Related
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Click to collapse
I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
"iron fist" lol.
yeah, i'm sure this will be locked too.
badogg said:
This is in reference to the NilsP/Joelz petition threads that were closed by willverduzco, and the resulting lashing that he posted here. While there were a VERY small minority of posts that might have crossed a line of respect, an overwhelming number of the posts in there were simply people showing support for the developers that deserve that recognition.
I find it disturbing that the moderation team can't seem to take some criticism here. This is a community, and if the mod/admin team can't at least listen to the members of that community without mocking them or belittling them as was done in this thread, then this place is truly lost. Which is sad because it was (and in a lot of regards still is) a great place for android users/devs to get together.
I'm sure this thread will too be locked, and I'll take my whipping of the cat-o-nine-tails for daring to challenge the overlords, but this is really a sad state of affairs.
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i understand you are upset that nilsp did not get his badge for "reconized developer" and im not trying to say he does not deserve it (because is one of the great devs still on here).
but the way you decided to handle it was not good. posting it in the development thread to get it seen more is not the way to go. if you feel like he deserves the badge, then voice your opinion by pming Developer Committee please dont try to start a war on here. it will only end badly. we are already have enough wrong posting going on by people mistaking this as an INC 2 thread. please dont add to it.
if you dont like the rules then go to a different site. there are some of us on here that still want to keep order and help others and not make this a flame site.
*i am ready to be flamed now*
Dudes he gave us a proper way to appeal, which I personally didn't know about. Its not as epic as "challenging overlords", they just want us to follow the rules.
This "iron fist" thing has been talked about for weeks. There was a huge article on it in the portal about the sense of entitlement, people thinking for some reason that donations = labor contracts, the devs being frustrated by users *****ing, among other things. The easiest way for them to circumvent it is to have a zero tolerance policy, so they're not exactly gonna be nice about a whole lot right now. My advice to yall is to just let it go and be cool.
They run this place, we don't, period. Lets just enjoy what it does for our gadgets guys... They obviously are going through a rough time, the least we can do is make it easy on them.
Everyone needs to remember this is only a website... mods I respect you but seriously IT'S A WEBSITE... I'm 20 and have more sense than most people on here this is all childlike and uncalled for... this is a community not a hierarchy...
sent from my phone using ALL CAPS RAGE
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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I wasn't all bent until I read their responses. That is where I had a problem. The way that they dealt with this was disconcerting. All we wanted to do was to show some support for a couple of peeps, and if we did it wrong then educate us without being jerks about it.
Your thread is gone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
lol stang, i think they deleted your thread.
it's the "i'm taking my ball and going home!" mentality all over again here at XDA.
wildstang83 said:
Well the MODERATORS need to quit treating us like a bunch of whiney little babies and let us support our last few devs. I reopened my thread guys. Go blow it up!
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3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
How dare you abuse the authority they gave you. Lol
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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*READS RULES*
Ok, so that makes sense for the one that was in the development forum, but what about the petition thread? I don't see anywhere in those rules that say that we aren't allowed to show support for another member/dev or question the decisions of the mods.
Sure there was probably a couple of members that might have pushed it a little far, but I don't think any of it was really over the line (but admittedly I didn't read every single post and I'm not going to) - just voicing displeasure about it, and showing support.
synisterwolf said:
3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
JUST INCASE YOU DIDNT READ THE RULES.
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But making jokes and clowning is acceptable, as long as you're a mod, right? Go read the thread. They were laughing and clowning at the first 2 guys that posted about this. Then I called them out on it and all of a sudden they're serious about it. Then i get this comment from some idiot...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276306&page=239
WHERE'S THE IRON FIST AT? I'll take my ban as long as this dude does too...
Zeus... God of Awesome!
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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im all for keeping the devs here, but posting a flame thread is not the way. (im also not stopping you from voicing you opinion if you do it the correct way.) it just adds fuel to the fire. that's something we don't need.
"If they disagree with a moderator's actions, users CAN complain (not in the forums, only via Private Message). We are putting systems in place to ensure that mods ask for advice from the team in complex situations. Senior mods and administrators will do everything we can to ensure that moderators wield their power for good, not evil. Fair but firm. Firm but fair. It's a balance we strive for daily, and this is a responsibility we all take seriously."
if you feel that he was wronged the do the right thing by pming the mods or the committee. then threatening the mods after you thread was closed is still not the way to get your voice out.
(thank you by the way for serving our country.)
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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Bravo man. There was a lot of intolerance all around this issue, but I think the moderating really went down the toilet on it.
cvbcbcmv said:
As a moderator of another forum. I have some experience with this stuff. It doesn't have nearly 4,000,000 members, but it has almost 30,000, it's a big chunk. About 6 moderators to handle it, and really only 2 keep up with it (me being one of them), the others log on about once a month. First of all, I don't like closing threads, it's just ruining freedom of speech, which is kind of the whole point of a forum, if I have to I'll edit every single post, but I like to let people speak their mind. I also never mention anything somebody did, even if a name isn't mentioned, anything someone in particular did. In the mods post he said about the member who is threatening to leave, well, I'll admit it, that was me, and anyone could have found that out. BTW, I'm not the first one to do that. I would never do that to one of my members. I hope this doesn't get edited or removed. I'm not whining, I'm just saying my opinion. Nothing wrong, nothing bad. Just saying it. Also, I never come back at my members in a mean or insulting way unless they come at me on a personal level. Not a moderating job level, but an actual personal level. I think it's wrong to go to your members and tell them they are just whiny little crybabies who need to grow up.
Sincerely,
cvbcbcmv
P.S I'm not complaining, I wouldn't fill out a formal complaint, that's not my point of this post. I just want to state my opinion.
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This is how I moderate too, otherwise things like what's happened here repeat.....and that's bad
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I can see both sides of the argument. Nils is a great dev and should be recognized as a dev. The mods have a site to run andm unfortunatly, there are quite a few immature people that visit these forums and flame away, are disrespectful, and flat out rude. I would like to think that the mods realize that not giving him his dev title after all he has done for the community, was a mistake. I dont know if the will acknowledge that, but it is a mistake. On the other hand, and I have even been guilty at times, there is way too much flaming, rudeness, people demanding of devs, and moronic behavior all over this site, it has become really pathetic. If the mods actual felt that they needed to bring down the hammer, they should have started a long time ago and not let it get as bad as it is. I appreciate this site, but I am also thankful that there are other places I can get quality roms for my phone. Xda just isnt what it used to be when I joined several years ago.
cvbcbcmv said:
yeah, and anything like this has never happened on the forum I moderate, nothing get's passed a disagreement on a statement, and it doesn't come close to a flame war. It's friendly. That's how 2 moderators handle it. The people don't go flaming
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Yeah, and for a mod to put this text when moving a thread is not going to help:
"Moved: I'm incapable of posting or filing an appeal properly, so my thread was moved."
Members are going to cross the line, and honestly act childish at times - sure. But the moderation team shouldn't address that with even more childish behavior.
wildstang83 said:
Hey thanks for the rules quote. I know what they are and always have followed them though and so now we get treated like this. Last I checked I live in America and have faught in three wars for America and now yall wanna tell me I can't show my full support for our last few Devs. And to think I wanted to try to talk them into staying on this site. Lol well thats out of the question now aint it?
Yall can catch me on TheMikMik or Team Reverse
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First off as a fellow veteran I thank you for your service. However from what I've read about this site it was started in Europe so our American sense of 2nd amendment rites is kind of a mute point. This was and is a site created by devs for devs, us users are just here for the ride without much say in the matter as it isn't a democracy.
This fued some have going with Hacre I think is pointeless. To tell you the truth I think he is some type of enforcer on here. From what I can tell from googling him he's been asked before by mods to respond to posts in the exact same manner he is now. Hasn't anyone noticed not one mod in that main section is from America nor has said anything about Hacre's posts?
I think all the drama here is getting out of hand and its teime to just let it go. Yes I think they should have left the petition threads alone, but the op of the Nils thread asked for it to be locked. Yours I think was a mistake but you pissed someone off by reopening it on your own, maybe should have asked first? In my opinion this has done more harm than good to both Joel and Nils but I guess it wouldn't be xda if it didn't get all blown out of portion in a hurry and quickly go to ****.
Seems to me that a lot of people have thin skin around here now adays. SO what's the big deal someone new comes along and asks opinions? We used to do it all the time and the other developers did not get so easily offended. It's just an opinion of someone using that particular ROM and in no way it says you suck! Lighten up for crying out loud. There is a lot of BS in every thread I ever been on and most of them don't get into thousands of posts because everyone is talking about the ROM or helping someone out. Stop censoring people!
For one thing, its clutter, for another, it can be easily mistaken for a "bad rom/good rom scenario. It eventually winds down to a spiraling tornado of arguments and next thing you know, devs leave. Either way.. there is NO such thing as a best rom. You can't label something factual on personal opinion. Instead of asking for a good rom, try them out and see for yourself what the hype is about. And for those spamming to get the 10 posts, actually make them helpful sounds like a lot, but its not that hard.
Seriously. Get over it.
So what? They usually get gone by the way side. I have never seen anything like this on XDA as what's going on lately. And this is not about what's the Best ROM. are you saying that even questioning the new rules gets threads closed? Is this what XDA has come to? Is that why some of the best people have left? And no, I am not going to mention names.
BTW, I am just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Everybody is a newby at one tome or another and some go on to contribute to this site. Making them feel like crap when they first get here only damages us all.
ejc1214 said:
Seems to me that a lot of people have thin skin around here now adays. SO what's the big deal someone new comes along and asks opinions? We used to do it all the time and the other developers did not get so easily offended. It's just an opinion of someone using that particular ROM and in no way it says you suck! Lighten up for crying out loud. There is a lot of BS in every thread I ever been on and most of them don't get into thousands of posts because everyone is talking about the ROM or helping someone out. Stop censoring people!
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You may think of it as censorship and all that is entailed with that line of thinking but just remember 1 little thing from back when you registered at this site:
xda-developers Registration said:
...The owners of xda-developers reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason ...and agree to abide by the xda-developers rules
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I am right there with ya as far as what your trying to say, but always remember that we agree to abide by the rules of these forums when we sign up.
Have a nice day!
Sure, the owners. Are the owners or the moderators that develop ROMs making the decisions? Just saying that for years nothing was going on and now this is happening. Some people just want opinions to try things so what? In the scheme of things is it really killing this site? Nope!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30238970
This is a good example thanks to our mod buddy..
I have been around, since 2007, and I can tell you that these sort of rom comparison, what's best, etc threads have always been considered useless and generally closed.
Its a matter of opinion, some people love themed roms, some may not, some may like AOSP, sense, whatever, its to much of a personal choice for this sort of thread to be anything other than a yelling contest, and I have seen enough turn into 1) devs advertising their roms or 2) a flame war between users saying that their favorite dev is the "best".
Also, XDA is about learning, we are not here to spoonfeed you, read, search, learn, we did it, so why shouldn't you? (you in this case referring to the sort of people who open these threads and get shot down for it).
I also won't tolerate flaming or trolling, so if you see what you consider to be a silly thread, report it, move on, don't respond, you are just making it worse.
If anyone wishes to discuss the finer points of XDA's rules, feel free to PM me.
And on that note, thread closed.
veyka said:
I have been around, since 2007, and I can tell you that these sort of rom comparison, what's best, etc threads have always been considered useless and generally closed.
Its a matter of opinion, some people love themed roms, some may not, some may like AOSP, sense, whatever, its to much of a personal choice for this sort of thread to be anything other than a yelling contest, and I have seen enough turn into 1) devs advertising their roms or 2) a flame war between users saying that their favorite dev is the "best".
Also, XDA is about learning, we are not here to spoonfeed you, read, search, learn, we did it, so why shouldn't you? (you in this case referring to the sort of people who open these threads and get shot down for it).
I also won't tolerate flaming or trolling, so if you see what you consider to be a silly thread, report it, move on, don't respond, you are just making it worse.
If anyone wishes to discuss the finer points of XDA's rules, feel free to PM me.
And on that note, thread closed.
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Or pm me
See what I did there
Thread reclosed lol
XDA Moderator
In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily. With my current phone (and in that thread) that's not an issue - people frequently make directions based on the rules. Why is that? How can a rule be invented or ignored like that? That's two completely different reactions to the same situation.
Another issue that I've noticed is the level of tolerance in different forums for attacks on other people. In some forums, people would be shooting each other with attacking comments and dripping sarcasm all day, in the next, one slap and it's an infraction.
Some moderators I've found very easy to talk to and their approach is simple and clear. Others, can't seem to communicate without fury. You cannont reason with an angry person and I'm surprised that that can come from a moderator. Like many others I'm sure, I use many forums and this is the only one where I've seen moderators be allowed act this way.
I find that confusing and I'm also convinced that 'convenience' rules are created sometimes, and other times rules are flouted. Like a lot of people, I just want to come to talk about my phone, mod it etc. but the above makes it an unhappy trip on here sometimes. If it becomes a place where these issues are occuring, it feels to me like an 'anything goes' territory.
One other thing, is that I'm convinced that a thanks meter (which we know is also used as an 'I like you or your comment' meter is currency. Do we each have to notch up 1,000 posts and 300 thanks to become equal?
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
SharpnShiny said:
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
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Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:
SharpnShiny said:
In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily.
<SNIP>
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
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There's a big difference between trying to act like a moderator and aiding the moderators in what they do by referring people to the relevant links etc.
If someone is pushing their weight around, being all high and mighty and trying to enforce the rules as if they're more important - that is trying to act like a moderator.
However, directing people to the right place or making someone aware of the rules, without acting like the Big I Am - this is aiding the moderators and helping xda out.
Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that mods are only human and different mods will find some things acceptable whereas some others won't.
So if there are posts that you think should be actioned, simply report it and it will get the relevant mods attention. If you don't agree with a mods decision then you can politely PM them and ask why they made the decision they did and if you're still not happy with it, get in touch with a senior mod about it.
Where did the idea about posts and thanks come from? I don't agree with that at all, to be honest with you.
XperienceD said:
Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:
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If you think that we're not allowed to discuss the way the site is, then I can assure you that's not the case at all.
The fact is, there's a time and a place for everything.
If you're not happy with how the site is run, or how a moderator/admin acts around the site then creating a thread to bring these issues to the forefront isn't the way to do it.
If you contact the relevant mods etc via PM and want to discuss something relevant I'm sure they'll be more than happy to speak to you about it and sort out any problems you may have.
Nothing is perfect. The moderators can't be. But the comittee chooses them as they do appear close to 'perfect'. If at all you think any unfair decision has been taken upon you or any other member, you can always contact the moderator liasion admins or any one of the admins.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I've posted a couple of threads on GENERAL news topics which were curiously moved to the section belonging to my current phone. I can't believe it. It's so biased it's unbelieveable. I calmly messaged the mod who moved it and got no response. I really have no respect for a system that has no respect for it's users. That will be the last news piece that I post, I'll add and contribute to mods and that's it.
Not all of us are 16 year olds still learning, some of us are adults that have education and experience and can tell the difference between the sections. The bias and lack of communication is poor reflection of the site.
conantroutman said:
If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.
SharpnShiny said:
Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.
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I can only apologise for that, I'd hope that any enquiry made would be met with a response. I must say though that it may well be a simple mistake as we can often get quite a lot of messages to respond to and it's easy to one miss one, I'm certainly guilty of that myself (more than once)
As I said though, if you have specific concerns please feel free to get in touch with either myself or any mod committee member and we'll try to make sure the issue is resolved.