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Paul Thurrott from Windows Phone Secrets have revealed, well, some secrets about the upcoming Windows Phone 7 updates.
He writes that we can expect two updates this year – the first expected to be announced this week, but only pushed in February by carriers, will be called NoDo (for no donuts), will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset, a CDMA location stack, and a number of software fixes.
Of note is that the Snapdragon-based Qualcomm 7×30 chipset comes with HDMI output and the ability to play back 720p video on both its host device and a HDTV. It also supports Flash 10.1.
The next Mango, will come some time later in the year, and bring Internet Explorer 9 with with the Trident 5 rendering engine, HTML 5 and Silverlight, and gesture support. This 75xx (actually version 7.2) update will apparently bring additional, unrelated features as well.
Paul also mentions that Microsoft does not intend to push a number of small updates, but only a few large updates per year, which should mean long waits between each one.
Source:
wpcentral.com/thurrott-details-2011-wp7-updates-mango-and-nodo-as-no-donuts
wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-updates-nodo-and-mango-coming/
I still believe that we'll see at least 3 updates in the year. 2 small ones and one large one.
Carriers could hold up and update for 1 cycle. That "advantage" would seem close to useless if the cycles could be almost a year apart.
You misspoke when you said updates are pushed out by carriers. Updates are released by Microsoft but tested by carriers before officially released.
From the article:
Thurrott reports that NoDo will RTM in January, with consumers seeing the update in the early February timeframe, after testing by carriers.
I don't think it would be logistically feasible to push tons of updates and bug fixes as they come up, instead of cumulative updates.
The carriers have to certify them, and I'm sure that they have to be given a certain amount of time to do so.
Though I would like to see an aggressive update schedule. Maybe one every 3 months.
abhinayp said:
Paul Thurrott from Windows Phone Secrets have revealed, well, some secrets about the upcoming Windows Phone 7 updates.
He writes that we can expect two updates this year – the first expected to be announced this week, but only pushed in February by carriers, will be called NoDo (for no donuts), will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset, a CDMA location stack, and a number of software fixes.
Of note is that the Snapdragon-based Qualcomm 7×30 chipset comes with HDMI output and the ability to play back 720p video on both its host device and a HDTV. It also supports Flash 10.1.
The next Mango, will come some time later in the year, and bring Internet Explorer 9 with with the Trident 5 rendering engine, HTML 5 and Silverlight, and gesture support. This 75xx (actually version 7.2) update will apparently bring additional, unrelated features as well.
Paul also mentions that Microsoft does not intend to push a number of small updates, but only a few large updates per year, which should mean long waits between each one.
Source:
wpcentral.com/thurrott-details-2011-wp7-updates-mango-and-nodo-as-no-donuts
wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7-updates-nodo-and-mango-coming/
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actually he said that there will be more small updates between now and mango.
Though mango sounds like a great update (IE9 with full silverlight and html 5)
The fact that "Mango" is being labeled as the "Entertainment Branch" makes me wonder about what the "Business Branch" is.
I think it's safe to assume that there is a Business Branch. So I wonder what priority is given to it. Will it come before or after Mango? Will it be released concurrently? What types of updates would fall under "Business Branch"?
I would say letting carriers in "testing" the update is a bad move on Microsoft's part. If it is anything like Palm, a carrier will push the update rather quickly (Sprint), while the other carriers will release it much latter (one month or more) and only because customers were getting pissed (AT&T and Verizon).
canadariot2312 said:
I would say letting carriers in "testing" the update is a bad move on Microsoft's part. If it is anything like Palm, a carrier will push the update rather quickly (Sprint), while the other carriers will release it much latter (one month or more) and only because customers were getting pissed (AT&T and Verizon).
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As it was said above, the carriers don't push the updates. When MS released WP7 they said all devices would get updates at the same time, regardless of device or carrier.
The proclamations of imminent failure are rather humorous. It shows 2 main things to me.
1. Some people have very short attention spans, and can't fathom the idea of a "long term plan"
2. Some people think that every other consumer wants the same thing that they do
Microsoft is in this for the long haul. The fact that they have stated that they don't expect to be in a position to beat the major players for at least a few years shows that they are looking at this as a long term investment.
There is a large portion of the mobile phone using market that hasn't upgraded to using a smart phone yet. Many people are happy with their regular phones because they feel that they don't need the features of a smart phone. However, every year, more and more of this very large market slowly moves over into the smartphone arena. These are people who want something that is slick, easy to use, and interesting. They don't need every feature under the sun. These are the kind of people that made the first iPhone such a success even though it severely lacked features compared to Windows Mobile. These are the people that the "Really?" commercials are targeted towards. People who haven't already jumped on the smartphone bandwagon because it just all seems like "too much."
The fact that MS is planning major upgrades to WP7 at all is awesome. It shows that while they are going for the casual feature phone user, they also want to get smartphone users as well. And the fact that they're doing it so quickly is even more awesome. After all, how long has the phone been out now? 2 months? 3 months by the time of the first update? Not too shabby.
MartyLK said:
Just a few I garnered for you:
http://blog.wirelessground.com/windows-phone-7-success-or-failure/
http://www.conceivablytech.com/4653...hone-7-failure-microsoft-will-buy-ad-company/
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-even-bigger-disaster-i-thought-912
http://mosspuppet.com/2010/03/15/windows-phone-7-is-already-a-failure/
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/662...phone-webkit-html-5-ie7-browser-google-ap.htm
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/gartner-predicts-windows-phone-7-will-not-succeed
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I clicked on some of these articles and some were from March, September, and right around the time of launch. Seriously?
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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It's supposed to be current generation hardware that has that.
abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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The MSM7x30 is a second generation snapdragon that has improved GPU (as used in the T-Mobile G2). Though, based on the wiki this is 800 MHz. Guess we'll have to wait for the actual details.
All current WP7 phones use the QSD8250, so this won't benefit existing phones.
poedgirl said:
As it was said above, the carriers don't push the updates. When MS released WP7 they said all devices would get updates at the same time, regardless of device or carrier.
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With that being said, can't Microsoft themselves push the update as early as next week? The first update seems really minor.
MartyLK said:
A consumer oriented model would have brought the features out either at launch or soon there after. And a consumer oriented model would not hold out on features that are common in the market already for such a long period of time.
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If the features were ready at launch or around launch, they would have been released. We don't have the functionality because it's not ready. It is no more complicated than that.
abhinayp said:
From the article: will bring support for the Qualcomm 7×30 smart phone chipset
Is this a support for any new hardware that might come in future wp7 phones or do the existing wp7 phones support this?
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CDMA support
lqaddict said:
Yet MS orchestrated the iPhone funeral during WP7 launch...
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So MS can't do that because they feel (and they do) that they have a good competitive product?
The thing with articles is because they influence public outlook on stuff (for the most part). How many claimed WP7 was gonna fail because KIN was discontinued? Articles nowadays are usually biased toward or for a certain platform and hardly treated as fact. It's always an opinion of some person.
I think you missed my point that a very large percentage of potential customers aren't interested in a list of "features" that could be checked off.
Many people who are transitioning from feature phone to smart phone just want the transition to be nice and painless.
You're looking at things from the perspective of a veteran smartphone user. And most people aren't.
I disagree that the mango update is an issue. It's not like android where half the devices are still on 2.1 with 2.2 released months ago and 2.3 just released.
Updates will be across all phones, yes it will take time to get them, but what OS gets releases out fast?
nrfitchett4 said:
I disagree that the mango update is an issue. It's not like android where half the devices are still on 2.1 with 2.2 released months ago and 2.3 just released.
Updates will be across all phones, yes it will take time to get them, but what OS gets releases out fast?
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Only thing on this thread that hasn't made me cringe with "WTF?!", so thanks for that.
Did anybody really expect HTML5, Silverlight, Copy & Paste, Multitasking within 2 months of release and bug-free?? That's impossible. They've only been working on the entire OS for just over a year ffs. I'm amazed we're even using WM7 right now, let alone getting ANY sort of an update within a few weeks.
People on this thread just sound like this is their first early adoptation of a phone. Welcome to the gadget world, friends.
Apologies if this has been covered to death, I don't recall reading it anywhere though....
With rumors of W8/WP8 shipping some time next year, have MS announced the plans to upgrade WP7 devices?
Thing is I'm due an upgrade around March 2012. If i was to say go for the equivalent of whatever the Lumia 900 ends up being, is this likely to get the upgrade to WP8 when it's launched or WP7 generation devices in general.
In an akward position where I don't want to keep my Omnia 7 any longer than I have to when i'm in a position to upgrade....
Thanks,
Like you i am currently running a first generation WP7 handset (HTC HD7) albeit not locked into a contract. With numerous second generation handsets coming out I still do not feel the urge in upgrading nor do I feel the urge in moving to another OS.
Currently it is rumored that WP7 Tango, an interim release between WP7 Apollo which has been touted as potentially being WP8 has been said to be released half way through 2012 and the end of 2012 respectively. Although this should be taken with a grain of salt.
Tango is said to be a small update which is to be focused on cheaper handsets although it would appear it is to support dual core and a higher screen resolution and a few more features, as I don’t think they could wait till Apollo to release these features. Some people have said Apollo will be windows phone 8 and i would not be surprised if this is true as it would be imperfect timing with windows 8 and would secure continuity between their offerings. Microsoft has put a massive emphasizes on minimum specification in WP7 and the future windows 8, they have even stated that one of their parameters for windows 8 was to have equal or smaller system requirements then Windows 7. I assume this kind of thinking and mentality was translated to Windows Phone.
Whilst second generation phones will weather the test of time better than a first generation phone I highly doubt Microsoft will leave first generation and second generation in the dark as alienating the early adopters would perhaps be the worst strategy they could do. Although the new phones are tempting I think I can survive with my HD7 for the time being although something like a HDC radar would be a good intermediate phone between the second Gen and third Gen device as it is priced well.
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
Yeh... I'd assumed we would definintely get Tango as it's touted as an intermediate update before WP8/Apollo.
I'd happily hang on but it would mean i'd have had the Omnia for 2 years, and i've had enough problems with it already. Craving something by Nokia....
PG2G said:
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
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Two years seems like a reasonable timeframe, but I seriously doubt that they will support any device longer than that. Just think about the hardware changes that have either been added or are on the roadmap that don't exist on 1st gen phones: gyroscopes, FFCs, NFC. The way phone technology is evolving, anything over two years old is a dinosaur (and in most cases, worn out), and I really don't see any manufacturer willingly offering to support such devices.
Buy a phone without a contract ?
sin_nombre said:
the requirements for windows 8 on PCs are the same as they have been for vista and how old are those computers? much more than 2 years. they are also still making builds of WM6.x (all the way into the 29xxx build series) but they just arent currently being released on any devices
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Never mind. I don't respond to eric.
So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
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WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.
vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
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I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
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Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
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At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.
I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?
ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
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No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
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Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
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you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.
ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
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We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.
bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
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Understood, good info here- thanked
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.
A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Chances are this info isn't on the first few pages of a search site, besides speculation. But I was hoping a developer or other person in position to, could clarify with potential buyers.
I know it is only logical that it should be able to upgrade but there is a bit of doubt spreading on the web. Logical meaning ~5-8 months till WP8.
If someone finds out please let us know here. I really want a Lumia 900, but I'm not able to purchase one without knowing if OS upgrades will continue for it.
I would love to know that answer as well. They have not said anything specific to my knowledge, but it would be asinine to think they wouldn't make the upgrade available. I would liken WP platform more to Apple's, where devices will be updated in a timely fashion and for a longer period of time.
Seed 2.0 said:
Chances are this info isn't on the first few pages of a search site, besides speculation. But I was hoping a developer or other person in position to, could clarify with potential buyers.
I know it is only logical that it should be able to upgrade but there is a bit of doubt spreading on the web. Logical meaning ~5-8 months till WP8.
If someone finds out please let us know here. I really want a Lumia 900, but I'm not able to purchase one without knowing if OS upgrades will continue for it.
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You know, this info is not out yet, and I doubt it will be soon. If you've seen the leaked Apollo specs, you know windows phone is in for a major upgrade hardware wise. No one will admit that because it would kill any momentum wp has right now. That momentum is needed.
Nokia has made a huge investment in wp. Microsoft is said to be paying 1/2 to 1 billion dollars every quarter to nokia, to make the happen. Their low to mid range devices are nice and being well accepted.. I have a lumia 710, and a Samsung focus s. Both are very nice. They have successfully weaned me from android.
But, the heavy hitter from nokia is due later this month. The 900 is the flagship. I had the pure joy of touching one last week. It was phenomenal. I can't wait.
The flagship device, logically, should see Apollo. Though you may see an Apollo version similar to the mango/tango relationship. I would wager that an upgrade will happen.
Of course, a grain of salt with everything. We should know more by July or so.
Further discussions here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1533604
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
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Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: @thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: @thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
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And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.
dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
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Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
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Apple design his own hardware.
mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
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And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
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& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.
drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
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Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
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No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.
drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
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Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
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We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
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Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
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I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.