So yeah, the speed test was in another language so o don't know what he was saying. He basically set up a timer and spammed the phone with a load of apps. The HTC ended up coming in last against the Samesung S7 and G5. My question is, sure it came in last, but who the hell is really gonna use their phone like that?? It's not realistic in the slightest. On top of that the 10 is still pre release which makes me think this could have been done deliberately to try and make the 10 look bad and the S7 look good as most reviewers do. What do you guys think? I'll update the post with a link to the video
Those types of tests come up from time to time. Most of the time they should just be ignored because they're not really indicative of anything. Maybe the S7 had everything already cached in RAM, or maybe the G5 had fewer background apps. Either way for 99.98% of people all three phones are basically identical in terms of performance, and really performance hasn't really mattered for a long time in Android. These days, there are more important things to look for than SoC.
I thought I read that the S7 is faster at multitasking whereas the HTC 10 is faster at single tasks.
In the end, jcracken is correct. The 10, S7, and G5 are pretty much the same. All fast.
I agree, they have similar internals. Make your choice on real things like LCD vs AMOLED, modular vs enclosed, wireless charging with micro USB vs USB C, heavy android skins vs minor customizations and the list goes on. These are the things that will identify if a phone is best for you (notice I didn't say best, there is no best just best for you). Not opening and closing apps. If you don't have multiple phones you won't even notice the millisecond difference.
The post about the s7 being faster at multi tasking and the 10 being faster at single tasks... Unless you are talking about the s7 with the Exynos processor, the s7 and the 10, and the g5 for that matter, are all running the exact same processors, that means same amount of cores, same amount of threads, same amount of onboard cache... The only thing I could see making a big enough difference to be noticeable would be the amount of cached processes after a fresh boot, meaning how much junk did the manufacturer and or carrier add to the device such as bloatware. In this situation the 10 has been noticeably lighter than the others in terms of skin mods and bloat, it is the closest to pure Google edition or straight android experience as you can get from these 3. However as others have said, these processors have been so fast in the last few years that it really doesn't make any noticeable difference for daily use because they are all ridiculously fast. This fact that this person used a test that can't be reproduced exactly, and can't be compared to a baseline or huge database of identical tests, shows that he has no idea what he is doing and leads me to believe his results will be biased towards his personal preference. The real results you are looking for will be from a benchmarking software, not from a user opening endless amounts of apps with a stopwatch. Look at Antutu and 3dMark... There may be better ones around now but for me these have been good reliable data. Keyword being DATA. Hope this helps.
S1CAR1US said:
The post about the s7 being faster at multi tasking and the 10 being faster at single tasks... Unless you are talking about the s7 with the Exynos processor, the s7 and the 10, and the g5 for that matter, are all running the exact same processors, that means same amount of cores, same amount of threads, same amount of onboard cache... The only thing I could see making a big enough difference to be noticeable would be the amount of cached processes after a fresh boot, meaning how much junk did the manufacturer and or carrier add to the device such as bloatware. In this situation the 10 has been noticeably lighter than the others in terms of skin mods and bloat, it is the closest to pure Google edition or straight android experience as you can get from these 3. However as others have said, these processors have been so fast in the last few years that it really doesn't make any noticeable difference for daily use because they are all ridiculously fast. This fact that this person used a test that can't be reproduced exactly, and can't be compared to a baseline or huge database of identical tests, shows that he has no idea what he is doing and leads me to believe his results will be biased towards his personal preference. The real results you are looking for will be from a benchmarking software, not from a user opening endless amounts of apps with a stopwatch. Look at Antutu and 3dMark... There may be better ones around now but for me these have been good reliable data. Keyword being DATA. Hope this helps.
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How would it help me open up applications faster on my PC if I were to upgrade from a 2008 i7-920 to a 2015 i7-6700K (+50%-+120% faster) if I'd still be using a hard drive for my operating system and applications?
It would still have the slow hard drive, despite upgrading to a significantly faster CPU, which would be the bottleneck when opening programs or booting the operating system itself.
The SoC is irrelevant in this discussion if the app is not already in memory. If it's not in memory, it's going to be loaded from the internal NAND, which is what will make the difference.
And if the recently opened app is not in memory, then they're doing something wrong. 4GB's of RAM is a ridiculous amount and with zRAM enabled you can fit loads of stuff there.
Last year the M9 was faster than the S6 (and G4 if memory serves correct) in this kind of a test, sure the first round of app opening was slower on the M9 but the M9 held the apps in memory where as the S6 dumped them almost immediately and on the second round M9 blasted past the S6 because M9 was opening the apps from memory (fast) while the S6 was opening them from the NAND (slow).
Because of that, the M9 was one of the best phones for multitasking. Looks like Samsung learned their lesson.
The HTC 10 uses iNAND 7232 (TLC + ~0.5-1GB SLC cache, eMMC5.1) from Sandisk.
Where as the S7/S7E and LG G5 use UFS storage.
Whether or not the eMMC5.1 is a serious enough bottleneck compared to the UFS in regard to opening apps etcetera remains to be seen.
I haven't seen any reliable random 4K read/write numbers (which are important when opening apps, updating them etc from NAND) of the HTC 10.
I'm waiting for Joshua Ho from Anandtech to release his review, which will unfortunately take a while as he's got exams and as a cherry on top they've been doing a major overhaul to their WiFi testing. His S7/S7E review part 2 will arrive first though.
Thankfully I'm not in a hurry to order this phone
This review shows how slow the HTC 10 is at opening certain apps. All down to storage performance?
Does anyone know how much of a performance impact using adoptable storage would have on the phone? Would love to have one 128gb partition rather than the internal memory plus SD card. But just unsure about how if affects performance.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge
mahdibassam said:
Does anyone know how much of a performance impact using adoptable storage would have on the phone? Would love to have one 128gb partition rather than the internal memory plus SD card. But just unsure about how if affects performance.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge
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Click to collapse
Well what do you think? Not every SD card is created equal.
If you buy a SD card with really slow random 4K read/write speeds, yes it will impact it a lot.
If you buy a fast one, not that big of an impact*.
Most of the time SD cards have lousy random 4K speeds because the best of the best, crem de la crem NAND chips end up in SSD's and phone NAND storage and so on, SD cards get the lowest quality.
Also SD card manufacturers don't advertise these random 4K numbers so you're going to have to be the Sherlock Holmes yourself and do the research into what is the best product for me.
SD card manufacturers only boast about the sequential read/write speeds which are only relevant with 4K recording or downloading/transferring large files and so on where as opening apps and updating apps and doing this and that stuff on your phone is not sequential so don't focus on those numbers, they're irrelevant with adoptable storage..
Take a look at the page 1 of "MicroSD speed spec" thread over in the "HTC 10 Questions & Answers" subforum, I talked more about this over there and don't feel like typing all of that again.
Here's a direct link to my post there.
*This of course depends on how fast the HTC 10 iNAND 7232 is in regard to random 4K read/write, haven't seen any reliable numbers yet.
lagittaja said:
How would it help me open up applications faster on my PC if I were to upgrade from a 2008 i7-920 to a 2015 i7-6700K (+50%-+120% faster) if I'd still be using a hard drive for my operating system and applications?
It would still have the slow hard drive, despite upgrading to a significantly faster CPU, which would be the bottleneck when opening programs or booting the operating system itself.
The SoC is irrelevant in this discussion if the app is not already in memory. If it's not in memory, it's going to be loaded from the internal NAND, which is what will make the difference.
And if the recently opened app is not in memory, then they're doing something wrong. 4GB's of RAM is a ridiculous amount and with zRAM enabled you can fit loads of stuff there.
Last year the M9 was faster than the S6 (and G4 if memory serves correct) in this kind of a test, sure the first round of app opening was slower on the M9 but the M9 held the apps in memory where as the S6 dumped them almost immediately and on the second round M9 blasted past the S6 because M9 was opening the apps from memory (fast) while the S6 was opening them from the NAND (slow).
Because of that, the M9 was one of the best phones for multitasking. Looks like Samsung learned their lesson.
The HTC 10 uses iNAND 7232 (TLC + ~0.5-1GB SLC cache, eMMC5.1) from Sandisk.
Where as the S7/S7E and LG G5 use UFS storage.
Whether or not the eMMC5.1 is a serious enough bottleneck compared to the UFS in regard to opening apps etcetera remains to be seen.
I haven't seen any reliable random 4K read/write numbers (which are important when opening apps, updating them etc from NAND) of the HTC 10.
I'm waiting for Joshua Ho from Anandtech to release his review, which will unfortunately take a while as he's got exams and as a cherry on top they've been doing a major overhaul to their WiFi testing. His S7/S7E review part 2 will arrive first though.
Thankfully I'm not in a hurry to order this phone
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Whoa thanks for sharing Anandtech with me, I had no idea such a thorough reviewer existed.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10252/htc-10-battery-storage-results
So thanks.
And here's a quick quote from Anandtech
In this test at least, write performance of the HTC 10 is 75% greater than the Samsung MLC UFS solution in the Galaxy S7 due to the use of an SLC write cache. However, sequential reads on the Galaxy S7 are about 35% higher than what they are on the HTC 10.
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It's not that bad.
Quick question, can you set pictures to save to sd card but everything else on internal?
Phil750123 said:
Quick question, can you set pictures to save to sd card but everything else on internal?
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Click to collapse
yes you can
theres an option to save to external storage in the default camera app
The one area HTC's been getting flak in the benchmark wars? Storage. HTC opted for a SanDisk part for internal storage, and that part is an eMMC 5.1 chip versus the objectively faster UFS 2.0 found in the Galaxy S7 and LG G5. Testing bears this out - in the Androidbench storage benchmark suite, the HTC 10 is very clearly slower than its rivals from Samsung and LG. Here are my abbreviated results.
Sequential read: 435MB/s (S7), 251MB/s (10), 459MB/s (G5)
Sequential write: 150MB/s (S7), 74MB/s (10), 134MB/s (G5)
Random read: 121MB/s (S7), 32MB/s (10), 88MB/s (G5)
Random write: 17MB/s (S7), 14MB/s (10), 16MB/s (G5)
http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...good-phone-but-one-that-costs-too-much-money/
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I came across this, seems very different then the anandtech one. Would really like to get a clearer picture to the performance of the storage.
sonny21 said:
I came across this, seems very different then the anandtech one. Would really like to get a clearer picture to the performance of the storage.
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Click to collapse
Looks to me like they're using AndroBench's default settings.
Comparing those to Ars Technica's numbers, looks like Android Authority didn't even bother changing the sequential to 256KB from the default 32768KB...
Anandtech is a website that does objective, thorough testing and for example uses settings in AndroBench that actually reflect how real world applications on Android read or write to/from the NAND.
I'll just leave these here
Hunt3rj2 a.k.a. Joshua Ho from Anandtech said:
I don't enjoy calling out other sites for poor testing methodology but I can at least explain how Ars Technica arrived at those results.
In short, they're using AndroBench's default settings other than changing sequential to 256KB.
The default settings are designed to give a huge advantage to UFS in ways that real apps generally do not.
By default, AndroBench uses 8 IO threads for all of its tests.
This behavior showed up with AndroBench 4 and continues in AndroBench 4.1.
eMMC is half-duplex, and designed for single-threaded IO tasks.
It's not the greatest system, but it is the most common storage in use in Android phones, so applications are going to be designed for eMMC storage instead of the 5 or so phones that are shipping with UFS storage.
Multi-threaded IO actually can negatively affect storage performance with eMMC because of resource contention issues, so in general it's rare to see multi-threaded IO in real apps.
This leads to the results that Ars Technica is seeing.
There's also an element of variability with AndroBench out of the box because the file size is 64MB.
I've found that in the move from AndroBench 3.6 to 4.1 that the test has become far less stable and results can vary significantly from run to run, so I usually take the mode of multiple runs to get a result to report.
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Reply by moops__
I can confidently say that almost no app developer designs their app based on eMMC or UFS storage. No one cares what kind of storage is in a phone.
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To which Joshua replied
That's fair, but generally speaking it's more difficult to implement multithreading than not. Using 8 threads for IO is going to be a rare situation at best.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4erulh/htc_10_a_quick_look_at_battery_life_storage/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/htc-10-review-htc-builds-the-best-android-flagship-of-2016/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10252/htc-10-battery-storage-results
Here's Anandtech's Galaxy S7 (SD820) numbers
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10120/the-samsung-galaxy-s7-review/3
If the guy in the video isn't speaking English, he probably has the exynos. The video that was posted is also an exynos. It's widely known that the exynos is a beast, but the US variant will have SD 820.
I want to see the speed test that runs an app requiring root on both phones.
Related
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Processor
The Complaint:
1.2 GHz isn't 1.5
The chip comes with the outdated SGX540 GPU
The Possible Reason:
The s2 Exynos apparently doesn't work well with LTE right now. Personally, I'd prefer LTE latency to HSPA+ with a marginally faster processor.
The GPU does suck, but unfortunately there aren't really any other chipsets available right now offering something better for LTE.
And keep in mind, the OMAP 4460 is BRAND NEW. This is not the same OMAP 4430 that has been in other phones to date. The clock speed was tuned down to 1.2 GHz in order to avoid delays when the 1.5 speeds were not stable.
While the GPU may suck, apparently the OMAP 4460 has some nice features in the way of media/video processing, which was behind Google's decision to go with that chipset.
Update: That media/video processing feature is called the IVA 3 -- it is a hw video decoder/encoder that supports [email protected] for h.264, MPEG-4, and h.263, VP8, etc. In essence, it allows for low power consumption while playing back HD quality video (and this makes a lot more sense as to why Google decided to go with OMAP for their new 720p resolution device). More info: http:// blog . webmproject . org/2010/10/demo-of-webm-running-on-ti-omap-4.html
Camera
The Complaint:
5 MP isn't 8
Sample pictures aren't mind-blowing
The Possible Reason:
Instant shutter and panoramic photos.
The Galaxy Nexus takes photos REALLY quickly, and the panoramic photo capability depends on that. This means the phone needs both a fast lens (search Wikipedia for "Lens speed") and likely a sensor capable of operating at those speeds. It's quite possible that they had to sacrifice in MP in order to get those speeds.
So yes, the camera is not as "good" as other phones might have, but the marginal decrease might be what's allowing it to run circles around other cameras in photo speed and generate some impressive panoramas.
Those seem to be the two major complaints right now. Also, I admit my hardware knowledge isn't as in depth as some others on xda, so I welcome any additional info. Thoughts?
For me it would be the Camera and lack of SD card.
I can deal with 5MP if it also had better image stabilization. The pics I have seen were not sharp. However, the fast AF and panoramic mode are bad ass.
The lack of a SD card is just annoying. As a developer, it would be nice to have this support.
Based on previous Nexus devices (One and S) i think NO see a
FM radio. Too bad...
The lack of SD card is kinda annoying.
The only two "sub-par" items that were listed is rather "meh." You will never tell the difference of 300Mhz. You can run your benchmark tools, but, user experience is nil.
Camera MP doesn't mean anything if the phone can't take decent pictures at all. If you're worried about anything over 5MP, then, you should carry a real camera.
For an FM radio... if it's lacking the hardware.... Tune In Radio app is a sweet replacement.
The Nexus phones sets the standard for all smartphones. This phone seems to be "above-par" to what is currently out there.
My gripes:
1. Way too close to the SGSII form factor. I found the SGSII to be insanely uncomfortable for me. It's far too thin to be so wide.
2. No SD card. Instant fail for me. It's not that the built-in memory isn't enough, it's that Samsung has a history of Nexus devices with failed memory and no way to fix it because there isn't an SD slot.
3. Samsung's total plastic body builds are lightweight, sure, but they feel like cheap pieces of throwaway junk. The Amaze, IMO, makes the SGSII feel like a chump (for reference, I don't use most HTC devices due to Sense, I prefer stock software but I love HTC's build quality).
4. It's made by Samsung. Again.
bfspider said:
If you're worried about anything over 5MP, then, you should carry a real camera.
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Couldn't agree more.
JaiaV said:
My gripes:
1. Way too close to the SGSII form factor. I found the SGSII to be insanely uncomfortable for me. It's far too thin to be so wide.
2. No SD card. Instant fail for me. It's not that the built-in memory isn't enough, it's that Samsung has a history of Nexus devices with failed memory and no way to fix it because there isn't an SD slot.
3. Samsung's total plastic body builds are lightweight, sure, but they feel like cheap pieces of throwaway junk. The Amaze, IMO, makes the SGSII feel like a chump (for reference, I don't use most HTC devices due to Sense, I prefer stock software but I love HTC's build quality).
4. It's made by Samsung. Again.
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Click to collapse
#3 has been connected with a metal chassis. If you take a look around some of the reviews, a few sites notice that difference.
kromem said:
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Those seem to be the two major complaints right now. Also, I admit my hardware knowledge isn't as in depth as some others on xda, so I welcome any additional info. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the device is meant for DEVELOPERS, not normal folks basically, that was probably their mentality
thus all the lack of high tech stuff, except for the screen
bfspider said:
#3 has been connected with a metal chassis. If you take a look around some of the reviews, a few sites notice that difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of them do have some internal metal chassis that acts like a skeleton of sorts, if I am not mistaken. That doesn't stop them from feeling like cheap pieces of trash.
I won't be able to jog faster with this phone, as it's slightly bigger and heavier than S2.
Galaxy S II weight = 116 grams
Galaxy Nexus weight = 135 grams
AllGamer said:
the device is meant for DEVELOPERS, not normal folks basically, that was probably their mentality
thus all the lack of high tech stuff, except for the screen
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Click to collapse
If anything, that makes less sense. Normal people don't even know what OMAP or a SGX540 is.
And I kind of meant thoughts on whether or not my reasoning relating to the hardware choices seemed sound.
kromem said:
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Processor
The Complaint:
1.2 GHz isn't 1.5
The chip comes with the outdated SGX540 GPU
..snipped..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha even the 540 is upgrade for me, I'm still using the OG Droid with it's SGX530 toting OMAP3 chip. So a dual core OMAP4 is a vast upgrade for me.
Plus the lack of an SD card is no big deal for me...16GB of onboard storage is more than enough for me, meaning it doesn't really need an SD card as much as my Droid does.
For a while, I was sort of disappointed with a couple of the GN's specs, but I'm now very excited. Let me address the specs in question:
1. GPU : The GPU is the Nov 2007 SGX540 while the current ringleader is the Jan 2009 SGX543MP2. The difference is that the GN's GPU is clocked at a speedy 384 MHz, almost double that of the 200 MHz clock speed of the SGX543MP2. With that knowledge, plus the fact that I won't be playing console-quality games on a touchscreen, I was pretty much satisfied.
2. CPU : I first cringed when I heard that the GN was going to have a Ti-OMAP processor instead of the Exynos, but I was sort of happy when I learned it might be the OMAP4470, a beast of a phone. Then I checked Wikipedia, and was disappointed to learn the 4470 is coming out in Q2 2012, meaning I would have to settle with the lesser version. I'm still uneasy about this aspect, but the fact that Google has chose this processor specifically inclines me to think it will be optimized thoroughly. Just look at the iPhone4 vs the iPhone4S; a dual-core, plus a beefed up GPU don't make the phone any faster, as the OS has been perfectly coded to the hardware already. The GHz make no difference in real life, aside for half a second. Besides, more ICS devices are coming up according to Black_man_x, with AT&T leading in specs for now (the GSMarena Nexus Specs leak is probably that phone) so the best phone is perpetually going to be "right around the corner".
3. Camera: I knew this was going to be a 5MP shooter, as I predicted Google would push Google+ and instant upload with this model, which allows unlimited storage to 5MP photos. The camera is also hard coded to the CPU, which is why you get 1080p on a 5MP camera, which was previously unheard of (at least to me). Some 8MP still can't even do 1080p, resting at 720p only. Plus you get awesome features such as continuous exposure and photo capture while recording.
4. No SDCard slot: I never use microSD's so this isn't a problem for me. I can see how it would affect others though. I prefer internal storage over anything, as it's fast and secure. I just need to keep a NANDroid at all times on the device though
Honestly, everything else was amazing. The LED notification totally surprised me, as I thought it was going to be like the Epic's (a lame blue light at the top). I love the form factor and size, and I'm personally going to buy the HSPA+ model. I hate CDMA with a burning passion, and T-Mobile has got a new prepaid $30 5GB Unlimited Plan with 100 Mins and Unltd Texts that I can abuse. Whenever I feel like it, I can hop on over to AT&T, switch to 3 in the UK when I travel, or go with a local carrier. I made the mistake of buying the Nexus One a couple of months before the Nexus S landed, not going to make the same mistake again
where has it been confirmed the prime will ship with the 4460?
edit: aaaaand here's my answer:
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/24529-ti-confirms-omap-4460-is-in-nexus-galaxy
eric b
IMO nothing is wrong with the Camera, plus by now everyone should know that Megapixels don't mean a damn thing -_- this camera is actually pretty damn beast.
i think you misunderstand lens speed. the aperture of the lens for this camera really shouldn't be affected by the sensor. perhaps you mean sensor speed.
people still had the same complains with the NS...........I doubt we will be seeing any Nexus device jump as far ahead as the N1 did
For all those complaining about the lack of SD card slot I'm guessing you don't have a Honeycomb tablet with an SD card slot. Even with the latest Honeycomb update that came out about a month ago Google still doesn't have the SD card working like most expect. It is nothing like an SD card under Gingerbread. I believe they want people to use a new storage API to interact with the SD card so many apps don't see it or consider it read-only. Applications using the new storage API are read/write. It's a change and I think many existing Froyo/Gingerbread era apps will need to be updated for Ice Cream Sandwich.
That said my guess is Google still hasn't worked out these kinks with SD cards for early Ice Cream Sandwich either. Therefore going with all internal storage and no SD card option avoids the problem and will provide the best user experience. Motorola on the other hand has taken a beating from Xoom owners like myself that waited 6 months for any kind of SD card support and even then found it lacking.
The lack the sd card is a bit of a downer, if samsung goes the same route with the partitions as they did on the sgs2 then we'll only have 11.5gb of free space left on the sdcard.
wat no sd card? blasphemy!
Yes, this is an angry rant but this needs to be done.
After this forum has to endure relentless abuse from people about certain hardware decisions surrounding Windows Phone, I find it more than mildly amusing that these 3 flagship phones:
HTC One X - 4.7" Quad Core 1.5GHz 8MP
HTC One XL - 4.7" Dual Core 1.5GHz LTE 8MP
HTC One S - 4.3" Dual Core 1.5GHz 8MP
All have one thing in common: No SD Card Slot.
And the gorgeous Sony Xperia U/P phones are using android-laughable, mere Dual Core 1GHz "old" chips in 2012.
That being said, I love the direction new Sony Mobile is going in. Eye-catching phones with reasonable specs. Nothing overboard like 4.7" Quad Core. All we hear in here is specs specs specs, yet we are seeing a regression in certain areas among specific phones in the Android world. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard someone say Windows Phone is crap because 16GB no SD card slot is not going to be enough I would be retired.
What do Windows Phones need?
CPU: Modest Dual Core CPU only for the accompanying GPU to play nice games.
Handsets: More handsets on more carriers, and more nice ones like the Lumia 800/900. Would love to see Sony get into the Windows Phone game but that will not happen until Apple starts suing them too. And hey, if the S is popular enough that may happen.
Apps: More apps.
And that is it. Because a fantastic looking phone that is stable, smooth, has great battery life, and a huge library of apps is the recipe for success.
end rant.
I don't pay any of that junk attention, it's usually always the same people anyway....they'll see a shiny, new Android phone and the first thing they do is say "see, WP doesn't have this..it's a failure..". I read something the other day that made me literally laugh out loud: they said the"Windows fanboys" would change their tune about multiple cores...if the phone already comes with it, why wouldn't it be supported!?! I have repeatedly said I own an Evo 3D and an HD7, one has a single core processor, the other, a dual core processor...guess which one is smoother?
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Dr.8820 said:
I don't pay any of that junk attention, it's usually always the same people anyway....they'll see a shiny, new Android phone and the first thing they do is say "see, WP doesn't have this..it's a failure..". I read something the other day that made me literally laugh out loud: they said the"Windows fanboys" would change their tune about multiple cores...if the phone already comes with it, why wouldn't it be supported!?! I have repeatedly said I own an Evo 3D and an HD7, one has a single core processor, the other, a dual core processor...guess which one is smoother?
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Well, sometimes it is hard to ignore the junk when you read it everyday. A large part of the noise went away when bans were handed out.
But what is wrong with us all when specs matter regardless of how useable those specs are? I am beyond curious to see what battery life they 4.7" ultrasharp, ultracore phones are going to have and how people will be able to justify it.
I like my car fast, but I do not think its acceptable if I need to refuel constantly and carry around a fuel cannister in my trunk cuz the gas mileage sucks.
I agree, that's why I lol. ..some folks you just can't please: a person posted that you can't download mp3s over the air with WP, I said you can with the right app ( I use the full version of easyring ), they then complained that it wasn't free like Android lol...
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I pretty much silenced the entire quadcore android leaks...what MS needs to do thread when I posted 2 sources stating that multi cores were coming. I know N8ter got banned and he was the biggest one, who else got banned?
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
I pretty much silenced the entire quadcore android leaks...what MS needs to do thread when I posted 2 sources stating that multi cores were coming. I know N8ter got banned and he was the biggest one, who else got banned?
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Wow, N8ter got banned? I guess i been away for a while. I stopped paying attention to XDA for a while, because of him & a few others.
Ok, back on topic. Yeah, these specs do seem a little stupid, but this is even on WP7. I must say that the OEM's need to make better devices & give better choices on memory size. At least give a few versions; 8/16/32 GB. Not force everyone to one size. 16 GB is good enough for me for now, but I can see how some people could use more. 8 GB is just laughable IMO for that matter, but some people just don't need that much space I guess.
He forgot to mention they will be available in 16 32, and I think 64 gb variations.
nicksti said:
Well, sometimes it is hard to ignore the junk when you read it everyday. A large part of the noise went away when bans were handed out.
But what is wrong with us all when specs matter regardless of how useable those specs are? I am beyond curious to see what battery life they 4.7" ultrasharp, ultracore phones are going to have and how people will be able to justify it.
I like my car fast, but I do not think its acceptable if I need to refuel constantly and carry around a fuel cannister in my trunk cuz the gas mileage sucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree with this. I disappeared because of the constant Android fanfare here and the lack of action by the moderators. I had to constantly ***** about it in PM to them because they would hand out a warning to me and allow them to continue ruining the experience here.
I honestly don't think that these specs going on in the mobile world are going to last though. It's very reminiscent of the power wars with PCs a few years back. Ultimately, efficiency won out and not "omg I have 7ghz." And I think you're seeing that with Windows 8, where no new specs are required. We're seeing that with Windows Phone - where an older snapdragon feels like a newly released processor.
I'm honestly happy with my HD7, I have been since day one. The OS, the apps, and the experience has done nothing but improve every single day. With the exception of HTCs HORRIBLE driver release and bugs, it has been as solid as solid can be.
vetvito said:
He forgot to mention they will be available in 16 32, and I think 64 gb variations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys know how I feel about this. I one of the big supporters of the cloud, pandora, zune pass, etc when it comes to music. While I would love a little more space, I have a boat load of music on my phone, I stream even more, and I have 7gb left after a year and a half lol.
vetvito said:
He forgot to mention they will be available in 16 32, and I think 64 gb variations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forgot? The 4.3" Samsung Focus S comes in 16/32GB options as well in the same phone. The HTC One S 4.3" is 16GB. So I need to get a 4.7" phone in order to enjoy 32GB if I want an HTC One? Maybe that will change but as far as I see there are no variations.
But to be balanced I agree phones should come in 16/32GB variations. The Cloud is not a good answer for why only 8GB.
This is hilarious!
It takes android phones 4 cores to get near the smooth experience windows phone offers with only one core.
1unu1 said:
This is hilarious!
It takes android phones 4 cores to get near the smooth experience windows phone offers with only one core.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since this General forum is so quiet recently,proves that the reason I remained silence is correct due to the typical WP7 fans like above?
if bashing android like you said making you happy,then just do it.
just want to say single core android can run as smooth as WP7 when it only build to run easy stuffs like on WP7.
Will back to my silent state again...think and experience always make you better....
I think the forum is generally silent because you don't spend time tinkering with WP, it works. My point (and I think the Op's) is that having multiple cores on a cellphone doesn't guarantee a speedy user experience. No matter how much we go back and forth, some people can't accept that there are a select few that actually enjoy their phones without worrying what the other guys are doing .
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Dr.8820 said:
I think the forum is generally silent because you don't spend time tinkering with WP, it works. My point (and I think the Op's) is that having multiple cores on a cellphone doesn't guarantee a speedy user experience. No matter how much we go back and forth, some people can't accept that there are a select few that actually enjoy their phones without worrying what the other guys are doing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure the op had a point. It just seemed like the loling about certain new android phones having undesirable attributes. It seemed more about the sd card than the cores, anyway.
If I understand correctly, SD cards are being designed this way so that both system and user memory are combined into one; that way, there's no longer a hard system app limit, aside from of course the SD capacity. (I could be completely off.)
But all in all, what's the point of a thread on this? If you consider lack of SD card to be a dealbreaker like the people in the OP supposedly did, then yes, you won't be buying the One X. So what? Buy something else. Perhaps if there'd been a system change that made Android no longer support SD cards, then it'd be amusingly ironic. But you're talking about 3 phones here..
Not really anything new since the past two nexus phones haven't had SD slots, but it's definitely not going to help HTC with sales. Personally, I won't even consider buying a phone unless it has expandable storage. I passed on the Palm Pre back in the day for that very reason even though at the time it was the nicest phone Sprint had and I was stuck with a three year old Sanyo dumbphone.
It's a shame OEMs are following in Apple's footsteps with regard to non-expandable storage (unless you buy a whole new device for more money) and none removable batteries.
1unu1 said:
This is hilarious!
It takes android phones 4 cores to get near the smooth experience windows phone offers with only one core.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really on topic to this fora, but this being XDA we should at least try to keep information on here accurate.
It's a very common misconception that hardware will be able to fix Android's stuttering when it's a software issue. It comes down to the fact that Google hasn't optimized the Linux kernel for Mobile Devices instead of PCs. It doesn't give priority to the UI with CPU usage, so if something else wants CPU time the UI performance will suffer. Not to mention a thread can only run on one CPU so the other cores would just sit idle regardless. Hardware rendering has also always been available, but due to it's overhead there are times when it can actually hinder performance.
The article below deals primarily with Android, but the underlying issues apply to pretty much all operating systems.
https://plus.google.com/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
thebobp said:
I'm not sure the op had a point. It just seemed like the loling about certain new android phones having undesirable attributes. It seemed more about the sd card than the cores, anyway.
If I understand correctly, SD cards are being designed this way so that both system and user memory are combined into one; that way, there's no longer a hard system app limit, aside from of course the SD capacity. (I could be completely off.)
But all in all, what's the point of a thread on this? If you consider lack of SD card to be a dealbreaker like the people in the OP supposedly did, then yes, you won't be buying the One X. So what? Buy something else. Perhaps if there'd been a system change that made Android no longer support SD cards, then it'd be amusingly ironic. But you're talking about 3 phones here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what he's trying to say is that all the Android fanboys come in here and poke fun at and chant failure to all the WP phones that don't have removable storage and that now has come back at them with the newer android phones not having removable storage where as the WP8 phones will.
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
what he's trying to say is that all the Android fanboys come in here and poke fun at and chant failure to all the WP phones that don't have removable storage and that now has come back at them with the newer android phones not having removable storage where as the WP8 phones will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three new android phones don't have removable storage, yes, I get that. So what? There are so many other new devices that, if an android fanboy don't want the One X, he don't have to get it. Saying "haha you can't get these particular devices" isn't actually saying anything, when the dissers have a varied enough ecosystem to draw upon. Maybe if they were all HTC fans (but HTC isn't even the #1 seller anymore, so..)
nicksti said:
Yes, this is an angry rant but this needs to be done.
After this forum has to endure relentless abuse from people about certain hardware decisions surrounding Windows Phone, I find it more than mildly amusing that these 3 flagship phones:
HTC One X - 4.7" Quad Core 1.5GHz 8MP
HTC One XL - 4.7" Dual Core 1.5GHz LTE 8MP
HTC One S - 4.3" Dual Core 1.5GHz 8MP
All have one thing in common: No SD Card Slot.
....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am perfectly fine if an android phone doesn't have a SD card slot. Those are on the big side of the big-small continuum. I don't think I would want a phone without a micro SD card slot unless it was a cheap and small phone. Even then, I don't know if I would do one without a micro SD card slot. Of it is cheap, the it probably won't have much in the way of storage space.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
Wow, N8ter got banned? I guess i been away for a while. I stopped paying attention to XDA for a while, because of him & a few others.
Ok, back on topic. Yeah, these specs do seem a little stupid, but this is even on WP7. I must say that the OEM's need to make better devices & give better choices on memory size. At least give a few versions; 8/16/32 GB. Not force everyone to one size. 16 GB is good enough for me for now, but I can see how some people could use more. 8 GB is just laughable IMO for that matter, but some people just don't need that much space I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow... i haven't paid any attention to that guy for awhile!
But yeah... OEM is thinking that customer will not need more than 16GB of data which is wrong. And they are thinking that people would not want laggy performance, so they don't use the SD Card to prevent this.
That is what i think.
But, the problem with this, i have said many times , that people will never know that Windows Phone run smoother in One Core only, they will still believe in the number and the mouth of the representative. "2 Cores will be better than 1, 2 is bigger than 1" .
Same Sh!t, Different Day. (S.S.D.D)
sylau90 said:
Since this General forum is so quiet recently,proves that the reason I remained silence is correct due to the typical WP7 fans like above?
if bashing android like you said making you happy,then just do it.
just want to say single core android can run as smooth as WP7 when it only build to run easy stuffs like on WP7.
Will back to my silent state again...think and experience always make you better....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same reason I stopped posting in here.
I'm on single core and having a extremely smooth experience.
Its also extremely annoying not having removable storage as Nicksi pointed out. That and the non removable batteries are big issue.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
What windows needs is more apps Had a windows phone for a while so many of the apps arent updated (like angry birds)
The Samsung Galaxy S3 has served me well, but it now seems to struggle. Some apps seem to be processor limited, then they open the default web browser and when exiting the browser I find the app restarts which I assume is because of lack of memory.
Likewise, Google Maps can get very sluggish and use up lots of memory when driving a route of over an hours duration. Google could probably make it better, but unlikely if it works OK on more modern phones.
So I'm considering an upgrade to the LG G3, which would mean doubling the RAM from 1GB to 2GB and upping the processor from 1.5Ghz to 2.5Ghz.
Would this make things better? Or is the amount of RAM allocated to user apps similar and so I'll still have the same problems?
I keep seeing people talk about overheating issues and cracks, are these really a problem ?
speckles said:
The Samsung Galaxy S3 has served me well, but it now seems to struggle. Some apps seem to be processor limited, then they open the default web browser and when exiting the browser I find the app restarts which I assume is because of lack of memory.
Likewise, Google Maps can get very sluggish and use up lots of memory when driving a route of over an hours duration. Google could probably make it better, but unlikely if it works OK on more modern phones.
So I'm considering an upgrade to the LG G3, which would mean doubling the RAM from 1GB to 2GB and upping the processor from 1.5Ghz to 2.5Ghz.
Would this make things better? Or is the amount of RAM allocated to user apps similar and so I'll still have the same problems?
I keep seeing people talk about overheating issues and cracks, are these really a problem ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had a Galaxy SIII. Otherwise I come from a iPhone 4s, and before this I had a Sony-Ericsson Arc S. Personally speaking, I had a lot of problems with the Xperia: continuous rebooting, RAM limits, not software updates, etc. So I felt let down by Android, and I decide to switch to another platform. I can tell that the iPhone worked just fine, but I never felt comfortable in such a closed OS. Reading about technology and gadgets I realized that in three years Android had improved enough and it had become a very mature platform, so I came back to android. I chose the LG G3, because of the good reviews and the better price/value ratio, and I cant tell you that this was a very good decision. To sum up, the LG G3 is a very good device in every single aspect. It's cute, light and has an incredibly screen. Even with its huge 5.5' qHD screen, it's easily one hand managed. I heard complaints about poor battery life, overheating issues and lags. In contrast I never had one single issue: no lags, no overheating, great battery life and an incredible performance.
Last but not least the G3 has matured enough in the community to have a great developer support. Right now you can install Stock based Lollipop ROMs that will make your experience with this phone even better.
I bought my phone in July 2014. If, right now, I'd have to buy a new phone, it'd be the LG G3, again.
I came from S3. Totally new life with G3. No regrets.
I upgraded from an S3 too, no regrets whatshowever, the camera is a bit slower but the quality is so much better. As well as that, the screen is awesome! I strongly advise you to do so
I also upgrade from S3 to G3 (so many 3's )... The difference is huge. Much faster, great screen and not so big (for me is ok).
The only thing that dissapoint me is that in S3 we have so many roms, kernels, tweaks, etc etc and in G3 there are few (but goods )
So, for me, the upgrade is a Must and i'm really happy with that...
If you could get your hands on the 3GB ram version I would highly advise that to make it more future proof (you seem like a guy who wanna keep his phone for a while).
Thanks all, couldn't find a 3GB version, but ebuyer seem to be the cheapest, so bought it from there. Now just need to get them to actually deliver it. They've said they shipped via Yodel, which are not known for good customer service. Last package someone sent via them they lost!
I'll probably have lots of questions once I've got it!
Hey XDA!
I recently took back my Nexus 4 just for the sake of comparing ... and it turned out being faster than my 4 years newer N5X in specific scenarios!
My main problem with the Nexus 5X is that it easily runs short on RAM (due to the x64 chip?) and Facebook + Messenger are enough to make everything lag like crazy. Not to mention Spotify and navigation together. On my Nexus 4 I used to run more than 20 apps and services in the background without any downgrade in performance. I understand the issue and I just wanted to confirm if I am by some chance the only one experiencing this.
Thanks
facebooks android apps are not really known for their great and resource friendly performances. i personally have not yet run into such problems, but that doesn't say much.
what i imagine could cause that difference in performance is the respective device specific OS version. newer/more powerful devices get features (enabled), that others don't get, which in turn lowers the difference in IRL performance. for example, as can be seen in side-by-side comparisons, the N6P takes around 10s longer to boot up than the N5X out of the box, despite having superior hardware components, so there must be a reason for that.
with your N4vsN5X case and your mention of the RAM shortage, the first word that shot into my mind was 'zRAM'. afaik marshmallow finally includes this feature, but does the OS manage it intelligently and is it even enabled on the N4 at all?
I've been using the Nexus 5 as a developer test phone and the HTC M8 as my main phone, and now that the M8 is getting long in the tooth, I bought the HTC 10 a week ago, but the scroll stuttering and jitteriness and jankiness is far more apparent (even with transition animations).
Every SD 82x phone I tried in the stores had the same issues, though the LG G5, Moto Z, and Pixel were not as bad (in that order). Surprisingly the Galaxy S7 had the most jankiness.
Now that I have a Nexus 4, 5, M8, M9 (which I'm also testing), and 10 side-by-side, the smoothness is apparent in the 4, 5, M8, and M9, and the lag is apparent in the 10. I can't say it's just my specific phone because it's behaving exactly the same way I saw the demo models of it and the other SD 82x phones behave (minus the three better-performing ones I mentioned above).
Can someone explain this? I've tried everything I can think of to fix it, including clearing app/OS/Dalvik/etc cache, rebooting, wiping, etc... while I don't want to go back to an old phone, I'm just not impressed with the 82x phones and the Pixel is unavailable and the Moto Z & G5 may have too many inconvenient features for me (I'm on Verizon so I'm a bit limited on selection and I'm not sure a custom ROM overall makes my life easier).
Has anyone done any conclusive tests on this jankiness between the 80x/82x phones? I can make a video but it will take me awhile; I'd rather find an app to show the difference, or maybe I can record the screens through Android Studio though I haven't used it in a while.
I have the Z3 (SD801) and the 10 (SD820), i see exactly the opposite of what you are refering. Maybe a video can help to understand what are you refering.
dhinged said:
I've been using the Nexus 5 as a developer test phone and the HTC M8 as my main phone, and now that the M8 is getting long in the tooth, I bought the HTC 10 a week ago, but the scroll stuttering and jitteriness and jankiness is far more apparent (even with transition animations).
Every SD 82x phone I tried in the stores had the same issues, though the LG G5, Moto Z, and Pixel were not as bad (in that order). Surprisingly the Galaxy S7 had the most jankiness.
Now that I have a Nexus 4, 5, M8, M9 (which I'm also testing), and 10 side-by-side, the smoothness is apparent in the 4, 5, M8, and M9, and the lag is apparent in the 10. I can't say it's just my specific phone because it's behaving exactly the same way I saw the demo models of it and the other SD 82x phones behave (minus the three better-performing ones I mentioned above).
Can someone explain this? I've tried everything I can think of to fix it, including clearing app/OS/Dalvik/etc cache, rebooting, wiping, etc... while I don't want to go back to an old phone, I'm just not impressed with the 82x phones and the Pixel is unavailable and the Moto Z & G5 may have too many inconvenient features for me (I'm on Verizon so I'm a bit limited on selection and I'm not sure a custom ROM overall makes my life easier).
Has anyone done any conclusive tests on this jankiness between the 80x/82x phones? I can make a video but it will take me awhile; I'd rather find an app to show the difference, or maybe I can record the screens through Android Studio though I haven't used it in a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a verizon phone?
On my Verizon 10 I've used VZW marshmallow, U.S Unlocked marshmallow, and Unlocked Nougat software. VZW mm was definitely not as smooth as unlocked mm, and gets completely blown out of the water by unlocked nougat.
The 10 is one of the consistently smoothest android devices I've ever used. Sure there is the odd hiccup here and there, but nothing like what you're experiencing so I'm inclined to say it's software related.
My guess is that what you are seeing is described in this article, which also explains how to make the problem visible to everyone: https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.xda...vers-embarrassing-real-world-performance/amp/
Tarima said:
You have a verizon phone?
On my Verizon 10 I've used VZW marshmallow, U.S Unlocked marshmallow, and Unlocked Nougat software. VZW mm was definitely not as smooth as unlocked mm, and gets completely blown out of the water by unlocked nougat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting; I wonder what's going on under the hood of the VZW phones that we can't detect? I've already disabled as many VZW as I could when I got the phone, and when I look at CPU-Z or GeekBench, everything seems to look fine... is there some way to find out what's going on? Like which exact [system] apps are drawing more power or CPU or RAM? Maybe there's a tweak under the hood that's inefficient, or VZW is tracking more info than it should.
Tarima said:
The 10 is one of the consistently smoothest android devices I've ever used. Sure there is the odd hiccup here and there, but nothing like what you're experiencing so I'm inclined to say it's software related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus 5 is the smoothest Android phone I've ever used, very close to iPhone quality (at least before Steve Jobs died). I'm not sure how to verify that the HTC 10 is as smooth as you describe, I haven't found any videos that reflect that, though I haven't checked T-Mobile or AT&T or Spring stores.
What contradicts it being VZW is how smooth the LG G6 and Moto Z runs... the latter about Nexus 5 quality, the former almost that.
Cinner said:
My guess is that what you are seeing is described in this article, which also explains how to make the problem visible to everyone: https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.xda...vers-embarrassing-real-world-performance/amp/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried the GPU Profiler, which is interesting, but seems buggy on this phone, as it froze some bars on the screen whenever I activated it (EDIT: I discovered this was due to Twilight running), and Chrome completely obscures it for some reason (the #1 app I use that I'm having the jank with). One odd thing I noticed while scrolling was that the frame rate would be mostly fine in settings, but when it hit the end/beginning of the list and after my finger was off the screen and the animation stopped, a bunch of new red bars would spike after the screen was doing nothing... very strange it would try to redraw redundant screens for another second but do it terribly too.
It would be nice to figure out what apps/functions are causing the spikes. Let me know what else you've tried or I should try that probably won't break the phone.
So I'll go play with some phones, exchange this one for a Moto Z, and maybe run the profiler on some other comparable phones.
Not being dismissive but I do not have this issue and nor have I had on any HTC phone since the evo 3d which was pants.
The 10 is silky smooth..I do use the pixel launcher but even with the sense lts been fine.
Sent from my HTC 10 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Cinner said:
My guess is that what you are seeing is described in this article, which also explains how to make the problem visible to everyone: https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.xda...vers-embarrassing-real-world-performance/amp/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dladz said:
Not being dismissive but I do not have this issue and nor have I had on any HTC phone since the evo 3d which was pants.
The 10 is silky smooth..I do use the pixel launcher but even with the sense lts been fine.
Sent from my HTC 10 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed a surprising number of people don't notice jank (or frame rate issues) until they're pointed out, however I can't not notice them (and they're on every Android phone to varying degrees) as I expect the scrolling to behave consistently and when it's not it can drive me nuts because my eye or thumb go where the screen is expected to scroll to but then the content inconsistently goes there.
The easiest way to tell if your HTC 10 has jank is to go into Developer Options > Advanced, and enable "Profile GPU rendering", and if you're seeing a lot of vertical bars going above the horizontal bar (especially inconsistently or in huge blocks), that's where your jank is and will annoy most people; you can at least use that as an eye test for how well you notice jank (and I wish I didn't notice it).
Example: http://imgur.com/a/CzdOE
Testing the Nexus 5, Nexus 4, and Blackberry Priv (at Verizon), the Nexus 5 is *actually* buttery-smooth like 90+% of the time, the Nexus 4 has a lower average framerate but is still more smooth than any other Verizon phone I've owned, and the Priv hands down was the smoothest (with the highest consistent frame rate) even as shown by the GPU profiling bars (strange because it has a Snapdragon 808 and QHD), so I can't explain why some phones are better than others nor why the older processors seem to run better overall (an exception being the LG V20 at Sprint that ran beautifully with hardly any jank, though I didn't profile it).
What I'd like to know now is not which phones run better or not but what exactly is causing the jank; I've read that the profiler shows sub-60fps when a function takes longer than 16ms to process, so I'd like to know which functions in which classes in which apps are doing this, and I highly suspect Verizon (or maybe even Qualcomm) are inserting their own functions in what they considered their top flagships at the time to track usage or try to optimize performance their own way with the unintended (and apparently un-noticed) effect of reducing performance. There could be some issues with Qualcomm though I believe that's less likely.
If anyone knows how to capture these functions, please let me know, as I'll be looking into whether I can see Verizon's source code differences to see if they're doing what I think they're doing (otherwise there's something about their network CDMA/EVDO/LTE software and/or SIM card that's slowing things down).
Now that I have a HTC 10 in my possession (I did not when I previously replied to this topic), I must admit the jank you are seeing, to which I consider myself sensitive as well, is not there. I have it side by side with my Nexus 6 (which is very smooth) and the 10 is not any more 'janky' in places the Nexus is as well. I do have the international model without any carrier modifications, that will probably be in my favor as you mention. So overall, when it comes to performance of the UI and apps, I'm pleased. The Galaxy S7 Edge (exynos chipset) I have is so much worse, but on that device I do notice a positive difference when I start to tweak the kernel settings (change the governor and other such settings you should not have to worry about if the manufacturer did its job properly).
My problem with the HTC 10 is described in this thread, it regards a display refresh rate which I consider too low on the 10. Maybe you notice this as well?
dhinged said:
I've noticed a surprising number of people don't notice jank (or frame rate issues) until they're pointed out, however I can't not notice them (and they're on every Android phone to varying degrees) as I expect the scrolling to behave consistently and when it's not it can drive me nuts because my eye or thumb go where the screen is expected to scroll to but then the content inconsistently goes there.
The easiest way to tell if your HTC 10 has jank is to go into Developer Options > Advanced, and enable "Profile GPU rendering", and if you're seeing a lot of vertical bars going above the horizontal bar (especially inconsistently or in huge blocks), that's where your jank is and will annoy most people; you can at least use that as an eye test for how well you notice jank (and I wish I didn't notice it).
Example: http://imgur.com/a/CzdOE
Testing the Nexus 5, Nexus 4, and Blackberry Priv (at Verizon), the Nexus 5 is *actually* buttery-smooth like 90+% of the time, the Nexus 4 has a lower average framerate but is still more smooth than any other Verizon phone I've owned, and the Priv hands down was the smoothest (with the highest consistent frame rate) even as shown by the GPU profiling bars (strange because it has a Snapdragon 808 and QHD), so I can't explain why some phones are better than others nor why the older processors seem to run better overall (an exception being the LG V20 at Sprint that ran beautifully with hardly any jank, though I didn't profile it).
What I'd like to know now is not which phones run better or not but what exactly is causing the jank; I've read that the profiler shows sub-60fps when a function takes longer than 16ms to process, so I'd like to know which functions in which classes in which apps are doing this, and I highly suspect Verizon (or maybe even Qualcomm) are inserting their own functions in what they considered their top flagships at the time to track usage or try to optimize performance their own way with the unintended (and apparently un-noticed) effect of reducing performance. There could be some issues with Qualcomm though I believe that's less likely.
If anyone knows how to capture these functions, please let me know, as I'll be looking into whether I can see Verizon's source code differences to see if they're doing what I think they're doing (otherwise there's something about their network CDMA/EVDO/LTE software and/or SIM card that's slowing things down).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm an avid overclocker on PC and a seasoned gamer, I tweak my system to get every single bit out of it, I can notice xfire jitter when most can't and can see drops in performance visually when usually a benchmarking tool is required, I'm not lying to you or trying to sound like you're going mental, there is obviously a problem present, I just don't have it.
Perhaps try my set up.
Vipers latest rom and the pixel launcher straight from Team Blackouts library, I have a very minimalistic phone with very little running so perhaps that too is a factor, I'm talking to social networking besides whatsapp and snapchat and they're disabled from startup until opened.
There could be many variables to take into consideration, a powersaver on the device could be the problem or simply heavy app load even from system and normal apps with no user interaction, it's a very subjective problem and seeing as others don't have it? I'd say it's not the device it's management of the system.
A clean install and a reboot, then allowed to settle with stock kernel would suffice to test to see if there is an issue with scrolling and jitter. I think until that's been done the debate will continue.
PS: Again not being funny or dismissive just my opinion.
dladz said:
I'm an avid overclocker on PC and a seasoned gamer, I tweak my system to get every single bit out of it, I can notice xfire jitter when most can't and can see drops in performance visually when usually a benchmarking tool is required, I'm not lying to you or trying to sound like you're going mental, there is obviously a problem present, I just don't have it.
Perhaps try my set up.
Vipers latest rom and the pixel launcher straight from Team Blackouts library, I have a very minimalistic phone with very little running so perhaps that too is a factor, I'm talking to social networking besides whatsapp and snapchat and they're disabled from startup until opened.
There could be many variables to take into consideration, a powersaver on the device could be the problem or simply heavy app load even from system and normal apps with no user interaction, it's a very subjective problem and seeing as others don't have it? I'd say it's not the device it's management of the system.
A clean install and a reboot, then allowed to settle with stock kernel would suffice to test to see if there is an issue with scrolling and jitter. I think until that's been done the debate will continue.
PS: Again not being funny or dismissive just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon locks the bootloader so it's a calculated risk for me to root my phone... not sure it's worth it. A different/stock ROM may cause the phone to perform as well as any other, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
I'm not sure if you've run the GPU Profiler, but that's an assured way to compare with other phones how the frame-rate consistency is.
Cinner said:
Now that I have a HTC 10 in my possession (I did not when I previously replied to this topic), I must admit the jank you are seeing, to which I consider myself sensitive as well, is not there. I have it side by side with my Nexus 6 (which is very smooth) and the 10 is not any more 'janky' in places the Nexus is as well. I do have the international model without any carrier modifications, that will probably be in my favor as you mention. So overall, when it comes to performance of the UI and apps, I'm pleased. The Galaxy S7 Edge (exynos chipset) I have is so much worse, but on that device I do notice a positive difference when I start to tweak the kernel settings (change the governor and other such settings you should not have to worry about if the manufacturer did its job properly).
My problem with the HTC 10 is described in this thread, it regards a display refresh rate which I consider too low on the 10. Maybe you notice this as well?
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Did you compare them with the GPU Profiler in Developer Options? That's an assured way to eliminate any biases or subconscious filtering. You can even record video if you want; I would be curious to see the results.
Ultimately I would like to know how I could find out which function(s) are causing the frame rate to drop below 60 so consistently on these phones.
I can't tell if the issue you're describing in that thread is the same; the issue I'm describing is primarily smoothness, which isn't just frame rate or "refresh rate" whatever that is exactly, but consistency of frame rate (~30fps consistently would be completely fine with me). The jankiness is marked by stuttering, jitteryness, and laggyness, and is shown in the Profiler by a lot of chunky bars jumping up above the line inconsistently.
Here's two screenshots. First is the HTC 10 (Maximus rom, no further customization), other is a completely stock Nexus 6 on Android 7.1.1. The app on the screenshot is lightning browser, the website is androidpolice.com. The Nexus is a little smoother but not by much. It has some large spikes sometimes as well, just like the HTC 10. Both are much better than a Galaxy S7 Edge (Exynos). In terms of jank I rate them Nexus 6 (least jank) - HTC 10 - S7 (most jank).