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Dear Friends,
I am a US consumer. About to buy a Verizon LG G3. My number # 1 priority in a phone is, more of less development support for a phone. Number of ROMs being developed, how many choices, mods, frequent updates, and etc.
Clearly, the International version D855 is the King. Number 2 is probably D851, the T-Mobile US Variant with the Unlocked bootloader. International versions are expensive and hard to find in America and it's more or less the same for the T-Mobile version.
I browsed the Development section for all G3 variants on XDA, and surprisingly, the number 3 variant is the Verizon, US Model! Which is fine by me, because it can be unlocked and used on AT&T and I am moving to Verizon soon, for the better coverage and LTE speeds.
I am lined up to pull the trigger on buying the Verizon G3, as we speak, but I need some help confirmation from you guys:
1. Is it true, that with the BUMP'd/TWRP recovery, the Verizon G3 is as good as the Unlocked bootloader models, like D851 and D855? If not, what is the difference, disadvantage?
2. How would you rate the Development support for the Verizon variant of the LG G3?
Thank you for your help! I have the seller lined up, please respond as soon as you can, I would really appreciate it!
ProFragger said:
Dear Friends,
I am a US consumer. About to buy a Verizon LG G3. My number # 1 priority in a phone is, more of less development support for a phone. Number of ROMs being developed, how many choices, mods, frequent updates, and etc.
Clearly, the International version D855 is the King. Number 2 is probably D851, the T-Mobile US Variant with the Unlocked bootloader. International versions are expensive and hard to find in America and it's more or less the same for the T-Mobile version.
I browsed the Development section for all G3 variants on XDA, and surprisingly, the number 3 variant is the Verizon, US Model! Which is fine by me, because it can be unlocked and used on AT&T and I am moving to Verizon soon, for the better coverage and LTE speeds.
I am lined up to pull the trigger on buying the Verizon G3, as we speak, but I need some help confirmation from you guys:
1. Is it true, that with the BUMP'd/TWRP recovery, the Verizon G3 is as good as the Unlocked bootloader models, like D851 and D855? If not, what is the difference, disadvantage?
2. How would you rate the Development support for the Verizon variant of the LG G3?
Thank you for your help! I have the seller lined up, please respond as soon as you can, I would really appreciate it!
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you should post this on a verizon / att development since that's what you're mainly going to be at. This is only for t mobile variant. I don't think know people would know about verizon since we don't own that... On another note, there isn't tons of development because in my opinion the phone with a few tweaks is awesome.
I'm looking to buy a refurbished G3 and although I'm on a T-Mobile MVNO and prefer T-Mobile devices for their unlocked bootloaders, an ebay reseller I trust is offering the VS985 in as new condition for a price that is about $50 less than the best I can find for the D851.
The Verizon development scene seems pretty healthy and root/TWRP seem to be readily available. I will probably stay with KitKat and install either CloudyG3 1.2 or Skydragon KK.
Is there any reason to prefer an unlocked AT&T D850 over the Verizon VS985? I realize that with either device I will not have T-Mobile wifi calling or VoLTE but I rarely make calls so that is not a priority,. Are there other significant reasons to avoid the Verizon/AT&T G3 in preference to the T-Mobile D851 I'm overlooking?
Thanks
PS - Still interested in this intellectually but I ended up buying a D851 for a very good price off Swappa.
One reason might be the LTE bands supported by the VS985 variant. It may not support the necessary ones to get 4G LTE on T-Mobile's network.
How much did you end up getting the 851 for after all was said and done?
ultrasuper said:
One reason might be the LTE bands supported by the VS985 variant. It may not support the necessary ones to get 4G LTE on T-Mobile's network.
How much did you end up getting the 851 for after all was said and done?
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I have had both unlocked AT&T and Verizon phones in the New York City area and both of them got LTE everywhere it was available. I don't travel to remote areas (and if I did I probably wouldn't use TMO) so I don't miss the missing bands.
I paid $300 for a mint D851 on Swappa vs $275 for a mint VS985 from a reseller I trust on ebay. The average low price on the D851 seems to be about $325 or more on both Swappa and ebay, given that there are relatively few D851s for sale.
Now just this past week T-Mobile took the G3 off their website (they are still selling the G2 new at ~$350 or pre-owned at $230) so I would expect there to be a lot more D851s in good condition at better prices on ebay as TMO gets rid of their overstock once the G4 is available. Be interesting to see if it goes as low as $250 for a mint "refurb" in a few months.
I'm curious to know what model people received direct from Moto in the US. My Z Play was given as a gift and bought from Best Buy, but it's XT1635-02, which I keep reading is an International model.
For those in the US that bought direct from Motorola, what's your model number?
mostcallmerob said:
I'm curious to know what model people received direct from Moto in the US. My Z Play was given as a gift and bought from Best Buy, but it's XT1635-02, which I keep reading is an International model.
For those in the US that bought direct from Motorola, what's your model number?
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The same XT 1635-02...
I ordered my Moto Z Play Droid direct from Motorola, and got model number XT1635-01
XT1635-01 is the Verizon US variant, XT1635-02 is the US AND international varaints, XT1635-03 is the chinese variant. XT1635-02 can be either dual or single sim, and only differs in the software channels(retus, reteu, retla, etc). I think XT1635-03 is dual sim only, but im not sure. If you want to confirm your device is for the US market, go to settings > About phone and check the software channel which should read retus.
Seems silly that they would use the same model number for different regions with different band support. Confusing
catpunt said:
Seems silly that they would use the same model number for different regions with different band support. Confusing
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All XT1635-02 variants support the same GSM bands. XT1635-03 supports the chinese WCDMA bands and probably some GSM bands. XT1635-01 supports US CDMA bands and some GSM bands. Arguably motorola probably just disabled the CDMA and WCDMA bands on the XT1635-02 so that people would actually buy the phone from verizon as opposed to buying it from the manufacturer. Which verizon made a deal with them to try and grab more customers by saying "Look at this innovative new phone! Only here at Verizon!" as is clearly obvious by the phone being exclucive for a few months before international release.
jon7701 said:
All XT1635-02 variants support the same GSM bands. XT1635-03 supports the chinese WCDMA bands and probably some GSM bands. XT1635-01 supports US CDMA bands and some GSM bands. Arguably motorola probably just disabled the CDMA and WCDMA bands on the XT1635-02 so that people would actually buy the phone from verizon as opposed to buying it from the manufacturer. Which verizon made a deal with them to try and grab more customers by saying "Look at this innovative new phone! Only here at Verizon!" as is clearly obvious by the phone being exclucive for a few months before international release.
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Perhaps, but that doesn't support why the Europe and USA versions of the unlocked XT1635-02 have different band support. Seems like this wouldn't have anything to do with Verizon exclusivity, and if the hardware support is there, why not make all bands available for true world support?
catpunt said:
Perhaps, but that doesn't support why the Europe and USA versions of the unlocked XT1635-02 have different band support. Seems like this wouldn't have anything to do with Verizon exclusivity, and if the hardware support is there, why not make all bands available for true world support?
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Checking motorola's site on the band support, XT1632-02 retus supports UMTS band 1700, reteu does not, however reteu support LTE bands 25 and 41, while retus does not. One of the reasons companies love proprietary software is because they can get away with doing things they dont want you to know about. Motorola can disable select bands on different variants and knows you have no way of enabling them (or even knowing if you can) since you do not have access to their source code. I cannot say for 100% sure that every variant supports the same bands hardware wise, but it would cost motorola more money to manufacture the phone with 3 or 4 different radios than it would be to just include 1 radio and then disable what they dont want you to access. The support I have that they do use this practice is because all XT1635-02 still have the pins for a second sim even on the single sim models. This would reduce manufacturing costs by skipping an unneeded step of seperating the phones between dual and single sim. On the Moto X Play some people were even able to activate the second sim on single sim only models. If you were around during the Nexus 4 era, Google intentionally disabled 4G LTE on that phone for seemingly no reason. Devs were able to figure that out and were able to unlock the 4G LTE capabilities. About Verizon exclucivity, if motorola disables the CDMA bands on their international model, you have to buy your phone from verizon if you want to use it on verizon. Lenovo (Motorola) has had big success with verizon exclucives from their droid series and they want to keep it that way. So in order to make costumers keep buying Droid phones they make it so that you have buy from verizon if you want CDMA support or you're SOL. This also allows verizon to lock down what CDMA carriers the phone can be used on (Which currently is only verizon AFAIK). Why they dont just enable all bands on all models is a good question, but once again it could have to do with the Verizon exclucivity because remember the verizon model was the first to be released. You had to buy the phone from verizon or motorola in order to get it which helps the Droid series sell. Releasing the phone 3 months later with global support could hurt the Droid series and potentially piss of customers.
jon7701 said:
Checking motorola's site on the band support, XT1632-02 retus supports UMTS band 1700, reteu does not, however reteu support LTE bands 25 and 41, while retus does not. One of the reasons companies love proprietary software is because they can get away with doing things they dont want you to know about. Motorola can disable select bands on different variants and knows you have no way of enabling them (or even knowing if you can) since you do not have access to their source code. I cannot say for 100% sure that every variant supports the same bands hardware wise, but it would cost motorola more money to manufacture the phone with 3 or 4 different radios than it would be to just include 1 radio and then disable what they dont want you to access. The support I have that they do use this practice is because all XT1635-02 still have the pins for a second sim even on the single sim models. This would reduce manufacturing costs by skipping an unneeded step of seperating the phones between dual and single sim. On the Moto X Play some people were even able to activate the second sim on single sim only models. If you were around during the Nexus 4 era, Google intentionally disabled 4G LTE on that phone for seemingly no reason. Devs were able to figure that out and were able to unlock the 4G LTE capabilities. About Verizon exclucivity, if motorola disables the CDMA bands on their international model, you have to buy your phone from verizon if you want to use it on verizon. Lenovo (Motorola) has had big success with verizon exclucives from their droid series and they want to keep it that way. So in order to make costumers keep buying Droid phones they make it so that you have buy from verizon if you want CDMA support or you're SOL. This also allows verizon to lock down what CDMA carriers the phone can be used on (Which currently is only verizon AFAIK).
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Thanks for the detailed info.
One weird thing is this: according to http://willmyphonework.net/ the unlocked USA version of the Moto Z Play has partial T-Mobile 3G and 4G support, while the unlocked Europe version has partial T-Mobile 3G support and full 4G support. However the unlocked Mexico version apparently has full 2G/3G/4G support. ??? Sounds like the USA version is actually the worst in terms of band support for T-Mobile.
catpunt said:
Thanks for the detailed info.
One weird thing is this: according to http://willmyphonework.net/ the unlocked USA version of the Moto Z Play has partial T-Mobile 3G and 4G support, while the unlocked Europe version has partial T-Mobile 3G support and full 4G support. However the unlocked Mexico version apparently has full 2G/3G/4G support. ??? Sounds like the USA version is actually the worst in terms of band support for T-Mobile.
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Funny enough on their motorola's own website, they say the US version only has partial support for AT&T and full support for T-Mobile. https://www.motorola.com/us/carrier-compatibility I guess we'll never know whats going through the minds of the people at Lenovo. I also added a bit to my previous post about the global bit of your question.
Something to remember is that for most handset manufacturers, the carrier is their customer, not you. When handset manufacturers have a new phone to sell, they hand-make some prototypes and hawk them around the carriers (networks). If the network likes it, they will usually say "I'll only take it if it has this, this and this, and has that, that and that removed". Manufacturer then does some horse trading, hence "that would be uneconomic to remove from hardware, but we can disable it in the firmware".
Eventually they reach agreement and the network says "deal, I'll take 500,00" (for example) and agrees the payment. It's those advance payments (or borrowing against them) that fund the cost of production, and hopefully leave some profit left over for the manufacturer. This is why what the networks want always takes precedence - international unlocked sales are always a complete unknown, and usually a very small part of total sales. For most handset manufacturers, it's those exclusive deals with networks that keep the lights on. Only the iPhone ever bucked that trend, by being seen as a single product with such high demand that it gave the manufacturer more power than the networks. Android phones are divided between lots of different models and multiple manufacturers, which means that the manufacturer's bargaining power for a single model is very limited.
jon7701 said:
Funny enough on their motorola's own website, they say the US version only has partial support for AT&T and full support for T-Mobile. https://www.motorola.com/us/carrier-compatibility I guess we'll never know whats going through the minds of the people at Lenovo. I also added a bit to my previous post about the global bit of your question.
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Are you saying the info on the moto site isn't 100% correct? I wanted to get one of these for AT&T but it shows it is only somewhat compatible compared to Tmobile i
also see no checkmark by republic wireless, but I know for a fact RW is selling them on their website, and there is even a RW promo taking place in a few days with the z play
x000x said:
Are you saying the info on the moto site isn't 100% correct? I wanted to get one of these for AT&T but it shows it is only somewhat compatible compared to Tmobile i
also see no checkmark by republic wireless, but I know for a fact RW is selling them on their website, and there is even a RW promo taking place in a few days with the z play
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I have AT&T and am having no issues with signal. I get EDGE, HSPA, HSPA+, and LTE. I actually get better signal on AT&T than I did on verizon on my Moto X Pure (AT&T also costs me almost 3x less as well ). AT&T uses LTE bands 2, 4, 5, 17, and recently (from what ive heard) 12. XT1635-02 retus supports all of those bands (it lists supported bands on the box).
I am considering purchasing the OnePlus 9 or 9 Pro. As a longtime T-Mobile customer I want to know if the International version of the phone is 100% compatible with T-Mobile. I have read on some web sites that there are frequency bands missing on the International version that are supported on the T-Mobile version. I would prefer to buy the International version because updates would come sooner. Does anyone have any information on this? Thanks!
Yes, my last 2 Global OnePlus's works great with tmobile usa including 5g...
I used 3T, 5, 6T, 7Pro and 8Pro international version with TMO sim and no issues. All works great (in my area) including 5G. (not sure about the SA band on OnePlus though, only recently updated my sim card and 5G SA works on my international S21 Ultra).
You'll have to make sure you get a model with the right bands when it comes out.
I always buy from the manufacture. The mobile cell providers always have to add their crummy annoying software tweaks.
I do not case which one as long as custom recovery and custom rom are available
I'm also a long time T-Mobile customer, and I will always buy from the manufacturer going forward. T-Mobile puts too much crapware on the phones. I also like to root and mod my device, and it's a real pain to do that on a T-Mobile device.
Been on TMo for ages. Still will alway sbuy the unlocked international version.
LineageOS exists a version for Samsung Galaxy S10e with Exynos processor, but not for Snapdragon, is there a way to install it on Snapdragon?
Isakman said:
LineageOS exists a version for Samsung Galaxy S10e with Exynos processor, but not for Snapdragon, is there a way to install it on Snapdragon?
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In short, yes.
See here for unofficial Lineage build. Limitation is no IMS (volte) though.
I'm considering buying a G970U (US version) with 8GB RAM and paying for bootloader unlock code, see here.
Perhaps best option is to continue work of OP in that thread and build your own with security updates.
ParkourPaul said:
In short, yes.
See here for unofficial Lineage build. Limitation is no IMS (volte) though.
I'm considering buying a G970U (US version) with 8GB RAM and paying for bootloader unlock code, see here.
Perhaps best option is to continue work of OP in that thread and build your own with security updates.
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Can you tell me what the holdup is with the no IMS / VoLTE development on Snapdragon models, and when this is expected to change if at all, and what forum I need to follow to track this status? I live in the US and I just acquired a S10e G9700U1 thinking I could put LineageOS 18 or 19 on the phone and have VoLTE work. From what I've read, all of the carriers are pretty much mandating VoLTE as a matter of policy for the sake of 4G system management. Ever since the carriers dumped 3G I've been forced to resort to T-Mobile which has an awful footprint in order to keep running LineageOS with my S9 Dual Sim unit as Red Pocket refused to activate Verizon after AT&T shut down 3G and gave me the boot.
andyhoy said:
Can you tell me what the holdup is with the no IMS / VoLTE development on Snapdragon models, and when this is expected to change if at all, and what forum I need to follow to track this status? I live in the US and I just acquired a S10e G9700U1 thinking I could put LineageOS 18 or 19 on the phone and have VoLTE work. From what I've read, all of the carriers are pretty much mandating VoLTE as a matter of policy for the sake of 4G system management. Ever since the carriers dumped 3G I've been forced to resort to T-Mobile which has an awful footprint in order to keep running LineageOS with my S9 Dual Sim unit as Red Pocket refused to activate Verizon after AT&T shut down 3G and gave me the boot.
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I have no idea what the issues are with this though I've seen it with multiple devices so I assume the code stack for IMS services is custom to each device/ROM and come with their own idiosyncrasies/bugs to work out.
Perhaps shout up @klabit87 or other devs in the relevant forums for pointers.
I was extremely lucky and managed to get a free xperia 1 iv as it was refunded/cancelled but still delivered so I'm no longer pursuing a S10e solution.
EDIT: To add to this, the 'holdup' as you put, mostly comes down to the US snapdragon model not having official bootloader unlock support therefor there are very few devs, if any, working on it. The international version uses exynos chipset, the bootloader of which is unlock supported. This is why all the ROMs are exynos only.
ParkourPaul said:
I have no idea what the issues are with this though I've seen it with multiple devices so I assume the code stack for IMS services is custom to each device/ROM and come with their own idiosyncrasies/bugs to work out.
Perhaps shout up @klabit87 or other devs in the relevant forums for pointers.
I was extremely lucky and managed to get a free xperia 1 iv as it was refunded/cancelled but still delivered so I'm no longer pursuing a S10e solution.
EDIT: To add to this, the 'holdup' as you put, mostly comes down to the US snapdragon model not having official bootloader unlock support therefor there are very few devs, if any, working on it. The international version uses exynos chipset, the bootloader of which is unlock supported. This is why all the ROMs are exynos only.
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Thanks for the insight. From what I've read this is probably between Samsung and Qualcom where Qualcom charges Samsung for VoLTE/IMS licensing and subsequently Samsung can't or won't share the content, and it sounds like it's a lot of effort to reverse engineer. I have a Samsung S9 Duos which is international and running LOS 17.1, but I can only set it up with T-Mobile, and possibly not using VoLTE as it only says on my mobile carrier menu LTE and not VoLTE. From what I read Verizon and AT&T are forcing everyone to use VoLTE and won't let phones without it on their networks. So this makes Samsung custom ROMs in the US mostly useless.
I was considering trying to get a Exynos for the S10e as I love the formfactor and the 256GB memory, but if I wanted a Duos Exynos I'd have to pay 4 or 5 times what my US S10e version cost me, and then I'd probably be in the same boat as I was before with my S9. I'm shifting to a Pixel 5a or possibly a Moto G7 power as those are both reported to work on VoLTE, at least that's what I've heard.