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Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
Wolfas said:
Hello,
one question bothers me since the first time I have heard about WP7. Why Microsoft have decided to create a whole new OS without thinking of OS that would ne NT-based so any program made for normal PC would run on our phones. Just imagine, how many developers could easily port their programs to new OS, just changin the screen size, leaving all core components just the same... All classic PC games, like Blood, Duke Nukem workin flawlesly on a phone without the need of any port. I believe, that it is the only real way to compete with Android and Iphone OS. What do you think?
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if the app was created in siverlight/c# which alot of newer apps are then it can be ported to wp7.. For sometime now microsoft has been pushing their silverlight for devolpers to use so if the games you mentioned is bult in silverlight there should be no problem...
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
emuneee said:
NT on a mobile phone would be a usability nightmare...look how far windows mobile got with the masses. Microsoft is not catering towards the hackers, but the masses.
And to be honest, I would not touch any mobile device running NT...LOL.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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me eather!!! i am so done with wm 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 and its many problems having to flashing rom after rom, restarting the device cause it has no memory left, this list goes on... wp7 is like a breth of fresh air...
Why so negative? WM always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And I wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new OS, as NT-based Windows OS platform is the most popular in PC world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
wolfas said:
why so negative? Wm always had problems, but the level of freedom and customization made me love this platform more and more. And i wouldn't be so sure about unpopularity of this kind of new os, as nt-based windows os platform is the most popular in pc world, stable and nice-looking enough, so why it couldn't be that popular in mobile phones, especially with wide variety of programs already designed for this platform, only waiting for small fixes of resolution? Those games are from dos era, with no good port on any mobile platform...
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dont get me wrong i not trying to say 6.5 is not for some people just not for me... I think the fact that smartphones moved to a more touch enviroment it seems that the old wm is not as finger friendly and made more for the use of an stylist, to me this type of os seems to not work well on mobile devices for long peorids without a reboot maybe its the way its design or maybe it just have too many things of the desktop enviroment not sure but it gets to be a problem for me, others my not mind. As far as customizing goes well guess you cant have everything.. i personaly would prefer a more stable os than customization, and i am sure additional pc like options will come as well as more customization in the future..
I think the main reason why NT would not make a good mobile OS is simply because it was never designed or meant to run on a mobile device. Your phone is not a computer, so your phone needs an operating environment to suit it's purpose.
The "phone as a computer" approach has been tried by Microsoft, it's called Windows Mobile. While I love Windows Mobile, I have to say, having "Windows NT" on a phone just doesn't make sense.
While it would be cool to play Duke Nukem on your Windows NT mobile device, at the end of the day, you are going to put down your Windows NT phone and just sit at your computer and play Duke Nukem on that. It's just a better overall experience, and Windows NT was designed for that sit-down, productive, huge screen experience. So it wouldn't make sense to invest in a platform that no one would use at the end of the day because their desktop computer does it better.
What you have to do is create an entirely unique and different experience designed for the phone and "on-the-go" life, to complement the Windows NT desktop experience. That is after all, what your phone is for. That's what Windows Phone 7 is.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Windows Phone 7.... phone.... XD
Well, I guess you are right, but I will try once more to support my idea, if you don't mind. I still see some reasons why NT- based mobile OS would be a good idea:
1. There are plenty of popular netbooks, tablet PC's and other relative small devices with full XP, Vista or Win7 OS. All of them are made for on the go experience and still having NT OS. Not even talking about miniature UMPC's. We also often leave these devices unused when we turn on our normal PC's at home, but doesn't prevent them from having huge popularity.
2. Of cource, I do not want to suggest porting normal WinXP to mobile phones (but win98 on my touch pro didn't look half that bad ), but rather something with an UI suited for small screens, but still capable to run any application made for normal Windows.
3. I also think about the interest of developers to this kind of OS. Theorically, there would be no need to learn OS-specific programming, just the things used on any NT OS. Most of the developers who makes programs for PC would be able to make a version for this OS just by changing the resolution, leaving engine just the same.
Please, say your opinion about these things I've pointed out
1. Netbooks and tablets still operate outside of the smartphone arena of capabilities and requirements for most users. There is a reason why there isn't a successful phone running Windows XP. You can write the drivers and software for phone functionality, but at the end of the day NT was not produced with phones in mind.
2. Applications written for desktops are written for desktop processors and memory capacities. Its not a simple change of just resolutions. What if an app request memory that doesn't exist on the mobile device? Chances are the mobile device can't even address that amount of memory. So you design a mobile focused NT kernel...well now all apps can't run on both platforms..so what's the point.
3. Yes you do, because all the capabilities available on a desktop aren't available on a smartphone. Developers still have to keep that in mind when their app is in development.
I sit here looking at my Windows XP work workstation and I would kill myself if I had to use this on a phone. Windows Mobile was hard enough.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I forget the name but there was a secret (ish) project inside Microsoft to make the NT kernel more portable and sorta combine it with the CE kernel. They were basically building off the MinWin work.
But remember, native code still wouldn't be cross platform. x86 and ARM are not binary compatible. Just look at "OSX" on Mac desktops and "OSX" as the base of "iOS". Nothing crosses back and forth.
The NT kernel doesn't scale down that well yet. The kernel land is still full of bidirectional vertical dependencies. The current lowest profile incarnation called MinWin needs like 40MB RAM to boot to a text console and offer next to no APIs and is still shock full of missing dependencies (apparently boot loader magic makes it not break on boot).
Once they're really done despaghettifying, you might see it on mobile devices. But that'll still take a while, because right now, slimming down involves tons of aliasing dependencies to nothing.
Absolutely no reason why they could not run NT on a smart phone but why would they? They already have Windows CE (aka pocket PC) and if MS had been serious about Pocket PC IMHO they would be in a much better market position now.
One of the biggest messups with Pocket PC is the inconsistancy of the user interface and MS failed to revamp the 6.5 completely for touch.... They have a lot of good things going with WM 6.5 but it was an incomplete effort and it shows.
well, I see you are right... That NT is much more complex monster than I thought, thanks for clearing that out Yesterday, I found information about device called xpPhone, I wonder what would you say about it ? http://www.xpphone.com/en/product/specification.html
Hi guys,
Over the years as a Windows mobile fan, i have acumalated quite a large amound of Windows Mobile 6.1 / 6.5 Apps / games etc.. I know they have almost always worked on both 6.1 and 6.5 but will this be the case for Windows Mobile 7 ?
Are my collection of apps etc.. any good ?
Thanks
WM 6 or older apps won't work on Windows Phone 7. There is no backwards compatibility.
Consider WP7 not as "Windows Mobile 7", next generation of WM, but something completely new.
mktos said:
WM 6 or older apps won't work on Windows Phone 7. There is no backwards compatibility.
Consider WP7 not as "Windows Mobile 7", next generation of WM, but something completely new.
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Exactly. It's not Windows Mobile 7 but Windows Phone 7.
So this would mean everything new from scratch, but i'm sure new apps and stuff should start coming out for it considerably quick right?
I'm a bit of a app/game freak love to customise my gadgets, loved the CHT UI for my HD2 so would love it if something like that was available for Windows Phone 7.
I want to but the HD7, but at really attached to my beloved HD2 and all the apps and custom stuff i have done to it, i'm sure you know what i mean and how i feel.
Thanks for the replies very much appreciated.
There will be lots of apps and especially games for WP7.
However, there will not be any sort of home screen customization/hacking. Maybe eventually but it will only come in the way of hacked firmware and will not be officially supported (this is no different than CHT though).
Just a discussion came up and made me wonder if this is even possable. This is the place to ask, so here we go.
All WP7 models seem to run at 1ghz or higher, thinking the concept that WM 6.5 runs pretty well on hardware that runs at 400-528mhz range. Would it be possable to have a emulator that runs on the platform so you can run 6.1/6.5 on a WP7 phone ? This would allow you to be able to run some older apps with still having WP7.
I would not expect intense games (maybe a card game ok) to run at full speed or anything but, things like Remote desktop and other base apps might be ok with this.
This type of thing would run on any phone (with 1ghz+ hardware) just depending on if all the hardware is supported.
Or I guess there might be a way to "shut down" 7 and open 6.5 kind of how Android runs on the TP2.
The emulator idea came up because it might be able to run on any model with minor updates vs. a boot up just for one phone.
Just some ideas...even if it is possable.
Thanks for reading and dreaming (well I am still waiting for a Verizon WP7 phone)
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
No sorry, the emulator runs on the x86 architecture, not on ARM.
Dave
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Maybe I'm misreading the original question, but it sounds like he is asking if it were possible to have an app that would run old Windows Mobile apps, kind of like Classic on WebOS.
well at present we (3rd party) developers wouldn't be able to make something like this as all the APIs don't actually exist. someone with knowledge of the whole code base of windows phone 7 could probably do it but i doubt we'll see it happen. if there are programs you need on windows phone 7, it is definitely faster to just have it redone. it's really only the UI that needs redoing, if it was written in VB or C#, a lot of the code will still work.
On my blog, I recently wrote an article about some of the reasons why Windows Mobile 6.5 is still useful even with Windows Phone 7(.5) out. So with all of the news about Mango coming soon, do you think that Windows Phone 7(.x) has enough features to go ahead and completely replace Windows Mobile 6.5 or is there a reason why you still use Windows Mobile 6.5? For me (even though I do use Windows Phone 7.x), it's games and customization.
link to blog post: http://catholictechgeek.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-i-still-have-windows-phone-65-even.html
Update: I just got a part 2 of my article online and here's the link: http://catholictechgeek.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-i-still-have-windows-phone-65-even_07.html. Feel free to check out some of the other articles I have on the site as well. If you want, you can follow me on twitter too (link to my profile is @rctechgeek).
Update (6-25-2012): After a long while, I have finally updated my article with part 3, which includes the Windows Phone 7.5 "Mango" update (with a look at what has changed and what hasn't). Here is the link to part 3: http://bit.ly/LLsS7k
Update (6-28-2012): Part 4 is now up, continuing from where part 3 left off, for your reading pleasure. The link to part 4 is: http://bit.ly/NRzQdh
Yes, and yes. Im satisfied when Mango comes, but im not unhappy now ether. I recently sold my HD2 as my goodbye to WM. Keept my BA and some other old WM devices out of nostalgia, but there in there boxes now.
ditched my winmo as soon as windows phone was released and I didn't look back
Love WP7 as an OS, miss WM for it's eye candy/customizable.
One thing I don't like about WP7 is the Metro UI. While it is clean & what ever, it's missing the eye candy & ability to customize that WM or Android has. I understand a lot of people like it, but keep in mind that is an opinion. Not a fact & in my opinion, it's kind of dull looking.
All that said, I'll never look back at WM or Android. I just love how smooth WP7 is & the games/apps.
Yes n Yes. What I am missing most is garmin GPS (I live in indonesia and garmin is the only good gps with mapping system and POI here) and ability to search contact just like pc outlook, which will be sorted next update I believe
When I migrated from WM6 to WP7, I kept my old phone charged and ready for the first few weeks, because I wasn't sure I would be able to get by without some of the features it offered. Truth be told, it's now been sitting (uncharged) in a drawer for the past 5 months, and it will soon be sold. WM has nothing on WP7 in my book.
If, for some reason, it became necessary for me to leave WP7, I still wouldn't go back to WM, I'd go with one of the other modern smartphone OSes.
Yes...and hell yes!
Since the first day I used wp7 on my old hd2 I loved it....but then Android pulled me back in cuz hd2 didn't run it perfectly. And Android since then became annoying to me. iPhone was my first smartphone, and I found my self loading my screen with colorful icons I never touched. Android is good.....BUT even with a bloody dualcore it will lag and can't touch any wp7 device in scrolling. Wp7 is only getting better, and I can't imagine how wp8 will be plus windows 8 tabs.....God bless Microsoft!
Edit: I forgeot WM lol....it was cool for the few weeks i used it.
I have been a WM user for years... and I was excited when WP7 came out. I bought the surround Nov. 18th and it has been my primary phone. I also have some android devices I use for development and if it wasn't for the Zune media player and Zune Pass, I would be using android every day. I sure hope that Mango brings everything we as a group have been waiting for... Like multitasking and video MMS and......
Otherwise I am going to get an android phone for my daily driver and wait until WP7 matures some more.
But man do I love the Zune player and pass!
Though I love WP7 there are things that tick me off. Mango will correct them of course I just wish that MS gets to it fast and we do not see the cluster bang that we saw with NoDo. the problem really is twofold. MS really needs to push this OS and educate people on it. in metro Boston there is nothing on WP7 yet tons of stuff we see for android and ios. Secondly go into say a T-MO store and ask to see a wp7 device and get told why would you want that? we have this nice new samsung android here blah blah... MS needs to really step it up and get adverts out there that shows the OS and what it can do..instead of showing a bunch of peeps falling down or dropping devices in urinals’
I just converted from Android and I will not look back I love wm phone better than the other os out there I just wish they had two apps my bank chase and navigon or Tom Tom come on get onto this os it is great .
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
There are some things I can't do, or things I can't run on WP7 that I was able to run on 6.5... But WP7, pre-nodo and now with nodo was slick enough for me to make the full change and simply adapt to it... I found it that good...
Mango will simply make it much much better...
The apps I miss off ole 6.5 are TomTom and Garmin... But Turn-By-Turn is filling the gap for now...
I first tried WP7 on my HD2 and the HD2 came alive and ran quick like it always could... 6.5 hobbled it...
The simple things done on the phone each day, like checking messages and emails and such is much quicker on WP7... Zip in, do what ya gotta do, zip out... Its the OS for the serious user...
Users who want a lot of fart apps stick with haemorrhoid and igroan!
Hi everyone. I have another article up with some more reasons that I keep a Windows Mobile 6.5 device handy. Most of them have to do with bluetooth, but not all.
link: http://catholictechgeek.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-i-still-have-windows-phone-65-even_07.html
For those of us who like games, you have to admit that Microsoft would make things a lot better if they made it easier to get console emulators on Windows Phone 7, right (you can run emulators under Windows Mobile 6.5)?
Steven855 said:
For those of us who like games, you have to admit that Microsoft would make things a lot better if they made it easier to get console emulators on Windows Phone 7, right (you can run emulators under Windows Mobile 6.5)?
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er...no...
I'm curious to know how many people actually used contact transfer via bluetooth in Windows Mobile 6.5. It seems to me that was a handy feature.
Steven855 said:
I'm curious to know how many people actually used contact transfer via bluetooth in Windows Mobile 6.5. It seems to me that was a handy feature.
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I didn't I just sent my contacts to my SIM card and copied them that way. How ever I will not be giving up my 6.5 HTC TP2. Not until MS installs a "windows" explorer allowing me to truly use my device as I see fit.
As for the apps I know people are working very hard on them and they are coming, no different than WinMo 5-6.5 when it first came out. In three years time I'm sure there will be tons of stuff we have created.
I had the touch pro, touch pro 2, and imagio so i was pretty seasoned in windows mobile. I just recently got the HTC Trophy and im satisfied with WP7. No more lag, a browser thats dependable and can play most videos while browsing and not worrying about the videos making the browser close in the background because of too much memory being used, being able to open text messages without lags and freezes and reply instantly, much better keyboard and music player
theres only a few things that somewhat piss me off tho, no file explorer, no custom ringtones (coming in mango), no usb mass storage mode, no wifi tethering at the moment, and on winmo i use to download albums single mp3's through the web browser and i was able to add those files to my library on the go without being tied down to using a computer and syncing.
but other than those gripes i love wp7 and realize its still within its first year and i dont expect it to have everything right off the bat but i love the os and willing to wait things out its going to be exciting watching this platform grow.
WP7 is ok, I like its simplicity, but I really miss the openness of WinMo.
I can't stand the absence of USB mass storage, I can't stand to be bound to Zune, I can't stand to be bound to my PC, I cannot stand the absence of file management with file explorer...
I cannot stand not to able to play quickly my DivX|AVI movie files, after a simple drag & drop.
I cannot stand the lack of decent storage (no swappable SD card, no slot for SD card, pathetic 8GB only devices...)
In September I will probably move to a high end Android device.
All my friends that used to have WinMo have now moved to Android and they all so satisfied
I realize I cannot stand locked down OS like iPhone and WP7
I thought Mango would bring some flexibility and openess... But it didn't
WM is nothing in front of WP.. if someone has both WM and WP and chooses to use WM instead of WP, he/she obviously has some kind of problem in his life..
Purple11 said:
WM is nothing in front of WP.. if someone has both WM and WP and chooses to use WM instead of WP, he/she obviously has some kind of problem in his life..
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Or maybe, more reasonably, he just needs a flexible and open OS, without missing features.
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
Since ver 7, the os is no longer called windows mobile; its now called windows phone. but to answer your question, no you can't run desktop applications on windows phone (or windows mobile for that matter) and this is unlikely to change.
That said I'm sure you can find another application to achieve whatever it is that you're after on the marketplace...
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
Well for a lot of people smartphones or tablets can replace computers, most people aren't stockbrokers!
The latest version of Windows Phone is 7.5 Mango, which is currently at RTM stage - i.e. released to OEMs pending approval for new devices and upgrades to existing devices.
The Windows Phone Marketplace can only be accessed via the phone or via the Zune desktop software. The Zune software comes highly recommended from me, it's a very, very good media management software and I can't live without the wireless sync function anymore!
You can browse the marketplace through Zune without owning a Windows Phone device.
Perhaps you could let the community know what it is exactly that you need to do and someone might be able to suggest something?
EDIT: As you're new to smartphones, from a usability perspective Windows Phone 7 would be an excellent choice for you - it is simply brilliant to use, the interface is understated and elegant and the lack of pointless graphics makes it both simple and quick. Microsoft have clearly put massive effort into making Windows Phone highly usable and have surpassed pretty much all expectations, especially with the 7.5 update, which brings in a huge amount of functionality. A lot of people try and put Windows Phone down having never used it, because it's one of those things that needs you to spend 10 minutes with it to understand - but once you've spent 9 minutes with it, everything else just seems ridiculously complicated.
olivespin said:
:-( my all needs are getting completed with an smartphone, but i guess eventually i will have to buy a laptop as well... just to run my stockmarket software.... Damn and they are telling smartphones (Like SGS2 etc.) are quickly replacing laptops...
PS: Wht is the latest ver. of windows phone called and, what is the windows phone marketplace url (Kind of new to smartphones)
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Silverlight in Windows
Hi
Silverlight apps are currently available in Windows and I think that the concept being put out there at the moment is that Windows 8 will run the same apps as Windows Mobile 8.
Nobody knows if this will become a reality or not.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
olivespin said:
I was wondering, tht when buying a new smartphone if I go with windows based OS on mobile, will I be able to run any software tht can run on windows based desktop computer? If not, such functionality is expected to come with forthcoming Windows 8 mobile?
PS: I wana run my live stock market terminal on mobile phone.
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The best thing for you to do would be to find a mobile version of the software you are trying to run. Then get the device that runs that particular software.
The closest you'll come to running your "exact" software on a mobile device is to get a Windows based tablet or laptop. But to run your stock software on a smartphone, you will need the "mobile" version of that software, if it exists.
Also, check to see if your stock-terminal application is web-based. If it is, you may be able to access what you need with ANY smartphone through the smartphone's web browser. That means your "stock terminal" would work on Windows Phone, iPhone, Android, etc.