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What is the difference between VZW Location Services and Google Location Services?
Thanks,
Jeff
Not to be a smart ass but ones from VZW and ones from Google. Lol, I'm pretty sure thats the only difference.
cmlusco said:
Not to be a smart ass but ones from VZW and ones from Google. Lol, I'm pretty sure thats the only difference.
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That was fairly obvious!
Been reading up on it myself and google brought me here. Thought I may learn something new. So Far I have learned:
VZW Location Services provides location data to phone/apps via Cell Towers (Useful if indoors), GPS location data when a clear line of sight to sky is available (Will use more battery power as it is a seperate chip/component) and Google Location services uses a Wifi Network "Guesstimate" (the least accurate of all three). What it comes down to is accuracy and battery life/usage.
Go with vzw services if you want accuracy and little battery usage, however if you keep wifi on allot (or have eg Juice Defender Installed) use Google. Most of time I use Google. I am however on the paranoid side as it is. I read where a Verizon Tech stated that you can be located within 2-10seconds with that enabled. However if I were up to no good I would simply remove battery, just bothers me my phone company knows where I am. They sell that data possibly more, yet do I get a discount for that?
I only use GPS when driving.
I think you've got it a bit mixed up. There's a few ways our phones can get location information.
Think of it this way.
--- satellite GPS = Your phone connects with satellites to determine the location. It can pinpoint your location within feet if it has a good enough lock. You can still get locks indoors, and yes it does use a considerable about of battery if you use it continually. If it only turns on for about a minute just to get a single lock on your location, it really has no impact on battery. If you run it for 20-30mins+ is when you start to notice. You have the option to completely turn this off if you want. Really it's best to keep it on, because your phone will not actually turn it on and use it unless an app tells it to (like navigation).
--- WIFI GPS = Your phone can determine your location by using the WiFi the same way you can go to http://www.geoiptool.com/ on your desktop and it can get a generic idea of where you're at (usually not more specific than the city you're in). Google likes to use this because it needs some sort of location information so it can best provide searches and advertisements. This is the least accurate. This also has an option to be turned off.
--- assisted GPS or aGPS = your phone uses the network you're on (in this case, Verizon) and it can give a rough estimate by triangulating your position through nearby cell towers.
It's called assisted GPS because it actually helps the 'satellite GPS' by letting the satellites know the general area of where you're at, so it can get a lock quicker and with less battery.
Assisted GPS does not require any additional battery or wait time because your phone is already connecting with those towers just by having a signal (the more towers in your area, the smaller area it can guess you're at)
When you first start up a GPS application (or if you disable the 'satellite GPS'), you'll see a circle around a very wide area. This is what the radio tower/VZW/assisted GPS is. Then after a minute or so, it'll lock on, this is the 'satellite GPS'.
Also there is a separate chip in all phones that determines your location if you dial 911. You can not turn it off, and I'd imagine that the government could use it with reason. If this is in use there should be an icon that pops up, you've probably never seen it.
If you're worried about your location, the only thing you can do is turn off your phone or remove your battery if you're really paranoid.
All this info is to the best of my understanding.
Hope this clears it up.
POQbum said:
I think you've got it a bit mixed up. There's a few ways our phones can get location information.
Think of it this way.
--- satellite GPS = Your phone connects with satellites to determine the location. It can pinpoint your location within feet if it has a good enough lock. You can still get locks indoors, and yes it does use a considerable about of battery if you use it continually. If it only turns on for about a minute just to get a single lock on your location, it really has no impact on battery. If you run it for 20-30mins+ is when you start to notice. You have the option to completely turn this off if you want. Really it's best to keep it on, because your phone will not actually turn it on and use it unless an app tells it to (like navigation).
--- WIFI GPS = Your phone can determine your location by using the WiFi the same way you can go to on your desktop and it can get a generic idea of where you're at (usually not more specific than the city you're in). Google likes to use this because it needs some sort of location information so it can best provide searches and advertisements. This is the least accurate. This also has an option to be turned off.
--- assisted GPS or aGPS = your phone uses the network you're on (in this case, Verizon) and it can give a rough estimate by triangulating your position through nearby cell towers.
It's called assisted GPS because it actually helps the 'satellite GPS' by letting the satellites know the general area of where you're at, so it can get a lock quicker and with less battery.
Assisted GPS does not require any additional battery or wait time because your phone is already connecting with those towers just by having a signal (the more towers in your area, the smaller area it can guess you're at)
When you first start up a GPS application (or if you disable the 'satellite GPS'), you'll see a circle around a very wide area. This is what the radio tower/VZW/assisted GPS is. Then after a minute or so, it'll lock on, this is the 'satellite GPS'.
Also there is a separate chip in all phones that determines your location if you dial 911. You can not turn it off, and I'd imagine that the government could use it with reason. If this is in use there should be an icon that pops up, you've probably never seen it.
If you're worried about your location, the only thing you can do is turn off your phone or remove your battery if you're really paranoid.
All this info is to the best of my understanding.
Hope this clears it up.
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I just joined to say thanks for this. I've been searching forums for this, and could only find half the info or smart @$$ responses on other sites. I've been searching for possible bugs and battery drains ever since the ics update and the media app smoked razr maxx battery and burned my phone to the point where the back turned brown.
Hi guys. I'm a newbie in the Windows Mobile world.
Is there an app that allows CellID to be collected by the MsAPI GPS Intermediate Driver? This would surely reduce the locking time of GPS device and even provide a quick instant Facebook Places using Dorothy browser which unlike Android browser which uses hard gps fix.
I found and tried the GPS Mod Driver which suppose to doing this. However, the CellID does not seems to updates even when I updates it. This means that my location was stuck at location A even when I'm in other location.
The CellID is revealed by opening a session to the RIL and calling RIL_GetCellTowerInfo(). The structure returned only has the ID of the Cell Tower in it, not its location.
A secondary lookup has to be performed to translate this into an actual Lat-Long location. Most CellID lookup web services are paid for subscriptions or restricted in their scope.
The Siglog application in the signature below, will display the cell ID, but it does not translate across to the location. That comes out of the GPS driver.
Also, there is nothing in the MS Intermediate GPS driver that lets you supply it with a previously obtained location. You just open it, and then wait for a location changed event, when it gets a usable satellite lock.
Hi alexysc88. I've been using gpsmod for quite a while now on my blackstone, and I've used it across several ROMS without a problem. In fact, I use it the way you describe your needs. XDAFacebook picks up my lat/long almost instantly when I use the check-in feature, same with pocket twit.
I think you don't get the same results that I do because gpsmod doesn't really work immediately (at least not accurately) after installing. After a fresh install, I disable HTC's built-in location service, and set gpsmod to replace it. Then when I go travelling around, I enable my GPS app. I "enable internet data" when I know I'll have consistent 3G signal, otherwise I disable it, but then I manually "update" gpsmod at the end of each day or when I have fast Wifi available. Eventually, gpsmod will return my lat/lon as soon as any gps app with increasing accuracy over time.
This doesn't mean that it is able to switch to cell tower location info when it can't pick up a GPS signal. gpsmod only uses cell tower location initially, then hands-off to the GPS radio after a second or two.
I hope this helps.
Hey guys,
I tried searching on google but to no solution.
The problem is when I switch off all forms of data except cellular coverage, my location changes to a City where I'm not at. I went to that place maybe thrice since I got the phone.
My location in Maps, Weather or even location saved along when I take pictures will be that other/wrong location.
Its easily fixable by just starting one of the data services, but why should I even face it in the first place.
Its happened on all ROMs and wipes don't fix it. Done a full wipe twice from cwm.
My GPS works normally when I'm using maps, it takes about 30 seconds to get a lock on my location.
Any workaround or solution or fix? (except for not keeping data switched on all the time)
Thank You.
Cheers.
death__machine said:
Hey guys,
I tried searching on google but to no solution.
The problem is when I switch off all forms of data except cellular coverage, my location changes to a City where I'm not at. I went to that place maybe thrice since I got the phone.
My location in Maps, Weather or even location saved along when I take pictures will be that other/wrong location.
Its easily fixable by just starting one of the data services, but why should I even face it in the first place.
Its happened on all ROMs and wipes don't fix it. Done a full wipe twice from cwm.
My GPS works normally when I'm using maps, it takes about 30 seconds to get a lock on my location.
Any workaround or solution or fix? (except for not keeping data switched on all the time)
Thank You.
Cheers.
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Location without GPS is online service. I hope that answers your question about "fixing" it.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
There's three things at play in plotting location: 1) GPS, 2), aGPS, and 3) Geo-location
GPS is the onboard chip functioning alone to pick up satellite signals and lock on them. You can test how well your GPS chip alone works by putting the phone in airplane mode and rebooting it.
All aGPS does is use a wireless signal (Wi-FI or cellular) to help the chip get its first lock faster. Once lock is established the chip is on its own.
From Wiki...
"Assisted GPS is a system which can, under certain conditions, improve the startup performance, or time-to-first-fix (TTFF) of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones as its development was accelerated by the U.S. FCC's 911 mandate making the location of a cell phone available to emergency call dispatchers."
Geo-location uses wireless signals alone to approximate position. Devices w/o a GPS rely on this for location based services.
From Wiki...
"Geolocation is the identification of the real-world geographic location of an object, such as a radar, mobile phone or an Internet-connected computer terminal. Geolocation may refer to the practice of assessing the location, or to the actual assessed location."
Once the chip locks, it memorizes the position of the satellites. So if you had your wireless on to get first lock and then turned it off the chip is still using the satellite locations aGPS helped it find. If you want to test the performance of your chip itself reboot it in airplane mode. Download GPS Test from Play. It'll give you a much better picture of what's happening with your phone. I just tried it on mine and indoors it locked and got down to 15’ accuracy in less than a minute. Conditions affect performance but, at least outdoors, yours should do as well or better than mine. If it doesn’t, it’s a h/w problem.
tkolev said:
Location without GPS is online service. I hope that answers your question about "fixing" it.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
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BarryH_GEG said:
There's three things at play in plotting location: 1) GPS, 2), aGPS, and 3) Geo-location
GPS is the onboard chip functioning alone to pick up satellite signals and lock on them. You can test how well your GPS chip alone works by putting the phone in airplane mode and rebooting it.
All aGPS does is use a wireless signal (Wi-FI or cellular) to help the chip get its first lock faster. Once lock is established the chip is on its own.
From Wiki...
"Assisted GPS is a system which can, under certain conditions, improve the startup performance, or time-to-first-fix (TTFF) of a GPS satellite-based positioning system. It is used extensively with GPS-capable cellular phones as its development was accelerated by the U.S. FCC's 911 mandate making the location of a cell phone available to emergency call dispatchers."
Geo-location uses wireless signals alone to approximate position. Devices w/o a GPS rely on this for location based services.
From Wiki...
"Geolocation is the identification of the real-world geographic location of an object, such as a radar, mobile phone or an Internet-connected computer terminal. Geolocation may refer to the practice of assessing the location, or to the actual assessed location."
Once the chip locks, it memorizes the position of the satellites. So if you had your wireless on to get first lock and then turned it off the chip is still using the satellite locations aGPS helped it find. If you want to test the performance of your chip itself reboot it in airplane mode. Download GPS Test from Play. It'll give you a much better picture of what's happening with your phone. I just tried it on mine and indoors it locked and got down to 15’ accuracy in less than a minute. Conditions affect performance but, at least outdoors, yours should do as well or better than mine. If it doesn’t, it’s a h/w problem.
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Click to collapse
Thanks, that was a very informative post.
Well I switched on GPS and put my phone in airplane mode and restarted. The Maps App keeps saying "Your current location is temporarily unavailable" and I can't figure how to use the GPS Test yet.
Okay, I did get a lock-on from the Maps and the GPS Test app. I went closer to my window lol . Now I'll see if my location comes up wrong.
Edit:Location came up accurate in weather.
Edit2:Location is accurate in a photo I clicked with everything off.
By accurate I hope you understand what I mean, when all the data goes off the phone should still think its in the place/location where it was when the data was on. Ii.e Surat in my case. But what used to happened before today(gps in airplane) was without data the phone will think its in Pune, which is a 12 hours drive from here.
I'm not the only one who's faced this, some say its a bug in sense :/
Anyways here's a thread I saw earlier
http://www.htconesource.com/forum/htc-one-x-discussion/1042-incorrect-location.html
The answers the guy gets are retarded.
To be sure, are you saying that when only on mobile data and relying upon that, you cannot get an accurate location down to 1 KM?
If so, this sounds like a software issue or a carrier issue.
If your GPS has poor reception then I would advise getting warranty repair. It might have the same issue as the Wifi antennas do.
Yeah just so you know pure GPS is line of sight, you have to have a clear view of the sky to work (no clouds either).
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Hunt3r.j2 said:
To be sure, are you saying that when only on mobile data and relying upon that, you cannot get an accurate location down to 1 KM?
If so, this sounds like a software issue or a carrier issue.
If your GPS has poor reception then I would advise getting warranty repair. It might have the same issue as the Wifi antennas do.
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jonshipman said:
Yeah just so you know pure GPS is line of sight, you have to have a clear view of the sky to work (no clouds either).
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
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No no.
My location when all services are on shows up fine. But say I have a weather widget and all my data services are off, instead of showing the location detected last when data services was on the widget and other settings will show another city.
I'll explain it with an example.
Lets have a hypothetical country with all the letters as its cities.
I stay in 'S' at present. I have visited 'P' and 'M' a couple of times but I'm back to 'S' now. On the occasion that my data services switch off, intentionally or because of weak coverage. Instead of showing 'S' as my location in the weather widget, app and geotag the phone will show 'P' which I had visited days ago.
Loving the phone so far. However, upon each reboot, it asks me to agree to letting Google track my whereabouts. It says ""Allow Google's location service to collect anonymous location data..." Of course, I have disagreed every time, but it keeps asking. How can I disable that.
Also, I use Llama to turn off mobile data while I am in range of various wireless access points. However, it keeps warning me about that, saying "Your mobile data connection is turned off. Unless you use WiFi, you will not be able to use the internet, email, or other apps...." Is there anyway to disable the pop-up/warning?
And last, how can I replace the weather and time widget on the lock screen, and replace it with something else?
Kindly
Michael
Did you ever find a solution to this issue? I'm experiencing the same thing using Tasker to regulate data on/off.
Unlike many modern versions of Android, I can find no three-tiered setting for GPS accuracy. I'm looking to set it to "Device Only" but it's either off or on, with a few additional location options but nothing more for GPS.
I'm using lineage 17, the second to last update, on a Samsung Tab 4 and I just want to restrict the device to the system GPS app GPS I've set (but it keeps drifting).
neocortex08 said:
Unlike many modern versions of Android, I can find no three-tiered setting for GPS accuracy. I'm looking to set it to "Device Only" but it's either off or on, with a few additional location options but nothing more for GPS.
I'm using lineage 17, the second to last update, on a Samsung Tab 4 and I just want to restrict the device to the system GPS app GPS I've set (but it keeps drifting).
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Click to collapse
I don't see any android 10 distro with the old settings (high precision/ device only/energy saving)
GApps installed?
kurtn said:
I don't see any android 10 distro with the old settings (high precision/ device only/energy saving)
GApps installed?
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Click to collapse
Yes, Gapps installed and working well (version for Android 10, nano),but I'm not sure google settings would change what would be in the device system settings. I guess I'm just looking for some way to force that missing setting without having to resort to tin foil around the device.
neocortex08 said:
Yes, Gapps installed and working well (version for Android 10, nano),but I'm not sure google settings would change what would be in the device system settings. I guess I'm just looking for some way to force that missing setting without having to reset to tin foil around the device.
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No matter what settings you change, Google knows your location.
kurtn said:
No matter what settings you change, Google knows your location.
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Click to collapse
I'm not tin-foil-hat-concerned with Google knowing my location; I'm referring to the systemized GPS app I installed to be able to determine the location I set. Which it can currently, and can usually continue to do when I can set the device to take GPS from "device only". In this case it shows me on the map "rubberbanding" between my actual location and the location I've set about 100 feet away. This is because the OS is allowing the device to try and locate its own location.
neocortex08 said:
I'm not tin-foil-hat-concerned with Google knowing my location; I'm referring to the systemized GPS app I installed to be able to determine the location I set. Which it can currently, and can usually continue to do when I can set the device to take GPS from "device only". In this case it shows me on the map "rubberbanding" between my actual location and the location I've set about 100 feet away. This is because the OS is allowing the device to try and locate its own location.
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Click to collapse
Oh, location spoofing
https://f-droid.org/app/com.wesaphzt.privatelocation
GPS drains battery
With previous (before 17) it was possible to set the location service to be switched on, but only use cell data.
When I use the gps device it drains my battery much faster.
Therefore: How can I leave the location service on, but DO NOT USE the gps device in LOS 17 ????
Thanks in advance
Chris
Chris56 said:
How can I leave the location service on, but DO NOT USE the gps device in LOS 17 ????
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+1
luckysoul777 said:
+1
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Do you try to spoof your location? And why? What location providers do you have? GApps?
I guess your reply refers to my question.
Maybe I was not clear.
With former LOS versions I was able to explicitly choose whether to use the (battery draining) gps receiver for my location or not.
I have several other sources of location information (gsm cell based and wifi based) usually with less accuracy. But I may prefer theses under certain circumstances because of less power consumption. I Don't use google but microg.
kurtn said:
Do you try to spoof your location? And why? What location providers do you have? GApps?
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Click to collapse
No. I am not trying to spoof anything. I have an automation program called Tasker on my S4. When I was on stock Samsung ROM (5.0.1), I was able to use the "location mode" in Tasker to switch between high accuracy and battery save. If Tasker detected I was running Google Maps, it switched on high accuracy. If not, it switched over to battery save. From what I can tell, high accuracy used GPS + network and battery save used network only.
Now, I'm on LOS 17.1 and battery save would turn on GPS too. It seems the only way to not use GPS is to turn off location mode altogether. This makes me wonder what the differences are between Device Only and Battery Save modes. Since I cannot tell, I am assuming both modes are provided for backward compatibility to Tasker users but the underlining Android 10 doesn't differentiate them.
I am suspecting with Android 10, there are only 3 modes.
* GPS + network
* GPS
* OFF
Thus, if one needs the location service, GPS must be used.
I raised this question elsewhere. Some people actually told me that GPS doesn't consume much power if it's just turned on but not being used, e.g. by Google Maps. I have no way to verify if they are right.
luckysoul777 said:
No. I am not trying to spoof anything. I have an automation program called Tasker on my S4. When I was on stock Samsung ROM (5.0.1), I was able to use the "location mode" in Tasker to switch between high accuracy and battery save. If Tasker detected I was running Google Maps, it switched on high accuracy. If not, it switched over to battery save. From what I can tell, high accuracy used GPS + network and battery save used network only.
Now, I'm on LOS 17.1 and battery save would turn on GPS too. It seems the only way to not use GPS is to turn off location mode altogether. This makes me wonder what the differences are between Device Only and Battery Save modes. Since I cannot tell, I am assuming both modes are provided for backward compatibility to Tasker users but the underlining Android 10 doesn't differentiate them.
I am suspecting with Android 10, there are only 3 modes.
* GPS + network
* GPS
* OFF
Thus, if one needs the location service, GPS must be used.
I raised this question elsewhere. Some people actually told me that GPS doesn't consume much power if it's just turned on but not being used, e.g. by Google Maps. I have no way to verify if they are right.
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Click to collapse
Network location is not part of lineageOS. You can add it with GApps or microG. Have you?
Enabling location does not power the satellite receivers continuously. It really needs battery. The job of your tasker script is done by android 10 automatically. If you suspected apps to drain battery with GPS, disable their location permission!
kurtn said:
Network location is not part of lineageOS. You can add it with GApps or microG. Have you?
!
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Click to collapse
I'm using Gapps, the nano package. Do you know which one comes with network location? I can't tell because this comparison chart doesn't show it for any packages, https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Package-Comparison
kurtn said:
If you suspected apps to drain battery with GPS, disable their location permission!
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Click to collapse
The reason I preferred to keep it on battery save instead of off completely in the old days was that if I ever lost my phone, I wanted to be able to track it. Now with Android 10's mandatory GPS for location service, if I want to disable abusive apps from requesting unnecessary location service, which app should I avoid disabling? Which app is giving out my phone's location if I am tracking it remotely?
Thank you
luckysoul777 said:
I'm using Gapps, the nano package. Do you know which one comes with network location? I can't tell because this comparison chart doesn't show it for any packages, https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Package-Comparison
The reason I preferred to keep it on battery save instead of off completely in the old days was that if I ever lost my phone, I wanted to be able to track it. Now with Android 10's mandatory GPS for location service, if I want to disable abusive apps from requesting unnecessary location service, which app should I avoid disabling? Which app is giving out my phone's location if I am tracking it remotely? Thank you
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Click to collapse
I think the answer to both questions is Google play services. com.google.android.gms It's the mightiest app on your phone. I avoid installing it.
kurtn said:
I think the answer to both questions is Google play services. com.android.google.gms It's the mightiest app on your phone. I avoid installing it.
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Click to collapse
I still see one drawback with very selectively granting apps location service. For example, I do want to grant Chrome location service to facilitate better search. If I'm indoor, wouldn't GPS without a clear view of the sky trying very hard to get a fix and thus burn more power than necessary? With that said, can High Accuracy (GPS + network) actually be more power efficient under Android 10 than Battery Save (GPS only)? This is assuming Chrome would give up on GPS when it can't get a fix and be happy with just network while Battery Save would keep trying to get a fix with GPS. Again, this is just my assumption.