Related
I'm sure all of you are getting sick of the flood of questions that come in and the single question and answer thread is just too long to go through to find questions let alone answer them. Hopefully we can get enough people on board to let the moderators know that this is a welcome addition. Seeing as how many phones have highest number of threads in the Q&A section, I think it is a worthy addition.
Problems:
1) Lack of moderation - the volume of posts, especially from new users is higher than the what can reasonably be moderated by the current number of moderators.
2) Relevant threads containing real information are buried by new threads (many which are off topic or not posted in the correct forum)
3) The forum is disorganized, which exacerbates the issue of new users asking duplicate, off topic, poor, misinformed questions.
4) There is an incredible lack of information for new users on usage, which creates a contentious atmosphere between new users and senior members who re-answer the same questions over and over, most of the time about HOW to use the forum and search features.
5) User modifiable resources like the wiki are unknown or obfuscated from new and long time members alike, thus rarely used. (On a side note....we should all be using the wiki to push pertinent information, valueable posts, references and guides up so that noobs (and experienced users also) can find them easier.)
Proposed Solutions:
1) Create additional subforums to help organize posts into relevant categories. (I vote for at least Q&A. MOST popular forums on XDA have this, so there is certainly precedent.)
2) Better sticky posts, with clearer titles. "Hello from your moderator." is not as clear to a new user as "[MANDATORY README]-[FORUM RULES][QUESTIONS][INSTRUCTIONS][If you don't read this you will be flamed, harrassed, possibly shanked in your sleep!]" You are reading this thread because of the title...that or you saw the DVDA postfix...you sick sick bastard...either way I win.
3) More moderators. It is far too hard for Whosdaman to constantly update sticky posts with relevant info. It is up to everyone here to get that info out so we aren't bombarded with questions that have been answered a hundred times. Wiki anyone?
4) We have a great resource in user editable wiki. There is a lot of stuff that can be done BETTER on a wiki than in a 1000 post thread, like reference material, guides, and instructions. We need to make it obvious to ALL users that the wiki exists and get people on board with updating it. Threads are a great way to hash out possible solutions and have a group discussion, but a lot of times what people need is a reference or guide and they shouldn't have to search a 1000 post thread to pull the relevant information.
5) Original posters need to update their OP when new information is revealed or when there is misinformation in a post. Having a post that's title says your flash cell is about to explode only to have to read 600 posts to find out that this information is untrue helps no one. Discussion is GREAT. Misinformation is NOT, and only fuels the confusion and duplicate thread issues.
From The Front Line:
Thanks for the outpouring of support and ideas to help get the ball rolling. Several of our ideas have been recently implemented so I am really hoping for some good news next war update.
20110109: Woot! We now have Q&A. Thanks mods and supporters!
20110109: My social experiment of double entendre "sticky posts" has 2000 views in only a couple of days. I'm not going to call this one confirmed, but if it stopped even 1 bad thread it was worth it.
20110109: We have sticky wiki in all the subforums. Now we need to add content to the wiki before people stop using it.
One Last Thing:
There are very few things we can change with regard to how many new users visit this forum, or the knowledge level of these users. The only thing we CAN do is make what they need to do as obvious as possible to these users, so that we can spend more time coding and writing relevant posts, instead of redirecting people to the search button, or frustration flaming newbies.
+1 agreed. This is ridiculous, it's a clusterf**k in these forums. Q & A is exactly what we need.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I will say yes to the q&a it will cause less clutter.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you are saying isn't wrong but i want one
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
plapczyn said:
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
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Click to collapse
Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
muyoso said:
Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
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Click to collapse
I agree. Or a sticky at the top of ALL of the subforums linking to the wiki. There used to be a STICKYWIKI post, but the title got changed.
I agree the wiki needs serious editing and updating, and we should all be somewhat responsible. Maybe if you flame a newbie, you have to add a paragraph, like a swear jar smoothone, get typing hahaha.. sorry... had to... but I get the feeling you dont mind.
Honestly, I wish sprint would just say screw you, no froyo. This way, people would move on, keep developing, not thinking to wait on that elusive source code... and stop *****ing. The repeat questions, etc werent that bad until that stupid 26th thing brought a bunch of new people at once, so everyone here who was already waiting and annoyed, then get bombarded with new people who heard about XDA from engadget.
BTW... wheres those two who had those super secret sources?????? Kinda quiet....
Bloggers: do not cite an XDA member, or their word they have a good source unless they show you the goods! Somehow, everyone thinks XDA really knows more than the average joe... and dont trust Sprint sales info or personnel!!!!
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
Instead of making a new forum, we need another moderator added to help manage the forum.
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
othan1 said:
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
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Click to collapse
Dumping questions to a Q&A forum creates less clutter for the other forums, thus relevant threads will more likely be in the first two pages.
lazydazed said:
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I love that idea, but there are occasionally relevant posts from new users. I would like to think that not EVERYONE that initially comes to XDA is a moron. But I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
It looks like a lot of people are in favor of it.
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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Click to collapse
That's ok, as long as the questions aren't in the other forums. But I agree, sticky to the wiki should be on all subforums.
Personally I don't care if the Q&A forum is filled with spam repost topics. All I, and others, want is for the it to be quarantined.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
DiGi760 said:
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
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Click to collapse
Exactly my point. Also, as someone mentioned...the cycle of useless questions that cant be prevented will at least be quarantined.
This is for discussion about the recent news that we'll soon be disallowing posts to development forums for new users with 10 posts or less in an attempt to cut down on junk posts.
I believe is a good new way of lowering down the crap-posts
What else a normal member can do to help?
- Report any problematic post by using the "report" button
- Help to improve and maintain a friendly ambiance
Thanks!
>25 would be better.
It sounds very very good. I'd like to suggest a little thing:
is it possible to ban thread with "HELP me please" title?
This type of title is common and doesn't help to focus the problem.
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Daniel, I totally agree with you. These are very valid points. Many people lurk here, mainly because they don't want to look stupid when they ask questions - and then, when they get serious after gaining knowledge here, they try something and they can't post? That isn't right.
The biggest issue here at XDA is what I mentioned above - people are hesitant to post because of the reaction they frequently get - on the flip side, those that do post in the proper areas for questions and answers are lucky if they get answers sometimes, I've had questions go unanswered, when I posted in what I thought was the proper forum (never in the ROM development forums). So what I think you really need to do is to come up with a good support forum for custom ROMs, and have knowledgable people read and help out in there - no matter how 'dumb' the question is in their eyes. From my experience, the only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask. Will that 'cut down' on the 'dumb' questions? Yes, in the ROM development forums it will - only if they're answered elsewhere, however.
You have to remember, Android doesn't come naturally to everyone, some come from other 'worlds' where they know what they're doing, then they're tossed into the thick of it when they try to make the switch (been there, done that). Are there people who really shouldn't be messing with their phones? Of course there are. Is it XDA's job to let them know they're too dumb to be messing? Or is it a better plan to help those people learn? I've always found the latter to be a better plan.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
All I can say is about friken time! I have been discussing this rule with a number of mods for a long long time now and frankly I still think 10 is too low, but its a great start and should cut a lot of the rubbish or at least make some people think twice about where they are posting their questions.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with spock ("Live long and prosper"). For newbies, which I may still be considered, searching the forums is daunting. For example, I have an HD2. I was running Android off of SD for a few months, then just last week took the plunge to NAND. You guys are really making progress on cleaning up the forum structure, because at least now in the HD2 section there are different "development" sections for NAND and SD, etc. BUT, when you are searching for the perfect ROM, it is very confusing with all of the codes in the ROM names. It took me 5 different tries between NAND roms and CWR roms (using clockwork recovery, I'm not THAT DUMB) to finally get one to boot up. I was sweating for a bit!!!
Plus, when you use the search function in the forums, the results very rarely seem to match my search. I understand the experts' frustrations when a newb asks a question or needs help with something that's already been covered, but I have searched numerous times looking for help with bluetooth on a rom, or music skipping, or whatever. Sometimes, I'll take 45 minutes reading through the search results and will realize that none of them are even touching on the subject I was searching for.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for all that the XDA team does. I visit this site daily, and follow the news with RSS on the Google Reader. I love it. But, since you're asking for suggestions, there you are.
;-)
It's a shame that you guys need to enforce this kind of rule but we really do need something to keep this forum in control.
Good job.
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Fair play on attempting something. This is one of a few large community sites I frequent and they all suffer from the problems you describe. Unfortunately no-one has the answer and it is a case of trail and error to find what works.
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
egzthunder1 said:
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post<>opening a new thread.
Let me phrase this:
1. I have been reading the forum for 1-2 weeks.
2. Then I couldn't find the answer and I have opened an account.
3. I want to post a question to the maker of the custom rom.
4. I can't do this!
5. I will post 10 idiotic comments somewhere else to get my right.
Is this what you want? I (you can see all my posts) have never spammed or asked stupid stuff anywhere but a number of posts should be a sign of my maturity? Posting 10 Post gives you little to no sign if the user has and knows how to use search and stay still untill he has read at least 1000 posts!
This is what you should be aiming for.
Just because you can't measure it better doesn't make it valid. It is like giving you no mortgage loan because in your neighbourhood there were 5% not paying it back in time.
egzthunder1 said:
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
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Click to collapse
What does this have to do with my remarks concerning the XDA developer forums?
I do agree with everything you said but "testing" especially means getting feedback from users that can't tell you anymore if "it worked".
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then make inexperienced users stop "opening new threads" instead of "posting answers/making remarks to current threads".
Naren Raj said:
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing, and probably where lots of people are missing the point here. It isn't a matter of stupid posts. It is a matter of stupid posts in the wrong places. No one is telling you that you cannot ask for help. What we are saying is that, if all search efforts fail, please post in the right place....
seroaddict said:
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...
My advice to all ROM devs would be to make their own thread in Q&A or general, called [SUPPORT] ROM NAME HERE Support Thread - Latest Version 1.2.3
In there, all users could post, regardless of number of posts. The first post would link to the main ROM, and perhaps contain a FAQ.
In the ROM release in development, have a large link to the Q&A thread at the start and end of the post. That way, those reporting bugs and helping with patches/fixes can post in the development thread, and those needing help can post in the Q&A thread.
Just encourage devs to do something like this
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
I mean something has to be done. But being new to all this rooting, S-OFF etc kind of thing I do consider myself at least somewhat of a greenhorn . I do however try to keep my questions relevant to the topic and try finding the proper topic before placing a question.
But I am also struggling with actually get a proper answer, or an answer at all to some of my questions, making it hard for a new guy (or girl) to transend from being a greenie to actually become more and more knowledgeable over time. I mean if people dont share their knowledge and or their solutions then how are we all to benifit from them.
I do however admit that some form of moderation needs to find place, considering that some of the guides are actually more or less straight forward and quite frankly. If people can't follow a single straight forward guide then perhaps rooting, modding etc is not for them
thefinancemaster said:
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears to the left of the Quote button.
But IIRC it appears only after 5 posts, as we would have issues with new accounts being made solely to thank their "owner".
You're not far off the thanks button appearing.
I would screenie it, but there's little point. It's to the left of "Edit" for me ("Quote" for you I think as you won't see edit buttons everywhere)
This is your site and your rules. The only question is, that a person like me who has been a member for a short time, but been runing modded rom's for about 5 months (thanks to this site) can't post a question if I did have one. This is my second post, and the first one was to answer a question, I have found everything I needed and every question I had answered by way of reading posts. But if I do have a question I can't ask it because I have not posted alot of BS to get my post count up.
1. Any rom posted must be listed in a Roms sticky for each device.
2. Any kernel used or posted must be posted also in a Kernel sticky for each device.
3. Any updates to either must be updated in said sticky.
4. Sticky posts should be maintained to be current, not up to date as of a year ago. Look at Desire HD sticky, it suggests to go to the complete desire hd info thread, and it is current as of last May.
5. MD5 or other checksums for all!
It is hard to find the CURRENT version of a kernel, or radio because there is no kernel section, and the radio/ril threads do not have all the radios/ril in the OP. Yes I search, yes I read, in fact I read many threads every day, but it is difficult to figure out where the right or newest version is if they aren't all together. It has become a big mishmosh of information. The mods try to keep posts relevant to thread, but they need to help implement a better structure for the actual files.
This isn't a bash against mods, so calm down, just a suggestion to improve the site for everyone and reduce the number of garbage posts that exist because of disorganization.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
You are right
your right
nice thinking man
There is a general naming convention used in most forums. If something is out of date or in need of attention in your device specific forum, please contact your FSM.
Absolutely right bro. Thanks for jotting it down.
Wouldn't it be easier to have subforums for kernels, roms, mods etc?
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
If only xda actually used ur ideas than this would be an even more beast app
Sent from my magic piece of metal using even more magic
It's really about consistency and an easy way to find the information you're look for. I think a WIKI along with editable lists would be much more maintainable than a single thread to represent very different things. And then have discussions go on in the background.
Having discussions over new roms and [ROM], [KERNEL], [HBOOT] and [etc] releases in the same subforum leads to a confusing experience. Not to mention many different subforums per device, and seeing users posting questions to not so relevant forums (or not having permission to post to the right forum). The user experience is quite aggravating, actually...
But I don't think Forums are an easy way to handle discussions, anyhow. Once you get to more than a few pages in a thread, it becomes hard to track all the information that's going on, even though it's all available publicly.
It would be nice if posts that were 'thanked' were shown with higher priority vs. the ones that weren't. Or maybe something a la reddit with its upvotes (but that has its own set of problems too).
shurane said:
It's really about consistency and an easy way to find the information you're look for. I think a WIKI along with editable lists would be much more maintainable than a single thread to represent very different things. And then have discussions go on in the background.
Having discussions over new roms and [ROM], [KERNEL], [HBOOT] and [etc] releases in the same subforum leads to a confusing experience. Not to mention many different subforums per device, and seeing users posting questions to not so relevant forums (or not having permission to post to the right forum). The user experience is quite aggravating, actually...
But I don't think Forums are an easy way to handle discussions, anyhow. Once you get to more than a few pages in a thread, it becomes hard to track all the information that's going on, even though it's all available publicly.
It would be nice if posts that were 'thanked' were shown with higher priority vs. the ones that weren't. Or maybe something a la reddit with its upvotes (but that has its own set of problems too).
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The latter system of thanked posts is in testing in the galaxy nexus forums right now
pulser_g2 said:
The latter system of thanked posts is in testing in the galaxy nexus forums right now
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What about having subforums for kernels roms(like aosp/sense) etc?
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
idea
I think we need a separte part of forum for our samsung galaxy s plus 9001 no insead of samsing galaxy s 9000
so this is my idea LOL
right on point. i think some re-structuring would help to make things better! Thanked!
I am all for devs getting more standards imposed on how they post but shouldnt all posters have more standards.Recently when mods tried to impose standards on the general posting population they didnt think they needed to follow any rules.
Already answered
edudu1414 said:
I think we need a separte part of forum for our samsung galaxy s plus 9001 no insead of samsing galaxy s 9000
so this is my idea LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this one but this has been already answered by one of the modes - no green light from the XDA mgmnt for the sep. section for i9001.
We need a site mirrored on this site except with no comments, just the basic skeleton. Newbies can start there, answer and ask any questions and developers can choose to respond to stupid questions if they wish. This site will be a time trial site where spammers and the developmentally challenged can be routed out early on. Existing members will fear being sent to the kinder garden site and so will also follow the rules etc.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
A lot of great ideas that would help people actually find what they are looking for before they post the dame question that has been answered. If those q&a could just be moved up to the OP or to an asked and answered OP for the Rom......
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA
I wish we could really +1 posts, and also, when someone quotes our message in a reply, that the quoted poster can be notified. Many times I'm looking for an answer that may come days later, but I'll never know if there are hundreds of messages a day.
+1 and -1 with sortatiton option would be the best thing. That would help to find most useful info in threads really quick.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda premium
What about linking a thread by category or handset vendor? For example, thread "Xperia Mini Pro active development" will be placed in "android development" category and "Sony Xperia" category. Both are the same thread. It's not a clone thread, but lonking thread, so one thread is original and another thread is a linked thread points to original thread (just like 'ln -s' in linux). So everyone can browse it from any category they used to be.
Sent from my SK17i using xda premium
After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.
XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...
Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate
garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome
So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.
Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:
What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98
@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread
Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.
Hi!
Am I the only one finding these Forums are extremely problematic to navigate?
I cannot easily find the right place to post etc. The whole thing seems random, counterintuitive or broken! Am I the only one? Do I miss something?
I cannot find really an Android OS subforum, a Mobile Accessories forum, etc.
Thanks!
Meh, no big issues. Place a bookmark...
Google search: *search item", XDA
XDA Sub Forums | XDA Developers
Founded in 2002, XDA is the world’s largest smartphone and electronics community. Looking for the latest tech news and reviews? Want to do more with your Android phone, Windows PC, iPhone, iPad, or MacBook? Look no further than XDA.
www.xda-developers.com
Sorry doesn't help
I am posting a lot of general questions not for a particular manufacturer or model.
The General-type of subforums are extremely hard to navigate to. How can I reach these? Whenever I try to reach the forums, it shows specific Manufacturers.
mobilos said:
Whenever I try to reach the forums, it shows specific Manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is very biased towards thinking everything is a manufacturer.
If I search for "EDL" the first 10 results are Motorola Edge, Samsung Edge and "Realme GT Master Edition"???
aster221 said:
Frustrated with forum navigation? Many users are finding the forums difficult to navigate with a lack of clear organization and subforums. Let's hope the issue gets resolved soon. #ForumNavigation #UserExperience"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You haven't even been here that long... warning learning curve ahead. You get to use your brain.
I don't have much trouble. I can find what I want easily most times. Most here understand the system and its limitations.
Most forums aren't any easier... the simplest solution other then already mentioned here is to start your own forum. That way it will be perfect.
blackhawk said:
I don't have much trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get serious. The taxonomy here is completely opaque.
The (full website) "Topics" sidebar is completely useless.
The big banner for "XDA Computing" is misleading/distracting (even if they are trying to promote it).
The fact that newbs are always posting stuff in the wrong place is surely a reason to reconsider some of this.
The fact that this thread is in "Forums -> XDA Computing -> Build-a-PC -> Battlestations" is another.
All of these complaints and questions belong in this thread.
Renate said:
Get serious. The taxonomy here is completely opaque.
The (full website) "Topics" sidebar is completely useless.
The big banner for "XDA Computing" is misleading/distracting (even if they are trying to promote it).
The fact that newbs are always posting stuff in the wrong place is surely a reason to reconsider some of this.
The fact that this thread is in "Forums -> XDA Computing -> Build-a-PC -> Battlestations" is another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not terrible... you don't know what's terrible.
I have dyslexia and play with this site easy
V0latyle said:
All of these complaints and questions belong in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thread has been moved to
About xda-developers.com
Anything to do more with the site than with the phones. Feature requests, announcements, praise, moaning, etc. :)
forum.xda-developers.com
mobilos said:
I cannot find really an Android OS subforum,
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's by design.
svetius said:
Honestly, I don't like the idea of giving General Development much higher visibility...I much rather people use the search, and go into a specific section for the sake of organization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android Development and Hacking
forum.xda-developers.com
Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting
This forum is for all of your questions about Android Development and Hacking. If you need help troubleshooting a problem, please be as specific as possible by describing your software configuration, including the ROM, kernel, and any modifications you've done.
forum.xda-developers.com
Edited
Several threads like this
Confused thread selections
Guys, for more than ten years you couldn't make user friendly thread selection! for example I need General Development category, and I go from main page to General Discussion view all and I get this page...
forum.xda-developers.com
Am I missing something or has XDA place SEVERE restrictions on what devices
It's been a spell since I've last logged into XDA Developers... something I used to do often in the days of hacking my Android phones.... something I did a lot of from early days through about 2017.... So.... I've been turned on to Ulefone phones...
forum.xda-developers.com
and discussions in
[CLOSED] Welcome to XDA 2021!
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How can we make the XDA forums better?
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[CLOSED] XenForo 2.2 Upgrade! Post Bugs, Issues and Comments Here
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[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA
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