Related
edit: added poll
i believe that it would be a really great idea if one new market place subforum is added. this would be dedicated to finding genuinly great deals on phones or services that people normally look for here. there are just too many
a friend was about to pay an absurd $950 (locally)for an xperia 2 weeks ago and i managed to save him more than $250 based on a post (that was actully misplaced)
what do you guys think? please voice your opinion. if there is a lot of interest and if our request is reasonable. im sure the administrators wont ignore it
Some threads already discussing this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469619&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375362&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336538&highlight=Selling
XDA-Developers isn't a market place and doesn't want to be IMO, we are a development forum. If a Marketplace was setup we would start attracting power sellers and scammers - there's no denying it, you cannot trust anyone on the internet . This would mean xda-developers would then have a responsibilty over what was sold on it's site.
Buying and selling of devices on this forum has caused problems before - a senior member on this forum scammed a number of users by selling devices that didn't exist.
Known users selling a second hand device after an upgrade is allowed (for the moment).
Thanks
Dave
i think the $700 he paid is too much. you can get it for even less from UK shops like expansys or handec or ebay even with shipping put into consideration.
the idea has merit but dave is also making a lot of sense .
mabe we can reach middle ground by creating a new "deals" subforum for all devices. a single subforum should not be that hard to moderatea slickdeals.net type forum is extreemly valuable to far too many people espeically new-comers.
oh and btw its now possible to buy decent wm devices for as litte as $160. pda+keyboard+3.5G+520mhz+wifi http://www.expansys.ae/p.aspx?i=147071
are you sure expansys.ae is not a scam site. a similar phone like this would cost about 2-3 times as much
i just added a poll in hope that this will give the admins a better idea what people want.
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
As posted before
Already are threads regarding this
what i am asking for is a toned down vesion of what what asked before
-im not asking a per device forum.
-not asking forum wtb/wts forum.
im just asking for a single test forum that will help people find good deals on wm all smartphones. the moderators are already handling over 50 subforums. is one extra really a big deal??!!
now if only i could get more people to vote too see how other people feel about this
THE GRIZZ said:
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
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To be fair, if you look at who it is that's saying "it's been talked about before, and we think that the idea is problematic and we don't really want it to become a marketplace" you might notice one significant fact that i believe you are overlooking. That fact is that we're talking about some of the more significant, long-term contributors to the forum, and people who have actually talked to the site admin before and know the owner's/admin's feelings about the matter. The issue isn't that we can't handle one more sub-forum, or even 10 more for that matter, but rather what that sub-forum will contain. You have not even been a member one month, and I in no means intend to put you down, but believe me when i say that if you spend the next year learning and contributing here on the forum, you will have a much different perspective than you do now.
There are already marketplace forums in existence but it does not belong here. Personally, I do not agree with people creating threads selling their devices on here. Many of us remember the Cuboosh scams that took place a short while ago and many considered him a valued member to this community prior to his shady activities.
In addition, I am undecided whether I agree with people linking their eBay listing here. If you want to promote more attraction to your listing do it elsewhere.
Below is a handy website that does have marketplace deals for many items. If you want to add deals on win-mo devices to their forums feel free too.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/13-bargain-websites-that-are-cheaper-than-ebay/
Similar Story
A friend of mine is a mod on a site that has fairly heavy trading of sports cards and other collectibles. Admittedly that site is largely focused on that activity, or at least it has become a major focus over time (I'm not a member and have no part in it, so I admit, I know little of it's history).
He's told me a number of times about complications with scammers, and even repeat offenders who return even after being banned numerous times, which has even forced the site to have more moderators to manage scammers than mods for thread problems. To my knowledge (and logic), the site only supports people trading within the United States, which obviously has stricter laws and enforcement on mail scams than there are for international situations. Despite all of their efforts, they still have people trying to rip off others all the time. Given the nature of how easy it is to set up a website that even looks legit, plus crossing international lines in many cases, this site would be inviting the worst kind of activity where people would be spending large amounts on electronics that will never be delivered.
There's already a pretty good standard of people searching around and asking the forum if others have dealt with a specific site/seller before....which seems to usually just get more people suggesting expansys (why oh why can't there be a decent seller in the US?)
270 views and only 12 votes.im quite surprised with the level of interest of this idea.this does not look like it will fly here
are there any other good sites that provide for what im asking?
I've only been a member a couple of weeks (lurked previously) but like mentioned above, I see this forum as a development/support tool, not a marketplace. It's a place people come to learn about a device they've already got, or are getting. I undertand the reasoning behind your suggestion, but there are many, many other sources of purchase information/price comparison sites on the internet. I spent weeks researching prices before deciding on how to buy my Touch HD and to be honest, on that particular point, this site didn't really enter into it. It does now, obviously.
There are many sites in the UK that compare mobile phone prices, whether they be handset only, pay as you go, or monthly contract. I'm surprised there aren't similar sites elsewhere in the world.
I cannot vouch for any of these sites, use at your own risk, etc, etc, but I used them during my search for the best package:
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/MobilePhones/default.aspx
http://www.mobile-phones.co.uk/
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/compare_phones.html
THE GRIZZ said:
.this does not look like it will fly here
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it flew check the new section
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
JimmyMcGee said:
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
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Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
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I reject your change and substitute my own!
The Marketplace section of XDA has been only open for a short time. There are currently 8 potential users in our community who have been ripped off and may not be capable of receiving their payments back and/or punishing the people that scammed them. There also exist a number of buyers that await their devices to be received but the sellers have not contacted them.
There are several benefits of selling on XDA and there are many drawbacks. Please let me remind you that this is a developers (or those interested in the processes, aka users like me) forum. Please take the time to reflect the benefits and the drawbacks and vote.
I know the poll results will lean towards keeping the Marketplace open because those who visit this section on a regular would want to keep using it as a resource. Yet there are many on this site that still do not have any idea that this marketplace exist, simply because they bookmark their device's section.
Please vote after reading the Fraud Thread,Thank You.
If you have new guidelines that will help deter criminals from scamming our members please post. Please note, your suggestions may be criticized.
My vote to third option. I dont believe in throwing the baby with the bath water. Everything faces problem in the beginning, so is this marketplace. Let's make it a better place.
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
|Jason8| said:
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
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I completely agree with your opinion. What do you think about banning device sale transactions altogether?
Just like XDA bans warez but obviously users can PM each other regarding warez.
I would think that there is a way to keep the market section open, yet make it safer. I don't think it is XDA's responsibility to make sure every transaction is 100% safe, not even eBay can do that. I don't even think it is responsible to go above and beyond "buyer/seller beware". But I know this communitty and to simply leave it at "stock" isn't an option.
It has proven true that it is hard to identify a good scammer. Post counts, length of membership, and so forth have all proven indicators of trustworthiness, but not a guarantee. And while a guarantee surely isn't possible in reality, I know it is always the goal of those in this communitty to get it right and as close to perfect as possible.
I am currently trying to sell a couple phones, and half my worry is that people have enough trust and faith in me to feel comfortable buying from me. The other half is that I find a legit buyer. I can't even image being the actual buyer!
I feel that stricter guidelines and oversight will go a long way, although likely more time consuming as well. Perhaps making it so new listings have to get approved? And setting criteria for approval asking for photographic proof that the item exists? As well, maybe create an XDA paypal account, where the buyer pays XDA, and upon shipping confirmation/ receipt confirmation the funds are then transfered to the seller? This would put a lot of liability on XDA, which might not be plausable.
Ultimately, buyer and seller beware is and always will be the most important rule.
may555 said:
Although opening the market place means that many problems exist,which is seller make slow response to buying,I may strengthen to monitor.Opening the market place may improve the dynamic of the forum.
If you want to savvy more information about mobile phone, please come to [scamlink]
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And you give a link to a Kirf phone site... shakes head... maybe we can also look into strengthening membership requirements/ process?
XDA can't take guarantee for anything that happens in marketplace, that is something ebay doesn't take inspite of such a heavy fee amount they charge. I feel xda is the best way to share things like pocket pc phones in like minded people to get the get value for both buyer & seller. It would be there no matter you have the marketplace or not. Marketplace has provided outlet to all such dealings.
We can ponder over how to make it more secure, but giving marketplace an existential threat is not I am in agreement with.
Marketplace open!!
As I said before,
All transactions between particulars on the WWW have some risk.
If you are not willing to take that risk please do not use marketplace and go and buy to a regular store!
You should be aware that if you want to buy cheap there is always a risk!
Let´s continue with marketplace!!
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
Keep the market place.. I have used it for purchasing more than 1 phone, and lucky for me, my experiance here has been fantastic... I think people should pay for their transactions using a credit card... even with PayPal.. You can pay with credit card there.. That way if you are scammed and do no receive what you payed for, open up a dispute with both your credit card company as well as paypal.. evne if paypal can not "collect" anything, you credit card can cancel the transaction all together and take the money from paypal... (which will, in turn, make them want to look for the money a little harder, and even possibley bring up legal action againt the fraud monger!) In closing, KEEP THE MARKET PLACE...
I totally agree with 'Teej53214' and have voted for option 1.
I don't see why XDA should shoulder any responsibilty, nor have to police the marketplace,
since with all online dealing it is the buyers responsibility, not XDA's, to take adequate steps to protect himself.
as such, using a credit card is far the best way.
Yes, but at what point? A spammer will get a couple hundred posts in a few minutes, where as a legit member might not in a couple years.
As well, one of the most infamous scams thus far was carried out by a member with over 1000 posts, and 2 years of community involvement.
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
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there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
Ather said:
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
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Can we not delete it? Someone may suggest a new guideline, which could be useful for both seller/buyer
I may be new here, but i feel i'll be around for a while. I feel the Market Place is a great idea for everyone, but some guildlines should be improved for everyoens experience.
I feel that the suggestions (option 3?) would to invoke a Post Count Requirement, but to add to this a review (to enter into the market place) must be made by an admin to make sure all posts to that post count are not spam to scam.
I also feel that the market place should incorporate some kind of market system. I know there's plugins for vBulletin that would allow such a thing, or better yet, force all users to mediate through another site for sales (eBay?). This way we'll know they're scammers...
ie if someone posts a acution on eBay for the sole purpose to sell an item (Buy it now at discolsed price in forum) and they're new user on eBay then more caution flags are thrown up... (Could use many other auction sites, etc).
Edit:
Maybe enforce some kind of physical conversation about products as well, phone call, etc?
Just my $.02
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
skuliaxe said:
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
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As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
redbandana said:
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
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Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
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Click to collapse
I would like to repeat my suggestions: I was once really involved at notebookreview and this is how we ran things
1. Require a set form for selling and buying. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=243274
2. Require a picture with proof of ownership. (a photo of the item with a piece of paper containing the username and a dated newspaper)
3. Require feedback sources: Amazon, ebay, heatware.
4. Reference previous sales. (some sort of internal feedback system)
I think this can help make the Marketplace a bit safer to everyone involved.
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of those could be restrictive to real sellers, and not actually scare off scammers.
The spam guys will get a couple hundred posts really quickly. If you toss in a 1 year time limit type thing, then people that are active, like me, wouldn't even be able to sell because I haven't been a member for over a year.
I think we should ask sellers to post at least 5 pics, with their username and a newspaper pictured in one. As well, they need to send their contact info to the section mod. They also need to put a random word picked by the mod and PM to them on the piece of paper with their username on it. Only then would the post actually be made public.
As well, you can ask that they also have shown themself a member of this community, either through length of time here, post count, etc., but subject to the mods descretion.
Although some members may get p*ssed maybe one phone forum at a time. Yeah those who have to wait till you get to their phone may not be happy but it should be less chaotic if the thread is limited to a particular phone.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
My suggestion:
1. Be specific in your post. If you don't want us asking questions to which you've already composed answers, please post the questions you have so we don't repeat them. We cannot read your mind when you say, "I have your questions so don't ask the same ones."
2. Designate a moderator solely to that post. Probably not feasible, but if the moderator can make it primary focus, it can be kept civil and clean. A little work, but it could help the community.
3. While moderating, do not delete people's posts. If a question is posted that is being considered by SamsungJohn, simply replace the text with "Question is being addressed" or "Content does not benefit thread"
People are extremely disappointed in the whole communication realm amongst Samsung and Sprint so of course they're going to be a little raw. That's why it's extremely important to be VERY SPECIFIC in what you have and what you are looking for.
Next post example: "Here is the list of questions I will be addressing soon: 1) 2) 3), etc. Outside of those questions, are there any others you'd like addressed?"
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
daryelv said:
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
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I would doubt SamsungJohn is going to answer questions on the fly. He needs to time I guess to see if he can answer such questions. Actually I don't recall him saying he was going to answer any questions. He just wants us to ask questions that would benefit Galaxy S phones. Bug or defects that the phone may have.
Probably would be best to put it in the hands of moderators. They can weed out the repeat questions and all the where is froyo questions and maybe just pm a clean list of questions instead of having a thread that's gonna go straight to hell.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
othan1 has the best suggestion so far.
Unfortunately, with the gigantic amount of negative feeling about Samsung right now, I don't think its wise to do any Q&A before a Froyo source is released. Thats when technical questions will be much more relevant.
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
PUT OUT OR GET OUT.
STOP THE BULLSHIIT
I HOPE THERE IS A CLASS ACTION SUIT For producing a piece of crap phone that doesn't work and then not producing fixed or updates.
dwallersv said:
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
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Amen...... But I would have to say that him being here and wanting to work with the community IS a huge announcement. I hope that we can all try and see the possibilities here, as opposed to tying him to the nearest tree and crucifying him. Is xda not about the free exchange of ideas as a community? I hope on the next attempt we can be civil, and actually accomplish something
This whole interaction failed because Samsung still has no idea what they are doing:
1. SamsungJohn says he has been watching the forums
2. If he has been watching, WHY does he need anyone to post technical questions
3. The problems with all the Galaxy S phones are well documented - here and with Samsung
4. Samsung offers no real support and so they think a forum will help them organize suppport issues
5. Samsung is more concerned with selling product then fixing issues
6. He offered nothing from Samsung to start this - Samsung should be extending an olive branch (the technical equivalent anyway) but they gave us nothing
7. Samsung changed their message from "Froyo by End of year" to "coming whenever"
8. Customers have lost faith and are moving on
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Most of us will not let ourselves be fooled twice. I am tired of technology companies promising fixes and not delivering.
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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And that is why they posted here. So they can spread the 'outreach' news.
They know the issues. They've known the issues since August. Coming here and asking us what the issues are without even hinting anything will annoy most of the Galaxy S userbase.
Add to that, the 'huge' announcement was a thread to ask us what the issues with the phone are?
Me thinks John needs to be a bit more careful with the words he chooses. Very poor choice.
Huge would be telling us that 2.3 is on the way or we are all getting free upgrades to the Nexus S. Thats huge.
Telling us you are a liason from Samsung trying to bridge the communications gap is not huge. Thats to be expected from a professional company such as yours. Do no expect us to jump for joy over things you are expected to do.
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
I really think before SamsungJohn posts a Q&A thread he really needs to lay out ground rules specific to what he can talk about and what he can't.But really I think that without being sble to ask about future updates like froyo and other fixes for our phone there really is no point in even putting up a Q&A thread because the only stuff we all care about we are told not to ask about so it really is a pointless jesture.Othan1 pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post of suggestions but knowing what can be asked along with that would go a long ways to keeping things on track and not turning the thread into a mess of pissed off people.
Seems like all SamsungJohn posts have been deliberately 'hidden' from view. They all started in the general forum, one got moved to off-topic and the other one is in the about xda-developer.com forum?
WTH is going on guys?
next one will be in the winmo section... NOBODY will find it there!!! muwahahaha!
My concern here is that the forum is being broken up, into elite users, and peasants. Those of us who aren't part of the elite group, are being treated like don't deserve to know whats going on. Either everyone has an equal say, and have access to the same information, or we might as well switch to iphone (because Apple doesn't let us know what's going on either).
This whole matter is being treated by both parties incredibly poorly. I understand it's a big move for both parties, but it's disturbing that a move which is apparently related to improving transparency, simultaneously is being done behind closed doors !
Made a new post in general: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958106
it'll either get locked/removed or one of the mods will provide an answer.
Lately we have seen many users been scammed over here,, and with the lack of stickies its really difficult to know if the trader was bad or good for scams( had that recently where a member had scammed another member, and then one day he PM'd me asking to trade, but i was aware of it, but others may not be.) no ppl are getting banned who cheat on this forum. We need a mod who has traded before and just for this section, i dont think its hard to have one mod here who can delete threads, ban users who misuse the MP, make stickies on threads which have disputes, he can also act as a middle man if the User's chooses to. if you support me along this road, then please reply so we can have one
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
Cheeze[iT] said:
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
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yeah we need it, he could also verify the IP address is not of a scammer or near by.
I agree aswell although I've only done two trades here both of which wer successful there's always a bad apple out there ready to scam some unfortunate person and I personally think we should be doing everything we can to prevent it
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
it would be great ive wanted to offer on sum trades just have been kinda checking things out to see who is legit because we know everyone is not trust worthy
I think a Feedback system will be more helpful than moderators. Having feedback and mod will be even better.
Ya we need feedback, it will make checking someones transaction history very easy.
On my Suzuki Hayabusa forum you must have 50 posts to sell something - this is easily done with a simple vbulletin mod. The mod makes it possible for someone with less than 50 posts to browse and post in a thread in the "for sale" forums, but impossible to start a thread. I know you might think it's easy for someone to signup and post 50 times, but members notice that pretty damn quick - and we ban anyone who tries. We also have iTrader (another vbulletin mod) and once a sale is completed one of my Admins will post and ask the buyer and seller to post feedback.
The fact that people sell $6000+ motorcycles makes it a necessity to police and manage the "for sale" forums to the best of our ability for the protection of my members.
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
biggeorgef said:
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
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i deeply agree with this one , there should be zero tolerance , no posting suspension , no infractions , just insta-ban
pinstack.com has a "trust" meter, I've found it very useful at times. Plus this gives a better all-around feel for someone instead of just what's gone on in the marketplace.
http://forums.pinstack.com/trust.php
How about for now, we try and get people to use HeatWare? You can build a rep that's damn hard to fake.
There is always someone willing to take the role and help out.
Furthermore we have a "thanks" system, so I don't see it being too difficult to add some sort of "trust" system as previously mentioned. Though if there is an acceptable volunteer for thread mod, that would be a good idea too.
I also vouch for heatware. Great service and have used it on many forum trades sections.
or post names of scammers until mods start banning them.
TheAndroider
iDroidfan
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
Plus guys get scammed when they do things in private. Keep as much as possible public and you are safer since everyone reads the posts and someone will know if one of the parties is bogus.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
i suggest rules(vBulletin mod) to be able to use marketplace:
1.over 50 posts
2. member for atleast 6months
in addition to:
1.transparency-every single deal should be public, pm's allowed for chatting etc, but all conditions, offers etc will be sellers&buyers thing to do in their thread(go public if you don't wanna get scammed)
2.bans for people (proved)scamming-hasn't been on xda 1 week from bogus deal, didn't respond buyer's PM's, sent fake/empty product etc
3.more mods assinged to this part of forum-"too good to be true" offers will be removed/reported in short period of time, preventing anyone to reply, and could be reactivated when seller responds to mod's pm and proves he's legit and has item for sale(especially first few sales)
4. whitelist of members who made over 20 deals succsessfully in longer period of time, separate items, with higher value(not sending 20 e.g. batteries at once).
killster said:
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
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Do those 37 count the ones you committed to and then backed out of killster? Seems mlee and i are not the only ones. Not the same as scamming but questionable nonetheless.
As per Marketplacer Rule #1:
The XDA-Developers.com Market Place, hereafter MP, is provided free to members with at least 8 posts at XDA-Developers.com. XDA-Developers.com, its moderators, administrators, owners and legal advisors do not warrant, guarantee or endorse any item offered for sale or trade on this forum.
SIMPLE ENGLISH: Trade at your own Risk.
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We have many Senior moderators who actively monitor the Marketplace forum We don't need anymore.
XDA will not get actively involved in a Marketplace dispute under normal circumstances. And we will never act as a "middle man". The above quoted rule underlines this.
Just to elaborate on what the_scotsman says above.
There are resource issues in providing checks on those trading in the Marketplace. We simply don't have these resources in terms of people to monitor trades, or systems to test or validate Users.
Equally, we do not have the resources to investigate when things go wrong. Inevitably in such cases, there will be conflicting accounts of what has happened and we have no way to prove or disprove the claims that are made by the parties in dispute. This is not an area with which we would ever suggest we can become involved.
Just occassionally we will disable the account of a member if there are repeated claims that purchased items have not been received, but Users should NEVER assume that we are checking sellers, because we are not.
We have no plans to bring in a checking system because with the resources we have, we simply wish to provide a basic noticeboard for sellers and a forum for threads where the transaction can be conducted in public. We do not Moderate the Marketplace except in a very cursory way, because it cannot be done reliably and more importantly it would give the FALSE impression that we were checking and validating the trades and sales in the Forum; in other words it might make buyers feel more secure in buying and yet the risk is ALL theirs.
It may be possible for us to implement some kind of User rating system whereby Users, not Moderators or Admin, can rate a Member according to how well or badly a sale/trade has gone. I understand this is being considered. Nevertheless, it would still be "buyer beware!".
If you are looking to buy and want guarantees and insurance if things go wrong, then our Marketplace Forum is not the place to buy! That said, if you are tempted to buy, then it may be possible for you to carry out some checks yourself, by looking at post history, previous sales if any and perhaps even a few checks using Google. You might also prefer to deal only with Members you have known over many months, even years!
Mike
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In general, we consider apps that can prove demand for their product- either through sheer sales, market research, surveys, etc. We invest in serious people, not merely ideas.
Good luck to everyone in their projects!
PS: Please feel free to reply publicly on this post if you wish. From time to time, we may reply. But can't guarantee it depending on how busy we get.