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This a copy of a post from a chip designer, Vikas Mishra, of some 14 years, who has posted this on the Dorimanx xda thread but his statements apply to all kernels.
I think, with his credentials, it is well worth reading this as it explains why u/v'ing and o/c'ing are not necessarily good things and also why one person may, or may not, find a particular kernel/settings are good/bad for their phone/chip...
"Hello people.
Let me introduce myself - my name is Vikas Mishra and I am a chip designer by profession. .
I have worked on critical parts of design of TI OMAP4, OMAP5, Nvidia Tegra 3 etc and have been doing this for the last 14 years.
Of late - I have seen a lot of folks posting BUGS about undervolting of the GPU/CPU.
I think I can explain what are the possible issues with undervolting/overclocking in a laymans language.
It is a little long winded but I think the length is needed for providing the appropriate context.
* What is inside your Cellphone
Your cellphone is an amazing device. It is a full fledged computer
that fits into your pocket. They have all the standard components
that a computer has - except that they are all usually soldered on
the motherboard directly and are not meant to be user-servicable.
The chief components inside your cellphone are
1. Application Processor (AP)- this is the heart of a modern
cellphone. These are manufactured by many companies - the main
ones are Qualcomm, Nvidia, Samsung and Apple. The other not so
well known ones are made by Texas Instruments, ST Ericsson,
Marvell and Broadcom.
A modern AP has logic to control the camera and process the image
that it generates, to do video encoding (video recording) and
video decoding (movie watching), Audio processor etc. in addition
to the well known CPU and GPU.
2. Power Management Controller - This is the chip that is
responsible for generating and regulating the voltages that are
used by all the components on the board.
3. DRAM - not very different from the DRAM found on a PC (except
that it is lower voltage)
4. Flash - for storage
5. Touchscreen controller
6. Logic for microphone, speaker
7. Battery
One of the most complex piece of circuitry on the phone is the AP
and the power management controller.
* Circuit Basics
A modern AP has millions of circuit units called (Flip
Flops). These flip flops have two parameters associated with them
called Setup time and Hold time. More details on what a flip flop
can be found on the wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_(electronics) . This is a
nice bit of bedside reading if you are interested.
A setup time roughly indicates what frequency you can run a design
or an AP at before it becomes unstable.
A hold time roughly indicates the maximum voltage till which a
design is stable.
A fully technical analysis of what is involved in these timing
parameters requires a degree in electrical engineering but in broad
terms the problem is described below.
Chip designers diligently ensure that all of the millions of the
flip flops in a chip meet the setup and hold time across a broad
range of voltages and silicon parameters. They do a pessimistic
analysis to ensure that a chip will run reliably across a wide
range of voltage/frequency combinations.
However, contrary to the popular belief, chips vary widely in their
silicon parameters. Even chips on a the same wafer and different
flip-flops within the same chip can have widely different silicon
parameters. This is why what works on one particular chip will not
work on the other chip.
Your silicon manufacturer provides a range of voltages and
frequencies across which the device can work reliably. The phone
manufacturer will further narrow down the range depending on the
other components they choose within the phone board.
* How does voltage affect the design
Reducing voltage makes the design slower and increasing voltage
makes the design faster.
So can I keep on increasing the voltage for ever and make the
circuit faster and faster. The answer is no - a point will come when
the circuit will become unreliable. This becomes unreliable because
the "hold time" of one or more of the flops will start
violating.
As you reduce the voltage of the design, the circuit will start
becoming slower. However typically it will continue to work till at
apoint it starts failing - this failure occurs due to violation of
"setup time" of one or more flops in the design.
So what happens when the setup time or the hold time of a design
fails - the answer is that it is unpredictable. Meaning suddenly if
you ask the processor what is the value of 2+2, the answer it will
provide could be unreliable - in some cases it could be 3, in some
cases it could be 4 in some cases it could be -2349783297 (a random number).
I am of course oversimplifying but I hope you get the picture.
* How does undervolting affect your phone processor
The reason undervolting is so appealing to people because they
thing that undervolting will save power and improve battery
life. While this is true in theory, in practice there is a caveat.
It will reduce the power of the chip, but the power consumed by the
phone as a whole will not improve. In some cases in fact it can
deteriorate. Let me explain.
The most power hungry part in the phone is not the AP - it is the
LCD screen. All of these screens consume a ton of power. So even
though your AP is now consuming lesser power, the overall impact to
the phone as a whole is not that much.
If you accompany undervolting with a frequency reduction (which you
should), the total time taken for doing a web page rendering (for
example) would increase. During this time the screen is on and it
has more than compensated for the power that you saved in the
AP.
You could of course come up with examples where this wouldn't
happen - but on a whole, IMHO, you should leave the voltage of the
AP/GPU/CPU to the guys who know the system best - the guys who
designed the chip and people who manufactured it.
* How does overvolting/overclocking affect your phone processor
If you want that last drop of performance from your phone and you
over clock it, at a point some of the design flops will start
violating the hold time and the design will stop working reliably.
Again, in some anecdotal cases this would work - but this is not a
reliable means/mode of working. Just because your friend's or your
first cousin's girlfriend's phone works - doesn't mean yours will
work as well.
* What are the user observable impacts of undervolting/overclocking?
It is hard to say - simply because there are so many of flops in
the design.
In some cases - you wouldn't see anything wrong with the phone
until one day you do. In some cases it will result in a SOD
immediately. In some cases it will result in your phone not waking
up reliably.
IMHO the risks of issues with undervolting/overclocking far
outweighthe potential gains you may get out of it. Usually there
is no lasting damage to the phone/AP if you overlock/undervolt but
it is possible to do it. For example, You run the phone at such a
high frequency that the chip temperature becomes more than what it
was designed for and the Silicon just fails.
So "Just say No" . Don't overclock or undervolt your phone -
leave it to the guys who really understand what they are doing.
>>≥>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm curious on what you guys think about all of this.
As for me I currently have a need for undervolting with heat issues. So I'll just take this with a grain of salt.
AT&T SGS3 Marble White
Team AoCP 4.6 The Collective ROM
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Dude knows what he's talking about. However...
Most of what he wrote pertains mostly to the extreme ends of the OC/UV spectrum. I didn't see much that suggested that light OC/UV has any potential risk, and it shouldn't: phone processors are generally underclocked to start with for battery, stability, or reliability reasons; processors voltages are selected with a certain tolerance for material defects that require higher voltage. For the most part, practical limits and common sense keep us from undervolting a processor until it won't boot, or overclocking until the battery explodes.
The post is definitely worth reading and should be enlightening for many readers. It should be taken with a grain of salt though: IIRC our processors are supposed to run stably at 1.7GHz @ 1050mV (I have no idea where my citation for this went, so consider it to be completely made up ), but we don't run them like that.
He glossed over an interesting point: underclocking and/or running a conservative governor might draw more power by keeping the screen on while execution is happening. It's an interesting consideration that would have countered his other points if fully explored. I see a lot of people posting that their 2.1GHz overclock still manages to get great battery life, and I can't help but wonder whether having the extra grunt when needed is working to their advantage. I'm totally off-topic though, so I'll shut up.
His priorities are all off. He is looking at it as a hardware engineer and not a user. All we are worried about is extra performance, enough stability that we can't tell the odd hiccup from all the software bugs we hit, and long life from the hardware. If my CPU makes a bug in a game, its not the end of the world, if it starts to irritate me I can reduce the clocks a bit. He makes it out as though it is an inevitability, that is not true. It is also not a degrading situation. It does not hurt the hardware to make an error and once you are past the maximum stable speed for your voltage they produce them at random with the frequency depending on how far past the limit you are. Also, the ideal overclock produces ZERO errors and only reduces chip life span in sofar as it is able to do more work over a shorter period of time. Most chips have quite a bit of headroom even at the stock voltage before they start producing any errors at all. My phone has been running for months at 1.9ghz, if there have been any errors they were indiscernible from software errors. My desktop has been running at a 60% overclock for 3 year, when tested it can run for days at full load without any errors.
As for overheating the chip, a little common sense goes a long way there and its going to be pretty hard to do without a poor hardware design or increased voltages. Personally I limit my cell phone overclocking to the highest speeds I can achieve without increasing the stock voltage because I have no way to monitor the temperature and do not know if there are thermal protections built in.
Hello,
I am not sure that undervolting can increase battery life. I even think it's the opposite effect
Demonstration :
Increasing battery battery life means using less power.
Power (P) is : P=U(voltage) x I (Intensity)
Most energy used by processors is converted in heating. It is like a resistance.
Voltage for a resistance is U = R x I. (ohm)
So Power used by the processor is P = U * I = R * I * I = R x I^2
So to reduce energy consumption, we have to reduce P. We cannot change R, so we should decrease Intensity.
Power used by processor cannot be change. So if we undervolt, intensity is increasing so the processors heats more and it is the opposite effect.
So why undervolt?
for me undervolting isnt giving any improvements in battery life. Furthermore, cpu and gpu isnt "eating" so much power as turned on screen ;D just my 50cent
And this thread is in the development forum because............?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using xda premium
ph03n!x said:
And this thread is in the development forum because............?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using xda premium
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Because I found no better place where to open it?
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Just a guesstimate here, but switching a transistor is equivalent to charging/discharging a capacitor. There is a known switching voltage for a given transistor and the idea is that within a clock cycle you can switch the transistor between states. If you lower the applied voltage (v1 to v2) it takes longer for the transistor to reach its switching voltage (vs) which is why you sometimes need to overvolt to overclock. This uses less power as E=0.5CV^2 i.e. charging the transistor to a lower voltage requires less energy.
I'm not sure how correct this is but hopefully someone can let us know.
Generally undervolting mobile phones doesn't have much effect as the antennas, and screen have a much larger effect than shaving one or two percent from the poqer consumption of an already efficient chip.
Sent from my GT-N7100
tomh235 said:
Just a guesstimate here, but switching a transistor is equivalent to charging/discharging a capacitor. There is a known switching voltage for a given transistor and the idea is that within a clock cycle you can switch the transistor between states. If you lower the applied voltage (v1 to v2) it takes longer for the transistor to reach its switching voltage (vs) which is why you sometimes need to overvolt to overclock. This uses less power as E=0.5CV^2 i.e. charging the transistor to a lower voltage requires less energy.
Sent from my GT-N7100
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thank you for your answer, but a capacitor doesn't consume energy, it is always its internal resistance. So my argument is still valid..
Undervolting and lower performance goes hand in hand. If you undervolt the cpu, than it takes more time to do it's job, so you don't save juice, and if you need to wait while the screen is on, than you even loose.
liljom said:
Undervolting and lower performance goes hand in hand. If you undervolt the cpu, than it takes more time to do it's job, so you don't save juice, and if you need to wait while the screen is on, than you even loose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Under volting does not decrease performance. Please read up in what it is. I can't even be bothered to correct you...
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
And what about the reduced voltage reducing the power, resulting is less energy lost to heat? Your cpu is processing at a given clock speed, that determines the speed of the system - less heat means the cpu can run faster for longer without overheating.
Actually, I don't see how that doesn't equate to lower consumption... your equation assumes a substitution for v but doesn't consider the scaling of r with t.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
I agree with Edga, the time and effort you will spend finding the correct voltage values will not worth it. Even if you find some then the increase will be around 5-6%, (that's my experience from GS2, wasted some weeks to find stable values!!) for which I am not wasting my time. Else depends on you.
And the question belongs to Q&A section. This section is for Developers and related.
I'm understanding the logic but what about when the processor has no work to do. Example when Screen is off
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
Basicly for direct current electronical devices (such as chips) P=V x I. There are 2 variables and we can only control one; Voltage.
Luckily the Voltage = R x I.
Thus I = V/R
and we can say P = V x (V/R)= V x V X R So simply the power equation is dependent to R and V.
This is how things are; we send a voltage to chip which has a constant R and it defines the current (I) with its pysical constructions (we can not change it, it is its nature) accourding to the equaiton of V=R x I. According to the power equation, since it has 2 Vs the increase in the power consumption is related to V^2, not V. So if you increase the voltage %10 this will result 110x110/10000= 1.21= %21 more power to be demanded from the battery.
Since they are nanometer sized dices they have a minimum current point to work. Current can be told as the amount of electrons to go + pole from - pole. Enough amount of electrons trigger the message in the transistor to work, rest produces heat and slowly kills the chip. However they are so small and a few molecules make difference and the manufacturer has no time to test each unit to determine the correct currents and adjust the voltage according to it. Besides it would also require unique software for each unit too. So they estimate the worst case scenerio and try to guess the chip with most faulty production and adjust the voltages including it.
This worst chip is mostly imaginary, a possibility but still they can not affort to take any risk for a few lower degrees heat and maybe 1/2 hour more battery time. Besides Android makers simply do not even care about it unlike the Microsoft or Apple pruducts. They have to make better estimations because their chips can not be under/overvolted nor OCed. This is probably why Nexus 4 has thermal issues. Google wanted to allow developers to OC easily by trusting the 28Nm build but it turned out to be a bad idea with these voltage values.
Highschool level physics should tell you undervolting increases battery life...by how much...who knows.
The goal is to reduce the amount of watts the device consumes.
Power (W) = Voltage (v) * Current (amps)
Now the problem with this formula is we cannot use this to estimate on non constant variables, as we can adjust voltage, but one also must think amperage is also changed, so we need to get a formula that includes resistance which should be constant.
P = IV, V = IR, I = V/R so using some basic arithmetic we can get the formula (I'm not going to show the work)
P = V^2/R
As you can see reducing the voltage, has an exponential effect in reducing power usage...
So say we go from using 1.3125v (which is my stock at 1.6ghz) to 1.2v.
At 1.2v it will use only 83.6% of the energy compared to what it needs at 1.3125v to do the same job. This equates to an energy savings of 16.4% again this is only for the processor.
Undervolt the GPU, then the memory and internal voltage...it can all add up.
Edit...I see _delice_doluca_ has already posted a good explanation...I should of read the whole thread first
The truth - my and many others experience : more than 1/2 hour sreen on and lower temperature. Silicon/transitors/chip love low temperature. At lower temp, transitor can work at higher speed. Don't you want more speed and still have good battery life + temp?
For me, the time finding stable volt = reasonable. I spend max = 1- 2 days to find with difference kernel!
Sent from my GT-N7100
the only different for me is temperature, for battery saving, always not noticeable for me, placebo effect most likely
Daemos said:
Highschool level physics should tell you undervolting increases battery life...by how much...who knows.
The goal is to reduce the amount of watts the device consumes.
Power (W) = Voltage (v) * Current (amps)
Now the problem with this formula is we cannot use this to estimate on non constant variables, as we can adjust voltage, but one also must think amperage is also changed, so we need to get a formula that includes resistance which should be constant.
P = IV, V = IR, I = V/R so using some basic arithmetic we can get the formula (I'm not going to show the work)
P = V^2/R
As you can see reducing the voltage, has an exponential effect in reducing power usage...
So say we go from using 1.3125v (which is my stock at 1.6ghz) to 1.2v.
At 1.2v it will use only 83.6% of the energy compared to what it needs at 1.3125v to do the same job. This equates to an energy savings of 16.4% again this is only for the processor.
Undervolt the GPU, then the memory and internal voltage...it can all add up.
Edit...I see _delice_doluca_ has already posted a good explanation...I should of read the whole thread first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, but my demonstration on first post is also true ! So why is it opposite...?
Was this moved into dev discussion from elsewhere? (If so, can the person who moved it please PM me?)
Regardless, the OP seems to be making things more complicated than they need to be - and is also making an incorrect statement.
The overall power used by the processor CAN be changed.
The effect is similar to running a gasoline (petrol) engine with an overly rich fuel/air mix (which is usually done by most car manufacturers to compensate for poor fuels.)
Once you take into account that the power isn't fixed for a given speed, you can see that voltage can be reduced without raising the current - and has the effect of LOWERING (not raising) the heat resistance. (R=V/I - so if V is lowered and I remains the same, R must drop.)
That being said, the real-life impact of under-volting is usually negligible when compared to the overall drain of other aspects of the device (such as the radios and screen.)
Power = voltage^2 / resistance
So lowering the V of cpu there is a squared decrease
Resistance is constant mostly
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Raphy511 said:
Hello,
I am not sure that undervolting can increase battery life. I even think it's the opposite effect
Demonstration :
Increasing battery battery life means using less power.
Power (P) is : P=U(voltage) x I (Intensity)
Most energy used by processors is converted in heating. It is like a resistance.
Voltage for a resistance is U = R x I. (ohm)
So Power used by the processor is P = U * I = R * I * I = R x I^2
So to reduce energy consumption, we have to reduce P. We cannot change R, so we should decrease Intensity.
Power used by processor cannot be change. So if we undervolt, intensity is increasing so the processors heats more and it is the opposite effect.
So why undervolt?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are all in the wrong category of electronics, I or current does not exist as a constant in transistors. Semiconductor physics are different from normal macro-electronics. The same principles still apply but they are meaningless as their magnitude are lowered to nothingness.
Main power dissipation and power consumption is caused by dynamic leakage on the transistor gate while it is switching. Secondary power consumer is static leakage caused between gate and the body.
The usual simplified formula for CMOS transistors is expressed as
Power = Voltage² x Frequency x Capacitance
or
P = V² x f x C
That's basically it in very simplified terms. And as ewdinpang said, lowering voltage has a squared power decrease in the dynamic leakage power. This has been measured and proven, from myself included.
The full expanded forumula is here:
emprize said:
the only different for me is temperature, for battery saving, always not noticeable for me, placebo effect most likely
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a nonsensical argument, temperature aka heat, is power. If you are getting a less heated phone, then your battery life is improving. If this wouldn't be the case then you are holding the solution to the world's energy problems in your hands.
AndreiLux said:
You are all in the wrong category of electronics, I or current does not exist as a constant in transistors. Semiconductor physics are different from normal macro-electronics. The same principles still apply but they are meaningless as their magnitude are lowered to nothingness.
Main power dissipation and power consumption is caused by dynamic leakage on the transistor gate while it is switching. Secondary power consumer is static leakage caused between gate and the body.
The usual simplified formula for CMOS transistors is expressed as
Power = Voltage² x Frequency x Capacitance
or
P = V² x f x C
That's basically it in very simplified terms. And as ewdinpang said, lowering voltage has a squared power decrease in the dynamic leakage power. This has been measured and proven, from myself included.
The full expanded forumula is here:
This is a nonsensical argument, temperature aka heat, is power. If you are getting a less heated phone, then your battery life is improving. If this wouldn't be the case then you are holding the solution to the world's energy problems in your hands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*Nerdgasm*
I think....I Love you
I'm wondering if anybody can comment on this in regard to custom Roms, ie. Is this something that can be implemented in a custom ROM?
Thanks
" The G3’s battery life is aided by LG’s proprietary adaptive display technology. It’s called 3A, and can dial down the phone’s power draw based on the content you're viewing. 3A derives its name from the fact that the phone “adapts” three key smartphone elements: frame rate, processor clocking, and display driver. In terms of real-world impact, that 1440p display can draw the power of a 1080p display, preserving battery life when you need it the most."
How do i setup my phone to use black and white when i'm reading a book? I want to take full advantage of the AMOLED display and save both my battery and eye's.
I believe the phone does that automatically and switches to low Energy mode by reducing the Speed of the processor in cases of activities that don't require high Performance. You can as well activiate the Adaptive Power Saving which learns the usage Patterns and reduces or increases the Performance (therefore the power needed).
You download an ereader with support for amoled, true blacks.
I have gained root privileges. As you know, pixel6Pro has a strict temperature limit. This means that once the temperature of the mobile phone rises to about 40°C, the processor will start to reduce the operating frequency. When it reaches 43°C, all cores will not be allowed to work at a frequency above 1G... This will cause the phone to freeze very much. So will there be any mods to turn it off? I have an extra phone cooler./translate form Google
So you'd rather it have unlimited temperature to cause components to melt? There's a good reason why there is a temperature limit. I suggest that you don't mess around with it, or you will end up with a heap of garbage.
96carboard said:
So you'd rather it have unlimited temperature to cause components to melt? There's a good reason why there is a temperature limit. I suggest that you don't mess around with it, or you will end up with a heap of garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean to increase the upper limit instead of closing it ... I also have a Redmi K40, equipped with Snapdragon 870, and the phone temperature exceeds 48 ° C to start limiting the processor frequency ... In contrast, TensorG1's frequency limit from less than 40 ° C is too early..For example, at room temperature of 23 ° C, my Pixel6Pro played at a current of about 1A (power consumption of about 4W). About 15 minutes, the back cover temperature of the mobile phone would be close to 40 ° C, and then a disgusting frequency limit appeared. 40 ° C is very safe for the phone, isn't it? And the lower area of the Pixel6Pro heating speed is much faster than the camera area and processor area, which is not common sense, and I also want to know why.If the frequency limit starts at about 46 ° C, it will be a good choice.
I think people should study electronics first before they tinker. This is proof. MORE HEAT?
Gytole said:
I think people should study electronics first before they tinker. This is proof. MORE HEAT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your reply, but I can't understand what you mean by translating.
He means that different devices have different specification, and you will likely damage your device.
Arealhooman said:
He means that different devices have different specification, and you will likely damage your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But this is based on root, which has assumed that I bear all the consequences, right? Having said that, the Pixel6Pro is the phone with the lowest temperature limit I have ever used.Even the same garbage Snapdragon 888 chip has a frequency limit at about 43 ° C.I just use it to run small games, but it can't last for too long, which makes me wonder if this can be called a flagship phone. Leaving aside the peak performance, the Snapdragon 778G is much better than Tensor in many scenes.And Google made a lot of mistakes. In fact, the X1 core is much more efficient than the A76 core, but I don't understand why the more used is the A76 core? ? ? I like to test the power consumption data of the processor. After about half a month I conclude that [email protected] and [email protected] have almost the same performance, but the latter one needs to pay an additional power of about 0.25W+.Too crazy,right?
Juuuuune said:
But this is based on root, which has assumed that I bear all the consequences, right? Having said that, the Pixel6Pro is the phone with the lowest temperature limit I have ever used.Even the same garbage Snapdragon 888 chip has a frequency limit at about 43 ° C.I just use it to run small games, but it can't last for too long, which makes me wonder if this can be called a flagship phone. Leaving aside the peak performance, the Snapdragon 778G is much better than Tensor in many scenes.And Google made a lot of mistakes. In fact, the X1 core is much more efficient than the A76 core, but I don't understand why the more used is the A76 core? ? ? I like to test the power consumption data of the processor. After about half a month I conclude that [email protected] and [email protected] have almost the same performance, but the latter one needs to pay an additional power of about 0.25W+.Too crazy,right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a different SoC and different phone altogether, and the temperature reading could be from a different point, and it takes time for the heat to be conducted from the point of highest temperature to the sensor, which means that when you have a READING of 40C, the actual highest temperature point could be 75C.
Arealhooman said:
He means that different devices have different specification, and you will likely damage your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you won't. Removing the OEM throttling mechanism doesn't completely remove throttling. The SOC WILL throttle regardless of when it hits the set TjMax.
Also, the throttling they set is based on SKIN/Shell temperatures, usually on Pixel 6/7 starting around 37c SKIN, that's on the battery around 37c (all approximate). I don't own the Pixel 6, but the 7, and the SKIN temperature is set to start at 37c very mild throttling, and the more the temperature rises, the throttling level increases.
Ultimately, the "only" hardware that will suffer in the LONG RUN is the battery since batteries don't like high temperatures and degrade faster when exposed to XY temps.
Juuuuune said:
But this is based on root, which has assumed that I bear all the consequences, right? Having said that, the Pixel6Pro is the phone with the lowest temperature limit I have ever used.Even the same garbage Snapdragon 888 chip has a frequency limit at about 43 ° C.I just use it to run small games, but it can't last for too long, which makes me wonder if this can be called a flagship phone. Leaving aside the peak performance, the Snapdragon 778G is much better than Tensor in many scenes.And Google made a lot of mistakes. In fact, the X1 core is much more efficient than the A76 core, but I don't understand why the more used is the A76 core? ? ? I like to test the power consumption data of the processor. After about half a month I conclude that [email protected] and [email protected] have almost the same performance, but the latter one needs to pay an additional power of about 0.25W+.Too crazy,right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The temperature limits DEPEND on the OEM. It's NOT SOC SPECIFIC.
CPU and GPU are MOSTLY set to 85c/95c on Qualcomm Snapdragon SOCs. Pixel 7 series has the CPU set to 100C TjMax (I think the GPU is set to 95c, didn't check...)
The throttling you're talking about is based on the SKIN/Shell and EACH OEM has its own way of tunning this throttling mechanism.
JohnTheFarm3r said:
The temperature limits DEPEND on the OEM. It's NOT SOC SPECIFIC.
CPU and GPU are MOSTLY set to 85c/95c on Qualcomm Snapdragon SOCs. Pixel 7 series has the CPU set to 100C TjMax (I think the GPU is set to 95c, didn't check...)
The throttling you're talking about is based on the SKIN/Shell and EACH OEM has its own way of tunning this throttling mechanism.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The temperature limit of a specific SoC is determined by the characteristics of *that SoC*, not by whoever glues parts together.
96carboard said:
The temperature limit of a specific SoC is determined by the characteristics of *that SoC*, not by whoever glues parts together.
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I'm suggesting you go and check (inform/educate yourself) a bit on this topic and how exactly this works. A SOC has an operating temperature range (from-to), THAT IS VERY TRUE (and I'm not talking about the operating temperature range specification here) but OEM decides what TJMax they want to set on the CPU or GPU (or any other component inside the phone)
So, if the OEM wants, they can set the TJMax for the CPU at 110c or more. Obviously, they don't do this for various reasons and most importantly to decrease the degradation of the silicon as much as possible (lower temps, longer life). And if you're experienced enough and know how to configure the throttling you can raise the Tjmax yourself. Google raised the TjMax on Tensor G2 to 100c. G1 was set to 90c, but they could have set it to 100C too if they wanted. And this is done on the OS side. (OEM side)
For your information, on Tensor (both G1 and G2), you can raise the TJMax of the CPU or GPU (or any other component) just by editing the thermal zones inside sys/devices/virtual/thermal > Thermal Zones (needs root).
And as someone who already made various thermal mods (magisk modules for various devices), I'm VERY well aware of how is thermal throttling handled and what can be done.
JohnTheFarm3r said:
I'm suggesting you go and check (inform/educate yourself) a bit on this topic and how exactly this works. A SOC has an operating temperature range (from-to), THAT IS VERY TRUE (and I'm not talking about the operating temperature range specification here) but OEM decides what TJMax they want to set on the CPU or GPU (or any other component inside the phone)
So, if the OEM wants, they can set the TJMax for the CPU at 110c or more. Obviously, they don't do this for various reasons and most importantly to decrease the degradation of the silicon as much as possible (lower temps, longer life). And if you're experienced enough and know how to configure the throttling you can raise the Tjmax yourself. Google raised the TjMax on Tensor G2 to 100c. G1 was set to 90c, but they could have set it to 100C too if they wanted. And this is done on the OS side. (OEM side)
For your information, on Tensor (both G1 and G2), you can raise the TJMax of the CPU or GPU (or any other component) just by editing the thermal zones inside sys/devices/virtual/thermal > Thermal Zones (needs root).
And as someone who already made various thermal mods (magisk modules for various devices), I'm VERY well aware of how is thermal throttling handled and what can be done.
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Thank you for your reply. In the file directory you mentioned, I found many files starting with "thermal_zone" followed by numbers. But I'm not good at this field, can you tell me more? I know you have a magisk module for pixel7Pro, I want to know if you can modify some parameters to make it work on pixel6Pro? （Or are they inherently universal?） I have a pixel6Pro which rooted , maybe it can be used for your test.