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Ok, I am been a big fan of WP7 since day 1, I now have a bad feeling I have been duped.
Given what we are seeing with the current update, the pre update update and what I and others are being told by carriers about "testing" imagine this scenario.
21.2.11 Microsoft release pre-update update carrier will forward it only after 8 weeks "testing" phase.
8.3.11 Microsoft release NoDo, carrier decides to skip this one
21.4.11 Carrier releases pre-update update to consumers
15.11.11 Microsoft release Mango (late 2011)
16.11.11 Carrier announces Mango will be released with NoDo rolled in after another 8 week "testing" phase.
16.01.12 Consumers get NoDo/ Mango update.
Yes friends, you could end up waiting a full 15 months from the UK launch of WP7 before you get any sort of significant update! "But we knew about the carriers option to skip an update" you say, but we did not know that MS release dates are useless because carriers are allowed to add 2 or 3 months for "testing", this on top of a barely acceptable update cycle from MS. Even if your carrier gets NoDo, that gives them the option to skip Mango in which case, who knows when you will get any functionality beyond C&P (meh).
I am stuck on a 24 month contract with a phone which will possibly not get a full feature set until near the end of that contract and I am pissed at how stupid I have been not to have worked this out before I signed up. My advice? If you really want a WP7 wait until you can get a properly SIM free one that is not tied to any carrier.
I feel you, but don't be like my wife and judge guilty before the crime
It hasn't happened yet, and though I share the sentiment of the jist of your post, remember to base your mindset on fact, not hypothesis.
In a years time, we will know if we truly were duped. You had to know it was a gamble when you signed up, and now the risk is being realised. Just trust in Microsoft to do the right thing, and raise hell if they don't.
adesonic said:
Ok, I am been a big fan of WP7 since day 1, I now have a bad feeling I have been duped.
Given what we are seeing with the current update, the pre update update and what I and others are being told by carriers about "testing" imagine this scenario.
21.2.11 Microsoft release pre-update update carrier will forward it only after 8 weeks "testing" phase.
8.3.11 Microsoft release NoDo, carrier decides to skip this one
21.4.11 Carrier releases pre-update update to consumers
15.11.11 Microsoft release Mango (late 2011)
16.11.11 Carrier announces Mango will be released with NoDo rolled in after another 8 week "testing" phase.
16.01.12 Consumers get NoDo/ Mango update.
Yes friends, you could end up waiting a full 15 months from the UK launch of WP7 before you get any sort of significant update! "But we knew about the carriers option to skip an update" you say, but we did not know that MS release dates are useless because carriers are allowed to add 2 or 3 months for "testing", this on top of a barely acceptable update cycle from MS. Even if your carrier gets NoDo, that gives them the option to skip Mango in which case, who knows when you will get any functionality beyond C&P (meh).
I am stuck on a 24 month contract with a phone which will possibly not get a full feature set until near the end of that contract and I am pissed at how stupid I have been not to have worked this out before I signed up. My advice? If you really want a WP7 wait until you can get a properly SIM free one that is not tied to any carrier.
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Click to collapse
I'm afraid your carrier testing dates and deadlines are incorrect.
8 weeks is what 2 carriers in the UK have said to consumers here
OP doesn't make sense to me.
This 'pre' update went to carriers for testing ages ago.
If a carrier skips an update they have to rollout the next update, which will have to include the skipped update.
digime said:
OP doesn't make sense to me.
This 'pre' update went to carriers for testing ages ago.
If a carrier skips an update they have to rollout the next update, which will have to include the skipped update.
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Click to collapse
This is what I read from Microsoft as well, they can skip 1, but they have to push out the next update which also includes the previous one.
adesonic said:
Ok, I am been a big fan of WP7 since day 1, I now have a bad feeling I have been duped.
Given what we are seeing with the current update, the pre update update and what I and others are being told by carriers about "testing" imagine this scenario.
21.2.11 Microsoft release pre-update update carrier will forward it only after 8 weeks "testing" phase.
8.3.11 Microsoft release NoDo, carrier decides to skip this one
21.4.11 Carrier releases pre-update update to consumers
15.11.11 Microsoft release Mango (late 2011)
16.11.11 Carrier announces Mango will be released with NoDo rolled in after another 8 week "testing" phase.
16.01.12 Consumers get NoDo/ Mango update.
Yes friends, you could end up waiting a full 15 months from the UK launch of WP7 before you get any sort of significant update! "But we knew about the carriers option to skip an update" you say, but we did not know that MS release dates are useless because carriers are allowed to add 2 or 3 months for "testing", this on top of a barely acceptable update cycle from MS. Even if your carrier gets NoDo, that gives them the option to skip Mango in which case, who knows when you will get any functionality beyond C&P (meh).
I am stuck on a 24 month contract with a phone which will possibly not get a full feature set until near the end of that contract and I am pissed at how stupid I have been not to have worked this out before I signed up. My advice? If you really want a WP7 wait until you can get a properly SIM free one that is not tied to any carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you were duped: you signed a contract, for a phone.
as far as updates, microsoft has been promising "this is the best windows ever!" since win95. at least you don't have to buy a cd for wp7 updates, if they ever come.
btw, android 3.0 sdk was released , that means. yet another bump for android, like now. hmmm duped indeed.
I suggest waiting until that all gets laid out. Microsoft has been paying attention to the mobile world. I think it is taking the better aspects of Android and iOS. If this is true, they know how important software updates are. They do not want all of the update issues Android has. Trust me. Those voices from the Android crowd are starting to get rather loud boasting about devices being left in the dust, or simply getting an update 6-10 months after the update was released.
As for the new Android sdk, it's tablet only for the moment. The next phone update will be 2.4 that will really bring extra functionality. Heck, Google's own developer phone, the Nexus One is just starting to get the latest update to Gingerbread. Thats over 2 months after it was announced with Nexus S. XDA released it before Google did!
Bottom line, be loud about the updates, but don't speculate. It sounds fine when you do it, but all it does is get you worked up for no real reason. Enjoy the phone for what you bought it for. As key as updates are, you should still buy your phone for what it does now.
This why I am going to wait at least a year or two before I go out and buy a WP7 device, they have so much to work out before it is a functional daily device, but I think in the end they will work all this out.
Me too... I've been looking for a replacement for my ageing sghI780, and as of now the best bet is an android based one. As much as I like the WP7 interface, I want a phone that I can customize anytime I want, with a true offline and not to mention free GPS navigation. I also use my phone to carry important files with me, plus a videos and music files to while away the time. There's a lot of holes that need to be filled in WP7 for the moment. Until those are fulfilled, then I will not own a WP7 device anytime soon. Maybe I'll just get a Galaxy S for the meantime.
I don't feel duped. I knew I was buying into an early mobile os. There is little functionality I miss in day to day operation, and I'm confident that my phone is going to get an update in early march.
Now, if that update for some reason never comes, then I would start to worry, but until then, why cause any more stress than I need to?
digime said:
OP doesn't make sense to me.
This 'pre' update went to carriers for testing ages ago.
If a carrier skips an update they have to rollout the next update, which will have to include the skipped update.
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Click to collapse
If this update went to caariers for testing ages ago, why are carriers telling consumers they cannot release it because they have a 6 to 8 week testing cycle o go through? I am not bothered about this specific update, nor am I bothered by the "carriers can skip one update thing" what bothers me is that we now have to add an indeterminate length of time (6 weeks? 8 weeks?) to whatever date MS give for an update
ohgood said:
yes you were duped: you signed a contract, for a phone.
as far as updates, microsoft has been promising "this is the best windows ever!" since win95. at least you don't have to buy a cd for wp7 updates, if they ever come.
btw, android 3.0 sdk was released , that means. yet another bump for android, like now. hmmm duped indeed.
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Click to collapse
Come on OhGood. You know better than that. The last OS to boast about updates has to be Android.
I'll be sure to send your baseless plug to Google.
Well lets look at it this way. MS's original, public pitch for WP7 was that updates will come solely from them, with no inteference from carriers, OEM's, tooth fairies or frost giants. Now what has been unveiled, not by MS themselves publicly but by bloggers like Paul Thurrott is that the reality is carriers have the power, just like before, to insert themselves into the update process and delay or block updates as they see fit and again here we are, scrambling around trying to find out where our updates are.
It doesnt really matter if they have to pass the next update after a blocked one, conceivably they can do their "testing" for an indeterminable length of time and still in effect block that update as well. The reality today regarding updates is a far cry from what MS publicly promised, and in typical MS style all mention of that is missing from their website or from any MS official.
Duped, misled, hoodwinked, call it what you will, the truth of the matter is updates are NOT solely controlled by MS, contrary to what was originally claimed and that is not a nice thing to discover AFTER buying the device. It may or may not be better than android's so called "fragmentation" but in reality it pretty much results in the same thing, pissed off users.
Fortunately I'm not on a contract with my WP7. And mine is already sim-unlocked. I wonder if I could put a foreign sim in and see if the update would happen?
The only contract I'm in right now is for my iPhone, which is a sure bet.
theo80 said:
Me too... I've been looking for a replacement for my ageing sghI780, and as of now the best bet is an android based one. As much as I like the WP7 interface, I want a phone that I can customize anytime I want, with a true offline and not to mention free GPS navigation. I also use my phone to carry important files with me, plus a videos and music files to while away the time. There's a lot of holes that need to be filled in WP7 for the moment. Until those are fulfilled, then I will not own a WP7 device anytime soon. Maybe I'll just get a Galaxy S for the meantime.
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I'd wait just a little bit and get a galaxy S2
efjay said:
Duped, misled, hoodwinked, call it what you will, the truth of the matter is updates are NOT solely controlled by MS, contrary to what was originally claimed and that is not a nice thing to discover AFTER buying the device.
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Click to collapse
While this may or may not be true (according to bloggers it is - I'm not arguing either way) I very much doubt this pre-update would have gone thru the carriers at all. Microsoft always said smaller updates would be delivered directly. If this isn't considered a small update I don't know what is. More pointing to this fact is that most carriers don't seem to have a clue about the update - sure, they may state there's an internal testing period of x weeks, but these people don't have a clue; they read from a script. If your question doesn't exactly match one available in their script they will pick the closest one - which in this case may have been an Android update.
That said, I don't see why the carriers would block updates at all - unless they include features specifically forbidden on the network in question (i.e. VoIP and similar services). The networks have no financial interest in blocking the updates, on the contrary they should get them out the door as fast as humanly possible to keep their customers happy. OEMs on the other hand does have a financial interest in holding off on delivering updates as it means they can produce an almost identical phone with the latest greatest OS included.
In any case, if carriers were looped in here we would have seen evidence of this. Either by me receiving an update before my wife (I've got an unbranded O7, she's got a TMODE branded O7) or by lots of people complain that their X branded device still hasn't received an update. We haven't seen this, at all. Looking at various surveys online it's pretty clear that devices from just about every network have received the pre-update. Microsoft did state it was a staggered release, so the fact that person Y has received his while person Z hasn't isn't evidence of a carrier blocking it IMO.
Dunno if ive missed something but what network has actually blocked you from receiving the update?
ohgood said:
yes you were duped: you signed a contract, for a phone.
as far as updates, microsoft has been promising "this is the best windows ever!" since win95. at least you don't have to buy a cd for wp7 updates, if they ever come.
btw, android 3.0 sdk was released , that means. yet another bump for android, like now. hmmm duped indeed.
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Click to collapse
Stupid analogy. Sounds like you bought into the Apple propaganda commercials, which funny enough you see alot less of since Windows 7 (because Windows 7 is actually decent). Every Windows after 95 has been better.
Android Updates:
1.0 ...5mths... 1.1 ...1mth... 1.5 ...5mths... 1.6 ...1mths... 2.0/2.1 ...7mths... 2.2 ...7mths...
Windows Updates:
1.0 ...?... 1.x and we are 4 months into the offering.
Seriously.
efjay said:
Well lets look at it this way. MS's original, public pitch for WP7 was that updates will come solely from them, with no inteference from carriers, OEM's, tooth fairies or frost giants. Now what has been unveiled, not by MS themselves publicly but by bloggers like Paul Thurrott is that the reality is carriers have the power, just like before, to insert themselves into the update process and delay or block updates as they see fit and again here we are, scrambling around trying to find out where our updates are.
It doesnt really matter if they have to pass the next update after a blocked one, conceivably they can do their "testing" for an indeterminable length of time and still in effect block that update as well. The reality today regarding updates is a far cry from what MS publicly promised, and in typical MS style all mention of that is missing from their website or from any MS official.
Duped, misled, hoodwinked, call it what you will, the truth of the matter is updates are NOT solely controlled by MS, contrary to what was originally claimed and that is not a nice thing to discover AFTER buying the device. It may or may not be better than android's so called "fragmentation" but in reality it pretty much results in the same thing, pissed off users.
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Click to collapse
Listening to the Windows Weekly podcast is painful & funny at the same time. You can hear & see Paul Thurrott's frustration & his enthusiasm for WP7 slipping away week after week. At the beginning he was gushing over WP7 but now not so much.
One day I fully expect him to announce this is his last podcast, given all the disappointment he's had with WP7, Zune & Windows Home Server.
I don't understand why Android is such a pain in the ass to update? yakju vs. yakjuxw!? Samsung vs. Google? Some people getting 4.0.2 a month ago and some people still not having it!?
With iOS everybody gets the update at the same time and it's simple as pie. You're not going to see one person checking for an update and receiving it and another person checking for an update and showing "Your system is currently up to date." You're not going to see two identical phones from the same area on the same network showing two different status's.
What's crazy is that there are a LOT more iOS devices than there are Android 4 devices so if anything you would expect Apple to be forces to stagger updates! Why is it Google that needs to do this? Maybe I'm just venting b/c 4.0.3 is around the corner and my device is still stuck on 4.0.1. Just doesn't make sense to me.
The update for 4.0.2 was halted. That's why you haven't received it.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/android-4-0-2-ota-update-for-galaxy-nexus-rolling-out-again/
OTAs are now back in effect.
Not to mention iOS is only on LITTLE amounts of devices. All these devices are unified and share the same features and specs. All iPhone 4S are identical, iPhone 4 identical, and so forth.
Android is open to all so there are more devices. Nexus devices are handled by Google (yakju, mysid). Manufacturers handle their own phones (Galaxy S2, RAZR, etc) and apply their own skins delaying OTAs.
Not to mention ICS is only on <2% of Android versions. You should be lucky that you're running Android 4.0+ you won't even notice much as it's optimization and bug fixes behind the scene. If it bothers you, flash a custom ROM with 4.0.3 on it.
Calm yourself. They stagger updates to prevent widespread bug issues. It also keeps the servers from being overloaded like what happens with iOS updates (takes hours to download and update). Also, iOS updates are done through the computer and not OTA.
You'll get the updates when you get them. If you dont want to take matters into your own hands and flash the updates manually, then dont complain. Its really as simple as that. I just got my 4.0.2 update yesterday. Type *#*#CHECKIN#*#* into your dialer and see if that helps push the update
spitefulcheerio said:
Calm yourself. They stagger updates to prevent widespread bug issues. It also keeps the servers from being overloaded like what happens with iOS updates (takes hours to download and update). Also, iOS updates are done through the computer and not OTA.
You'll get the updates when you get them. If you dont want to take matters into your own hands and flash the updates manually, then dont complain. Its really as simple as that. I just got my 4.0.2 update yesterday. Type *#*#CHECKIN#*#* into your dialer and see if that helps push the update
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Click to collapse
iOS can be done OTA now.. http://www.macworld.com/article/163526/2011/11/hands_on_with_ios_over_the_air_updates.html
It doesn't matter who updates your device and if you have yakju or yakjuux. Everyone gets updates.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
zephiK said:
The update for 4.0.2 was halted.
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Click to collapse
Its rolling out again
spitefulcheerio said:
Its rolling out again
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Yeah I edited my post again to say it's in effect again. I linked the article but forgot to mention that. Thanks.
zephiK said:
The update for 4.0.2 was halted. That's why you haven't received it.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/android-4-0-2-ota-update-for-galaxy-nexus-rolling-out-again/
OTAs are now back in effect.
Not to mention iOS is only on LITTLE amounts of devices. All these devices are unified and share the same features and specs. All iPhone 4S are identical, iPhone 4 identical, and so forth.
Android is open to all so there are more devices. Nexus devices are handled by Google (yakju, mysid). Manufacturers handle their own phones (Galaxy S2, RAZR, etc) and apply their own skins delaying OTAs.
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I understand the update was halted but even when its not, it takes weeks to get out to everyone
iOS 5 was updated on a LOTTTTT more devices than Android 4.0.2.
I didn't ask about manufacturer skin updated, I'm only talking about the Nexus device right now (in particular the Galaxy Nexus). Being that Google and Samsung are updating it for everyone, why is it taking so damn long to update!? Everyone should be able to update at the same time and as they wish (like iOS). Being that manufacturers are all doing their own updates, there won't be anywhere CLOSE to as many Android devices updating at any given time as there are iOS devices which are all always on the same OS and updated simultaneously.
spitefulcheerio said:
Calm yourself. They stagger updates to prevent widespread bug issues. It also keeps the servers from being overloaded like what happens with iOS updates (takes hours to download and update). Also, iOS updates are done through the computer and not OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the difference if there are bug issues on some devices or all devices?! Either way they're gonna have to be fixed. Official updates aren't released until after testing for a reason!
Apple servers may overload on iOS updates but that just forces users to wait a few hours...not a few weeks! I don't see how that's a bad thing at all. Also, iOS updates have had the option to update OTA since iOS5 was released.
spitefulcheerio said:
I just got my 4.0.2 update yesterday. Type *#*#CHECKIN#*#* into your dialer and see if that helps push the update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks just tried that but didn't help
NextNexus said:
What's the difference is there are bug issues on some devices or all devices?! Either way they're gonna have to be fixed. Official updates aren't released until after testing for a reason!
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Is that a serious question? If you have a bug on 10,000 devices it is immensely easier to take care of than a bug on 100,000 devices. Updates aren't released until after testing but bugs still get out. Look at iOS with their awesome battery bug that got out.
joshnichols189 said:
Is that a serious question? If you have a bug on 10,000 devices it is immensely easier to take care of than a bug on 100,000 devices. Updates aren't released until after testing but bugs still get out. Look at iOS with their awesome battery bug that got out.
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Click to collapse
Once again, it's a lot harder to take care of if you're updating devices over multiple weeks. If devices could be updated within a matter of hours it wouldn't be harder to take care of at all. All comes back to the same issue.
joshnichols189 said:
Is that a serious question? If you have a bug on 10,000 devices it is immensely easier to take care of than a bug on 100,000 devices. Updates aren't released until after testing but bugs still get out. Look at iOS with their awesome battery bug that got out.
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+infinity
Google is being smarting updating in waves and seeing what each new wave brings. Then the next wave contains the little fixes like what recently happened with 4.0.2. Really, the only official updates would be 4.1, 4.2, ect. 4.0.x updates technically aren't "official" big updates
NextNexus said:
I understand the update was halted but even when its not, it takes weeks to get out to everyone
iOS 5 was updated on a LOTTTTT more devices than Android 4.0.2.
I didn't ask about manufacturer skin updated, I'm only talking about the Nexus device right now (in particular the Galaxy Nexus). Being that Google and Samsung are updating it for everyone, why is it taking so damn long to update!? Everyone should be able to update at the same time and as they wish (like iOS). Being that manufacturers are all doing their own updates, there won't be anywhere CLOSE to as many Android devices updating at any given time as there are iOS devices which are all always on the same OS and updated simultaneously.
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That's what a OTA is, it's "Over the Air" it rolls out in batches.
If everybody got the update all at the same time then downloads for the file would be significantly slower. That's why we have XDA, people obtain the download link before actually accepting it and share it. By sharing it, we can get the link and apply it manually.
All the OTA simply does is tell your phone, "hey heres the download link.. click this and it'll download" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1419170
Google undergoes a lot of tests to bugfix their updates. After these tests are done and verified as stable, they release it in batches via OTA. These batches are like beta testers, and they will beta test it. If all is good, it will go to the next batch and slowly expand that way.
Not to mention, 4.0.2 was released on Google's website with STOCK IMAGES. You could of applied this yourself and have 4.0.2. Don't complain if you're unwilling to take control of your phone's updates when the resources are there to manually update your phone to 4.0.2 or even 4.0.3.
And you never said Galaxy Nexus, you called out the whole Android OS. You compared Android OS to iOS (hence "Android update system" compared to "iOS"). It a simple fact that manufacturer skins delay OTAs because they have to waste time and money to port their skins onto the new update.
All I'm saying is that the sources to update your phone are there. You can't say it "sucks" when the links and tools are out there but you don't want to manually update it. Instead you want a popup saying its available for your phone. Manually updating your phone doesn't affect future OTAs.
Edit: here's the link that the OTA would give you..... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=21320324&postcount=82
manually flash it in stock recovery (or CWR.. shouldn't matter).
All the OTA is a simple popup saying update is here, click here to get it. It's simply just spoon feeding you the link. It's the same exact file you'd get from the OTA.
zephiK said:
That's what a OTA is, it's "Over the Air" it rolls out in batches.
If everybody got the update all at the same time then downloads for the file would be significantly slower. That's why we have XDA, people obtain the download link before actually accepting it and share it. By sharing it, we can get the link and apply it manually.
All the OTA simply does is tell your phone, "hey heres the download link.. click this and it'll download" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1419170
Google undergoes a lot of tests to bugfix their updates. After these tests are done and verified as stable, they release it in batches via OTA. These batches are like beta testers, and they will beta test it. If all is good, it will go to the next batch and slowly expand that way.
Not to mention, 4.0.2 was released on Google's website with STOCK IMAGES. You could of applied this yourself and have 4.0.2. Don't complain if you're unwilling to take control of your phone's updates when the resources are there to manually update your phone to 4.0.2 or even 4.0.3.
And you never said Galaxy Nexus, you called out the whole Android OS. You compared Android OS to iOS (hence "Android update system" compared to "iOS"). It a simple fact that manufacturer skins delay OTAs because they have to waste time and money to port their skins onto the new update.
All I'm saying is that the sources to update your phone are there. You can't say it "sucks" when the links and tools are out there but you don't want to manually update it. Instead you want a popup saying its available for your phone. Manually updating your phone doesn't affect future OTAs.
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Fair enough...I should have said Nexus vs. iOS b/c that's the only fair comparison. And are you saying if I direct my device to the appropriate link in the thread you posted that my phone will update? If it's that easy then I stand corrected...otherwise, I stand by what I said.
NextNexus said:
Fair enough...I should have said Nexus vs. iOS b/c that's the only fair comparison. And are you saying if I direct my device to the appropriate link in the thread you posted that my phone will update? If it's that easy then I stand corrected...otherwise, I stand by what I said.
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Yes I just editted my post with the link that the OTA would give you. Someone obtained it with a logcat (or app that keeps track of what goes behind the scene).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=21320324&postcount=82 just manually flash it. If you use stock recovery then rename the file to update.zip and put it in the root of your sdcard.
Edit: and if you're rooted... https://market.android.com/details?...m9yZy5wcm9qZWN0dm9vZG9vLm90YXJvb3RrZWVwZXIiXQ.. use that to keep root.
the obvious answer to this thread is that apple is one company that controls everything. this nexus has two companies involved, each wanting to do updates for one of the versions. dont ask me why this is, but its easy to see how this type of setup could not be optimal.
Haha well I just went to check for updates and lo and behold 4.0.2 was FINALLY there! Irony at it's finest...updating now.
NextNexus said:
Haha well I just went to check for updates and lo and behold 4.0.2 was FINALLY there! Irony at it's finest...updating now.
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Yeah mine just came through as well... I have to say, barring updates being halted (very rare occurrence from Google btw), they always say and allow themselve a couple of weeks, but I have always gotten my update within about 4-5 days of first reports, and usually within a day or two.
And having lived through the past few generations of both Android phones (mine) and iPhones (my sisters), there really isn't too much difference (except up until iOS5 a few months ago she had to sit around a computer). Sure she might get them that night, but it takes her literally ~5-6 hours because everyone is rushing to download it, when within a day or two I usually have it.
What is truly annoying is when you are on a non-Google Experience device (AKA G1, Nexus line, Xoom, etc are Google Experience, almost everything else is not), and waiting 4-infinity months for your upgrade because of BOTH custom overlays AND carrier testing/bloat.
The beauty of Android that is not and will not be open to iPhones is that we have extremely capable devs who watch the AOSP repositories like hawks to bring everyone the latest and greatest they can, in near real-time, direct from Google engineers. On iOS one has to wait until the carefully controlled dev releases get pushed out from the magic garden to get a sneak peek.
s.m.knipe said:
Yeah mine just came through as well... I have to say, barring updates being halted (very rare occurrence from Google btw), they always say and allow themselve a couple of weeks, but I have always gotten my update within about 4-5 days of first reports, and usually within a day or two.
And having lived through the past few generations of both Android phones (mine) and iPhones (my sisters), there really isn't too much difference (except up until iOS5 a few months ago she had to sit around a computer). Sure she might get them that night, but it takes her literally ~5-6 hours because everyone is rushing to download it, when within a day or two I usually have it.
What is truly annoying is when you are on a non-Google Experience device (AKA G1, Nexus line, Xoom, etc are Google Experience, almost everything else is not), and waiting 4-infinity months for your upgrade because of BOTH custom overlays AND carrier testing/bloat.
The beauty of Android that is not and will not be open to iPhones is that we have extremely capable devs who watch the AOSP repositories like hawks to bring everyone the latest and greatest they can, in near real-time, direct from Google engineers. On iOS one has to wait until the carefully controlled dev releases get pushed out from the magic garden to get a sneak peek.
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Not sure what is wrong with your sisters internet but I've never had to wait 5-6 hours for an iOS update to download on the day it came out. My biggest issue with the roll out is that there is no communication from Google at all. The users had to figure out that the update was halted only after nobody reported an update for a few weeks.
All in honesty though. Seeing that the OTAs was back in progress since late last night. And considering it hasn't been 24 hours, I think this voids the idea that "Android system updates suck" even if you don't manually flash the update.
I just think it's a lack of announcement on Google's part on announcing the halt of 4.0.2 where I only read that there was a halt on 4.0.3 for Nexus S.
@s.m.knipe: Agreed with manufacturer skins. Try using a Galaxy S where Samsung will refuse to update Galaxy S, a best-seller phone because it cannot fit because of TouchWiz... or all of these other manufacturers releasing phones (CES 2011) with Gingerbread. The only non-Nexus device manufacturer I trust will be ASUS because they come out with timely fashioned updates. Be grateful you're running ICS in the first place.
I like Android more than iphone but at least with iPhone you usually know some of the fixes that are in the works.
I don't know if a radio fix is coming with the next OTA update
I don't knonw when (if) I'll see an update for the Verizon Galaxy Nexus - I'm pretty sure I will but who is to say 100% other than Verizon or Android - tons of rumors like the 4.04 update and the 4.05 update etc but nothing concrete.
I suppose I'm kind of *****in but I'm also pretty sure they could make ALL of their clients happier if they released SOME info. E.g. a radio fix is in the works... or we'll have 4.04 for Verizon customers within 2 months - anything is better than nothing even if they don't' go into tremendous specfics.
Just my opinion of course.
boe said:
I like Android more than iphone but at least with iPhone you usually know some of the fixes that are in the works.
I don't know if a radio fix is coming with the next OTA update
I don't knonw when (if) I'll see an update for the Verizon Galaxy Nexus - I'm pretty sure I will but who is to say 100% other than Verizon or Android - tons of rumors like the 4.04 update and the 4.05 update etc but nothing concrete.
I suppose I'm kind of *****in but I'm also pretty sure they could make ALL of their clients happier if they released SOME info. E.g. a radio fix is in the works... or we'll have 4.04 for Verizon customers within 2 months - anything is better than nothing even if they don't' go into tremendous specfics.
Just my opinion of course.
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Click to collapse
We can always wish, but it has never been that way for any other device, so why would it change now?
Ive often wondered why they cant give us generic montly statements or something. Put an intern on it or something. 5 min of time once a month from an intern would be so easy.
boe said:
I like Android more than iphone but at least with iPhone you usually know some of the fixes that are in the works.
I don't know if a radio fix is coming with the next OTA update
I don't knonw when (if) I'll see an update for the Verizon Galaxy Nexus - I'm pretty sure I will but who is to say 100% other than Verizon or Android - tons of rumors like the 4.04 update and the 4.05 update etc but nothing concrete.
I suppose I'm kind of *****in but I'm also pretty sure they could make ALL of their clients happier if they released SOME info. E.g. a radio fix is in the works... or we'll have 4.04 for Verizon customers within 2 months - anything is better than nothing even if they don't' go into tremendous specfics.
Just my opinion of course.
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Click to collapse
I feel the same way.
RogerPodacter said:
Ive often wondered why they cant give us generic montly statements or something. Put an intern on it or something. 5 min of time once a month from an intern would be so easy.
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Click to collapse
That would be fantastic. Even if it said this month - update coming in June - that would be better than me hoping I might find a rumor that might seem credible. Then I'd know where to get genuine news relating to my device on MY carrier.
I am a looong time nexus user and I dont wish this anymore because I know it wont happend. Google works this way.
The only more or less "sure" thing is that when they say that it will be released in a couple of week is because it is already deployed in most employees devices for a long test and it will in fact be released in 2-3 weeks.
Google works this way because they don't have a ETA for when things are complete.
That's like saying telling CyanogenMod that you want more communication between them and the users so that they can post a timeline on when RC1/RC2 will be complete etc.
Things are just done when they're done.
RogerPodacter said:
Ive often wondered why they cant give us generic montly statements or something. Put an intern on it or something. 5 min of time once a month from an intern would be so easy.
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Click to collapse
Because...when something goes wrong, and they do not make their timeline, people would throw a fit, even more than they do now.
As others have mentioned, expecting any sort of ETA is completely unreasonable.
But honestly, this whole upgrade experience has been pretty underwhelming for two reasons: lack of communication and very slow speed. The volume bug -- a completely show-stopping bug -- took two weeks for a fix. I highly doubt it would take Apple that long to issue a software fix for such a serious bug. Sorry to bring Apple into the discussion, but it's true.
Not to mention that it's taken Google FIVE months to get NFC to be fully functional...
At the end of the day, having relatively quick updates of stock Android will probably keep me with Nexus devices, but an advertised and guaranteed monthly status update? That would be a killer USP. The silence between 4.0.2 and 4.0.4 was absolutely terrible.
boe said:
I like Android more than iphone but at least with iPhone you usually know some of the fixes that are in the works.
I don't know if a radio fix is coming with the next OTA update
I don't knonw when (if) I'll see an update for the Verizon Galaxy Nexus - I'm pretty sure I will but who is to say 100% other than Verizon or Android - tons of rumors like the 4.04 update and the 4.05 update etc but nothing concrete.
I suppose I'm kind of *****in but I'm also pretty sure they could make ALL of their clients happier if they released SOME info. E.g. a radio fix is in the works... or we'll have 4.04 for Verizon customers within 2 months - anything is better than nothing even if they don't' go into tremendous specfics.
Just my opinion of course.
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Click to collapse
Yes it sounds great, but it would just make things worse.
People would be exponentially more angry if they gave progress reports and they didn't go where people wanted. They'd complain even more because they'd know it wasn't fixing the way they wanted it to be fixed. And as soon as they promise a timetable and are unable to deliver, all hell would break loose. Either that, or they give a timetable too far in the future to keep from hurting themselves, and people complain the timetable is too far out.
Google and Verizon aren't just sitting on their asses doing nothing. They're working. Its downright insulting saying that Google isn't working hard on these updates. Just be patient ffs.
martonikaj said:
Yes it sounds great, but it would just make things worse.
People would be exponentially more angry if they gave progress reports and they didn't go where people wanted. They'd complain even more because they'd know it wasn't fixing the way they wanted it to be fixed. And as soon as they promise a timetable and are unable to deliver, all hell would break loose. Either that, or they give a timetable too far in the future to keep from hurting themselves, and people complain the timetable is too far out.
Google and Verizon aren't just sitting on their asses doing nothing. They're working. Its downright insulting saying that Google isn't working hard on these updates. Just be patient ffs.
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Agreed. Also with Google (or the manufacturer doing updates) it has to be approved by the carrier UNLESS you're using the GSM model of Galaxy Nexus which is independent of any carrier.
This is from a news article I read yesterday,
“HTC has delivered a ROM to us however it is still having issues the reason that other sensation types have the update without issue and ours did not come out that way is because every ROM must be adapted to the hardware of the device because we use a different radio than other providers and also have applications such as wifi calling it also has to be compatible with those. What the HTC rep told you is most likely correct because once a ROM is delivered we have 2 weeks to test it and then approve it or send it back they then have 4 weeks to fix the bugs and return it back to us, where we are exactly in that process I do not know but that is how a ROM is delivered to the customer.
The original ROM was not delivered to us in November, we started testing it just recently but I think it has been longer than 2 weeks so at this point HTC most likely has the ball.
You bought a phone and it has been announced that you are getting ICS you have every right to know what’s going on with it and when you can see these awesome features. I did go into a lot of detail about how a ROM gets to the end user (you guys) but that wasn’t to point fingers only so you would have a better understanding of why you don’t have it yet, the bottom line is the Sensation has T-Mobile’s and HTC’s name all over it and both companies want to make you proud to be a Sensation owner so we are working as fast as we can to deliver it but also want to make sure that it stands up to your expectations.”
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tl;dr it says that, the ROM that HTC made didn't meet T-Mobile's expectations and has to be fixed by HTC... then sent to T-Mobile to test the ROM equalizing MORE delay
I know OP has Verizon, but that's kind of your fault for using Verizon. We all know how it is when it comes to Verizon and keeping a tight control over their phones. I personally don't consider Galaxy Nexus (LTE) to be a "Nexus" device. It comes bloated with VZW apps, Verizon has to approve the update by Google, Factory images are no longer uploaded, etc.
Kind of off-topic but I'd love to see the idea of Google buying T-Mobile USA from Deutsche Telekom (owners of T-Mobile USA) then we would never have to worry about carriers trying to keep a tight grip on their phones. Not to mention then tight integration between Google services such as Google Voice would be tightly integrated between the carrier and Google services. Just a dream of mines.
Oh lord. Not another 'The Verizon Nexus is not a Nexus device' comment.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
adrynalyne said:
Because...when something goes wrong, and they do not make their timeline, people would throw a fit, even more than they do now.
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Click to collapse
But I'm not asking for an eta or timeline. Just something like "here's what we're doing this month, or even this quarter."
adrynalyne said:
Oh lord. Not another 'The Verizon Nexus is not a Nexus device' comment.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA
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Yea, everyone knows true Nexus devices only come with half the storage space and only on less desirable carriers.
TiltedAz said:
Yea, everyone knows true Nexus devices only come with half the storage space and only on less desirable carriers.
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Ah, my bad
I'm gonna guess the OTA will come with the white 16 gig version on April 5th, and that the white Gnexs will come with 4.0.5 loaded. Just a hunch. The rumors have been early April, so on Thursday or that weekend is my guess.
Well, I don't know about everyone else, but my "fake" Nexus has had 4.0.4 for a long time now. I've seen 2 updates since I bought my Nexus (fairly early after release). Not EVERY update comes via OTA. The Nexus line has ALWAYS been like this. At any rate, my 3 month old "fake and unsupported" Nexus has already seen more updates than my Vibrant ever did.
As far as GSM users complaining over updates, shut up. Your phones didn't need the updates that Google implemented for the CDMA version. I don't want fixes for a phone that isn't mine. I don't want Google releasing something that isn't ready. Radio issues are up to Samsung and the carrier, not Google. Stop whining about Google. Stop thinking Google is the hold up. Google isn't the hold up. Samsung is the hold up. If you have a CDMA version, blame Samsung and Verizon. If you're GSM, place the blame where it largely belongs, on Samsung.
For some reason 80% of people on this forum seem to think that Nexus means that you get an update every month or something like that. Like we should be on 4.1.7 by now or something like that. It's the most insanely retarded community I think I've ever seen in my life.
As a member of the choir and a Verizon customer for12 years
.....
Keep preaching.
TiltedAz said:
Yea, everyone knows true Nexus devices only come with half the storage space and only on less desirable carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon is a less-desirable carrier for me. Just sayin'.
boe said:
I like Android more than iphone but at least with iPhone you usually know some of the fixes that are in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and since when do you know about iphone updates before release? Apple is the most secretive tech company ever. They only comment on issues when they get really out of hand and media goes all over it (like the recent address book privacy issues or the better known antennagate).
iOS does have private betas though, which is kinda the equivalent of aosp for android in terms of release schedules. aosp 4.0.4 >>> 8 months >>> oem 4.0.4 updates
So the International unlocked version got their Jelly Bean update today. Man! Why doesn't Sammy hire some of these devs on here to speed up the freaking process!!
Edit: Sorry Sammy its not your fault its the freaking carriers!! Bastards!!! thanks Andy!
Edit again: OK Sammy im putting you back in the crap house!!! bastards!!! thanks intub8!
White Hot! GS3.
blame the carriers.
andy2na said:
blame the carriers.
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Its not Sammy...definitely the money grubbing carriers in the US...its pathetic
Oh I see thanks for sharing! Will change OP freaking carriers!!!! Lol.....
White Hot! GS3.
andy2na said:
blame the carriers.
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Samsung is not innocent. Blame them also. Samsung can easily say no to the major carriers and push the update to us through kies. We will not get the update until 30-60 days after the next flagship device from att. All of the iphone update come directly from apple. The carriers have no say.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Intub8 said:
Samsung is not innocent. Blame them also. Samsung can easily say no to the major carriers and push the update to us through kies. We will not get the update until 30-60 days after the next flagship device from att. All of the iphone update come directly from apple. The carriers have no say.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
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Ditto. Another post that was moved to the Q&A section mentioned that there are already three AT&T leaks in existence. AT&T is probably too busy ensuring that their bloatware is compatible with the ROMs, I mean, testing them.
I honestly don't understand how Samsung, the biggest mobile phone producer in the world, allows carriers to call the shots. As you've mentioned, Apple doesn't allow the carriers to have any input in OS updates. Samsung has just as much clout - what's stopping them from doing the same?
kgbkny said:
Ditto. Another post that was moved to the Q&A section mentioned that there are already three AT&T leaks in existence. AT&T is probably too busy ensuring that their bloatware is compatible with the ROMs, I mean, testing them.
I honestly don't understand how Samsung, the biggest mobile phone producer in the world, allows carriers to call the shots. As you've mentioned, Apple doesn't allow the carriers to have any input in OS updates. Samsung has just as much clout - what's stopping them from doing the same?
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Click to collapse
All Samsung cares about is profit margins. Where as Apple is also really strict with what goes into their phones. Flame away, but that's the truth.
kgbkny said:
Ditto. Another post that was moved to the Q&A section mentioned that there are already three AT&T leaks in existence. AT&T is probably too busy ensuring that their bloatware is compatible with the ROMs, I mean, testing them.
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Three leaks? I haven't seen them for download anywhere.
This is getting ridiculous.
just use a custom rom!
scorpion667 said:
All Samsung cares about is profit margins. Where as Apple is also really strict with what goes into their phones. Flame away, but that's the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I suppose Apple doesn't care about profit margins?
In all honesty, I can't say I disagree. Apple pretty much gave the carriers the finger by strictly controlling what's included in the updates and their release timeline. My biggest frustration with Android is the complete lack of uniformity when it comes to keeping it up to date. With that being said, I would sooner switch to Windows than iOS.
With regards to custom ROMs....not really my thing anymore. There is always something that doesn't function properly, which is why I'd rather have the official release. I used to be a flashaholic when I had the Vibrant and the MT4G, even the Sensation (to some extent). Nowadays, I tend to favor the official releases, even if it's a leak.
scorpion667 said:
All Samsung cares about is profit margins. Where as Apple is also really strict with what goes into their phones. Flame away, but that's the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wut? Samsung has slimmer margins than Apple does. By a LONG shot.
Also, Apple doesn't let carriers control updates, but the carriers do significantly control what is going in to each update (primarily in terms of what features are enabled for use when). They still don't have a gold paved road.
That being said, I do wish Samsung would force the carriers to a better update schedule. I wouldn't care if it was consistently a month after the international version. That would be better than what we have now.
andy2na said:
blame the carriers.
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I spoke to an ATT rep on chat and they said that they were the ones holding up the release. Doesn't seem like they care what with the disabling of google wallet as well.
kgbkny said:
With regards to custom ROMs....not really my thing anymore. There is always something that doesn't function properly, which is why I'd rather have the official release. I used to be a flashaholic when I had the Vibrant and the MT4G, even the Sensation (to some extent). Nowadays, I tend to favor the official releases, even if it's a leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kinda agree as I did the same with my S1 i9000 : flashed ROMs and kernels onto it on a weekly basis for nearly 1½ year.
Now that I have my S3, I just don't feel like that anymore as I :
- Appreciate the quality and stability of Samsung's releases
- Enjoy using the best camera app there is
- Know that the phone will eventually be updated to an even better release
However, the day I'll be told by Samsung that my S3 will no longer be elligible to upgrades, just watch me go back to my custom ROMs flashing habits! héhéhé
As for the bloatware ... root and any decent file explorer can help you get rid of it!
I thought most people knew by now that only Official Google devices get (somewhat) prompt updates. I didn't buy my SIII based on what it was going to get, I bought it based on what it already had. IMO as long as they update the phone in a relatively timely manner (within 6 months I'd say) then I am content - even then I wouldn't be too upset. I would just flash something myself.
I do the same. Take official firmware and basically make my own custom rom.
That way I have control about what is and isnt done.
I root it..
remove bloatware myself with root explorer (after copying everything I am about to remove to my external sd for safe keeping)
keep copies of the build.prop, framework-res systemui etc.
I modify the systemui for my own icons etc.
Install other modes etc.
As for leaks the only leak I know off on AT&T based is LH1 which I am running.
I am not running the latest lh9 as lh1 has everything that lh9 has but doesnt have nfc screwed up so wallet still works with it.
I am running the lh9 modem.
By the time the S3 will become ineligible for updates, I will have moved on to my next phone. Back in 2011, Google set up an Android update alliance, where many manufacturers and U.S.-based carriers promised that new Android phones would receive timely OS updates for 18 months after launch. The only timely thing about this promise was the death of this alliance. After Jellybean, I give the S3 one more update before Samsung declares it non-upgradeable. It's unfortunate, but that's just the nature of the beast.
I'm well aware that only official Google devices (Nexus) get timely updates. This is the only reason why I held on to my Galaxy Nexus after buying the S3. I was well aware that it'll be a loooooooooong time before the S3 sees an update, so I kept the Nexus to satisfy my cravings for latest Android versions.
http://phandroid.com/2012/10/24/sprints-samsung-galaxy-s3-jelly-bean-rollout-starts-october-25th/
Funny how I left Sprint and my S3 to come to AT&T and get an S3. Surely we won't be too much further behind if Sprint is releasing it? Maybe? Bueller?
jmacdonald19 said:
http://phandroid.com/2012/10/24/sprints-samsung-galaxy-s3-jelly-bean-rollout-starts-october-25th/
Funny how I left Sprint and my S3 to come to AT&T and get an S3. Surely we won't be too much further behind if Sprint is releasing it? Maybe? Bueller?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good find! When the initial Samsung statement regarding the U.S. S3 variants being updated to Jellybean "in the coming months" was issued, it specifically mentioned "all carriers except for Sprint". Although the arrival of the Sprint update may signal that ours are just around the corner, I'm not holding my breath.
I just want to point out that Apple doesn't play by the same ruleset as Android OEM's do when it comes to releasing updates. Part of the original contract with AT&T was to prevent AT&T from having any say in Apple's updates and it kind of just kept going with the other carriers since they wanted the phone to sell so dearly.
Android OEM's have no such stipulation, Nexus devices not counting of course.
Saw on another site that AT&T wont see an update till January.
Of course that is just word of mouth, so take it for what you will.
I recently got the a520f after a few years with the iPhone. I was happy enough but then released there is 2 roms, 1 in alpha and another which is abandoned then noticed the updates from Samsung are sparse at best.
I'm unlocked in UK and stuck on 6.0.1, they "used" to say unlocked got updates first, noticed the way I said "used to" because carriers seem to be releasing 7.0 before unlocked, and while on the point 7.0 at this stage when Oreo will soon be released, even bringing the phone out with 7.0 would have been slow when 7.1 was available.
I am thinking I have made the wrong decision with the a520, Samsung are slow with updates anyway yes but the a520 seems to be at the bottom of Samsungs list of priorities. Last years a510 even has 7 for a while now.
hi !
Yes ,all people here want updates with another android version but i think that the most important thing is to enjoy with this phone :
it's a device with MM6 have enought power for to play game , it have the best super amoled screen ,it have a fabulous battery life ! , a fingerprints and "near" 20 differents sensors ,he have a good modem and hardware for 4G , this MM + sansung adds have all useful functions and parameters ....and the middle economic mode is impressive for the battery life...
The phone is receiving updates slowly cause the phone has owners all around the world, it's probably to make sure that OTA servers are not overloaded. Imagine what would happen if they released it at the same time for the whole world, the servers couldn't deliver acceptable speeds. That's just my guess though.
Nah, Samsung kinda sucks. I mean they couldnt make a proper working fingerprint sensor on stock MM, had to install nougat for the bloody thing to work.
aoyanagi said:
The phone is receiving updates slowly cause the phone has owners all around the world, it's probably to make sure that OTA servers are not overloaded. Imagine what would happen if they released it at the same time for the whole world, the servers couldn't deliver acceptable speeds. That's just my guess though.
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Click to collapse
How does Apple cope then?
That's Samsung decision to release update or not, as user we can wait for it or complaints to Samsung
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
It has nothing to do with "the server not able to cope" or anything. There are a few reasons building up to the devices being in literally the bottom of the pile as you put it:
1) Samsung has heavily skinned Android with a lot of added features, which all take a while to port to a new verison.
2) Costs of development, Q/A testing and everything else that needs to be done before the update gets released public (not doing the update obviously means a lot of saved money)
3) Most people don't care about updates or are even annoyed by them and think they are something evil. That's excluding heavy updates to a new version which slow down the phone by a large margin with features you could have lived without (Apple are doing this), those updates really are evil. Due to the lack of updates though, this rarely happens on Android in all fairness.
4) It's a mid range price device
5) Samsung's policy of not wanting to update the phones too much anyway so the user buys a new one
The phone is probably going to be updated to 7.0 within the next month or two. I doubt extremely it will get updated to 8.0.
This is unacceptable for a phone that has come out for 2017, to not got an update of an OS to a version that is released in 2017 just a little over an year later. We should definetly not put up with it and complain to Samsung however, not on XDA.
We should make sure OEM's take note that we want our phones updated to new Android versions fast for at least a few years, just like iOS devices. And on top of complaining, we should vote with our wallets also. That gets the chain moving.
aoyanagi said:
The phone is receiving updates slowly cause the phone has owners all around the world, it's probably to make sure that OTA servers are not overloaded. Imagine what would happen if they released it at the same time for the whole world, the servers couldn't deliver acceptable speeds. That's just my guess though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is tackled in another way. Your phone randomly receive updates in batch.
Yes you can get an update if you manually go into settings and download updates.
But again it is automatically provided in random batches.
Samsung is late at updates because they have a large number of models.
Not like Iphone that only support 3 models of past I think.
Samsung also needs to provide stable updates which take a lot of testing.
Again it depends on your country and provider when the start rolling updates.
By the way A5 got certified for oreo.
https://www.wi-fi.org/product-finder-results?keywords=A520f
It has Oreo in Russia now
https://forum.xda-developers.com/samsung-a-series-2017/how-to/sm-a520f-oreo-russia-t3779287