Updates when WP8 ships - Windows Phone 7 General

Updates when WP8 ships - Windows Phone 7 General

Apologies if this has been covered to death, I don't recall reading it anywhere though....
With rumors of W8/WP8 shipping some time next year, have MS announced the plans to upgrade WP7 devices?
Thing is I'm due an upgrade around March 2012. If i was to say go for the equivalent of whatever the Lumia 900 ends up being, is this likely to get the upgrade to WP8 when it's launched or WP7 generation devices in general.
In an akward position where I don't want to keep my Omnia 7 any longer than I have to when i'm in a position to upgrade....
Thanks,

Like you i am currently running a first generation WP7 handset (HTC HD7) albeit not locked into a contract. With numerous second generation handsets coming out I still do not feel the urge in upgrading nor do I feel the urge in moving to another OS.
Currently it is rumored that WP7 Tango, an interim release between WP7 Apollo which has been touted as potentially being WP8 has been said to be released half way through 2012 and the end of 2012 respectively. Although this should be taken with a grain of salt.
Tango is said to be a small update which is to be focused on cheaper handsets although it would appear it is to support dual core and a higher screen resolution and a few more features, as I don’t think they could wait till Apollo to release these features. Some people have said Apollo will be windows phone 8 and i would not be surprised if this is true as it would be imperfect timing with windows 8 and would secure continuity between their offerings. Microsoft has put a massive emphasizes on minimum specification in WP7 and the future windows 8, they have even stated that one of their parameters for windows 8 was to have equal or smaller system requirements then Windows 7. I assume this kind of thinking and mentality was translated to Windows Phone.
Whilst second generation phones will weather the test of time better than a first generation phone I highly doubt Microsoft will leave first generation and second generation in the dark as alienating the early adopters would perhaps be the worst strategy they could do. Although the new phones are tempting I think I can survive with my HD7 for the time being although something like a HDC radar would be a good intermediate phone between the second Gen and third Gen device as it is priced well.

I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.

Yeh... I'd assumed we would definintely get Tango as it's touted as an intermediate update before WP8/Apollo.
I'd happily hang on but it would mean i'd have had the Omnia for 2 years, and i've had enough problems with it already. Craving something by Nokia....

PG2G said:
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
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Two years seems like a reasonable timeframe, but I seriously doubt that they will support any device longer than that. Just think about the hardware changes that have either been added or are on the roadmap that don't exist on 1st gen phones: gyroscopes, FFCs, NFC. The way phone technology is evolving, anything over two years old is a dinosaur (and in most cases, worn out), and I really don't see any manufacturer willingly offering to support such devices.

Buy a phone without a contract ?

sin_nombre said:
the requirements for windows 8 on PCs are the same as they have been for vista and how old are those computers? much more than 2 years. they are also still making builds of WM6.x (all the way into the 29xxx build series) but they just arent currently being released on any devices
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Never mind. I don't respond to eric.

Related

Will WP7 devices today lose features when upgraded to WP8? I'm worried.

So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?

Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.

vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
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WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.

I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.

http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.

vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
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I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap

because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.

bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
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Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
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At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.

I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?

ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
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No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...

The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
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Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.

bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
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you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.

ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
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We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.

At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.

bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
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Understood, good info here- thanked

I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.

XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.

A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897

[Q] Is the Lumia 900 able to upgrade to the Windows Phone 8 OS?

Chances are this info isn't on the first few pages of a search site, besides speculation. But I was hoping a developer or other person in position to, could clarify with potential buyers.
I know it is only logical that it should be able to upgrade but there is a bit of doubt spreading on the web. Logical meaning ~5-8 months till WP8.
If someone finds out please let us know here. I really want a Lumia 900, but I'm not able to purchase one without knowing if OS upgrades will continue for it.

Nothing has been stated and most likely won't be stated until after the release of those handsets.
I would venture a guess that it will support wp8 but may not include some of hardware supported by the new OS, NFC etc unless they hid it in there already. I guess we'll have to wait for a tear down.

Seed 2.0 said:
Chances are this info isn't on the first few pages of a search site, besides speculation. But I was hoping a developer or other person in position to, could clarify with potential buyers.
I know it is only logical that it should be able to upgrade but there is a bit of doubt spreading on the web. Logical meaning ~5-8 months till WP8.
If someone finds out please let us know here. I really want a Lumia 900, but I'm not able to purchase one without knowing if OS upgrades will continue for it.
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If there was a phone thats a shoe in for WP8, its the Lumia 900. I'd throw in the Titan II also, and any other 'Flagship' grade release from here on out. I suspect the Focus line and the lower end Nokia's will not be upgraded.
Bottom line, the WP8 spec gives us a view into a bigger and much improved hardware arena. I would think to get the best impact of WP8, you would buy a WP8 device.
I personally believe, you will see an interim release...similar to Tango/Mango, that will bring these WP7.5 devices into WP8. Tango as you may already know, is the Windows Phone 7.5 release for the lower end WP devices. And, the Mango update did not bring all WP7 devices up to Mango 100%. Current WP7.5 devices, including the 900 and the Titan II, simply will not have all the hardware the WP8 devices will. A 100% upgrade may not be possible.
Never the less, I'm buying the 900 in 13 days. I'll probably wait for the flagship NOkia WP8 release, and buy that too....most likely, around this time next year.

alodar1 said:
If there was a phone thats a shoe in for WP8, its the Lumia 900. I'd throw in the Titan II also, and any other 'Flagship' grade release from here on out. I suspect the Focus line and the lower end Nokia's will not be upgraded.
Bottom line, the WP8 spec gives us a view into a bigger and much improved hardware arena. I would think to get the best impact of WP8, you would buy a WP8 device.
I personally believe, you will see an interim release...similar to Tango/Mango, that will bring these WP7.5 devices into WP8. Tango as you may already know, is the Windows Phone 7.5 release for the lower end WP devices. And, the Mango update did not bring all WP7 devices up to Mango 100%. Current WP7.5 devices, including the 900 and the Titan II, simply will not have all the hardware the WP8 devices will. A 100% upgrade may not be possible.
Never the less, I'm buying the 900 in 13 days. I'll probably wait for the flagship NOkia WP8 release, and buy that too....most likely, around this time next year.
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The FKA "Tango" update or as it's now called WP 7.5 CR3 (that's commercial refresh 3) is a refresh that includes support for low memory devices as well as MMS improvements and more language support.
There are no official details about it, but it's not aimed only at lower end devices and AT&T even mentioned they're thinking about releasing it for existing devices.
If you look at the competition, the iphones that are two generations old still get updates but not all features are included. one generation old usually get all new features, if the hardware supports it (siri was an exception and had nothing to do with the hardware in older iphones)
Even with android, devices were updated at least once to a newer release.
I can't see Microsoft not updating devices released in 2012 to WP8

EShy said:
The FKA "Tango" update or as it's now called WP 7.5 CR3 (that's commercial refresh 3) is a refresh that includes support for low memory devices as well as MMS improvements and more language support.
There are no official details about it, but it's not aimed only at lower end devices and AT&T even mentioned they're thinking about releasing it for existing devices.
If you look at the competition, the iphones that are two generations old still get updates but not all features are included. one generation old usually get all new features, if the hardware supports it (siri was an exception and had nothing to do with the hardware in older iphones)
Even with android, devices were updated at least once to a newer release.
I can't see Microsoft not updating devices released in 2012 to WP8
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makes sense

cx1 said:
Nothing has been stated and most likely won't be stated until after the release of those handsets.
I would venture a guess that it will support wp8 but may not include some of hardware supported by the new OS, NFC etc unless they hid it in there already. I guess we'll have to wait for a tear down.
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Actually if you go to Nokia connect website. Nokia says the lumia will receive all major updates as it is an AT&T "hero " phone. The two have already discussed it. So Apollo will be on our lumias
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Just got home from pre-ordering my Black Lumia 900. The manager that was at the store said that the 900 would get the next major update and that it will probably even get it before the first Windows Phone 8 handset is sold. The store I got mine from had 7 handsets for employees. He told me that they do not belong to the employees and that they don't get to keep them. I asked them to download WP Bench and test the battery. They all told me the battery is amazingly lasting. The manager had a two hour conference call and still had over 75% life left.

Rumors, Lies, Truth and Sorcery: Gizmodo: Every Windows Phone Will Get Windows 8

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
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Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
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And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
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Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
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Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
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And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
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& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
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Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
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No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.

An idea for the poor ones with no WP8 update.

Been thinking a bit.
I have been waiting for a Nokia WP phone since dec.2011. I'm sure that just like many of you, I have been disappointed by the lack of WP8 update.
But then, I looked at my phone.
I currently own a Motorola defy +, a device which currently is stuck at Android 2.3.4. I never got a 4.0 update for my phone. The reason? Phone stability. The community did indeed attempt to port 4.0 on my phone, but sadly, I see it as a potential failure; there are still lots of bugs to iron out, and it will take more time to fix than what I suppose the devs will ever waste time on.
Do I complain? Hardly. I complain about the OS being Android and thus a cheap, unstable OS. But nothing else.
So, 2.3 isn't that bad, and 4.0 isn't that necessary. I live with it.
Now, how I see stuff in the WP universe?
7.8 isn't that bad, and 8.0 isn't that necessary.
I live with it.
And honestly, I am really tempted to get a lumia 800. And maybe even will. I seriously doubt that cheap 8 phones will appear instantly, since people want dual-cores and more RAM, and, and...
But I think that WP7.8 will remain the cheap version of 8, and that we will even see new phones with 7.8 on board. All for the sake of OS stability.
You can't be the fastest guy with your tech stuff unless you're bloody rich.

I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then

That is the big question: what will the Windows Phone answer for the low-end and emerging market? Will it be these running 7.8 or 8? Honestly, I cannot see Microsoft wanting both to co-exist for very long.
To MS, 7 has not been exactly a big hit with the general public. Plus, I would think that Microsoft would want to get all Windows Phone users onto 8 as soon as possible. That way, they can grow the platform the fastest without being dragged down by the old OS. When WP8 launches later this year, they want a big splash where lots of people buy into it right away. They cannot afford no interest or even a lackluster response. That is why I think Nokia and/or Microsoft should consider a trade-in program where WP7 users get some sort of discount on a WP8 device. At least this way, the tech news websites will report that WP8 is off to a great start. When 7 was launched, there were sites that called it DOA.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.

drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change the third instantly to forever and change another two instantly to probably would be the correct answer, though no one would like to commit the fact.:cyclops:
A smartphone without proper apps is just a dumbphone. For those who lives well without apps, low end Android and Symbian phones would fit their needs while saving their money, why bother spending more than 500EUR for such a device? (Don't tell me the AT&T offer unless you can bring it worldwide) Let's see how M$ deal with this situation.

fatclue said:
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I myself have considered a lot of things about the WP7.8 update, but I didn't realize MS disallows the use of apps as soon as WP8 is released... oh, wait. it doesn't!
The WP7 Marketplace will not instantly disappear. You will still be able to install all of the apps already in the marketplace. Granted, the flow of apps *might* slow down but surely it wont stop instantly seeing as WP8 needs to gain adoption before being a reasonable mobile ecosystem to abandon WP7. But WP7 has a magnitude of apps already available to its disposal that cover a lot of functions so your phone will not be useless unless it is already useless.

Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Frosty3k said:
and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...

Frosty3k said:
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.

Questions
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?

efektos said:
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 7.8 startscreen lands on current 7.5 hardware you can wave BB to updates...thats it...MS will be all about the new wp8. Pls dont play stupid on this..you know what we are talking about.
efektos said:
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a giro and a ff camera dosen't make a phone that much better 800 and 900 are almost the same, except the 900 was built primarily as an US device, while the 800 has the right form factor for EU and Asia.
I wont debate over what you said about the lumia 800 not being high end...its a matter of opinion. Actually I'll go into into in just a bit
For example i dont find the GSIII to be a better phone. I dosent matter how many CPUs you have and how much ram...its how you use those resources..and that GSIII still lags...but other users that are not so mad with android...might like it 10 times more than a lumia. It depends on what you like, and over the years, I realized its a loosing battle trying to convince someone that your point of view is the right one.
That being said, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my post, your reply is offtopic, and i have the feeling you are arguing just for the sake or arguing.

ebautista said:
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
4. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said "4." 2 times.

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe it will not "gone". But slowly will go down. If WP8 will release, developers will be divided. Some will do native (C/C++), some will stay in wp7 coz MSFT said WP7 apps will still run in WP8, and some will do both but of course eventually will stop supporting wp7 as time goes.
---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated. thanks man!

fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.

Frosty3k said:
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you missed it, the 6.5 Marketplace shut down last month. Yes, May 2012. Sorry Sparky, your gloom and doom forecasts are way out of whack. I still use WM and it works the same, if not better than, as it did 3 years ago. There is no self-destruct button on these things once a newer system comes to town. Face it, technology moves faster than your 2-year contract. Why do I even bother wasting my time? I'm out.

I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP

rajan17_88 said:
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.

1/ Android does many things. It is nearly complete feature-wise. My HTC G2 runs like a champ. Plus everybody knows about droid fragmented updates but they don't care, the thing is live, not beta.
2/ I hate iPhone because it is expensive and full of fanboism. Still it is better for 1 year old phone to miss only one or two exclusively new features than a six-month old to get only one new visual feature and miss out the functional rest. See the difference there?
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will even consider buying blackberry or iPhone just for their customer support which is way better than MS support.

WP8 has a user base of zero right now - and is unlikely to be more than WP7 by the end of the year .. why will devs not write for wp7 as well as WP8 ? for the majority of apps the Silverlight/XNA is fine.. for the Apps for which this not true then they won't run anyhow.. not at all like WM6.5 - in that case none of the apps were x-compatible to WP7 and you had to start again.. clearly not the case here..
Oh, and what's with the "M$" nonsense - like Google & Apple don't care about $$$ ? - duh I forgot those guys channel all their profits into searching for a cure for cancer...

How many petitions do we need?!?

Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.

OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.

fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.

OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.

Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Count me in!

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.

nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.

equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.

jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium

MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lool.

Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]

I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!

I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..

mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.

Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:

@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?

Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.

Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

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