Related
Hey guys, anyone knows if i have :
2 double AA wif 2700mah each that gives u 5400mah (using energizer energi to go) compared to lithium batt of 5000mah (using sanyo mobile booster double li on batt)
which one would be better at charging our high power consumption PDA eg. HTC touch HD?
It's not just about mAh
It's not just about the mah of the battery; you also have voltages to think about.
I have a good investment in 1.2v nimh batteries - so 2 of those would give me 4000mah if connected in parallel but only provide 1.2v of.... voltage. Then, consider your phone - it probably has a 3.7v lion battery. To get to the same total capacity and voltage, you would need to have 3 batteries connected in series (give you 3.6v or possibly a touch more if really full) to get close to 3.7v at 2000 mah.
I've built external packs for my Creative Nomad Zen (same type of battery, 3.7v 1000mah) using 4 aa batteries (4.8v, 2000mah.) The stock charger was 5v 1000mah, so it was close enough. A bit bulky, but it worked great in the car where I didn't want to buy a charger and already had the batteries. Of course, odd things can happen when the voltage of the "charger" goes below the expected input. As an extender for something USB Chargable, you could probably do the same thing with 4 batteries to simulate a charger and extend your runtime. I'd suggest "aaa" batteries to make the pack smaller.
Do not try this if you have no clue regarding electronics. You can hurt your phone, hurt yourself and light stuff on fire. And not in a cool way.
Sorry bro didnt quite understood ur conclusion here.. Wasnt electronics trained and educated haha. But anyway yah i do understand mah is not the main thing here..
But rather the voltage. So i would suppose a lithium works better at charging high power devices given approximately the same mah specs?
Alright; just so we're clear - your question is regarding whether a lion/cell battery will do better than another chemistry battery when powering a phone?
The real boom is power to weight. Look at a double a battery and compare that to your cell battery. Hold both of them - the lithium ones for a given capacity will be lighter and smaller.
Both could power a device like a cell phone for similar time, given the same capacity.
Hope that helps....
oh thx! that realli helps.. But however with regards to sanyo's website. 2x 2100mah enelop batteries could onli power a cell phone for 70mins. But its lithium 5000mah could power it for 2hrs! Doesnt that conclude that lithium gives more power given the same capacity?
Even same mah Li-ion is better than NiMH due to discharge characteristics. Li batteries lose very little voltage from Topped up to full allowable discharge. So has more usable power for a device that was built for nearly constant voltage like ours.
i was just wondering if we can modify the battery.. what i mean is to operate device with the Li-ion batteries that arent for excalibur.. like batteries designed for nokia having same VDC but higher mAh... is it possible? or will it b of no use.. has any one tried this type of stuff before?
yes
it possible
you can modified NOkia BL-5c with excalibur batery
some people do it in Viet Nam
i'm not good at English so i can talk about it clearly
if you use batrere with a more current(mAh) that will create excess heat in the device, while the problem of voltage (VDC) is up to you is still within the limits of tolerance of the Voltage original battery
Hakim Rahman said:
if you use batrere with a more current(mAh) that will create excess heat in the device, while the problem of voltage (VDC) is up to you is still within the limits of tolerance of the Voltage original battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but there are 1500mAh battery for excalibur.. does that means tht if we use such battery it will heat the device????
can u explain further????
Any Li.Ion battery will do it. It is also safe to charge it - as normally the chargers are adjusting their charge current by the voltage of the battery. This is linked to chemistry (Li.Ion) and this is identical for all such batteries. The Capacity in mAh does not matter for charging (it just takes longer) - there are also extended capacity batteries available and they are equally safe to use.
Possibly the temperature sensor in the batteries maybe different e.g. for Nokia so the device may refuse to charge it (thinking it is "too hot" - or "invalid") - you will need to try out or rely on reports who have succeeded already. You MUST(!) take care that polarity is identical (+ and -) for a replacement, otherwise you may ruin the device, battery or even your health.
Would it be possible to buy a battery replacement for the A500 and stick it into the A100? Or are there other factors that make this a no-go?
The battery connectors look the same but I would suggest verifying the pin outs. I would also be concerned about the physical size.
a100 http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/...23&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto
a500 http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/...15&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto
painter_ said:
The battery connectors look the same but I would suggest verifying the pin outs. I would also be concerned about the physical size.
a100 http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/...23&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto
a500 http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/...15&tag=thumbnail-view-selector;get-photo-roto
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seem to me a lil bit bigger...
Looks big to me too and the a100 one is shaped weird. I don't even then you can get that shape battery any where else. Was a good idea though. Can you guys tell who manufactures the battery? Text are too small for me to make out.
I tried for some time to find battery replacements, but only found for the A500, W500, and Transformer as of yet.
The interesting thing about the battery is each cell is about the size of an HTC Evo 4g/HTC touch pro2 (I've open my a100 before to fix wifi connection) battery in parallel. There should be a way to get a higher mah batteries of similar size and wire them in parallel to make a longer lasting battery. I think this will be my next project.
So in the service manual it says this
Rechargeable Lithium-ion or polymer battery (Sony 454261 Polymer cell / Sanyo
484462 prismatic cell)
So look up Sony 454261 and I end up here
http://www.ecvv.com/product/2465678.html
Battery spec:
Sony 454261 - 1530mAh (Widely used in PDA, GPS and mobile Phone Battery Pack) New Model Specifications (454261)
Product Lithium Polymer Battery
Configuration Flat Prismatic
Model Number 454261
Battery Capacity Min.1530 / Typ.1590mAh Average
Size 45.2mm X 42.3mm x 6.1mm
Weight 25.0 g Impedance < 40 m.ohm
Nominal voltage 3.7V (Max 3.83V)
What I'm wondering is if they produce a similar size battery with higher mah. Or perhaps another manufacturer with similar size battery with higher mah. Size being or close to 45.2mm X 42.3mm x 6.1mm. Since there isn't much room width wise based on this image.
http://www.androidtablets.net/forum...67-acer-iconia-tab-a100-teardown-img_0265.jpg
Maybe thicker battery might work.
Found this. It looks like the one we have in our device is Sonys largest already. Its the 3rd one on this list.
http://www.foxlink.com/_en/2_product/2pro_detail.php?ID=23
You could make a custom connector and modify the case to clip in and out at the battery. And have easy/quick connect battery access, which would make for quick replacement. Might try it.
From what this guy says is to only let your battery cycle a few times then charge whenever it needs it and this will increase battery life cycle.
I can't complain I get pretty good overall battery life, although I would like to see what a replacement modded 2200-2500 battery would be like in this beast!
http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tips-tricks/213618-lithium-polymer-batteries-101-a.html
Every phone I've owned after my Treo 300 has been powered by a Lithium Polymer battery, and I've seen the same misconceptions and incomplete or bad information about those batteries in the forums for every one of those phones including the Evo. Well I'm home sick and can't do much else besides cough, so I'm going to try to educate y'all a little.
And why do I think I'm qualified to do that? Well I just turned 60 and I've been actively involved with electronics, both as a hobby and professionally, since I was 10. I've also been a model (R/C) aviator for many years and rechargable batteries have played a huge role in both of those pursuits. I began using LiPo cells in my projects and planes long before they started appearing in consumer electronics. Not much was known about them back then and we were basically on our own to figure out what worked and what didn't and we also had to design and build our own chargers. Those were exciting times given LiPo cells' tendency to "vent with flame" when they aren't happy.
So without getting too technical, here are some things you should know about LiPo battery packs:
The single most important thing you need to know is LiPo batteries can explode. They actually "vent with flame" with a big woosh, but "explode" seems to be the most popular description. Perhaps the surest and quickest way to make that happen is charge them beyond 4.2V per cell. Modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but some "budget" battery packs and chargers don't have all the safeguards. The other common reasons LiPo packs explode is excessive heat and physical damage. I've personally seen two cars which had phones explode on the dashboard and it wasn't pretty. I also saw an executive's desk after a phone exploded in a drawer nearly 12 hours after he rolled over it with his car. The technical name for the phenomenon is "thermal runaway" and the actual chances of it happening to you are pretty slim if you stick to name brand batteries and chargers and use some common sense.
And you never want to forget or ignore this simple rule: If a battery pack ever starts to puff up like a little pillow or change size or shape in any other way, treat it like a firebomb with the timer ticking. Take it outside and put it in your barbecue or a steel pail or something.
While I'm on the "vent with flame" rant I'd like to add this: Almost all modern cell phones (including the Evo) use a single-cell (3.7V) battery pack. The charging circuit in the phone will prevent you from overcharging it, but all bets are off if you remove the pack from the phone and charge it in an external charger. One very common way model aviators accidently blow up LiPo packs is by charging them with a charger set to a higher cell count, and this could happen to a cell phone battery if you were to try to charge it with a charger made for a camera, for example. The other way model aviators blow up packs is by charging them at a higher current rating than they're designed for. I mention this because it may not be a good idea to charge a stock 1500mAh battery with an external charger designed for a 3000 mAh battery, but I can't say for sure without knowing the charging current of the charger. It would be both safe and acceptable to charge a 3000mAh battery with a charger designed for a 1500mAh battery, but it would take twice as long.
Next, you never want to discharge a LiPo cell below 3V per cell. 3V is completely discharged for a LiPo cell and if you go below that voltage you'll do unrecoverable damage to the cell chemistry. Once again, modern consumer electronics have plenty of built-in safeguards in place to prevent that from happening, but it's not hard to do by accident or by design once the battery is out of the device. Put the battery in an external charger and unplug it, for example ... No, don't.
There is no practical reason to unnecessarily discharge or cycle a LiPo pack. All you'll accomplish is reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles the pack will be capable of before it begins losing capacity. LiPo packs don't develop a "memory" like the old Ni-Cad cells did and they'll last significantly longer if subjected to partial charge-discharge cycles than they will with full charge-discharge cycles. In layman's terms, your battery will last longer if you charge it whenever you can rather than wait until you have to all the time. Also, the capacity of new LiPo pack will usually improve after it's been through a few charge-discharge cycles, but the best way to do that is through normal use.
LiPo cells have a shelf-life and they basically begin to degrade on the day they're assembled. But they degrade faster if they're stored at full charge, so if you won't use a battery pack for a significant length of time (~2 weeks or more), discharge it about half way before you store it. You don't need to get real technical about this because close counts. Just use the battery until the gauge shows about half green.
And finally this, for those of you who are compelled to play with volt meters:
A fully-charged healthy LiPo cell will have a resting voltage of 4.2V, but the nominal working voltage is only 3.7V. As I mentioned above, these cells are completely depleated when the resting voltage reaches 3.0V so the entire working voltage range for a LiPo cell is only 0.7V nominal. In low-current devices like a cell phone the actual working voltage range is more like 3.85V to 3V, but that additional 0.15V doesn't really amount to much. So what happens to that voltage range between 4.2 - 3.7V? In the simplest of terms, it's just a surface charge of sorts. Even at low current loads the voltage will quickly drop to the nominal working voltage where it will hold pretty close to steady until the cell is about 80% depleated.
The graph above is a typical 6C discharge voltage curve for an average LiPo cell. 6C means the cell was discharged at a rate (in mA) that was 6 times the rated capacity of the cell (in mAh). In other words, if the cell was a stock 1500mAh cell for the Evo, then the discharge rate would be 6 x 1500 or 9000mA (9A). Needless to say, a cell phone will only draw a tiny fraction of that current which would affect the curve in the following way: The starting voltage would be more like 4.1V and it would quickly drop to around 3.8V instead of 3.6V. Then the voltage would gradually drop until it hit about 3.4V and drop from there relatively quickly.
And that is just about everything you need to know to get along with Lithium Polymer battery packs and then some. To wrap this up, here's a short video of what can happen if you mistreat a LiPo battery. Judging by the visual evidence, my guess is it's a single 2100 to 2500mAh cell:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Interesting read, thanks
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Thanks for the info. Good to know so we don't let them get too hot also. About what temp are they good to before they aren't happy anymore?
Sent from my MoPho using XDA
[email protected] said:
I've been using LiPo batteries for the last 5 years in my Trex 450, 500 & 600 along with my electric planes too... they are something like half the weight with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite ..... I've never had issues wity them providing they're used properly..
Really surprised they haven't taken over the LiIon batts in phones ....
Below is my Trex 600 using a 6 Cell 3000mAh LiPo with a 25C and a 35 burst rating ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw99SjxLdyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
I also had some experience with batteries in many devices and i have only 1 thing to say to all of You - just use the device !
Everything that is important is already sorted out for You.
I personally think that batteries in HTC One X are very durable and treated like an egg by device itself, firstly HTC optimizing Sense 4.0, secondly Google`s Android is 4.0 not a beta 1.0, last thing is that the body of the unit acts like a radiator grill cooling down battery and CPU.
There is only 1 thing to look at, if u see that the phone is idling but its getting HOT, check for badly made application that uses the CPU and kill it.
Here are some more reading material for those who are interested in learning about Li-Poly batteries.:
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
How to Charge - When to Charge Table
Is Lithium-ion the Ideal Battery?
Charging Lithium-ion
According to those guides its always better to do partial discharges and charge before the battry goes completely dead. That way you can prolong the lifetime of your battery. As a habit I normally don’t let my batteries discharge below 30% if I can help it. My previous Galaxy S used to have about 40% charge at the end of the day. I’m yet to buy a HTC One X, but hope it won’t fully discharge by the end of the day. Since One X doesn’t have a removable battery prolonging the life time is critical.
shadehh said:
What's to be understood under: "with 1/3 more power than NiCads...and NiMetalhydrite". Does that mean, for example, while it does have the same capacity as a none liPo battery that it actually still does pack more? I know, sounds contradicting but I think you know what i mean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it means density of stored charge, so for a given battery physical dimension and weight, a LiIon/LiPoly battery will have around 1/3 extra mAh than NiMh and NiCd.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Some of these phones are getting pretty hot. I have read post of people getting up to the high 60c range here is some info that I just found that goes along with the temps that you are experiencing. If your cell is getting over 60c your battery will die out at a more rapid pace or more serious it could explode and catch on fire. HTC better be getting some fixes and updates out because this could be some big trouble if a reported fires would happen. So come on with those updates HTC.
CELL PHONE BATTERY PICTURE
backfromthestorm
All well and good, but ours are li-ion in the one x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Li-Ion & Li-Poly are the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...olymer_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So am I supposed to do any full cycle on a new phone or just start using and partial recharging ?
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
What is the maximum reachable temperature for the One X battery? Sometimes it gets very HOT, i don't want my head to explode
drvsbsm said:
backfromthestorm
Quoted from another post here on XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The electrolyte is stored in a composite polymer rather than an organic solvent. Otherwise they are pretty much the same; it doesn't change the charge/discharge characteristics or the energy density. You can even use the same charger. From a black box perspective, they are the same, it's just that with LiPo, your box has more options on shape and might be cheaper to manufacture.
Hi
drvsbsm said:
After reading all of that information I don't let mine go below half and the battery seems to be doing really good. The thing that caught my eye was on another site where they use the same type of battery in radio controlled airplanes is that you get about 500-600 full cycles with these types of batteries, but if you don't let it drain all the way it isn't considered a full cycle. So it would also seem the battery life would last longer and they also said not to use the phone while charging if possible, turn it off and charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
PhilipL said:
Hi
A top up charge also helps because the battery has less time to heat up before it's full than it would with a longer charge from flat to full. Heat is a big aging factor of these types of batteries. Never charge the phone on the carpet or other soft furnishing which insulates them and causes more heat, and is a fire hazard, if you can charge them keeping the phone cool on something solid and nice and conductive for heat, for example a metal surface.
Of course while charging from 50% to 100% avoids a full cycle so you get more cycles, a big chunk of that advantage is cancelled out because you are only getting half the use of the battery each time and so are charging it twice as often, so overall while it helps to keep topping it up, I don't think anyone needs to excessively worry about this. Just use the phone
Regard
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you get more cycles, charging 50% to 100% letting it drop to 50% then charge to 100% is one cycle.
50% - 100% = 1/2 cycle
but doing smaller charges means it takes longer before you start losing the capacity from wear and tear, but by the time i get any negative effect to charging my contract will be long up and ill be getting my self the newest shinny toy
i was i have htc Sensation and the bettery is better than HOX battery
i installed ARHD ROM & Faux Kernel UV
i don't see any improvments
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
fridgie said:
No they are not, lithium-ion is quite different to lithium-ion polymer
Read first line of this... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm learning this myself but it is good info for us since we can not take our battery and replace it.
This Google search shows the One X has Li-poly battery, many of pages good info the One X using Lithium Polymer Battery type, so that is the info I'm using.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie....,cf.osb&fp=3ca401bf196c59f0&biw=1920&bih=950
Specs here on XDA say its Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/HTC_One_X
Specification
Processor: 1500 MHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 AP33H
Operating System: Google Android 4.0.3 (ICS) with HTC Sense 4.0
Memory:
32GB internal
1024 MB RAM
Dimensions: 2.8 x 5.3 x 0.4 inches
Weight: 130g
Display:
Type: S-LCD 2 capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size: 720x1280 pixels, 4.7 inches
Gorilla glass screen
Multi-touch input method
Connectivity:
Bluetooth® 4.0 with EDR,A2DP,AVRCP
Wi-Fi®: IEEE 802.11 b/g/n
Near-Field Communication
Micro USB Port
TV-out (via MHL A/V link, 1080p)
Camera: 8 megapixel color with autofocus, LED flash, 1080p recording, ImageSense Chip
Battery: Standard battery, Lithium Polymer 1800 mAh
Network:
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS850 (B5), UMTS900 (B8), UMTS1900 (B2), UMTS2100 (B1)
Data: GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
READ DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE
Charging Lithium-ion Polymer
Charging Li‑ion polymer, also referred as Li-polymer, is very similar to a regular lithium-ion battery and no changes in algorithm are necessary. Most users won’t even know if their battery is Li‑ion or Li‑polymer. The word “polymer” has been used as promotional hype and does not reflect special attributes other than to know that the battery is built in a different way to a standard Li-ion.
Most polymer batteries are based on a hybrid architecture that is a cross between Li-ion and Li-polymer. There are many variations within the polymer family, and the true dry polymer battery for the consumer market is still years away. Also know as the “plastic battery,” this system was first announced in early 2000 but was never able to attain the conductivity needed for most applications at ambient temperatures. Read more about the Lithium-polymer battery and the Pouch Cell.
Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
rodnii said:
Can you guys check your batteries with an app like AIDA64? I thought the Note7 is supposed to use Li-Po, but AIDA64 says mine is Li-Ion.
I'm wanting to see if Samsung is using both to meet supply and demand, or if it's actually Li-Po but software reports it as Li-Ion.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
ZiprLips said:
What does it matter? They are almost identical, and if the ratings are identical the you would never know the difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. It's just my own curiosity. This can be closed if no one else is interested.
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Aeltar said:
It's high voltage (3.85v rather than the standard 3.7v or the less common but not unheard of 3.6v) li-ion.
That isn't terrible, but a li-po battery will usually offer greater runtime for the same mAh, since the voltage stays higher until it suddenly drops. Li-ion, however, allows battery percentage calculations to be more accurate, because there's more voltage differential over the course of a discharge cycle. Li-po also offers the advantage of improved durability; in other words, more charge cycles before it loses capacity. You can also charge most li-po cells or batteries faster than most li-ion cells or batteries safely.
Does anyone know what voltage the components run at? If it's being bucked from the nominal 3.85v, that won't result in much efficiency loss compared to li-po, but if it's being boosted, the lower voltage at most points in the discharge cycle will result in greater efficiency loss at lower battery charge. I can only assume that most components are quite low-voltage, but I have no idea really.
I suspect they used li-ion because li-po swells more when being charged or discharged heavily, which would possibly result in a cracked case or broken ribbon cables more often.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience in the field of overclocking desktop cpu's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu iirc , and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Oh, and your comments on voltages for lithium ion batteries leads me to think you may have them confused with lithium ferrite (Li-Fe) batteries.
ZiprLips said:
I don't want to offend you, but literally none of your information is true.
First of all, a batteries chemical composition has absolutely no bearing on it's mah rating. Mah is a measurement of amperage over time (Milli amp hour). 3500mah = 3500mah regardless of the cells chemical composition.
Second, both lithium ion and lithium polymer cells operat at a range of voltages. Acctually, they operate at almost the exact same voltages. This 3.7v number you are referring to is the "nominal" voltage for both types Li-po and li-on. 3.7v is about that your cell phone battery reads at around 50% charge. At 100% charge both Lipo and li-on are reading 4.2v. When your phone hits 0% charge, the voltage is approximately 3.3v or 3.2v, depending on what android has set for the cutoff. If you drain either cell type below 3.0v the cells may recharge in opposite polarity, which is why no Lipo or li-on charger will attempt to recharge a cell below that 3.0v threshold.
As far as charging is concerned, each cell has what is called a 'c' rating. It actually has 2 c ratings if you want to thorough. C is just a generic term for capacity. These c ratings reefer to the rate at which a cell can be safely charged and discharged. If a 3500 mah cell has a 1 c discharge rating, it can safely be discharged at 3500 mah, or 3.5ah. If a 3500mah cell has a 10c rating, it can be discharged at 35,000mah, or 35 ah.
The same math applies to the charge rate c rating. If a 3500mah cell can be charged at 1c, it can be charged at 3500mah, or 3.5ah. Obviously, this means that a 3500 mah cell, with a 1c charge rate can be fully recharged in 1 hour. The c rating of a Lipo or li-on cell is directly related to the quality of the materials used to construct it, which is to say that the c rating is directly related to the cost lol.
Now as to your question about the operating voltages, I can only speculate. What I can say is that in my limited experience e in the field of overclocking desktop club's, the voltages for the cpu and ram were always quite low. Around 4v for the cpu out, and less than 1.25v for the ram. And like I said, that was in a desktop. All the components in phones and tablets have 'LP' in their part numbers signifying low power, or low voltage. This is for 2 reasons. 1, cause if these components ran on the same voltage as desktop equipment, there would need to be cooling fans involved, and 2 cause they need to be powered by a battery.
All that to speculate that all cell phones use voltage regulators to step the voltage down a LOT.
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pardon me, but I'd like to correct a few details that you've overlooked.
1) I never said that one chemistry offers greater mAh, only that one offers a more stable voltage over its discharge cycle. This can be easily confirmed with a battery analyzer.
2) The li-ion pack they're using is clearly marked as 3.85v nominal. Most cells are 3.7v nominal, some are 3.6v, and some are 3.85v.
3) The voltage over discharge time is not linear; most cells operate at their nominal voltage for the largest portion of their discharge cycle, but 3.7v hardly equals 50% for most cells under most conditions.
4) Cells will not recharge in 'opposite polarity' if brought below 3.0v; the safety cutoff is actually 2.8v for most chemistries, and the safety issues with bringing them below that point is that the anode will begin to dissolve, which can cause an internal hard short if severe enough.
5) While li-po and li-ion typically offer the same nominal, maximal, and minimal voltages, the actual voltage over the discharge cycle is different between individual chemistries and constructions. Even identical chemistry (not just li-ion but IMR, also known as LiMn2O4) can differ in performance due to the material and architectural differences in the anode and cathode.
6) While the C rating is certainly relevant, I had assumed that Samsung would choose a cell that is of sufficiently high C rating to charge and discharge at and beyond typical amperage used in these phones.
7) You seem confused on the definition of Ah. Ah means amp-hours; one amp for one hour is one amp-hour. Similarly, joules are watt-seconds; one watt for one second is one joule, 60 watts for 1 second is 60 joules, and 1 watt for 60 seconds is 60 joules. However, energy is not transmitted at a rate of Ah, it is transmitted at a rate of A, or amps.
8) Desktop CPUs have little bearing on mobile CPUs. The technology used to power and construct them is entirely different. While it is extremely likely that mobile components are very low voltage, I don't have concrete knowledge regarding them, and I have no idea of the efficiency or regulation mechanism involved. I conjecture that they are very low-voltage, but while LP does indeed mean low power, power means wattage in the context of electrical engineering. You cannot extrapolate low-voltage from low-wattage due to Watt's law, which describes that you can create equivalent wattage using high voltage and low amperage or low voltage and high amperage (relatively speaking, of course, for both).
9) While mAh is mAh, the mAh given is at a specified load, typically 1C or 0.5C, and not at all indicative of performance at a higher load. There is almost no real-world use case in which you will actually be able to use the complete rated mAh of a cell, and the disparity is due to the voltage of the cell at differing loads at different points in the discharge cycle. It's trivially easy to get 1500mAh or less from a 3500mAh 18650, simply by drawing sufficient amperage. Li-Po typically offers a higher C rating for its size, compared to Li-ion which typically offers a higher capacity for its size. Because of this and the unknowns involved in power regulation inside the device, it's difficult to say whether the 3500mAh 3.85v li-ion cell used will be more or less efficient than a similarly sized and rated li-po cell, unless you happen to work with Samsung directly.
While I continue to disagree with most of your statements, I need to go to sleep, got to work tomorrow unfortunately.
I will only say that I concur with your definition of amp hours, I merely used a different cell capacity in my example. I should ha e some time at work tomorrow to continue the discussion.
There are different marketing names.
This kind of LiPo is often called a Li-HV in the hobby world.
HV for high voltage.
Instead of usual 3.7v nominal and 4.2v full, these chemistries run at 3.85v nominal and 4.35-4.4v full
Overall it should be a fairly quality cell, even if it IS made in China.... Personally I wish they sourced em from Panasonic / Sony / Sanyo etc or built em in Korea or Japan but it probably doesn't matter.
Wow, a very insightful read. Makes me want to go back and study for another degree haha..
Anyway, here is a picture of the battery from the Note7 iFixit teardown. It definitely says Li-Ion and lists nominal voltage @ 3.85V and charge voltage at 4.4V.
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/pHmgEwFNoQTnKyOY.huge
Honestly, I'm just curious, or even annoyed, because of discrepancies between what I see and what is being advertised/reported regarding tech specs. And being human, I want to get the best of what is offered, even if it's marginal. I know I shouldn't think too much about it and move on, but after seeing that photo, I can't help but wonder if there really are models out there with Li-Po or not.
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Mitha88 said:
I'm wondering if it could be another exynos / snapdragon thing where one has the other type?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
NCguy said:
Actually I'm not familiar with the exynos snapdragon thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
rodnii said:
I think he's talking about how we get Snapdragon in the US and Exynos in the international version. Or USB 3.1 with Snapdragon and USB 2.0 on the Exynos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure the "USB 2.0" was a typo I've seen many places list the "F" model with USB 3.1
i.e http://www.phonemore.com/phone/samsung-galaxy-note-7-sm-n930f/2708
NCguy said:
I used to fly rc aircraft where these two technologies are a huge part of the sport. At least in that usage, Lipo had a much higher energy density and where far more volatile. Lipo can be very dangerous, can ignite at 2000 degrees F, and great care must be exercised in charging and handling. Li -ION were lower energy density but far safer. I assume much of this applies to usage in phones.
If Lipo was actually used in the phone I expect it was to get higher capacity in a smaller package. Makes me a bit nervous if this is actually the technology used.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For RC usage (extremely high discharge) li-po is strictly superior, because it offers higher drain in a smaller package.
Our phones hardly use any power at all. Can you imagine any sort of RC device with a 1S 3.5Ah cell lasting all day?
Li-ion offers higher energy density for lower discharge applications, up to about 5-8C or so. Above that, li-po shines in terms of size compared to capacity and discharge rate.
As said previously I don't think the use of li-ion is really a letdown. It has drawbacks and benefits. I'd personally prefer li-po, but li-ion makes sense for this application as well.
I suspect the largest benefit the consumer would see from li-po in these uses, if similarly specced, would be greater overall durability (more charge cycles). Let's just hope they went with a high quality li-ion so it'll still be adequate a couple years down the road.
The fact that li-po swells slightly during normal usage is important, too. The teardowns I've seen show very packed internals; a slight amount of swelling, say, when fast charging a year down the road, could equal disaster for other components or the physical casing, or even perhaps the waterproofing.
Trueeeeee
bro all your researches is right and i have been working trying to find out the truth and actually you were scammed for years in every smartphone and iphone li ion batteries is a miss it cannot handle alot of voltage and almost gets 300 or 500 battery cycles and dies when it became 50 or 30 % i used two old smartphones in my house that is xiaomi note 4 li po and samsung s3 li ion those were my grandfather's and i asked him to help me in this research he used to work as a chemist in science university btw .. we left the both phones to charge with 5w charger for 3 nights and the li po phone didnot get hot and the other li ion phone was pregnant lol the back of it actually the battery were blown up i took it with a glove and got rid of it .. so that actually made me satisfied li po battery is safer to use and keeps its temp while li ion is much cheaper (i am not sure of the price) and we should maintain its temp between 25 - 55 c cause it gets damage by temp and have really bad life time i am not a scientist or hardware or software designer or any kind of these things i just noticed that .. and btw i tried this method with alot of smartphones that has li ion and li po batteries but i changed the chargers and tried higher voltage but not higher that what it does support like my note 8 only 15w charger and that surprised me li ion phones didnot survive they catch heat pretty fast they didnot blow up or anything but the battery life of them were decreased like **** but li po didnot get affected by any mean so i just have to change them that happened to my iphone 7 and samsung note 8 as well so dont try this test you well have to replace them in the store but fck money when i got to understand that companies like samsung and others were fooling us i know they have the best software and antennas and alot more good futures but what will i do with a phone that cannot charge quick like we see in others brands 40w chargers and 30w and having a bad battery life as well