim. Their laptops use lithium ion technology...
(and they used to blow up and melt down too!) Lol!
Wrong word choice and misspelling courtesy of swype.
mykeldrip said:
the thing about my phone and battery that ALWAYS baffled me was i would plug it in at night be it at 10% or 22 i would leave plugged in while slept i would wake up unplug and look at battery percentage and it would be like 95.....no other phone has even unplugged and dropped 5 percent by doing nothing????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because the phone stops charging when it reaches 100%, and runs off of battery probably until it reaches in the low 90s, then charges again. You won't ever notice this because the light will always be green. However, you'll notice that unplugging it a few moments after it turns green, the battery will stay anywhere from 100%-98% for a while. At least on my phone it does.
Is there any way to make this program "auto run" during sleep so it can do everything it needs to do during the night charge (similar to quickpull for blackberry)
laydros said:
I think the second part has to do with hardware. The phones hardware just doesn't have trickle charge implemented and instead lets it drop back down to 90% then starts charging it again.
As for the second part, it came on our phones, even has a default widget. 4G
Um... actually that is (by most accounts) bad for Li-Ion. You want to AVOID completely draining them. All of this stuff is more art than science, but I have way more often heard that completely draining LI batteries is bad. What kills them is the number of cycles they have been through (like -25 +25, -25 +25, -50 +50 would be a full cycle).
You do however want to give them a full up down cycle once in a while (maybe every 1-3 months) for calibration.
Then again, as I said, it is more art than science, and I have heard your method as being better, but the not draining argument seems to be the vast majority.
I'll try to do a little look-see and update this or repost if I find any stronger evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am by no means an expert so if you find any reliable info on this and can link us to read, I would love to learn more. All I know is that it is commonly said to drain rechargeable batteries and that I have seen that topping them off very often does lead to battery life degradation.
Tyzing said:
Is there any way to make this program "auto run" during sleep so it can do everything it needs to do during the night charge (similar to quickpull for blackberry)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no need to fully drain the battery. Its purpose in calibration is to configure the software that is correlating voltage to percentage charged. That's all. Regarding the old Apple advice, that is doing the same thing. It will not affect the hardware.
Now, what WILL affect the hardware is charging itself. Every charge/discharge cycle will reduce the total capacity of the battery. This is why the EVO will not cycle on it's own until 10% discharged. It's improving the overall battery life by that restriction.
In short, you will save money overall by getting a higher capacity battery that you don't force to charge too often. Draining your battery does nothing but give you peace of mind and it only really needs recalibrating when it's total capacity has been reduced which isn't often. 3-6 months.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
herbthehammer said:
I know I might get flamed for this....
Apple suggests, with their laptops, to once a month or so, run the battery completely down. Then let the battery cool down for a little bit. Then give it a full, uninterrupted, overnight charge. I forget if they said to repeat this a second time, then you're good.
This is all from memory of me reading this a couple years ago or so, so our might not be verbatim. Their laptops use lithium ion technology...
(and they used to blow up and melt down too!) Lol!
Wrong word choice and misspelling courtesy of swype.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah except that's not a good idea, it will kill the weak cells.
I understand. Still think it would be useful if it would do the "juice until LED changes" method while sleeping though
paulieb81 said:
So the bottom line is if there is a desire for this, I may try to put an app together for it, as I know myself I am interested I just didn't think many others would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested!
Btw - what are the charging calibrations people are using? Are you seeing one working better than another?
Im a noob, so take what I say worth a grain of salt but yesterday I did the standard method where you fully charge...turn off...plug back in until led changes green and do it a few times.
I went from 9 hours to 17 hours with no other changes except a few profiles in setCPU.
I did this just last night so my results are fresh.
Tyzing said:
I calibrated mine last night and I'm going to get about 18 hours if not more from it....before yesterday I was getting 9.
The ONLY other different I did was make some profiles on CPU but I cant imagine it would make that much of a difference. I bet its a mix of both
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few SetCPU profiles is all it takes to see a dramatic increase in battery life, especially while screen off. If you disable it I bet whatever gain you think was from 'calibrating' it disappears.
Will "trickle-charge" kernels end up damaging our phones? *UPDATE: 8 CASUALTIES!*
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
UPDATES:
_______________________________________________________________
CASUALTY LIST (please PM me any casualties, the list seems to be growing in numbers rapidly)
_______________________________________________________________
Battery Emitting "Smoke" : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=904577
Battery Failure during Trickle Charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=900412
SBC killed my battery: http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery.html
MIUI + Savage = dead battery http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10422140&postcount=9 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10432778&postcount=139
ANOTHER dead battery http://forum.androidcentral.com/htc-evo-4g-roms-hacks/51972-sbc-killed-my-battery-2.html#post517436
Battery loses charge after extended time with sbc kernel http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10431788&postcount=49
Another one bites the dust... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10457753&postcount=162
COUNT ME IN http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10469184&postcount=174
Current Count: 8
___________________________________________________________________
Various Dev Reactions:
Ziggy's editorial on WHY these kernels shouldn't exist and are dangerous (written before the new epidemic of dead batteries):http://www.ziggy471.com/2011/01/02/overcharging-batteries/
Netarchy's post explaining why he's REMOVING all SBC kernels from his page: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10421166&postcount=6185
___________________________________________________________________
THIS IS A CALL TO ALL ROM/KERNAL DEVELOPERS: Please don't include this feature in our favorite roms. I have been having to switch Kernels on my latest roms becuase I don't want to risk killing my battery (and that is a PAIN)
My $0.02:
I trust these developers on this site ALOT. What they have managed to do with the software is amazing. However, software is software. These trickle-charge kernels were amazing SOFTWARE-WISE. However, the effects of charges on batteries are not your specialty, so while it may be amazing that you all developed these kernels, there effect on the battery is not alright. I (sorry) trust an industry of battery/software engineers over some basement-developers who like pushing the limits (Pushing the limits is awesome, just not when it comes to batteries lol)
hmsheen10 said:
I installed one of these amazing new kernels the other day and loved it. I was even able to keep 100% for about 30 minutes of usage and I was amazed. Yet today I checked Phandroid and an article from an XDA contributer came up:
http://phandroid.com/2010/12/25/you...is-lying-to-you-and-its-not-such-a-bad-thing/
In the article he explained (from what I understand) that he thinks knows it is a GOOD THING that phones aren't programmed to allow the battery to keep charging at the real 100% because it would end up damaging the battery in the end, much like how many of the early cell phone batterys would get damaged.
Until I find out the answer I (sadly) switched back to my old kernel, as I would rather be safe than sorry, at least until I find out for sure.
Any responses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, there is a reason why all the phone makers have them charge like that and there is also a reason why putting custom roms on your phone voids your warranty.
Remember hearing about all those ipod and lap top batteries that liked to blow up?
Edit: he's also forgetting that when the battery gets close to full the voltage starts changing less and less, to the point that it is nearly impossible to accurately tell how much battery you have when it is over 80% full
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
i knew it was too good to be true :\
yea i get amazing battery life with this trickle charging only when i leave it on charger for around 7+ hours. Sounds like i should stop using that then damn
Edit: didnt mean to quote anyone
From what I read the article didnt reveal any specifics to if and when it will damage a battery.The article seemed to suggest that because battery manufacturers changed how they implimented charging it means that trickle charging is bad. It does not have enough variables in this observation to come to any conclusion. If advancements have been made in the battery industry you could also come to the conlcusion that trickle charging is or would be ok.
I am not trying to go against the article or this thread but simply wondering if after a thorough evaluation of the battery capacity after say 3 months using trickle charging and one without trickle charging we give an conclusion.
If need be I will run my phone with trickle charging, will someone else volunteer there phone for research?
For the extra bump I get every day now Ill by a new battery for 15 bucks a little more often. Its worth it for me YMMV
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
I think that the makers of all these new kernels than should put up a warning specifically pertaining to the dangers of the kernel
Sent from my EVO
Quoting ms79723 :
Will this damage my battery?
This charging method doesnt damage the batteries at all. It shouldnt. Because our batteries dont even charge up to 4.2V without the tweak. They charge up to 4.2V the first charge, then drop all the way down to 4.08V or something and then does these weird short burst chargers to 4.1-4.125V. Thats why there's the rapid drop in the morning. Because your voltage is actually at 4.125V and that's not 100%. So with this tweak, the charger keeps charging until you're at 4.2V (or the maximum voltage your battery can get to) and then it trickle chargers while at that voltage. The charger itself never turns off. Thats not a bad thing. Because as you reach your actual voltage, the mA decreases. Which is why our phones will never be damaged. You ever want to know why its really easy to charge from 50-80% but the charge from 90-100% seems to take so long? Its because from 50% the mA going into the phone is in the 600's. Once it reaches 90%, the mA is around 150 and once it reaches 95% you're looking at 90mA. The phone when absolutely idle uses anywhere from 60-120mA, even when on the charger. So charging from 90% to 100% takes longer becaus the mA going into the phone isnt always higher than the mA you're losing. This is the same with charging past 100%. As you leave the phone on the charger with this tweak, you're mA will decrease from 50mA all the way down to 2mA overnight. But on the charger you're losing about 30-60mA already, so you'll never overcharge the battery, in best case scenarios, you'll just maintain the voltage of 4.2 or around 4.2V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read their thread, they say they disagree that any harm is being done.
Personally, I am not a battery expert, though I do have some experience with them in the EV car field, but my understanding is these batteries will be damaged if continuously held at a full charge. That is why the manufacturers design the system to full charge, then discharge to approximately 90% and then charge again, continuously cycling the battery.
From what I have read and from talking to the guys who design Li-ion batteries, they say that prolonging the time that the battery is at full charge significantly reduces battery life. Over time it can also lead to overheating resulting in an unsafe battery. For those reasons, virtually all properly designed charging circuits for Li-ion batteries are set up to let the battery sit at full charge for the shortest time possible.
Vann's quote from the kernel thread proves my point, what it appears they are trying to do is hold the battery fully charged while it is on the charger. That might increase the amount of time you can run your phone in the short run. But in the long run it will kill the battery.
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
alekosy said:
I suggest you guys RELAX and try to stick with the responsibility of handling your phone the easiest way possible. Being not the hardest way to learn, but you eventually find the way to start new each time you look at your phone. Just saying kinda like when I have my EVO, It is just peachy to have. I don't want to tear the skin or even puncture the screen. LOL Like a PEACH?
I'm imaginative today and well, I always try to keep my phone in cool conditions, for short say. I use Juice Defender with Ultimate Juice with a good nice kernel and ROM that suits it as it suits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wtf.........?
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
wfrandy said:
Yep, trickle charging is bad for the battery. Rememebr when all those laptop batteries were catching on fire? Same thing could potentially happen if your battery is not charged properly. They charge the batteries the way they do for a reason. That reason is relatively long battery life and safety.
Here is a good article on the subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
Full charge is attained after the voltage threshold has been reached and the current has dropped to 3% of the rated current or has leveled off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I missing?
guys... this is from the article put up:
When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
The "trickle charge" kernels never go near 4.30v, mine stops at 4.19. Also, the temperature during the "trickle" overnight is very low. after 8 hours of "trickling" my battery was at 30 degrees C. Only time will tell if the battery life is SLIGHTLY shortened from this charging, but it is in NO WAY NEAR exploding, catching fire, blah blah blah. Stop scaring people, read the articles you post yourself and actually look at what is going on in these kernels. You may surprise yourself!
Now, if you cant get a replacement battery because you live on the moon and want your battery life to stay 3 years instead of 2 1/2, then it is your choice to not use these kernels, but dont scare others away just because you don't want to partake.
aph said:
This article is confusing because it says 2 different things:
1. The current "trickle charging" kernels are safe but we should be calling them "topping off" instead:
The kernels drop to 0mA at 4.20V, so the voltage threshold is reached and the current safely drops.
2. The kernel is not safe because it keeps the battery at 4.20V/cell continuously:
What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
wtf.........?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jfree3000 said:
Well its just like rooting and flashing custom roms, it may do this it may do that. If its such a concern don't use it. I'm using it and my phone doesn't take 7 hours to charge and it doesn't overheat at all, its a risk I am taking and I don't hold the developer responsible for it if something goes wrong. I understand the concern about this and I'm sure he will add a disclaimer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dkdude36 said:
wow and i was just starting to appreciate the new kernels. thanks for ruining it for me guys...
haha no i guess thanks for saving me....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmsheen10 said:
Agreeeeeeeeeed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
alekosy said:
LOL I don't know, but battery trickling isn't good to be heard to deal nicely with these EVOs, but If you wanna try to give it a run or a test on your own, be prepared that you voided your warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
sd2649 said:
Your warranty was void as soon as you were able to flash a kernel... seriously... (I still have had a screen replaced from separating though!)
Look! A brand new battery for your EVO for $2.92 shipped!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1500-mAh-HTC-Ex...ccessories&hash=item4aa608f2c7#ht_3246wt_1198
I guess I don't care if I have to replace them... just as long as they last an extra couple of hours everyday...
You all know that there is NO WAY it can hurt the actual phone, right???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And try JuiceDefender with UltimateJuice, the 2nd app is a small fee paid app for donation, but it's very useful with the right kernel and rom for your liking. Trust on that, I think everyone would probably agree that this way would be the safest legit way.
1. Turn your device ON, charge the device for 8 hours or more
2. Unplug the device,turn the phone OFF, charge for 1 hour
3. Unplug the device, turn ON wait 2 minutes (basically when the phone is all booted up and ready), turn OFF, charge for 1 hour
Happy longer battery life everyone!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=7690163
?
sent from my Zuse Z1
Franz Jakob Tim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=7690163
?
sent from my Zuse Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't notice it had already been put down similar.
My bad.
Does this really work?
Batterys die slow normally, does this recover them?
Franz Jakob Tim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=7690163
?
sent from my Zuse Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive done the method from that thread and it worked the first time, second time and more didnt see any difference really unless you do that every charge but i guess that would just kill the battery
I have done all the above and did't see any changes
Would be nice if this would work, but I doubt it...
That doesnt do anything, i get good battery from not having any auto sync updates, brightness is low, widgets for 3g, gps wifi etc.. thats how i get up to 2 days normal usage on full load.
Didn't make any significant changes to mine. I guess if it ever really works then this would be a brain new, never charged battery.
I can only make like up to 24:00 (no use), usualy 7-10 hours of moderate use, can kill in an hour our two on gps.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I used this method when I got Desire and it worked very well! In a meanwhile my battery life weakened, probably because of new ROMs and kernels...so should I repeat this to extend battery life?
that reads like overloading the battery. didnt that just work for the old type of batteries?
HTC uses Ni-MH batts, guys. These things attain long lifespans through two things mostly:
a) keeping it protected from extreme temperatures
b) frequent top-ups
I don't think the idea of keeping it plugged in after full charge is a good idea. The ff is from batteryuniversity.com:
"Lithium-ion suffers stress when exposed to heat and kept at a high charge voltage.
Elevated temperature is anything that dwells above 30°C (86°F), and a high voltage is higher than 4.10V/cell. When estimating longevity, these conditions are difficult to assess because the battery state is in constant flux, and so is the temperature in which it operates. Exposing the battery to high temperature and being at full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more damaging than cycling."
Doesn't work for me I really need more battery life!
I learned a long time ago, even before my smart phone days, that battery life is something I'll never had.
Quick fixes will never work, but preparedness will. For instance; I have 3 charging cables. 1 at home, 1 at work and one in my car. I even had a spare battery for my previous phone.
Things like the first post, I'll never bother trying. It's silly. And looking at the poll results says it all.
I recently did it and I got 2 days out of my battery.
But I assume it will weaken over time and slowly have no effect.
Borat38 said:
HTC uses Ni-MH batts, guys. These things attain long lifespans through two things mostly:
a) keeping it protected from extreme temperatures
b) frequent top-ups
I don't think the idea of keeping it plugged in after full charge is a good idea. The ff is from batteryuniversity.com:
"Lithium-ion suffers stress when exposed to heat and kept at a high charge voltage.
Elevated temperature is anything that dwells above 30°C (86°F), and a high voltage is higher than 4.10V/cell. When estimating longevity, these conditions are difficult to assess because the battery state is in constant flux, and so is the temperature in which it operates. Exposing the battery to high temperature and being at full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more damaging than cycling."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What kernel is your ROM using?
Kernel's have a big impact on the life of your battery. I know mine doubled switching from kernels.
my phone has just recently started to give me the 15% warning then 2 minutes later switch off.
I used to get 10% and 5% before auto shut down.
I'm debranded orange on stock
2.2 2.29.405.5 (release keys)
kernel
2.6.32.15 [email protected]#1 (whatever that means)
Is this caused by software/rom based issues or is my battery on the way out?
(I did the fix in the OP and it did have a positive effect but that was months ago)
don't believe it's a good idea
Borat38 said:
HTC uses Ni-MH batts, guys. These things attain long lifespans through two things mostly:
a) keeping it protected from extreme temperatures
b) frequent top-ups
I don't think the idea of keeping it plugged in after full charge is a good idea. The ff is from batteryuniversity.com:
"Lithium-ion suffers stress when exposed to heat and kept at a high charge voltage.
Elevated temperature is anything that dwells above 30°C (86°F), and a high voltage is higher than 4.10V/cell. When estimating longevity, these conditions are difficult to assess because the battery state is in constant flux, and so is the temperature in which it operates. Exposing the battery to high temperature and being at full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more damaging than cycling."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Desire doesn't use Ni-MH
theturtleman said:
What kernel is your ROM using?
Kernel's have a big impact on the life of your battery. I know mine doubled switching from kernels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested in this, what kernel did you use first and to which one did you switch? Also what ROM do you use and how much battery life do you get now?
Grtz
Surely when the charge reaches 100% the charge is stopped?
When I got my one x roughly two weeks ago, battery life wasn't really that good. 8 hours max with a couple of hours of screen time. But I always calibrate my battery. When I got it I charged it for 8 hours then drained it then did the same thing for a whole week just using the phone till the battery runs out and then charge it for 5 hours... Now battery life is very good, EASILY last me through a whole day with moderate to heavy usage. Lots of tapatalk 2, browsing, messaging and emails. I'm also running ARHD rom so that also help but nonetheless battery calibration is important so do it people
Never calibrated or whatever, have excellent (for me) battery life.
I thought we got over this myth.....
OP, do you have some supporting evidence, or even logic, that shows that doing exactly what you shouldn't do with a li-po battery has a positive effect?. Have you A /B tested it against another handset where you treated the li-po battery as recommended? I.E, avoiding fully discharging it and preferably charge from around 50%.
I get up to 4 hours screen time and 4-5 days standby having treated the battery this way with just a handful of total discharges (obviously it not always possible to avoid)
farnsbarns said:
OP, do you have some supporting evidence, or even logic, that shows that doing exactly what you shouldn't do with a li-po battery has a positive effect?. Have you A /B tested it against another handset where you treated the li-po battery as recommended? I.E, avoiding fully discharging it and preferably charge from around 50%.
I get up to 4 hours screen time and 4-5 days standby having treated the battery this way with just a handful of total discharges (obviously it not always possible to avoid)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do I have evidence? No I didn't capture any screentshots or anything. This is from my personal experience I'm not here to prove to you anything, just sharing how my battery life is improving cause of battery calibration. My phone no longer display for example 25% then soon as I use it jumps to 19% like before. It decreases gradually and I get excellent battery life. Same thing with my I pad when is discharge it completely then recharge it, I see better battery life and better battery % display accuracy.
barondebxl said:
Do I have evidence? No I didn't capture any screentshots or anything. This is from my personal experience I'm not here to prove to you anything, just sharing how my battery life is improving cause of battery calibration. My phone no longer display for example 25% then soon as I use it jumps to 19% like before. It decreases gradually and I get excellent battery life. Same thing with my I pad when is discharge it completely then recharge it, I see better battery life and better battery % display accuracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Li - po batteries do improve with the first few charge cycles but this has nothing to do with the fact you have run it flat. Doing so regularly will shorten the life of the battery. You stated that it had a positive effect but you have no comparison and it flys in the face of the laws of physics and chemistry. The point of my post was to make it clear to anyone who doesn't know better that it's bs and will be detrimental to battery life.
Though LiPo batteries don't like to be overly discharged, I'd stop short of saying that this is detrimental to your battery. LiPo batteries shouldn't be left at low voltage (dead) for long periods of time, but discharging it entirely and then recharging it is well within the designed specs of the battery. It's more the fact that they lose charge over time, and therefore leaving them dead which is considered their minimum safe voltage, will then allow them to drain further themselves over time to a point where it's detrimental. I suppose, though, a battery drained to 0% every single time is more likely to have a shorter life than a battery discharged only to 20% before recharging.
The Android system does calibrate the battery life, which is more of what you'd be doing, but you aren't going to get more battery life out of a battery by discharging it entirely, then charging it fully, it just doesn't work like that. LiPo batteries don't have issues with memory or needing to be discharged or charged to a certain point for optimum performance.
I 100% attribute bad battery life when you first get a phone to simply being you pulling it out and turning it on more than you normally would. It's nearly impossible, and damn near subconscious, but when you get a new toy, you're obviously going to pull it out to look at it, play with it, load every different app it has, etc, as well as doing the same when you show it to people. I think even if you think you didn't play with it a lot when you first got it, you likely still do. But that's just my opinion.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
read that calibration not needed
AJerman said:
Though LiPo batteries don't like to be overly discharged, I'd stop short of saying that this is detrimental to your battery. LiPo batteries shouldn't be left at low voltage (dead) for long periods of time, but discharging it entirely and then recharging it is well within the designed specs of the battery. It's more the fact that they lose charge over time, and therefore leaving them dead which is considered their minimum safe voltage, will then allow them to drain further themselves over time to a point where it's detrimental. I suppose, though, a battery drained to 0% every single time is more likely to have a shorter life than a battery discharged only to 20% before recharging.
5
The Android system does calibrate the battery life, which is more of what you'd be doing, but you aren't going to get more battery life out of a battery by discharging it entirely, then charging it fully, it just doesn't work like that. LiPo batteries don't have issues with memory or needing to be discharged or charged to a certain point for optimum performance.
I 100% attribute bad battery life when you first get a phone to simply being you pulling it out and turning it on more than you normally would. It's nearly impossible, and damn near subconscious, but when you get a new toy, you're obviously going to pull it out to look at it, play with it, load every different app it has, etc, as well as doing the same when you show it to people. I think even if you think you didn't play with it a lot when you first got it, you likely still do. But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dtremental effect will be minute, accepted, but there is certainly nothing to gain. That's what I wanted to make clear.
There is a lot of guesses portrayed as fact on here these days, as well as conclusions drawn from dubious experience with no control or comparisons. Just trying to combat this misinformation.
farnsbarns said:
The dtremental effect will be minute, accepted, but there is certainly nothing to gain. That's what I wanted to make clear.
There is a lot of guesses portrayed as fact on here these days, as well as conclusions drawn from dubious experience with no control or comparisons. Just trying to combat this misinformation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean. I usually get yelled out when I try to do that and help, haha.
farnsbarns said:
Li - po batteries do improve with the first few charge cycles but this has nothing to do with the fact you have run it flat. Doing so regularly will shorten the life of the battery. You stated that it had a positive effect but you have no comparison and it flys in the face of the laws of physics and chemistry. The point of my post was to make it clear to anyone who doesn't know better that it's bs and will be detrimental to battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It flys in the face of the laws of physics??!!!??? What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about my battery life getting better and better cause of draining it and recharging it not the gravity of the moon or Einstein theories, relax.
farnsbarns said:
The dtremental effect will be minute, accepted, but there is certainly nothing to gain. That's what I wanted to make clear.
There is a lot of guesses portrayed as fact on here these days, as well as conclusions drawn from dubious experience with no control or comparisons. Just trying to combat this misinformation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO, get out of your basement.
AJerman said:
I know what you mean. I usually get yelled out when I try to do that and help, haha.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I just don't care if the truth means a fan of cereal box science gets their knickers in a twist. More than half of what gets posted now is erroneous guess work, assumptive, misleading noise that serves no purpose other than to dilute the factual helpful discussion.
I've never been much good at biting my lip.
farnsbarns said:
Yep, I just don't care if the truth means a fan of cereal box science gets their knickers in a twist. More than half of what gets posted now is erroneous guess work, assumptive, misleading noise that serves no purpose other than to dilute the factual helpful discussion.
I've never been much good at biting my lip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fascinating..... I wonder where that battery calibration thing started in the first place, I guess someone made that up just to mess with people right?
barondebxl said:
That's fascinating..... I wonder where that battery calibration thing started in the first place, I guess someone made that up just to mess with people right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For batteries that needed calibration? And as I said, a lot of people confuse calibrating the battery meter in the OS with calibrating the battery itself.
Read, learn: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
AJerman said:
For batteries that needed calibration?
Read, learn: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read this, point 2.
http://osxreality.com/2009/07/18/4-tips-to-extend-your-lithium-battery-life/
To all of you who say that using up your battery shortens it's life, I have just one thing to say: the phone will never let you fully discharge the battery. Approx. 3.5V at which the phone turns off is far from the voltage of fully discharging (and potentially damaging) the battery.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
barondebxl said:
Read this, point 2.
http://osxreality.com/2009/07/18/4-tips-to-extend-your-lithium-battery-life/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said, this has nothing to do with calibrating the battery, and everything to do with calibrating the battery meter in the OS, which, by the way, will never be off by HOURS, maybe by a couple of minutes. This only needs to be done once every however many cycles, that site says 30, but I wouldn't even bother doing it more than once every couple of months at the most as you likely won't see any real gain from doing so, and it IS theoretically bad to overly discharge your phone. Doing it once in a while won't damage anything, but doing it every cycle, or every day for a week or anything like that is excessive, unnecessary, and, as farnsbarns mentioned, can wear on your battery.
Battery meter calibration has been discussed on this message board countless times, and every time it's proven to be nearly pointless in real tests.
Edit: This is not to mention that I think a lot of batteries/phones have charging circuits built into them that allows them to properly check the battery level itself, meaning calibration of the OS isn't necessary. I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I've read about this before.
AJerman said:
As I said, this has nothing to do with calibrating the battery, and everything to do with calibrating the battery meter in the OS, which, by the way, will never be off by HOURS, maybe by a couple of minutes. This only needs to be done once every however many cycles, that site says 30, but I wouldn't even bother doing it more than once every couple of months at the most as you likely won't see any real gain from doing so, and it IS theoretically bad to overly discharge your phone. Doing it once in a while won't damage anything, but doing it every cycle, or every day for a week or anything like that is excessive, unnecessary, and, as farnsbarns mentioned, can wear on your battery.
Battery meter calibration has been discussed on this message board countless times, and every time it's proven to be nearly pointless in real tests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing to do with battery calibration? Have you read the article? If you want accurates readings, you want your battery life to improve, you probably want to calibrate your battery. I've had the one x for almost two weeks and my phone doesn't jump from 50% to 42% randomly anymore cause I've calibrated the battery. If you want more reading : http://www.themobileindian.com/news/5547_How-to-calibrate-smartphone-battery
No one here said that it is something you need to do everyday, but when you get your phone I suggest doing it. Then once it's calibrated do it once a week or every other week.
AJerman said:
Edit: This is not to mention that I think a lot of batteries/phones have charging circuits built into them that allows them to properly check the battery level itself, meaning calibration of the OS isn't necessary. I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I've read about this before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they do have charging circuits I just read it, still you want accurate readings. Even my iPad sometimes displays wrong battery percentage when I don't let it discharge. Sometimes I charge it when it's at like 28% for example, let it fully charge but then it drains weirdly.
barondebxl said:
Nothing to do with battery calibration? Have you read the article? If you want accurates readings, you want your battery life to improve, you probably want to calibrate your battery. I've had the one x for almost two weeks and my phone doesn't jump from 50% to 42% randomly anymore cause I've calibrated the battery. If you want more reading : http://www.themobileindian.com/news/5547_How-to-calibrate-smartphone-battery
No one here said that it is something you need to do everyday, but when you get your phone I suggest doing it. Then once it's calibrated do it once a week or every other week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are failing to listen to what I'm saying. I've read the article, and many others like it. There is no such thing as calibrating Lithium batteries, and it's a common misconception, so I have full faith that you can find countless web pages telling you you can. It comes from the old mindset of batteries that did need certain charge cycles (full discharge, full charge, etc) to maintain life.
Again, the only thing you calibrate when you run the battery all the way down is the OS's battery meter. Android shuts itself down automatically when battery voltage hits a level that is considered empty or dead, regardless of what the battery meter says, so that calibration gives you no more life out of your battery at all.
However, I think we all run down our phones to the point where they auto shutdown more than frequently enough to consider the battery meter calibrated very close at any given time. Battery meter calibration is more an issue on systems that stay plugged in frequently and don't often get discharged, this is usually with laptops used as a desktop replacement, not phones.
We aren't trying to be mean or anything, just trying to squash the continued misconception that calibrating the battery is possible or has any effect.
All,
Last weekend, I experienced the most unusual occurrences where my Note 7 battery just drained within minutes while at least half full. I was browsing the internet on my phone waiting for a drink. I put the phone down to pick up the drink, and when I went back to the phone, I could not interact with it. I pressed on the power button for a few seconds, nothing. Went back to the car and plugged it up and there it went, it was out of power. I first thought it was weird, cause I could have sworn I had at least 40% batter left. Ok, whatever, that night it happened again. I'm pretty anal about battery power, so I will definitely notice when my battery reaches a low level especially so low that power shuts off.
Ever since the two incidents my phone has been running fine during the week. Just right now, I noticed my battery was at 39%, so I was like ok, let me plug it in and give it some juice before I leave work. I stepped away for a few seconds and come back to my phone and see it at 11%, I was like what?? I unlock my phone, and seeing it go down 10%, 9% while its being charged...I started "close all apps", still going down 8%, I go to settings, "optimize" and optimize all, nothing, 7%, finally drag down notification, close the Tidal app widget, and clear all, think what was left was Good app. 6%....keep watching the battery screen...7%...few seconds more 8%. PHewwww....
WTF was that?? Was it a rogue app that was sucking up the battery? But what triggered it? I checked GSAM battery tracker, Android System at 35% CPU usage 6h 9m, next is Kernel 11% 1h 56m, then Good 5.3% 55m..Instagram 4.9% 52min....
Its happened to me 3x within a week. GSAM is not telling me any info on what is causing this.
Any ideas?
If I were you , I would shut it down and return it .
tossero said:
If I were you , I would shut it down and return it .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too
Sent from my SM-N930F using XDA-Developers mobile app
But from what I just did, to me it's gotta be a rogue app that's causing this or something is going on with the system. I also just wiped cached partition.
Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk
Nutzzer said:
But from what I just did, to me it's gotta be a rogue app that's causing this or something is going on with the system. I also just wiped cached partition.
Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes , maybe . Phone freezing and battery rapidly discharging in the actual context doesn't seem good. Be cautious...
Cheers~
Get rid of it ASAP!
When batteries discharge faster than expected they can generate heat, this heat can trigger the bad battery "explosion" we are all fearing.
This sounds like a prime situation. Shut the phone off and leave it off.
Get it replaced ASAP.
you should replace it
this is faulty battery
how long you had it so far
and how was batterg life , lagging , overheating like ?
FAULTY ALERT. do a scratch test and return it! lmao jk. just return it.
I have also had this happen where I check my battery percentage 75% then not a minute late my device is off and wont start up until I plug in a charger and then maybe 5 minutes later it show 30%. Something is really screwed up with the either these batteries or the phones themself. Worst decision ever was to not make the battery user replaceable! My Note 7 is going back once the replacements are available.
laserbiz said:
I have also had this happen where I check my battery percentage 75% then not a minute late my device is off and wont start up until I plug in a charger and then maybe 5 minutes later it show 30%. Something is really screwed up with the either these batteries or the phones themselves. Worst decision ever was to not make the battery user replaceable! My Note 7 is going back once the replacements are available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup...I don't believe its the battery but something in the OS. I don't really care about removable batteries, but this battery fiasco, the lag, the battery drainage we experiencing...I think I'm done guys. I'm still on the fence, but leaning towards to the Iphone 7 Plus.
I honestly think it's something in the battery. The way they're exploding and the way it randomly drains points to battery issues. Plus if it was a software issue, Samsung would have pushed an update a long time ago. It's much easier to push an update than recall every single phone. I personally think the chemistry in the battery is off, that's why we get random drains and exploding batteries. Regardless, mine is getting exchanged as soon as the replacements are available. Btw, mine has been doing the same thing for the past week, so I know about having 50% or more of battery and it going completely dead. That's can't be because of the software. The phone would get hot if a rogue app was draining that fast. Not to mention I've never seen a rogue app drain a battery instantly...
Sent from my SM-N930T using Tapatalk
This could also be the electronics not accurately determining the batteries voltage. In turn, allowing the battery to charge well above what's safe (3.7v battery charged by a 5v charger)- and if there's one thing you don't do to lithium batteries it's overcharge them.
Phlip00ws6 said:
This could also be the electronics not accurately determining the batteries voltage. In turn, allowing the battery to charge well above what's safe (3.7v battery charged by a 5v charger)- and if there's one thing you don't do to lithium batteries it's overcharge them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the battery is not defective and it's the Power Management Circuit which is problematic, then the risk will even be more disturbing than the idea of having a defective battery. Anyone knows whether the Exynos variant is also using Qualcomm power management IC?
This is the extent of what Samsung is saying:
Based on our investigation, we learned that there was an issue with the battery cell. An overheating of the battery cell occurred when the anode-to-cathode came into contact which is a very rare manufacturing process error."
The leads shorting doesn't represent a problem with the cell - overheating/exploding would be normal in this situation.
Phlip00ws6 said:
This is the extent of what Samsung is saying:
Based on our investigation, we learned that there was an issue with the battery cell. An overheating of the battery cell occurred when the anode-to-cathode came into contact which is a very rare manufacturing process error."
The leads shorting doesn't represent a problem with the cell - overheating/exploding would be normal in this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have copy of the full report. I'm interested to read their findings.